bill4

New Olympic Dinghy Selection

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, dogwatch said:

"No sailing the Olympics, RYA would be in very sorry state."

Not really, because the money received for Olympic sailing is spent on Olympic sailing.  It doesn't and cannot go into general RYA funds. So no sailing in the Olympics would mean the RYA structures supporting Team GBR would go but the rest of the RYA would not be significantly affected 

There are other recipients of funding linked to sailing medals performance, including some club facilities. In that sense, no sailing in the Olympics would be a bad thing for British sailing.    

Don't underestimate the second part.  The cascade of money into the grass roots is great for sailing. We have safety ribs that have been bought by the club through funds raised supporting the bottom of the performance pyramid.

Cheers,

              W.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The forestay on a 29er is lucky if it ever exceeds 20% of UTS, its stretch, at that load is negligible, so it really dose not matter if you put 31 or 70 on the shrouds, your never going to alter the rake beyond a minuet of a degree.   all you will do is bend the gunwhales up!

The turnbuckle rule in the 29er came from the floor of the WC meeting, it had to do with being caught out with the wrong setting and not want to go though the BS that the 49er went through pre turnbuckles.     I believe that FS tensions range now between 21 & 26, which is dramatically less than pre turnbuckles, so the ability to alter the tension "on the fly" has moderated the extremes dramatically.   On the face of it that has to be a good thing.

The adjustable FS on the 29er, has to do with the tendency of the existing mast "cannoning" so sliding into each other.     We simply don't have that issue with the 49er carbon mast, because they butt against each other.   So the 49er has no adjustment.

Again that has to be a good thing!

Re a rule boat, ever few years, we do a comparison and compare sails by sq m, and even the laser has significantly cheaper sails per sq/m than just about any "rule boat".      Yes we have done masts also, and only speaking as a "9er" person, the comparisons are even more favorable.   This is very well documented.

So that's not a realistic idea!

I often long for the altruistic idea of open development, I wonder where that would take us,  but the reality is, I would think, we would loose 90% of our sailors. 

        JB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So? Laser, Aero or Melges?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmmmm, I thought this was an obvious answer but ... Areo or Laser or M14? Time for a change

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, JulianB said:

I often long for the altruistic idea of open development, I wonder where that would take us,  but the reality is, I would think, we would loose 90% of our sailors. 

        JB

I don't think by open development we would loose that many and we may gain that many more back. Even the pole used in pole vaulting has developed more than the Finn and Laser. Look at how the jet ski has developed over the few years they have been around to take away potential sailors. Want to turn off a newbie sailor, take them out on a breezy day in a Thistle. ( however I love the people in the Thistle class). There is just something Neanderthal in the thinking in most Olympic classes that keeps any new design features from trickling down to the marketplace or even being developed to promote and help market to new sailors or gain interest in sailing. An  18 Foot Skiff race  well choreographed & filmed would boost  interest in sailing as an olympic sport.  Oh well! The interest in curling isn't gaining much either. BTW, I can't seem to remember who won the silver in the last discus throw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/4/2018 at 10:39 AM, dgmckim said:

they do make a compelling argument. does anyone think (beyond dislike of the laser/zealotry for their preferred class) that there's merit to the point that removing the laser will hurt the universality of sailing as an olympic sport? Most classes in this particular group will inherently be more universal than classes like the nacra and 49er due to much lower entry costs, which is very important for small nations. But can they get the numbers? I know the Aero is popular in the US, CAN and UK, but what's its reach outside these nations? lastly, is olympic sailing THAT important to class strength anyways? you'd have to imagine it is only relevant to a small percentage of sailors.

I don’t think that the Aero is popular in Canada, at least central and east it’s all laser and laser radial.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, John D said:

 There is just something Neanderthal in the thinking in most Olympic classes that keeps any new design features from trickling down to the marketplace 

Is that so? Quite apart from what goes on in development classes, new OD classes with new ideas are being launched all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Is that so? Quite apart from what goes on in development classes, new OD classes with new ideas are being launched all the time.

Yes I think its so!  Look at an  I 14 or a 5oh from the 70's vs now and do the same for a Laser or Finn. The new OD classes are borrowing ideas from the development classes (rightfully so because they work) but the new OD classes arn't in the olympics either. If they were, most likely their development would stagnate also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new ideas are out there in the marketplace. Olympic classes aren't stopping that as you claimed. Possibly what you wrote isn't what you meant?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/4/2018 at 10:39 AM, dgmckim said:

 I know the Aero is popular in the US, CAN and UK, but what's its reach outside these nations? 

There are RS Aeros in 51 countries spread across Europe, North and South America, Asia and Oceania.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder what impact the WS Board missive calling for a rejection of the mixed single-handed event will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, dogwatch said:

The new ideas are out there in the marketplace. Olympic classes aren't stopping that as you claimed. Possibly what you wrote isn't what you meant?

I don't think the new ideas in the marketplace came from any development from the olympics. I agree that the olympics ( and training for) really help in developing sailing skills and techniques but not much in boat design or development. AN exception may be in the Tornado which sadly has gone the way of the dodo bird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, rgeek said:

Wonder what impact the WS Board missive calling for a rejection of the mixed single-handed event will be.

Thanks.. I hadn't seen that.  Bit out of left field!

  Would involve dumping the Finn... with 75% backing needed for the proposal to go forward, that seems unlikely on the surface but stranger things have certainly happened!!

 Would leave both big guys and normal sized women without a single-hander... I don't know how much that matters to the powers-that-be but it doesn't seem to tick the inclusion boxes.

Anyone know how popular offshore racing is amongst less-affluent nations?  I don't but my guess would be that it is even further from mass participation than dinghies...

Cheers,

               W.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, John D said:

I don't think the new ideas in the marketplace came from any development from the olympics.

Indeed, that is not what the Olympics are for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, rgeek said:

Wonder what impact the WS Board missive calling for a rejection of the mixed single-handed event will be.

The whole thing is a mess. How could they allow a submission that doesn't even specify how the event will run to be voted on? 

I thought the whole point of the new event / equipment selection process was to vote to get events nailed down before getting embroiled in the politics of which classes are dropped / selected. 

Unfortunately, all the class lobbyists were playing politics at the event selection, so naturally, the submission to get voted through is the only one in which the lobby groups of pro-kitesurf, pro-470, pro-windsurf and pro-finn could still be included... even if no one has any idea what mixed windsurfer and mixed single handed actually mean! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/26/2018 at 4:22 PM, JulianB said:

The forestay on a 29er is lucky if it ever exceeds 20% of UTS, its stretch, at that load is negligible, so it really dose not matter if you put 31 or 70 on the shrouds, your never going to alter the rake beyond a minuet of a degree.   all you will do is bend the gunwhales up!

The turnbuckle rule in the 29er came from the floor of the WC meeting, it had to do with being caught out with the wrong setting and not want to go though the BS that the 49er went through pre turnbuckles.     I believe that FS tensions range now between 21 & 26, which is dramatically less than pre turnbuckles, so the ability to alter the tension "on the fly" has moderated the extremes dramatically.   On the face of it that has to be a good thing.

The adjustable FS on the 29er, has to do with the tendency of the existing mast "cannoning" so sliding into each other.     We simply don't have that issue with the 49er carbon mast, because they butt against each other.   So the 49er has no adjustment.

Again that has to be a good thing!

Re a rule boat, ever few years, we do a comparison and compare sails by sq m, and even the laser has significantly cheaper sails per sq/m than just about any "rule boat".      Yes we have done masts also, and only speaking as a "9er" person, the comparisons are even more favorable.   This is very well documented.

So that's not a realistic idea!

I often long for the altruistic idea of open development, I wonder where that would take us,  but the reality is, I would think, we would loose 90% of our sailors. 

        JB

I was told never go beyond 27 on the forstay for fear of hurting the boat! I did get caught out several times with the wrong settings and it sucked massively. The teams with coach boats could change, but we couldnt. I'm trying to remember if i ever attempted it and i do have a vague recollection of trying it one time without a coach, and one time with - but it was pretty miserable. Well versed in the mast cannoning - my boat was built in 99! The elongation of the holes was on the order of around 3/16" or so. Caused the mast tracks to butt up against each other despite some trimming and pop off. Eventually that whole mast got replaced but it was a major pain for a while. Sold the top section. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

The whole thing is a mess. How could they allow a submission that doesn't even specify how the event will run to be voted on? 

I thought the whole point of the new event / equipment selection process was to vote to get events nailed down before getting embroiled in the politics of which classes are dropped / selected. 

Unfortunately, all the class lobbyists were playing politics at the event selection, so naturally, the submission to get voted through is the only one in which the lobby groups of pro-kitesurf, pro-470, pro-windsurf and pro-finn could still be included... even if no one has any idea what mixed windsurfer and mixed single handed actually mean! 

 
1. A complete disaster.
2. Something that gets progressively worse even when you're sure it can't possibly go any more wrong.
3. The Trump Administration   WS Dinghy Selection
Fuck dude, I don't see how Trump and his minions   WS could make this Dumpster Fire burn any hotter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, rgeek said:

Wonder what impact the WS Board missive calling for a rejection of the mixed single-handed event will be.

"Hey, we want more nations to participate in the Olympics"

"We also want to make you buy a $250K boat that will have even greater ancillary costs cause it's a NEW FORMAT WOO"

...you can get a new Devoti Finn with all the goodies for $22k, the right mast for about $7K, and budgeting four new sails a year at $1.6k a pop a Finn campaign comes in at about $9k per year for equipment costs, and assume a little less than twice that for coaching/food/lodging/entry fees, so call it an even $25k a year.

"But the emerging nations can't afford it!"

WS is so unbelievably pants-on-head retarded I'm shocked it hasn't already driven itself into the ground

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

 

WS is so unbelievably pants-on-head retarded I'm shocked it hasn't already driven itself into the ground

Oh they're trying damn hard at it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to understand whats happenning but not really knowing where its going.

Maybe IOC's desire for a mixed event is becasue they think sailing is like horse riding or shooting where the person's physique is irrelevant. Its up tp WS to show  them this is wrong. If not they will need a small boat suitable for normal size women and small men, where physique is less relevant, like the Europe was, so maybe one of the new designs with a small rig will get that gig and the Laser will survive for the bigger men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Phil S said:

Trying to understand whats happenning but not really knowing where its going.

Maybe IOC's desire for a mixed event is becasue they think sailing is like horse riding or shooting where the person's physique is irrelevant. Its up tp WS to show  them this is wrong. If not they will need a small boat suitable for normal size women and small men, where physique is less relevant, like the Europe was, so maybe one of the new designs with a small rig will get that gig and the Laser will survive for the bigger men.

IOC really doesn't seem to be forcing this. They're happy with the gender balance and are positive about media improvements. These changes are being driven from within WS in order to drive participation. 

But, the problem is, instead of selecting events that are well thought out and represent sailing and then letting the classes battle it out to prove they are the best equipment for those events, we have this weird voting system where hundreds of proposals, seemingly unvetted, are put forward and the lobbyists play politics until the most unworkable solution is found, as long as that solution doesn't rule out the lobbyists class. 

The submission that got put forward and selected from the Romanian NMA introduced kites, kept windsurf, kept the 470 and kept the finn (with the excuse that mixed but separate events are good for countries which for cultural reasons can't let mean and women mix). It seems, maybe I'm being sceptical, that it was chosen as it was only way everyone could get out of the room without losing their spot. What it failed to do was identify events that represent sailing and would be suitable for the Olympics. 

I really like the finn, but it seems the people lobbying for it would rather it be involved in nonsensical format than not at all. Should the blame be laid at their door? Or is it the system that's broke?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I really like the finn, but it seems the people lobbying for it would rather it be involved in nonsensical format than not at all. Should the blame be laid at their door? Or is it the system that's broke?

Every time this has come up (after at least the last three quads) the question always becomes "why are there two men's singlehanded boats". The corollary is either "Why aren't there two women's singlehanded boats" or "That's dumb, get rid of one".

The fact is that the global population is getting taller, stronger, and heavier every year. The Finn Class has a lot of data which shows that men are growing out of the Laser at a younger age, and end up either doing only crewed keelboat sailing or leaving the sport altogether. After WS axed the Star in 2012, the Finn is the only game in town if you weigh more than about 185lb. If that means we have to team up with the girls in the Europe, 4.7, or Aero 5, that is acceptable.

One of the MNA representatives pointed out the weight data  and a WS stooge said something to the effect of "Go play basketball then, we don't care about you."

If I had it my way?

1. Men's Heavy Singlehander (Finn)

2. Men's Light Singlehander (Laser/Aero 7/D-Zero/Whatever)

3. Women's Heavy Singlehander (Radial)

4. Women's Light Singlehander (Europe/4.7/Aero 5/Whatever)

5. Mixed 49er FX

6. Mixed 470

7. Mixed Nacra 17F

8. Men's Foiling Kite

9. Women's Foiling Kite

Look I just saved WS whatever the cost of the infrastructure and scoring for the 10th event would be, and nobody has to chop off an arm to make weight. Go me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Every time this has come up (after at least the last three quads) the question always becomes "why are there two men's singlehanded boats". The corollary is either "Why aren't there two women's singlehanded boats" or "That's dumb, get rid of one".

The fact is that the global population is getting taller, stronger, and heavier every year. The Finn Class has a lot of data which shows that men are growing out of the Laser at a younger age, and end up either doing only crewed keelboat sailing or leaving the sport altogether. After WS axed the Star in 2012, the Finn is the only game in town if you weigh more than about 185lb. If that means we have to team up with the girls in the Europe, 4.7, or Aero 5, that is acceptable.

One of the MNA representatives pointed out the weight data  and a WS stooge said something to the effect of "Go play basketball then, we don't care about you."

If I had it my way?

1. Men's Heavy Singlehander (Finn)

2. Men's Light Singlehander (Laser/Aero 7/D-Zero/Whatever)

3. Women's Heavy Singlehander (Radial)

4. Women's Light Singlehander (Europe/4.7/Aero 5/Whatever)

5. Mixed 49er FX

6. Mixed 470

7. Mixed Nacra 17F

8. Men's Foiling Kite

9. Women's Foiling Kite

Look I just saved WS whatever the cost of the infrastructure and scoring for the 10th event would be, and nobody has to chop off an arm to make weight. Go me.

 

Windsurfers would take exception.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, torrid said:

Windsurfers would take exception.

...

8. Mixed Foiling Kite (but not tandem how would you do that?)

9. Men's RS:X

10: Women's RS:X

Everyone happy?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the hell is the appeal for MIXED events....   For multihulls.... mixed was SUPPOSED to be a stepping stone to Mens and Womans' multi's.   Is this just  the same ol same ol ..... a political solution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, tillerman said:

There are RS Aeros in 51 countries spread across Europe, North and South America, Asia and Oceania.

https://www.rsaerosailing.org/#

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Finn lobby may have data on the increase in mass of the world population over 185lbs but most of the big people I see around town would not have the fitness, strength or stamina for any type of dinghy sailing. They are most suited to be rail meat on lead boats.

There has been a fair exchange of top sailors between Finn and Laser classes over some time (Ainsley, Slingsby for example) so its a reasonable argument that the two classes are not both necessary. If the Aero is chosen and suits smaller people than the Laser then things might change, but if not I see the Finn as a lost cause.

Solution might be Aero with small rig for mixed small people and Aero with big rig for "mixed" big people. Or weight divisions like in many other sports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My take would be that World Sailing (the board and organisation) sees the potential to establish a WS property in offshore.

It's an important part of the sport as it connects with the cruising community, which is a much larger part of our sport than racing. In terms of yacht racing, there has been a drift to offshore/coastal in the last 10 years too (?)

With the kind of technology the Volvo has spun off coverage is well understood. The virtual racing element is an interesting opportunity. It would give the sport, and there for the Olympics, an integration with esports and the ability to compete against the real athletes, at the games, in real time would be pretty unique. What could be made of that, not so sure. But it is something to think about.

I don't think anyone actually wanted mixed single-handed. If you look at how the voting went it was a kind of disruptive "no result" vote. They were always going to have to come back to it.

If this goes through though the Finn lobby will have to target the single-handed one design equipment selection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously changing classes every few years is a problem. They are one design anyway so updates are irrelevant. They should go back to the original one designs, Star, Bosun Dinghy, Dragon, all with wooden spars, cotton sails, sisal ropes and no cleats. And no wet suits either, let the bastards suffer the cold.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to offend but it is very hard to take this circus seriously.  Why the best of the world's sailors want to sail the mish mash of boats these old sailing politicians choose for them every 4 years amazes me. I guess its becasue the same type of old sailing politicians run the national Sailing organisations and they fund the good sailors to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Every time this has come up (after at least the last three quads) the question always becomes "why are there two men's singlehanded boats". The corollary is either "Why aren't there two women's singlehanded boats" or "That's dumb, get rid of one".

...

If that means we have to team up with the girls in the Europe, 4.7, or Aero 5, that is acceptable.

...

If I had it my way?

1. Men's Heavy Singlehander (Finn)

2. Men's Light Singlehander (Laser/Aero 7/D-Zero/Whatever)

3. Women's Heavy Singlehander (Radial)

4. Women's Light Singlehander (Europe/4.7/Aero 5/Whatever)

5. Mixed 49er FX

6. Mixed 470

7. Mixed Nacra 17F

8. Men's Foiling Kite

9. Women's Foiling kite

But I'm not, and I've not heard other people say its dumb. I think there needs to be a mens heavyweight .

What I object to is that the finn lobby (but also kite and windsurf too?) would rather vote for an event that is clearly bulllshit and not even explained what it is than lose their slot. What concerns me is that the finn lobby would consider that mixed event as 'acceptable'.

The problem with all your mixed classes and women's single hander is that I'm not sure there is the participation to fill the boats. 

I also think that has a very heavy focus on single handed events. One of the key aspects of sailing is the team work. 

I'm most miffed about the kitesurfing. I just don't see much of it happening as course racing. In fact I don't really see much wrong with the line up we had. 

Edited by Mozzy Sails

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Phil S said:

 Why the best of the world's sailors want to sail the mish mash of boats these old sailing politicians choose for them every 4 years amazes me. I guess its becasue the same type of old sailing politicians run the national Sailing organisations and they fund the good sailors to do it.

So you can sail a less than ideal boat full time for 4 years and get paid for it or you can get an office job. There seem to be enough that don't find it a tough choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rgeek said:

In terms of yacht racing, there has been a drift to offshore/coastal in the last 10 years too (?)

 

Really? Outside the Fastnet, I'm not seeing offshore fleet sizes in the UK increasing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

The Finn Class has a lot of data which shows that men are growing out of the Laser at a younger age, and end up either doing only crewed keelboat sailing or leaving the sport altogether.

Bah humbug. Leaving Olympic sailing is not leaving the sport. Sailing keelboats is not leaving the sport. And leaving the sport is not restricted to large males.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Every time this has come up (after at least the last three quads) the question always becomes "why are there two men's singlehanded boats". The corollary is either "Why aren't there two women's singlehanded boats" or "That's dumb, get rid of one".

The fact is that the global population is getting taller, stronger, and heavier every year. The Finn Class has a lot of data which shows that men are growing out of the Laser at a younger age, and end up either doing only crewed keelboat sailing or leaving the sport altogether. After WS axed the Star in 2012, the Finn is the only game in town if you weigh more than about 185lb. If that means we have to team up with the girls in the Europe, 4.7, or Aero 5, that is acceptable.

One of the MNA representatives pointed out the weight data  and a WS stooge said something to the effect of "Go play basketball then, we don't care about you."

If I had it my way?

1. Men's Heavy Singlehander (Finn)

2. Men's Light Singlehander (Laser/Aero 7/D-Zero/Whatever)

3. Women's Heavy Singlehander (Radial)

4. Women's Light Singlehander (Europe/4.7/Aero 5/Whatever)

5. Mixed 49er FX

6. Mixed 470

7. Mixed Nacra 17F

8. Men's Foiling Kite

9. Women's Foiling Kite

Look I just saved WS whatever the cost of the infrastructure and scoring for the 10th event would be, and nobody has to chop off an arm to make weight. Go me.

 

Top names in the Finn class didn't give a damn about the light male singlehanders in earlier times; Elvstrom, for example, said it was simply bad luck if a sailor was too light for the Finn when it was the only Olympic dinghy. The Finn class only seems to have started caring about allowing for all weights once it started to suit their own interests.

Whatever the merits of the Finn, it does seem that their case that sailors of all physiques should be able to complete is hypocritical, and that's never a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Really? Outside the Fastnet, I'm not seeing offshore fleet sizes in the UK increasing.

Is any fleet growing in the UK at the moment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aeros. Also quite a resurgence in the Elite fleet in Chichester Harbour.

But let's get back to your assertion that there's a "drift to offshore/coastal". Where are you seeing that happening? Just curious as if I look at UK JOG, for example, there been a slow decline over decades. I think fewer and fewer family men get a pass to go away for the entire weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Phil S said:

Sorry to offend but it is very hard to take this circus seriously.  Why the best of the world's sailors want to sail the mish mash of boats these old sailing politicians choose for them every 4 years amazes me. I guess its becasue the same type of old sailing politicians run the national Sailing organisations and they fund the good sailors to do it.

How many past olympians are on the selection committee?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Really? Outside the Fastnet, I'm not seeing offshore fleet sizes in the UK increasing.

i thought this past two year's volvo ocean race was awesome. next time they'll have two classes of boat - the Volvo Ocean 65 (one design) and the IMOCA 60. seems like fleet growth to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Phil S said:

The Finn lobby may have data on the increase in mass of the world population over 185lbs but most of the big people I see around town would not have the fitness, strength or stamina for any type of dinghy sailing. They are most suited to be rail meat on lead boats.

There has been a fair exchange of top sailors between Finn and Laser classes over some time (Ainsley, Slingsby for example) so its a reasonable argument that the two classes are not both necessary. If the Aero is chosen and suits smaller people than the Laser then things might change, but if not I see the Finn as a lost cause.

Solution might be Aero with small rig for mixed small people and Aero with big rig for "mixed" big people. Or weight divisions like in many other sports.

Ainslie switched and never looked back, Slingsby didn't do too great in Aarhus. Looking at the Olympic-level Finn sailors, none of them have more than about 10% body fat and live between 95 and 100kg. Somebody like Jorge Zarif or Giles Scott would have to chop off an arm if they wanted to be able to race Lasers or Aero 9's competitively. 

The "weight divisions" already exist. You wouldn't ask Manny Pacquiao to fight Mike Tyson. Finn sailors almost invariably weigh 200-215lb, Laser sailors almost invariably weigh between 170-180lbs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rubbish, Giles Scott would be plenty competitive in an Aero 9. Ainslie, Percy, Scheidt, Goodison and many others have shown they can win in a variety of boats with nominally different optimum crew size.

If we are to have weight divisions, they should be proper weight divisions not just a crude ‘heavy weight’ excuse. Heavyweight boat should have a weight band, say 95-105kg.  What about cruiser weight, bantom weight, feather weight,  mdidle weight classes?  They all need representation too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am afraid that Top Laser or Finn sailors will destroy Aero after half season of training.

Do you know why Aero is so light?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, nieptun said:

 

Do you know why Aero is so light?

 

Because it is made out of ghosts?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Ainslie switched and never looked back, Slingsby didn't do too great in Aarhus.

So?  Slingsby was recognised as being a very good (although too heavy) sailor in Moths and As and won a tiny little race in a development class in San Francisco, so if you're trying to insinuate that he's an inferior sailor to a top Finnster you appear to be trying too hard. Goodison and other Laser sailors have moved into other classes with great success. And Coutts never looked back at the Finn after winning gold, so if "never looking back" means anything against Lasers it also counts against Finns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Curious said:

So?  Slingsby was recognised as being a very good (although too heavy) sailor in Moths and As and won a tiny little race in a development class in San Francisco, so if you're trying to insinuate that he's an inferior sailor to a top Finnster you appear to be trying too hard. Goodison and other Laser sailors have moved into other classes with great success. And Coutts never looked back at the Finn after winning gold, so if "never looking back" means anything against Lasers it also counts against Finns.

The competitive top end weight for Moths is more or less the same as Lasers and 49ers. I'm not insinuating that one class is better than another for developing great sailors, there's a lot of crossover. My point was that Tom is recognized as a fantastic sailor and was not able to just walk to the top of the fleet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

The competitive top end weight for Moths is more or less the same as Lasers and 49ers. I'm not insinuating that one class is better than another for developing great sailors, there's a lot of crossover. My point was that Tom is recognized as a fantastic sailor and was not able to just walk to the top of the fleet.

it's hard to 'just walk to the top' against guys who have been campaigning the boat for a few years for the olympics. he had some solid finishes. I don't think anyone is so good that they can just mosey to the top of any fleet. That's a bit of an unfair criticism

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good Grief Charlie Brown! I have not been on SA for a couple of weeks and all this, I think I am caught up... Well I scanned and scrolled to the end so good enough! LOL

AFA how the Aero is holding up check in with the Texas Dude, I think he is TX? Gulf Coast for sure, that has been sailing his Aero in the surf. If he has not broken the boat yet 95% of the Aero sailors will be just fine with the longevity of the boat. I am trying to recall his member name...

AFA the Pro/Olympic guys are concerned it does not matter what boat "lasts longer". They will get a new boat every year/charter/before big events anyways.

For recreational sailors/racers all things being equal the modern construction the Aero will certainly "last longer" in that the boat will stay stiffer longer. By how much and does it really matter for most sailors can be debated.

Now as pointed out smashing into docks/other boats on the race course might be more of a problem for the Aero. Maybe???

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Hobie Dog said:

Good Grief Charlie Brown! I have not been on SA for a couple of weeks and all this, I think I am caught up... Well I scanned and scrolled to the end so good enough! LOL

AFA how the Aero is holding up check in with the Texas Dude, I think he is TX? Gulf Coast for sure, that has been sailing his Aero in the surf. If he has not broken the boat yet 95% of the Aero sailors will be just fine with the longevity of the boat. I am trying to recall his member name...

 

 

DTA, innit? He gave his Aero away after he got RS700 and a plastic cat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2018 at 5:42 PM, nieptun said:

I am afraid that Top Laser or Finn sailors will destroy Aero after half season of training.

Do you know why Aero is so light?

 

Your fear is unjustified. So far every indication says everything about AEROs lasts longer than Lasers.

AERO builders have 45 years of technology they can apply to improve on the Laser. 

The mere existence of the Laser makes it much easier for ANYONE to build a better boat. 

How long till the hull goes soft?? . I don’t yet know but I can report the one I have been sailing for a few months has Zero wrong with it so far.

somewhere around one year into ownership I start to notice the beginning signs of flexiness on a Laser. 

I will be reporting as my experience and knowledge justifies saying more. 

Currently I am not inclined to bad mouth either Lasers or AEROs 

  • Like 4
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the laughing stock of mixed single hander is out, and replaced by offshore mixed. 

It makes sense, and represents a format already familiar in our sport... I think it will be an amazing media event during the Olympics but the cost will be a big sticking issue for smaller budgets. Plus the question of how qualifying will work. 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

DTA, innit? He gave his Aero away after he got RS700 and a plastic cat.

Yep that is the guy!

He GAVE his Aero away? Good guy to be friends with I would say!!!

Anybody have an Aero they would like to give to me? Even for a season to try out would be great!

And if you are a millennial I will even be your friend and treat you like the special snowflake that your are. :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

And if you are a millennial I will even be your friend and treat you like the special snowflake that your are

explain yourself please

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I think it will be an amazing media event during the Olympics but the cost will be a big sticking issue for smaller budgets. 

110% agree on the cost. Plus, take the countries that were represented in, say 2016, in the Finn. Will all of those countries have the resources to field an offshore team?

As for the "amazing media event" - that would be great but based on past results I have my doubts.

Look at the big breeze / big wave day in Rio in 2016. How much more spectacular / amazing showcase of sailing could you find but how much footage of that day was shown at the time or can you find even now? The mainstream media may also be thinking that the great images coming from the Volvo ocean race will be what will be seen with the Olympic offshore race.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess because none of the spectators will be able to see them, then the race doesn't have to be anywhere near the Olympic venue, just televise the start on the Jumbotron. Maybe start somewhere in southern Chile, round the horn and up to the Falklands! ^_^

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, dgmckim said:

explain yourself please

Haha, Sorry I just came from the gym and we were picking on the millennial's as they seem to be the worst offenders of not putting their weights/toys back in their proper spot when they are done with them. So yea sorry way out of context except for me getting a chuck out of it! LOL

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

110% agree on the cost. Plus, take the countries that were represented in, say 2016, in the Finn. Will all of those countries have the resources to field an offshore team?

As for the "amazing media event" - that would be great but based on past results I have my doubts.

Look at the big breeze / big wave day in Rio in 2016. How much more spectacular / amazing showcase of sailing could you find but how much footage of that day was shown at the time or can you find even now? The mainstream media may also be thinking that the great images coming from the Volvo ocean race will be what will be seen with the Olympic offshore race.....

Facundo Olezza (ARG) said pretty candidly that the Finn was the limit of what his MNA was willing to put up. If this "mixed offshore" thing doesn't fall apart at the seams, my money would be on the French and Brits as the frontrunners willing to put up enough cash to play, and everyone else trying to keep up.

Looking forward to more 100+ boat Gold Cups while Olympic Classes (Nacra 17, 49er FX) continue to have anemic <20 boat events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Looking forward to more 100+ boat Gold Cups while Olympic Classes (Nacra 17, 49er FX) continue to have anemic <20 boat events.

Exactly and not to mention the extremely strong masters sailing that is not going to go away.

The Star seems to be doing pretty well around the world also last time I checked. 

Still one hopes that the powers to be will come to their senses but....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/2/2018 at 8:59 AM, Gouvernail said:

Your fear is unjustified. So far every indication says everything about AEROs lasts longer than Lasers.

AERO builders have 45 years of technology they can apply to improve on the Laser. 

The mere existence of the Laser makes it much easier for ANYONE to build a better boat. 

How long till the hull goes soft?? . I don’t yet know but I can report the one I have been sailing for a few months has Zero wrong with it so far.

somewhere around one year into ownership I start to notice the beginning signs of flexiness on a Laser. 

I will be reporting as my experience and knowledge justifies saying more. 

Currently I am not inclined to bad mouth either Lasers or AEROs 

You are right that Aero builders could take advantage of many years of experience from Laser, but I am not sure they did that.

The main problem of Olympic dinghy boats is price. Is Aero cheaper than Laser?

Unfortunately, Aero is much more expensive than Laser!

Second problem is longevity.

Which indication says everything about AEROs lasts longer than Lasers? :)

Aero and Laser have a few constructional problems, first example is mast post tube (it is one of the first damages on this type of boats)

Unfortunately, Laser has much better mast post tube than Aero.

You are an expert if you notice the beginning signs of flexiness after one year into ownership of a Laser (Could you explain how you feel that? It is very interesting and I not say that it is impossible)

I wait for your reports but after a few months of sailing on Aero what do you think about main halyard, abrasive sand on the deck and about location of control lines on the deck (cunningham and outhaul)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@nieptun I feel like responding to two of your statements  

1. Why do you say the Laser has a better “mast tube?”

2. The first indicator a Laser hull is a little bit softer comes when hitting some chop. The hull flexes occasionally. When it is much much  older it flexes on every wave.

note: New boats built in the seventies were more flexible brand new than “modern” Lasers and deteriorated at a much more rapid pace. Modern resins are much better than anything we had in the  seventies and the original foam  core  was simply not the right stuff fir the application. Decent foam coring material didn’t exist 

  • Like 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, nieptun said:

You are right that Aero builders could take advantage of many years of experience from Laser, but I am not sure they did that.

The main problem of Olympic dinghy boats is price. Is Aero cheaper than Laser?

Unfortunately, Aero is much more expensive than Laser!

Second problem is longevity.

Which indication says everything about AEROs lasts longer than Lasers? :)

Aero and Laser have a few constructional problems, first example is mast post tube (it is one of the first damages on this type of boats)

Unfortunately, Laser has much better mast post tube than Aero.

You are an expert if you notice the beginning signs of flexiness after one year into ownership of a Laser (Could you explain how you feel that? It is very interesting and I not say that it is impossible)

I wait for your reports but after a few months of sailing on Aero what do you think about main halyard, abrasive sand on the deck and about location of control lines on the deck (cunningham and outhaul)?

Lots of assertion here and not a lot of evidence. I own an Aero and sail it from a sandy place along with many others. Sand washes off quickly during sailing. Tapered main halyard is class legal and works well. Over-deck controls are class legal and work well. Don't know of anyone having trouble with the mast tube. Don't know know of general points about longevity. "The main problem of Olympic dinghy boats is price", well who says so, that just another assertion. I've sailed an Olympic class before and I'm not too sure I want to again but that's another story.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VWAP said:

and yet US SAILING was one of the countries that put forth a proposal for "mixed offshore keelboat" in the first place. Weird.

If they don't ratify the amendment today I wonder if they'll keep the 2016 slate (pending the EU Antitrust Lawsuit) or revert to the May decision and try to make sense of "Mixed Singlander".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, dgmckim said:

dgbg.gif

Correct!! I almost didn’t bother to reply because @nieptun ‘s post seemed more emotional than anything else.

my opinion:

(worth slightly less than what you are paying to read it)

1. The absolute only boat worthy of Olympic status is the Laser. Absolutely no other boat is actually raced competitively within so many countries.  The Olympic representatives actually are champions from real fleets in each of their countries. 

2. The AERO is a more modern singlehanded boat in which the same games can be played by the same people who currently race Lasers.

3.AEROs do not in any way shape or form qualify as a competitor for the Laser spot at this time. 

4. If the North American Laser supply issue continues for another couple years and RS continues to vigorously push sales and support the game the AERO may become a serious candidate in North America to consider as equipment for serious singjehanded championships 

5. As far as I can tell, competition ready AEROs and Lasers are within a few meals of the same price. (A Competition ready Laser has thousands of dollars worth of extra equipment including Centerboard brake, vang, outhaul, Cun ningham, “clew to boom fastener, carbon tiller, carbon tiller, hiking strap adjuster, carbon filler extension, hiking pants, and line upgrade packages) Stock AEROs, like the 1972 Laser, come fully equipped with all the legal racing equipment. Neither is an expensive racing toy. 

6. feedback. I just sailed in my first windy and very shifty event. I do not yet make the boat sail at full speed and my boat handling is beginnerish. I did not feel the hull or deck “giving” in any way at any time. I think my hull, which began its career as a demo boat,  is still as stiff as a brand new one

i have no reason to compare the general AERO experience to the Laser Experience.  I can describe one comparison / experience  which makes my own experience quite enjoyable:

On the Laser I am at a place in life where I am constantly reminded of my personal Limits. There are many “I can’t do that like I used to” in almost any day on the water.

On the AERO I am still figuring it out. My AERO sailing is currently like my first few races  on a Snipe, Sidewinder, FJ, 420, E Scow, US 1, Sunfish, Whio, Columbia Contender, Bandit 15, Flying Dutchman, Mobjack, Y Flyer, Lightning, Blue Jay, Highlander, Rhodes Bantam, Tech Dinghy, 470, Copperhead,  Fireball, Columbia 9.6, Thistle, Southcoast 21, Merit 25, C-15, Zuma, Holder 20, Electra, Soling, Ross 930, Star, J-24, J-22, Pearson 26, Ensign, and whatever else I have raced at least a few times. It is different and while I am figuring it out I am noticing steady improvement and enjoying the thrill every time I get another new thing figured out. 

The boat does some very special things I find so enjoyable I find myself offering friends to take my new toy for spin. 

I am not interested  in parking my Laser or ceasing to Sail on J22 and J-24. If there are boats on my list you have not ever sailed, unless your body won’t allow it, every boat listed above has the ability to give you a new and interesting experience. 

I got to race in a fleet of AEROs this weekend and even won a trophy. I had a whole lot of fun. My guess is most of you who have read this post would enjoy an AERO ride. 

 

 

  • Like 7
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2018 at 11:34 AM, onepointfivethumbs said:

and yet US SAILING was one of the countries that put forth a proposal for "mixed offshore keelboat" in the first place. Weird.

If they don't ratify the amendment today I wonder if they'll keep the 2016 slate (pending the EU Antitrust Lawsuit) or revert to the May decision and try to make sense of "Mixed Singlander".

It ain't over until the Finn sailor sings.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

On the AERO I am still figuring it out. My AERO sailing is currently like my first few races  on a Snipe, Sidewinder, FJ, 420, E Scow, US 1, Sunfish, Whio, Columbia Contender, Bandit 15, Flying Dutchman, Mobjack, Y Flyer, Lightning, Blue Jay, Highlander, Rhodes Bantam, Tech Dinghy, 470, Copperhead,  Fireball, Columbia 9.6, Thistle, Southcoast 21, Merit 25, C-15, Zuma, Holder 20, Electra, Soling, Ross 930, Star, J-24, J-22, Pearson 26, Ensign, and whatever else I have raced at least a few times. It is different and while I am figuring it out I am noticing steady improvement and enjoying the thrill every time I get another new thing figured out.

 

That is quite a list Gouv!

No Buccaneer 18 racing?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2018 at 11:36 AM, Gouvernail said:

@nieptun I feel like responding to two of your statements  

1. Why do you say the Laser has a better “mast tube?”

2. The first indicator a Laser hull is a little bit softer comes when hitting some chop. The hull flexes occasionally. When it is much much  older it flexes on every wave.

note: New boats built in the seventies were more flexible brand new than “modern” Lasers and deteriorated at a much more rapid pace. Modern resins are much better than anything we had in the  seventies and the original foam  core  was simply not the right stuff fir the application. Decent foam coring material didn’t exist 

1.
The main reason, Longer mast post tube = less forces. Aero has extremally short mast post tube.
Second reason poor quality of the plastic mast collar which generates more friction than aluminum Laser column. 

2.
 I am surprised that you feel the changes after a year of sail. When was built your boat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nieptun said:

1.
The main reason, Longer mast post tube = less forces. Aero has extremally short mast post tube.
Second reason poor quality of the plastic mast collar which generates more friction than aluminum Laser column. 

(The AERO mast seems to rotate freely and the shorter tube height seems adequate to be perfectly sturdy. )

2.
 I am surprised that you feel the changes after a year of sail. When was built your boat?

( Every Laser I have ever owned has eventually lost its stiffness and I have bought new ones to replace those used toys. Answering your question?  I have owned more than these but here is a partial list 

1969, 10252,  37xxc, 54xxx, 80589, 106454, 116160, 132xxx, 147xxx, 156xxx, 162xxx, 164xxx, 170xxx, 175002, 188109, and I just found an unused 106xxx boat about a year ago and it is not holding up well. I think it’s age combined with the fact newer boats are better to begin with  is painfully obvious and the boat simply does not go full speed. 

 

  • Like 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, tillerman said:

It ain't over until the Finn sailor sings.

I think it was either a year or eighteen months that the IOC had to accept their amendments, and we all know they don't give a shit what WS does because they view them as comparable to Golf or Synchronized Swimming. We'll see if this antitrust lawsuit goes anywhere, but for now I haven't mailed the suspicious envelope to Andy Hunt...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Spanish Sailing Federation is "totally de acuerd, de acord, de agree with the cheims" 

Honestly, this is painful to watch...

And I have no idea what she's saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have candidates been determined/stated for the mixed two-person dinghy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have little doubt that various entities will make pitches.

But they (RS) need to be careful, if they get up in say the doublehanded slot, that will work against them in the singlehander slot.

I have 2 Olympic classes, at one stage I had 3 and that was very much known as 1 too many.

Plus managing 2 new entries into the Olympics as in 2 new classes would be impossible.

Had this conversation at a Tasar function yesterday. Non-Olympic boats tend to be own by the sailors.   Olympic boats are owned of funded in most part by MNA's or Clubs, and the sole focus is performance.   Sure, lots of entries and "privateers" but the RS from the major nations set the pace.  So if they break a boat, they get a new one, it's an incentive to break the boat~!    Any little nitch will be found and be exploited be it destructive or performance gaining and that nitch will become known and they will do the +/- thing and it will break.

There are no niceties about this, its business, they don't give a damm, and they get outraged when say they pack a 49er rudder stock with Hard packing, which breaks the stock, and I refused to increase the casting because all that would do is break the rudder blade or the pintals (both of which they do)!

So some, person in the back on nowhere starts a campaign to discredit me, because his pet project, was no longer.    Welcome to the Olympic world.

     Jb

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.. also, keep in mind that olympic sailors (will have to) take the boats to extremes. If the it is faster to pull excessive amounts of cunningham.. the sailors add extra purchase and pull off the webbing in the top of the sail.. as happened in the laser. If it is faster to overkick, that is done with plenty of bent booms and lower sections.. as happens in laser all the time. What will break in the aero if and when these boats are taken beyond the limit?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely, it is their job to test the limits so by definition they need to find where it breaks!

And break, it will, over and over again!

             Jb

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, JulianB said:

I have little doubt that various entities will make pitches.

But they (RS) need to be careful, if they get up in say the doublehanded slot, that will work against them in the singlehander slot.

I have 2 Olympic classes, at one stage I had 3 and that was very much known as 1 too many.

Plus managing 2 new entries into the Olympics as in 2 new classes would be impossible.

Had this conversation at a Tasar function yesterday. Non-Olympic boats tend to be own by the sailors.   Olympic boats are owned of funded in most part by MNA's or Clubs, and the sole focus is performance.   Sure, lots of entries and "privateers" but the RS from the major nations set the pace.  So if they break a boat, they get a new one, it's an incentive to break the boat~!    Any little nitch will be found and be exploited be it destructive or performance gaining and that nitch will become known and they will do the +/- thing and it will break.

There are no niceties about this, its business, they don't give a damm, and they get outraged when say they pack a 49er rudder stock with Hard packing, which breaks the stock, and I refused to increase the casting because all that would do is break the rudder blade or the pintals (both of which they do)!

So some, person in the back on nowhere starts a campaign to discredit me, because his pet project, was no longer.    Welcome to the Olympic world.

     Jb

 

 

Do you think that re evaluation is serious...or is it all already defined?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK - we know the one-person dinghy possibilities. What would be serious contenders for the two-person mixed? Just to get the juices flowing:

470 (incumbent), RS500 (modernish), Tasar (just a boat I really like), Snipe (international). I can certainly hear the groans now about the old boats. I am not saying an old boat would be right, but outside the skiffs, what is really new in the 2-person boat world that would work for a mixed crew? And, honestly, short of a foiling boat, no choice will increase the TV market - and even then sailing won't ever be a big sell on TV.

Anyway - I have no dog in this fight, just wondering what people think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/29/2018 at 3:51 PM, onepointfivethumbs said:

If I had it my way?

1. Men's Heavy Singlehander (Finn)

2. Men's Light Singlehander (Laser/Aero 7/D-Zero/Whatever)

3. Women's Heavy Singlehander (Radial)

4. Women's Light Singlehander (Europe/4.7/Aero 5/Whatever)

5. Mixed 49er FX

6. Mixed 470

7. Mixed Nacra 17F

8. Men's Foiling Kite

9. Women's Foiling Kite

Look I just saved WS whatever the cost of the infrastructure and scoring for the 10th event would be, and nobody has to chop off an arm to make weight. Go me.

Contrary to this, and probably most people's opinions on this page, I think there would be lots to gain by just dropping the single handed dinghy classes all together, what other types of boats can you sail that have constant uncontrollable leeward mast bend and rotate in a hole instead of nearly all other dinghies, sport boats and keel boats where the mast is stepped and supported by shrouds? Single handed sailing should sill have a spot in the Olympics, but it should be for windsurfers and kiters, not slow dinghies that are constricted by hull speed and the same principle rig characteristics of a sunfish.

so, potentially:

Men's foiling kite class

Women's foiling kite class

Men's foiling windsurfing class

Women's foiling windsurfing class

Men's 49er

Women's 49er fx

Men's 470

Women's 470

mixed foiling Nacra 17 (with different foils that are easier to control)

mixed Elliot 6m match racing (I'll just leave this here because I don't see why this part of the sport gets the attention it deserves)

Also, it's important to include both kiters and windsurfers because of the very different infrastructure needs to support either, kiters need long stretches of beach to set their kites whereas windsurfers can hop off a dock with their rig. This is an important distinction that will keep kiting from supplanting windsurfing in the future.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, AvidSailor said:

Contrary to this, and probably most people's opinions on this page, I think there would be lots to gain by just dropping the single handed dinghy classes all together, what other types of boats can you sail that have constant uncontrollable leeward mast bend and rotate in a hole instead of nearly all other dinghies, sport boats and keel boats where the mast is stepped and supported by shrouds? Single handed sailing should sill have a spot in the Olympics, but it should be for windsurfers and kiters, not slow dinghies that are constricted by hull speed and the same principle rig characteristics of a sunfish.

so, potentially:

Men's foiling kite class

Women's foiling kite class

Men's foiling windsurfing class

Women's foiling windsurfing class

Men's 49er

Women's 49er fx

Men's 470

Women's 470

mixed foiling Nacra 17 (with different foils that are easier to control)

mixed Elliot 6m match racing (I'll just leave this here because I don't see why this part of the sport gets the attention it deserves)

Also, it's important to include both kiters and windsurfers because of the very different infrastructure needs to support either, kiters need long stretches of beach to set their kites whereas windsurfers can hop off a dock with their rig. This is an important distinction that will keep kiting from supplanting windsurfing in the future.

Do you know what the majority of sailors race?

Those damn slow Single- or double-handed dinghies.

I can go to any club in the WORLD and find at lease one Laser or Sunfish, or hopefully in ten or fifteen years an Aero or a D-one. I think there are only three or four 49ers in my entire state and one Nacra 17.     

If you include kites you HAVE to have a big beach, which some host nations might not be able to afford or which might just not be geographically feasible. I also think it's incredibly arrogant that WS thinks they can be the governing body for kiteboarding and windsurfing even though they can't get their own house in order. 

They tried match racing in 2012 and it didn't work, the WMRT seems to be doing well enough for itself.

My argument has always been that Windsurfing != Sailing and Kiteboarding != Sailing, and they should be admitted as Olympic events governed by themselves and in a format that they can work with. It seems that the majority of Kiteboarders are into the big-air, freestyling part of the sport and not windward-leeward triangles, so they should be judged on that basis.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

I can go to any club in the WORLD and find at lease one Laser or Sunfish

Sunfish? I've been racing for decades and never even seen a Sunfish.

On the water, propelled by the wind, that's sailing. Windsurfing and kiteboarding are sailing. 

"The WMRT seems to be doing well enough for itself." Funny idea of doing well enough. A few years ago it was broke and bought out, changed to racing cats. The current owner has apparently had enough and recently sold it on again. The future is unclear. There's an interview somewhere on SA.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2018 at 11:24 PM, Gouvernail said:

The main reason, Longer mast post tube = less forces. Aero has extremally short mast post tube.

  • Unfortunalately,  Laser are made only using CSM. It make them get soft very fast with extreme use.....usually around a year with the top sailors. In countries that dont have laser builders , they are very expensive to replace(around 15000USD). Even with a shorter post tube,  using double bias fabric I believe it´s enough for long lasting.  Probably  Aero use a kind of fabric because it is made of epoxi. In Brasil and Argentina, a funny thing happens, top sailors need two Lasers....one for practice and other for competition.  Due the price,  we have practice hulls also.  With the same shape and weight, with infused decks and double bias fabric, pehaps it won´t be soft.
  • But Even  with a same price, would be nice to have a new olimpic dinghy,  especially if it worth it price.
  • Anyway for southamerica the only fair decision would be a MCOD boat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

On the water, propelled by the wind, that's sailing. Windsurfing and kiteboarding are sailing. 

Strange that rowing and canoeing aren't lumped together  - on the water, propelled by paddles... And technically the IC is part of the International Canoe Federation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bill4 said:

Strange that rowing and canoeing aren't lumped together  - on the water, propelled by paddles... And technically the IC is part of the International Canoe Federation.

Not that the IC has anything to do with the conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites