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Plenipotentiary Tom

Building A Bridge

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Has anyone done this? I've made a couple of small ones. Now I'm thinking of making one here:

PondBridgeSite.jpg

From where the pic is taken, I want to be able to drive my golf cart down that grass ahead. It's about 20 feet from shore to shore. The cart with four adults aboard probably weighs 1,600 lbs. I've thought of using aluminum beams, using plastic barrels to make a pontoon bridge, putting concrete piers out in the water, even a small suspension bridge. That's an artesian spring on the left. It's not quite as bad as salt water when it comes to rusting things that are made of steel, but is close. So no steel. What would you do?

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If you do it the African way, that is, don’t give a shit about the environment, get a few cubes of builders rubble and fill it up, should last your lifetime if not longer.

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32 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

So no steel.

Um... unless it's free. Someone on FB suggested using an old trailer frame. I have an old POS pontoon boat trailer that has a galvanized frame. The frame is in good shape, nothing else is. So if I cut off everything else, how do I figure out if that frame is strong enough for the purpose?

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If you can get some pillars in the middle of the water then a laminated beam or timber telegraph pole will easily and safely span 3 meters, in front of the property I am staying in at the moment in the Caribbean the jetties have legs made by sinking 110mm plastic  underground waste pipe into the sand then filling them with concrete, a bit of steel reinforcing up the centre probably wouldn’t do any harm.

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Do what ever is fast and cheap, test with a group you are not particularly fond of, let them drive!!!!!

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6 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

If you can get some pillars in the middle of the water then a laminated beam or timber telegraph pole will easily and safely span 3 meters, in front of the property I am staying in at the moment in the Caribbean the jetties have legs made by sinking 110mm plastic  underground waste pipe into the sand then filling them with concrete, a bit of steel reinforcing up the centre probably wouldn’t do any harm.

devide the span in three, 2 benttes

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1 minute ago, Ease the sheet. said:

 

Maybe you local gov planning office might have some ideas.......

That's Funny

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Tom.  Please make it biodegradable.   The next time there is a ‘500 year’ or ‘thousand year’ flood (next month?) it will end up somewhere else.   Can you make a floating bridge you can deploy as needed?    

Allow me to channel my boring version of Rasputin.    About 16 years ago I was canoeing a Northern Indiana river when I came across a levee of 1950’s cars protecting a farm field.    Several had fallen into the river, creating a rusty hazard.   I reported it to the state department of natural resources, who wanted the location in longitude and latitude, plus photos.   This was long before smart phones, but by coincidence I had been lent a GPS and digital camera by homeland security.    (Disclosure, this wasn’t because I was a super secret agent.   They couldn’t figure out how to spend all their money, and a state appointee let me volunteer to borrow a bunch of high tech electronics, laptop and databases until they became obsolete.   At that time I coincidentally resigned.)  Anyway, I went back and got a memory card full of evidence.    The state was amazed even though they had been rusting, leaking and falling into the water for  decades, assuming they were 10-15 years old when junked.   They saw a foot bridge made out of deck material in the background of one of my photos, crossing a small unnamed tributary creek.    Indiana decided they didn’t have authority over junk cars in the river, but the foot bridge lacked a permit, necessary since the water was state controlled. :wacko:

 

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Two different people on FB had the same suggestion: cut out one end of a shipping container, cut windows into it, have a cool covered bridge.

That idea was immediately vetoed by my wife.

8 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Please don’t do any of that... 3 or 4 sheets of 3/4 plywood on a good flat floor... draw the arch and screw down clapping blocks... 1/2 x whatever laminated to the blocks... you’ll marvel at yourself

I don't speak woodworker and don't really know what you're suggesting, but it sounds like something that will rot in the weather.

7 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

How deep is it?

 

What about some large diameter concrete pipes supporting a timber platform? 

Maybe you local gov planning office might have some ideas.......

Only a few feet in that spot but soft muck over sand.

 

8 hours ago, Major Tom said:

the property I am staying in at the moment in the Caribbean the jetties have legs made by sinking 110mm plastic  underground waste pipe into the sand then filling them with concrete

I considered that, but then realized I don't know how deep into the sand I'd have to go to make it stay put.

6 hours ago, Lark said:

Tom.  Please make it biodegradable.   The next time there is a ‘500 year’ or ‘thousand year’ flood (next month?) it will end up somewhere else.   Can you make a floating bridge you can deploy as needed?    

Allow me to channel my boring version of Rasputin.    About 16 years ago I was canoeing a Northern Indiana river when I came across a levee of 1950’s cars protecting a farm field.    Several had fallen into the river, creating a rusty hazard.   I reported it to the state department of natural resources, who wanted the location in longitude and latitude, plus photos.   This was long before smart phones, but by coincidence I had been lent a GPS and digital camera by homeland security.    (Disclosure, this wasn’t because I was a super secret agent.   They couldn’t figure out how to spend all their money, and a state appointee let me volunteer to borrow a bunch of high tech electronics, laptop and databases until they became obsolete.   At that time I coincidentally resigned.)  Anyway, I went back and got a memory card full of evidence.    The state was amazed even though they had been rusting, leaking and falling into the water for  decades, assuming they were 10-15 years old when junked.   They saw a foot bridge made out of deck material in the background of one of my photos, crossing a small unnamed tributary creek.    Indiana decided they didn’t have authority over junk cars in the river, but the foot bridge lacked a permit, necessary since the water was state controlled. :wacko:

 

I'm considering a floating bridge but doubt anything made of metal or concrete would be moved by a flood. It's always needed and will never be removed. You and ETS do have me wondering what the local authorities might think of my plan. I've decided not to ask. I'm uncoop... well, you know.

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27 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Two different people on FB had the same suggestion: cut out one end of a shipping container, cut windows into it, have a cool covered bridge.

That idea was immediately vetoed by my wife.

I don't speak woodworker and don't really know what you're suggesting, but it sounds like something that will rot in the weather.

Only a few feet in that spot but soft muck over sand.

 

I considered that, but then realized I don't know how deep into the sand I'd have to go to make it stay put.

I'm considering a floating bridge but doubt anything made of metal or concrete would be moved by a flood. It's always needed and will never be removed. You and ETS do have me wondering what the local authorities might think of my plan. I've decided not to ask. I'm uncoop... well, you know.

And my "local gov planning office" suggestion was just me being facetious, knowing your opinions on such things.

 

But seriously,  a few 6 or 8ft diameter concrete pipes with a timber platform on top will do the job. Because of the depth, length and required strength,  its not going to be a "Flyin Hawaiian" type build

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Put this bridge in 10 years ago to connect one side of our property to the other. Got tired of the kids getting stuck in the muck when they were building their fort on the other side.

20180923_071827.jpg

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The depth of the supports in the water is not highly critical as long as they are resting on sand or something fairly uncompressable.

If you use plastic tubing you can use a hose pipe with a high pressure nozzle to flush out the mud. Providing the longitudinal beams are firmly attached to the legs and the legs are cross braced then as long as the end of the bridge are firmly secured there is no way the legs can go walkabout. My jetty at home is in 1.8m water and the legs are sunk 1m into the mud/sand. They are 200mm treated gumpoles and I built the jetty 20 years ago, no problems with rotting, used a hose pipe with a nozzle on the end tied onto an Aluminium pole to make the holes for the legs, got  over 20 in in one day without any assistance, I was a lot younger then.....

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Are treated stock fence posts cheaply available.  Here, 8” X12’ are less than $20 each and jetting them into soft substrate is pretty easy. With a 20’ span, you could use 6” diameter posts set 6’ apart.  8 posts in the water and 4 on land for a total bridge length of 30’. Chainsaw to a common height after set. Give it a couple of feet above the water.  Rising  sea levels and the like;)

I would go with something with at least a gentle arch. Flat, dock style are absolutely functional but even a small rise and fall will make your wife happier. 

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You are up against it with such a bridge. The support bases on each side alone (for whatever) are a serious technical problem.

Here's your short answer. Buy a 5ft wide tidal dock ramp, just pay big bucks for it. Then set it on pressure treated buttresses, maybe set them on a crushed rock base. 

--We have a community-built bridge over a salmon stream next door, made of huge steel I beams. Nobody painted the underside, and the steel is flaking, not unlike de-laminating fiberglass layers. The steel is rotted, as we speak

--We have 35ft riparian buffer zones next to the waterways in the PNW. Aerial photos show the new, illegal structures, and owners are legally pursued. One result is that the salmon smelt is plentiful here, and the big fish measure around 32".

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Odd...... I know I posted to this thread yesterday..... But.... Not here...

 Anyway, I'll try to get a picture of the one I did for my sister 20(+-) years ago. Laminated arches 6"X14"X24' with about a 2' arch. It goes over a brook and lands on the edge of her pond. Has fairly massive poured concrete footing on either end (Capped in local river stone).

 Think Monet's "Water lily pond"...

image.png.ccd5af97a12d3280b0f194bd5dde11c4.png

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I'd suggest a simple wooden arch truss bridge.  The laminated arches provide the tension elements to support the deck.  The deck beams act as tension elements to stop the legs of the arch spreading, so it's a self-contained structure.  Cross beams every 4 feet in line with the tension bars give a solid footing for the deck.  

Make it 6 feet wide, or even 8 feet if you're worried about poor drivers.  1" ply should be fine for the decking.  When you paint it, sprinkle a lot of sand into the paint to provide grip, just like your old boat deck.

A handrail 42" off the deck should keep inspectors happy. 

Pour a pair of simple concrete slab footers both ends with some embedded studs.  It all bolts together.  Then prime and paint it as if your life depends on it.  Which it might.  

Ask her to select the color. 

Buy a local engineer a few beers and he'll get it all done right.

Sorry about the crappy sketch - done in Word on my old laptop.

 

creek_bridge-1.jpg

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Nice suggestions but I think many misoverestimate my skills, budget, desire not to offend the Tacky Police, and desire to tell any officials about this structure.

I measured my POS pontoon boat trailer. The square part of the frame is 13' long. It has 5" galvanized steel beams that have about a 2" lip top and bottom. Seems to be about 1/4" thick, maybe a bit less. I didn't use a caliper.

Thinking of making concrete pilings like Major Tom suggests at the four corners. Deck over the trailer part and then make ramps from each shore.

It looks strong enough to hold a golf cart without a piling in the middle but I'm not sure I want my cart involved in testing that theory.

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1 hour ago, dogballs Tom said:

Nice suggestions but I think many misoverestimate my skills, budget, desire not to offend the Tacky Police, and desire to tell any officials about this structure.

I measured my POS pontoon boat trailer. The square part of the frame is 13' long. It has 5" galvanized steel beams that have about a 2" lip top and bottom. Seems to be about 1/4" thick, maybe a bit less. I didn't use a caliper.

Thinking of making concrete pilings like Major Tom suggests at the four corners. Deck over the trailer part and then make ramps from each shore.

It looks strong enough to hold a golf cart without a piling in the middle but I'm not sure I want my cart involved in testing that theory.

If you drive fast there is less stress on the bridge.  :D

If you drive really fast you only need the ramps on each shore.      This saves the pontoon trailer as an utility trailer to haul the needed materials.

 

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Or you could simply buy two 4" x 12" x 16 feet (or even 20 feet) pieces of pressure-treated lumber

Lay a concrete slab each end with the studs in it as before, and some stout L-brackets to secure the longitudinals to the concrete footers with through bolts.  Then use some heavy galvanized joist hangers and put some 2" x 8" joists across it at 4 foot centers, with the bottoms flush with the bottoms of the longitudinals, and lay the ply deck on top. 

This gives you a 3" high toe-rail each side.

As before lots of prime and paint.  

Two 16-foot lengths of 4" x 12" should be just fine.

Add handrails if you want.

Not sure about longevity for your metal trailer frame.  It seems a bit short, anyway.  

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Not plywood for the deck. 2X6 with at least a half inch in between for drainage.

 Even PT 3/4" ply would only last a year where Tom lives.

(yeah, the 1/2" gaps are hell on stiletto heels, but so is spongy ground.)

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40 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Not plywood for the deck. 2X6 with at least a half inch in between for drainage.

 Even PT 3/4" ply would only last a year where Tom lives.

(yeah, the 1/2" gaps are hell on stiletto heels, but so is spongy ground.)

Good plan. 

If he's going to get some 16 foot PT 4 x 12s, he may as well get ten 16 foot PT 2 x 6s at the same time and lay them lengthways, with as you say at least 1/2" in between. Include a good drainage gap at the two edges.

Stiletto heels - YMMV.  Give 'er some Crocs!

On the joist hangers, it might be an idea to drill out some of the holes and for each one replace 2 of the wood screws with lag screws.

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Tom originally asked "Has anyone done this?"  Well, yes, actually, which is what prompted my reply.

I grew up (?) in my parents' big leaky old stone house in the Isle of Wight.  Bisecting the 20 acres was a small creek, mostly in a 15-foot deep gorge.  In the late 60s the very ancient footbridges had become downright scary, so I remember as a nipper helping build two new ones.  One had to carry the weight of an old Series I Land Rover (about 3,000 lbs) so we built a wooden truss bridge.  It was about 25 feet long. 

Not an arch (which I had preferred) mainly because Dad, quite rightly, said straight timber was easier to work on site.  Hand tools only, by the way, except for a chain saw.

The other one was 10 feet longer but lighter (foot traffic and sheep) and had two deep timber girders, about 24" deep I think, made up of staggered pieces bolted together.

Both were planked crossways with drainage gaps and had a 3-foot wide piece of 1/2" ply lengthways down the middle which we had to put on to stop the sheep freaking out when they saw water down there through the gaps.  Truly dumb beasts.  There was also a fine wire netting mesh stapled to the ply deck to stop the sheep sliding about in the winter.  We replaced the ply and wire about every ten years, but the basic structures are still there I think, nearly 50 years later.

No handrails of course.

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What you want to do, is to hop on Craigslist and buy an old semi trailer flatbed.

Take a torch and cut all of the suspension and other stuff off of the frame.

And then you have a handy dandy modular bridge.

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2 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

Why do people think building bridges would be a fun weekend project from Home Depot?

I think it might be the same sickness that makes them build boats when there's a huge Zombie fleet that needs rescuing.

I don't have that sickness and just want to own boats and just want to have a bridge in that spot. It would be nice to gaze at a pretty bridge like the one in Left8's picture and nice to create such a thing, I guess. What I really want is a better place from which to view the spring. The sand swirls around like a big lava lamp as the water comes up. So I don't really care that much what the bridge looks like. The spring is the thing.

I want it to be able to carry the cart just for convenience in lawn maintenance.

Speaking of Home Despot projects, I'm also replacing my little fixed dock and my floating dock.

PondDocks.jpg

The floating dock began acquiring that striking sheer line when that board fell in the water. It's 18 years old. I'm going to make another like it, plus one that will be anchored out with Purple Martin nests.

I tore the deck off the fixed dock last night. I put it there about 20 years ago. Those pilings and stringers were put there by my dad and his brother, both now deceased, in the 1980's. The "pilings" appear to me to be old fence posts. Using some old fence posts that were sitting around since the 1970's would be normal behavior for my dad.

I tapped those posts with my crowbar and they made it ping all the way down to the bottom. No apparent rot at all after over 30 years in that spot. I was planning to replace them just because they're old. Now I'm planning to keep them because they ain't broke.

WTF did they treat fence posts with back then and why can't I get it any more?

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2 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

I think it might be the same sickness that makes them build boats when there's a huge Zombie fleet that needs rescuing.

I don't have that sickness and just want to own boats and just want to have a bridge in that spot. It would be nice to gaze at a pretty bridge like the one in Left8's picture and nice to create such a thing, I guess. What I really want is a better place from which to view the spring. The sand swirls around like a big lava lamp as the water comes up. So I don't really care that much what the bridge looks like. The spring is the thing.

I want it to be able to carry the cart just for convenience in lawn maintenance.

Speaking of Home Despot projects, I'm also replacing my little fixed dock and my floating dock.

PondDocks.jpg

The floating dock began acquiring that striking sheer line when that board fell in the water. It's 18 years old. I'm going to make another like it, plus one that will be anchored out with Purple Martin nests.

I tore the deck off the fixed dock last night. I put it there about 20 years ago. Those pilings and stringers were put there by my dad and his brother, both now deceased, in the 1980's. The "pilings" appear to me to be old fence posts. Using some old fence posts that were sitting around since the 1970's would be normal behavior for my dad.

I tapped those posts with my crowbar and they made it ping all the way down to the bottom. No apparent rot at all after over 30 years in that spot. I was planning to replace them just because they're old. Now I'm planning to keep them because they ain't broke.

WTF did they treat fence posts with back then and why can't I get it any more?

Could be the same thing they treated the railroad ties with.  Creosote/coal tar, I believe.  Can't get  it cause its suspected carcinogen, like everything else that works well.

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Where I live Tanalith E is used to treat timber, it is done under high pressure and totally impregnates the timber, I have seen 40yr old gum poles with minimal weathering after standing in fresh water for the best part of 4 decades.

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1 hour ago, Jammer Six said:

Drink some of that water, right between two of the posts and report back. If you can stand to drink a full cup, you can still get the chemical they used. If it burns like battery acid going down, makes your throat slam shut and forces you to snort the shit out through your nose, you can't get it anymore.

Now that I think about it, though, by 1980, the really bad stuff, the stuff where you needed two new pairs of gloves each day was gone. It's probably a chemical we referred to as "penta" in one commercial form or another. That won't burn your throat for fifteen or twenty minutes.

The green on the far post tells me those post aren't in as good a shape as you think they are. Shit can grow on them. I'd hold your tapping evaluation skills suspect. The tops appear to be straight up creosote, which you can get a watered-down version at Home Depot to this day.

The spring flows about 50-60 gallons per minute and it's a small pond, so pretty diluted.

As I mentioned, just because he used it them the 80's doesn't mean my dad bought those posts in the 80's. They look a lot like the posts from a fence he installed in the 70's.

It's Florida. If there's a surface, stuff of various colors can grow on it. My dad put roofing tar in various places when the dock was new and I added some more in the 1990's. Now I have to get really hard, old roofing tar from around the lag bolts to remove the old boards from the posts. The good news: it worked and the heads look fine, showing a bit of galvanizing and no rust.

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1 hour ago, Jammer Six said:

P.S. The number one cause of lost time injuries in construction is nails in the foot. Because some untrained moron pulled boards off of something with a crowbar and, lacking either imagination, the ability to think ahead or the experience to know how the cow ate the cabbage, just dropped them, without at least bending the nails over.

That floating dock is aground. So yeah, if anyone happens to wander into thigh-deep water and hop up onto it, he might step on one. Glad you pointed that out!

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That must be the famous Tacoma Narrows Gorge bridge, remember being shown a video of it in first year engineering, how not to design and build things......

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You're all overthinking it a bit.

This is all ya gunna need

 

$_75.JPG

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On 9/23/2018 at 5:53 AM, Ease the sheet. said:

And my "local gov planning office" suggestion was just me being facetious, knowing your opinions on such things.

 

But seriously,  a few 6 or 8ft diameter concrete pipes with a timber platform on top will do the job. Because of the depth, length and required strength,  its not going to be a "Flyin Hawaiian" type build

But depending on what sort of water we are looking at, the local gov planning office is the best answer. Is that a pond on your property? Build away. Is that a drain that crosses your property? Better talk to the county drain commission.  Had a guy near me put a perfectly good bridge over a drain without a permit. In the end he paid a hefty fine and had to remove the bridge. 

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1 hour ago, Major Tom said:

That must be the famous Tacoma Narrows Gorge bridge, remember being shown a video of it in first year engineering, how not to design and build things......

Exactamundo.  

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2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Post are probably either CCA (Chromate Coper Arsenate) or Pentachlorophenol.  

Just a reminder that CCA becomes much more dangerous if burned.   The old decking may be CCA too.  http://www.lcaqmd.net/DangeroustoBurnTreated.htm

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

Just a reminder that CCA becomes much more dangerous if burned.   The old decking may be CCA too.  http://www.lcaqmd.net/DangeroustoBurnTreated.htm

 

 

Shit. That pile was headed toward the burn pile. Now what? They say to landfill it or re-use it. Considering I can break most of those 2x6's by hand and I'm not exactly a bodybuilder, I'd say they're used up. I hate sending stuff to the landfill. I think I might just toss them in the swamp.

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2 hours ago, chinabald said:

Is that a pond on your property? Build away. Is that a drain that crosses your property? Better talk to the county drain commission. 

It's on my property but the water doesn't stay on the property. The pond is a drain sump for the spring. Water flows out the spring, through the pond, and out a drain that skims the surface at the other end of the pond. That drain puts it in a ditch, which flows into the swamp, which flows into the creek, to the river, to the harbor, to the Gulf. I own the swamp but not the creek.

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3 hours ago, Major Tom said:

That must be the famous Tacoma Narrows Gorge bridge, remember being shown a video of it in first year engineering, how not to design and build things......

i have the same recollection. physics class 1st yer engineering.

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5 hours ago, chinabald said:

But depending on what sort of water we are looking at, the local gov planning office is the best answer. Is that a pond on your property? Build away. Is that a drain that crosses your property? Better talk to the county drain commission.  Had a guy near me put a perfectly good bridge over a drain without a permit. In the end he paid a hefty fine and had to remove the bridge. 

check you property plat and see if there is an easement...  no easement, do what the fuck ever you want..

 

Die-Rakotzbr%C3%BCck-or-Devil%E2%80%99s-

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My grandmother  stopped on one side , parked her car and watched all this from shore

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3 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

Shit. That pile was headed toward the burn pile. Now what? They say to landfill it or re-use it. Considering I can break most of those 2x6's by hand and I'm not exactly a bodybuilder, I'd say they're used up. I hate sending stuff to the landfill. I think I might just toss them in the swamp.

Don't toss 'em into the swamp.

 Put them on the side of the road with a sign saying "Good lumber. $25" They'll be gone overnight.

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I know it’s a bit of a post drift, but fairly recently the millennium bridge across the Thames in London suffered from wobbling caused by pedestrian vibrations, it cost an embarrassing 5 million quid to solve the problem!.

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Can you plop an old fero boat in the swamp and simply flatten the topsides a bit?

Call it boat storage if anyone asks.

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Lots of fancy expensive solutions being suggested here to build a 20 foot light duty bridge in a forest of tall trees. 

How about this: drop 2 logs across the span, lay slats across them, build up some dirt/gravel at both ends ... and shazaam! You got a bridge!

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9 hours ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

My grandmother  stopped on one side , parked her car and watched all this from shore

I was aboard a Foss tug for the tow and placement of one of the caissons for the new bridge. The positioning anchors for the caisson were fouled several times on the old bridge on the bottom, requiring divers to go down. Fascinating trip, best of times.

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9 hours ago, wristwister said:

Lots of fancy expensive solutions being suggested here to build a 20 foot light duty bridge in a forest of tall trees. 

How about this: drop 2 logs across the span, lay slats across them, build up some dirt/gravel at both ends ... and shazaam! You got a bridge!

I have a bridge over the ditch that was made basically that way, but I didn't use a tree. A neighbor gave me a phone pole. In that case, I was able to make a coarse gravel bed for the ends and keep them well above water so the ends don't stay wet. It's a little over ten years old and I drive over it all the time.

I can get another phone pole or cut down a couple of my trees but can't figure out a way to keep the ends dry.

The bridge over the ditch that I'm replacing, a tiny bit of which is visible in the topic pic, died from wet ends. I probably drove over it longer than I should have but it's a very short span and there's not room for the entire cart to fall into the ditch. So I figured I could tow my cart off the bridge wreckage if it fell.

I can get my cart out of the pond with my neighbor's backhoe but don't want to try it. I don't want to drive up to it in 15 years and wonder, "Just how rotted are the parts I can't inspect?" Really don't want to learn the answer with a splash.

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8 hours ago, Grabbler said:

Fuck the bridge...you just need a bigger golf cart...

64b22401d493d8e096cb700aa8b9916e.jpg

Golf cart?  What golf cart? 

Oooooooh, behind the swimsuit.  Gotcha.

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17 hours ago, Major Tom said:

I know it’s a bit of a post drift, but fairly recently the millennium bridge across the Thames in London suffered from wobbling caused by pedestrian vibrations, it cost an embarrassing 5 million quid to solve the problem!.

hold ma' beer son...     a fake bridge, went cheap on it, now can't use it..   $115mil

Quote

Dallas spend $115 million on what is basically a decoration rather than a functioning piece of infrastructure, then get even the decoration so wrong and so fundamentally flawed that it now is unsafe .

Flanking those two on their outside borders are two gigantic arches designed by Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava. The arches were placed to create the false impression that all four structures together are really one big suspension bridge.

It’s a fake suspension bridge. The state bridges cost $120 million. The decorative arches cost $115 million more.

supervising engineer will not certify the basic safety of the structures.

When this issue first came to light, city staffers were quick to point fingers at the architect, the state and the state’s construction contractors. But email traffic unearthed by Griggs showed that at least one important problem — elements cracking in high winds — seemed to be directly connected to an insistence by city staff on cheaper parts than the ones Calatrava had called for. The city also skipped stress tests on the new cheaper pieces, over Calatrava’s objections.

 

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14 hours ago, wristwister said:

Lots of fancy expensive solutions being suggested here to build a 20 foot light duty bridge in a forest of tall trees. 

How about this: drop 2 logs across the span, lay slats across them, build up some dirt/gravel at both ends ... and shazaam! You got a bridge!

 

can do it with  10 2"x6" and 5 cross pieces..   how much cheaper can you get?

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7 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

hold ma' beer son...     a fake bridge, went cheap on it, now can't use it..   $115mil

 

Ouch!

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13 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

You might not find the splash funny, but everyone else will!

I was thinking about this and disassembling the old fixed dock and...

42701928_10215060873109270_8019740836931

I wonder if I could get enough YouTube views to finance the 6 seat golf cart of my dreams?

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8 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

I was thinking about this and disassembling the old fixed dock and...

42701928_10215060873109270_8019740836931

I wonder if I could get enough YouTube views to finance the 6 seat golf cart of my dreams?

Macke it specialle......

:)

 

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In other news, the local metal shop guy has built similar bridges for golf courses. He says that to span 20' unsupported, I need a really big, expensive beam. He says a 10" aluminum beam on each side will work if I put pilings mid-span for support. He said they'd be about $2,200 for the pair.

 

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23 hours ago, wristwister said:

Lots of fancy expensive solutions being suggested here to build a 20 foot light duty bridge in a forest of tall trees. 

How about this: drop 2 logs across the span, lay slats across them, build up some dirt/gravel at both ends ... and shazaam! You got a bridge!

SYP will turn into paper pulp in 6 months in that pond. It's the most rot prone wood I ever saw outside of Eastern Hemlock.

 

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6 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

I was thinking about this and disassembling the old fixed dock and...

42701928_10215060873109270_8019740836931

I wonder if I could get enough YouTube views to finance the 6 seat golf cart of my dreams?

Perhaps not. Maybe if you edit in some footage of a disinterested cat watching you? Everyone loves cats!

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6 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

Just bend your damn nails over. For the dog.

She's 9 and I doubt she could get up onto that dock when she was much younger.

She's the reason I threw the old boards on the dock instead of on the lawn.

Really, no one, including the dog, is getting on that dock ever again. I'm saving the barrels for the next docks but all that wood is outta here. Still deciding exactly what outta here means.

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Tom,

why not build a dock.  a dock is essentially a bridge.  use pressure treated pilings and wash/jet them in.  four in the center in a rectangle 6 feet wide and 8 feet apart with two more 8 feet away on the shore. use some diagonals to create a truss of sorts for the center of the 8foot span  and then deck it with 2x6 planks.  on the outer edge put in a railing or 6x6'  as a "curb" to keep the carts from rolling off the edge.

i found this on a quick search  of golf cart bridges... its almost the span you need.  probably a bit over built but since it doesn't have any support in the center the span beams are pretty large   

LAMOINE+DRAW+BRIDGE+ASBUILT.jpg

bridge.pdf

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2 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

Tom,

why not build a dock.  a dock is essentially a bridge.  use pressure treated pilings and wash/jet them in.  four in the center in a rectangle 6 feet wide and 8 feet apart with two more 8 feet away on the shore. use some diagonals to create a truss of sorts for the center of the 8foot span  and then deck it with 2x6 planks.  on the outer edge put in a railing or 6x6'  as a "curb" to keep the carts from rolling off the edge.

i found this on a quick search  of golf cart bridges... its almost the span you need.  probably a bit over built but since it doesn't have any support in the center the span beams are pretty large   

LAMOINE+DRAW+BRIDGE+ASBUILT.jpg

bridge.pdf

Tom, this application cries out for bull rails.

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On 9/25/2018 at 11:01 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

hold ma' beer son...     a fake bridge, went cheap on it, now can't use it..   $115mil

 

The Dallas City gov't can't find their ass with a map and a guide dog

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Since nobody else has said it, "But do they call me Tom the bridge Builder? No. But fuck one goat...."

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On 9/25/2018 at 7:57 PM, dogballs Tom said:

I was thinking about this and disassembling the old fixed dock and...

42701928_10215060873109270_8019740836931

I wonder if I could get enough YouTube views to finance the 6 seat golf cart of my dreams?

String a cable and use it as a ferry?  
;-) 

 

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Someone I know who has a strong background in engineering and construction was telling me how they built bridges to move equipment over ditches where pilings were not an option. Unfortunately, he explained all this mostly in woodworker and engineer. I speak a bit of conversational woodworker and almost no engineer, so he was speaking in tongues.

Later, I cornered him and shoved an envelope and pen into his hand and said, "Explain that again and draw it."

This is what I got:

PondBridgeTruss.jpg

He was very clear and emphatic that he did NOT want his name in any way associated with this because, "when I do a drawing, I do a real drawing."

The lower beam is a sandwich of three boards, the middle one going up to the truss rail or whatever that one on the top is called. That's what he was showing me on the right.

This is the first plan that got any kind of positive reaction from my wife, so it may be a keeper. I'm going to need a better drawing though. I still don't know exactly how some of it is supposed to go together.

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16 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Someone I know who has a strong background in engineering and construction was telling me how they built bridges to move equipment over ditches where pilings were not an option. Unfortunately, he explained all this mostly in woodworker and engineer. I speak a bit of conversational woodworker and almost no engineer, so he was speaking in tongues.

Later, I cornered him and shoved an envelope and pen into his hand and said, "Explain that again and draw it."

This is what I got:

PondBridgeTruss.jpg

He was very clear and emphatic that he did NOT want his name in any way associated with this because, "when I do a drawing, I do a real drawing."

The lower beam is a sandwich of three boards, the middle one going up to the truss rail or whatever that one on the top is called. That's what he was showing me on the right.

This is the first plan that got any kind of positive reaction from my wife, so it may be a keeper. I'm going to need a better drawing though. I still don't know exactly how some of it is supposed to go together.

It's a truss bridge, what's complicated about it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_bridge

FKT

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38 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Someone I know who has a strong background in engineering and construction was telling me how they built bridges to move equipment over ditches where pilings were not an option. Unfortunately, he explained all this mostly in woodworker and engineer. I speak a bit of conversational woodworker and almost no engineer, so he was speaking in tongues.

Later, I cornered him and shoved an envelope and pen into his hand and said, "Explain that again and draw it."

This is what I got:

 

He was very clear and emphatic that he did NOT want his name in any way associated with this because, "when I do a drawing, I do a real drawing."

The lower beam is a sandwich of three boards, the middle one going up to the truss rail or whatever that one on the top is called. That's what he was showing me on the right.

This is the first plan that got any kind of positive reaction from my wife, so it may be a keeper. I'm going to need a better drawing though. I still don't know exactly how some of it is supposed to go together.

or you could add a third middle beam as in the Lamoine drawing above  and not have to worry about  doing the truss

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1 hour ago, dogballs Tom said:

Someone I know who has a strong background in engineering and construction was telling me how they built bridges to move equipment over ditches where pilings were not an option. Unfortunately, he explained all this mostly in woodworker and engineer. I speak a bit of conversational woodworker and almost no engineer, so he was speaking in tongues.

Later, I cornered him and shoved an envelope and pen into his hand and said, "Explain that again and draw it."

This is what I got:

PondBridgeTruss.jpg

He was very clear and emphatic that he did NOT want his name in any way associated with this because, "when I do a drawing, I do a real drawing."

The lower beam is a sandwich of three boards, the middle one going up to the truss rail or whatever that one on the top is called. That's what he was showing me on the right.

This is the first plan that got any kind of positive reaction from my wife, so it may be a keeper. I'm going to need a better drawing though. I still don't know exactly how some of it is supposed to go together.

It looks heavy,    You would drill out a number of small circles to lighten the build, improving its off wind performance.  

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

It's a truss bridge, what's complicated about it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_bridge

FKT

Nothing too complicated, I'm sure, just things I don't know.

For example, exactly what happens at the ends of that W structure? And what size lumber should all the pieces be? Bolts? How much distance should separate the upper and lower pieces? You know, details.

My friend "does a real drawing." I wouldn't know how to read one, most likely. When I do a drawing, I draw until I have in mind how to make what I'm making then quit drawing and start making.

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3 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

or you could add a third middle beam as in the Lamoine drawing above  and not have to worry about  doing the truss

Those are 12" by 24" beams, each 20' long. Yes, that would probably do it. Off wind performance would be miserable.

Those are seriously heavy beams. My brother works for the only place around here that might have such things, so I can have him get me a price. If they do have them. I have a feeling that the pile of lumber and bolts to make a truss bridge is going to cost less and do better off the wind.

 

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6 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

Nothing too complicated, I'm sure, just things I don't know.

For example, exactly what happens at the ends of that W structure? And what size lumber should all the pieces be? Bolts? How much distance should separate the upper and lower pieces? You know, details.

It's all on line somewhere - I know I've got a US military engineering field manual somewhere with details of how to make such a bridge from field expedient materials.

Honestly the easiest thing is to pay your engineer buddy for a bill of materials and a few drawings. If you can't manage to read them, building the thing is going to also be beyond your level of competence anyway. Pulling sizes out of my arse I'd likely use 250 x 50 for the bottom horizontals and 200 x 50 for the diagonals & top horizontals. Not sure on tying the 2 sides together, that would require some thought - depends on the desired width & max load.

Personally I'd use a welded steel structure but I have all that gear already. Treated wood would probably be quicker in fact.

FKT

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6 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

Those are 12" by 24" beams, each 20' long. Yes, that would probably do it. Off wind performance would be miserable.

Those are seriously heavy beams. My brother works for the only place around here that might have such things, so I can have him get me a price. If they do have them. I have a feeling that the pile of lumber and bolts to make a truss bridge is going to cost less and do better off the wind.

 

Yeah, and it’s probablay overbuilt as are all govt contracts.  Could you get by with two beams that happen to be the track Width of your standard golf cart.  

What about an engineered wood I beam. 

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Tom if you really want to start building bridges, throw all you dogballs into the lake and renounce you gun nuttery. 

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Build a garage on the other side of the creek/pond and leave a vehicle there.  You may have a long one time drive around the get there.  Then you only have to get people across the water.  A Tarzan vine and a PFD might work.  Swing the gas can over too.

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On 9/22/2018 at 5:06 PM, dogballs Tom said:

Has anyone done this? I've made a couple of small ones. Now I'm thinking of making one here:

PondBridgeSite.jpg

From where the pic is taken, I want to be able to drive my golf cart down that grass ahead. It's about 20 feet from shore to shore. The cart with four adults aboard probably weighs 1,600 lbs. I've thought of using aluminum beams, using plastic barrels to make a pontoon bridge, putting concrete piers out in the water, even a small suspension bridge. That's an artesian spring on the left. It's not quite as bad as salt water when it comes to rusting things that are made of steel, but is close. So no steel. What would you do?

PM Grumpy !!

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On 9/23/2018 at 4:28 AM, More Cowbell2 said:

Put this bridge in 10 years ago to connect one side of our property to the other. Got tired of the kids getting stuck in the muck when they were building their fort on the other side.

20180923_071827.jpg

would you care to foster 5+ FUCKING RACCOONS ??

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9 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

Yeah, and it’s probablay overbuilt as are all govt contracts.  Could you get by with two beams that happen to be the track Width of your standard golf cart.  

What about an engineered wood I beam. 

My other bridge was made by putting two pieces of a phone pole across the ditch and putting a deck on it. Um, after extensive paid consultation with a pro engineer. Or not.  So yes, I know that can be done because that bridge has been in use for years. But it's spanning about 12 feet, not 20.

I'm afraid the FL climate would quickly de-engineer any engineered wood beam.

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