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Antifouling paint and illegal dumping - info request

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I am a journalist starting work into an investigation of toxic waste dumping at a super yacht shipyard. Mostly the accusations are around improper dumping of antifouling paint, but there are also rumors of toxic PCB chemicals and other things buried at the shipyard. The chemicals apparently have been causing high rates of cancer among workers.

I'm looking to talk to anyone who has expertise in the environmental and or human health effects of antifouling paint. Or who has a general idea of how haz waste disposal is standardly done at shipyards. Or who knows about the general state of haz waste handling at shipyards. OR anyone who knows about other shipyards doing irresponsible/illegal waste disposal.

I'm really new to these topics and would really appreciate some guidance. Message me or comment if you can talk. 

 

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In paint form, the stuff is too expensive to dump. Who dumps new paint?

If your talking about what happens to the run-off once it's cleaned, it's usually captured and treated then disposed of by various methods. It doesn't cost a lot to do this and records are kept. If the problem is real, your EPA people aren't monitoring the waste disposal as they should be. I know they keep a close eye on me in my yard! If I was dumping stuff, they'd work it out pretty quick. And if I was, I'd probably go to prison or pay millions in fines...

These days the main nasties are copper & zinc, not like the old days when Tributyltin (TBT) was the toxin of choice. If it's residual TBT you're looking at, that happened a good while ago.

As for PCB's they were common when I was young and all kinds of things used to happen. But rarely found on a superyacht, mainly in a transformer or the like...

You probably need to elaborate more for better insights?

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7 hours ago, susie said:

I am a journalist starting work into an investigation of toxic waste dumping at a super yacht shipyard. Mostly the accusations are around improper dumping of antifouling paint, but there are also rumors of toxic PCB chemicals and other things buried at the shipyard. The chemicals apparently have been causing high rates of cancer among workers.

I'm looking to talk to anyone who has expertise in the environmental and or human health effects of antifouling paint. Or who has a general idea of how haz waste disposal is standardly done at shipyards. Or who knows about the general state of haz waste handling at shipyards. OR anyone who knows about other shipyards doing irresponsible/illegal waste disposal.

I'm really new to these topics and would really appreciate some guidance. Message me or comment if you can talk. 

 

What we have here is a crusader.....chasing a problem that does not exist any longer..and when it did greatly exaggerated along with the health risks 

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Susie...you do understand that the examples you gave were not widespread health problems... then cause and solution found...they where chemicals identified by activists then targeted by activists lawyers....yes they are potentially health hazard chemicals but when factoring the large and widespread scale of usage over decades and the extremely small number of medical cases "associated" with them it was really much to do about nothing especially in the marine industry....PCB's were as charism94 said mostly associated with electrical transformer scrape salvage yards

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Hey Susie,

How about a little background info so we know you're a legit journalist? What media outlet(s) do you work for? Can you provide links to past published articles you've written?

Without any of that, it's hard to know if you're a bot, an ambulance chaser, or something else.

 

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I have a story for you about this

 

I was working in a boat yard painting a bottom of a cruising boat with antifouling paint when the owners identical  twin daughters and their friend showed up on spring break from the all girl college they attended. It was a hot muggy day and they were all wearing those tiny bikinis that barely covered their perky b00bs . We consumed a bunch of cherry fizz wine coolers when all of a sudden one of the twins one her friend started..... on wait this is a family site. 

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10 hours ago, susie said:

I am a journalist starting work into an investigation of toxic waste dumping at a super yacht shipyard. Mostly the accusations are around improper dumping of antifouling paint, but there are also rumors of toxic PCB chemicals and other things buried at the shipyard. The chemicals apparently have been causing high rates of cancer among workers.

I'm looking to talk to anyone who has expertise in the environmental and or human health effects of antifouling paint. Or who has a general idea of how haz waste disposal is standardly done at shipyards. Or who knows about the general state of haz waste handling at shipyards. OR anyone who knows about other shipyards doing irresponsible/illegal waste disposal.

I'm really new to these topics and would really appreciate some guidance. Message me or comment if you can talk. 

 

Rumors of PCBs? I heard a rumor about a secret underwater UFO base off the coast of Peru - why don't you go and investigate that?

And why the fuck don't you just go talk to the shipyard? They would probably love to show you what percentage of their overhead is tied up in environmental compliance. But then you probably don't really care about the environment...you are probably just using the environment as an excuse to take a shot at the superrich people of the world that you hate with a passion.

(that was a rhetorical question even the most casual observer guesses that you are really just a blind hater looking to validate your morality amongst your peers)

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On a side note I would support the banning of all antifouling and using dive services at more frequent intervals instead: I think that in the long run it might actually be cheaper for the boat owner.

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

Hey Susie,

How about a little background info so we know you're a legit journalist? What media outlet(s) do you work for? Can you provide links to past published articles you've written?

Without any of that, it's hard to know if you're a bot, an ambulance chaser, or something else.

 

 

In addition , since you're  a hard core journalist,  we have a mandatory greeting around here..    pay the piper..   

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34 minutes ago, Parma said:

Rumors of PCBs? I heard a rumor about a secret underwater UFO base off the coast of Peru - why don't you go and investigate that?

And why the fuck don't you just go talk to the shipyard? They would probably love to show you what percentage of their overhead is tied up in environmental compliance. But then you probably don't really care about the environment...you are probably just using the environment as an excuse to take a shot at the superrich people of the world that you hate with a passion.

(that was a rhetorical question even the most casual observer guesses that you are really just a blind hater looking to validate your morality amongst your peers)

hey, California ruled that coffee gives you cancer, but i think its from that underwater UFO 

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11 hours ago, susie said:

I am a journalist starting work into an investigation of toxic waste dumping at a super yacht shipyard. Mostly the accusations are around improper dumping of antifouling paint, but there are also rumors of toxic PCB chemicals and other things buried at the shipyard. The chemicals apparently have been causing high rates of cancer among workers.

I'm looking to talk to anyone who has expertise in the environmental and or human health effects of antifouling paint. Or who has a general idea of how haz waste disposal is standardly done at shipyards. Or who knows about the general state of haz waste handling at shipyards. OR anyone who knows about other shipyards doing irresponsible/illegal waste disposal.

I'm really new to these topics and would really appreciate some guidance. Message me or comment if you can talk. 

 

First that is awkward writing for a journalist.....

Second ,I'd suggest hanging out at dive bars around the "super yacht shipyard" become a regular and buy drinks....then ask them where the secret toxic waste is buried...don't go with them if they say they'll show you or you may end up buried there too...Susie...what a irresistible screen name...they're bound to fess up

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11 hours ago, susie said:

I am a journalist starting work into an investigation of toxic waste dumping at a super yacht shipyard. Mostly the accusations are around improper dumping of antifouling paint, but there are also rumors of toxic PCB chemicals and other things buried at the shipyard. The chemicals apparently have been causing high rates of cancer among workers.

I'm looking to talk to anyone who has expertise in the environmental and or human health effects of antifouling paint. Or who has a general idea of how haz waste disposal is standardly done at shipyards. Or who knows about the general state of haz waste handling at shipyards. OR anyone who knows about other shipyards doing irresponsible/illegal waste disposal.

I'm really new to these topics and would really appreciate some guidance. Message me or comment if you can talk. 

 

Just.... wow.  Nothing like letting go the shotgun and hoping you hit something.  

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33 minutes ago, Parma said:

On a side note I would support the banning of all antifouling and using dive services at more frequent intervals instead: I think that in the long run it might actually be cheaper for the boat owner.

NFW. We have growth rates here that can easily require weekly diving if your paint is shot.

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WTF is a "super yacht shipyard" anyway? Is it better than a yacht shipyard or a ship shipyard or a boatyard or Billy Bob's worms and ice?

Hint: No one dumps paint, it costs a lot of money. They paint it on boats and then get paid for it :rolleyes:

Hint 2: If you are talking about the USA, we have had all kinds of regulations for a long time now. I surely do pay for the tarp-thing that catches all the residue from my sanding that the mandated vacuum-sander didn't catch. A "super yacht" shipyard is the LAST place that is going to cheap out on tarps and sanders. The guy making a mess is the poor guy with an old runabout in his back yard.

Hint 3: PCBs and boats hardly have any overlap on the Venn diagram. A *shipyard* might possibly have dealt with this decades ago. Maybe.

Hint 4: You have NOT complied with the mandatory greeting for N00bs. FOASUST

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Here is another lead...Tropicana Field St Pete...still makes me grin thinking of the clever cover up...this stadium is built on  a giant concrete slab poured over the footprint of large above ground fuel storage tanks built in from  30's or 40's

dome.jpg

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Hey Susie - why not go poke around anyplace SHIPS were built in WW II. Probably more toxic waste in just ONE of those yards then every recreational boatyard combined.

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33 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

NFW. We have growth rates here that can easily require weekly diving if your paint is shot.

But that is exactly what I am talking about. If I pay $2000 to redo my bottom once every 2 years that comes out to roughly/approximately $1000 per year on average.

Currently I am paying approximately $45 a month for one dive approximately every 3 weeks which equates to approximately 17 dives during the year for $540, so my $1000 a year budget would pay for around 32 dives per year.

Obviously there would be economies of scale and if marinas included a weekly guide service in their rent one or 2 or maybe 3 divers could handle a large marina, might do it for less because they don’t have to transport their equipment from marina to marina and would have full time jobs as well.

I’ve also always thought that live aboard should prepay for mandatory weekly pump outs and have that pump out included in their slip rent. (yes, I think more crap comes out of the holding tank than off the bottom)

I’m certain nobody objects to the hijack.

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13 hours ago, susie said:

I am a journalist starting work into an investigation of toxic waste dumping at a super yacht shipyard. Mostly the accusations are around improper dumping of antifouling paint, but there are also rumors of toxic PCB chemicals and other things buried at the shipyard. The chemicals apparently have been causing high rates of cancer among workers.

I'm looking to talk to anyone who has expertise in the environmental and or human health effects of antifouling paint. Or who has a general idea of how haz waste disposal is standardly done at shipyards. Or who knows about the general state of haz waste handling at shipyards. OR anyone who knows about other shipyards doing irresponsible/illegal waste disposal.

I'm really new to these topics and would really appreciate some guidance. Message me or comment if you can talk. 

 

Susie, sorry these guys aren’t helping. I’d suggest sending a PM to a poster that goes by the name of Random. He’s a wealth of useful and relevant info on issues like this. 

You wouldn’t believe the issues he learned about at Diego Garcia!

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Buy a bag of sand for your kids sandbox at Home Depot in California and it has the cancer warning label on it. The world is covered in sand and it is all cancer causing.

2 hours ago, mustang__1 said:

hey, California ruled that coffee gives you cancer, but i think its from that underwater UFO 

 

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6 minutes ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

Buy a bag of sand for your kids sandbox at Home Depot in California and it has the cancer warning label on it. The world is covered in sand and it is all cancer causing.

 

Breathing causes cancer, and it should only be done if absolutely necessary!

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2 hours ago, silent bob said:

I painted my boat, then I got the flu.  There must be a correlation.  

I got the flu and then painted my boat. Coincidence? I think not.

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2 hours ago, silent bob said:

I painted my boat, then I got the flu.  There must be a correlation.  

You might be surprised to know that if you put those things together and *thought* there was a correlation, and contacted the manufacturer of the paint, they would have to report it to the EPA.

At least in the first go-round of EPA 6(a)(2) reporting.  Then the EPA wised up and realized how ridiculous it was. . .

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In my boat building days starting late 60's to early 90's along with dusts of every kind that was always there even when no sanding or grinding was going on because the air movement picked up what had settled, I chainsawed lead keels, power planed lead keels. We had 3 garbage can with fillers,  cabosil,microballons and the other with asbestos. We had a cleaner we used for cleaning epoxy simply labeled #5 cleaner, rarely used gloves when laminating and two wash buckets of acetone, one dirty for first cleaning on hands and tools and the second cleaner acetone for second washing of hands and tools. We'd have a guy come in for big lay up over male plugs with his chopper gun,no chop strand just used the sprayed catalyzed resin side, each time before he shoot he'd trigger the MEK side until pressure was up all the while emitting a cloudy mist of MEK peroxide. Oh mixing the phenolic powered activator into the the resin side. Sucking up the fumes of 2 part foam poured around ice boxes inside the boat. Spraying Imron in a closed up shop , storing the unused catalyzed paint in the fridge for touch up the next day...on and on...Oh yeah, twice washing my eye out with acetone after catalyzed polyester was burning so much acetone was worth a try....:ph34r: 

 

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2 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Here is another lead...Tropicana Field St Pete...still makes me grin thinking of the clever cover up...this stadium is built on  a giant concrete slab poured over the footprint of large above ground fuel storage tanks built in from  30's or 40's

dome.jpg

That was the site of a coal gasification plant that later converted to natural gas storage.   Coal tar and other chemicals are infused in the soil below the field and parking lots.   Tampa also had a gas plant site in its port that turned into a natural gas storage.

EP-304239651.jpg

The tanks in the background in this picture are the containment tanks that were formally on the St. Pete site.

- Stumbling

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28 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

In my boat building days starting late 60's to early 90's along with dusts of every kind that was always there even when no sanding or grinding was going on because the air movement picked up what had settled, I chainsawed lead keels, power planed lead keels. We had 3 garbage can with fillers,  cabosil,microballons and the other with asbestos. We had a cleaner we used for cleaning epoxy simply labeled #5 cleaner, rarely used gloves when laminating and two wash buckets of acetone, one dirty for first cleaning on hands and tools and the second cleaner acetone for second washing of hands and tools. We'd have a guy come in for big lay up over male plugs with his chopper gun,no chop strand just used the sprayed catalyzed resin side, each time before he shoot he'd trigger the MEK side until pressure was up all the while emitting a cloudy mist of MEK peroxide. Oh mixing the phenolic powered activator into the the resin side. Sucking up the fumes of 2 part foam poured around ice boxes inside the boat. Spraying Imron in a closed up shop , storing the unused catalyzed paint in the fridge for touch up the next day...on and on...Oh yeah, twice washing my eye out with acetone after catalyzed polyester was burning so much acetone was worth a try....:ph34r: 

 

I am surprised that anyone that was in boat building at that time have not mutated with extra appendages or developed super powers.

- Stumbling

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13 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

I am surprised that anyone that was in boat building at that time have not mutated with extra appendages or developed super powers.

- Stumbling

I am. 

My super power is that I can identify a bullshit journalist hundreds of miles away.

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

Susie, sorry these guys aren’t helping. I’d suggest sending a PM to a poster that goes by the name of Random. He’s a wealth of useful and relevant info on issues like this. 

You wouldn’t believe the issues he learned about at Diego Garcia!

Thanks so much! I would've provided more information in my first post but it's early days. Don't want to give too much away. 

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3 hours ago, silent bob said:

Breathing causes cancer, and it should only be done if absolutely necessary!

Even Lucky Charms, oatmeal and granola bars are hazardous products now. Farmers like that Roundup because it dries out the crop. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/weed-killing-chemical-found-in-popular-breakfast-foods-1.4055532

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1 hour ago, susie said:

Thanks so much! I would've provided more information in my first post but it's early days. Don't want to give too much away. 

I can think of 3 Mega Yacht builders in the PNW and surprised if any of them would be guilty of what you describe, there was one on the Gulf of Mexico with two locations, those boys cranked out large yachts , they folded post 2008 economic collapse.... now that crew .... we’ll nothing would surprise me as I called them “shade tree mega yachts “... but they no longer exist unless they were gone after individually 

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You wanna do good in the world? Go file suit against Sea Hawk Paints, who are amongst the last in the world who still make and sell TBT antifouling, and the Bahamas, which is amongst the last places in the world in which it is legal to antifoul with TBT

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2 minutes ago, Max Rockatansky said:

You wanna do good in the world? Go file suit against Sea Hawk Paints, who are amongst the last in the world who still make and sell TBT antifouling, and the Bahamas, which is amongst the last places in the world in which it is legal to antifoul with TBT

I was involved with half a dozen cruise ship dry docks in Freeport at the Grand Bahama Ship Yard they have 3 or 4 large dry docks operating in a man made harbor dredged out of the limestone. The dry docks go 24/7/365 blasting the bottoms of cruise ships and spraying new anti fouling. Everything goes in the water there... there is also a offshore oil pump station to the onshore refinery as well as a styrofoam manufacturing plant as well as other heavy industries.... business is “Better in the Bahamas “ ... as the slogan goes 

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17 minutes ago, Max Rockatansky said:

You wanna do good in the world? Go file suit against Sea Hawk Paints, who are amongst the last in the world who still make and sell TBT antifouling, and the Bahamas, which is amongst the last places in the world in which it is legal to antifoul with TBT

 

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/industry-news/sea-hawk-paints-executives-prison-terms-banned-coating-case

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Sounds like Investigation Journalism 101. That's where you determine the outcome you want to show and then go shopping for anecdotal information to sell the shitstorm you hope to start with your name out in front on the byline. Biocides kill organisms because that's what they're supposed to do. By definition, they contain things that make them histotoxic to marine organisms and potentially to humans, too. Not all histotoxins are carcinogenic. However, if people who get cancer can put the blame on exposure to them, the financial implications are enough to encourage them and their attorneys to sell wild hypotheses to jurors who are less than critical and that story gets the desired coverage in the media. Then the media talking heads who couldn't find copper in the periodic table will start sounding off like Pasteurs. Brilliant!

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" super yacht shipyard  "

That's all I need to know about this "journalist."

Move along, susie.

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8 hours ago, Parma said:

On a side note I would support the banning of all antifouling and using dive services at more frequent intervals instead: I think that in the long run it might actually be cheaper for the boat owner.

Haha sounds good on paper. But there are a lot of places you'd have to dive on *daily.*

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1 minute ago, fastyacht said:

Haha sounds good on paper. But there are a lot of places you'd have to dive on *daily.*

In Florida during the summer a boat with out anti fouling ...after 3 days the bottom feels like 60 grit...simply amazing how fast those little barni's find a place to attach themselves and grow

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18 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

In Florida during the summer a boat with out anti fouling ...after 3 days the bottom feels like 60 grit...simply amazing how fast those little barni's find a place to attach themselves and grow

We had barnacless reach 1/4"to 1/2" diameter in less than a week--in Bridgeport CT!

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Divers around me are well over $100/dive. My wife hates me doing it in the marina because she thinks I will get an ear infection, but I have no choice because the usual diver was out with an ear infection :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, susie said:

Thanks so much! I would've provided more information in my first post but it's early days. Don't want to give too much away. 

Let us know how it goes. Random is really plugged into the grapevine for this kind of thing.

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27 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Divers around me are well over $100/dive. My wife hates me doing it in the marina because she thinks I will get an ear infection, but I have no choice because the usual diver was out with an ear infection :rolleyes:

Re: ear infection 

DAN recommends the Navy’s protocol: mix 50:50 isopropyl alcohol and white vinegar. Squirt in ear, keep in for five minutes. 

 

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1 hour ago, silent bob said:

scotw-4-16.jpg

 

Susie?

Susie is a dude

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

733a6819bdd25b0b34a2a1ee2589c93b--online

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You want  neat pollution story, workers with no safety gear, every oil, lead paint, asbestos being dumped into the ocean, lookup Shipbreaking in 3rd World Countries.  You won't believe that stuff.

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3 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

In Florida during the summer a boat with out anti fouling ...after 3 days the bottom feels like 60 grit...simply amazing how fast those little barni's find a place to attach themselves and grow

And much past 3 days, its hard to remove their bases from the hull without having antifouling paint!

Been there, done that too many times.

- Stumbling

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6 hours ago, silent bob said:

scotw-4-16.jpg

 

Susie?

I think she needs to reround the mark (or do a 360) depending on you local rules,( or in our case raise a red flag accepting a 1 minute penalty)

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On 8/20/2018 at 8:03 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Divers around me are well over $100/dive. My wife hates me doing it in the marina because she thinks I will get an ear infection, but I have no choice because the usual diver was out with an ear infection :rolleyes:

Oddly enough, I spent a whole season doing race committee after an ear infection screwed up my balance, so I wasn’t comfortable racing. Not sure what caused it, but couldn’t have possibly been the 5-6 hours a week I spent under water cleaning boat bottoms...

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On 8/20/2018 at 5:30 PM, SailBlueH2O said:

I was involved with half a dozen cruise ship dry docks in Freeport at the Grand Bahama Ship Yard they have 3 or 4 large dry docks operating in a man made harbor dredged out of the limestone. The dry docks go 24/7/365 blasting the bottoms of cruise ships and spraying new anti fouling. Everything goes in the water there... there is also a offshore oil pump station to the onshore refinery as well as a styrofoam manufacturing plant as well as other heavy industries.... business is “Better in the Bahamas “ ... as the slogan goes 

Not to mention what goes on *inside* the boats in the dry docks in the Bahamas. . .

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3 minutes ago, bplipschitz said:

Not to mention what goes on *inside* the boats in the dry docks in the Bahamas. . .

Yeah kind of creepy feeling seeing two years of worn carpet cut and ripped off the floors sending airborne gawd awful biodebris .... blowing and vacuuming all the air duct systems... when showing up at whatever port the subcontractors are lining up with rolling tool boxes awaiting the flowered shirt passengers to debark . The demo begins before the ship leaves for dry dock 10 -12 days later it is hard to believe everything will be put back together in time for the next set of passengers. Tip when planning a cruise check to see when the ship had its last dry dock which is every two years because the look a hell of a lot better shortly after a make over.

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15 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Yeah kind of creepy feeling seeing two years of worn carpet cut and ripped off the floors sending airborne gawd awful biodebris .... blowing and vacuuming all the air duct systems... when showing up at whatever port the subcontractors are lining up with rolling tool boxes awaiting the flowered shirt passengers to debark . The demo begins before the ship leaves for dry dock 10 -12 days later it is hard to believe everything will be put back together in time for the next set of passengers. Tip when planning a cruise check to see when the ship had its last dry dock which is every two years because the look a hell of a lot better shortly after a make over.

Yeah, I watched a German crew cut a huge conveyor dish machine off at the legs and pull the whole thing out.  We sweated our balls off the days they had the AC turned off.

The nice thing about going into dry dock was for crew that boarded in Miami, the boat took us on a little "cruise"  where they basically emptied all the alcohol into us.  For free.  I gobbled a few Guiness Foreign Extra Stouts before they were all gone. . .

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On 8/20/2018 at 5:09 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

What we have here is a crusader.....chasing a problem that does not exist any longer..and when it did greatly exaggerated along with the health risks 

So, OJ, when exactly did you stop beating your wife?

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On 8/20/2018 at 11:19 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

In addition , since you're  a hard core journalist,  we have a mandatory greeting around here..    pay the piper..   

But what if this is the SCOTW??

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On 8/20/2018 at 10:42 PM, VWAP said:

Susie is a dude

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

733a6819bdd25b0b34a2a1ee2589c93b--online

I thought that was Charles Bronson for a sec before I realized it was Susie. Boatyard shit will do that to a girl.

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are we sure Susie is not thinking an aircraft carrier is a Megayacht as the wooden decks were treated with stuff with PCB's in it AFAIK

Is there any megayacht base in an old navy yard anywhere?

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On 8/20/2018 at 5:02 PM, SailBlueH2O said:

In Florida during the summer a boat with out anti fouling ...after 3 days the bottom feels like 60 grit...simply amazing how fast those little barni's find a place to attach themselves and grow

 

https://www.uni-kiel.de/en/details/news/in-the-fight-against-barnacles-non-stick-surfaces-in-the-ocean/

Barnacles on Your Boat - Could They Be a Thing of the Past?
A research team at Kiel University in Germany claims to have created a new boat surface that prevents the permanent growth of barnacles without toxic substances being introduced into the sea.

BarnacleMushroom.jpgFor the development of the new surface, the researchers first analyzed the wettability of the barnacle cement meaning the ability of the organisms to adhere to surfaces underwater and to spread their "cement" throughout the surface.

"Our research has shown that adhesives used by organisms that settle underwater can stick to almost any surface. The reason is the complex chemical composition of these adhesives. The aim of our research was to develop a surface as universal as possible, which, based on physical principles, prevents the organisms from adhering permanently," says first author Dennis Petersen from the Zoological Institute of Kiel University.

Based on the new findings, the researchers have succeeded in developing a coating made of a non-toxic silicone with a new microstructure similar to that of a mushroom head.

Similar to the lotus effect causing liquids to roll off smooth surfaces, the geometry of the new structure prevents a strong adhesive bond between barnacles or mussels with the newly developed coating surface.

In a first practical test, parts of the hull of four sailing yachts of the Kiel Yacht Club were covered with the new material and tested for one season. No barnacles or other macro-foulers such as mussels could be found on the new coating.

The material also showed other positive characteristics. While barnacles on hard materials - such as metal or acrylic glass - break off bluntly during removal and leave their adhesive layer behind, they could be detached from this soft material without leaving any residue.

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Not holding my breath for the commercial version of this...

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On 8/20/2018 at 8:11 AM, Parma said:

On a side note I would support the banning of all antifouling and using dive services at more frequent intervals instead: I think that in the long run it might actually be cheaper for the boat owner.

 Really bad idea put forth by someone who has never cleaned an unpainted boat bottom.

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2 hours ago, fstbttms said:

 Really bad idea put forth by someone who has never cleaned an unpainted boat bottom.

But on the plus side, ideas such as his would have you hired a couple times a week. Lol!

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7 hours ago, fstbttms said:

 Really bad idea put forth by someone who has never cleaned an unpainted boat bottom.

Member of the Washington State legislature, no doubt.

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Like it or not

On 9/1/2018 at 12:32 PM, Monkey said:

But on the plus side, ideas such as his would have you hired a couple times a week. Lol!

Yep.

Like it or not the trend towards a complete prohibition on bottom paint started years ago. A couple of nationally publicized/televised "Susie" articles (which will portray all yachties as hateful super rich superyachties) along with gratuitous pictures of rich, fat, obnoxious white people is all you need to complete the circuit and get the legislation enacted. Especially true for somewhere like California.

I fully acknowledge that my bottom paint pollutes the water she sails in and I'd be willing to go to a "dive only" regimen understanding that others may face different circumstances and be fully against the idea.

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Here's a better story....find out what happened to LilMurray

Or Lesbian robot

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10 minutes ago, Parma said:

Like it or not

Yep.

Like it or not the trend towards a complete prohibition on bottom paint started years ago. 

I fully acknowledge that my bottom paint pollutes the water she sails in and I'd be willing to go to a "dive only" regimen understanding that others may face different circumstances and be fully against the idea.......yachting is a drop from the anti fouling paint bucket

 

antiFoul.jpg

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Yes, well all know that. Plus military vessels = cruise ships x 1,000.

I guess I just don't get the point you are trying to make.

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29 minutes ago, Parma said:

Like it or not

Yep.

Like it or not the trend towards a complete prohibition on bottom paint started years ago. A couple of nationally publicized/televised "Susie" articles (which will portray all yachties as hateful super rich superyachties) along with gratuitous pictures of rich, fat, obnoxious white people is all you need to complete the circuit and get the legislation enacted. Especially true for somewhere like California.

I fully acknowledge that my bottom paint pollutes the water she sails in and I'd be willing to go to a "dive only" regimen understanding that others may face different circumstances and be fully against the idea.

You don't get what would happen. I made the mistake of not bottom painting a dinghy and getting distracted by other issues. By the time I got around to bringing it home and painting it, it is was a very near thing getting the barnacles off and getting the bottom smooth without just having to buy a new boat. Barnacles on fiberglass = the strongest super glue ever invented.  A diver is NEVER going to get that shit off.

Kind of like making painting cars illegal and hiring a kid to sand the rust off every day :rolleyes:

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No, I did read and comprehend what others have said, which is why what the researchers in Kiel are doing is worth noting.

As the environmental laws tighten up (and they are going to slowly, inexorably tighten up) I think that more attention & funds will probably go to developing surface coatings with the desired properties.

Here's to sooner rather than later.

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I have a holding tank and Baltimore spills raw sewage by the millions of gallons :rolleyes:

I'll get some super $$$$ amazing bottom paint that is friendly to all the nice sea creatures and sail past 20 anchored freighters with bottom paint made from radium, PCBs, arsenic, and cyanide that kills everything within 20 miles painted on by 11 year-olds in India using their little sister's head as a paint brush.

* anyone remember Sears bottom paint from the 1970s? I don't know what was in it, but your boat would come out looking absolutely clean after a year and that was with no diving or cleaning of any kind. It was cheap too and probably killed barnacles in the whole marina, not just on your boat. I have a photo somewhere of me painting that stuff on when I was about 9 years old. Probably going to grow an extra head any time now :o

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51 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

bottom paint made from radium, PCBs, arsenic, and cyanide that kills everything within 20 miles painted on by 11 year-olds in India using their little sister's head as a paint brush That's actually kind of funny in a sad but true kind of way.

}* anyone remember Sears bottom paint from the 1970s? I don't know what was in it, but your boat would come out looking absolutely clean after a year and that was with no diving or cleaning of any kind.

Yes, I remember that stuff. Got it at JT O'Connells on Thames until my dad found it at Sears. I don't think they had divers back then, didn't need them (?)

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Just now, Parma said:

Yes, I remember that stuff. Got it at JT O'Connells on Thames until my dad found it at Sears.

Actually 

Sears sold an excellent anti fouling paint in the 60's and 70's.....used a lot of it on rental sailboats in Miami

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7 minutes ago, Parma said:

Yes, I remember that stuff. Got it at JT O'Connells on Thames until my dad found it at Sears. I don't think they had divers back then, didn't need them (?)

Back then no divers needed, the paint would probably kill them too :o

As for the kids.............

035-India-Alang-1992.jpg

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On 8/20/2018 at 11:52 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

 

PCBs and boats hardly have any overlap on the Venn diagram. A *shipyard* might possibly have dealt with this decades ago. Maybe.

 

Pleasure Boatyard Soils are Often Highly Contaminated

 

 

Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) in recreational marina sediments of San Diego Bay, southern California.

 

 

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I had no idea anyone ever put PCBs in bottom paint? WTF?

I am sure that has not been done in ages and likewise hydraulic fluid and transformer oil, both of which are not common on boats but are on ships, have been PCB free for a long time. The most likely way a lot of places got PCB contamination is power companies sold the used PCB laced oil or gave it away as *dust control to spread on dirt roads* :o

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I had no idea anyone ever put PCBs in bottom paint? WTF?

I am sure that has not been done in ages and likewise hydraulic fluid and transformer oil, both of which are not common on boats but are on ships, have been PCB free for a long time. The most likely way a lot of places got PCB contamination is power companies sold the used PCB laced oil or gave it away as *dust control to spread on dirt roads* :o

I survived all that stuff....including spraying DDT aerosol on myself 1950's Taiwan...

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7 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I survived all that stuff....including spraying DDT aerosol on myself 1950's Taiwan...

Jesus Christ...you're like Rasputin!

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit said:

It's been commercially available for over a decade.

https://www.international-marine.com/type/foul-release-coatings

No it hasn't. A typical foul-release coating like the one you have linked to will foul like any other paint but is slick enough that organisms are easily wiped off (if removed in a timely manner.) The coating mentioned above claims to actually keep barnacles (in particular) from ever attaching.

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20 minutes ago, fstbttms said:

No it hasn't. A typical foul-release coating like the one you have linked to will foul like any other paint but is slick enough that organisms are easily wiped off (if removed in a timely manner.) The coating mentioned above claims to actually keep barnacles (in particular) from ever attaching.

Read the last paragraph, it's essentially the same stuff. Now these guys are leading edge in the technology with confidential licenses to other manufacturers.

http://www.cmp.co.jp/library/global/pdf/brochure/cmp_bio_plus.pdf#zoom=80

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Fixit's brother,, Mr. Fixit said:

Read the last paragraph, it's essentially the same stuff. Now these guys are leading edge in the technology with confidential licenses to other manufacturers.

http://www.cmp.co.jp/library/global/pdf/brochure/cmp_bio_plus.pdf#zoom=80

You didn't read the actual article. These are two different technologies we're talking about:

"...the researchers have succeeded in developing a coating made of a non-toxic silicone with a new microstructure similar to that of a mushroom head. Similar to the lotus effect causing liquids to roll off smooth surfaces, the geometry of this new structure prevents a strong adhesive bond between barnacles or mussels with the newly developed coating surface."

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11 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Again, yep!

As a result of that and other findings the Port Authority in San Diego instituted a much more rigorous marina inspection program, focusing on the very highly toxic contents of dock boxes, which caused the management at my marina to be let go. I don't know if there was also a settlement of some kind requiring greater oversight but the new management & myself agree that the many hundreds of liveaboards in San Diego Bay are a much greater source of toxic pollution than what is in the dock boxes or in the paints on the hulls of the boats. In fact I have never seen any of the liveaboards in my marina ever get a pump out. Not once in 10 years.

But the fact remains that liveaboards are not as attractive or as politically correct a target as are rich yachties.

(If anyone from the Port Authority of San Diego is reading this it would be a great idea if liveaboards were charged a fee paid to the Port Authority sufficient for the Port Authority to contract for a weekly pump out service for each and every liveaboard in San Diego Bay)

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The liveaboard community at Shilshole in Seattle is an asset to the marina. They are required to document their pumpouts and pay a stiff liveaboard fee (at least the ones who are official). They're also the first to screen strangers on the dock, report any criminal activity in the marina, keep an eye on boats that may be having trouble (e.g. slowly sinking in their slip), check lines before storms roll in, catch and report diesel and other spills immediately, and the like. 

I haven't lived aboard for a few years but I'm very glad there are numerous liveaboards on my dock.  

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24 minutes ago, Parma said:

Again, yep!

As a result of that and other findings the Port Authority in San Diego instituted a much more rigorous marina inspection program, focusing on the very highly toxic contents of dock boxes, which caused the management at my marina to be let go. I don't know if there was also a settlement of some kind requiring greater oversight but the new management & myself agree that the many hundreds of liveaboards in San Diego Bay are a much greater source of toxic pollution than what is in the dock boxes or in the paints on the hulls of the boats. In fact I have never seen any of the liveaboards in my marina ever get a pump out. Not once in 10 years.

But the fact remains that liveaboards are not as attractive or as politically correct a target as are rich yachties.

(If anyone from the Port Authority of San Diego is reading this it would be a great idea if liveaboards were charged a fee paid to the Port Authority sufficient for the Port Authority to contract for a weekly pump out service for each and every liveaboard in San Diego Bay)

Plenty of us were taught at a young age (1970 or so) not to take a dump in the marina, but walk up and use the marina head. YMMV.

Our marina has a pump-out tank on wheels you can roll around to your boat if your live-aboard has become too overgrown to move to the free pumpout dock under her own power.

* btw, pumping the head straight overboard in the marina is 1% as gross as the MFer who dumped his entire holding tank :angry:

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4 minutes ago, Parma said:

In fact I have never seen any of the liveaboards in my marina ever get a pump out. Not once in 10 years.

(If anyone from the Port Authority of San Diego is reading this it would be a great idea if liveaboards were charged a fee paid to the Port Authority sufficient for the Port Authority to contract for a weekly pump out service for each and every liveaboard in San Diego Bay)

Most liveaboards use the marina bathrooms exclusively;  there's only a few bad eggs that surreptitiously pump or dump overboard, or dump their porta-potties into the toilets which inevitably creates a clogged up mess.  Active sailors use the free pumpout station at the marina after a daysail.  I see the pumpout service boat plying its trade nearly every day.

And pumping overboard,  liveaboard or not,  poop or bilge oil, is hard to hide.  There's a Coast Guard hotline you can anonymously call and the few times I've used it the Coasties show up guns a'blazing in twenty minutes or less.  I don't think illegal dumping is a big problem in San Diego marinas.

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I don't come to your place of business and take a shit on the carpet. Please extend to me the same courtesy. :angry:

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One of the more interesting things at the Newport boat show was the "Drive in Boat Wash"

Amongst the highlights are that it "improves water quality by eliminating anti-fouling paint" and "captures any toxic or invasive materials for proper disposal"

Apparently one of these has already been installed by the Port Authority of San Diego. (whatever happened to that "no cloud" rule which outlawed ablatives???)

http://www.driveinboatwashusa.com

Yeah, it has a lot of drawbacks (such as taking 15 minutes +/- per boat) but as more & more compounds are banned from bottom paints I suppose something like this may become inevitable.

Grudge articles like Susie's will likely compress the timeline.

 

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Lots of videos, but none show before and after.

How good is it where one has a long prop shaft to a strut?

Do not like the bootstripe brush,as  that looks like it could take out one's awlgrip job if the boat before you was some POS full of mussels, dirt etc.

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