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Brent Cummings

J 70 PHRF

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Any hope for a J 70 in PHRF fleets? Especially in lighter winds.? I suspect not. Anyone have any real experience?

How about any J sprit boat? Up against J29's and J 35's. Windward leeward always. Light wind almost always. 

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no direct experience myself, but as observed from another class on the course, in the light, they don't seem to compete against the Vipers and Melges 24s

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We do primarily point to point racing in a handicap fleet with our J/70 and find it to be slow upwind due to the small class jib. We are giving time to boats with genoas and longer waterlines and I think the boat struggles to be competitive in light air conditions. The boat is always fast downwind or if the breeze picks up. You can carry the spinnaker upwind in light air like a Code 0 which helps tremendously. Had much better luck with our J/80 with a genoa and will likely go back to it next year.

We also purchased a Code 0 but didn't find it to be particularly fast or useful. We also tried a Mylar PHRF jib that was supposed to be cut a little fuller and have a little more sail area in the roach but it was not as fast as the class jib.

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Also interested in the J70 but cant get my head around the fact that my Hot Foot 20 has the same upwind sail area. My Hot Foot only weighs 1000lb. The J70 is narrower and has 1.5 ft more waterline but also weighs nearly 800 lbs more. Up wind in light and moderate breeze I just cant see the J70 faster than my Hot Foot. Up wind I have trouble in the light stuff against the longer waterlines with the same rating such as  well sailed S2 7.9s and J24s. I like the looks of The J70 and the opportunuty for one design racing if I travel but I think it must suck in PHRF.

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IMHO the 70 needs about a meter taller mast. Seems way underpowered (and overpriced), but hey, you cannot argue against numbers. They have big fleets outside of the PNW. Sucks that 70s are relegated to racing PHRF in so many areas.

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Though this is true for many, if not most OD boats.  I owned/raced a J-24 in PHRF in Pensacola back in the late 80s when I as in flight school, as there was no OD fleet there.  If racing OD is your thing, then you need to buy into whatever fleet exists (if one exists) where you live, or be willing to travel.  Or just go out and race your boat and have fun in PHRF, and don't get all wrapped up in winning.

I owned and raced a J/109 on the Chesapeake in the 2003-2006 timeframe, when there was no fleet there...so raced it in PHRF aslo (I wasn't buying it as an OD boat)

The other thing big health fleets and big numbers generally bring better resale values, so you do have that going for you 

In light winds the J/70 might have a chance.  If the bigger, heavier boats are sailing at hull speed upwind, and have to sail hotter angles downwind to create some apparent wind, you might could do pretty good.  I used to sail on a friends FT 7.5, and if it was light, we were very competitive with the bigger PHRF boats even on W/L.  Plus the shorter the course more advantaged we were, as boat would out accelerate, and needed less crew movement to complete maneuvers...once the wind was up enough for them to reach hull speed upwind, and sail deep downwind, it was much tougher...

On random leg courses that had a tight reach where we could fly the asym and they were still flying jibs, well that was like Christmas coming early!

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No J/70 experience.  But other J sprit boats are not great at W/L phrf racing in my experience.  I would not consider a sprit boat for W/L unless you can not get/train a bow person for sym chutes.  If you must have an asym boat, Vipers and Melges 24s are less than half the price.

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A J/70 races PHRF in our Wednesday night races. On the Chesapeake so light winds are common. The boat does not seem to do well in light conditions compared to the rest of the fleet. The Melges 24 do much better.

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A single boat is a pretty small sample set.  Wonder what would happen if the crews of the Melges and J traded boats?

Not saying the J/70 is a great PHRF boat...just wondering how much is boat, and how much is crew

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2 hours ago, Crash said:

A single boat is a pretty small sample set.  Wonder what would happen if the crews of the Melges and J traded boats?

Not saying the J/70 is a great PHRF boat...just wondering how much is boat, and how much is crew

Not all the Melges are well-sailed, shall we say, and still do better than the J/70 in light air it seems. Heavier air the J/70 seems to be more on par with Melges.

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Fair enough.  Only test sailed a J/70, and have never sailed the Melges, so my opinion is probably not worth too much :lol:

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