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Shootist Jeff

A series of questions for Jocal.... Feel free to play along

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1 hour ago, jocal505 said:

You carry a violent mental framework, supporting the casual, institutional violence of others.

You train others in the violent arts, as well. You told us you are a certified range instructor, correct? You got training for that certification, correct? Tell us a bit about that.

Would you be happier if new gun owners received no training? 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Would you be happier if new gun owners received no training? 

Well, Range Instructor Jeff coaches in a school for pre-conditioning not just violence, but lethal violence, with "training,"

Gotcha, on a basic. Why does firearms"training" assume the pre-disposition for violence? Are firearms and violence self-linked? 

Are MMA and violence self-linked? Are Karate and violence self-linked?

Are violence and epidemics self-linked?

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3 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Hi cb. You aren't keeping up, but you could rise above Jeffie and Tom. Slutkin has had stunning results in Chicago, and it was documented three times. He had results elsewhere, too. You should check him out to contribute to the conversation, and you haven't done so.  http://cureviolence.org/understand-violence/changing-behavior/

Doesn’t the idea of changing behavior to reduce violence begin with the premise that individuals are in control of themselves and their actions? 

And if that’s true is it not also true that guns don’t kill people, People do? 

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29 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Well, Range Instructor Jeff coaches in a school for pre-conditioning not just violence, but lethal violence, with "training,"

Gotcha, on a basic. Why does firearms"training" assume the pre-disposition for violence? Are firearms and violence self-linked? 

Are MMA and violence self-linked? Are Karate and violence self-linked?

Are violence and epidemics self-linked?

Does he? 

Firearms safety training should be mandatory before even being able to purchase, but that’s a not answering the question, though it is something that Jeff believes in as do I.

Does the safe use of a shotgun and coaching to hit clay targets at speed and distance fall into your category? 

I would say that MMA especially falls into your category as it’s primary is a fighting combat sport, karate? Not so much. 

I’ve no idea what you mean by ‘gotcha’. But you have just achieved the same as you chastise Jeff about, you haven’t answered the question, just responded with 5 more questions to deflect. 

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3 hours ago, jocal505 said:

You are deflecting. We want to know if you were trained to train violence into others, in gun range settings. 

Gun ranges are the leading cause of violence against paper. 

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1 minute ago, chinabald said:

Gun ranges are the leading cause of violence against paper. 

We murder innocent discs of clay on a regular basis. 

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

We murder innocent discs of clay on a regular basis. 

I’m probably classsified as a serial killer of clay. Even the ones I miss die horrible deaths and serious injury upon crashing to the ground 

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6 minutes ago, chinabald said:

I’m probably classsified as a serial killer of clay. Even the ones I miss die horrible deaths and serious injury upon crashing to the ground 

Sounds fun. Sounds skillful, too. Hickock could hit silver dollars with a handgun, at county fairs IIRC.

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21 minutes ago, mad said:

Does the safe use of a shotgun and coaching to hit clay targets at speed and distance fall into your category? 

No. May I ask for some firewall between shooting clay, or shooting cans, and shooting bad people?

Why did @badlatitude own gunz, and never flaunt self defense? He didn't go after the government with arms, either. What was that guy shooting at?

Did he have an internal firewall, or something?

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23 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Gun ranges are the leading cause of violence against paper. 

How much of the "paper" showed a human silhouette? How many of the crosshair target shooters want to shoot rapists? Hmmm?

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12 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

No. May I ask for some firewall between shooting clay, or shooting cans, and shooting bad people?

Why did @badlatitude own gunz, and never flaunt self defense? He didn't go after the government with arms, either. What was that guy shooting at?

Did he have an internal firewall, or something?

No you may not. 

Just for once play by the rules that you preach on this forum. 

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17 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Sounds fun. Sounds skillful, too. Hickock could hit silver dollars with a handgun, at county fairs IIRC.

The skills are easily transferred if required. 

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

The skills are easily transferred if required. 

You don't want to transfer clay shooting skills to shooting bad persons, or bad races. Such an idea is the format for an epidemic of violence. 

We have five or more gang epidemics underway, as we speak. Violence is contagious, you see.

Philly4 Slutkin's workers.jpg

CV3-Gary Skutkin, of Cure Violence.jpg

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Is non-violent NRA training available, in a program using  crosshair-type targets only? Is their a Quaker faction of the NRA?

Why not? Is it a supply and demand deal?

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24 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Is non-violent NRA training available, in a program using  crosshair-type targets only? Is their a Quaker faction of the NRA?

Why not? Is it a supply and demand deal?

By the same token, if certain states allow the ownership of guns for self defence purposes should there not be suitable training in place?

There a many industries that use simulation units. Aviation, maritime, fire and rescue. 

Would you prefer that as an option? 

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49 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

How much of the "paper" showed a human silhouette? How many of the crosshair target shooters want to shoot rapists? Hmmm?

I’ve belonged to 2 different clubs. Neither allow targets with people on them.

No one wants to shoot rapists. But many are prepared to if necessary. 

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35 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

You don't want to transfer clay shooting skills to shooting bad persons, or bad races. Such an idea is the format for an epidemic of violence. 

We have five or more gang epidemics underway, as we speak. Violence is contagious, you see.

Philly4 Slutkin's workers.jpg

CV3-Gary Skutkin, of Cure Violence.jpg

You’re correct, I don’t. 

But how do you intend to differentiate the training model. 

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34 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Is non-violent NRA training available, in a program using  crosshair-type targets only? Is their a Quaker faction of the NRA?

Why not? Is it a supply and demand deal?

Camp Perry NRA National handgun tourney. Do you see any people on the targets. 

sometimes you reach so far for your bullshit it’s amazing.  

5D0E2F42-9CD6-4AB0-AFFB-1E198B3312C5.jpeg

8FF8B70B-3500-4F0D-B34F-43DC07AF7D8E.jpeg

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5 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Do not fear, the NRA will defend Texas law that allowed this to happen.

Texas law allows for murder?

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1 hour ago, jocal505 said:

Is non-violent NRA training available

I don't know of any civilian firearm training in the US that involves assaulting the students, Joe. 

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10 hours ago, chinabald said:

Camp Perry NRA National handgun tourney. Do you see any people on the targets. 

sometimes you reach so far for your bullshit it’s amazing.  

Hi again, cb. My source is Political fucking Anarchy. Other threads, and other discussions. DIspute this if you can.

Mrs. Nelson. a protestant MILF,  buys a gun and is encouraged (by the knowing) to get "training." The usual and accepted certified training, I hear, is the NRA. When she gets to the NRA "self defense" class, she is instructed to 

  • shoot if she pulls a gun, without hesitation or ambivalence
  • to shoot at vital organs,
  •  to keep shooting until she "destroys" her "adversary"
  • and to hang out in this environment, with the people shooters, once a month.
  • to buy Carry Guard insurance, as an umbrella for extreme violence
  • and to get a CCP to make her new gun's presence public.

 

But there are no Quakerish CCP classes with the nra?  THIS PROGRAM IS ODD, and very heavy on the violence. Just sayin'. 

 

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10 hours ago, mad said:

Thank you. Yes, this offers strictly gun training. It doesn;t mention "self defense" indoctrination. And it is not the NRA.

Does the Old Seargeant's Mess Shooting Club certify instructors for common gun ranges? 

What is their broad stand on violence? The usual?

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10 hours ago, mad said:

By the same token, if certain states allow the ownership of guns for self defence purposes should there not be suitable training in place?

You've already sailed over the waterfall, then you trim the jib a bit, on the way down. Good work.

You have accepted violence as effective, as a baseline, in our conversation. You are standing on a platform of violence, wanting the root causes of violence explained, by me. 

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11 hours ago, chinabald said:

No one wants to shoot rapists.

@Shootist Jeff to aisle six.

  • Jeff wants to shoot rapists.
  • And Boothy wants to shoot rapists, to improve the earth.
  • Jeffie wants Joe to shoot the rapists (off of Gandhi's wife :D), and Joe can cite it. 
  • While drooling, Jeffie wants Joe's wifee to shoot a certain rapist, one who met due process
  • Jeffie wanted BentSailor to shoot a rapist, and that went over poorly.
  • @.22 Tom hounded me for weeks, and wanted a Mrs. Mason to shoot a  rapist who wasn't even a rapist.
  • Biker rapists are in bad territory around here.

That's about it, off the top of my head. But I hope you get my drift here chinabald.

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11 hours ago, mad said:
12 hours ago, jocal505 said:

 May I ask for some firewall between shooting clay, or shooting cans, and shooting bad people?

No you may not. 

Just for once play by the rules that you preach on this forum. 

So, shooting clay makes you more able to shoot bad guys. You are humping violence, breeding it and nurturing it (for a good cause, of course), while seeking the root causes of violence.

Just sayin'.

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16 minutes ago, Not guilty said:

HAHAHA It took till OCT. but someone has finally taken the award for the dumbest thing written on the internet. "shooting clay makes you more able to shoot bad guys" are these bad guys flying through the air? fuck those stupid "bad people" parachutists. Maybe it is the "bad guys' that jump around with jetpacks robbing people? Seriously how can you be this dumb? PLEAsE  explain how you are this dumb.

Tits tits tits, mate. Seriously.

 

Hi Not Guilty. This bit is the thread summmary, the key bit.

  • Wild Bill Hickock could demonstrate skill shooting silver dollars out of the air, with a handgun. All respect. In his case, the skill became hitched to bloodshed. 
  • Mohandas Gandhi faced military service by being very good in the medical core,, while proudly refusing all contact with all firearms.
  • Two different guys, and one was a violent gunman (for good causes, of course).

Two very different guys, then we have a third, named @mad. The third is a blend of the first two, but he won't separate shooting silver coins from interpersonal violence. Once again, we have the association between guns, and violence. We have a lack of separation between the two.

Interesting. It often seems to go that way, especially when one sets it up that way.

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This is what I adore about joey...... Give him a topic and a bit of rope and within hours he dangling from the ceiling after tying it around his own neck and pulling himself up into the rafters.  And like a slo-Mo trainwreck, you just cannot make yourself look away.

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5 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

This is what I adore about joey...... Give him a topic and a bit of rope and within hours he dangling from the ceiling after tying it around his own neck and pulling himself up into the rafters.  And like a slo-Mo trainwreck, you just cannot make yourself look away.

We've been discussing violence, um, the makeup of an epidemic. I'm gonna Chicago you because yer a turkey.

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48 minutes ago, jocal505 said:
11 hours ago, chinabald said:

No one wants to shoot rapists.

@Shootist Jeff to aisle six.

  • Jeff wants to shoot rapists.
  • And Boothy wants to shoot rapists, to improve the earth.
  • Jeffie wants Joe to shoot the rapists (off of Gandhi's wife :D), and Joe can cite it. 
  • While drooling, Jeffie wants Joe's wifee to shoot a certain rapist, one who met due process
  • Jeffie wanted BentSailor to shoot a rapist, and that went over poorly.
  • @.22 Tom hounded me for weeks, and wanted a Mrs. Mason to shoot a  rapist who wasn't even a rapist.
  • Biker rapists are in bad territory around here.

That's about it, off the top of my head. But I hope you get my drift here chinabald.

 

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Jeff, the guys want the inner secrets. the scuttlebutt on your formal Range Instructor training. YOU ARE THE MAN.

For starters, can you show us your credentials?

Can you show us your firewall between violence and guns?

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12 hours ago, jocal505 said:

How much of the "paper" showed a human silhouette? How many of the crosshair target shooters want to shoot rapists? Hmmm?

What's wrong with a human silhouette?  Is this promoting violence too?

sports_karate_0.jpg

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12 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

We've been discussing violence, um, the makeup of an epidemic. I'm gonna Chicago you because yer a turkey.

Please, let's discuss..... 

I'm curious joey - going back to your boy slutkin.....you said he started with addressing AIDS epidemics in Africa.  Was his success related to his work in promoting abstinence from risky activity and making it a crime to allow sex between high risk people?  

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Let's review.

Silver flowers vs. pink flowers in boring gun pics Zzzz.

Tan AW gun #4 vs black handgun #3 Zzzz.

CCP shooters vs. karate face bashers.

Avoidance of a unique man named Slutkin, andavoidance his work in Chicago ffs

A world of violence, assumptions of violence, conversations and gun training locked in violence, and a lame response from Range InstructorJeff. 

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30 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Please, let's discuss..... 

I'm curious joey - going back to your boy slutkin.....you said he started with addressing AIDS epidemics in Africa.  Was his success related to his work in promoting abstinence from risky activity and making it a crime to allow sex between high risk people?  

Thanks. Fucking A, and eureka.

Check this dude out. These are my notes from his video. Exciting shit.

Quote

A physician trained in infectious diseases

To Somalia after training in SF

Refugee situation

One million refugees, forty camps, Six doctors.

Dept was TB, but cholera spread. He was in charge of both

Had to recruit refugees to be health workers

Recruited by WHO for epidemic AIDS

Rwanda Burundi Zaire Uganda, The Congo, Tanzania,

Morphed into assignment of "Intervention Development"

Burned out after ten years, came home

Emotional costs. Too much death, and specifically, death by epidemic

Epidemics add panic and fear to death, compounding the head explosions

He is haunted by memories of women wailing in the desert.

3min

 

 

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2 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Let's review.

<more deflection>

Why can't won't you answer my question about Slutkin???  Was his success related to attempting to stop them from doing something dangerous or using something dangerous???  Or was his success related to teaching people how to be more responsible before they hurt themselves or others???  

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I made it to the inner cities before him. I did the carburetor part of his engine, on the streets. He has a plan and we had none.

He is not a gun hater. He is an epidemic hater.

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3 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Thanks. Fucking A, and eureka.

Check this dude out. These are my notes from his video. Exciting shit.

Blah blah blah

Still more deflection.  You couldn't give a straight answer if your wife's life depended on it.  

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1 minute ago, jocal505 said:

I made it to the inner cities before him. I did the carburetor part of his engine, on the streets. He has a plan and we had none.

And nothing has changed at all in all these years.  Still no plan and definitely still no clue.

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19 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:
13 hours ago, jocal505 said:

How much of the "paper" showed a human silhouette? How many of the crosshair target shooters want to shoot rapists? Hmmm?

What's wrong with a human silhouette?  Is this promoting violence too?

sports_karate_0.jpg

Yoo Hoo, joey!  Why are you avoiding this question?  Seems pretty violent towards people.  Seems like they are teaching people how to specifically hurt and main other humans as part of self-defense.  Do you condemn this the way you condemn silhouette paper targets?  If not, why not?

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15 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Why can't won't you answer my question about Slutkin???  Was his success related to attempting to stop them from doing something dangerous or using something dangerous???  Or was his success related to teaching people how to be more responsible before they hurt themselves or others???  

I can't read his work for you, and you sir see me as a jaded liar, without perception., so you don't need my filter.

He is inoffensive. He is connected. He is appropriate. He is driven. He has documented results. He is following the probing of the brain itself, to track violence and its effects. He will be a voice is causal study of violence, IMO.

Jeff, I brought the gun research to PA before it hit in the courts. This guy will be a player IMO.

In the international rankings of the 500 NGO's, Cure Violence falls at #10. Daniel Webster, um, the tiger created by David Hemenway, has publicly weighted in in favor of Slutkin, meaning Harvard Research will follow him.

I have never cared for your Ugly American references to Chicago.

 

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Just now, jocal505 said:

I can't read his work for you, and you sir see me as a jaded liar, without perception., so you donlt need my filter.

He is inoffensive. He is connected. He is approporiate. He is driven. He has documented results. He is following the probing of the brain itself, to track violence and its effects. He will be a voice is causal study of violence, IMO.

Jeff, I brought the gun research to PA before it hit in the courts. This guy will be a player IMO.

In the international rankings of the 500 NGO's, Cure Violence falls at #10. Daniel Webster, um, the tiger created by David Hemenway, has publicly weighted in in favor of Slutkin, meaning Harvard Research will follow him.

I have never cared for your Ugly American references to Chicago.

I never once said he was offensive or ineffective.  Just the opposite.  I'm not try to discredit him, I'm trying to get YOU to fucking see that what you think is his epidemic cure is not the thing you think it is.  He doesn't look to ban toolz as a way to treat epidemics.  He is going to the root causes of why the violence exists in the first place and treating them rather than treating the superficial symptoms.  

You don't need to sell slutkin to me, I was there long before you.  But I don't think he stands for what you think he stands for. 

However, if you are finally ready to admit that the cure is not in going after the toolz but rather the human behavior that drives the violence and makes it possible for someone to kill another human being in the streets of South Side simply because they belong to the wrong tribe or they dissed them on twitter - then I will finally rejoice that I've won you over.  

From the wiki page on his "Cure Violence" Initiative:  

Quote

Cure Violence approaches violence in an entirely new way: as a contagious disease that can be stopped using the same health strategies employed to fight epidemics. The Cure Violence model trains and deploys outreach workers and violence interrupters to mitigate conflict on the street before it turns violent.[8] These interrupters are credible messengers, trusted members of the communities served, who use their street credibility to model and teach community members better ways of communicating with each other and how to resolve conflicts peacefully.[9]

Cure Violence follows a three-pronged health approach to violence prevention : detection/interruption of planned violent activity, behavior change of high-risk individuals, and changing community norms.[10]

Please tell me, which one of those 3 prongs ^^ involve banning or heavily regulating guns in the US?  

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2 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Hi again, cb. My source is Political fucking Anarchy. Other threads, and other discussions. DIspute this if you can.

Mrs. Nelson. a protestant MILF,  buys a gun and is encouraged (by the knowing) to get "training." The usual and accepted certified training, I hear, is the NRA. When she gets to the NRA "self defense" class, she is instructed to 

  • shoot if she pulls a gun, without hesitation or ambivalence
  • to shoot at vital organs,
  •  to keep shooting until she "destroys" her "adversary"
  • and to hang out in this environment, with the people shooters, once a month.
  • to buy Carry Guard insurance, as an umbrella for extreme violence
  • and to get a CCP to make her new gun's presence public.

 

But there are no Quakerish CCP classes with the nra?  THIS PROGRAM IS ODD, and very heavy on the violence. Just sayin'. 

 

If your sources are only PA and online forums, it may explain your rather rabid and frothing at the mouth attitude. 

Step outside for some fresh air. 

Do you have a cite for the story above? What would be your alternative be to a firearms self defence course? Please feel free to lay out your revised course notes. 

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2 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Thank you. Yes, this offers strictly gun training. It doesn;t mention "self defense" indoctrination. And it is not the NRA.

Does the Old Seargeant's Mess Shooting Club certify instructors for common gun ranges? 

What is their broad stand on violence? The usual?

The target shotgun course sounds more akin to house to house combat training. 

What is a common gun range exactly? 

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3 hours ago, jocal505 said:

You've already sailed over the waterfall, then you trim the jib a bit, on the way down. Good work.

You have accepted violence as effective, as a baseline, in our conversation. You are standing on a platform of violence, wanting the root causes of violence explained, by me. 

That's a lot of supposition on your part.  Along with the now standard 'JOE' deflections and dodging of questions.

And yes..............unfortunately, on occasion the threat of violence can prevent aggression against the innocent. 

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3 hours ago, jocal505 said:

So, shooting clay makes you more able to shoot bad guys. You are humping violence, breeding it and nurturing it (for a good cause, of course), while seeking the root causes of violence.

Just sayin'.

More supposition and deflection.................Just sayin'

Care to answer the question?

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4 hours ago, jocal505 said:

So, shooting clay makes you more able to shoot bad guys. You are humping violence, breeding it and nurturing it (for a good cause, of course), while seeking the root causes of violence.

Just sayin'.

No shooting clays is terrible practice for shooting bad guys. The bad guys move to slow and you tend to lead them too much. 

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5 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Hi again, cb. My source is Political fucking Anarchy. Other threads, and other discussions. DIspute this if you can.

Mrs. Nelson. a protestant MILF,  buys a gun and is encouraged (by the knowing) to get "training." The usual and accepted certified training, I hear, is the NRA. When she gets to the NRA "self defense" class, she is instructed to 

  • shoot if she pulls a gun, without hesitation or ambivalence
  • to shoot at vital organs,
  •  to keep shooting until she "destroys" her "adversary"
  • and to hang out in this environment, with the people shooters, once a month.
  • to buy Carry Guard insurance, as an umbrella for extreme violence
  • and to get a CCP to make her new gun's presence public.

 

But there are no Quakerish CCP classes with the nra?  THIS PROGRAM IS ODD, and very heavy on the violence. Just sayin'. 

 

Hmm how do I dispute your anecdotal ramblings when photographic evidence isn’t enough? You asked. 

 

“Is non-violent NRA training available, in a program using  crosshair-type targets only? Is their a Quaker faction of the NRA?

 Why not? Is it a supply and demand deal?”

 

i showed you the photo proof that you are full of shit with your retorical question of “why not” and you double down. 

As for CPL training. The material taught is required by the state. The NRA does not set the curriculum. 

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17 hours ago, mad said:

Firearms safety training should be mandatory before even being able to purchase, but that’s a not answering the question, though it is something that Jeff believes in as do I.

What problem is this supposed to address? If we're going to train millions of people, train them to do what, or not do what?

My thinking is that Darwin gets most people to get their own training and the rest get... Darwined. And you can't train that out of people.

My more cynical thinking is that no level of training will be "enough" for our grabberz, who would use a program like this the way they use any other gun control: to punish gun owners by making gun ownership more burdensome and expensive.

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3 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never once said he was offensive or ineffective.  Just the opposite.  I'm not try to discredit him, I'm trying to get YOU to fucking see that what you think is his epidemic cure is not the thing you think it is.  He doesn't look to ban toolz as a way to treat epidemics.  He is going to the root causes of why the violence exists in the first place and treating them rather than treating the superficial symptoms.  

You don't need to sell slutkin to me, I was there long before you.  But I don't think he stands for what you think he stands for. 

However, if you are finally ready to admit that the cure is not in going after the toolz but rather the human behavior that drives the violence and makes it possible for someone to kill another human being in the streets of South Side simply because they belong to the wrong tribe or they dissed them on twitter - then I will finally rejoice that I've won you over.  

From the wiki page on his "Cure Violence" Initiative:  

Please tell me, which one of those 3 prongs ^^ involve banning or heavily regulating guns in the US?  

 

3 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never once said he was offensive or ineffective.  Just the opposite.  I'm not try to discredit him, I'm trying to get YOU to fucking see that what you think is his epidemic cure is not the thing you think it is.  He doesn't look to ban toolz as a way to treat epidemics.  He is going to the root causes of why the violence exists in the first place and treating them rather than treating the superficial symptoms.  

You don't need to sell slutkin to me, I was there long before you.  But I don't think he stands for what you think he stands for. 

However, if you are finally ready to admit that the cure is not in going after the toolz but rather the human behavior that drives the violence and makes it possible for someone to kill another human being in the streets of South Side simply because they belong to the wrong tribe or they dissed them on twitter - then I will finally rejoice that I've won you over.  

From the wiki page on his "Cure Violence" Initiative:  

Please tell me, which one of those 3 prongs ^^ involve banning or heavily regulating guns in the US?  

Interesting Jeff sounds like the programs Focus Hope had going in the Detroit public schools in the 70s. A group that Jocal never heard of, even though his time there overlapped with their in school programs. 

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21 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:
23 hours ago, badlatitude said:

 

Good God, 4 dead at a 1-year-old birthday party. How can some people defend this?

 "Law enforcement officials are investigating a shooting Saturday that has left four people dead outside the city limits, a Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman confirmed.

 

I'm sorry.... who's defending it???  And what are we supposedly defending?

People who say stuff like this:

On 1/9/2018 at 11:52 AM, badlatitude said:

I like my Second Amendment rights and will continue to resist the Nutterz attempts to dislodge me from my rights.


They apparently didn't read the press release and don't know the lesson of every "mass" shooting.

On 11/10/2017 at 4:46 PM, badlatitude said:
"We’re introducing an updated Assault Weapons Ban for one reason: so that after every mass shooting with a military-style assault weapon, the American people will know that a tool to reduce these massacres is sitting in the Senate, ready for debate and a vote. 

“This bill won’t stop every mass shooting, but it will begin removing these weapons of war from our streets. The first Assault Weapons Ban was just starting to show an effect when the NRA stymied its reauthorization in 2004. Yes, it will be a long process to reduce the massive supply of these assault weapons in our country, but we’ve got to start somewhere. 

“To those who say now isn’t the time, they’re right—we should have extended the original ban 13 years ago, before hundreds more Americans were murdered with these weapons of war. To my colleagues in Congress, I say do your job."

....................................................... 

Joining Senator Feinstein on the bill are Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Patty Murray (D-Wash.), Jack Reed (D-R.I.), Tom Carper (D-Del.), Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Ed Markey (D-Mass.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.), Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.) and Bob Casey (D-Pa.).

Same lesson as always: DO SOMETHING.

And the really enthusiastic ones want to do more:

On 4/7/2018 at 9:08 PM, badlatitude said:

There is nothing I can do now but support a full Second Amendment extermination, which I will do with huge endowments. Money talks.

 

19 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Deflecting to another cause of mass murder doesn't change the fact that access to guns and weak laws may have caused this event.

May have. Did. Doesn't matter. What matters is that we DO SOMETHING.

I know it's a heresy like drawing a caricature of Mohammed, but I'll continue to quote from proposed and existing laws.

I know it's a heresy like wiping your ass with that cartoon and handing it to a Muslim, but I'll continue to say why they're stupid.

Here's why in one picture:

DiFiScreenshotTruth.jpg

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13 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

 

What problem is this supposed to address? If we're going to train millions of people, train them to do what, or not do what?

 

 

Not blowing their own fucking foot of with a shotgun (admittedly Darwin helps and they'll only ever do it once) :P ..............and more important, don't point the fucker at me when its loaded or when they have a light strike and wonder what to do next.

Image result for elmer fudd look down barrel

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Not blowing their own fucking foot of with a shotgun (admittedly Darwin helps and they'll only ever do it once) :P ..............and more important, don't point the fucker at me when its loaded or when they have a light strike and wonder what to do next.

Image result for elmer fudd look down barrel

I'd classify those under "things kids should know VERY well by about age 12."

And, given that it's a rule for 12 year olds, "things that don't have much to do with purchasing firearms."

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2 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

I'd classify those under "things kids should know VERY well by about age 12."

And, given that it's a rule for 12 year olds, "things that don't have much to do with purchasing firearms."

They SHOULD, but unfortunately many do not, especially as access to firearms become more restricted.  The days of your Grandfather etc teaching you as a child are fast disappearing, along with common sense.

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30 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Hmm how do I dispute your anecdotal ramblings when photographic evidence isn’t enough?

You think self defense classes were featured in your photos? Well, I don't.

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47 minutes ago, chinabald said:

No shooting clays is terrible practice for shooting bad guys. The bad guys move to slow and you tend to lead them too much. 

Image result for blunderbuss

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

They SHOULD, but unfortunately many do not, especially as access to firearms become more restricted.  The days of your Grandfather etc teaching you as a child are fast disappearing, along with common sense.

Depends what you mean by "many." I have seen unsafe gun handling at ranges, but not in a long time. Accidental shootings number in the hundreds and I really don't think mandating training for millions is going to help those hundreds. Darwin. Some can't be helped. Also, experienced and trained people DO shoot themselves, shoot their own walls, etc, mostly when cleaning guns. They should know better. They are trained. But people fuck up. It's very much like my old boss told me about landing a plane gear up: "If you think it can't happen to you, you're next."

The disappearance of common sense has led to "training" stories like the one entitled "Emily Gets Her Gun" in the Moontimes. Months of work, hundreds in fees, lots of driving to distant places where ranges are legal, etc. Basically, burdens that would NEVER be tolerated if infringing on a favored right like voting.

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4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:
Quote

Cure Violence follows a three-pronged health approach to violence prevention : detection/interruption of planned violent activity, behavior change of high-risk individuals, and changing community norms.[10]

Please tell me, which one of those 3 prongs ^^ involve banning or heavily regulating guns in the US?  

The second and third apply to the SA Gun Club. I've been a flower on the wallpaper for six years, noting the common violence worked into your  words, values, and thought processes.

  • 26 homicides don't need due process if they get 26 follow-ups, by vigilantes.
  • Kids can be killed, as long as Jeff's idea of the constitution is fulfilled.
  • Tom is the type who would trash MLK's values and religion, for entertainment.

 

Our broad conversation is looking for some separation between violence, and guns. We don;t find many...

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26 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Same lesson as always: DO SOMETHING.

Are you proposing doing nothing?
Might you be proposing studying what to do, then committing to doing it? 

Or are you just a buzzard waiting for the road kill, like  fake newz school shootings?

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6 hours ago, jocal505 said:

 hounded me for weeks, and wanted a Mrs. Mason to shoot a  rapist who wasn't even a rapist.

Again.

On 9/3/2018 at 4:55 AM, dogballs Tom said:

Joe is lying again.

The post which sparked his shower fixation was this one:

As noted in that post, she was showering (presumably without panties, though her crotch was probably moist) and was confronted by a man with a knife. She got to her gun and shot the bastard. Like Bull Gator, Joe had a problem with that, and still does.

He wasn't even a rapist. Just a harmless visitor. With a knife. In her shower. No reason to shoot the bastard.

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13 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

You think self defense classes were featured in your photos? Well, I don't.

 

17 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Is non-violent NRA training available, in a program using  crosshair-type targets only? Is their a Quaker faction of the NRA?

Why not? Is it a supply and demand deal?

So are you changing the question now? Here is your entire post  and it was not a direct answer to another post so you can’t say the self defense was implied  

You are wrong about this Joe.  As I stated before I belong to a gun club  I’m a past member of a different club, neither allow targets that depict a person. Both clubs have NRA trained RSOs and Instructors. Both have allowed CPL training.

We also have an NRA competition pistol team at my club. They train shooters to compete at Camp Perry, they use the targets you suggest that the NRA Quaker faction would choose.  

 

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20 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Again.

He wasn't even a rapist. Just a harmless visitor. With a knife. In her shower. No reason to shoot the bastard.

Joe is lying again, eh? You sad fucker, you hounded me with this violent doppelganger bullshit.

Tom was the sole architect of the Ms. Mason debacle.  This bit was so offensive, the link didnt get opened for years.

Quote

Ms. Mason thinking of England:

Tom Ray Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:56 AM

Your silence strongly suggests you think Ms. Mason should have just laid back and thought of England, you know...

Quote

Ms. Mason II

Like Ms. Mason, who you brought to the thread earlier but don't seem to want to discuss any more. Simple question: was she better off being disarmed and shot in the arm with her own gun, or being raped? My answer: I'd a lot rather be shot in the arm.

Quote

Ms. Mason III

Tom Ray Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

Admit that you would not mind if Mason was raped, as long as she did not defend herself with an evil gun. That is your position, right? Say it loud and proud!

 

Hi Tom. We are manipulating rapes which didn't happen, to peddle gun violence, like a psycho. We are displaying a young woman shot with her own gun, too, while forcing violence onto Joe. 

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3 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Joe is lying again, eh?

You did hit the Submit Reply button, so yes.

So what did you mean when you falsely claimed that I

6 hours ago, jocal505 said:

wanted a Mrs. Mason to shoot a  rapist who wasn't even a rapist.

Do you think the fact he had not yet raped her meant she should not have shot him?

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21 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

You did hit the Submit Reply button, so yes.

So what did you mean when you falsely claimed that I

Do you think the fact he had not yet raped her meant she should not have shot him?

Your violence has layers, Tom. It gets supported when it is a disaster. Your baseline is plenty strong, but it sucks.

 

Mason was dating, and she didn't set up her options well. She had some. Guns were not the solution to what she had going on.

You tried to coerce me to support Mason's (failed) gun violence, in public, three times, then said you didn''t do that. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

 

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8 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Do you think the fact he had not yet raped her meant she should not have shot him?

^^^^ Not for me to say. Not for you to say. We weren't there.

You sad fucker. You need to presume this man's innocence. He raped no one, even with her gun in his hand. 

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33 minutes ago, chinabald said:

 

So are you changing the question now? Here is your entire post  and it was not a direct answer to another post so you can’t say the self defense was implied  

You are wrong about this Joe.  As I stated before I belong to a gun club  I’m a past member of a different club, neither allow targets that depict a person. Both clubs have NRA trained RSOs and Instructors. Both have allowed CPL training.

We also have an NRA competition pistol team at my club. They train shooters to compete at Camp Perry, they use the targets you suggest that the NRA Quaker faction would choose.  

 

This is refreshing. To clarify this, if Mrs. Nelson, the nice MILF, went to your club, she could get trained in gun handling, and she could choose non-violent instruction.

If she wants a CCP or PTC, talk us through the violence conditioning which follows, if any.

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12 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Mason was dating, and she didn't set it up her options well.

You have no source on that, but even if she was dating someone else, how is that relevant when a stranger shows up with a knife in her shower?

People get in their showers. What did she do wrong with her options?

11 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

You need to presume this man's innocence. He raped no one, even with her gun in his hand. 

He never got hold of her gun, which is why she lived and he died.

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12 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

You have no source on that, but even if she was dating someone else, how is that relevant when a stranger shows up with a knife in her shower?

People get in their showers. What did she do wrong with her options?

He never got hold of her gun, which is why she lived and he died.

You are mixing two episodes, and Tom Ray provided my source.. Your Ms. Mason picked a guy up at a bar and took him home. She had some rucus with him in her home in the early morning hours. Then got shot by a gun she pulled, probably not by herself. She gave up the gun, in her injured state. He left, in her car, IIRC.

You should never have mentioned her, but I understand: you were caught up in promoting violent ways.

This is strange, violent shit. Can you see that?

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32 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Joe is lying again, eh? You sad fucker, you hounded me with this violent doppelganger bullshit.

Tom was the sole architect of the Ms. Mason debacle.  This bit was so offensive, the link didnt get opened for years.

 

Hi Tom. We are manipulating rapes which didn't happen, to peddle gun violence, like a psycho. We are displaying a young woman shot with her own gun, too, while forcing violence onto Joe. 

Your screaming on a keyboard is slightly disturbing :unsure:

8 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

This is refreshing. To clarify this, if Mrs. Nelson, the nice MILF, went to your club, she could get trained in gun handling, and she could choose non-violent instruction.

If she wants a CCP or PTC, talk us through the violence conditioning which follows, if any.

Why are you so comfortable using the term MILF?  Its pretty a derogatory term 

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2 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Your Ms. Mason picked a guy up at a bar and took him home.

No.

 

4 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

You are mixing two episodes

You are, but you haven't provided the source on the second one.

This happened to someone else:

5 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

Your Ms. Mason picked a guy up at a bar and took him home. She had some rucus with him in her home in the early morning hours. Then got shot by a gun she pulled, probably nor by herself. She gave up the gun, in her injured state. He left, in her car, IIRC.

You should never have mentioned her

And when you lie about it again, I'll still be able to find the original in Scot's database to prove you're lying again.

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4 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

This is refreshing. To clarify this, if Mrs. Nelson, the nice MILF, went to your club, she could get trained in gun handling, and she could choose non-violent instruction.

If she wants a CCP or PTC, talk us through the violence conditioning which follows, if any.

Mrs Nelson could join the local chapter of The Well Armed Women who meet at our club, and shoot with like minded ladies if she chooses. I would recommend Mrs Nelson contact a non member of my club who specializes in training of women, he does several free classes each year for women only. 

In Michigan there are several requirements to be issued a CPL, one is an 8 hour course that has the following elements.

  • safe storage, use and handling of a pistol including, but not limited to, safe storage, use and handling to protect a child;
  • ammunition knowledge, and the fundamentals of pistol shooting;
  • pistol shooting positions;
  • firearms and the law, including civil liability issues;
  • avoiding criminal attack and controlling a violent confrontation;
  • all laws that apply to carrying a concealed pistol in this state; and
  • at least 8 hours of instruction, including 3 hours of firing range time

If a new member wanted training on handling a firearm there are several club members and/or board members who will gladly help this person out. If they want CPL training then that is not dictated by our club, while occasionally we schedule CPL classes the state is in charge of that curriculum. As you can see from my list no violence conditioning is included. 

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

Why are you so comfortable using the term MILF?  Its pretty a derogatory term 

It is? My heart was soaring like a hawk.

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19 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

No.

 

You are, but you haven't provided the source on the second one.

This happened to someone else:

And when you lie about it again, I'll still be able to find the original in Scot's database to prove you're lying again.

Ms. Mason needed two guns?

I found the whole thing, the newspaper account of Ms. Mason's incident that is, last year. (I had never opened the link, because your bit was very douchebag slimy.} I was extremely pissed that no rape had taken place.  I called you out on it, loudly, and in a sustained manner.

You are a piece of shit with the violence, mate. And one of us is double-lying, yes.

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22 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

You tripled down on the lie.

Here's the full text of the Mrs. Mason story.

  Quote

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. - A Woman was shot early Friday morning in San Carlos Park in South Fort Myers.

The Sheriffs Office tells FOX 4 the shooting happened around 4:AM

35-year-old Barbara Mason was shot in the arm and is expected to be ok.

Mason met the Suspect while hanging out at a friends house.

The suspect asked Mason to drive him home where he proceeded to ask her for Sex and a struggle was started with Mason being shot.

The suspect took Mason's handgun and blue Cadillac with Florida tag A57OTQ and fled in an unknown direction.

If you have any information on this case please call the Lee County Sheriffs Office at 239-477-1000 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-780-TIPS.

Quote

 

 

You are projecting rape innuendo onto me, to get me to promote violence. And you are lying (or were mistaken) to support the former. Your dedication to violence as a solution is noted, while the stats in the USA show that guns are femicidal in a de facto kinda way.

 

And the traumatic shower bit or knife in the kitchen bit has a wonderful, personal chapter which is unexplored, IIRC. Same for your two friends who were taken out by your doggies.

The subject is the prevalence of violence in how we approach things. Even dog training.

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26 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

It is? My heart was soaring like a hawk.

Are you being an imbecile on purpose?

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

Are you being an imbecile on purpose?

Why do you hate MILFs? ;)

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1 minute ago, jocal505 said:

Why do you hate MILFs? ;)

Where did I say that??

You really are one disingenuous, question dodging prick.

The minute you get boxed into a corner, you'll twist, squirm, shout, deflect and do everything possible to avoid answering any questions that won't fit your very specific agenda.

You're more rabid and deluded than any gun owner on this site.  

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42 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Just so you know, whatever this is has been unexplored by myself at this point. But if it involves guns in showers, I want some of it.

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