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Brent Cummings

J29 or J27

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Our little club is establishing a small J29 fleet. Five so far. Maybe a sixth. I guess it makes sense for me to get one too but it doesn’t really excite me to. The boats are all old and gross that I’ve seen. Seems like little chance to resell when the time comes. I almost get the impression they are disposable boats. And with the different configurations they’re not exactly one design. Plus they’re just big enough I may not be able to legally tow the boat home to my yard at season end which I’d really like to do  

So what about a J 27? Does it sail to its rating well enough to compete with the 29’s? It’s lighter and has a beam of 8.5 feet. So I can legally tow her home myself with a half ton truck. They’re also a bit newer so I assume in a bit better shape. Maybe easier to resell when time comes? Also hoping to get away with 5 or 6 crew for racing. I figure I’d need at least one more on the 29?

Anyway, your thoughts? Stupid consideration if the club has five 29’salready?  Do any of my reasons carry enough weight to consider the 27?  

Any other good PHRF boats to consider that would match up well against the J 29’s. Thanks folks. 

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27...Cheap Speed...way cheaper to buy, transport and fund a program.  Race competetivly with 4 crew...old class rules were 1,100 lbs

I was pacing a J35 downwind in 20 knots this summer...likes anything over 5 knots of air.  Base PHRF Rating of 120

I had the same questions when I bought mine 16 years ago... still haven't found a better boat bang for buck and can sell it today for what I paid for it in 2002

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How bad do you want to sail OD ? 

Thing with any used boat is the actual boat you are considering - as you note, none of these are new boats anymore.

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Both boats are getting on the old side but have also held up pretty well. I had the 27 and cannot say enough good things about the boat. Both can have some really disgusting interiors, mine was no exception. But the interiors are real simple. Pull everything out, scrub or power wash, paint the fiberglass and varnish the little bit of wood, it will look great. 

While I love the 27, if you have 5-6 boats / friends that want to race one design, go that direction. If not that important, the 27 will sail to its PHRF rating or better in most conditions and is an easier all around boat.

I was in the same spot when I purchased the 27. Lots of 29's around my area and almost no 27's but the 27 checked more boxes on my list. Don't regret buying the 27. And as Andrew said they hold their value and really don't stay on the market long.

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On 9/15/2018 at 2:11 PM, Great Red Shark said:

How bad do you want to sail OD ? 

Thing with any used boat is the actual boat you are considering - as you note, none of these are new boats anymore.

J29s are not exactly one design with choices like masthead or fractional rig, inboard or outboard.

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Brent you have me interested now!  J22_MooringWeb-71-913-470-100-c.jpg.afec1699d8dfb956bf83ca89e72216bd.jpg

Class website listed by Jboats does not work ----  http://www.j27.org/ 

The question of is it better solo compared to a J22 assuming that the owner outfits the J27 with a roller furled jib?  Got to sit forward of the traveler on the 27 so... what is your opinion compared to the 22?   My take is that I am sitting up against that winch and it looks good to me!  Am I missing something?  

I would put some Velcro down next to the winch on either side to attach a normal throw cushion.   

I agree about finding a 29 in great shape.  I was on hull 3 or 7 (Can't Remember) when the 29 first came out.  I very, very much liked the boat and still do. But.... condition worries me.  I see some 27s for sale that appear to be in great shape at very fair prices.  

 

 

J27_deck-358-913-470-100-c.jpg

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What about a J92?  Rates level with the MHOB J29 on Lake Michigan.  Roller furler.  Sprit boat.  Slugs on the mainsail luff.  Completely different price range, but you get what you pay for.

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2 hours ago, Kent H said:

HA!  I posted the above post in the wrong J/27 thread..... However,  I agree about one important item and that is resale.  I think a J27 with no moisture issues is a great idea at the right price.   

Sorry!

 

 

 

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I think the OP would be insane not to buy a 29 considering there are 5-6 others at his club. The 29 and 27 are vastly different boats with different missions.

If you sail in a breezy venue with lots of chop and don't mind amassing a crew of 7-8 guys every week the 29 is pretty unstoppable. Its deck space is enormous, with super wide side decks. The 27 is a much smaller boat for crew, not as comfortable for sure, but it requires less crew and your sail budget will be smaller as well. 

Good 29's do come up for sale. Big Taz was for sale recently in RI.......that was a competetive boat. 

Of all the 29's at your club, are they all the same configuration? 

There's a huge fleet of frac 29's up in Nova Scotia. Very competetive fleet and I'm sure a few of those boats must come up for sale occasionally.  

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1 hour ago, Squalamax said:

I think the OP would be insane not to buy a 29 considering there are 5-6 others at his club. The 29 and 27 are vastly different boats with different missions.

If you sail in a breezy venue with lots of chop and don't mind amassing a crew of 7-8 guys every week the 29 is pretty unstoppable. Its deck space is enormous, with super wide side decks. The 27 is a much smaller boat for crew, not as comfortable for sure, but it requires less crew and your sail budget will be smaller as well. 

Good 29's do come up for sale. Big Taz was for sale recently in RI.......that was a competetive boat. 

Of all the 29's at your club, are they all the same configuration? 

There's a huge fleet of frac 29's up in Nova Scotia. Very competetive fleet and I'm sure a few of those boats must come up for sale occasionally.  

Well you've brought up some good points. But,  I dont sail in a breezy venue. And I dont have 7-8 guys for crew. More like 5. Hoping to snag at least one more regular for next year. I believe all or most of the 29's have come from that Nova Scotia fleet. And no they are not all the same configuration. There is one more left for sale there but it did not survey well.  I've inquired about a few in New England including Big TAz but have gotten no response from any brokers. Business must be good I guess. And as I said in the original post. I put a decent value on being able to tow my boat to my house. Cant do that with the J29. So call me crazy but Im leaning to the J27. 

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18 minutes ago, Brent Cummings said:

Well you've brought up some good points. But,  I dont sail in a breezy venue. And I dont have 7-8 guys for crew. More like 5. Hoping to snag at least one more regular for next year. I believe all or most of the 29's have come from that Nova Scotia fleet. And no they are not all the same configuration. There is one more left for sale there but it did not survey well.  I've inquired about a few in New England including Big TAz but have gotten no response from any brokers. Business must be good I guess. And as I said in the original post. I put a decent value on being able to tow my boat to my house. Cant do that with the J29. So call me crazy but Im leaning to the J27. 

To add to Squalamax, they are not difficult to trailer around, I have been trailering mine around since 1996, 15 times to KW all the way to Watertown NY, Only stopped once for permits at the Delaware bridge, had to pull of to the side and go inside and buy a permit for $15. Been stopped for speeding and No right on red, never questioned about the boat.

The boat is unbeatable in most conditions except 5 knots or less off the wind.

 

Some good ones do come on the market, even the fastest one in the country HUSTLER which is mine will be.

With trailer, new H#1, spare boom, spare carbon pole.

The boat will be for sale last week of June 2019 after BIRW

And yes I will buy an add here then.  

  

 

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2 hours ago, Brent Cummings said:

Well you've brought up some good points. But,  I dont sail in a breezy venue. And I dont have 7-8 guys for crew. More like 5. Hoping to snag at least one more regular for next year. I believe all or most of the 29's have come from that Nova Scotia fleet. And no they are not all the same configuration. There is one more left for sale there but it did not survey well.  I've inquired about a few in New England including Big TAz but have gotten no response from any brokers. Business must be good I guess. And as I said in the original post. I put a decent value on being able to tow my boat to my house. Cant do that with the J29. So call me crazy but Im leaning to the J27. 

If they came from the NS fleet they are all frac rigs at least. They had a couple MH's up there, but the rest are fracs.(over 25 boats in that fleet) Not sure about IB/OB configuration though. I trailer my 29 home and have up and down the east coast of America. We've been to KWRW( 2 times), Charleston RW(3 times), Annapolis NOODS(3 times), and once out to Detroit NOODS on Lake St Claire. I've never been stopped either. 

Hustler is for sale just in time for you to salvage 1/2 your sailing season next year. Buy it and kick ass at your club. Unless you DON'T want to sail OD........... 

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

To add to Squalamax, they are not difficult to trailer around, I have been trailering mine around since 1996, 15 times to KW all the way to Watertown NY, Only stopped once for permits at the Delaware bridge, had to pull of to the side and go inside and buy a permit for $15. Been stopped for speeding and No right on red, never questioned about the boat.

The boat is unbeatable in most conditions except 5 knots or less off the wind.

 

Some good ones do come on the market, even the fastest one in the country HUSTLER which is mine will be.

With trailer, new H#1, spare boom, spare carbon pole.

The boat will be for sale last week of June 2019 after BIRW

And yes I will buy an add here then.  

  

 

This is what Espo is talking about not being good in 5 knots or less off the wind......https://yachtscoring.com/emenu.cfm?eID=5876

 

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2 hours ago, jesposito said:

To add to Squalamax, they are not difficult to trailer around, I have been trailering mine around since 1996, 15 times to KW all the way to Watertown NY, Only stopped once for permits at the Delaware bridge, had to pull of to the side and go inside and buy a permit for $15. Been stopped for speeding and No right on red, never questioned about the boat.

The boat is unbeatable in most conditions except 5 knots or less off the wind.

 

Some good ones do come on the market, even the fastest one in the country HUSTLER which is mine will be.

With trailer, new H#1, spare boom, spare carbon pole.

The boat will be for sale last week of June 2019 after BIRW

And yes I will buy an add here then.  

  

 

Make a deal with Espo before block and pick it up there. He doesn’t drive so it’s a great opportunity for you too drive the boat and learn the boat over a week of racing with him as crew

....or for a boat in better shape with newer sails, gear, etc make squalamax an offer  It may  not have 30 years worth  of pickle dishes but probably the most successful 29 still actively racing 

 

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3 hours ago, jesposito said:

To add to Squalamax, they are not difficult to trailer around, I have been trailering mine around since 1996, 15 times to KW all the way to Watertown NY, Only stopped once for permits at the Delaware bridge, had to pull of to the side and go inside and buy a permit for $15. Been stopped for speeding and No right on red, never questioned about the boat.

The boat is unbeatable in most conditions except 5 knots or less off the wind.

 

Some good ones do come on the market, even the fastest one in the country HUSTLER which is mine will be.

With trailer, new H#1, spare boom, spare carbon pole.

The boat will be for sale last week of June 2019 after BIRW

And yes I will buy an add here then.  

  

 

Might as well throw me a number then. Might be worth my while waiting for it.

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44 minutes ago, crashtestdummy said:

Make a deal with Espo before block and pick it up there. He doesn’t drive so it’s a great opportunity for you too drive the boat and learn the boat over a week of racing with him as crew

....or for a boat in better shape with newer sails, gear, etc make squalamax an offer  It may  not have 30 years worth  of pickle dishes but probably the most successful 29 still actively racing 

 

 

44 minutes ago, crashtestdummy said:

Make a deal with Espo before block and pick it up there. He doesn’t drive so it’s a great opportunity for you too drive the boat and learn the boat over a week of racing with him as crew

....or for a boat in better shape with newer sails, gear, etc make squalamax an offer  It may  not have 30 years worth  of pickle dishes but probably the most successful 29 still actively racing 

 

 

1 hour ago, Squalamax said:

This is what Espo is talking about not being good in 5 knots or less off the wind......https://yachtscoring.com/emenu.cfm?eID=5876

 

Just don't look at this years BBR results.

Not sure that Seefest is in better shape, with newer gear, since you have no idea what I upgraded, the sail MAY be better 

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3 hours ago, Squalamax said:

If they came from the NS fleet they are all frac rigs at least. They had a couple MH's up there, but the rest are fracs.(over 25 boats in that fleet) Not sure about IB/OB configuration though. I trailer my 29 home and have up and down the east coast of America. We've been to KWRW( 2 times), Charleston RW(3 times), Annapolis NOODS(3 times), and once out to Detroit NOODS on Lake St Claire. I've never been stopped either. 

Hustler is for sale just in time for you to salvage 1/2 your sailing season next year. Buy it and kick ass at your club. Unless you DON'T want to sail OD........... 

Not sure then what they are. 3 are rated 114. 1 is rated 120. The other isn’t in the water yet. Just assumed the mastheads were rated lower. But maybe it’s because they have outboards and the one rated 120 has the inboard. 

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Brent,

Both are great boats.  Both have conditions in which they do well, and a smaller set in which they don't do as well as other boats...but that can be said for most boats, so its only a dis-qualifier if that the set of conditions that is predominant where you sail.

As has been said, both can be towed, typically with no issues.  J-29 not technically legally...but that doesn't mean you'll ever get stopped, unless your tow rig is horribly unsafe looking.

They are all built the same way, so all can suffer water getting in the core.  As a broad and general statement, J-29s might have been raced harder/put away wetter, but there are a lot more that were built, so you should be able to find a good one.

So to me, it all comes down to crew numbers.  To be equally competitive on either boats, you'll need 2-3 more bodies on a J-29.

Crash

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