MauiPunter

Delivery vs Shipping between UK and East Coast US

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I'm curious about the costs of delivering a 60' yacht between the UK and the East Coast vs shipping it.  Time is not an issue, just looking at overall costs.  Thoughts?

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Are you talking paying for it either way?

One way to look at sailing across is you need food you were going to eat anyway and some gas. So in that sense it is close to free.

If the boat is not equipped for the passage, add $. If you need to pay crew, add $.

Missed work and airfare, add $. Insurance, add $.

So add that up and then call Dockwise and compare ;)

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28 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Are you talking paying for it either way?

One way to look at sailing across is you need food you were going to eat anyway and some gas. So in that sense it is close to free.

If the boat is not equipped for the passage, add $. If you need to pay crew, add $.

Missed work and airfare, add $. Insurance, add $.

So add that up and then call Dockwise and compare ;)

You also need to add in the airfares for the crew so that they can get back home.

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westbound?

usual westbound route is to Canaries.., to Caribbean.., to New England.., so a lot of miles. You can certainly cut miles off  - at the risk of motoring a lot.., and/or maybe less comfortable conditions

The main reason to sail it over is because you want to sail it over- not to save money. 

It's a fun trip, with the right boat and the right crew, but it's a big time commitment.

 

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I'm talking about paying for it, whether its shipping or getting it delivered.    Lets say for delivery, it would be the most direct route to Newport RI, for example.

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13 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

I'm talking about paying for it, whether its shipping or getting it delivered.    Lets say for delivery, it would be the most direct route to Newport RI, for example.

Are you aware of the prevailing wind and currents for that route? 

I doubt that many delivery crews will take the route you’re proposing. Put it on a ship and save the wear and tear on the boat. 

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13 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

the most direct route to Newport RI

the most direct route is pretty much upwind...

have you looked at the Jimmy Cornell book? he has brief discussions of most of the possible routes, and you will get an idea of what a delivery captain will be thinking... also - look at the pilot charts.

If the boat is in the UK now, and you want it in Newport next spring.., and are thinking of having it sailed there.., preparations should probably be underway now or soon.

Shipping it would be way simpler.., depending on schedule/availability/port of loading

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I'm just curious about costs.  Forget the route then.  Whatever makes the most sense between UK and Newport/RI?   Just trying to get some ballpark figures on cost.   There must be some people on this forum who have delivered/shipped a boat from UK to East Coast before.  What were your costs?

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2 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

I'm just curious about costs.  Forget the route then.  Whatever makes the most sense between UK and Newport/RI?   Just trying to get some ballpark figures on cost.   There must be some people on this forum who have delivered/shipped a boat from UK to East Coast before.  What were your costs?

What type of boat, age, condition etc?  

Race boat, cruiser, classic. Does it have all the safety gear, auto pilot etc,  etc. 

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i got a quote for a 40ft boat 2 years ago - USD 17-20K.., depending

60ft would be 2 or 3X

you can have a detailed quote in a few hours monday morning.

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Performance cruiser. 60' Has all the gear.  New Sails. 5 years old.

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1 minute ago, us7070 said:

i got a quote for a 40ft boat 2 years ago - USD 17-20K.., depending

60ft would be 2 or 3X

you can have a detailed quote in a few hours monday morning.

Thanks.  

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Just now, MauiPunter said:

Thanks.  

in case it wasn't clear - that quote is for having it shipped.

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8 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

I'm just curious about costs.  Forget the route then.  Whatever makes the most sense between UK and Newport/RI?   Just trying to get some ballpark figures on cost.   There must be some people on this forum who have delivered/shipped a boat from UK to East Coast before.  What were your costs?

It's been quite awhile, but shipping is what you want.

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1 minute ago, doghouse said:

It's been quite awhile, but shipping is what you want.

That is what I was thinking but wanted to double check on the delivery costs just incase it was a big difference one way or the other.

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the logistics of the westbound delivery UK to New England are tough enough that you really have to have a good reason for having the boat sailed

either you want to do the trip yourself - as i said it can be a lot of fun - but, you say you don't want to do it...

the other good reason would be to have the boat in the caribbean for the winter - a delivery crew could have the boat in say antigua by christmas.

basically the issues for a delivery are this:

you need to be on the way to the canaries pretty soon - December is kind of late for UK-Las Palmas

the delivery across could be any time until late spring. if you waited that long you might do canaries - bermuda - newport, but then maybe you would haul the boat in the canaries for the winter - unless you want to cruise there.

alternatively, the crew could leave las palmas right away for the caribbean.., but if you aren't using the boat there, you'd probably want to haul it til it's time to leave for newport in the spring. i'd probably rather haul in the canaries and have the boat brought across in the spring.

shipping is way easier

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Since delivery is by the day/mile, you really would be out $$$ unless you tank up and go straight through Azores>Bermuda>here. Lot of light air unless you go north and then it is a beat. You would want to leave soon to avoid fall/winter gales.

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Thanks for the advice on delivery.   Doesn't sound like the preferred way to go cost wise.  Definitely interested in ballpark on shipping cost.

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I looked at a delivery for a 52'er. Dockwise (?) wanted to know TOTAL LOA, draft, beam, displacement and ports East coast & West coast.

Turns out the fastest & cheapest way to do it would be to sail it part of the way, have it picked up at an intermediate port and then shipped the rest of the way.

What this suggests is that you might find that shipping it part of the way (to Bermuda? or Nova Scotia?) and then sailing it the remainder of the way would give you the best of both worlds in terms of time & money.

Maybe.

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Shipping 70 to 100 k 

Delivery As well as all the costs of a delivery eg skipper crew food diesel you have to allow for wear and tear on the boat. 6000 miles sailing

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if i recall.., i think i found that sevenstar had the most options for schedules, and ports at both ends. I've seen sevenstar ships in newport.

my brother had his boat shipped with dockwise and was pretty happy - but we had to get the boat from newport to ft lauderdale for an eastbound trip to the med.

there is also DYT.. i think i've seen them in newport too

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I'll check those guys out.

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If shipping it, also need to consider

-- yard and labor to pull the rig, haul the boat, prep the boat and contents for loading (+ cradle?)
-- yard and labor to put it all back together at the other end.

for a 60-footer, I'm guessing those won't be trivial - it was a week of (my) labor, plus several $k of yard costs just to get my 32-footer on/off a truck.

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1 hour ago, Parma said:

don't most boat transport co's ship rig up?

Dockwise does. Cheapest way across is probably a light-up wind delivery with lots of spare fuel.

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Peters and May do a lot of shipping of yachts, AFAIK they move the TP52s around, they also ship from the UK to the Caribbean, might be worthwhile getting a quote from them as well.

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If you want an actual hard quote on a delivery, Try giving PYD (http://www.pydww.co.uk) a call/email on Monday - I know a number of skippers/mates who have worked for them and they are good people, and they are large enough to have an office/shore support to give you a quick price/timeframe on the sailing delivery.

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Recently shipped the Class40 from Newport to the UK. 47 feet LOA with the sprit. If she can sit on her keel, you can use their poppies.  Mast up, keel on. $21,000 usd. 

 

Sailing or, an option west to east in the north Atlantic, would have been 3 crew for 15 days each.  Call it $13 k.  Three tickets home and transat flights are pretty steep at the moment so call it $5 k.  Food at $700. Fuel at charging amounts and a couple of slow days would be maybe $250. Crew Housing for a couple of days on either end at maybe $1500 if a couple crew share a room.  Satellite time at some number

So basically a push before you consider wear and tear.

 

 

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Excellent feedback.  Thanks guys!!

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Seven Star posts their rough schedules. 

https://www.sevenstar-yacht-transport.com/schedules

 

I expect this to be $50k to $60k for your yacht - mast up.

You also need to factor in Delivery to Departure and from Arrival ports if they are not local.

Its a tough time of year to deliver on its own bottom. 

I expect a delivery Captain would charge you around $35k maybe $40k -  all in for the trip including food, fuel and flights.  If you find someone much cheaper then you don't want them in charge of your asset for almost 2 months!

Add $10k for wear and tear if all goes well. One shot sail and this jumps right up.

It makes the shipping charge seem reasonable since all your boat needs this end is a wash and a buff instead of a mini refit if its a rough trip.

Also how much are you willing to pay to sleep well at night while you yacht is on a ship for ten days instead of in the hands of a delivery skipper for two months??

Also we haven't even added in making sure the yacht is seaworthy and safety equipment is good to go.

I like to do deliveries and have no affiliation with any shipping company but I would take the ship.

Also Seven Star bought Dockwise Yacht Transport  (DYT) a while ago, so now it is really just them and Peters & May.

https://www.boatinternational.com/yacht-market-intelligence/brokerage-sales-news/superyacht-mover-merger-sevenstar-yacht-transport-buys-dockwise-yacht-transport--18163

 

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Sell the old boat and buy a better one where you want a boat.  If you have someone sail it?  The "new" five year young sails will be new when you get the boat to wherever.  Total cost of the trip all in.  Likely more than the value of the boat with "new" five year old sails.  

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1 hour ago, Canal Bottom said:

Sell the old boat and buy a better one where you want a boat.  If you have someone sail it?  The "new" five year young sails will be new when you get the boat to wherever.  Total cost of the trip all in.  Likely more than the value of the boat with "new" five year old sails.  

There is that. I was once going to fly an airplane to Scotland when we discovered the USA cost of the airplane + gear and gas to fly to Scotland = price of same airplane in Scotland minus sitting in the thing for 20 hours over cold water :rolleyes:

I have no idea if this is an ancient $20,000 boat or a $2,000,000 boat, but if this boat has no amazing unique property and the delivery is a significant fraction of the value of the boat, it might be cheaper to just buy another one given the owner appears uninterested in doing the trip.

YMMV

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Many of us have had bad experiences with yacht shipping companies, to the point that if there is ever any consideration to making a delivery on a yachts own bottom, we factor in a much higher shipping and secondary insurance costs to cover the cost of the unanticipated, which happens so frequently, we consider it a given.  Most everyone has a horror story.

There is also an often-overlooked provision in shipping contracts know as “General Average”.  You should Google the maritime law definition, which should scare shit out of you.  You will find people who will likely tell you that yacht shipping companies and the owners of the ships they sometimes charter don’t enforce the provision.  Those people likely work for yacht shipping companies or are trying to sell you something.  The test is to ask that the provision be removed from your shipping contract.  Good luck.

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The General Average will not be removed from your contract. No ship owner nor their insurer would in their right mind allow that. However for a small cost you can get a rider on your insurance to cover your transportation. This rider covers General Average. 

A decent Shipping agent will always ask you to get a shipping rider and will invariably make sure it covers everything. 

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The shipping quotes i got all included insurance above my existing insurance for damage during shipping.

There may be horror stories out there.., but I haven't heard any...

probably thousands of yachts a year are transported on large ships.., and most are probably fine. of course, you could get unlucky.., but that could happen with a delivery too.

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