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nhl '19

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yup. bruins outshot them by  a wide margin but most of the shots weren't dangerous and when they did get a dangerous chance...binnigton.

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Seems like it was a pretty penalty free game as well....or the ref's let em go...............

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Both.

The refs let the small stuff slide, and because the players all knew that one PP could turn the game there was no big stuff.

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27 minutes ago, Figment said:

Both.

The refs let the small stuff slide, and because the players all knew that one PP could turn the game there was no big stuff.

I looked up the stats..........only ONE penalty assessed and that was against Blues for "Delay of Game". I don't think I've ever seen that before............you must be right.......

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Results from final round ...

1. Chester    7

2. Hard Aground    6

everyone else 0.

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So.............an American team won the Stanley Cup and a Canadian team took the NBA championship.................things get curiouser and curiouser...........

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Total Results for 2019 SA NHL Playoffs ...

1. Dyslexic Dog - 49
2. Chester - 44
3. Mike - 36
4. Hard Aground - 35
5. Peacefrog - 21
6. Figment - 13
7. Tax Man - 12
8. Keith - 0

9. Forever Slow - 0

 

I think that the spread between Dyslexic Dog, Chester, and the rest of us was the widest in three years.

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19 minutes ago, Point Break said:

So.............an American team won the Stanley Cup and a Canadian team took the NBA championship.................things get curiouser and curiouser...........

Agreed with the Raptors, but the last time a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup was 26 years ago when the Habs beat the Kings. Given the number of Canadian teams in the NHL, this is statistically improbable with even a 20% bulge away from team parity, and since the lockout and the salary cap about twenty years ago, the NHL's parity is closer to 5%.

The analysis that seems to make the most sense to why Canadian teams aren't bringing home the Cup is because of the "nationalist" agenda of Canadian NHL teams. Canadian hockey fans want to see hometown heroes on the ice, and possibly with each shift, it's what fills seats, sells beer and drives TV views. So American teams are free to staff lines with players from anywhere, like Russia, Finland, Sweden and Czech Republic as their strategies demand. Americans don't seem to give a rat's ass that the star wing is Canadian or Finnish. But the Canadian teams try to edge Canadian players into lines where they may not be ideal. Some teams have had notorious foot-shooting incidents with this, like the Leafs.

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Agreed with the Raptors, but the last time a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup was 26 years ago when the Habs beat the Kings. Given the number of Canadian teams in the NHL, this is statistically improbable with even a 20% bulge away from team parity, and since the lockout and the salary cap about twenty years ago, the NHL's parity is closer to 5%.

The analysis that seems to make the most sense to why Canadian teams aren't bringing home the Cup is because of the "nationalist" agenda of Canadian NHL teams. Canadian hockey fans want to see hometown heroes on the ice, and possibly with each shift, it's what fills seats, sells beer and drives TV views. So American teams are free to staff third, second and even first lines with players from anywhere, like Russia, Finland, Sweden and Czech Republic as their strategies demand, Americans don't seem to give a rat's ass that the star wing is Canadian or Finnish. But the Canadian teams try to edge Canadian players into lines where they may not be ideal. Some teams have had notorious foot-shooting incidents with this, like the Leafs.

Dude....don't harsh my mellow.........

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4 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Dude....don't harsh my mellow.........

Sorry, the stat is really weird though ... since the Habs' win 26 years ago, there have only been 4 Canadian team finalists to the Cup, even though there are 7 Canadian teams (adjusted for Atlanta's move to Winnipeg) out of a field of 31 teams. Statistically, this just should never happen unless there are some really corrosive forces at work in Canadian hockey.

Honestly, I think the whole NHL needs to be realigned again after Bettman's disaster from a few years ago, and one team needs to be added. We messed up a decent thing because Detroit didn't like the 2 hour time shift, even though they dominated the West. If the NHL doesn't do something, the NHL's slide is going to get even steeper. I would like to see a symmetrical realignment. A symmetrical realignment would get rid of the wild cards, and the silly 7 vs. 8 team playoffs.

The alignment below would make NHL so much better, in my opinion. And it would finally make peace with NHL's violent takeover of the WHL so many decades ago. The symmetry would allow the bestest part of all, a bunch of mini-cups within the Stanley Cup playoffs. So the losers of each round could compete in East-West mini-cups, the Shamrock All-Canada Cup, the Ocean Cup of Atlantic-Pacific, Central-West vs. Central-East, and Metropolitan vs. Rustic.

It would be so fucking awesome that my teeth hurt right now just thinking about it.

 

NHL EASTERN DIVISION

CANADA EAST
Leafs
Habs
Sens
Nordiques (expansion team)

ATLANTIC
Buffalo
Wings
Pens
Flyers

CENTRAL EAST
Lightning
Panthers
Canes
Caps

METROPOLITAN
Devils
Rangers
Bruins
Islanders

 

NHL WESTERN DIVISION

CANADA WEST
Flames
Oilers
Cannucks
Jets

PACIFIC
LA
Sharks
Ducks
Vegas

CENTRAL WEST
Jackets
Nashville
Blues
Hawks

RUSTIC
Dallas
Avs
Arizona
Wild

 

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8 hours ago, Point Break said:

So.............an American team won the Stanley Cup and a Canadian team took the NBA championship.................things get curiouser and curiouser...........

Si amigo,

An American team full of Canadians, and a Canadian team full of Americans...;)

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All I want changed in the NHL is, the stupid lines in the corners where the goalies cant play the puck......<_<

its gotta go...

Who doesn't want to see a goalie throw an amazing pass to the breaking player at the other blue line...:)

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On 6/14/2019 at 11:54 AM, Point Break said:

So.............an American team won the Stanley Cup and a Canadian team took the NBA championship.................things get curiouser and curiouser...........

And most of the players on the American team were Canadian while most on the Canadian team were American! The blues were the most Canadian team in the league last year by nationality. 

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On 6/14/2019 at 2:56 PM, mikewof said:

Sorry, the stat is really weird though ... since the Habs' win 26 years ago, there have only been 4 Canadian team finalists to the Cup, even though there are 7 Canadian teams (adjusted for Atlanta's move to Winnipeg) out of a field of 31 teams. Statistically, this just should never happen unless there are some really corrosive forces at work in Canadian hockey.

Honestly, I think the whole NHL needs to be realigned again after Bettman's disaster from a few years ago, and one team needs to be added. We messed up a decent thing because Detroit didn't like the 2 hour time shift, even though they dominated the West. If the NHL doesn't do something, the NHL's slide is going to get even steeper. I would like to see a symmetrical realignment. A symmetrical realignment would get rid of the wild cards, and the silly 7 vs. 8 team playoffs.

The alignment below would make NHL so much better, in my opinion. And it would finally make peace with NHL's violent takeover of the WHL so many decades ago. The symmetry would allow the bestest part of all, a bunch of mini-cups within the Stanley Cup playoffs. So the losers of each round could compete in East-West mini-cups, the Shamrock All-Canada Cup, the Ocean Cup of Atlantic-Pacific, Central-West vs. Central-East, and Metropolitan vs. Rustic.

It would be so fucking awesome that my teeth hurt right now just thinking about it.

 

NHL EASTERN DIVISION

CANADA EAST
Leafs
Habs
Sens
Nordiques (expansion team)

ATLANTIC
Buffalo
Wings
Pens
Flyers

CENTRAL EAST
Lightning
Panthers
Canes
Caps

METROPOLITAN
Devils
Rangers
Bruins
Islanders

 

NHL WESTERN DIVISION

CANADA WEST
Flames
Oilers
Cannucks
Jets

PACIFIC
LA
Sharks
Ducks
Vegas

CENTRAL WEST
Jackets
Nashville
Blues
Hawks

RUSTIC
Dallas
Avs
Arizona
Wild

 

I dunno. I put the blue jackets in instead of the wings in the Atlantic division (I’d also rename it). 

And your rustic group puts a lot of travel time in for Minnesota. 

 

Your mini-cup idea sounds vaguely like an argument I read  for every MLB team getting a shot at the playoffs. 

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10 hours ago, mgs said:

I dunno. I put the blue jackets in instead of the wings in the Atlantic division (I’d also rename it). 

And your rustic group puts a lot of travel time in for Minnesota. 

 

Your mini-cup idea sounds vaguely like an argument I read  for every MLB team getting a shot at the playoffs. 

I don't know of a way to avoid travel for some outlier teams, but Detroit holds the deal-killer on realignment, our current situation was partly due to Detroit's insistence that they didn't want to travel so much in the Western conference. Now they're essentially still a Western team that has to play Eastern hockey, and their era of dominant "reloading" is done for now.

MLB is the opposite of NHL because there is so little parity in MLB, given the lack of salary cap. One-game "cups" are popular in the NHL like the Winter Classic, and Quebec needs a team.

As far as travel, Edmonton logs some insane travel hours, and I've never heard a complaint out of them about it. The American teams are sometimes pansies with the travel ... the distance from Minnesota to Dallas is only about 15% longer than Denver to Dallas, and it's still less than Edmonton to Vancouver. The real outlier there is Winnipeg, but c'est la vie ... if the NHL can't handle western travel distances, then they shouldn't have murdered the Western Hockey League by capturing Gretzky. 

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10 hours ago, mikewof said:

I don't know of a way to avoid travel for some outlier teams, but Detroit holds the deal-killer on realignment, our current situation was partly due to Detroit's insistence that they didn't want to travel so much in the Western conference. Now they're essentially still a Western team that has to play Eastern hockey, and their era of dominant "reloading" is done for now.

MLB is the opposite of NHL because there is so little parity in MLB, given the lack of salary cap. One-game "cups" are popular in the NHL like the Winter Classic, and Quebec needs a team.

As far as travel, Edmonton logs some insane travel hours, and I've never heard a complaint out of them about it. The American teams are sometimes pansies with the travel ... the distance from Minnesota to Dallas is only about 15% longer than Denver to Dallas, and it's still less than Edmonton to Vancouver. The real outlier there is Winnipeg, but c'est la vie ... if the NHL can't handle western travel distances, then they shouldn't have murdered the Western Hockey League by capturing Gretzky. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23244608/radical-ideas-series-every-mlb-team-made-playoffs?platform=amp

this is what I was thinking of.

also I think you mean Quebec needs another hockey team. Hamilton, on the other hand, thinks they need one. 

The WHL was before my time, but I thought Gretzky joined because of an age issue, too young to play in the nhl or something 

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2 hours ago, mgs said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23244608/radical-ideas-series-every-mlb-team-made-playoffs?platform=amp

this is what I was thinking of.

also I think you mean Quebec needs another hockey team. Hamilton, on the other hand, thinks they need one. 

The WHL was before my time, but I thought Gretzky joined because of an age issue, too young to play in the nhl or something 

Quebec lost the Nordiques to Denver in part because of the separatism movement up there, the ownership was concerned that the team would lose value. Getting a second French team is kind of important to me, I used to listen to the French NHL broadcasts on an AM radio skip. The Habs now have their French simulcast on the internet stream.

Back when Gretzky was lighting up Edmonton, they were a WHL team, along with the Cunucks, the Portland Buckaroos, Seattle Totems and Denver Spurs, among others. (My memory may fail me on some of these names, but I remember my Spurs fondly.) The Flames were still in Atlanta, but Denver later got their farm team.

The NHL kept coming up with comically higher bids to move Gretzky into the NHL, but the WHL owners nixed it every time, he was too valuable at the ticket office to every city he visited. It's hard to imagine it now, but at any given moment, Gretz would have at least one assigned defender/goon, sometimes too. He could practically handle the lines on his own, like an adult playing with a flock of Mighty Mites.

Finally the NHL agreed to buy a chunk of the NHL (Edmonton and Vancouver) to get Gretzky, possibly as a hostile takeover, though that isn't too clear. That pretty much disemboweled the remaining WHL teams, and the NHL then spent the next few decades (even as recently as the Vegas Knights) pushing westward.

But oddly, Gretzky was never actually drafted by the NHL, he was ACQUIRED by the NHL in a takeover, built from the ground up to capture a single player.

Every sport has its own Great Ones, but Gretzky was so much The Great One that he triggered a hostile corporate takeover.

The NHL has never made peace with Western hockey and the tighter play that tends to happen out West, imo.

As for the MLB, that whole gently corroding sport would probably benefit from a salary cap.

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The whole regional-realignment thing is tough for most of the league to really care about, I think.    The western teams will forever be fucked by travel times and broadcast times, and the Atlantic and Metro divisions will forever be bus-trips.

The notion of making exclusively-canadian divisions is interesting, but I dunno that it really matters.

Actual rule changes affect everyone and are a bit more engaging.

I loathe dump-and-chase so I'm ok with eliminating the no-touch zones for the goalies.   The idea of disallowing line changes when the goalie freezes a shot which originated in neutral zone is good I think.  The idea of eliminating the icing-exemption for PK is intriguing, I'd love to see that tested in some lower-leagues.  The idea of the PP team choosing the first faceoff location is interesting and the broadcasters will love having something else to talk about but the actual impact has to be infinitesimal.

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3 hours ago, Figment said:

The whole regional-realignment thing is tough for most of the league to really care about, I think.    The western teams will forever be fucked by travel times and broadcast times, and the Atlantic and Metro divisions will forever be bus-trips.

The notion of making exclusively-canadian divisions is interesting, but I dunno that it really matters.

Actual rule changes affect everyone and are a bit more engaging.

I loathe dump-and-chase so I'm ok with eliminating the no-touch zones for the goalies.   The idea of disallowing line changes when the goalie freezes a shot which originated in neutral zone is good I think.  The idea of eliminating the icing-exemption for PK is intriguing, I'd love to see that tested in some lower-leagues.  The idea of the PP team choosing the first faceoff location is interesting and the broadcasters will love having something else to talk about but the actual impact has to be infinitesimal.

Do you know anything about the proposed regular season tie-breaker rule change? Are the fiddling with the SO again?

For realignment, the problem now is that some divisions have more teams than others. The playoff system is inherently unbalanced. I understand why they had to do it, but it needs to be fixed.

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  • If team about to go on the power play ices the puck, it will still begin the man-advantage with a face-off in the offensive zone.
  • A team that knocks off the net (accidentally or on purpose) leading to a stoppage will not be allowed a line change. The opposing team will be able to pick which offensive zone circle they want to use to take the ensuing face-off.
  • If a goalie knocks off the net on breakaway, it will result in an automatic goal for the attacking team.
  • If a shot on goal from outside the red line results in a frozen puck, there will be no line change allowed.
  • A player who loses his helmet will have to go to the bench or put the helmet back on properly before participating in play. The only exception is an immediate play on the puck. If a helmetless player makes a play on the puck, it will result in a minor penalty. (The chin strap does not need be done up.)
  • The coach's challenge will be expanded to include reviews for black-and-white missed calls that should have resulted in a stoppage (hand passes, pucks in netting, high sticks) before a goal in the offensive zone. 
  • Any unsuccessful coach's challenge will result in a minor penalty for delay of game. A second unsuccessful challenge will result in a double minor.
  • Referees are required to review all major penalties to confirm the penalty classification. Majors can be changed to minor penalties, but they cannot be rescinded altogether.
  • Referees can rescind a double minor for high sticking if it's determined the high stick came from a teammate. 

this is all kinda "meh". 

The long shot/frozen/line change thing seems minimally impactful from the red line.   I was expecting it to be from the blue line.

The helmet thing is kinda long-overdue common sense stuff, and the rest is just about making the right call in the end.    Nothing juicy IMHO.

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On 6/16/2019 at 9:31 PM, mikewof said:

Quebec lost the Nordiques to Denver in part because of the separatism movement up there, the ownership was concerned that the team would lose value. Getting a second French team is kind of important to me, I used to listen to the French NHL broadcasts on an AM radio skip. The Habs now have their French simulcast on the internet stream.

Back when Gretzky was lighting up Edmonton, they were a WHL team, along with the Cunucks, the Portland Buckaroos, Seattle Totems and Denver Spurs, among others. (My memory may fail me on some of these names, but I remember my Spurs fondly.) The Flames were still in Atlanta, but Denver later got their farm team.

The NHL kept coming up with comically higher bids to move Gretzky into the NHL, but the WHL owners nixed it every time, he was too valuable at the ticket office to every city he visited. It's hard to imagine it now, but at any given moment, Gretz would have at least one assigned defender/goon, sometimes too. He could practically handle the lines on his own, like an adult playing with a flock of Mighty Mites.

Finally the NHL agreed to buy a chunk of the NHL (Edmonton and Vancouver) to get Gretzky, possibly as a hostile takeover, though that isn't too clear. That pretty much disemboweled the remaining WHL teams, and the NHL then spent the next few decades (even as recently as the Vegas Knights) pushing westward.

But oddly, Gretzky was never actually drafted by the NHL, he was ACQUIRED by the NHL in a takeover, built from the ground up to capture a single player.

Every sport has its own Great Ones, but Gretzky was so much The Great One that he triggered a hostile corporate takeover.

The NHL has never made peace with Western hockey and the tighter play that tends to happen out West, imo.

As for the MLB, that whole gently corroding sport would probably benefit from a salary cap.

You need a better source for your hockey history.

Gretzky played for Edmonton in the WHA, not the WHL.  The WHL was farm teams and folded in 74, the WHA was full on major pro trying to compete with the NHL.  The WHA owners finally gave up in the late 70's with most teams folding but Winnipeg, Edmonton, Quebec and Hartford transitioning to the NHL.  The WHA was not viable as a going concern, the option was everyone shut down, or try and transition some teams.  It was not a hostile takeover, it was an upstart league dying a whimpering death, kind of like the USFL.

The WHL Canucks got an NHL expansion charter in 70 as part of the second six team expansion phase.  A number of the WHL players remained on the team after the transition, including my father-in-law.

 

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5 hours ago, Tax Man said:

You need a better source for your hockey history.

Gretzky played for Edmonton in the WHA, not the WHL.  The WHL was farm teams and folded in 74, the WHA was full on major pro trying to compete with the NHL.  The WHA owners finally gave up in the late 70's with most teams folding but Winnipeg, Edmonton, Quebec and Hartford transitioning to the NHL.  The WHA was not viable as a going concern, the option was everyone shut down, or try and transition some teams.  It was not a hostile takeover, it was an upstart league dying a whimpering death, kind of like the USFL.

The WHL Canucks got an NHL expansion charter in 70 as part of the second six team expansion phase.  A number of the WHL players remained on the team after the transition, including my father-in-law.

 

That explains it, thank you. I wonder if I ever saw your FIL play ... I remember the Vancuouver Canucks playing my beloved Denver Spurs, somewhere in my childhood, I remember because I was terrified of Johnny Canuck, he might as well have been the Boogeyman. It was this weird logo, with Johnny Canuck the lumberjack, running through the forest carrying a hockey stick.

Normally, that would have been no more threatening to me that the STP Roadrunner.

But it was a weird time in Denver hockey back then. Denver was an economically tragic area, the economy had been broken by the Texas oil industry, or sometimes enriched, almost a cruel joke by how much Texans hated Coloradoans, they had the means to destroy our economy and did so often. So we would pile into the Mercury Comet station wagon and go to watch Denver Spurs hockey, or even more likely, watch the Denver Spurs to their practices, because that was free, and the game tickets cost a couple of bucks that my mom was unwilling to spend. Their practice facility was just a couple of miles from my house, behind one of the most modern movie theaters in Denver, I think it was called The Continental. Not a giant box of 8 different theater rooms, but one big hall, with one movie. It was a modern building, like something that fell from a Presbyterian Heaven onto our suburban paradise. It was next to the Valley Highway, which was renamed "I-25" by the Californians and Midwesterners who moved here, in compliance with President Eisenhower's remarkable abilities on the golf course. (To this day, I am convinced that Ike's abilities on the golf course were beyond any human who had ever lived, and in order to keep him from throwing their handicaps, the architects of the Twentieth Century threw into into jobs like General and President just to keep him on the course.)

So there was Denver, this increasingly broken town. The Continental Theater had even taken to showing Speedy Gonzales films to hundreds of YMCA kids (like me). I remember they once scored a big movie, I think it was a James Bond film, and to promote it they brought in a little Cessna 180-something, and parked it right in front of the doors to get into the theater. Fire codes be damned, they were going to make sure that every Speedy Gonzalez prisoner who entered their theater ran home and begged their parents to take them to see a James Bond flick. So we were broken, and that was just the way it was back then, but when the Spurs played, they just lit the fucking place up. Originally, I think the Spurs were supposed to leave the WHL (or whatever they renamed that league, thanks for the correction) as an NHL expansion, but it was probably just the NHL making empty promises to break the back of the WHL (or whatever they renamed that league.).

In reality, that riot between the Denver Spurs fans and Canucks fans might have been little more than a multi-fan punch up common to East Colfax at the time. But it wasn't in front of a bar, it was in a parking lot at a suburban hockey practice facility and that made the Canucks all the more terrifying.

It's funny now when Americans claim how unobtrusive and friendly are the Canadians. That wasn't a reality that I knew in Colorado in the 1970s. Canadians were the most terrifying, ruthless humans on the planet to my eyes. They came from their great frozen wastelands of the North, and they laid bare to our tiny decaying hamlet. Gretzky did that too. The Oilers could control Denver on any side of the ice at any given time because they had a bullet that was constantly in the chamber and aimed at our goal. Gretzky scored at will. He was the Dwight Eisenhower of the surface. If he scored six goals in a game, it was because he wanted to score six goals in a game, and not twenty six goals in that game. If he broke three records that season, it was because he only chose to break three records in that season, and not all of the records in that season. The Canucks fans kicked our asses, but The Great One ate our soul.

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