Katanna

Melges 24 vs Seascape 18

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Looking to get into a sport boat and comparing the two. It will be a light crew most of the time with some singlehanded pleasure sailing mixed in. Majority of racing will be beer can. Lake St Clair two foot chop. 

Would the Melges be too much boat? Logic would say the length would handle the waves better. Also more available and more affordable. Love the symplicity  of the Seascape, could I depower the Melges for lighter crew?

Steve

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A Melges 24 is a LOT of boat for 2 people.  Unless you sail in very light conditions I'd say you would need to be very serious about your sailing to doublehand one all the time.

Although the Melges are now available used, - and are great boats ( I used to crew on # 002 ! )  - they might not be the best for 2-up and mixed-use  ( as in,  with the keel up they aren't very good,  unlike the Seascapes )   & when it's windy at all, four people are sailing their asses off - it's a whole lot more everything, not Just the 6 foot difference.

I saw the Seascape 24 & 27 in Naptown and liked them a lot,  but haven't sailed them.

This opinion is worth what you paid for it.

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Thanks for the reply. I am going to try and get out on a Melges this week. 

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I sailed a melges doublehanded for fun and was proficient at it. 

But the true power of a melges is with a crew 

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you are not comparing the right ones as Melges 20 would be closer match for the 18s. However, if you have an active fleet and you want to do beer can racing in not too much wind, Melges24 is one of the best designed boats of all times (IMO)...

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The Melges 24 does not sail well when heeled. I would recommend either a smaller boat where your crew weight is closer to what it has been designed for (Melges 20, J/70?), or a boat that sails okay with lots of heel (For example a J/80 is such a boat).

I’ve never seen a seascape so I cannot comment on that.

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a choice in between the two, but closer to the Seascape is a U20.  It does very well with 2 people (~350 lbs total).  You need to reef the main when the wind gets somewhere above 12-15 knots to keep it controllable.  However, you can get it up on a plane and sail all day with 2 people.   Singlehanding is a little more difficult, but doable.

 

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Might suggest you visit the Macatawa Bay Yacht Club in Holland Michigan and try out a VX1from their fleet. Great sport boat,  It races on the lake with 2, single hands OK, has a big cockpit. If sailed well can beat a M24.  Less expensive than the boats you are looking at.

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I am a single-handed multihull sailor and I have not sailed any of these two boats. However from looking at the videos (I look at these all the time), the Seascape 18 would be the only monohull that would make me change to a monohull sailor.  It checks all the boxes for me; Fast (planning hull), Fun, easy to single-hand but you can take the family, easily trailerable, beachable, and usable cabin. All of this in an 18ft package.  I do not think it gets much better than that. The only drawback I see is that it is relatively slow upwind; I am used to going 10kts upwind. Not a huge deal but I am spoiled. Downwind it looks like a lot fun, though. It is not clear to me what the total price would be in the USA.

Cheers, 

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14 hours ago, sailhmb said:

Might suggest you visit the Macatawa Bay Yacht Club in Holland Michigan and try out a VX1from their fleet. Great sport boat,  It races on the lake with 2, single hands OK, has a big cockpit. If sailed well can beat a M24.  Less expensive than the boats you are looking at.

Ditto what he said.  The VX-1 is vastly superior to either of these two other choices and will reward you quicker than the Melgi or Seascape.

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On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:06 PM, JimBowie said:

Ditto what he said.  The VX-1 is vastly superior to either of these two other choices and will reward you quicker than the Melgi or Seascape.

Ok seriously a VX-1 vastly superior to a M24?  Maybe with just 2 crew in over 12kts a breeze.  Give me under 8kts of breeze and 1 other friend and I'll beat a VX up down and around the course every time. 

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1 hour ago, port tack said:

Ok seriously a VX-1 vastly superior to a M24?  Maybe with just 2 crew in over 12kts a breeze.  Give me under 8kts of breeze and 1 other friend and I'll beat a VX up down and around the course every time. 

Game on!

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I haven't sailed on a VX one , but have spent all day hanging over the lifelines of a M24 more than I liked. The M24 only needs crew to hoist and douse the spin, and provide ballast. A skipper and a fat man would be competitive under 8 knots. Your experience may be somewhat different lol!

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On 8/29/2018 at 10:14 AM, vaplaya said:

It is not clear to me what the total price would be in the USA.

$34,995 (from the Seascape USA website). It includes everything you need to go sailing but you'll likely need also a Trailer and there are a few other useful extras (sail covers, mooring kit, ...). 

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Yes.  Trailer, outboard, taxes, registration fees, boat cover, sail cover, mast cover, and trapeze lines (just kidding). 

I adds up to a number that may be high for an 18 footer.  I still do think is a nice boat, though. 

Cheers, 

 

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For grins, comfort, ease of sailing and great performance, I would second trying an Ultimate 20. Very easy boat to step into sportboat racing. Does very well in PHRF and several very good boats in the classifieds. Certainly will give you a keelboat feel. If you are looking for more of a dingy feel then look at VX1, viper etc..

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If you're looking at used boats then I understand, but even at the new price point (and trying to be unbiased here) check out the RS21... there was a demo at Grosse Point Yacht Club just after Labor Day and there are others in the area considering it.  

It would be easily sailed by 2 but still plenty exciting and could take up to 4 or 5 very comfortably.  And it's got the built in Torqeedo sail drive so no reason to hang any engine off the transom.

Email me if you have questions. Todd@rssailing.com 

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The RS 21 is not cheap, but at about $10K more than VX-1 it's a more user-friendly package for oldsters.  The RS, Seascape, Melges or VX 1 are all great boats.

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True... it's not cheap but it's really hard to compare MSRPs on different boats versus the various aspects of the value you get in purchase and ownership. Not to mention that used market is a whole different conversation.

I don't want to appear to be hijacking this thread... I'd just ask that you try sailing an RS21 (and all the boats you're looking at for that matter) rather than make your judgment off of price, we're doing demos all over.  

The RS21 retail price is that landed at 5 different distributors (and many other dealers) throughout North America, making it less the cost of getting a boat driven cross country than any only landed or built on the East Coast (most I can think of). Additionally those 5 distributors have the margin to support the boat in all sorts of ways and bring in replacement parts more locally than an East Coast only company.  We thought it was really important that we gave our partners more margin than other small keelboats so that they actually support the owners.  This adds to a bit more of the cost of the boat as well but will pay for itself in the long run for most owners.

RS1 is about the same price as a Viper 640 .

VX One is probably about 7-8K cheaper than the RS21.

J70 and Melges 24 are 10-25K more than an RS21.

I don't know much about the Seascape 18 but I don't think it compares directly to an RS21 either.

All apples and oranges really, all good boats but all different, you should just sail them all!

 

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Looking at the price of a VXOne at $36k with a trailer and sails you are really within $4k for much more of a boat. And the RS21 trailer is built by Triad and a very nice trailer.

Seascape 18 is a pretty small boat so not that comparable. Let us know if you want to check out an RS21. We have a demo boat at our shop in Indiana. GPYC is looking to get a fleet.

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