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Michael -- Tropical WX, Gulf Coast

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Finally let me post the oxbow.  Now I'm having a blast looking at old Pogo (Walt Kelly) stuff. Really a part of that local culture between Port St Joe and Appalachicola. 

Related image

 

   I never occured to me that Pogo and Walt were some of the first eco activists!

Image result for pogo cartoon character

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5 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

image.thumb.png.7e7752ecb7adfa39af4285933d51b329.png

Finally let me post the oxbow.  Now I'm having a blast looking at old Pogo (Walt Kelly) stuff. Really a part of that local culture between Port St Joe and Appalachicola. 

Related image

 

   I never occured to me that Pogo and Walt were some of the first eco activists!

Image result for pogo cartoon character

LOL...those folks are partying tonight and wondering what all the fuss was about

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I did a day cruise from the Cape San Blas Inn around to Indian Pass and then across the sound to Appalachicola for lunch and then up the river and taken the cut via the lake to the canal an White City to come out back in Pt St Joe. A long trip in an open 22' Caribiana skiff and we were glad to make it back to the guesthouse. That bridge at SR 71 has pretty good clearance if I remember and here is it in Google Earth/Street View.

29°52'50.37" N  85°13'19.59" W

image.thumb.png.c3804ca648700324a1432409ff67ab08.png

 

White City Bridge over Intracoastal Waterway - White City, Florida

 

    It was a lift bridge so must be at least 55 feet since being rebuilt, let me check.

Looks like 65' from this photo.

File:White City FL SR 71 ICW bridge south01.jpg

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31 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Yep...anywhere along that canal would be good and better than a marina...don't think a sailboat could get past SR 71.....you could even preset some screw in tie downs into the banks of the canal for future use

https://www.endurancehardware.com/earth-anchors-1/96-earth-anchor-w-10-helix-1-1-4-rod-hg-helix10-96

White City bridge is 65’. I’ve passed under it with my 61’ stick several times. I like cruising that area and am sad they’re getting so beat up. In fact I will probably be passing through before long (if I can).

Wimico is thin water except the channel. I’d go for an oxbow and spider into the trees. 

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12 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

LOL...those folks are partying tonight and wondering what all the fuss was about

Yeah, the swamp folk are either catfish bait right now or just waiting to go out to the coast and see what they can use from the wreckage. Here is to them!

I love the boats in this series.

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

 

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

 

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

 

Political too!

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

 

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

Image result for pogo walt kelly boat

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I was hitching from San Diego to Miami in 69 and went through Camille’s aftermath around dusk two weeks after it hit. I knew there had been a hurricane but had been away from TV and had no idea how bad it really was  . It was a surreal vision with debris piled high on both sides of the road eerily lit with kerosene lanterns and those roadside oil burning black ball things before Bobs Barricade flashing lights 

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I think Gissie lives in that area.... Hope she(he?) is OK.

 We got a nice breeze, and some steady rain. Still on alert for the stray tornadoes....

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19 minutes ago, vibroman said:

WC has the worst coverage....the women today was really irritating....I don't wish harm on anyone but standing in the weather adds NOTHING to the story..so when one of them gets injured or killed they better just keep their mouths shut

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10 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Smudge pots to light the roadside?

Better than cinder blocks with tea lights in them........

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OK. I doused my jib, doubled dock lines, lashed mainsail, got six bottles of Prosecco. I think I'm ready.

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My cousin is with my aunt in Lynn Haven. Part of her Facebook post:

Quote

Our neighborhood is decimated - our house is the only one on our block that still had a roof, there are no trees left standing, no fences upright - it’s like a war zone.

College Point area of Lynn Haven

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Heard from our friends. No injuries, knee-deep water, no power, water damage to house. Three trees smashed the neighbor's house. The wind was forcing water into the walls and it was coming out of outlets :o

This is a new house they moved into about 4 weeks ago!

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Heard from our friends. No injuries, knee-deep water, no power, water damage to house. Three trees smashed the neighbor's house. The wind was forcing water into the walls and it was coming out of outlets :o

This is a new house they moved into about 4 weeks ago!

Salt water does bad things the drywall, conduit, foundation, strappings.  It may now be a tear down.

 

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I went to check in on some friends and family on FB and found this:

HurricaneFBPanic.jpg

 

I like how the only available response is "Yes."

Indeed, I did have a nice sail yesterday afternoon, so I was affected. The trailing band is causing rain this morning. We will rebuild.

I wish I could show you the rest of this without compromising the privacy of others or lots of image editing. Yeah, I have 10 friends "in the area."

You can ask whether someone "in the area" is OK. The two people with the most numerous requests for that update live in...

drumroll please...

Gainseville and Punta Gorda.

The people actually in the affected area are OK. Their stuff and their world and their jobs, not so much.

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8 minutes ago, dacapo said:

They are. And this one illustrates why a hurricane prep list should begin with:

1. Chainsaws

2. Fuel

Even before water.

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F181010224018-22-hurricane-michael-1010.jpg

181010224018-22-hurricane-michael-1010.j

What if you need to go down that street? What if emergency vehicles need to go down it to get to your family?

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3 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

They are. And this one illustrates why a hurricane prep list should begin with:

1. Chainsaws

2. Fuel

Even before water.

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F181010224018-22-hurricane-michael-1010.jpg

181010224018-22-hurricane-michael-1010.j

What if you need to go down that street? What if emergency vehicles need to go down it to get to your family?

^^^

This. During Floyd we got trapped by falling trees that fell literally right in front of us while we were driving toward them :o Some neighbors with chain saws cleared the road by the next day :D

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9 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

They are. And this one illustrates why a hurricane prep list should begin with:

1. Chainsaws

2. Fuel

Even before water.

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F181010224018-22-hurricane-michael-1010.jpg

181010224018-22-hurricane-michael-1010.j

What if you need to go down that street? What if emergency vehicles need to go down it to get to your family?

total agreement. When NY had both Irene and Sandy, the boat's ditch bag (has a ton of useful items) , emergency blankets, 2 chainsaws, 15 gal of gas, 15 gal of diesel, the generator, 200w of solar panels, were loaded into a place we re at and had easy access to...Prior Proper Planning Prevent Piss Poor Performance

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Coneheads facebook page has some pictures of of some of the damage on Cape San Blas and Port St Joe.

Hope the Raw Bar survived.

 

 

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Good idea with the chainsaw. I barely made it through a maze of falling and fallen trees during Sandy and a tree fell on top of my minivan as I was doing about 50. I made it through with a smashed roof halfway back but I was going too fast for it to stop me. 

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12 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Good idea with the chainsaw. I barely made it through a maze of falling and fallen trees during Sandy and a tree fell on top of my minivan as I was doing about 50. I made it through with a smashed roof halfway back but I was going too fast for it to stop me. 

From my list of things I know, but should not, I'm afraid. And that's chainsaws. Plural. Getting parts involves getting unbelievably lucky, like having the parts truck pull up the abandoned wreckage of the lawnmower shop at the same time you do. That did happen to me, but it's better to just have multiple saws.

My whole area was pretty unnavigable after Andrew. My parents lived a bit north, where there were only a few downed branches and a few tiles flung from roofs. And one giant branch that crushed their gate. No way for a vehicle to get out until it was gone, along with some gate parts.

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Mexico Beach. Looks like storm surge erased all the older ranch houses off their slabs. The newer stuff on stilts fared a bit better. 

https://streamable.com/i2oq3 

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/i2oq3/rzankl" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

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Moon, 

    That pretty much says it all about what that kind of wind and water can do. Here is an equally sobering ground perspective of Mex Beach, or what's left of it.

    You see slab foundations with nothing left except maybe the bottom three courses of bricks or the 2x4 bottom plates of stud walls. Those things are Ramset into the concrete with dogballs caliber charges and about impossible to pry off.

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A couple of question regarding building codes.

What are the current specifications for withstanding hurricane force winds?

Do the codes take into account flying debris?

 

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2 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Codes?

 

They will now!

Rubio was being interviewed this morning on CNN and mentioned that Codes had been upgraded after Andrew (1992).  Not sure what if anything would have helped in Mexico Beach which is very reminiscent of Andrew and Homestead.  

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8 minutes ago, Para Handy said:

A couple of question regarding building codes.

What are the current specifications for withstanding hurricane force winds?

Do the codes take into account flying debris?

 

Generally 150 mph.

You can install wind-rated windows that are not impact-rated.

But FL still has lots of homes that were built before the code changes of the 1990s. Not as many as we did Tuesday, but lots of them.

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4 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Codes?

 

They will now!

No - the codes will end up being set to the convenience of the building industry.

In Gulf Shores the building codes just prior to hurricane Frederick required that a house be built 11.5 feet above sea level.  My parents house was under construction at the time and the storm surge flooded the garage but not the 6" higher house.   The local builders years  later lobbied and got the rule changed to lower the building height to 8.5 feet.   When Ivan hit in 2004 the garage got flooded again, but the house was untouched.   The neighboring houses built to the new standard had substantial flooding damage.

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50 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Mexico Beach. Looks like storm surge erased all the older ranch houses off their slabs. The newer stuff on stilts fared a bit better. 

https://streamable.com/i2oq3 

 

it looks like you can pretty much tell which buildings were built under code ( still standing) and everything else..   leveled.

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1 hour ago, dogballs Tom said:

From my list of things I know, but should not, I'm afraid. And that's chainsaws. Plural. Getting parts involves getting unbelievably lucky, like having the parts truck pull up the abandoned wreckage of the lawnmower shop at the same time you do. That did happen to me, but it's better to just have multiple saws.

My whole area was pretty unnavigable after Andrew. My parents lived a bit north, where there were only a few downed branches and a few tiles flung from roofs. And one giant branch that crushed their gate. No way for a vehicle to get out until it was gone, along with some gate parts.

Agreed. I have 3 saws and each has at least 3 chains standing by. I discovered after Isobel that having a saw is flood for a coup,e of trees. Having multiple chains keeps you cutting and they are quickly out of stock after a storm. I remember stopping by a hardware store on a business trip a week or so after Irene and buying a couple of dozen chains to put in my suitcase to take home for me and my neighbors. Now I keep multiple ones on hand as well as a good sharpening file. 

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Codes....can only go so far....the surge and pounding waves on top of the surge pushing tons of debris into structures are beyond practical engineering codes...shit happens

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1 minute ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Agreed. I have 3 saws and each has at least 3 chains standing by. I discovered after Isobel that having a saw is flood for a coup,e of trees. Having multiple chains keeps you cutting and they are quickly out of stock after a storm. I remember stopping by a hardware store on a business trip a week or so after Irene and buying a couple of dozen chains to put in my suitcase to take home for me and my neighbors. Now I keep multiple ones on hand as well as a good sharpening file. 

Those damn little priming bulbs. They crack. You're screwed without one. That's what the unbelievably lucky truck had for me.

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3 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

it looks like you can pretty much tell which buildings were built under code ( still standing) and everything else..   leveled.

And this is why this

10 minutes ago, slap said:

No - the codes will end up being set to the convenience of the building industry.

Isn't the whole story. The insurance industry talks to code writers about their losses too.

They also talk to customers. I recently learned about their "points" system for storm upgrades. You get some points for protecting windows, more for protecting garage doors, points for hip vs gable roof, all kinds of points. Some points cancel out other points.

Then there's the one they apparently feel makes the big difference: If you have a reinforced concrete roof, nothing else matters. You get the max allowable points, all others are cancelled out.

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1 hour ago, Para Handy said:

A couple of question regarding building codes.

What are the current specifications for withstanding hurricane force winds?

Do the codes take into account flying debris?

 

What you are seeing is mostly damage from flooding caused by the storm surge. The only way to beat that is to build on stilts. I used to hang around MB about 30 years ago before the new codes requiring stilts. Practically all the houses back then were little cheapie ranches on slabs. It doesn't appear many of those survived. Had it been a wind/rain event without the surge, you would have seen a number of places without roofs but a lot would still be there that aren't now. 

My neighbor just moved there last year to a three unit townhome on stilts about sixes rows house back from the beach. The aerial shots this morning revealed she's now beach front. There is not a single structure between her and the water any more, over a dozen houses just gone. 

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Slight thread drift...

Anyone ever spent time at the Bitter End Yacht Club resort in the BVI?  Did you trash your room on the way out?  No?   Don't worry, a lady called Irma did it for you last September.

And this was a well-built set of structures, nearly all well above storm surge line, and deeply pegged into the hillside.

As others have said, it's not how hard it blows, it's what it blows..

beyc_before.jpg

beyc_after.jpg

 

Back to Michael...

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13 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

What you are seeing is mostly damage from flooding caused by the storm surge. The only way to beat that is to build on stilts. I used to hang around MB about 30 years ago before the new codes requiring stilts. Practically all the houses back then were little cheapie ranches on slabs. It doesn't appear many of those survived. Had it been a wind/rain event without the surge, you would have seen a number of places without roofs but a lot would still be there that aren't now. 

My neighbor just moved there last year to a three unit townhome on stilts about sixes rows house back from the beach. The aerial shots this morning revealed she's now beach front. There is not a single structure between her and the water any more, over a dozen houses just gone. 

Even with the new structures that have blow away first floors that are used as garage/enclosed usable space are gone in MB...when the eye of a hurricane of that strength goes over an area all bets are off and there is no rhyme or reason why one structure stood and others just like are gone. In a way the old time vacation beach houses were simple and expendable ,over time beach houses became luxury homes...it'll be interesting to see how it is rebuilt...I suspect pretty much the same way and that is OK...

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Interesting feedback there re. codes. Makes you wonder if you should rebuild light and cheap, on the premise you can simply rebuild it come the next hurricane, or sturdy and expensive on the premise it might survive the next big blow. Tough call, but heartbreaking for those that have lost their homes.

A lot of the debris that ended up in the sea will wash up in front of my house in a few weeks and months!

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In the NBA and storm surge height is everything. Most new construction requires clips but if the water hits it it's gone.  Ike wiped out all the older houses in the Galveston Bay area in 2008.  In one section a guy had his house raised several feet and had zero damage while every other house was gone including the pilings.

I feel for those affected, what a mess and a tragedy when you lose everything

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

In the NBA and storm surge height is everything. Most new construction requires clips but if the water hits it it's gone.  Ike wiped out all the older houses in the Galveston Bay area in 2008.  In one section a guy had his house raised several feet and had zero damage while every other house was gone including the pilings.

I feel for those affected, what a mess and a tragedy when you lose everything

I've seen some stilts nothing more than cement blocks stacked on top of each other creating the "stilt"....some stupid scary shit...the stilt must be able to withstand the power of the surge and wave action along with whatever debris is carried along....not all stilts are created equal...no guarantees in and near the eye of a major hurricane

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Just now, SailBlueH2O said:

I've seen some stilts nothing more than cement blocks stacked on top of each other creating the "stilt"....some stupid scary shit...the stilt must be able to withstand the power of the surge and wave action along with whatever debris is carried along....not all stilts are created equal...no guarantees in and near the eye of a major hurricane

Around here they are pilings even if they are square and driven down to solid ground - the wind would take care of anything else. Even with massive pilings if the surge hits it, it's a goner.  Wind tears stuff up, water sends it back to the neighbors or beyond. What sucks is if your house is hit by a big pile of debris from those other houses.  Domino effect.

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40 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I've seen some stilts nothing more than cement blocks stacked on top of each other creating the "stilt"....some stupid scary shit...the stilt must be able to withstand the power of the surge and wave action along with whatever debris is carried along....not all stilts are created equal...no guarantees in and near the eye of a major hurricane

All the new beachfront construction I've seen in that area is steel reinforced poured concrete pilings. 

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Ugly.  Looks like parts of Japan after the tsunami.

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41 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

MB2.jpg

Screenshot (15).png

That is a pretty sobering sight. With the numbers that ignored the call to evacuate the death toll has to rise.

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Codes............... Florida................. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Sorry, been there done that built to my own code after the building officer told me that my plan (It could be drawn on the back of an envelope) had to be approved by a civil engineer.... I tried to ask him if he meant a structural engineer, but he cut me off before I could really say anything, and said "You Yankees come in here from Ohio, or where ever and think you know everything about building, but here, we have codes, and they need to be approved!" Click.

 So I called a civil engineer..... Actually, THE civil engineer that the building official told me to call. "Hold on, hold on! We don't do buildings! We reconstruct car accident scenes for law suits! You need a structural engineer."

 Which I already knew. So I figured I'd done my part, and called a civil engineer. Then I proceeded to build a structure that so far out matched current Florida building code for non inhabited structures that people began asking if I was planning on moving in......

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The toxic waste on the gulf shore, and just inland is going to be massive.

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12 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Codes............... Florida................. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Sorry, been there done that built to my own code after the building officer told me that my plan (It could be drawn on the back of an envelope) had to be approved by a civil engineer.... I tried to ask him if he meant a structural engineer, but he cut me off before I could really say anything, and said "You Yankees come in here from Ohio, or where ever and think you know everything about building, but here, we have codes, and they need to be approved!" Click.

 So I called a civil engineer..... Actually, THE civil engineer that the building official told me to call. "Hold on, hold on! We don't do buildings! We reconstruct car accident scenes for law suits! You need a structural engineer."

 Which I already knew. So I figured I'd done my part, and called a civil engineer. Then I proceeded to build a structure that so far out matched current Florida building code for non inhabited structures that people began asking if I was planning on moving in......

Noticing the sabal palms in the destruction photo...perhaps flexible stilts ;-)....another thing many many  homes were detached from the stilts. Years ago researching pole construction beach houses, I learned that the stilts/piles should go from buried deep in the sand continuously to the roof....

 

 

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    There was a pole built home on Culebra that had the poles going from well planted in the ground all the way up through three floors to the roof. I had looked at the USDA pole barn book a few years earlier and could see that had been the inspiration for this homes construction. It was on a steep hillside and was one of the few structures left standing after the onslaught of Hurricane Hugo. There were concrete and cinder block buildings nearby that had been blow flat by the CAT 5 winds but apparently the pole structure had enough give in the through bolted joints to bend rather than break. Sort of the Karate Kid philosophy but applied to buildings instead on mighty oaks and willow trees. Capt Fatty tells a great account of he and his wife getting blown ashore just below the big imposing pole house and they crawled up to the entry gate where he kept frantically ringing the DOORBELL and and crying for help until his wife said, 'Fuck this' and kicked the door in and they took refuge in the empty house. 

    Fatty and a couple dozen other fellow liveaboards marooned by Hugo took up residence and provided contact, food, booze, and fellowship for the rest of the Snot Club castaways for nearly a couple of months. They emptied all larders and freezers and pantries of the fully provisioned charter boats that were aground and even had the Navy making direct helo drops of food and supplies and fuel for the generators they had dragged up from the wreckage below and had a fully functioning community that got nicknamed 'FattyLand' if I remember correctly. Someone had brought up a working SSB/Ham set and they had rigged a functional antennae and had establised two way comms well before the other rescue outfits did. The parties were epic and Fatty had sailboats bringing in chainsaws, pumps and other much needed supplies (rum) from his homeboys back on St John.

    It was nearly three weeks before the owners of the property got down to check on their vacation home and they were shocked to see a nautical refugee commune set up when they got there. Fatty poured them some Pina Coladas and invited them in not knowing that they were the owners. A big pot luck meal was just being served and there was some guitar picking going on and the owners were so impressed that they have full permission to keep the effort going and all they asked was that they fix the gate that had gotten kicked down when they leave. There had been some damage to the roof but the sailors had gotten some of the first FEMA tarps and had secured them in seamanlike manner so it was a win/win situation in all respects. 

    When Culebra got rebuilt there were many new homes and building built using the example of the utility pole USDA method that allowed that house to persevere.

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4 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

     Fatty and a couple dozen other fellow liveaboards marooned by Hugo took up residence and provided contact, food, booze, and fellowship for the rest of the Snot Club castaways for nearly a couple of months. They emptied all larders and freezers and pantries of the fully provisioned charter boats that were aground and even had the Navy making direct helo drops of food and supplies and fuel for the generators they had dragged up from the wreckage below and had a fully functioning community that got nicknamed 'FattyLand' if I remember correctly. Someone had brought up a working SSB/Ham set and they had rigged a functional antennae and had establised two way comms well before the other rescue outfits did. The parties were epic and Fatty had sailboats bringing in chainsaws, pumps and other much needed supplies (rum) from his homeboys back on St John.

    It was nearly three weeks before the owners of the property got down to check on their vacation home and they were shocked to see a nautical refugee commune set up when they got there. Fatty poured them some Pina Coladas and invited them in not knowing that they were the owners. A big pot luck meal was just being served and there was some guitar picking going on and the owners were so impressed that they have full permission to keep the effort going and all they asked was that they fix the gate that had gotten kicked down when they leave. There had been some damage to the roof but the sailors had gotten some of the first FEMA tarps and had secured them in seamanlike manner so it was a win/win situation in all respects. 

    When Culebra got rebuilt there were many new homes and building built using the example of the utility pole USDA method that allowed that house to persevere.

I know where he got the idea:

IT HAPPENED ON FIFTH AVENUE (1947)

Each Christmas, an industrial tycoon and his family travel from New York City to Florida to spend the holiday season in the sun, and while they are gone, a philosophical homeless man takes up residence in the millionaire's Fifth Avenue mansion.

Letting himself in through a hole in the fence, he puts on designer clothes, smokes expensive cigars, eats gourmet food, and opens up the townhouse to his homeless friends so that they, too, can share in the holiday spirit.

When the real homeowner's daughter returns to NYC early and discovers the house has been taken over, the homeless haven is in danger of disappearing forever. However, the warm-hearted nature of the homeless intruders reinvigorates the unhappy wealthy family, and everyone succumbs to the true spirit of Christmas.

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57 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

There had been some damage to the roof but the sailors had gotten some of the first FEMA tarps and had secured them in seamanlike manner so it was a win/win situation in all respects. 

In my old neighborhood, quite a bit of the damage "from hurricane Andrew" (as far as insurance adjusters were told) actually happened two days after the storm.

Andrew was a very dry storm and although it stripped the shingles and tarpaper off my roof, it didn't get all that much water inside. The next day, we managed to get actual roofers to put new tarpaper because they were working on my roomate's dad's kidney center. When an afternoon storm dropped a couple of inches two days after Andrew, many ceilings fell. Mine didn't.

Now I have a shipping container full of tarps and furring strips. And chainsaws and fuel. And some other stuff...

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We dodged Florence, and we seem to have dodged Michael, although we lost power for about 2 hours. Lots of crap in the yard to pick up, but no real problems. 

Today is my wife's birthday, and all of our children and grandchildren are in town to celebrate.

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Sad how many houses and businesses have been destroyed during Micheal. But looking at those pictures and videos i still can't wrap my head around the building materials that remain as trash. The bricks i saw of destroyed properties in the videos are no more than ornament quality and it looks like most of those kind of wooden structures simple have no place in regions were those kind of nature disasters occur frequently. We have saying here: Build cheap, build twice. So i guess fitting homes in region like these need to be build more robust. Granted, they most likely would be more expensive and not everybody would be able to afford their own house.

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they had a Florida official on the Weather Channel today.  He said FLA code is only good to cat 4.  Michael missed being a 5 by 2 mph.  Just bad luck.

And I am sure many of you saw the train the was blown over, along with the bent pivot pins when car was torn off the cart.  Serious wind..

Having said that, I remember reading in the WSJ about inspectors checking new construction after the code changes brought on my Andrews and finding many builders were cutting LOTS of corners.  Never heard a follow up on what happened.   i think whatever is allowed to be rebuilt will have an evil eye cast upon it by the insurance companies more than anyone else.

Remanents of Michael are passing through SE VA right now.  Heavy rains and tornadoes are flying about just a couple miles to the west and south of the homestead.  When Michael hits the bay it is supposed to re intensify and give us a good blow tonight

Both Stihl chainsaws are sharpened and ready to go in the garage, along with a fresh gas can of premix with no corn squeezings, spare chains, bars and one of these bad boys..  https://www.timberlinesharpener.com/

 

 

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Friends reported the husband was sinking in quicksand and rescued by a neighbor. They have no water to shower off the quicksand residue and can't leave because every road is blocked.
Meanwhile the hurricane made it to Kent Island, thunder and lightning and pouring rain right now. Not much wind though.

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This is Eagle Pass on St. Joseph Peninsula. You won't find it on any chart, because it used to be called Eagle Harbor. The road that was where the breakers are now leads to St. Joseph State Park, which is now completely cut off.  One of the two camping loops appears to be mostly buried by the dunes that moved back. It's going to be a long time before what was one of the crown jewels of the FL park system comes back, if ever. 43728854_2164100493622416_11022104563757

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11 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Friends reported the husband was sinking in quicksand and rescued by a neighbor. They have no water to shower off the quicksand residue and can't leave because every road is blocked.
Meanwhile the hurricane made it to Kent Island, thunder and lightning and pouring rain right now. Not much wind though.

Enough wind over in St Mary's to take down some trees.  With the soft ground, I have a 24-28" diameter oak on the ground as well as the expected branches and leaf debris.  Someone had a bad night.  a Bennie 40'er cam careening up the creek around 2300, navigating by floodlight (to be fair, no marked channel and it was pretty damn dark).  Ended up anchored off my dock and looks peaceful this AM but suspect they had an uncomfortable night, even in the sheltered creek.   

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9 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

This is Eagle Pass on St. Joseph Peninsula. You won't find it on any chart, because it used to be called Eagle Harbor. The road that was where the breakers are now leads to St. Joseph State Park, which is now completely cut off.  One of the two camping loops appears to be mostly buried by the dunes that moved back. It's going to be a long time before what was one of the crown jewels of the FL park system comes back, if ever. 43728854_2164100493622416_11022104563757

It'll be interesting to see if they leave it as is now....dredge it further open or try and close it....as is would help down the road keep the bay healthy as it increases the tidal flush...I was very surprised to discover the old anchorage had 20' deep water

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Wind is up now, we had the rain first. Furniture got blown over on my deck. Virginia had 5 killed! Yikes!

We peaked at 52 knots last night just before midnight.  Some breeze this morning but more post frontal with clear skies than anything else.  

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Just to re-iterate the power of this sort of storm. 

Image may contain: grass, sky, tree, outdoor and nature

 

Not during Michael but still applicable. Jim Cantore take note.

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3 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Just to re-iterate the power of this sort of storm. 

Image may contain: grass, sky, tree, outdoor and nature

 

Not during Michael but still applicable. Jim Cantore take note.

I was in Fiji in the 80s sheltering in the vault of the bank as the town came apart above us.  When we got back to the remains of our 2nd floor hotel room we found a small cow had come through the windows and exploded against the end wall.  5 palm tree trunks were stuck through that concrete wall like javelins.

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5 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Just to re-iterate the power of this sort of storm. 

Image may contain: grass, sky, tree, outdoor and nature

 

Not during Michael but still applicable. Jim Cantore take note.

"Impact rated" windows are not rated for that.

Nor for any of the much bigger things that fly around in hurricanes. Like a 20' x 20' flat roof section that was draped over my neighbor's carport (except the pieces that landed in my bedroom). Or an oak about 30' high that somehow landed between my neighbors' homes without hitting anything. We looked for where those things came from and never did figure it out.

I stupidly stuck my head out a broken window and looked into hurricane Andrew. It was a hail of tiny particles, mostly pieces of leaves. Then a not-so-tiny particle broke the next pane over and I realized how stupid I was being. I got hit in the face with leaf bits but it could have been a 30' tree.

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The morning after Hurricane Hugo in Culebra, I saw something bright orange way up on one of the hillsides, maybe 400 feet ASL. Got my binocs out and could see that it was an Avon Rescue RIP with a 75HP motor still attached. Locals told stories of seeing cattle and horses flying through the air at the height of the storm. My 46' trimaran got airborne repeatedly shortly after the eye passed over and the eyewall struck with its full fury. Mine was the only multihull out of about 19 anchored out in the Bahia Honda that was still right side up the next morning.

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5 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

The morning after Hurricane Hugo in Culebra, I saw something bright orange way up on one of the hillsides, maybe 400 feet ASL. Got my binocs out and could see that it was an Avon Rescue RIP with a 75HP motor still attached. Locals told stories of seeing cattle and horses flying through the air at the height of the storm. My 46' trimaran got airborne repeatedly shortly after the eye passed over and the eyewall struck with its full fury. Mine was the only multihull out of about 19 anchored out in the Bahia Honda that was still right side up the next morning.

Why was yours the only one to stay upright? Was it something about how you prepared or where you chose to be?

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Good question KC,

     I took very careful precautions but wasn't able to get as far into one of the tight little mangrove creeks as I would have wished having arrived late from St. John.

     I agonized as to where to stake my claim before starting setting what I think were 10 anchors as well as lines going ashore to the mangroves. Bigger concern was who your neighbors are and how well their tackle and preps have been. Then once you start getting gear down you have to defend your claimed turf from even bigger latecomer assholes who want to start laying down their gear on top of yours and leaving little swinging room. My approach was to lay my anchors out in a manner that I could swing 360 degrees with the wind but close enough to a good mangrove bank with big trunks to tie in additional lines to those trees well protected by some roofer climbing harness belts that I happened to have for just that purpose. I hate seeing boaters ties nylon line directly to big (or small) mangroves especially with half hitches which will choke up tight and bark a tree killing it. My harnesses do no damage in that manner to the tree and I have fewer qualms about using the mangroves for added security. My biggest anchor was a 150 lb Danforth Hi-Tensile that I had out to the south as I was tied up to the mangroves on the north side of the bahia and the biggest anchor was aligned with the longest fetch. 

    I spent a whole day and worked my ass off and I was pretty happy until a big Florida Coaster style steel triple decker with more windage than you could imagine came in and setup shop just to the East of me. They dropped a big anchor on all chain on a windlass using only the push buttons on the enclosed pilothouse where they could easily ignore my plea to not crowd me so. Pleas turned to cussing but they pulled back out and set a second hook as well with no more than the push of another windlass button and then ran two lines ashore to the mangroves in about 5 minutes and retreated to their airconditioned lounge behind blackout glass with the genset sending fumes my way. It was too late for me to even consider a move and I just had to let it go and continue with my chafe strategy on my boat. After dark the wind started increasing and by midnight we had over 100 knots from the North but the dense mangroves deflected most of that right over the top of my boat. I could tell by the way my mast was shuddering and shrouds vibrating it was getting serious but I felt well protected at that time. The upper deck of the big steel stinkpot was catching the full brunt of the wind and the cute striped canvas work around the railings and bimini tops on the FB just blew to hell. They had backed into the mangroves and it wasn't long until they ripped out the two big mangroves that they had tied off to. The boat surprisingly reset its anchors as it blew out of the mangroves probably due to 300 feet of all chain on both hooks.

    I have to go watch the second half of Ga-LSU game but will come back for the next chapter after that!

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4 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Good question KC,

     I took very careful precautions but wasn't able to get as far into one of the tight little mangrove creeks as I would have wished having arrived late from St. John.

     I agonized as to where to stake my claim before starting setting what I think were 10 anchors as well as lines going ashore to the mangroves. Bigger concern was who your neighbors are and how well their tackle and preps have been. Then once you start getting gear down you have to defend your claimed turf from even bigger latecomer assholes who want to start laying down their gear on top of yours and leaving little swinging room. My approach was to lay my anchors out in a manner that I could swing 360 degrees with the wind but close enough to a good mangrove bank with big trunks to tie in additional lines to those trees well protected by some roofer climbing harness belts that I happened to have for just that purpose. I hate seeing boaters ties nylon line directly to big (or small) mangroves especially with half hitches which will choke up tight and bark a tree killing it. My harnesses do no damage in that manner to the tree and I have fewer qualms about using the mangroves for added security. My biggest anchor was a 150 lb Danforth Hi-Tensile that I had out to the south as I was tied up to the mangroves on the north side of the bahia and the biggest anchor was aligned with the longest fetch. 

    I spent a whole day and worked my ass off and I was pretty happy until a big Florida Coaster style steel triple decker with more windage than you could imagine came in and setup shop just to the East of me. They dropped a big anchor on all chain on a windlass using only the push buttons on the enclosed pilothouse where they could easily ignore my plea to not crowd me so. Pleas turned to cussing but they pulled back out and set a second hook as well with no more than the push of another windlass button and then ran two lines ashore to the mangroves in about 5 minutes and retreated to their airconditioned lounge behind blackout glass with the genset sending fumes my way. It was too late for me to even consider a move and I just had to let it go and continue with my chafe strategy on my boat. After dark the wind started increasing and by midnight we had over 100 knots from the North but the dense mangroves deflected most of that right over the top of my boat. I could tell by the way my mast was shuddering and shrouds vibrating it was getting serious but I felt well protected at that time. The upper deck of the big steel stinkpot was catching the full brunt of the wind and the cute striped canvas work around the railings and bimini tops on the FB just blew to hell. They had backed into the mangroves and it wasn't long until they ripped out the two big mangroves that they had tied off to. The boat surprisingly reset its anchors as it blew out of the mangroves probably due to 300 feet of all chain on both hooks.

    I have to go watch the second half of Ga-LSU game but will come back for the next chapter after that!

How about a Google Earth screen shot of your location....can't wait for the rest of the story

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47 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

How about a Google Earth screen shot of your location....can't wait for the rest of the story

Sail,

     I'm talking about ancient history here during Hugo in Culebra not Michael in the Panhandle. Guess you know that though and it is 3rd qtr break, let me find the spot in Bahia Honda Culebra just for context.

 

This should work for now

image.thumb.png.54df3e58bdc7f9746db5f003cf997cd3.png

 

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Recent history shows that during hurricane Irma a significant number of catamarans were seen to get airborne. This was not storm surge but large boats being totally out of the water probably due to the bridge deck acting as a wing.. 

 

irma 4.jpg

irma 5.jpg

irma 7.jpg

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57 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Sail,

     I'm talking about ancient history here during Hugo in Culebra not Michael in the Panhandle. Guess you know that though and it is 3rd qtr break, let me find the spot in Bahia Honda Culebra just for context.

 

This should work for now

image.thumb.png.54df3e58bdc7f9746db5f003cf997cd3.png

 

Nice spot...yeah I knew you were talking Hugeaux....shift to LSU I remember them coming into the Orange Bowl to play Miami mid 60's and the had a Bengal Tiger in a circus cage wagon ...good game upsetting #2 Dawgs

 

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21 minutes ago, TQA said:

Recent history shows that during hurricane Irma a significant number of catamarans were seen to get airborne. This was not storm surge but large boats being totally out of the water probably due to the bridge deck acting as a wing.. 

 

irma 4.jpg

irma 5.jpg

irma 7.jpg

There was a hurricane about 20 years ago that hit Belize and a large dive cat full of divers in a marina riding out the storm that flipped and drowned something like 20 customers trapped inside...found a link

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/us/hurricane-kills-virginia-dive-club-members-in-belize.html

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Yeah, I got too involved with the back story of my experience in Culebra during Hugo but the short story was all about the bridge deck area which can (and will) flip multihulls like they were toys. My trimaran was a Norm Cross 42R design to which I had added a 4 foot sugarscoop transom/stern extension long before those became de rigueur. Norm had a long career as an aeronautical designer with one of the big companies in San Diego and that sort of bled over into his trimaran designs. On the race series that my boat was an example, he had recognized the hazard that existed when too much air, wave and spray got compressed between the hulls and had designed vents into the side decks to alleviate that tendency. In addition, he turned the cross section of his forward and aft crossbeams upside down and put the flats on deck and the cambered surfaces facing downward which was counter to the practice at the time. His theory that the beams would create downforce with the airfoil shape in that configuration and high winds would make the boat stay stably on the surface of the water. My boat was probably the only one that was ever put to that test during Hugo and I can attest that when the gusts would pick up the bows you could look out the side windows in the deckhouse and see the airflow (as marked by the dense spray and spume) exiting out the slots in the side decks between the main beam and the aft beam. 

    I went on deck as the eye of Hugo went overhead just after dawn to clear away some of the fouling of my rodes with mangroves torn out of the shore by the pre eye winds and when the wind shifted so suddenly I found myself trapped on deck as the winds shifted abruptly to the south. The onset of the other side of the storm winds was so sudden and fierce it was shocking and I sort of rode the next 20 minutes or so like a cowboy on a bucking bronco with the bows lifting to maybe 20 degrees from level with only the transoms of the boat still in the water when the upside foils of the beams would stall and the whole boat would come slamming back down onto the water surface. This happened repeatedly and I witnessed other multihull designs reach the same bow up angles upon which they would just go airborne completely and then land on their backs upside down. When communications were restored to Culebra, I called the phone number in San Diego that was listed on the Cross Trimaran ad in the back of Multihulls Mag to express my gratitude and validation to Norm's theories and design. I was shocked to get his widow on the phone who told me that he had just recently passed and that he must have been witness to my travails and final triumph during the storm. Norm had been somewhat ridiculed among the multihull world for his conflation of aero and hydro dynamic theory and I was never really convinced that his keel design derived from a F-104 was quite right but I'll argue on his behalf about his ground effect theory and the configuration of his crossbeams. I probably wouldn't be telling this story if he had been wrong that dreadful night.

    Jack Petith, who rode out Hugo in Culebra on his Newick design, wrote an excellent account of the Hugo disaster in his book, 'The Night the Boats Flew'. There were similar results in Salt RIver on St Croix to what I went though in Culebra.

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11 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Yeah, I got too involved with the back story of my experience in Culebra during Hugo but the short story was all about the bridge deck area which can (and will) flip multihulls like they were toys. My trimaran was a Norm Cross 42R design to which I had added a 4 foot sugarscoop transom/stern extension long before those became de rigueur. Norm had a long career as an aeronautical designer with one of the big companies in San Diego and that sort of bled over into his trimaran designs. On the race series that my boat was an example, he had recognized the hazard that existed when too much air, wave and spray got compressed between the hulls and had designed vents into the side decks to alleviate that tendency. In addition, he turned the cross section of his forward and aft crossbeams upside down and put the flats on deck and the cambered surfaces facing downward which was counter to the practice at the time. His theory that the beams would create downforce with the airfoil shape in that configuration and high winds would make the boat stay stably on the surface of the water. My boat was probably the only one that was ever put to that test during Hugo and I can attest that when the gusts would pick up the bows you could look out the side windows in the deckhouse and see the airflow (as marked by the dense spray and spume) exiting out the slots in the side decks between the main beam and the aft beam. 

    I went on deck as the eye of Hugo went overhead just after dawn to clear away some of the fouling of my rodes with mangroves torn out of the shore by the pre eye winds and when the wind shifted so suddenly I found myself trapped on deck as the winds shifted abruptly to the south. The onset of the other side of the storm winds was so sudden and fierce it was shocking and I sort of rode the next 20 minutes or so like a cowboy on a bucking bronco with the bows lifting to maybe 20 degrees from level with only the transoms of the boat still in the water when the upside foils of the beams would stall and the whole boat would come slamming back down onto the water surface. This happened repeatedly and I witnessed other multihull designs reach the same bow up angles upon which they would just go airborne completely and then land on their backs upside down. When communications were restored to Culebra, I called the phone number in San Diego that was listed on the Cross Trimaran ad in the back of Multihulls Mag to express my gratitude and validation to Norm's theories and design. I was shocked to get his widow on the phone who told me that he had just recently passed and that he must have been witness to my travails and final triumph during the storm. Norm had been somewhat ridiculed among the multihull world for his conflation of aero and hydro dynamic theory and I was never really convinced that his keel design derived from a F-104 was quite right but I'll argue on his behalf about his ground effect theory and the configuration of his crossbeams. I probably wouldn't be telling this story if he had been wrong that dreadful night.

    Jack Petith, who rode out Hugo in Culebra on his Newick design, wrote an excellent account of the Hugo disaster in his book, 'The Night the Boats Flew'. There were similar results in Salt RIver on St Croix to what I went though in Culebra.

Why am I thinking NASCAR roof flaps?

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I just got an email from an old sailing buddy in Puerto Rico.  His house near San Juan was demolished last year by Maria.  His wife and two teenagers moved to Florida, and he stayed behind as he works as a senior lineman for the power company.  He was planning to get a similar job in Florida at the end of this year.

All they could afford in the USA was a small house near the beach, in you guessed it, Mexico City FL.  The family is safe.  They evacuated in time and are staying with a friend in Galveston TX.  But the house is gone. 

Twice in a year.  At least the FL home was insured, not sure about the PR one.

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