woodpecker

Captain Licence Course

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Confident Captains in Newport RI just started offering the course online recently.  I know a few people have gone there for this course and they thought it was beneficial.  Ive done other training there and found them to be knowledgeable and the coursework to be in depth and interesting.  Bonus-  online is ~$500 including course materials.

http://confidentcaptain.com/online-captains-courses/

 

 

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All RYA theory courses are offered on-line. These have the advantage of being internationally recognised. PM me if you would like more information. 

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I had a 100 ton USCG ticket that expired in '95, when I was too busy doing other stuff and raising kids to realize it went away.  I understand it's a real PITA, if not impossible to redo it now, especially at an older age.  Someone said you need a medical cert like a private pilots ticket, and need a TWICS (?) card from TSA, and have to undergo random drug testing?  Anyone confirm, deny or clarify any of this?  Thanks in advance.

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28 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I had a 100 ton USCG ticket that expired in '95, when I was too busy doing other stuff and raising kids to realize it went away.  I understand it's a real PITA, if not impossible to redo it now, especially at an older age.  S

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:50 PM, woodpecker said:

Anyone recommend a good place to take a captains' licence course? 

Can you do it online?

 

omeone said you need a medical cert like a private pilots ticket, and need a TWICS (?) card from TSA, and have to undergo random drug testing?  Anyone confirm, deny or clarify any of this?  Thanks in advance.

 

28 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I don't think you have to get the TWIC in order to sit for the license, just proof of citizenship.  But you may need one to work under the license, as owners may require it.

All the medical standards are here:  https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/forms/NVIC_04-08.pdf    It's a lot of stuff,  I would recommend TWO appointments with your doc--first one to do the physical, second one to fill out the 7-page medical report you will send back in with your application.  And based on your successful physical (along with any age-related waivers, such as hearing and corrected eyeglasses in my case) they do send you a little business-card-size Medical Certificate, that you stick in the little pocket at the back of your license booklet.  it does look like the pilot form, except for pilots it expires in a year--for me/us, five years (though it may have been shortened to 3 years recently?).

Hope this helps.  Year after next, I have to renew.  So then you can update me as to what was required, after you get yours.  Best wishes on this, amigo, you can do it.

 

28 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

 

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NOLATOM,  Thanks for the info, it's much appreciated!  Not sure if I am actually going to do this, just gathering info at this point.  A license is not needed for one part time launch job that I may be interested in, but not for another 3 years, when I can retire from my present regular day job at Pratt & Whitney Aircraft.  I have delivered boats on and off over the years without a license, sometimes as PIC, sometimes as Mate.  As I get closer to ditching the regular day job, I may get more serious about this.  Also, I need to speak with a friend who just went through this, so he and his wife can legally charter a, new to them, Catamaran that they are now living and traveling on, in their retirement.  They're in Florida for now, but planning on wintering & chartering in the Bahamas.  That's not in the cards for us, unless I can figure out a way to manage rental Condos in CT from afar.

Cheers, Mate!

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To apply for the uscg license 

You need:

Physical form-signed by doc

Current twic card- $

Certificate of being in random drug test group ,$

Sea service forms filled out/signed

360/or 720 days...

Certificate of passing uscg tests

Current first aid and CPR card

Uscg application and fees$

That's all....

And submit all in correct order to correct cg agency

 

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I have just done my 5 year medical for commercial endorsement. ECG, hearing, eyesight and blood tests and a full skin check. Happily no testing of ones mental capacity. I think it is given that you need to be slightly mad to work in the marine industry.

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Deliveries are not "carriage of passengers for hire" (or carriage of freight for hire), so a CG license not needed for that.   Once you have one paying passenger on federal waters, then you need a license, at least the "6-pack".  And if you carry more than six such pax, then the vessel itself needs a Certificate of Inspection, and you need the next level of license, typically 25-tons (or more if you have the tonnage) near-coastal, for inspected vessels (plus an endorsement for auxiliary sail).  

You might as well get the TWIC, it's not that pricey and I've found it helps--sometimes--at airports since the TSA types all have the same card.   And at our (meaning my) age, a good physical exam is not necessarily a bad thing--the hearing test convinced me to get my first hearing aid (good ones are fairly cheap these days, about $400, but that's another thread).  The license-prep schools know all this, many of them are prior Coast Guard licensing-branch types.  I have never used one, so what I say here is not exactly from the burning bush, just what has worked for me every five years, over the years.

And LB has a point, we are all a bit "off" mentally if we choose to be captains, and to go through the hoops it takes to get the ticket..

 

PS:   I vaguely recall you can carry passengers for hire on a sail-only boat, no engine, up to about 300 tons as I recall, without a license.   Hence the typical summer sailing camp or program where  the unlicensed college kids who grew up in those camps, can teach legally.  But add that 2-hp electric outboard??--License required.  Weird wrinkle, but there you have it.

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I started logging all my sea time at some point, but then I found out that I see the wrong number in those books of pastel-colored dots. :huh:

Well at least I found out before spending any money...

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Red/Green color blindness is the real hurdle for a Captains license.

Nola, you might want to check that 'pure sail' loophole. The daysail charter trimarans out of Christenstead St Croix used to use that but a good friend and probably the best natural born sailor I ever knew got busted on that after about 30 years of plying the Buck Island trade. 

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On 8/14/2018 at 10:18 AM, LB 15 said:

I think it is given that you need to be slightly mad to work in the marine industry.

Not necessarily, but you are an example of where it is the case.

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Just now, random said:

Not necessarily, but you are an example of where it is the case.

True but I don’t think GWB ordered 911 so there is still hope for me.

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

True but I don’t think GWB ordered 911 so there is still hope for me.

GWB was just doing what he was told. 

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Two stories about captains license courses,

 
About 25 years ago in New London, Ct, the local CG commander let it be known that he would be enforcing the requirement that launch service at local yacht clubs and marinas be in inspected vessels and that said vessels required at least a launch operators license. My club organized a launch operators course. About 40 people attended. the course was 1 night a week for 5 weeks. Had to lay on a bus to take the group to New York to sit for the test. Nobody passed. Embarrassed, the teacher taught the course again for free. Maybe 35 attended. The CG moved the testing venue up to New Haven. 3 passed. I was one of them.
 
Fast forward 10 years.
 
I took the captains license course at Sea School in Ft Lauderdale.  Intense course, 5 days, 4 hours a day, with the test given on Saturday at Sea School.  The test was tricky. Most questions were straight forward but a lot were there to trick you, things you would never encounter in real life. Like what is the lighting configuration for a mine sweeper when working.  The course covered all the trick questions as well as the straight forward ones.  I passed with 98%. The six-pack test is no easier then the captains test. The same test is given for all levels of license. The test was pretty much the same as the launch operators test I took 10 years  previous.
 
If you take an on line course spread over several months by the time you take the test you will have forgotten some of it . You will also need to travel to some regional CG headquarters to take the test. Better  to find a place like Sea School where the course is short but intense and the test is given in house.
 

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The tricky part is making sure you will get your sea time for the renewal.  Without it you will have to retest.  You are required to do 350 days ( yes the Coast Guard calls this one year) in a five year period.  If you break it down, that is 70 days a year on the water consisting of four hour days.  Down south it might work, but in the north east, you are either working for somebody like SeaTow or a charter captain on the weekends or are might motivated to be on the water

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Chicago Maritime Academy is well operated, simple, testing and studying guides included with class an organization.

Highly recommend it for 50GT USCG approved.  

Renewals require 360 sea days for a 5 yr period or an 8 hour 250.00 course.  

 

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4 hours ago, sailorman44 said:

 

Two stories about captains license courses,

 
About 25 years ago in New London, Ct, the local CG commander let it be known that he would be enforcing the requirement that launch service at local yacht clubs and marinas be in inspected vessels and that said vessels required at least a launch operators license. My club organized a launch operators course. About 40 people attended. the course was 1 night a week for 5 weeks. Had to lay on a bus to take the group to New York to sit for the test. Nobody passed. Embarrassed, the teacher taught the course again for free. Maybe 35 attended. The CG moved the testing venue up to New Haven. 3 passed. I was one of them.
 
Fast forward 10 years.
 
I took the captains license course at Sea School in Ft Lauderdale.  Intense course, 5 days, 4 hours a day, with the test given on Saturday at Sea School.  The test was tricky. Most questions were straight forward but a lot were there to trick you, things you would never encounter in real life. Like what is the lighting configuration for a mine sweeper when working.  The course covered all the trick questions as well as the straight forward ones.  I passed with 98%. The six-pack test is no easier then the captains test. The same test is given for all levels of license. The test was pretty much the same as the launch operators test I took 10 years  previous.
 
If you take an on line course spread over several months by the time you take the test you will have forgotten some of it . You will also need to travel to some regional CG headquarters to take the test. Better  to find a place like Sea School where the course is short but intense and the test is given in house.
 

 

I took the course at that Sea School around 1982; and they taught us to pass the test.  Warned us about trick questions like, "Why is your port running light green, the bulb or the lens"?**  Stuff like that.  When someone asked an irrelevant question, the instructor said, "That's not on the test.  Just pass the test, and continue running boats in the safe manner you have already been doing for years!"  LOL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

** your port running light is Red you dummy, not green!

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3 hours ago, PirateDave said:

The tricky part is making sure you will get your sea time for the renewal.  Without it you will have to retest.  You are required to do 350 days ( yes the Coast Guard calls this one year) in a five year period.  If you break it down, that is 70 days a year on the water consisting of four hour days.  Down south it might work, but in the north east, you are either working for somebody like SeaTow or a charter captain on the weekends or are might motivated to be on the water

My father has a sizeable boat babysitting service out of Naples and he'd encouraged me to get my Captain's license so that I could come down and take it over when he was ready to more fully retire. I started looking into what it would take and realized that there would be no way as a weekend sailor that I could amass enough days on the water during racing season to accumulate my hours/days. I think I could not skip a single weekend day or midweek event, and that was just never going to happen. 

By the time my career got to the point where I could get enough hours he'd be quite a few years beyond retirement. So I let it drop. Maybe someday I'll do it as part of my retirement part-time job, like he did. But for now I think you need to have a job near/on the water to get enough hours in. 

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21 hours ago, toddster said:

I found out that I see the wrong number in those books of pastel-colored dots.

If you can see red and green but struggle with the dot tests you may be able to pass a different test.

I don't know how it is now but when I took the test it was clearly set-up to make it hard to pass without taking a course. The wording of some questions and the plotting exercise were set-up to trip competent folk who lacked inside knowledge of the test. We saw all of the problems that were on the test but, amazingly, only studied a small subset of the question pool. Everyone passed. I was no more competent a mariner at the end of the course than when I started but I would have struggled to pass the test without the course.

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1 hour ago, weightless said:

If you can see red and green but struggle with the dot tests you may be able to pass a different test.

 

I didn't know I had a problem, but it turns out I'm a little iffy on telling a green light from a white light farther away than a mile or two.

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3 minutes ago, toddster said:

I didn't know I had a problem, but it turns out I'm a little iffy on telling a green light from a white light farther away than a couple of miles.

It is important to be able to identify lights. I think the books with dots can identify deficiencies that are finer than that. I'm not sure what the current requirements are but it used to be that the examiner could use a practical color test. Might be worth inquiring if you think your color sight is adequate.

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Maybe - something called a "lantern test" IIRC.  But the point is, it's one of those limiting things to check before even putting any effort into classes or anything else.  And the web sites don't even mention it.  

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5 minutes ago, toddster said:

 ... the point is, it's one of those limiting things to check before even putting any effort into classes...

Fee advise and all, but if you want to do this and you have a class in mind I'd call up the folks who run the class, explain the situation and ask them for guidance.

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   I somehow managed to appeal one of the so called 'trick questions' on the sail addendum CG test. Can't remember exactly what it was buy something about a club footed jib and was obviously written by someone who had never really sailed. Just something they got out of an old archaic textbook. I was told to not even bother contesting the stupid question as I passed the test but that attitude is how that sort of crap becomes gospel and screws people up way down the line. 

Good old Ishihara!

Image result for red green colorblind test

Someone posted this eye test on the Joke thread a couple of days ago, thought it might be appropriate here!

5c6281d163f140188497b253dd09f575.jpg

I'd love to slip that up on the wall in the Captains Test room...

 

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Getting a license really isn't that hard, especially if you're just after a small (<100t) or OUPV (6 pack.)  Size of license at that level is depicted by your sea time.  It would really help to know where you are but, at least east coast i'd say MPT in Lauderdale, Downeast in South Carolina, Chesapeake Marine Training or Mid Atlantic Maritime in Virginia, or downeast maritime in Maine.  There are, as others mentioned, places you can do it online, but I don't think they administer the tests...i think you still have to go to the REC if you take it online. I may have that wrong, I didn't take it online. 

The advantage to in person is you're almost guaranteed to pass unless you're a complete idiot and/or can't tell your ass from your elbow on a chart, which is where most people fail.  That and the rules of the road.  Easiest way to pass rules...there's an app on android called Rules of the Road lite...download/install and whip it out every time you are dropping the kids off at the pool...you'll know your rules perfectly inside of two weeks.  Cheapest way to do it is still to self study and go take it at REC. 

Twic is no longer required unless you are working in a secure facility.  Medical is really not that big of a deal...it's good for 5 years except for international and pilotage which is only good for two.  Google maritime consortium to join a group of drug testees. 

You can submit entire application via email these days...don't worry about getting it perfect.  The coastie on the other end is going to defer it for "more information required" regardless of how much time you put in or how perfect you think it is, and most of the time you will end up arguing with an examiner over requirements that don't actually exist. 

If you go to the NMC (national maritime center) website and google checklists, they have a need and tidy organizer at each license level that shows the requirements.  IF you are staying domestic, then you want the national checklists, as the STCW shit stacks up very quickly.  Also important to note that you do not need stcw in Canoodia or Mexico, so really why bother? 

RYA is only really more relevant when you are working on yachts with douchebag passengers so, if that's your game, there's an RYA school in Newport IIRC.  Internationally, US licenses are not sought after, but that has to do with the higher cost of American Mariners, not the licensing itself, although we are a couple decades behind on promises we made to the IMO to get our shit together.  Truth be told, if McCane doesn't die before he finally repeals the Jones Act, there will no longer be an American Merchant Marine.

 

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Another fun fact...save everyfuckingthing.  The coast guard will be collecting a file on you, but they refuse to open it.  Every upgrade, every renewal, every issue...you will have to resubmit all the same certificates, seatime letters, and records that you already submitted the last 10 times.  Oh and if you call the REC and don't like the answer they give you, hang up and call back for a different one. :blink:

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14 hours ago, H3LlIoN said:

Getting a license really isn't that hard, especially if you're just after a small (<100t) or OUPV (6 pack.)  Size of license at that level is depicted by your sea time.  It would really help to know where you are but, at least east coast i'd say MPT in Lauderdale, Downeast in South Carolina, Chesapeake Marine Training or Mid Atlantic Maritime in Virginia, or downeast maritime in Maine.  There are, as others mentioned, places you can do it online, but I don't think they administer the tests...i think you still have to go to the REC if you take it online. I may have that wrong, I didn't take it online. 

The advantage to in person is you're almost guaranteed to pass unless you're a complete idiot and/or can't tell your ass from your elbow on a chart, which is where most people fail.  That and the rules of the road.  Easiest way to pass rules...there's an app on android called Rules of the Road lite...download/install and whip it out every time you are dropping the kids off at the pool...you'll know your rules perfectly inside of two weeks.  Cheapest way to do it is still to self study and go take it at REC. 

Twic is no longer required unless you are working in a secure facility.  Medical is really not that big of a deal...it's good for 5 years except for international and pilotage which is only good for two.  Google maritime consortium to join a group of drug testees. 

You can submit entire application via email these days...don't worry about getting it perfect.  The coastie on the other end is going to defer it for "more information required" regardless of how much time you put in or how perfect you think it is, and most of the time you will end up arguing with an examiner over requirements that don't actually exist. 

If you go to the NMC (national maritime center) website and google checklists, they have a need and tidy organizer at each license level that shows the requirements.  IF you are staying domestic, then you want the national checklists, as the STCW shit stacks up very quickly.  Also important to note that you do not need stcw in Canoodia or Mexico, so really why bother? 

RYA is only really more relevant when you are working on yachts with douchebag passengers so, if that's your game, there's an RYA school in Newport IIRC.  Internationally, US licenses are not sought after, but that has to do with the higher cost of American Mariners, not the licensing itself, although we are a couple decades behind on promises we made to the IMO to get our shit together.  Truth be told, if McCane doesn't die before he finally repeals the Jones Act, there will no longer be an American Merchant Marine.

 

According to the USCG checklist, TWIC is still required.  The TWIC isn't that big a deal to get, if you are in a relatively large Metro area.

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they must still be requiring it for new licenses then, but not required after, although a lot of companies are still requiring it.  it's pretty easy to get...you go to the outside contractor and they take a photo and some fingerprints then off it goes to the TSA.  Nowadays they mail them to you.  I just renewed mine last Monday and it arrived in the mail this monday.  Not sure if it's as fast for a new one or not.

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18 hours ago, H3LlIoN said:

Getting a license really isn't that hard...

RYA is only really more relevant when you are working on yachts with douchebag passengers so, if that's your game, there's an RYA school in Newport IIRC.  Internationally, US licenses are not sought after, but that has to do with the higher cost of American Mariners, not the licensing itself...

Assuming you have the actual skills already, getting a USCG license from 0-six pack takes ages; meanwhile a RYA YM can be held within a week. 

USCG licenses are not sought after internationally because of all the extra nonsense and hoops required. It also costs a bit more all said and done.  Plus re-certifciation every couple years is a pain in the dick. YM is for life. 

 

Go to the a cool location anywhere in the world and get your RYA. 

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Nah.  Doesn't take ages.  Takes 360 days of sea service and an 11 day class.  Also the 'extra nonsense' bit is laughable at best....coasties hardly require anything compared to stcw reqs.

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Wait a little bit until marijuana is off the idiotic list that Nixon made because he was teased at high school for being a douche bag.

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2 hours ago, carcrash said:

Wait a little bit until marijuana is off the idiotic list that Nixon made because he was teased at high school for being a douche bag.

Man what a legal mess that's going to be getting that all sorted out.  It is important to note that fed law still says no, so regardless of state laws, don't get caught by the coasties or any other federal agency having too much fun aboard.  Also of mention is that they just went up from like a 4 panel to a 7 panel screening, at least in my consortium, to add opiates, heroin, and some prescrip pills.  I'm not sure if that was nationwide or just my consort though.

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On 8/15/2018 at 8:11 AM, sailorman44 said:

 

Two stories about captains license courses,

 
About 25 years ago in New London, Ct, the local CG commander let it be known that he would be enforcing the requirement that launch service at local yacht clubs and marinas be in inspected vessels and that said vessels required at least a launch operators license. My club organized a launch operators course. About 40 people attended. the course was 1 night a week for 5 weeks. Had to lay on a bus to take the group to New York to sit for the test. Nobody passed. Embarrassed, the teacher taught the course again for free. Maybe 35 attended. The CG moved the testing venue up to New Haven. 3 passed. I was one of them.... [snipped]
 

Always wondered this: how does a club launch driver not require a 6-pack or <100 license?  I mean, I get that it seems overkill for running people around a small harbor to their mooring, and judging by the ages of some of these launch drivers, there's no way they have a 6 pack license, but they're hauling more than 6 people who are paying passengers...

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On 8/16/2018 at 10:06 AM, H3LlIoN said:

 

RYA is only really more relevant when you are working on yachts with douchebag passengers so, if that's your game, there's an RYA school in Newport IIRC.  Internationally, US licenses are not sought after, but that has to do with the higher cost of American Mariners, not the licensing itself, 

WTF? It has everything to do with the licensing. The rest of the world pisses themselves laughing at a system that thinks the number of passengers is somehow related to the competency to operate that vessel or where everyone who skippers anything calls themselves a 'Captain'.  I am pleased to note that you agree that my RYA qualifications would allow me to have you as a passenger. American exceptionalism is alive and well in your navy however, particularly in regards to collision avoidance.

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On 8/17/2018 at 4:37 AM, bodega87 said:

Assuming you have the actual skills already, getting a USCG license from 0-six pack takes ages; meanwhile a RYA YM can be held within a week. 

What utter bullshit. Getting a zero to commercially endorsed RYA Yachtmaster takes a minimum of 85 hours classroom or online study + exams, 4 x 5 day live aboard courses, + first aid, sea survival, radio operators and Professional practices and responsibility courses, a medical and accumulating 2500 miles off which half is offshore and includes 5 x passages of over 60 miles of which the candidate was skipper on two.

Once this has all been completed the candidate can then sit a 12 hour practical exam at sea. We do however allow 'recognition of prior learning' because at the end of the day the final exam takes place on a boat, at sea in the real world where you can't hide. The schools that offer 'fast track' (zero to hero) do it as a full time 16 week course. So if you don't have the equivalent knowledge and experience you don't have a snowflakes chance in hell of passing. An RYA Yachtmaster can be used globally to skipper vessels to 2 hundred tons/24 meters. A 6 pack ain't worth jack shit outside of the Divided states of America.

I think what you are talking about is an IYT Yachtmaster which those clowns basically give out over the phone and is laughed at by most employers and insurance companies.

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11 hours ago, LB 15 said:

What utter bullshit. Getting a zero to commercially endorsed RYA Yachtmaster

Read what he said before calling BS.

 

On 8/16/2018 at 1:37 PM, bodega87 said:

Assuming you have the actual skills already, getting a USCG license from 0-six pack takes ages; meanwhile a RYA YM can be held within a week. 

 

I don't know if this is true, but if you are going to refute his comment, at least read the comment and refute what he said. Which was not 'zero to....' and also was not commercially endorsed.

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Posted 21 hours ago

  On 8/15/2018 at 8:11 AM, sailorman44 said:

 

Two stories about captains license courses,

 

About 25 years ago in New London, Ct, the local CG commander let it be known that he would be enforcing the requirement that launch service at local yacht clubs and marinas be in inspected vessels and that said vessels required at least a launch operators license. My club organized a launch operators course. About 40 people attended. the course was 1 night a week for 5 weeks. Had to lay on a bus to take the group to New York to sit for the test. Nobody passed. Embarrassed, the teacher taught the course again for free. Maybe 35 attended. The CG moved the testing venue up to New Haven. 3 passed. I was one of them.... [snipped]

 

Always wondered this: how does a club launch driver not require a 6-pack or <100 license?  I mean, I get that it seems overkill for running people around a small harbor to their mooring, and judging by the ages of some of these launch drivers, there's no way they have a 6 pack license, but they're hauling more than 6 people who are paying passengers...

ribber,

It was 25 years ago and we were under the radar. The college student sons and daughters of members were the launch operators. It gave the kids a summer job and the club cheap labor. It IS overkill to require a licensed operator for a launch that never goes more than a quarter mile.These were kids that had grown up on the water, been thru the club junior program, raced dinghys and with their families and other club members, Much like the Mudrarz who won their class in the  the Bermuda race. They were competent. Now we have 4 licensed captains and the cost to the club went from a few thousand to $15 - 20 thousand. A  big hit for a small club. Some marinas in the area just pulled their moorings or did not provide launch service: use your own dinghy.  Other clubs got around it by not providing formal launch service; they have a couple of whalers for the use of club members. If you need to go out to your moored boat another member will jump into HIS whaler and take you out.  

This all started when the cub got a brand new launch and one asshole member insisted that it had t be an inspected vessel. Now we were on the radar.

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I did the 80hr USCG 100T Masters course at seattle maritime training academy. Great program. 

You still have to prove sea time and recency on appropriate sizes vessels. 

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5 hours ago, sailorman44 said:

  On 8/15/2018 at 8:11 AM, sailorman44 said:

 

Two stories about captains license courses,

 

About 25 years ago in New London, Ct, the local CG commander let it be known that he would be enforcing the requirement that launch service at local yacht clubs and marinas be in inspected vessels and that said vessels required at least a launch operators license. My club organized a launch operators course. About 40 people attended. the course was 1 night a week for 5 weeks. Had to lay on a bus to take the group to New York to sit for the test. Nobody passed. Embarrassed, the teacher taught the course again for free. Maybe 35 attended. The CG moved the testing venue up to New Haven. 3 passed. I was one of them.... [snipped]

 

Always wondered this: how does a club launch driver not require a 6-pack or <100 license?  I mean, I get that it seems overkill for running people around a small harbor to their mooring, and judging by the ages of some of these launch drivers, there's no way they have a 6 pack license, but they're hauling more than 6 people who are paying passengers...

ribber,

It was 25 years ago and we were under the radar. The college student sons and daughters of members were the launch operators. It gave the kids a summer job and the club cheap labor. It IS overkill to require a licensed operator for a launch that never goes more than a quarter mile.These were kids that had grown up on the water, been thru the club junior program, raced dinghys and with their families and other club members, Much like the Mudrarz who won their class in the  the Bermuda race. They were competent. Now we have 4 licensed captains and the cost to the club went from a few thousand to $15 - 20 thousand. A  big hit for a small club. Some marinas in the area just pulled their moorings or did not provide launch service: use your own dinghy.  Other clubs got around it by not providing formal launch service; they have a couple of whalers for the use of club members. If you need to go out to your moored boat another member will jump into HIS whaler and take you out.  

This all started when the cub got a brand new launch and one asshole member insisted that it had t be an inspected vessel. Now we were on the radar.

no no, I get that launch drivers shouldn't have to, from a practical standpoint.  What I don't get is that there are a lot of them, employed by a lot of clubs that are pretty risk-averse who wouldn't do that unless there is a legit way around it.  I just don't see what the way around it is, and wondering if anyone knows what the legit way around it is.

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6 hours ago, JohnMB said:

Read what he said before calling BS.

 

I don't know if this is true, but if you are going to refute his comment, at least read the comment and refute what he said. Which was not 'zero to....' and also was not commercially endorsed.

‘0–6 pack’ ?  A yachtmaster is a recreational qualification that can be endorsed for commercial use. A 6 pack is a entry level commercial qualification. If you read his comments before blowing your load you will see it is about pathways to be a ‘Captain’ (snigger snigger) - paid master. I am an RYA Yachtmaster examiner and what he said is complete bullshit and attempts to belittle the Qualification. Even comparing it to a 6 pack is a joke. 

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5 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

‘0–6 pack’ ?  A yachtmaster is a recreational qualification that can be endorsed for commercial use. A 6 pack is a entry level commercial qualification. If you read his comments before blowing your load you will see it is about pathways to be a ‘Captain’ (snigger snigger) - paid master. I am an RYA Yachtmaster examiner and what he said is complete bullshit and attempts to belittle the Qualification. Even comparing it to a 6 pack is a joke. 

Ok you really didn't read what he said did you?

He was recommending the RYA qualification, I don't see anything in his comment that belittles it. His comments far from endorsing the USCG route recommend against it.

You even say:

17 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Once this has all been completed the candidate can then sit a 12 hour practical exam at sea. We do however allow 'recognition of prior learning' because at the end of the day the final exam takes place on a boat, at sea in the real world where you can't hide.

Which seems to go along with his comments that its possible to get to a YM qualification in a week (if you have the right starting experience.) I'm still not sure how true this is, but I was taking your word for it.

I understand that you are a totally wonderful person who never makes mistakes,  ( I know you are a RYA examiner, it reminds me of a ski-town joke:

Q:If you meet some random person in a bar how can you tell if they are a ski instructor?

A:They'll tell you :).

You have never been shy about your role as a RYA examiner :).

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnMB said:

Ok you really didn't read what he said did you?

He was recommending the RYA qualification, I don't see anything in his comment that belittles it. His comments far from endorsing the USCG route recommend against it.

You even say:

Which seems to go along with his comments that its possible to get to a YM qualification in a week (if you have the right starting experience.) I'm still not sure how true this is, but I was taking your word for it.

I understand that you are a totally wonderful person who never makes mistakes,  ( I know you are a RYA examiner, it reminds me of a ski-town joke:

Q:If you meet some random person in a bar how can you tell if they are a ski instructor?

A:They'll tell you :).

You have never been shy about your role as a RYA examiner :).

 

 

 

He wrote 0-6 pack takes a forever but you can get a yachtmaster in a week. You see when I see people talking shit about the RYA I explain to them that I am speaking from a base of knowledge. Your little ski instructor barb and other comments show that you simply have a problem with me not the topic.if you have expreince with both then by all means offer your opinion. But if you are simply interpreting another persons posts to vent your dislike of me you should STFU but I am happy for you to go hard cup cake. In case you hadn’t noticed I enjoy some back and forth with dickwits like you. Now it’s your turn to try. 

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1 hour ago, JohnMB said:

Ok you really didn't read what he said did you?

He was recommending the RYA qualification, I don't see anything in his comment that belittles it. His comments far from endorsing the USCG route recommend against it.

You even say:

Endorsing it or not, it is still incorrect and a big issue for all RYA schools and examiners (and probobly ski instructors) 

we regualrly get the ‘enormous people’  showing up telling us how experienced they are and expecting us to just write them out a ticket. When we explain that they will be examined to a Syllabus and turn over some stones about their knowledge they often get all angry and start telling me how subjects like stability and the IRPCS are ‘all bullshit’ and they don’t need to know them as they have sailed all their lives. Quoting a long list of races they have won is often popular. They (and you) just don’t get it. No one without prior training or study can pass a Yachtmaster exam. There will be gaps in their knowlage and experiences that mean they can’t demonstrate the syllabus. That isn’t going to happen in a week unless they have taken prior at least a Nav course, first aid, sea survival radio operators and can PROVE they have sailed 2500 miles, in which case it has taken more than a week. Get it? Indeed I have passed people with considerable experience that have done a theory course (6 days) and a Yachtmaster prep course (5 days) and then the exam (1 day) but even you could see that is longer than week. 

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

A- Sea Bouy

B- MO-A

C -Safe Water Park

:ph34r:

Safe water ‘Mark’ . But that was thread was great fun and hopefully many of you would have learnt a lot. Call it a gift from me.

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20 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Endorsing it or not, it is still incorrect and a big issue for all RYS schools and examiners (and probobly ski instructors) 

we regualrly get the ‘enormous people’  showing up telling us how experienced they are and expecting us to just write them out a ticket. When we explain that they will be examined to a Syllabus and turn over some stones about their knowledge they often get all angry and start telling me how subjects like stability and the IRPCS are ‘all bullshit’ and they don’t need to know them as they have sailed all their lives. Quoting a long list of races they have won is often popular. They (and you) just don’t get it. No one without prior training or study can pass a Yachtmaster exam. There will be gaps in their knowlage and experiences that mean they can’t demonstrate the syllabus. That isn’t going to happen in a week unless they have taken prior at least a Nav course, first aid, sea survival radio operators and can PROVE they have sailed 2500 miles, in which case it has taken more than a week. Get it? Indeed I have passed people with considerable experience that have done a theory course (6 days) and a Yachtmaster prep course (5 days) and then the exam (1 day) but even you could see that is longer than week. 

Great that is a useful response.

I apologize for offending you with my ski instructor joke.

Not sure where you get the idea I have a problem with you, I'll try to get over it. I occasionally have a problem with off the cuff dismissal of someones opinion, especially when it makes a bunch of unwarranted assumptions.

As for my experience in sailing qualifications it's pretty limited, I enjoyed the coastal skipper course and exam, I helped my brother with  the IRPCS flash cards when he took his YM (with commercial). (He helped my when I did Coastal, though he a little dismissive :) ) So I have some awareness of what is involved, but certainly cant claim to have the same level of experience as you.

 

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7 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

Great that is a useful response.

I apologize for offending you with my ski instructor joke.

Not sure where you get the idea I have a problem with you, I'll try to get over it. I occasionally have a problem with off the cuff dismissal of someones opinion, especially when it makes a bunch of unwarranted assumptions.

As for my experience in sailing qualifications it's pretty limited, I enjoyed the coastal skipper course and exam, I helped my brother with  the IRPCS flash cards when he took his YM (with commercial). (He helped my when I did Coastal, though he a little dismissive :) ) So I have some awareness of what is involved, but certainly cant claim to have the same level of experience as you.

 

And I apologise for being snarky myself. I have been spending too much time in political Anarchy  lately. :) 

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2 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

The P in Mark was poking fun at you...

You need a new joke writer. Or a new spell checker.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

And I apologise for being snarky myself. I have been spending too much time in political Anarchy  lately. :) 

Did a SA forum dispute just get amicably resolved?  WTF???

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33 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Did a SA forum dispute just get amicably resolved?  WTF???

It is a new world. I am buying Randumb lunch today. 

Bwhahahahaha - just kidding. Anyway he is banned from most clubs and restaurants around here.

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8 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Anyway he is banned from most clubs and restaurants around here.

There are a few 'Under New Management'.  Good for those.

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LB, you wrote "A yachtmaster is a recreational qualification"

You are mistaken. It is a certification and while the prerequisites are different from those of other certifications such as a USCG Masters' License or, especially, an Australian Driver's License, certifications do not indicate that the holder is qualified for anything.

 

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On 9/4/2018 at 9:52 PM, LB 15 said:

What utter bullshit. Getting a zero to commercially endorsed RYA Yachtmaster takes a minimum of 85 hours classroom or online study + exams, 4 x 5 day live aboard courses, + first aid, sea survival, radio operators and Professional practices and responsibility courses, a medical and accumulating 2500 miles off which half is offshore and includes 5 x passages of over 60 miles of which the candidate was skipper on two.

Once this has all been completed the candidate can then sit a 12 hour practical exam at sea. We do however allow 'recognition of prior learning' because at the end of the day the final exam takes place on a boat, at sea in the real world where you can't hide. The schools that offer 'fast track' (zero to hero) do it as a full time 16 week course. So if you don't have the equivalent knowledge and experience you don't have a snowflakes chance in hell of passing. An RYA Yachtmaster can be used globally to skipper vessels to 2 hundred tons/24 meters. A 6 pack ain't worth jack shit outside of the Divided states of America.

I think what you are talking about is an IYT Yachtmaster which those clowns basically give out over the phone and is laughed at by most employers and insurance companies.

Whoa there partner, I will hopefully finally getting my ocean this fall, and I can without a shadow of a doubt say that I will have it done much, much faster than I could ever get a six pack completed.

 

I do agree USCG stuff is more or less useless around the world for 99% of people. 

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3 hours ago, bodega87 said:

Whoa there partner, I will hopefully finally getting my ocean this fall, and I can without a shadow of a doubt say that I will have it done much, much faster than I could ever get a six pack completed.

 

I do agree USCG stuff is more or less useless around the world for 99% of people. 

‘Finally’ get your Ocean? Yes you make it sound so easy. So you have already completed Yachtmaster Offshore then? I am pretty sure the 6 pack ( as difficult as you all seem to think it is,) dosn’t require an ocean passage as a qualifier.  Interestingly a RYA instructor mate who has moved from Aus to the US had little difficulty in getting a 6 pack. They just wanted a small amount of US seatime and to sit an exam. 

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On 9/6/2018 at 7:26 PM, Moonduster said:

LB, you wrote "A yachtmaster is a recreational qualification"

You are mistaken. It is a certification and while the prerequisites are different from those of other certifications such as a USCG Masters' License or, especially, an Australian Driver's License, certifications do not indicate that the holder is qualified for anything.

Is this some kind of academic word- wank play? Either way I will leave you to enjoy it by yourself. Clean up when you are finished. 

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10 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Is this some kind of academic word- wank play? Either way I will leave you to enjoy it by yourself. Clean up when you are finished. 

I agree with Moonduster. It's neither wordplay not pedantic at all, it's a concept at the root of the offshore diving industry I've worked in my entire career: There is a fundamental difference between "certification" and "qualification". Lots of formal training for various things out there, but showing up at the front desk with a card that's on the accepted list by no means indicates one is actually qualified to safely perform the required task, it only indicates a minimum level of training received. 

Sorry if I'm inappropriately stepping into a SA trolling deal that predates me. 

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3 hours ago, T and J Racing said:

I agree with Moonduster. It's neither wordplay not pedantic at all, it's a concept at the root of the offshore diving industry I've worked in my entire career: There is a fundamental difference between "certification" and "qualification". Lots of formal training for various things out there, but showing up at the front desk with a card that's on the accepted list by no means indicates one is actually qualified to safely perform the required task, it only indicates a minimum level of training received. 

Sorry if I'm inappropriately stepping into a SA trolling deal that predates me. 

Well while you and moonboot are qualifying to give each other a reach around, us holders of Certificates of competence are qualified to act as masters to 200 tons. In regards to your diving qualifications (dosent ‘PADI’ stand for pay and die instantly?) we have two kinds of Certificares - ‘Course completion certificares’ awarded after the successful completion of a course (as the name suggests) by an instructor and Certificates of Competence awarded after an formal examination by an independent RYA appointed and trained examiner.

In contrast,  I hold several other ‘Qualification’ including an MBA which qualifies me to do basically Jack shit. 

By your measure you grease monkeys that run pit crews and who learnt the trade on the job are not ‘qualified’ to do that without a university degree.

Best not to comment on things you have no idea about. 

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On 9/6/2018 at 7:47 PM, random said:

giphy.gif

Hiding over here from Mikey mate? Good idea - give your arse time to heal before your next reaming.

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11 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Hiding over here from Mikey mate? Good idea - give your arse time to heal before your next reaming.

2111689998_Mikey.jpg.97c4d56c169b63b176c58f8b69b0eff1.jpg

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The last place you will find him is up there mate.

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10 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Well while you and moonboot are qualifying to give each other a reach around, us holders of Certificates of competence are qualified to act as masters to 200 tons. In regards to your diving qualifications (dosent ‘PADI’ stand for pay and die instantly?) we have two kinds of Certificares - ‘Course completion certificares’ awarded after the successful completion of a course (as the name suggests) by an instructor and Certificates of Competence awarded after an formal examination by an independent RYA appointed and trained examiner.

In contrast,  I hold several other ‘Qualification’ including an MBA which qualifies me to do basically Jack shit. 

By your measure you grease monkeys that run pit crews and who learnt the trade on the job are not ‘qualified’ to do that without a university degree.

Best not to comment on things you have no idea about. 

Speaking of "commenting on things you have no idea about", no, I do not hold a PADI certificate, rather I have an IMCA Bell Diving Supervisor certification, however we must also demonstrate qualification for a specific task per IMCA C003. Former grease monkey for sure (20 years), field experience is essential to qualify one for mastery of a trade, no? 

It's not "my measure", it's the correct definition of terms. Interesting to see where you are on that one. Paper dragon?

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15 minutes ago, T and J Racing said:

Speaking of "commenting on things you have no idea about", no, I do not hold a PADI certificate, rather I have an IMCA Bell Diving Supervisor certification, however we must also demonstrate qualification for a specific task per IMCA C003. Former grease monkey for sure (20 years), field experience is essential to qualify one for mastery of a trade, no? 

It's not "my measure", it's the correct definition of terms. Interesting to see where you are on that one. Paper dragon?

As I said you are just playing with words and some reason you wish to demean the holders of Certificates of Competence. In Australia the Australian Qualification framework ranks all ‘Qualifications’ from a Certificate 1 being level 1 through to a PhD being level 10. RYA Certificates of Competence require the candidate to complete ‘qualifying’ passages prior to the Examination. Once successful they are then ‘qualified’ to act as master 200tons. For a while Yachting Australia required instructors to hold a cert 4 ‘Qualification’ in workplace training and assessment to teach but after reviewing the course we commercial schools identified it as being a complete crock of shit that in no way prepared an instructor, so we told YA to jam it up there arse and joined the worlds largest maritime training organisation the RYA. 

But since you have admitted several times you know fuck all about Sailing or the Yachting industry, perhaps it is best you stuck to changing other people’s tyres where no ‘Qualifications’ are apparently required.  And BTW welcome to SA. You will fit right in here. We love argumentative cunts on this forum, particularly the ones that wade into discussions they know zero about.

 

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24 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

As I said you are just playing with words and some reason you wish to demean the holders of Certificates of Competence. In Australia the Australian Qualification framework ranks all ‘Qualifications’ from a Certificate 1 being level 1 through to a PhD being level 10. RYA Certificates of Competence require the candidate to complete ‘qualifying’ passages prior to the Examination. Once successful they are then ‘qualified’ to act as master 200tons. For a while Yachting Australia required instructors to hold a cert 4 ‘Qualification’ in workplace training and assessment to teach but after reviewing the course we commercial schools identified it as being a complete crock of shit that in no way prepared an instructor, so we told YA to jam it up there arse and joined the worlds largest maritime training organisation the RYA. 

But since you have admitted several times you know fuck all about Sailing or the Yachting industry, perhaps it is best you stuck to changing other people’s tyres where no ‘Qualifications’ are apparently required.  And BTW welcome to SA. You will fit right in here. We love argumentative cunts on this forum, particularly the ones that wade into discussions they know zero about.

TL;DR

 

 

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Do you always talk to people like that, or is it a feature of internet website discussion forums that one should present as an asshole to strangers? 

And here I thought we Americans had cornered the market on casual rudeness.

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Nicey, nicey Anarchy is down the hallway. It is called cruising anarchy.

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4 hours ago, T and J Racing said:

TL;DR

 

 

Sorry, but not being a teenage girl I don’t speak ‘lol’. 

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On 9/7/2018 at 4:33 PM, LB 15 said:

I am pretty sure the 6 pack ( as difficult as you all seem to think it is,) dosn’t require an ocean passage as a qualifier.  

 

Interestingly a RYA instructor mate who has moved from Aus to the US had little difficulty in getting a 6 pack. 

I hold a 100 Ton Near Coastal License, with a sailing endorsement. 

 

If one does not have time outside the ColRegs line, the license is classified as ‘Inland’.  Also last I checked, OUPV Lic (6-pack) was limited to uninspected vessels operated inland or within 100 NM of the coast.  To operate beyond the 100 NM requires a Masters License. The OUPV (Operator of Uninspected Vessels) requires less sea time and is limited to uninspected vessels. Uninspected vessels are limited to 6 paying passengers.  To operate an inspected vessel, that can carry more passengers requires a Masters License of appropriate tonnage for the vessel.

To qualify for my license I needed to document 720 days of experience on a vessel 360 of these days must have been on ocean or near coastal waters and 90 days within the last 3 years.  Of that 180 days were on vessels over 51 Ton.  So yes I had a shipload of time in oceans and on passages.

 

So with all due respects you are wrong!  It is not the license that determines the number of people it is the vessel.  If I get on an Uninspected Vessel, it can still only carry 6 passengers under a normal charter agreement.   We all know guys with licenses RYA or OUPVs and even some 50 Ton folks who couldn’t dock a dinghy.  So gross generalizations are in poor form :)

 

PS- I asked the USCG what happens if I go beyond the 200 miles.  He said that is the US territorial limits, beyond that no one cares.

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I wouldn’t fight the Paper Tiger. He got his boat waaaaaaaayyyyyy before 50 and he will burn you good. There are a pile o charred bones at the entrance to his lair...

 

A40DDF71-542E-446B-BFC2-FC9EC12E4200.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Snore said:

I hold a 100 Ton Near Coastal License, with a sailing endorsement. 

 

If one does not have time outside the ColRegs line, the license is classified as ‘Inland’.  Also last I checked, OUPV Lic (6-pack) was limited to uninspected vessels operated inland or within 100 NM of the coast.  To operate beyond the 100 NM requires a Masters License. The OUPV (Operator of Uninspected Vessels) requires less sea time and is limited to uninspected vessels. Uninspected vessels are limited to 6 paying passengers.  To operate an inspected vessel, that can carry more passengers requires a Masters License of appropriate tonnage for the vessel.

To qualify for my license I needed to document 720 days of experience on a vessel 360 of these days must have been on ocean or near coastal waters and 90 days within the last 3 years.  Of that 180 days were on vessels over 51 Ton.  So yes I had a shipload of time in oceans and on passages.

 

So with all due respects you are wrong!  It is not the license that determines the number of people it is the vessel.  If I get on an Uninspected Vessel, it can still only carry 6 passengers under a normal charter agreement.   We all know guys with licenses RYA or OUPVs and even some 50 Ton folks who couldn’t dock a dinghy.  So gross generalizations are in poor form :)

 

PS- I asked the USCG what happens if I go beyond the 200 miles.  He said that is the US territorial limits, beyond that no one cares.

Indeed going into blue water with a brown water ticket is an issue in many countries.

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