dachopper

Sydney to Hobart 2019

Recommended Posts

On 11/16/2019 at 2:23 AM, schakel488 said:

Why aren't these superyacht participating in this race.
Regulations ban out 100 feet plus yacht for sure but why?
http://theyachtphoto.com/Samurai/#SamuraiMichaelKurtz27.jpgSamuraiMichaelKurtz16.thumb.jpg.c543e691ed37cfd78220318f7283e60b.jpg
Samurai 140 feet

 

8 hours ago, TPG said:

That's the old Mari Cha IV. She was built like a brick shithouse.

I seem to remember that 1 year they did let a Super Yacht enter the race or sail as part of the race and I think it was “Mari Cha lV”. I think it was around the time that NZ was staging the Cup and it was a way to try and get some of the Supper Yacht in Australia. The NSW government were offering great deals to get the boats in Australia from memory and the CYC were asked help out by adding a Supper Yacht division for the race.

 

Pulpit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, pulpit said:

 

I seem to remember that 1 year they did let a Super Yacht enter the race or sail as part of the race and I think it was “Mari Cha lV”. I think it was around the time that NZ was staging the Cup and it was a way to try and get some of the Supper Yacht in Australia. The NSW government were offering great deals to get the boats in Australia from memory and the CYC were asked help out by adding a Supper Yacht division for the race.

 

Pulpit

1999. Mari Cha 3, I think also 140 ft. Had it’s own division and start, about 10 mins before the main start. Smoked it down the coast in the northerly and tied up in Hobart before the 50 knot southerly smashed the back half of the fleet.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, greasy al said:

1999. Mari Cha 3, I think also 140 ft. Had it’s own division and start, about 10 mins before the main start. Smoked it down the coast in the northerly and tied up in Hobart before the 50 knot southerly smashed the back half of the fleet.

I think that’s right. The old Mari Cha before the refit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, pulpit said:

If you go back into the 90’s the Hobart had a Upper speed limit / rating of about 1.600 from memory so all the front runners were at a even pace no matter what length they were. That’s why Sean Langman’s little 66 footer AAPT / Grundig / Xina was always on the heals of the maxi’s and was so close to knocking them off for line Honor’s 

 

Even Exile was running much bigger spinnakers and sails compared to Brindabella as the 1.600 rating just slowed Brindabella down. I’m shore if Brindabella was to have the same sail area to weight ratio as Exile or AAPT / Grundig / Xina she may of done a little better. Still you can’t make a silk perse out of a sow’s ear no matter how much sail area you through at it. 

 

It would be interesting to see what would happen if we through in a Upper rating / speed limit now to see how the supper maxi’s would compare, don’t you think ?

 

Pulpit 

I remember watching the start one year and Matador (yeah, the one that's now a backpacker bus out of Airlie) was sailing with a main that wasn't full hoist - the commentator noted that because of the rating limit she either had to sail with a fixed prop or fly smaller sails. That's probably the first time I tried (and failed) to get my head around handicap systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

I remember watching the start one year and Matador (yeah, the one that's now a backpacker bus out of Airlie) was sailing with a main that wasn't full hoist - the commentator noted that because of the rating limit she either had to sail with a fixed prop or fly smaller sails. That's probably the first time I tried (and failed) to get my head around handicap systems.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/16/2019 at 1:33 PM, mad said:

The issue was berthing not anchoring at full ocean.
Been drinking again lately? Follow the content....
By the way, I have been there, you did not, so you don't know where you are talking about 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am betting this is a dumb question but screw it I am asking anyway.

Considering WOXI suffered major structural failure causing them to withdraw from a qualifying race how are they then qualified for the S2H?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Little Wood Boats said:

I am betting this is a dumb question but screw it I am asking anyway.

Considering WOXI suffered major structural failure causing them to withdraw from a qualifying race how are they then qualified for the S2H?

150 mile / 24hr passage will need to be done I’m guessing. A number of boats will need to do this to qualify for Hobart. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

7-8 hours for WOXI on a breezy day

Unless they fit this fellow..! Wharro isn't in the Hobart so it could be Oats turn? This one is a boat killer......!

https://www.9news.com.au/national/giant-sunfish-swims-near-bondi-beach-in-sydney-australia-pacific-ocean/5a0bd487-0923-4e93-bf99-1ad932e99e88

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/17/2019 at 9:35 AM, Next Level said:

I think that’s right. The old Mari Cha before the refit.

Mari cha 3 it was, 146 foot ketch  designed in 97 designed by philippe briand this is the website for her. Pretty sure they were used as the radio relay vessel as the Young Endeavor was doing something else and were not in the actual race but held the 'passage record' they beat nokia by 2hrs. https://www.mari-cha.com/#specifications.  Mari cha 4/samurai is 140ft designed by Mr Elliott. Iirc they couldn't build a sloop Rob as they didn't have manual grinders/winches at the time to handle anymore sail area so went with the schooner rig. During the refit they also removed the canting keel, might be part of the reason she is alot more tender now too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, yachtie2k4 said:

Mari cha 3 it was, 146 foot ketch  designed in 97 designed by philippe briand this is the website for her. Pretty sure they were used as the radio relay vessel as the Young Endeavor was doing something else and were not in the actual race but held the 'passage record' they beat nokia by 2hrs. https://www.mari-cha.com/#specifications.  Mari cha 4/samurai is 140ft designed by Mr Elliott. Iirc they couldn't build a sloop Rob as they didn't have manual grinders/winches at the time to handle anymore sail area so went with the schooner rig. During the refit they also removed the canting keel, might be part of the reason she is alot more tender now too!

Who even signed off on the Samurai refit? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I know this happens before the Fastnet, but has there ever been safety inspections on the water pre race? 

Most of the tp52s only have 60-80L diesel tanks which is not enough for the rules, and I am guessing that they also don't have the capacity to carry the water required for the race. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Skipper_nz said:

So I know this happens before the Fastnet, but has there ever been safety inspections on the water pre race? 

Most of the tp52s only have 60-80L diesel tanks which is not enough for the rules, and I am guessing that they also don't have the capacity to carry the water required for the race. 

 

 

Most boats are inspected in a marina before the race. But once they leave the dock.... no

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Skipper_nz said:

So I know this happens before the Fastnet, but has there ever been safety inspections on the water pre race? 

Most of the tp52s only have 60-80L diesel tanks which is not enough for the rules, and I am guessing that they also don't have the capacity to carry the water required for the race. 

 

 

If you're not from the CYCA you can bet on getting inspected every time. I doubt that too many, if any of the top level boats cheat on fuel and water requirements, its just not worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you are from the CYC you have already been inspected!

In my 22 Hobarts, 20 on CYC boats,  we were inspected on both of the non-CYC boats & probably 4 or 5 of the other races,  including a spot check in Hobart one year.

So don't bet on not being checked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have done 10 races, have NEVER been check on the day, there has been checks on the 24TH and safety gear checks, but never a fuel or water check on the day or otherwise. Only the question of 'do you have the capacity to store XXX Litres of water' 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Skipper_nz said:

I have done 10 races, have NEVER been check on the day, there has been checks on the 24TH and safety gear checks, but never a fuel or water check on the day or otherwise. Only the question of 'do you have the capacity to store XXX Litres of water' 

As was mentioned above, if you're not from NSW, you will be audited, before xmas. This, despite an effort by YA to create an National Equipment Auditors scheme, so that all are on the same page, to prevent exactly this - getting audited in one state, is then not good enough for the CYC.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed those checks weren't on Boxing Day but in the lead up.  The check in Hobart (many years ago) was on the day of arrival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When, presumably, you could have used all your water and fuel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, DtM said:

When, presumably, you could have used all your water and fuel.

exactly, you dumped all that shit in the river 20 miles ago when it became apparent death was not indeed imminent 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dark Cloud said:

As was mentioned above, if you're not from NSW, you will be audited, before xmas. This, despite an effort by YA to create an National Equipment Auditors scheme, so that all are on the same page, to prevent exactly this - getting audited in one state, is then not good enough for the CYC.

 

It does suck here with the states controlling things. When my boat landed in Aus I needed to get the gas system upgraded. So i got it done in Sydney before I sailed it to Melbourne. I did not bother getting the work certified as I knew I would have to get it recertified in Victoria. Never bothered getting it certified in the end, as I knew I would not be turning the gas bottle on once I got it to Melbourne, so no chance of a gas fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SCANAS said:

You have to finish with a mandatory amount of water. 

No only at start

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, SCANAS said:

You have to finish with a mandatory amount of water. 

Seem to recall IOR maxi "Longobarda" was under charter one year when she ran out of water somewhere near Maria Island, there was no talk of disqualification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The CAT1 Audit form lists 1 litre emergency water per person. I was under the impression you have to finish with that as we have been audited at the finish of Gladstone’s & they check & have penalised a boat. I assumed Hobart was the same. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In some classes emergency water is sealed so they can check it, and in theory it's all the same offshore regs so that sounds right to me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not sure about various classes but I like to use the sealed 2 gallon jugs from any water company and just draw a sharpie Mark between the cap and the seal. You can then demonstrate that it’s remained sealed. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2019 at 10:24 AM, SCANAS said:

The CAT1 Audit form lists 1 litre emergency water per person. I was under the impression you have to finish with that as we have been audited at the finish of Gladstone’s & they check & have penalised a boat. I assumed Hobart was the same. 

Not in the Gladstone, you don't even have to start with it.

The race committee bring it out to you at Mooloolaba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lydia said:

Not in the Gladstone, you don't even have to start with it.

The race committee bring it out to you at Mooloolaba

Gold!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, lydia said:

Not in the Gladstone, you don't even have to start with it.

The race committee bring it out to you at Mooloolaba

That house has been cleaned recently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2019 at 1:01 AM, ALL@SEA said:

Seem to recall IOR maxi "Longobarda" was under charter one year when she ran out of water somewhere near Maria Island, there was no talk of disqualification.

Would disqualification be the penalty? 

I tried to google it but gave up, searching for "water" in sailing documents is stupid and I think it's easier to ask here :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

re: drinking water.

OSR's..

2.03 Inspection
** A boat may be inspected at any time. If she fails to comply with the OSR her entry may be rejected or she will be subject to protest

and.,.

3.21.3 Emergency Drinking Water
MoMu1,2,3

At least 9 l (2.4 US Gal) of drinking water for emergency use in a dedicated and sealed container or container(s)

 

So I'd interpret that as you must have all your OSR safety gear (which includes emergency drinking water) while racing.  Finish as well as start.

 

Otherwise.. you could ditch your flares, liferaft, etc etc..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

re: drinking water.

OSR's..

2.03 Inspection
** A boat may be inspected at any time. If she fails to comply with the OSR her entry may be rejected or she will be subject to protest

and.,.

3.21.3 Emergency Drinking Water
MoMu1,2,3

At least 9 l (2.4 US Gal) of drinking water for emergency use in a dedicated and sealed container or container(s)

 

So I'd interpret that as you must have all your OSR safety gear (which includes emergency drinking water) while racing.  Finish as well as start.

 

Otherwise.. you could ditch your flares, liferaft, etc etc..

 

50 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Sydney Hobart is not raced under OSR, the AS Special Regulations Category One apply

yeh, my bad. Completely different set of rules.

2.03 2.02.2 Inspection

A boat may be inspected at any time and shall demonstrate compliance with these regulations.

3.21.3 3.18.4 Emergency Drinking Water

at least 1 litre of water per crew member in addition to that required by clauses 3.18.2 and 3.18.3 shall be carried in a dedicated container or containers.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

3.18.4 Emergency Drinking Water

at least 1 litre of water per crew member in addition to that required by clauses 3.18.2 and 3.18.3 shall be carried in a dedicated container or containers.

 

 

Because  3.18.4 references 3.18.2 and 3.18.3 (an addition to that requirement) which require water to be carried at start, when read as a whole, I interpret the emergency drinking water to only be required at the start. But who knows how an auditor would interpret it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beer is 90% water. And it is for drinking. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rawhide said:

Because  3.18.4 references 3.18.2 and 3.18.3 (an addition to that requirement) which require water to be carried at start, when read as a whole, I interpret the emergency drinking water to only be required at the start. But who knows how an auditor would interpret it. 

I interpret the complete opposite.

3.18.2 - At least 2.5 litres of fresh water per crew member per 100 nautical miles of the course to be sailed shall be carried at the start of the race

3.18.3 - At least 2.5 litres of fresh water per crew member shall be carried at the start of the race.

3.18.4 Emergency drinking water: at least 1 litre of water per crew member in addition to that required by clauses 3.18.2 and 3.18.3 shall be carried in a dedicated container or containers.

 

Note that 3.18.4 does not mention "At start of the race" - therefore you must have it at the end.  If you use it, then I imagine you need to file for redress / non-compliance when finishing stating your reasons for doing so.

The outcome of any hearing will depend on how large your boat is, and if its name starts with "WO" or not.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

There should be 1 litre per person in the on board life raft anyhow?

https://sielearning.tafensw.edu.au/toolboxes/MaritimeOperations/TDMMF1101ASurviveatSea/Tools/11_01.htm

Some chat about that on the weekend, apparently you can count that as long as it’s listed on the kit & in date. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, duncan (the other one) said:

I interpret the complete opposite.

3.18.2 - At least 2.5 litres of fresh water per crew member per 100 nautical miles of the course to be sailed shall be carried at the start of the race

3.18.3 - At least 2.5 litres of fresh water per crew member shall be carried at the start of the race.

3.18.4 Emergency drinking water: at least 1 litre of water per crew member in addition to that required by clauses 3.18.2 and 3.18.3 shall be carried in a dedicated container or containers.

 

Note that 3.18.4 does not mention "At start of the race" - therefore you must have it at the end.  If you use it, then I imagine you need to file for redress / non-compliance when finishing stating your reasons for doing so.

The outcome of any hearing will depend on how large your boat is, and if its name starts with "WO" or not.

Sounds like we need to fly in a few international judges and senior council to sort this out

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The judges will simply say that the words do not mean what they say and that you don't need to carry any water at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, lydia said:

The judges will simply say that the words do not mean what they say and that you don't need to carry any water at all.

only if it's a CYCA flagged yacht.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2019 at 1:57 AM, Little Wood Boats said:

I am betting this is a dumb question but screw it I am asking anyway.

Considering WOXI suffered major structural failure causing them to withdraw from a qualifying race how are they then qualified for the S2H?

Having unethical and improper conduct by the national authority would be one way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2019 at 2:57 AM, Little Wood Boats said:

I am betting this is a dumb question but screw it I am asking anyway.

Considering WOXI suffered major structural failure causing them to withdraw from a qualifying race how are they then qualified for the S2H?

with approval, a qualifying passage of 150nm and 24hour can be used.  An unfinished cabbage does not count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Buy someone off at the national authority would be one way.

At the club level I could see it happening with everything said in the Australian Sailing thread.  Could it really happen in an event like the S2H?  After the AIS business from last year it does seem certain things can be overlooked.

23 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

with approval, a qualifying passage of 150nm and 24hour can be used.  An unfinished cabbage does not count.

How many races does WOXI do during the year?  If they had done a previous race or passage that qualifies would they still be qualified after the recent structural failure during a qualifying event?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Little Wood Boats said:

How many races does WOXI do during the year?  If they had done a previous race or passage that qualifies would they still be qualified after the recent structural failure during a qualifying event?

Completing one qualifying event qualifies a boat for the SH, even if the boat doesn't finish a subsequent qualifying event.  They aren't DISqualifying events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Assuming it comes with Hookers and Blow included ??

Richard chasing some cash..! $5k for a photo book no matter how it is bound is a serious amount of money. Would love to know how many he sells, would be a great coffee table book until somebody spills something on it.! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Little Wood Boats said:

At the club level I could see it happening with everything said in the Australian Sailing thread.  Could it really happen in an event like the S2H?  After the AIS business from last year it does seem certain things can be overlooked.

How many races does WOXI do during the year?  If they had done a previous race or passage that qualifies would they still be qualified after the recent structural failure during a qualifying event?

why focus on WOXI?

 

They've done a shedload more races than the 30% of 2019 Hobart Entrants who are in it for the 75th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Recidivist said:

Completing one qualifying event qualifies a boat for the SH, even if the boat doesn't finish a subsequent qualifying event.  They aren't DISqualifying events.

That is what I was wondering.  Thanks

26 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

why focus on WOXI?

 

They've done a shedload more races than the 30% of 2019 Hobart Entrants who are in it for the 75th.

My interest is in the qualification process and how breakage may effect an entry.  Only reason to focus on WOXI at the moment is due to the repairs being done. 

My question was wether or not they would have to do a qualifying event or passage to prove the repairs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Betting odds are out via TAB and Comanche will start favorite. This is because of the Wild Oats damage. Interesting. Black Jack at $4.00 might be worth a punt? 

https://www.tab.com.au/sports/betting/Yachting/competitions/Australian Yachting/tournaments/Sydney to Hobart

COMANCHE $2.65

WILD OATS XI $3.20 
  • BLACK JACK $4.00
  • SHK SCALLYWAG 100  $6.00
  • INFOTRACK $9.00

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Little Wood Boats said:

That is what I was wondering.  Thanks

My interest is in the qualification process and how breakage may effect an entry.  Only reason to focus on WOXI at the moment is due to the repairs being done. 

My question was wether or not they would have to do a qualifying event or passage to prove the repairs.

Qualification is a joke anyway, they (as well as any other boat in the fleet) can put 2 people on the boat, put the storm jib up and sail backwards & forwards between bird island & north head for 24hrs/150nm and be classed as having qualified for the S2H, the boat is what has to qualify, nothing regarding the crew.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Little Wood Boats said:

My question was wether or not they would have to do a qualifying event or passage to prove the repairs.

I’m sure the crew would WANT to do one... to prove the aforementioned repairs...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Qualification is a joke anyway, they (as well as any other boat in the fleet) can put 2 people on the boat, put the storm jib up and sail backwards & forwards between bird island & north head for 24hrs/150nm and be classed as having qualified for the S2H, the boat is what has to qualify, nothing regarding the crew.

and probably be in the lead for Olympic qualification in the new 2-hander class! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Qualification is a joke anyway, they (as well as any other boat in the fleet) can put 2 people on the boat, put the storm jib up and sail backwards & forwards between bird island & north head for 24hrs/150nm and be classed as having qualified for the S2H, the boat is what has to qualify, nothing regarding the crew.

Exactly. Just ass covering by CYCA - one of many

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jason AUS said:

I’m sure the crew would WANT to do one... to prove the aforementioned repairs...

for sure, there's no way that a rebuild like that on a supermaxi , with the crazy loads they have, would be 'tested' in the race and not before, all wharros aside

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, lydia said:

The judges will simply say that the words do not mean what they say and that you don't need to carry any water at all.

Get the wrong judges and you may be DSQ for having water on board. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well at least in Queensland, having no water on board does not stop you winning the race.

Those declarations don’t matter anyway, that is just shit you sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Checked said:

Get the wrong judges and you may be DSQ for having water on board. 

Moët, darling? Or Bolli?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Veuve thankyou

Call me old fashioned but I'm prepared to slum it with Mumm ...just to show support for the sponsor!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

Moët, darling? Or Bolli?

 

7 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Veuve thankyou

Pol Roger!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/26/2019 at 10:14 AM, duncan (the other one) said:

I interpret the complete opposite.

3.18.2 - At least 2.5 litres of fresh water per crew member per 100 nautical miles of the course to be sailed shall be carried at the start of the race...

Calling @LB 15 to the phone..can QLD special offshore racing rules apply here ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pretty strange all rebuild work committed before final report on failure completed.

I'm pretty sure Oats powers to be knew what the cause of failure was already. Reports take time something Oats doesn't have today. Perhaps had this happened a few months ago they would have waited for the report? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Infotrack out training. Video and pics on their fb page. Boat looks tired on deck. I hope they make it south. We have seen how quick that thing can go when sailed right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Nothing like a wet (yummy) mumm

 

On 11/27/2019 at 3:10 PM, duncan (the other one) said:

Nothing like a wet (yacky) Veuve...

FIFY.

220px-Veuve_clicquot.jpg.b0f0f21cbcf9abe9d8e7e93e49cc3c0a.jpgMadame Veuve (Widow) Clicquot

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sugarscoop said:

Infotrack out training. Video and pics on their fb page. Boat looks tired on deck. I hope they make it south. We have seen how quick that thing can go when sailed right. 

They will want windier conditions and with some angle to do well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Sorry is that Madame Lick her clit?

All I know is that it tastes rather delicious...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites