full circle

shit show (front page)

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from the video on the front page "shit show", i'm thinking these boats and teams will have such a high learning curve to control them, that any team that does not mostly master them will be a joke. the video makes it look like it just fucking spun up and out of the water.

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Just remember how f---ing stupid you looked when you started to walk!!!  Maybe you didn't change. These ducklings will learn.

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Haven't we all sailed dinghies on windy days where the one who kept the mast vertical was the one who won the race?

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23 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said:

YES BUT I WILL BE FUN TO WATCH:lol:

No, you won't.

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Yes!  They are deadly dangerous!  We should return to gentlemanly contest waged in Dragon sailboats, cotton sails, hemp rope and men in white cotton suits!

Black-Jacks.jpg

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in the absence of Oracle Team USA, at least Ben and the new Ineos team give us all a villain to root AGAINST. on a forum like this, i think that's definitely worth something. 

After ditching their loyal sponsors and team ethos of environmental stewardship and sustainability, and instead selling their souls to the devil and aligning themselves with a Trumpy Brexiteer who made his money off fracking, i was surprisingly giddy to watch this crash on a loop.

i'm excited to see the Kiwis come out swinging and controllably foiling around the Hauraki Gulf. When does that video come out?!

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Video pulled. Not surprisingly. These new boats suck worse than the last round. Why try to reinvent the wheel? Make something competitive that people can understand. Not everyone gives a shit about foils.

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36 minutes ago, bodega87 said:

Video pulled. 

:(  Can anybody describe what happened?

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I know it was a pretty short video, but I failed to see it begin to self right?  It looked like the one foil was stuck in the up position and the leward foil deep in the water?  That mast seemed planted horizontally.

mpt

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4 minutes ago, masterpiecetheater said:

I know it was a pretty short video, but I failed to see it begin to self right?  It looked like the one foil was stuck in the up position and the leward foil deep in the water?  That mast seemed planted horizontally.

mpt

Does that test boat even have ballasted foils?

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I get that the AC50s were not suitable for rough conditions ... but ... but they were awesome.  I still watch the races every know and then.  They just needed to ditch people pumping oil, that was stupid.

From what has been reported, it is the Italian financiers who have insisted on the mono-hull returning.  Then they got ambushed by the success of the foiling spectacle and had to then make a foiling mono. 

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44 minutes ago, weightless said:

Does that test boat even have ballasted foils?

If it doesn't, it's not a test boat.

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30 minutes ago, random said:

I get that the AC50s were not suitable for rough conditions ... but ... but they were awesome. 

 

To some extent they are. Lower the jib, dial zero lift, partly raise the boards and sail like a normal cat.

Edited by Sysfx
small correction
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4 minutes ago, Sysfx said:

If it doesn't, it's not a test boat.

I think they may be testing systems rather than trying to make a true analogue. Haven't been following closely enough to know for sure.

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What happened to the link on the FP?? Taken down already?

Edit, 

nice to see some new socks and posters here with this as well. We need more spy’s on the water. 

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

:(  Can anybody describe what happened?

Why yes

It was a hot summer day at the pool. Two identical twin sisters and their friends also identical twins were on summer vacation from the all girl college they attended. After consuming a few boxes of cherry fizz wine coolers two of the women jumped in the pool and started to.... Oh wait this is a family site. Never mind

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28 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Why yes

It was a hot summer day at the pool. Two identical twin sisters and their friends also identical twins were on summer vacation from the all girl college they attended. After consuming a few boxes of cherry fizz wine coolers two of the women jumped in the pool and started to.... Oh wait this is a family site. Never mind

were they lesbianz?

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6 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

were they lesbianz?

 

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This thread has taught me a lot inthe last 1/4 of an hour.

I’ll have to check back as soon as I bleach my eyes and ears!

And do they sell the flakka with the dildo? Asking for a friend

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The video being pulled tells a thousand stories....The first aeroplanes had issues too.!  

 

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That the video has been pulled tells us all we need to know about the America’s Cup. This event has crashed and burned. They should be thrilled there is any coverage at all. 

Clearly they don’t want us to give them our attention.

I’ll gladly spend my time watching other things. Grass growing is more exciting than a bunch of spoiled rich white fucks who think they are something special.

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INEOS could have requested the poster pull it down out of embarrassment, and possibly paid them.

But.... why have sailing anarchy removed the post from the front page entirely, as if nothing ever happened?

Has someone been hurt? 

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10 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Grass growing is more exciting than a bunch of spoiled rich white fucks who think they are something special.

Well, in some respects I agree, but the last AC was way more exciting then 12 metres.  And the next one will be something you just have to watch even if you don't want to.

I recall seeing the first still picture of a foiling AC50 not that long before the event and thought is must have been photoshopped.  Then less than a year after that they were completing the entire race without touching down once.  Based on that I expect the 75s to be even more impressive.  Let's hope anyway.

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13 hours ago, Xlot said:

:(  Can anybody describe what happened?

INEOS foiling/reaching on port tack, then wiping out to starboard, almost like a chinese jibe on a laser

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3 hours ago, random said:

  And the next one will be something you just have to watch even if you don't want to.

Like a train wreck?

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Video has been replaced with one taken from another angle, and is back on the front page. Problem is, you can't see shit in that video. 

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I think Hugh W said the foils aren't ballasted on this test boat.  Scaling phenomena, and probably simplicity as well.  Plenty of righting moment with the traps.

Pretty easy to calculate stability on the real boat to know it self rights.

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This boats will awsome, taking a new step in sailing tech. Love it!  A few hickups, so what

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That boat didn't just trip.  Somehow it jump tacked into a death roll or some shit.

I guess I just don't get the point of this new crap boat.  Its either going to fail miserably, which will be entertaining but not provide any good racing.  Or its going to work, and go fast like the cats which makes tacking/gybing slow so we are back to 2 boats hauling ass around a course more or less following each other.

The soft wingsail technology is promising but they could have done that in cats.  These ridiculous wing/foils aren't anything that will trickle down to any but the most extreme boats.

 

Whats a waste of 4 years...

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i was fortunate to be there for day 1 of TNZ vs Oracle and it was awesome.  I am for really hi tech fast boats or J Class mega yachts.  12 meter? They were and are very cool but to watch 2 of them go around a course?  Kinda like watching golf. 

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

i was fortunate to be there for day 1 of TNZ vs Oracle and it was awesome.  I am for really hi tech fast boats or J Class mega yachts.  12 meter? They were and are very cool but to watch 2 of them go around a course?  Kinda like watching golf. 

i feel on the other hand...these boats are boring in the pre-start, will maneuver poorly when going slow(not foiling) and once one boat gets in the lead, it seems to be over, barring any crash. if any boats touches the water and is not foiling, they will be beaten by the other boat. in other words, the one that foils the most wins. kind of takes the sailing strategy out, and replaces it with boat handling.

 

sure they go fast, and the technology is insane, but to win the america's cup, i would rather see the best sailing team win, not the luckiest team in a particular race.

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Whenever something new comes around it gets all the shit from the traditional folks. And at a certain point in time a new generation starts with the new stuff cause the traditional one is boring. I don’t want to sail that mad foiling dingies (now) but I like to watch this crazy stuff. Who nows what is chic in 15-20 years. But without prototyping we wouldn‘t had cool stuff now. 

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I was wondering whatever happened to my 0.3 megapixel palm pilot.

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5 hours ago, full circle said:

in other words, the one that foils the most wins. kind of takes the sailing strategy out, and replaces it with boat handling.

sure would rather see the best sailing team win, not the luckiest team in a particular race.

you are contradicting yourself, mate. one thing i've learned about foiling (from doing it), is that you don't get lucky and keep the thing on foil all the time. it's hard. i'm okay with it becoming a test of boat handling skills. the best team still wins. 

I was totally okay with the AC50's too, I thought they were rad. As someone else said however, the constant pumping of oil was fucking stupid. teams became incentivized to merely hire a world class cyclist or grinder who knew fuck all about yachting. that's not a fully crewed sailing race, it's an oil pumping contest with another guy driving.

One thing the last few AC's taught me is that I won't pass judgement on the boats until the actual racing takes place. If the racing is a flop or the boats are a flop, then i'll form my opinion. But until then, i'm captivated at the learning curve, though I honestly wish they just stayed with foiling cats and built a sustainable series out of the whole thing. 

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50 minutes ago, ronnie_simpson said:

..... you don't get lucky and keep the thing on foil all the time. it's hard. i'm okay with it becoming a test of boat handling skills. the best team still wins. 

I was totally okay with the AC50's too, I thought they were rad. As someone else said however, the constant pumping of oil was fucking stupid. teams became incentivized to merely hire a world class cyclist or grinder who knew fuck all about yachting. that's not a fully crewed sailing race, it's an oil pumping contest with another guy driving.

One thing the last few AC's taught me is that I won't pass judgement on the boats until the actual racing takes place. If the racing is a flop or the boats are a flop, then i'll form my opinion. But until then, i'm captivated at the learning curve, though I honestly wish they just stayed with foiling cats and built a sustainable series out of the whole thing. 

^^^^ Exactly this....

Remember the Superfoilers?

https://www.superfoiler.com/

 

20DC5C04-D5CC-4FE1-A73F-EA314CEFBFE7.jpeg

781A668F-8EDB-4915-ABD2-E2FCAB6AC574.jpeg

21F7A3C4-4790-48DA-AE23-D84DB3CAB48D.jpeg

8C3FBC09-83D2-470A-B0A1-DC96234FB8BA.jpeg

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Looks to me like the rudder ventilated (in the previous high res vid you saw a bit of a roostertail). As they lost stearing the boat tacked itself and flipped.

in the early bladeriderdays this also often happened, although it resulted in no control and the boat crabbing sideways, not crashing into a a tack.

my 2c.
 

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37 minutes ago, constantijn said:

Looks to me like the rudder ventilated (in the previous high res vid you saw a bit of a roostertail). As they lost stearing the boat tacked itself and flipped.

in the early bladeriderdays this also often happened, although it resulted in no control and the boat crabbing sideways, not crashing into a a tack.

my 2c.
 

I only saw the pixelated video, but i think it's Newton's second law, based on rudder ventilation or breakage, ending with the same effect like here: 

 

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Everyone remembers what testing is and what its for, right?

Pretty sure that when Brian Trubshaw got concorde going he didn't say 'nah lads lets just keep this sub-sonic shall we?'

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Front page video still shows for me?  Very grainy and jerky, so hard to tell what exactly happened.

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14 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Front page video still shows for me?  Very grainy and jerky, so hard to tell what exactly happened.

+1.

Me too...all I got was "something broke." Portents of things to come...bring back the creaking lead-sleds.

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1 minute ago, BobBill said:

+1.

Me too...all I got was "something broke." Portents of things to come...bring back the creaking lead-sleds.

 

AC should be sailed in TP52's!!

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What kind of camera recorded that????  It's black and white,  and looked like something from the 1940s !!!!!!   More Fake News

 

 

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On 8/29/2018 at 3:49 PM, Glenn McCarthy said:

Haven't we all sailed dinghies on windy days where the one who kept the mast vertical was the one who won the race?

No, but I do recall when the winner was the one who recovered quickest from capsizing.

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Front page video still shows for me?  Very grainy and jerky, so hard to tell what exactly happened.

They put up a new much crappier video.

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Original video was posted on facebook. Was poor quality.

It then was taken down a few hours later and also disappeared from eh front page (hence post up thread).

Then this very low quality MP4 was put back on the front page. Seems to be from the same angle to me, with the same audio, but just much much worse resolution. Still, you can get the idea. 

 

 

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The idea was keeping the skippers vertical. \

Seriously, most of the dudes I sailed with liked the dunkings.

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9 hours ago, remenich said:

I only saw the pixelated video, but i think it's Newton's second law, based on rudder ventilation or breakage, ending with the same effect like here: 

 

Thats the best wipe out I've seen in a while.  The way the boat comes back to him is hilarious.  Thanks for the Friday laugh.

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AC has its "panache" or novelty and tickle, but for sailing, just not my cuppa to do in helmet. Too much like wearing a suit of armor to use a longboard.

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On 8/30/2018 at 11:56 AM, sunseeker said:

That the video has been pulled tells us all we need to know about the America’s Cup. This event has crashed and burned. They should be thrilled there is any coverage at all. 

Clearly they don’t want us to give them our attention.

I’ll gladly spend my time watching other things. Grass growing is more exciting than a bunch of spoiled rich white fucks who think they are something special.

Clearly you are being held hostage by a group of poor dark skinned people who’s mission it is to bring down western society as we know it. They are obviously trying to use the massive influence and respect you enjoy in the worldwide sailing community to undermine the success of the AC. If I am right, blink once. If you want help to escape , blink twice. If Stockholm Syndrome has already kicked in and you are giving your captors a round of blow jobs then close your eyes and suck it up. 

 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Clearly you are being held hostage by a group of poor dark skinned people who’s mission it is to bring down western society as we know it. They are obviously trying to use the massive influence and respect you enjoy in the worldwide sailing community to undermine the success of the AC. If I am right, blink once. If you want help to escape , blink twice. If Stockholm Syndrome has already kicked in and you are giving your captors a round of blow jobs then close your eyes and suck it up. 

 

 

Calm down and watch something you are use too.

 

 

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1 hour ago, VWAP said:

 

Calm down and watch something you are use too.

 

 

Gosh. Each to their own I guess.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Gosh. Each to their own I guess.

Glad that gave you something to look fwd to this evening. Or is it in the morning?

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Finally saw the footage.

SHIT HAPPENS

Have Scot, the Ed, tell you about one of his first experiences in a Sabot again. It's somewhere here on SA.

Shit Happens

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5 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Finally saw the footage.

SHIT HAPPENS

Have Scot, the Ed, tell you about one of his first experiences in a Sabot again. It's somewhere here on SA.

Shit Happens

Sidney Sabot?

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8 hours ago, BobBill said:

AC has its "panache" or novelty and tickle, but for sailing, just not my cuppa to do in helmet. Too much like wearing a suit of armor to use a longboard.

You should try snow skiing these days . You're seriously looked down upon if  you don;t turn up with one .

I see pictures of J class foredeck crew donning them .

Times change , you'll get over it .

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Up till now the AC has been held in boats that were crazy refined examples of technology that already existed, but this one is based on technology that hasn't been invented yet. I hope it works, but if it doesn't its going to be a colossal fuckup. Do they plod around in displacement mode?

Yes they have a tiny (relative) little boat to sail for a few seconds on foils that arnt anything like the real ones (unbalasted) but some shit just doesn't scale.

 

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Plodding and sailing are/were synonymous...beats dead in the water, IMHO. It is what it is, "tactical (vs strategic) flash."

"Black Magic!" NZL 32...sailed, did not fly.

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9 hours ago, BobBill said:

Plodding and sailing are/were synonymous...beats dead in the water, IMHO. It is what it is, "tactical (vs strategic) flash."

"Black Magic!" NZL 32...sailed, did not fly.

Blame it on Uffa Fox!   Proper sail boats should NOT plane downwind. It takes all the tactical fun out of racing.   When the Americas Cup was held in 12 meters, now that was exciting sail boat racing.  There was the heart pounding thrill of watching boats slowly circle each other in the pre-start .....then off they would go in a breath taking crawl upwind while spectators would bite their nails wondering if the boat that led from the start would make a stupid error to allow the boat behind overtake.  

The speed of the modern foiling America's Cup boats with all the boat handling skills and rapid tactical decisions and passing lanes is just a shadow of the thrill of the traditional America's Cup. Thank god there is still Olympic curling every four years for the thrill seeking spectator.  

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2 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

Blame it on Uffa Fox!   Proper sail boats should NOT plane downwind. It takes all the tactical fun out of racing.   When the Americas Cup was held in 12 meters, now that was exciting sail boat racing.  There was the heart pounding thrill of watching boats slowly circle each other in the pre-start .....then off they would go in a breath taking crawl upwind while spectators would bite their nails wondering if the boat that led from the start would make a stupid error to allow the boat behind overtake.  

The speed of the modern foiling America's Cup boats with all the boat handling skills and rapid tactical decisions and passing lanes is just a shadow of the thrill of the traditional America's Cup. Thank god there is still Olympic curling every four years for the thrill seeking spectator.  

i dig your view, however, 12s and so on are not cars or aircraft, the tech improvements notwithstanding. The suble difference is really not so subtle to sailor and aesthetics swabs, like meself.

Poor Uffa...

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On 8/31/2018 at 8:48 AM, billy backstay said:

 

AC should be sailed in TP52's!!

I was gonna say that.

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22 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

When the Americas Cup was held in 12 meters, now that was exciting sail boat racing.

Amen!

This foiling stuff is the marine equivalent of drag racing: virtually no tactics or skill involved.

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4 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Amen!

This foiling stuff is the marine equivalent of drag racing: virtually no tactics or skill involved.

seriously?

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58 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Watching sailboats go slow is more interesting

 

said nobody ever.

Not read these forums much?

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

Watching sailboats go slow is more interesting

 

said nobody ever.

Just for you, brother: “watching sailboats go slow is more interesting”. There, at least one person has said it.

IMHO, ever-increasing speed is not the point of sailboat racing: sailboats will always be slow compared to other forms of transport. Anyone who craves raw speed would do much better to watch hydroplane racing, or better yet the National Air Racing Championships at Reno later this month.

2 hours ago, basketcase said:

seriously?

Seriously.

Boats with hamster crews who perform no significant tactical maneuvers and don’t even execute sail changes are boring.

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7 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Just for you, brother: “watching sailboats go slow is more interesting”. There, at least one person has said it.

IMHO, ever-increasing speed is not the point of sailboat racing: sailboats will always be slow compared to other forms of transport. Anyone who craves raw speed would do much better to watch hydroplane racing, or better yet the National Air Racing Championships at Reno later this month.

Seriously.

Boats with hamster crews who perform no significant tactical maneuvers and don’t even execute sail changes are boring.

and no skill involved. smdh. mate, you have no idea what its like to sail at those speeds. hell have you even done 8 knots? no skill....

but to each his own. just dont try to tell me some one like nathan , or jimmy, or dean have no skill

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svanen +1.

Watching and sailing are not the same. "Slow" "isn't," aboard and helmets are not needed, and as noted, foiling is very akin to drag racing...interesting but...we can pass. Much rather watch 12s, albeit, all starts are fun... 

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49 minutes ago, BobBill said:

Much rather watch 12s, 

The worlds fat chicks thank god for Alcohol and guys like you.

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Go back to the IOR and create a "3 Tonner" class? No computers, basic instruments. Put the tactical/navigational skill back in and.... let the broaches begin.

Blooper on and be excellent to each other.

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On 8/29/2018 at 6:00 PM, bodega87 said:

Video pulled. Not surprisingly. These new boats suck worse than the last round. Why try to reinvent the wheel? Make something competitive that people can understand. Not everyone gives a shit about foils.

I've said it before and I will say it again, the AC has always been sport for the ultra wealthy, the billionaires that come to play at the AC don't give one single fuck about what joe average sailor thinks or if he can relate to the current edition. and not for nothing but everyone said foiling cats would never work either. and yet here we are. 

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Never "went" for "fat" cept for fat boats. Never liked foils much...to complicated and spendy...never bought a ticket to ride...but did some serene on a 12,,,once...hard to not love a fat boat. 

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The worlds fat chicks thank god for Alcohol and guys like you.

JX9V7AkW.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Not read these forums much?

Why would the PA crowd come to the sailing side of the forum. Probably hit the wrong key while trying to clean the spittle off the keyboard and ended up here. 

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37 minutes ago, BobBill said:

Never "went" for "fat" cept for fat boats. Never liked foils much...to complicated and spendy...never bought a ticket to ride...but did some serene on a 12,,,once...hard to not love a fat boat. 

12 meters are a fat boat? At an average length of 20mts most had a beam less than 4 mts so in fact are pretty skinny. 'meter' classes are synonymous with long narrow designs. They were beautiful to look at and great to sail, but watching two of them race in an Americas cup race was about as dull as spectator sport could get. You guys who yearn for the 'glory days' of the great 12 meter match races in the AC, are remembering something that simply rarely if ever happened. Apart from the last race in '83 most AC matches were processions with the lead hardly every changing. There were some great match's in the defender series (Intrepid v Courageous for example) but apart from Resolute v Shamrock IV and 1983 nearly every series has been a whitewash. Until the era of the foiling cats. The 50th match in San Francisco was with out doubt the most competitive and exciting ever. a scoreline of 9-8 and the lead changed in races more often than in every previous AC match combined.

 

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12 hours ago, Svanen said:

Amen!

This foiling stuff is the marine equivalent of drag racing: virtually no tactics or skill involved.

There's always one.  You make a  completely absurd ironic post and someone goes "Amen brother!" :wacko:

To be fair Sven is from Whitby, Yorkshire.  The Whitby Guide lists as #7 on its suggested list of  "Things To Do In Whitby"  to  visit the Falling Foss Tea Room, which it excitedly proclaims is  " the ideal place to have a few minutes and enjoy a cup of tea and a cake"   . 

For a Whitby lad like Sven, watching high speed sail boat racing and understanding the tactics involved is all a bit too fast paced. 12 meter racing is more his cup of tea, second only to : The thrill and tactics of snail racing

 

 

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