Grrr...

How to Tell a Lie

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If there's one thing that Trump has taught the media and the American people, it's how to tell a lie. How does he do it?

https://medium.com/s/story/how-trump-gets-away-with-lying-as-explained-by-a-magician-4a14570fe6b0

I found that interesting reading.  Most of it was pretty intuitive, but like any good magician they make it un-obvious.  Here's a good recent example of how to pull off the "lie in plain sight".  This article is from Fox News.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/marc-thiessen-trump-could-be-the-most-honest-president-in-modern-history

1.  Start by saying he lies.  You can call this the "We're on your side" portion of the article.

2. Immediately contradict yourself and claim he only lies about certain things.  Immediately transition to "He actually tells the truth"  Call this the redirection or the "look over there" moment.

3. Provide examples.  This is more distraction from the truth - someone who lies is dishonest.  You don't get to lie and claim to be telling the truth.  While claiming he KEEPS his promises, it's pretty easy to do a little research and find out he doesn't nearly as much as he'd want you to believe.  If you don't like links, then just ask yourself where that Mexican funded wall is.  But since the sycophants will quickly come out of the woodwork about how that's just one example and I'm a liar.... I'll just drop this too:   https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-promise-tracker/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f1cd0537b01f 

4.  Next, they say it's ok if you disagree.  But if you DO disagree, then what you think isn't important.  They actually say that.  Because he is "paragon of honesty" who "takes liberties with the truth".  Yes, they make both claims.  Amazing huh?  But it gets better.  "He lies less than that evil democrat that used to be here, because.... healthcare."  They try to do exactly what our right-leaning posters would have accused me of doing in #3 before the link.  To be clear, one event does not define someone, even if Trump likes to routinely use that philosophy to talk himself up.

I'd like to bow to our truthy overlords.  It's clearly the best truth.  Just the best.  Because..... Obama.  But if you've made it all the way through, I'll just point out how intelligent Fox can be about lying.  How many people actually noticed the little tag hidden between the REALLY BIG TITLE and the REALLY BIG PICTURE that says OPINION.  It's the final misdirection.  The final "look over there" distraction.

What a performance that deserves a standing ovation and a demand for an encore.

 

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Media.jpg

It's this way across industries. From automaking, to soft drinks to agricultural distribution, to pharmaceuticals to cellular telephones to gasoline refining, reinsurance and banking ... the vast majority of many key industries are controlled by a handful of corporations.

Anyone who complains about the limitations of media should also complain about all the other monopolistic crap, right?

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48 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It's this way across industries. From automaking, to soft drinks to agricultural distribution, to pharmaceuticals to cellular telephones to gasoline refining, reinsurance and banking ... the vast majority of many key industries are controlled by a handful of corporations.

Anyone who complains about the limitations of media should also complain about all the other monopolistic crap, right?

First, it's not monopolistic.  Second, it's the natural movement of ALL sectors of the economy as they change into commodities.  Large players buy out the small to become huge.  Lastly, we have exactly as many automakers as we need to supply the choice that consumers want.  When there's a hole, someone like Tesla can step up to fill the gap and 'disrupt' the industry.

The obvious problem with the media conglomerates is the sheer level of control they can have over social beliefs and our society.  News reporting shouldn't be a 'product', because when it becomes increasingly profit oriented then by simple logic it becomes decreasingly factual.

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Excellent analysis, Grrr.

 

The demagoguery continues, it's the Trump way.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/10/donald-trump-democrats-open-borders-medicare-all-single-payer-column/1560533002/

"The new Democrats are radical socialists who want to model America’s economy after Venezuela."

 

 

Donald Trump: Democrats 'Medicare for All' plan will demolish promises to seniors

Donald J. Trump, Opinion contributor Published 3:15 a.m. ET Oct. 10, 2018 | Updated 7:16 p.m. ET Oct. 11, 2018
     

The Democrats want to outlaw private health care plans, taking away freedom to choose plans while letting anyone cross our border. We must win this.

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1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

First, it's not monopolistic.  Second, it's the natural movement of ALL sectors of the economy as they change into commodities.  Large players buy out the small to become huge.  Lastly, we have exactly as many automakers as we need to supply the choice that consumers want.  When there's a hole, someone like Tesla can step up to fill the gap and 'disrupt' the industry.

The obvious problem with the media conglomerates is the sheer level of control they can have over social beliefs and our society.  News reporting shouldn't be a 'product', because when it becomes increasingly profit oriented then by simple logic it becomes decreasingly factual.

Any "control" that media has over our opinions has been granted to them by us. I used to be a newspaper reporter, if I had control over someone's opinion, then that person was either woefully undereducated or they had no desire to form their own opinions.

Right now, you and I are forming opinions outside of that media monster. Just because we're part of the 10% doesn't diminish our impact and our reach. So what if 90% of the media is corporate?

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You essentially just asked why it's not OK for just a couple corporate conglomerates to shape the world view of our population, half of which has below average intelligence (snicker).  Think about that.  Do you really promote the concept of the book 1984?

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3 hours ago, Grrr... said:

First, it's not monopolistic.  Second, it's the natural movement of ALL sectors of the economy as they change into commodities.  Large players buy out the small to become huge.  Lastly, we have exactly as many automakers as we need to supply the choice that consumers want.  When there's a hole, someone like Tesla can step up to fill the gap and 'disrupt' the industry.

The obvious problem with the media conglomerates is the sheer level of control they can have over social beliefs and our society.  News reporting shouldn't be a 'product', because when it becomes increasingly profit oriented then by simple logic it becomes decreasingly factual.

Excellent point! It should be obvious that the media is highly consolidated at the moment. The question is whether we're getting the news or somebody's narrative. Is there an obvious narrative? If so, who does it benefit? One should also ask who owns which media companies, and who owns the people who own media companies?

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On 10/12/2018 at 8:29 AM, Grrr... said:

If there's one thing that Trump has taught the media and the American people, it's how to tell a lie. How does he do it?

https://medium.com/s/story/how-trump-gets-away-with-lying-as-explained-by-a-magician-4a14570fe6b0

I found that interesting reading.  Most of it was pretty intuitive, but like any good magician they make it un-obvious.  Here's a good recent example of how to pull off the "lie in plain sight".  This article is from Fox News.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/marc-thiessen-trump-could-be-the-most-honest-president-in-modern-history

1.  Start by saying he lies.  You can call this the "We're on your side" portion of the article.

2. Immediately contradict yourself and claim he only lies about certain things.  Immediately transition to "He actually tells the truth"  Call this the redirection or the "look over there" moment.

3. Provide examples.  This is more distraction from the truth - someone who lies is dishonest.  You don't get to lie and claim to be telling the truth.  While claiming he KEEPS his promises, it's pretty easy to do a little research and find out he doesn't nearly as much as he'd want you to believe.  If you don't like links, then just ask yourself where that Mexican funded wall is.  But since the sycophants will quickly come out of the woodwork about how that's just one example and I'm a liar.... I'll just drop this too:   https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-promise-tracker/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f1cd0537b01f 

4.  Next, they say it's ok if you disagree.  But if you DO disagree, then what you think isn't important.  They actually say that.  Because he is "paragon of honesty" who "takes liberties with the truth".  Yes, they make both claims.  Amazing huh?  But it gets better.  "He lies less than that evil democrat that used to be here, because.... healthcare."  They try to do exactly what our right-leaning posters would have accused me of doing in #3 before the link.  To be clear, one event does not define someone, even if Trump likes to routinely use that philosophy to talk himself up.

I'd like to bow to our truthy overlords.  It's clearly the best truth.  Just the best.  Because..... Obama.  But if you've made it all the way through, I'll just point out how intelligent Fox can be about lying.  How many people actually noticed the little tag hidden between the REALLY BIG TITLE and the REALLY BIG PICTURE that says OPINION.  It's the final misdirection.  The final "look over there" distraction.

What a performance that deserves a standing ovation and a demand for an encore.

 

Because they are not lying they are just conversational exclamation points. We all use them, the sweeping generalizations, rhetorical exaggerations, semantic deflections and the talking points we don't challenge. 

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On 10/12/2018 at 6:38 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

Media.jpg

Ever heard of the BBC or the CBC?

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There are 3 rules to lying effectively.

 #1 Have a very good memory.

 #2 Know the facts.

 #3 ..... Ummmm..... There's a 3rd rule.....

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@JohnFugelsang 
Oct 12 

Trump boasting that he "got Obama to show the birth certificate" makes him the 1st man in history to brag that somebody proved he's a liar. 

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1 hour ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Because they are not lying they are just conversational exclamation points. We all use them, the sweeping generalizations, rhetorical exaggerations, semantic deflections and the talking points we don't challenge. 

It is far more accurate to call you and Dog bullshitters than exclamatory conversationalists, but your admission about straying from the truth is noted. 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Steve Schmidt has a pretty eloquent opinion on the topic at hand. 

 

A7E8522C-3155-4B51-8324-D51BFD9FB947.jpeg

One crafty part of Trump's method, that Schmidt doesn't mention, is how Trump supporters are offered a factually unrelated reason to support a policy. For example, in Trump's OPED posted earlier in this thread, he combines health care policy with immigration anxiety so that people who might see the logic of expanding medicare in a public option are fed the lie that even if medicare expansion is a good idea, illegal immigrants will use it and bankrupt the country. Of course it's playing on xenophobia and it's completely illogical, but it's sadly effective. It keeps the policy debate from happening in the minds of many. 

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2 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Because they are not lying they are just conversational exclamation points. We all use them, the sweeping generalizations, rhetorical exaggerations, semantic deflections and the talking points we don't challenge. 

So you are now justifying the President outright lying to us, by calling it something else. Amazing.  Where was this logic back when we had a black guy in office?  

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4 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

There are 3 rules to lying effectively.

one ...... keep it small and as close to the truth as possible .

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2 hours ago, benwynn said:

So you are now justifying the President outright lying to us, by calling it something else. Amazing.  Where was this logic back when we had a black guy in office?  

Obama wasn't a galactically psychopathic liar, just a regular type politician liar

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I tend to call it "enhancing the truth", when I do it in writing.... "Embellishing" leads one to think of adding trinkets, and glitter.... I just make the truth bigger, and more interesting than it used to be....

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8 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Because they are not lying they are just conversational exclamation points. We all use them, the sweeping generalizations, rhetorical exaggerations, semantic deflections and the talking points we don't challenge. 

Is this what you think of yourself?  Is this how you justify acting the way you do?  You tell yourself everyone lies, exaggerates, and word smith's so it's OK if you do?

Just.... Wow.  You make so much more sense now. 

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There have been 2 or 3 PBS Frontline programs on Trump.  I remember one segment that I found fascinating. Trump and his attorney were walking out of a courthouse after losing a racial discrimination case.  He basically told the reporters in the street that they won. That they were very happy with the outcome. 

He just barks out shit that is flat out bullshit.  He still does it in the present day.  But if it sounds good, his supporters are okay with it.  Check out Malarkey's justifications right here on the forum.  It's fucking weird and very unsettling. I thought the delegitimization of the mainstream media was a big problem, as they are the watchdogs of government.  But it's deeper than this. If the mainstream media reports that the President is lying, even if his supporters believe the media, it's irrelevant.  What he saying "sounds good'.

If this sets a precedent, this is some pretty serious shit.

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The egg is scrambled, sorry guys.

Exact numbers aside, it's fucking impossible for a country to function normally when over a third of the country admits to supporting Trump and another 20 percent do but won't admit it on the street.  What is it in the Constitution about the People protecting themselves from the government?

Puts an entirely different perspective on the supposed Russian control of Trump doesn't it?  Like the deliberate dismantling of a Democracy, as the US dismantled the USSR.

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On 10/13/2018 at 12:38 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

Media.jpg

Then I suggest you start using the others.:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:
On 10/12/2018 at 6:38 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

Media.jpg

Then I suggest you start using the others.:rolleyes:

Others? What a radical concept.

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On 10/12/2018 at 6:38 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

Media.jpg

It’s called coercion 

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11 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Because they are not lying they are just conversational exclamation points. We all use them, the sweeping generalizations, rhetorical exaggerations, semantic deflections and the talking points we don't challenge. 

linky

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4 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Is this what you think of yourself?  Is this how you justify acting the way you do?  You tell yourself everyone lies, exaggerates, and word smith's so it's OK if you do?

Just.... Wow.  You make so much more sense now. 

I left out Messenger attacks. 

So Grrr is 100% innocent of the excesses I listed? 

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6 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I left out Messenger attacks. 

So Grrr is 100% innocent of the excesses I listed? 

How the fuck can you look yourself in the mirror Jack.  You lie to yourself, you lie to us.

How the fuck can anyone live like that?

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3 hours ago, random said:
3 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I left out Messenger attacks. 

So Grrr is 100% innocent of the excesses I listed? 

How the fuck can you look yourself in the mirror Jack.  You lie to yourself, you lie to us.

How the fuck can anyone live like that?

Strange rationalization for the guy who called me a liar because I was mistaken about mentioning his son. I thought I hadn’t, he showed me I was wrong, I apologized. 

This fuck-knuckle continues to call me a liar for that. 

And he has the balls to whitewash the pathological liar in the WH as just prone to “sweeping generalizations, rhetorical exaggeration, (and) semantic deflections”.

A-fucking-mazing.  

He really is damaged. 

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46 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Yep. But folks keep biting.

It's the same modus operandi for Trump, Malarkey & Dog, etc. etc. If you don't get a response, dial up the bullshit and troll the libs until you do.

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23 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Is this what you think of yourself?  Is this how you justify acting the way you do?  You tell yourself everyone lies, exaggerates, and word smith's so it's OK if you do?

Just.... Wow.  You make so much more sense now. 

Manipulators think everyone else is a manipulator..

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1 hour ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Especially when they are. 

That’s rich, from you, the Liar in Chief.

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3 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Especially when they are. 

That's incorrect, not everyone is a manipulator. You missed the point.

Manipulators use the assumption that everyone else is a manipulator justify their actions.

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On 10/14/2018 at 3:22 AM, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I left out Messenger attacks. 

So Grrr is 100% innocent of the excesses I listed? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

The philosopher Merold Westphal said that only people who know themselves to be guilty of something "can find comfort in finding others to be just as bad or worse."[98] Whataboutery, as practiced by both parties in The Troubles in Northern Ireland to highlight what the other side had done to them, was "one of the commonest forms of evasion of personal moral responsibility," according to Bishop (later Cardinal) Cahal Daly.[99] After a political shooting at a baseball game in 2017, journalist Chuck Todd criticized the tenor of political debate, commenting, "What-about-ism is among the worst instincts of partisans on both sides."[100][101]

Joe Austin was critical of the practice of whataboutism in Northern Ireland in a 1994 piece, The Obdurate and the Obstinate, writing: "And I'd no time at all for 'What aboutism' ... if you got into it you were defending the indefensible."[104] In 2017, The New Yorker described the tactic as "a strategy of false moral equivalences",[25] and Clarence Page called the technique "a form of logical jiu-jitsu".[105] Writing for National Review, commentator Ben Shapiro criticized the practice, whether it was used by those espousing right-wing politics or left-wing politics; Shapiro concluded: "It's all dumb. And it's making us all dumber."[106] Michael J. Koplow of Israel Policy Forum wrote that the usage of whataboutism had become a crisis; concluding that the tactic did not yield any benefits, Koplow charged that "whataboutism from either the right or the left only leads to a black hole of angry recriminations from which nothing will escape".[107]

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On 10/13/2018 at 6:30 PM, Mrleft8 said:

I tend to call it "enhancing the truth", when I do it in writing.... "Embellishing" leads one to think of adding trinkets, and glitter.... I just make the truth bigger, and more interesting than it used to be....

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

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