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ribber

Help identify this daysailer?

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Carl Alberg did some fin keel designs. 

For example, the SC21.   I dont recognize your boat but it has some elements of his work.

sc21a.jpg.4dc24aab5b33b4c4254b1b90339a1c57.jpg

 

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4 hours ago, nota said:

funky rudder shape

 

The Picasso school of foil design.

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5 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Corinthian ^^^^

no, I know Corinthians, my FIL had one.  They have a full keel with the rudder mounted on the aft end of the keel.  There's a couple of them in the same boatyard as mine.  No window in the front of the cabin either. But the thing I'm trying to ID is the first one. 

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As in American football.

Go for the wide pass on that one

 

Alberg didn’t draw a sheer that strong or a shitty partial skeg hung rudder.

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12 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

As in American football.

Go for the wide pass on that one

 

Alberg didn’t draw a sheer that strong or a shitty partial skeg hung rudder.

Alberg (one of my heroes and I own a restored Alberg SeaSprite) designed beautiful seaworthy boats but he was also prepared to play around the edges and he did do a couple of terrible rudders.  The rudder that you see on that SC 21 is not the original rudder that Alberg designed. It was "back to the drawing board"  for that one.

Alberg was a prolific designer and he has a large and not fully recorded portfolio. Did the seller have a name for the design that we could verify?

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I’m referring to the OP, not the Sea Sprite. 

Restored many Ensigns, own a new one now and have had the great Vanguard.

Alberg drew beautiful boats, I just don’t think the op is one. That’s the partial skeg hung rudder I’m referring to, not the spade rudder on the Sea Sprite.

 

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14 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I’m referring to the OP, not the Sea Sprite. 

Restored many Ensigns, own a new one now and have had the great Vanguard.

Alberg drew beautiful boats, I just don’t think the op is one. That’s the partial skeg hung rudder I’m referring to, not the spade rudder on the Sea Sprite.

 

The Vanguard came from Phil Rhodes office.

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Is it me or does it appear that there are bolt heads sticking out the bottom of the hull just forward of the rudder post. Like there was a skeg there maybe but it broke odd and the weird strut holding the rudder shaft is a crappy fix? I cant imagine that strut could hold up to that weird shaped rudder.

Otherwise a neat looking boat if you are into that style.

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That looks longer than 17' more like 21' or so...the flush deck, overhangs and through deck tiller/rudder and v-shape spray deflector hint at Sparkman & Stephans particularly the Manhasset Bay One Design...S&S were messing with fin keels early on....in the Indian Harbor Arrow

I suspect it could be a prototype or a custom maybe last of one design created by S&S for a single yacht club...

 

indian_harbor_arrow_class_drawing.jpg

arrow_class_drawing.jpg

manhasset_bay_one-design_drawing.jpg

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The OP's boat has a deck mounted mast.unlike the S&S designs posted.  still cant place the OP's boat.

 

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46 minutes ago, GTim said:

Is it me or does it appear that there are bolt heads sticking out the bottom of the hull just forward of the rudder post. Like there was a skeg there maybe but it broke odd and the weird strut holding the rudder shaft is a crappy fix? I cant imagine that strut could hold up to that weird shaped rudder.

Otherwise a neat looking boat if you are into that style.

yeah, skeg replacement had occurred to me too.  I didn't see this myself, I'm passing along the question from a friend who asked me for help identifying it.  Says the HIN begins with "NMG" which seems to correspond to a builder named  "Naval Marine Group LLC" that's out of business and doesn't even appear on sailboatdata.

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1 hour ago, slap said:

The Vanguard came from Phil Rhodes office.

You’re right, my bad! I was just thinking about that and said to myself”not every boat Everett Pearson built was an Alberg. Of course it’s a Rhodes. The sheer tells it all!!!

Thanks for the spanks!

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52 minutes ago, EvaOdland said:

That looks longer than 17' more like 21' or so...the flush deck, overhangs and through deck tiller/rudder and v-shape spray deflector hint at Sparkman & Stephans particularly the Manhasset Bay One Design...S&S were messing with fin keels early on....in the Indian Harbor Arrow

I suspect it could be a prototype or a custom maybe last of one design created by S&S for a single yacht club...

 

 

 

 

The S&S suggestion got me looking.  Maybe: the Fleet-o-wing http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5185 with a keel replacement? 
imagehelper.asp?file_id=9099

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Not enough deck aft of the cockpit to be an O-wing...but I think you're right re it used to be a full keel/attached rudder, and had had a keel mod.  Crazy brace on rudder is there to replace lower bearing from bottom of formerly attached keel?

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I was wrong once on this thread so I hope I’m not wrong again, but there can be no way that someone took a full keel and modified it into a fun keel no matter how weird the setup looks with that underbody shape.

It looks more like an crude attempt to design a fin keel and spade rudder and the rudder had too much play and the strut was poorly added on after the fact. 

We may find the truth if the op gives us the state the boat  is located in and more of the HIN  if it is original to the boat and probably early 70’s then. I don’t have any HIN’s on any of my boats from the 60’s.

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On 9/26/2018 at 4:20 PM, ribber said:

Owner says this is an Alberg design but it has a fin keel and no cabin.  17'  Any ideas

boat2blacked.png

Is there any builder info on the boat?

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This company (Navy Marine Group Llc) is owned by James Brewer and is located at 1718 WAUKAZOO DRIVE in HOLLAND state of MI. It manufactured this vessel and placed your HIN or CIN on the hull. The parent company for this boat maker is (). Navy Marine Group Llc has started making boats, yachts and other watercraft as of 7/2/1999 and went out of business on (8/31/2001) in the following country: .

I'll bet you could find James Brewer if you really wanted to know more. I doubt there are many more than this hull if the company was in business for 2 years.

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Don't care who made it or about the chastity strut that someone added....

 

I'll sail that shit.  Does it have rig and sails?  Any insignia on the main?

 

Everyone loves a mystery.  Please don't abandon this one.   Rare thing that a hull isn't ID'd in minutes on here...  This thing has a story behind it.  WITH boots on the ground.  C'mon guys let's figure this out...

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3 hours ago, nlmasopust said:

Don't care who made it or about the chastity strut that someone added....

 

I'll sail that shit.  Does it have rig and sails?  Any insignia on the main?

 

Everyone loves a mystery.  Please don't abandon this one.   Rare thing that a hull isn't ID'd in minutes on here...  This thing has a story behind it.  WITH boots on the ground.  C'mon guys let's figure this out...

I'm the OP, but not the witness.  Truth be told, it's my brother-in-law asking me about it remotely.
The HIN is a mess, it's not a valid HIN.  NMG5645911EC, from an old title.  I don't see a valid year there.  The rig is no spreaders, single shrouds.  The sail is literally a cut-down McGregor25 main.  The trailer has New Mexico plates and it's sitting in upstate NY.

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4 hours ago, ribber said:

I'm the OP, but not the witness.  Truth be told, it's my brother-in-law asking me about it remotely.
The HIN is a mess, it's not a valid HIN.  NMG5645911EC, from an old title.  I don't see a valid year there.  The rig is no spreaders, single shrouds.  The sail is literally a cut-down McGregor25 main.  The trailer has New Mexico plates and it's sitting in upstate NY.

Mac25 main cut down... ROTFL... YCMTSU!!

Thanks for add'l info.  I'm now thinking this one will remain unsolved.  Cute little booze cruiser though...

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On 9/28/2018 at 8:41 PM, nlmasopust said:

Mac25 main cut down... ROTFL... YCMTSU!!

Thanks for add'l info.  I'm now thinking this one will remain unsolved.  Cute little booze cruiser though...

Hey, I didn't know that part when I first tried looking for an answer to this.  

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On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 1:06 PM, ribber said:

The HIN is a mess, it's not a valid HIN.  NMG5645911EC, from an old title.  I don't see a valid year there. 

NMG maps back to a builder called "Navy Marine Group" of Holland, Michigan

Pre-1984, the last 4 of a HIN didn't necessarily denote a year (it might be an amalgam of 1 digit for production year, 1 digit for model year, 1 character-code for month, etc.)

Pre-70something, the middle 5 digits didn't necessarily mean model+hullnumber

Not much of a clue, I know.... but... it may be a perfectly valid HIN, using one of the formats from 40+ years ago.

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On 9/26/2018 at 4:21 PM, ribber said:

yeah, but size-wise, all of his under 20' were full keels: Corinthian, Typhoon and Hawks
http://sailboatdata.com/view_designer.asp?designer_id=16
Never saw a SC21 before, but it looks like an Ensign topsides on a Rhodes 19.

The guv could answer this one,  but the SC21 was big at Lake Travis Austin,   i have the sister boat the corinthian.. always wanted to sail a sc21 to see what the fin keel and skeg rudder would do for the boat...  

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On 9/27/2018 at 6:54 PM, ribber said:

no, I know Corinthians, my FIL had one.  They have a full keel with the rudder mounted on the aft end of the keel.  There's a couple of them in the same boatyard as mine.  No window in the front of the cabin either. But the thing I'm trying to ID is the first one. 

 

where's your boat yard?  we have over 40 corinthians at our club..   I want to do  NA championship one day..

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On 10/1/2018 at 11:27 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

where's your boat yard?  we have over 40 corinthians at our club..   I want to do  NA championship one day..

Marblehead. The racing fleet for Corinthians here is caput.

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