dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2019

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19 minutes ago, Mr. Coventry said:

Black Jack will soon be leading 

Will favour the fattys SW and Info in a few hours, about the same time C will be screaming in. 

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Took a swing at it using Exp with GFS from Predict wind, using 150% of a Volvo60 example polar... from Commanche position. 

image.thumb.png.a1ca144a09dd128c1f52f990ffc06e1f.png

basically 24 hrs to go

 

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Easterly starting to kick in, Indian (is actually further South & in the lead) best positioned for the next 4hrs

Anyone west of her will be hoping it goes NE sooner than forecast otherwise they will be taking Tassie to Port ..........

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Fuck me, a New World Record;

 

f,m.png

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18 minutes ago, AWASP said:

Easterly starting to kick in,

Westerlies on my map. Everyone seems to be in some breeze now.

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Westerlies on my map. Everyone seems to be in some breeze now.

You need a new map, Green Cape ESE at the moment, forecast is to go East then NE

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4 minutes ago, AWASP said:

You need a new map, Green Cape ESE at the moment, forecast is to go East then NE

I'm referring to the leading five boats, but yes ESE for the fleet further back.

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is that a protest flag on the starboard life lines (WOXI) at + 9:30 as they round the inner harbour mark inside SW?

Probably from earlier encounter.

I can't figure out how to post still of video.

 

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Coventry said:

Comanche up to 22 kts. now. She has stretched her legs 

Yes. She's looking good again. About 30nm lateral separation and sailing into a strengthening easterly.

 

1 minute ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

is that a protest flag on the starboard life lines (WOXI) at + 9:30 as they round the inner harbour mark inside SW?

Probably from earlier encounter.

I can't figure out how to post still of video.

 

Take a screen grab and drag it over to SA.

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Ha , thats funny.

From Mr Shouty in S2H2017.....

Richards gave a backhanded dig at the Comanche crew when asked if he would protest if the shoe was on the other foot.

Mark Richards celebrates with the Oatley family. Picture: Richard Jupe Mark Richards celebrates with the Oatley family. Picture: Richard Jupe

“100 per cent no, (I wouldn’t protest) it’s not the sort of thing we would do, I’m just not that sort of person.”

 

from...... https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/more-sports/wild-oats-xi-skipper-mark-richards-takes-swipe-at-comanche-for-lodging-protest/news-story/7577fd30097d54d589ad37e2985c4716

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9 minutes ago, Fast Laser said:

like WOXI was flying a red flag shortly after the port/starboard with Scallywag.

No good lee bow goes unpunished!

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3 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

No good lee bow goes unpunished!

SW earned that one. i wonder if they've done their turns? i know i would.

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Credit where credit is due...  Go Scally and Infotrack for the 1-2!

(Regarding the protest...  I saw that flag too...  but I sure as hell hope they didn't do turns...  that tack wasn't too close).

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Commanche winding up,  strong air ahead and a fatter angle, with a forecast that's hot all the way up the Derwent. 

< 18 hrs and it should be over, Dawn finish if they are slow 

 

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3 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

It was clean.

sure looked close, does that mean they wait until hobart to find out? thats risky considering.

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3 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Credit where credit is due...  Go Scally and Infotrack for the 1-2!

(Regarding the protest...  I saw that flag too...  but I sure as hell hope they didn't do turns...  that tack wasn't too close).

Question will be if having been publicly thrashed up course by the TP52's and R/P 60's they still want to go to the room, when the consensus is that they were cleanly lee-bowed. 

  

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My money was on Oats and BJ but I'd love Comanche or Scallywag to win. If the Indian get's some heat for the trip home she will be hard to beat.

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Forward-facing camera on WOXI had Scallywag squarely in their track; I'd be the last person to stand up for MR, but seemed obvious to me that WOXI had to maneuver to keep clear. How is that not a foul? 

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Just now, r22tahoe said:

Forward-facing camera on WOXI had Scallywag squarely in their track; I'd be the last person to stand up for MR, but seemed obvious to me that WOXI had to maneuver to keep clear. How is that not a foul? 

Not what I saw on the live footage. WO never had to alter course to avoid. SW was clear ahead and below. Almost perfect lee-bow.

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2 minutes ago, r22tahoe said:

Forward-facing camera on WOXI had Scallywag squarely in their track; I'd be the last person to stand up for MR, but seemed obvious to me that WOXI had to maneuver to keep clear. How is that not a foul? 

Hand Held Camera was not "forward facing", it had an angle.. 

If WOXI did not have to start avoiding before SW had competed her tack it's clean. 

that's why a few years back when WOXI tacked ahead of Commanche, they had to throw wheel before WOXI had completed tack. And datalog from instruments supported that they had held their course (were accused of hunting) till they made emergency avoidance.

 

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4 hours ago, LionIsland said:

With a 30m deficit I’m impressed with their spirit. I would’ve rated them a high chance of “this fully sucks, let’s go home.”
but I reckon if you can go on, then go on, and they are. So goodonem. Because I reckon it feels better to try and to lose than to just give in because you don’t like not going well and it sure is sometimes when it’s not working out so good, (of course sometimes for safety etc one must pull the pin) and like a friend says, “if you’ve tried and your competitors beat you then you give them that satisfaction.” 

At the end of the day, it’s all  just Competitive fun, if you must sit around on a boat for days. 

Pro tip: write your daily rate on the inside of your team issue ball cap so you can remind yourself why you're still racing.

 

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1 hour ago, AWASP said:

Easterly starting to kick in, Indian (is actually further South & in the lead) best positioned for the next 4hrs

Anyone west of her will be hoping it goes NE sooner than forecast otherwise they will be taking Tassie to Port ..........

Yep, my money is on Stan heading up to get to the new breeze, before reaching off with the pressure, to smoke the fleet (until the next re-start)

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2 hours ago, lydia said:

Why

30 miles is a hour at pace so not far behind really

If the other boat is nice enough to drop the anchor and wait for you ;-)

Just having fun.

It was cool to see our old boat in the pre-start with the old logo'd mainsail up (around -7.20or so) Well it is a low mileage  3Di Raw. More coverage than she got last time on the harbour.

4 hours ago, Fast Laser said:

Just after the start but before the first rounding mark, Scallywag tacked from port onto starboard to a lee bow position which forced WOXI to tack away.  Does anyone know if WOXI might have raised a protest flag for "tacking too close"?

I don't think the jury would thank them for wasting their time if they did, and the commentator calling "You can't do that, that was too close" - let his adrenaline run away with his mouth. You can't make a call before the incident is complete.

Scallywag on port (RRS10) went into a tack (RRS13) WOXI continued and started to tack once Scallywag was almost down to close hauled with at least 3-4 m lateral(windward leeward) separation. So tack complete and still gave WOXI room to keep clear. Completely different from 2017 where WOXI tacked right onto Comanche's line.

Richo clearly quite calm and any visit to the room would have been a short one. Very good audio coming from the boat with one word missing "Protest" therefore invalid protest.

The boats clearly wanted the left side of the course and Scallywag executed what looked like a perfect lee-bow tack which meant they were able to stay left and their upwash would have meant that WOXI couldn't live there so they had to (from a tactical point of view, not collision avoidance) tack away. On that point, right choice from WOXI

Could WOXI have prevented or defended the action?

Yes if, when Scallywag tacked to port or soon after, they (WOXI) went bow down a few degrees - only a few that wasn't noticeable from the other boat -  and then held their course Scallywag would still have to avoid but they would likely have attempted the lee bow earlier. As soon as they went into their tack Richo could bring the boat back onto close hauled with enough separation to roll Scallywag. But that would have meant thinking ahead and strategically.

All this is just my view but I have seen that done on multiple occasions and completely within the rules. In fact done it myself

RRS 13 "After passing head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close hauled course." Then read the definition for 'keep clear' 

I don't deny it was close but in my view having watched the playback half a dozen times, not TOO close.

Just Sayin'

& Compliments of the season to all.

 

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Just now, LionessRacing said:

Hand Held Camera was not "forward facing", it had an angle.. 

If WOXI did not have to start avoiding before SW had competed her tack it's clean. 

that's why a few years back when WOXI tacked ahead of Commanche, they had to throw wheel before WOXI had completed tack. And datalog from instruments supported that they had held their course (were accused of hunting) till they made emergency avoidance.

 

Looked like a close leebow to me at the time. I'm sure Ricco would protest if he thought it was a foul? It maybe irrelevant for the time being. Wild Oats would need to finish second to Scally and then lodge a protest. If Wild Oats isn't going to win LH I can't see anything happening IMO

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2 hours ago, lydia said:

Don’t bet on it look at the jury

so scallywag gets line honours but oats lodges a protest on the harbour incident despite showing no flag

Richo lodges the protest by finding the chairman of the jury in the bar at 0200hrs

protest accepted

 

Sorry wrong race!

 

Jury says but it is alright Mark you always intended to fly a flag and DWitt should have known you intended to fly a flag but if you go back to the boat now and fly the flag we will say that was flown as soon as practicable

We don,t need a hearing as we will accept everything you say and look this is pretty clear cut so we don’t need to hear from dwitt or his witnesses

Sorry wrong race again

but mark you can have line honours again and we have just held a rule 69 against dwitt and banned him for a year and we will tell him later

that will solve that pesky problems about untested allegations of rrs 69 breaches

wrong race again sorry silly me

The Muppets are everywhere.. 

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image.thumb.png.f0a26725fec59b82fed03747f341031c.png

Midway through the tack--at this heel angle how far do stand-on boat's rights extend?

not on their track, ok, I stand corrected. Still. . . close.

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8 minutes ago, r22tahoe said:

image.thumb.png.f0a26725fec59b82fed03747f341031c.png

Midway through the tack--at this heel angle how far do stand-on boat's rights extend?

not on their track, ok, I stand corrected. Still. . . close.

I am not saying it isn't close but not a foul - in my view.

RRS13 switches off when the tacking boat is down to a close hauled course and while 13 is on tacking boat must keep clear

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image.thumb.png.4ad76a120f62814dd9e29f5fd0817927.png

"Standby to tack"

image.thumb.png.bb93a419e81ae3adbdf9da396de43779.png

"Ok helm's down." Note that the bow has already come up a few degrees, as evidenced by the spectator boat and the aft edge of Infotrack's main.

Edited by r22tahoe
add note

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4 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

I am not saying it isn't close but not a foul - in my view.

agreed. heat of the moment and angle from oats made it look worse, i initially thought it really close.

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4 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Well. It is a Maserati!

Yes but the Sat Nav is still set for the northern hemisphere as it was also heading North.

 

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3 hours ago, SCANAS said:

+ It’s only 20nm spread in DTG  

SW   377

BJ    382

IT     384

COMANCHE 385

WOXI 397 

 

Only 13nm DTG between 1st - 5th place now. 

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It's about time the Oatleys got rid of WOXI and started from scratch with a new completely up to date maxi. They could finance it with a swear jar on board the current WO, I'm sure Richo would have been adding heaps to the kitty in the last 24 hours.

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2 hours ago, Sugarscoop said:

What happened to naval group. And why isn’t the Volvo 65 sailing Poland sailing? 

Did they charter Maserati? Look at the entrants names. 

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18 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

I am not saying it isn't close but not a foul - in my view.

Ditto.  No foul (nice of WOXI not to do any footing off to force the issue, though)

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Three things I saw there: Not a foul, damn near perfect leebow. Second, Protest was exclaimed. Third, and the most important. The protest flag was not on the lifeline prior to the incident, meaning someone had to pull it out of somewhere and post it. This means it should be invalid no matter if there was an infraction or not. WO is known for getting their way though, and I expect those sore losers to follow through with the protest if it means they can get a boat tossed to give them the line honours win. 

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Mr Honey earns his money ... :)

Untitled.jpg.2f35c140673a4cc88525591f07d05d86.jpg

 

circle is the Indians approx pos currently

 

also has the current highest SOG

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4 minutes ago, bodega87 said:

WO is known for getting their way though, and I expect those sore losers to follow through with the protest if it means they can get a boat tossed to give them the line honours win. 

Just like Comanche did? 

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24 minutes ago, bodega87 said:

Three things I saw there: Not a foul, damn near perfect leebow. Second, Protest was exclaimed. Third, and the most important. The protest flag was not on the lifeline prior to the incident, meaning someone had to pull it out of somewhere and post it. This means it should be invalid no matter if there was an infraction or not. WO is known for getting their way though, and I expect those sore losers to follow through with the protest if it means they can get a boat tossed to give them the line honours win. 

Depends on where it was pulled from. If it was from someone's pocket within a second or two, then I'd suggest that would probably be OK. Somewhere downstairs, not so much.

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4 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Does anyone know what is the big question that the fleet is asking?

Screen Shot 2019-12-27 at 10.55.03.png

What is the answer to life, the universe and everything in it?

 

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5 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

May need to find a way around three 100fters just to get to C.

Comanche still needs to compress to get to the turn.  If BJ is anywhere close it will be theirs to lose in the river.  I think WOXI has too much ground to make up at this point.

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13 minutes ago, dachopper said:

After a less than ordinary start.... Maverick has caught some TP52....

Would be more impressive if the 60s hadn't caught the 100s.

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1 hour ago, sledracr said:

Ditto.  No foul (nice of WOXI not to do any footing off to force the issue, though)

Would have been stupid also to prevent a boat that was keeping clear from doing so by altering course  - penalty on WOXI if she had

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9 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Comanche still needs to compress to get to the turn.  If BJ is anywhere close it will be theirs to lose in the river.  I think WOXI has too much ground to make up at this point.

About a half an hour, maybe 40 minutes behind.  That kind of distance can disappear fast if there's a park-up.

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33 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Well, except the foul against Comanche was much more obvious.

Was actually a foul.

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8 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Would have been stupid also to prevent a boat that was keeping clear from doing so by altering course  - penalty on WOXI if she had

Probably.  But Scallywag has no rights while tacking, they were already downspeed (had just tacked a few boatlengths ago) and, it would have been "easy" to go bow-down a little and force them to hurry their tack.

Not saying it's the right thing to do.  Just saying it's nice WOXI didn't do it.  Would have been a (perfectly legal) dick-move.

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37 minutes ago, DFL1010 said:

Depends on where it was pulled from. If it was from someone's pocket within a second or two, then I'd suggest that would probably be OK. Somewhere downstairs, not so much.

Interesting t see the flag on the starboard lifeline well forward. How could SW see it from leeward???

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12 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Probably.  But Scallywag has no rights while tacking, they were already downspeed (had just tacked a few boatlengths ago) and, it would have been "easy" to go bow-down a little and force them to hurry their tack.

Not saying it's the right thing to do.  Just saying it's nice WOXI didn't do it.  Would have been a (perfectly legal) dick-move.

It's called hunting. If Scallywag was adjudged to have been keeping clear in the tack and WOXI prevented them from

keeping clear that would have been the boat breaking the rules. (RRS16.1) Case 92 is probably relevant too.

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11 minutes ago, Philc said:

Interesting t see the flag on the starboard lifeline well forward. How could SW see it from leeward???

The flag was wrapped around the lifeline and then unfurled.

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.9 faster on SOG , soon to be back in P1

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2 hours ago, r22tahoe said:

image.thumb.png.4ad76a120f62814dd9e29f5fd0817927.png

"Standby to tack"

image.thumb.png.bb93a419e81ae3adbdf9da396de43779.png

"Ok helm's down." Note that the bow has already come up a few degrees, as evidenced by the spectator boat and the aft edge of Infotrack's main.

Worth noting that the camera position has shifted slightly to leeward in the second shot - look at the position of the port shrouds against the control panel or the gap between the primaries. Not much, but it will give a change in perspective against the horizon similar to WOXI heading up.  Not saying they weren't but it is hard to say from those shots.

Most decent boats have a turk's head on the wheel at 12 oclock so we can all see the rudder angle.  Apparently it's all digital on the newfangled boats these days;)

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bit of swapping going around...  Com now in first , infotrack taking second , and scally falling to third...   boy it would be nice to get some drone footage of those boats right now..

 

also an idle thought about the start..  it would be nice to have virtual start line graphic , would make the start that more interesting .

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They used to put a virtual line on the picture but they drew the line to the pin end from the VIP boat that has the cannon and not the start boat.  I guess the Producers are not sailors and cant read flags.

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The Big Indian on the charge. Stan has engineered them a very nice angle to Tassie with some breeze to boot. They"SHOULD" put some miles on the other 100's you'd think? The 1st 4 positions on handicap are TP52's...

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1 hour ago, sledracr said:

Probably.  But Scallywag has no rights while tacking, they were already downspeed (had just tacked a few boatlengths ago) and, it would have been "easy" to go bow-down a little and force them to hurry their tack.

Not saying it's the right thing to do.  Just saying it's nice WOXI didn't do it.  Would have been a (perfectly legal) dick-move.

Used to be called "hunting". I believe still allowed in match racing.

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11 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

The Big Indian on the charge. Stan has engineered them a very nice angle to Tassie with some breeze to boot. They"SHOULD" put some miles on the other 100's you'd think? The 1st 4 positions on handicap are TP52's...

Yep, Comanche running 10 degrees deeper and a few knots quicker, according to Windy Tracker. They will open out the lead til the next soft patch.

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1 minute ago, Sheetinmaxout said:

Used to be called "hunting". I believe still allowed in match racing.

Hahah now who would have done that Indian V Oats in 2017 ends with Spitthill , just saying ......

My concern at the time is that if Oats didn't tack they would have been plucking their wind instruments out of Scally's main .......

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Comanche already up 2nm, but the race between the 100s is still extremely close with oats only 13 back.

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15 minutes ago, Sheetinmaxout said:

Used to be called "hunting". I believe still allowed in match racing.

In match racing if your helm is not centred then you are altering.So if you ask for a penalty it will be greened every time and if you continue altering while the give way boat is doing everything it can any contact will be penalty on you. When, as the right of way boat, you alter course you have to give them room to keep clear RRS 16.1 Nothing in Appendix C changes this.

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9 minutes ago, Varan said:

Comanche already up 2nm, but the race between the 100s is still extremely close with oats only 13 back.

if the forecast on windy is right, big boat are going to get slapped hard with another drifter at the finish.  Could we be about to see the smallest overall winner in years?

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Comanche and Wild Oats the two fastest 100's. BJ taking a long time to get past Scallywag and it will. Oats will pass SW as well based on sheer consistent speed advantage. The Indian stretching and it may need to? The Indian needs to get to Tasman Island 10 miles ahead IMO. The rest will be with the Gods. 

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Seems we had this exact same conversation in 2017.  Nothing if not consistent. 

IMHO the only thing that makes the tack look close is the amount of money involved if they touched. Otherwise SW nailed the move, unlike WOXI in 2017, when MR overcooked it, badly. 

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5 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

if the forecast on windy is right, big boat are going to get slapped hard with another drifter at the finish.  Could we be about to see the smallest overall winner in years?

Going to be interesting to see where that hole ends up and who navigates through/around it. Looks like it will get realll light near Hobart around the time the big boys will be wrapping up. Could be close.

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