dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2019

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Talking 100 footer sailmaking 

 

 

That guy dared to ask intelligent questions.  Good grief !  He'll never get a job with the 7 network.

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16 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

To be compliant with the digital age and international SAR  requirements any HF must be DSC compatible. The CYC don't make DSC HF a mandatory requirement for reasons above and so the Australian taxpayer pays to have HF voice only monitored just for this race.

- The alternative is the CYC accept Sat Phone which is not an SAR accepted platform OR insist all competitors switch over to recognised SAR satellite terminals. 

Yes, if you're talking about commercial vessels using GMDSS stations. But this is a yacht race and the boats should only have to comply with their national regulations for communications. It has nothing to do with IMO requirements for merchant ships.

The CYC could accept a sat phone OR HF as a means of checking in if they wanted to. 

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28 minutes ago, Zonker said:

But this is a yacht race and the boats should only have to comply with their national regulations for communications. It has nothing to do with IMO requirements for merchant ships.

Zonc didn't say it was a IMO requirement (which is >300t). The IMO reference was to underpin HF technology and it's status in safety communications. HF voice ceased being monitored by AMSA at Charleville and Wiluna years ago.

DSC HF as a mandatory requirement in World Sailing and Australian Sailings Offshore Regulations for Cat 1 Races is as follows.

WS.

3.29.10 an MF/HF marine SSB transceiver (GMDSS/DSC) with at least 125 W  transmitter power and frequency range from at least 1.6 to 29.9 MHz with  permanently installed antenna and earth.

AS

3.25.1 The following waterproof or marine standard communication equipment shall be provided:
(a) (i) Permanently installed HF transceiver.
(ii) All new HF transceivers shall be DSC capable.
(i) It is recommended that all HF transceivers be DSC.

(c) A satellite phone is recommended. The satellite phone should have coverage of the race area, and be connected to the main power or have a spare battery.

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Zonc didn't say it was a IMO requirement (which is >300t). The IMO reference was to underpin HF technology and it's status in safety communications. HF voice ceased being monitored by AMSA at Charleville and Wiluna years ago.

DSC HF as a mandatory requirement in World Sailing and Australian Sailings Offshore Regulations for Cat 1 Races is as follows.

WS.

3.29.10 an MF/HF marine SSB transceiver (GMDSS/DSC) with at least 125 W  transmitter power and frequency range from at least 1.6 to 29.9 MHz with  permanently installed antenna and earth.

AS

3.25.1 The following waterproof or marine standard communication equipment shall be provided:
(a) (i) Permanently installed HF transceiver.
(ii) All new HF transceivers shall be DSC capable.
(i) It is recommended that all HF transceivers be DSC.

(c) A satellite phone is recommended. The satellite phone should have coverage of the race area, and be connected to the main power or have a spare battery.

yeh - well then we can have the argument as to whether this should be a cat1 race.

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39 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

yeh - well then we can have the argument as to whether this should be a cat1 race.

Dunc the above Special Regs for DSC HF also apply to Cat 2. As you know RO's have the discretion to amend Special Regs as they see fit.

Good luck come Thursday.

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44 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

yeh - well then we can have the argument as to whether this should be a cat1 race.

Thankfully the ocean and Bass Strait crossing races are organised by the most progressive club in Aus, as opposed to this race which is organised by the most regressive.

Hopefully in 2022, Sydney sailors will go for a breath of fresh air and join the 50th M2H and check out the Tassie west coast.

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After years on race boats,  I finally got on to a biggish comfy boat 6 races ago,  AND I'm still waiting for the hard on the wind race to make it worthwhile!

Ahh but X Boats do have good fridges so at least there is a cold beverage each afternoon.

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Ta,

 

first half is looking pretty good for us small suckers.

Dunc, have a fast safe trip

Cheers

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15 hours ago, lydia said:

The real practical problem here is not the use of HF but the use of only one race frequency

it amazes me that the brains trust at the cyca don’t come to grips with this and the both the limitations and benefits of hf

In the past to me having used hf in different circumstances most of my life that boats have been dsq under the green cape rule becuase they were both not close enough to the relay vessel and at the same time too close as that is the nature of hf propagation 

secondly boat arrive at green cape thoughout a 24 hour period so too bad if you are there at 1200hours and there is a lot of solar activity that week

But with one one race frequency you cannot fix that

So the smoke should not mean that the hf will not propagate but the 6 meg race frequency may not be the appropriate frequency to  be using where as 8 meg would be better or even 4 meg depending on time of day and distance to relay vessel

but of course you cannot try different frequencies only the race frequency

years ago there was always multiple race frequencies

maybe the radio operators knew more back then

maybe auto tuners means people don’t have to learn how hf really works

Someone who understands radio propogation

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39 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Someone who understands radio propogation

Well it certainly ain't Witty with his bushfire propogation theory.

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I'm seeing the weather forecasts as there's plenty of pressure for most of the race? Am I wrong?  The $$$ question is there enough for the Big Indian to win or is this a 2 horse Skinny Minny Race? I'm not seeing the Derwent park ups like the last 2 years? If you think it's BJ or Oats you can bet on both and still come out ahead if one of them wins. Jack over to you you seem to have gotten the forecasts right and you picked Alive last year and were spot on. Thoughts...? 

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2 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

 

port-woxi.jpg

 

SOFt Shackle must be his new tactician:

On 12/25/2019 at 12:49 AM, Schakel said:

Start will be direct into the wind. Good for speed controll, bad for manouvering.
Port has priority as we all know.

 

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4 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

 

port-woxi.jpg

Lol made me remember the first time I went to Sydney and we were on a friend's boat coming back from the Heads. He let me drive and I cheerily said "red, right, returning, right?" and he said "Wha...god NO."  I had some reading to do. 

Webcam looks clear sky so fingers crossed no smoke for the start.

 

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GFS seems to think the best winds in the Hobart area won't be until 3-4 days after the start...  could favor corrected times from the back of the fleet.

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6 hours to go.

WOXI AIS Received: 14 hours, 23 minutes ago........check

Hair dyed.....................................................................check

 

 

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8 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Someone who understands radio propogation

CYCA are not alone on this one.

The clowns at a well known SE QLD club which conducts a controversial east coast race  had us doing a 2 MHz sked at midday in august to a base station 500 miles inland.

As another experienced owner tried to explain to them, we would have more chance if we stood on the back of the boat and yelled at Charleville radio

 

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5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

 

SOFt Shackle must be his new tactician:

 

Ignore function. Saves eye control muscles unnecessary wear and tear from excessive involuntary eye rolling. 

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58 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Best way to watch the start in NZ? Prob been covered, so soz. 

 

Merry Christmas, ya filthy animals. 

 

Nic hasn't been able to show the start in the past, but I think she's said this year that she is.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/sailorgirlHQ/videos/

Apparently people outside Aus can watch the start from https://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/

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4 sailors decided to go sailing. Pete Luke, Jack Earl, Bert Walker and John Illingworth didn't know it, but they created a moment in history. 

6 days, 14 hours and 22 mins Illingworth took to skipper a little Lake Macquarie wooden 35'er called Maharani over the finish line after conditions that would have tested the boats and crew mercilessly. Percy Coverdale skippering Winston Churchill was still becalmed 100nm  away when "Rani" crossed the finish line, the minor fact he'd set sail from Hobart days before the start with a broken arm sustained from a winch mishap just adding more color to a race that would go on to spurn a thousand similar stories.

I am struck by the esteem and regard we sailors have for these forefathers of this crazy sport called offshore yacht racing.

And what is most striking for me is it is not just their seamanship skills that demands such respect, but the integrity of character and sense of fair play and sportsmanship that would become, more than any other sport in history, synonymous with the term sailor. I would hope that as a sport we have a moment to reflect on the legacy handed to us, and we remember and respect that it was these traditions, not our seamanship,  that coined the phrase 'the sport of gentlemen'.  

For those administering and competing in this years Hobart, one could do worse than remember the example left to us by these forefathers of our sport.

Good luck, godspeed and fair winds to all the boats heading south!

SB

 

 

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Quote from the official site...

 

Follow the race | FAQs

Everything you need to know about the broadcast, updates and media around the 2019 Rolex Sydney Hobart

 

How can I watch the race start?

The 2019 Rolex Sydney Hobart will be broadcast in Australia on the screens of 7, with the race start telecast, featuring commentary from Mark Beretta and Peter Shipway, on 7 Mate from 12:30pm. Australian viewers on the go can also watch the broadcast on 7plus, with additional camera footage from on board InfoTrack available via the streaming service. International viewers can watch the broadcast live on the official race website – rolexsydneyhobart.com. Fox Sports Asia and ABC Australia will also broadcast the race start live to their respective international markets.

Will there be other coverage during the race?

Full race coverage will continue on the race website throughout the 2019 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race, with live race-end broadcasts of the line honours finish and overall battle. Rolling coverage throughout the race will be created for the official race Facebook pagethe Twitter account and of course the race website.

I’m a competitor – can I submit content?

Absolutely! Email us your pics, video and written updates throughout the race! Send content to media@cyca.com.au

Where can I catch the best bits of media coverage?

The Rolex Sydney Hobart will curate daily the best bits of media content that's made available for public consumption. Make sure you return to the Rolex Sydney Hobart homepage for your daily fix!

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Interesting that folks dissing the HF mandate all seem to harp on the organizing authorities and push the satellite as the alternative. 
 

When the HF’s primary function is to coordinate between boats out there - but I can see the “me me me” narrative take over. 

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This has always been an Australian issue because of distance and proximity of rescue assets

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2 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

6 hours to go.

WOXI AIS Received: 14 hours, 23 minutes ago........check

Hair dyed.....................................................................check

 

 

 

Waterproof gel ?

List titled " Naughty words I must not say ".

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Been helping with some routing for one team.  Without giving too much away here is some generic input.  Wish I was there, but work got in the way:(

Small boat year?

four comps.JPG

fourcomps.JPG

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There are a couple of elements to the HF argument that need to be mentioned.

The radio propagation on a system like HF does indeed depend on atmospherics but on upper atmosphere conditions as much as (probably more than) heavy smoke.

The signal bounces off the ionosphere and depending on the height of that layer in relationship to the distance between the two radios, different frequencies will be received by the receiving earth station with different strengths and clarity(2 different things) so the determination by the CYCA that only one frequency can be used will mean some signals will be received stronger than others.

It's the primary reason that the red distress button sends the call across ore than one frequency.

Back in my bad boy days I was into CB in the UK and on 72 upper side band you could (at times) speak to American truckers from the UK Midlands as if they were parked up next to you. At other times, primarily when sun-spot activity was different you had no chance because the ionosphere was at a different altitude - the quality of what we used to call 'the skip' all down to relationship between the frequency and that altitude.

It does seem strange that the CYCA is unaware of this or at least unwilling to have more than just the one frequency as a calling channel.  That said they do know that bit of water better than me and maybe checks have been made to ensure that the relationship between frequency, height and distance will ensure the most reliable chance of a signal getting through. 

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11 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Anyone willing to WOXI doing the hat trick of protests?

as in a Gordie Howe Hat Trick ? A goal, an assist and a fight ? 

What's the equivalent: a class win, a protest and a bar fight ?

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9 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Jack over to you you seem to have gotten the forecasts right and you picked Alive last year and were spot on. Thoughts...? 

Terra weather favours TP's (Ichi) over mini maxis (Alive), WOXI and BJ mods now have them converged and crossing slightly, that point I think favours WOXI this outing. WOXI will be protested 3rd time running...will survive even though their Green Cape HF call in came from WOX moored at Pittwater.

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33 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

There are a couple of elements to the HF argument that need to be mentioned.

The radio propagation on a system like HF does indeed depend on atmospherics but on upper atmosphere conditions as much as (probably more than) heavy smoke.

The signal bounces off the ionosphere and depending on the height of that layer in relationship to the distance between the two radios, different frequencies will be received by the receiving earth station with different strengths and clarity(2 different things) so the determination by the CYCA that only one frequency can be used will mean some signals will be received stronger than others.

It's the primary reason that the red distress button sends the call across ore than one frequency.

Back in my bad boy days I was into CB in the UK and on 72 upper side band you could (at times) speak to American truckers from the UK Midlands as if they were parked up next to you. At other times, primarily when sun-spot activity was different you had no chance because the ionosphere was at a different altitude - the quality of what we used to call 'the skip' all down to relationship between the frequency and that altitude.

It does seem strange that the CYCA is unaware of this or at least unwilling to have more than just the one frequency as a calling channel.  That said they do know that bit of water better than me and maybe checks have been made to ensure that the relationship between frequency, height and distance will ensure the most reliable chance of a signal getting through. 

Good explanation for the punters

the art is in landing the signal in the right spot but you can only skip the signal so many times

not sure CYCA really understand or care

over the years they have gone to ch 608 and now back to 4 mhz

years ago there was 2 ,4 and 6 MHz frequency as alternative race channels

but I will say transmission conditions are very different from on end of the course to the other so maybe 4483 is the compromise over the whole course

But the explanation also explains why a boat can be not close enough and at the same time too close on 4 MHz as the signal is bouncing over the relay vessel 

there was a very obvious example of a green cape dsq a few years ago and I had a quick look at the distances at the time and thought , yep

i still use hf at the bottom end of the race course although the tas maritime vhf repeater set up is a cracker 

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37 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

The radio propagation on a system like HF does indeed depend on atmospherics but on upper atmosphere conditions as much as (probably more than) heavy smoke.

Witt did get it right about smoke effecting radio transmissions as fire services will attest to. However that is UHF/VHF (line of sight). Also there have been numerous studies that show that the refraction it causes is by a chemical associated with grass component, not bush fires.

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From the front page:

Quote

As more than 150 yachts are set to charge down the Harbour at 13:00 Sydney time, the smaller entrants believe they are at even more of a disadvantage than usual.

The harbour is relatively narrow, which means that it would be unsafe to cram everyone from 100-footers to 30-footers together on the same starting line.

Has no one from Australia seen a Fastnet start? More boats in a tighter space and it normally goes off fine. Maybe we are just better at looking where we are going and following the RRS up here in the Northern hemisphere? 

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5 minutes ago, Quagers said:

From the front page:

Has no one from Australia seen a Fastnet start? More boats in a tighter space and it normally goes off fine. Maybe we are just better at looking where we are going and following the RRS up here in the Northern hemisphere? 

Swap you your spectator fleet for ours

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9 minutes ago, Quagers said:

Has no one from Australia seen a Fastnet start? More boats in a tighter space and it normally goes off fine. Maybe we are just better at looking where we are going and following the RRS up here in the Northern hemisphere? 

Have YOU not seen a WOXI start?

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2 minutes ago, Latadjust said:

Have YOU not seen a WOXI start?

Maybe they should have their own special start line, for safety purposes. Perhaps 12 hours before the rest of the fleet.

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Good luck out there. 
 

I don’t understand the Wild Oats hate. They are the most dedicated & successful team to ever do this race. Without WOXI, Comanche would not have come down under & BJ probably be racing in the Med & you’d be watching Scally V. Info. 

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2 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Good luck out there. 
 

I don’t understand the Wild Oats hate. They are the most dedicated & successful team to ever do this race. Without WOXI, Comanche would not have come down under & BJ probably be racing in the Med & you’d be watching Scally V. Info. 

I knew I was going to get some flack for that, but I kid because I love. 

When i was a kid racing Sea Shells (8' pram in Santa Barbara) I had an old, painted boat and these hot-shot twins had beautiful, varnished mahogany light-wt boats.  Every time they'd be coming across on Port, I'd call "Starboard" & they'd be like "ya right", so I'd meekly bear away. My Dad got after me about that and said "Next time they do that, you HIT THEM!" Yes Sir. Next time, BANG!!

They never came near me again. 

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25 minutes ago, Quagers said:

From the front page:

Has no one from Australia seen a Fastnet start? More boats in a tighter space and it normally goes off fine. Maybe we are just better at looking where we are going and following the RRS up here in the Northern hemisphere? 

I have, I notice how they start each division individually and not all at the same time.

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1 minute ago, Latadjust said:

I knew I was going to get some flack for that, but I kid because I love. 

 

Don’t flatter yourself, I was taking generally. 

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6 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

I have, I notice how they start each division individually and not all at the same time.

Yeah, they start the slow boats first and the fast boats last so that everyone gets to Hurst castle, the narrowest bit of the course, at the same time! Just to make it extra fun for the big boats.

If everyone is starting at the same time the big boats shouldn't need a separate start line, just get a clean start on the gun and fuck off into the distance. Can't manage that, then go home and let the owner pay some pros who can.

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9 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

I have, I notice how they start each division individually and not all at the same time.

These guys manage

 

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3 minutes ago, armchairadmiral said:

thx for your help Latadjust....very helpful and civil !

Sorry, I knew it wasn't very helpful but I did think it was civil. But I should have said "Ask your mom", I mean, a couple posts up the thread, "Your Mom" gave a very helpful reply. Cheers!

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48 minutes ago, Quagers said:

From the front page:

Has no one from Australia seen a Fastnet start? More boats in a tighter space and it normally goes off fine. Maybe we are just better at looking where we are going and following the RRS up here in the Northern hemisphere? 

Four lines does seem excessive, if I recall correctly it was only for the 50th race that they went to TWO lines, and that was over 300 boats racing. 

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54 minutes ago, lydia said:

Swap you your spectator fleet for ours

Don't think they would like to swap the competitor fleet though175 in a big year down under and 300+ in a normal Fastnet with entries full in 5 minutes

Better to do than watch 

Just winding you up though and if I remember correctly the Fastnet is one line but staggered start so also a washing machine effect for some boats.

90 minutes& counting!!

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Nic should be able to broadcast up until the TV coverage starts. Ridiculous from CYCA and Channel 7. 

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 Prediction: BJ to lead out the heads. Comanche to put a big smackdown on everyone and just about lose it on the derwent but just hold on. Oats second Scallywag good solid effort but battles hard for a 4th

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Staggered starts, whether by distance or time offset make sense.

Putting multiple size/speed boats on the same start is a recipe for chaos,  toss in multi's that accelerate and tack differently if you want real fun. 

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Is there an international live stream online yet?

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the local broadcast has not even commenced yet. 30 minutes time. Reckon the online coverage will start then. Wonder which 'expert' they'll trot out this year? 

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3 minutes ago, richiec said:

the local broadcast has not even commenced yet. 30 minutes time. Reckon the online coverage will start then. Wonder which 'expert' they'll trot out this year? 

Gary Jobson is always good for a laugh.

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4 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

7plus has a live video feed from Infotrack. Riveting stuff, not.

Have you got any sound on infotrack on 7plus?

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1 minute ago, The Dark Knight said:

Sailorgirl has an "offshore" team waiting in Cronulla and they will broadcast live as soon as Ch7 stops broadcasting

 

 

Thanks

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1 minute ago, The Dark Knight said:

Sailorgirl has an "offshore" team waiting in Cronulla and they will broadcast live as soon as Ch7 stops broadcasting

 

 

Will prob be better then the channel 7 shit show

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15 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

The CYCA has posted the youtube link for the live broadcast starting at 12:30

You can watch a countdown clock until then...

 

 

Live now...

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glad it wasn't just me

 

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7 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

What's up with the shit aspect ratio???

Agreed it's all squished everyone's lost 30 lbs

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