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5 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Fuck! Now I have to go look at the front page. Does anyone know the way there?

It’s a long, dark, treacherous journey...

Best to abandon it.

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15 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Fuck! Now I have to go look at the front page. Does anyone know the way there?

Well,  there is a dress code , so since you are from pa, once you are finished with whatever you do over there  pull up your pants  wipe yourself clean before you enter. Oh and wipe the  toilet seat and the door handle off, we don't want any of the wonen folk  getting pregnant . 

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11 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Well,  there is a dress code , so since you are from pa, once you are finished with whatever you do over there  pull up your pants  wipe yourself clean before you enter. Oh and wipe the  toilet seat and the door handle off, we don't want any of the wonen folk  getting pregnant . 

‘Wonen’ folk? Struggling a bit with spelling those big words cupcake? 

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1 hour ago, VWAP said:

Well,  there is a dress code , so since you are from pa, once you are finished with whatever you do over there  pull up your pants  wipe yourself clean before you enter. Oh and wipe the  toilet seat and the door handle off, we don't want any of the wonen folk  getting pregnant . 

 

Unisex bathroom in a small restaurant on Martha's Vineyard.  Sign above the toilet tank read:

"If you sprinkle, when you tinkle; be a sweetie, wipe the seatie!""

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On 10/16/2018 at 5:30 PM, wingssail said:

 

4. Don't pee over the side.

 

 

thats my head though 

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

Unisex bathroom in a small restaurant on Martha's Vineyard.  Sign above the toilet tank read:

"If you sprinkle, when you tinkle; be a sweetie, wipe the seatie!""

UB in Browne Dogge Dellie, Charlseton, SC hase saime sine.               :)

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On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:08 AM, blunted said:

  Better yet, call it out when it happens, "Bob, you're married with kids, stop hitting on me, it's not going to happen and it's making you look stupid, just cut it the fuck out and stick to sailing please".

If the woman in question has even a scintilla of respect from the owner and the crew, it'll be a quiet next leg on the course and Bob will STFU and cut that shit out.

Amen.

What happened to personal accountability for both parties?  The guy in the story should be called out on the spot by the offended lady. How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior. 

If a person is doing something inappropriate, the offended individual needs to stand up and call them out on the spot. This works.  What doesn't work is not clearly communicating your likes and dislikes, feeling upset afterward and complaining about it online. Go to a therapist.  

We're all accountable for our own behavior, both guys and gals.  The future of our species depends on men making passes at women, being successful, and having kids.  I'm not condoning ANY sexually aggressive behavior, but men hitting on women is hard wired into the human condition. If the behavior is inappropriate or unwanted the offended (guy or girl) needs to clearly communicate that to that person.  If the person does not respond to that, then it is harassment and absolutely not ok.  

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34 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

UB in Browne Dogge Dellie, Charlseton, SC hase saime sine.               :)

 

Thanks!!  Both daughters live in Chucktown, must remember to ask them if they know the place!!

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

‘Wonen’ folk? Struggling a bit with spelling those big words cupcake? 

WoolMan folk ??

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On 10/17/2018 at 8:23 AM, blunted said:

Per the original thread, I have not in the last 15 years seen any explicitly shitty sexist behavior alluded to in the anecdote provided in any of a wide variety of boats and crews that have women participating in them, that I have sailed with. Sure there is occasionally a clumsy pass at a girl that ranks as a fail, occasionally a poorly delivered joke that leaves you face palming. Broadly speaking however I see meritocracy at work on a wide variety of crews. Many women / girls are given plenty of chances to participate in different ways on boats, sooner or later some roles require grunty strength and they eventually fall to very strong women, a rarity, or a young buck who has the energy for the role. Sooner or later skills come out on top in various roles on the boat.

It would be a shame to see wicked up identity politics and "offense culture" injected into the sport. It won't build it up, it won't "cure" it, it won't do much other then piss off a bunch of people who will simply walk away, perfectly reasonable pleasant people who are today an asset to the sport.

You're absolutely correct that we should have an aversion to allowing victimhood culture into the sport, however, it seems to me that, most young sailors who are moving up in the sport start in dinghies and learn to sail in classes where girls and guys sail competitively and beat one another regularly. I think what should be done is that owners really have to take charge on larger boats that people should just be treated equally. The reality that isn't discussed much IMO is that completely fair, even handed people can still be called a-holes. But if everyone on a boat together can agree to stick to a moral compass it would be much easier to avoid the cringe-worthy situations discussed in this thread.

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So by the US’s uptight, puritanical, sexually repressed society, this would raise yowls of protest. In Sweden, where this pic came from, it’s no big deal.

really-girl-300x212.jpg

 

Ed - have you completely gone around the bend?

This photo is not going to cause howls of protest in the USA, but feel free to move to Sweden anyway.

 

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16 hours ago, LB 15 said:
On 10/18/2018 at 12:06 AM, AnotherSailor said:

So, what the fuck happened? I just looked at the front page and there is another post about an add with a woman in a bikini and a guy pulling it off. While up to a few weeks ago much worse things were posted on the front page, the company who used the image is now accused of promoting rape??? 

While I find the image not that bad, it is not bad to think about what it implies. Moreover I really applaud the turn around and I hope that SA will also up its own standards:

- no more images of underage women in thongs accidentally shown and calling it a sailor chick of the week 

- no more scotw for looks. Appreciate skills instead

- I cannot think of a third, someone help me

Fuck! Now I have to go look at the front page. Does anyone know the way there?

I wouldn't start from here.

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16 hours ago, LB 15 said:

‘Wonen’ folk? Struggling a bit with spelling those big words cupcake? 

Noo hiit thee wrrong keay and didnnt gave fook al abboutt its as 

 

annyhooo

i hopees taiss lattlle atrikle b loww mak you feeel beeter about yuore sealf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/e496fdb3-70d7-4536-ab04-cccf35a0a67b

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does this mean there won't be any more "Sailing Chick of the Week" posts of scantily clad honey pots?

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6 minutes ago, caneesq said:

does this mean there won't be any more "Sailing Chick of the Week" posts of scantily clad honey pots?

Give it a few months or until Ed gets dumped by the latest love interest and they'll be back.

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4 hours ago, VWAP said:

Noo hiit thee wrrong keay and didnnt gave fook al abboutt its as 

 

annyhooo

i hopees taiss lattlle atrikle b loww mak you feeel beeter about yuore sealf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/e496fdb3-70d7-4536-ab04-cccf35a0a67b

Shit. Is that all that’s wrong with Snaggle? 

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44 minutes ago, OutofOffice said:

Shit. Is that all that’s wrong with Snaggle? 

no

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9 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Here is a gal that would kick anyones ass if they didn't leave the seat down and clean as a whistle.

https://itouchmyself.org/#

 

What is

 it ouch myself?

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Image may contain: one or more people, people standing and outdoor

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On 10/18/2018 at 7:09 PM, teddyrow said:

Amen.

What happened to personal accountability for both parties?  The guy in the story should be called out on the spot by the offended lady. How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior. 

If a person is doing something inappropriate, the offended individual needs to stand up and call them out on the spot. This works.  What doesn't work is not clearly communicating your likes and dislikes, feeling upset afterward and complaining about it online. Go to a therapist.  

We're all accountable for our own behavior, both guys and gals.  The future of our species depends on men making passes at women, being successful, and having kids.  I'm not condoning ANY sexually aggressive behavior, but men hitting on women is hard wired into the human condition. If the behavior is inappropriate or unwanted the offended (guy or girl) needs to clearly communicate that to that person.  If the person does not respond to that, then it is harassment and absolutely not ok.  

"How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior."

You can't be serious, right? No no no, it is not our job to "educate" shitbags that grabbing on us is wrong. By the time a male has reached adulthood, any number of forces from parents to societal norms in general should have imbued that male with a general clue as to right and wrong. We are not talking about toddlers here, these are grown men and by that age, and it's on them to know, not us to touch.

"We're all accountable for our own behavior, both guys and gals."

Yes, exactly, in direct contradiction to the absurd assertion that women are somehow responsible for educating men about what to grab vs not grab, it's on each of us to arrive at adulthood 1. Knowing what's ok and 2. Having enough situational awareness to figure out when lines are being crossed by our own behaviour.

 

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8 minutes ago, BlondeWithFreeBoat said:

"How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior."

You can't be serious, right? No no no, it is not our job to "educate" shitbags that grabbing on us is wrong. By the time a male has reached adulthood, any number of forces from parents to societal norms in general should have imbued that male with a general clue as to right and wrong. We are not talking about toddlers here, these are grown men and by that age, and it's on them to know, not us to touch.

"We're all accountable for our own behavior, both guys and gals."

Yes, exactly, in direct contradiction to the absurd assertion that women are somehow responsible for educating men about what to grab vs not grab, it's on each of us to arrive at adulthood 1. Knowing what's ok and 2. Having enough situational awareness to figure out when lines are being crossed by our own behaviour.

 

Besides for that, you are in a confined area with someone who seems to have the approval of the skipper. In the long term you never go back, but in the short term this would be an incredibly uncomfortable spot to be in.

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On 10/20/2018 at 5:12 PM, DA-WOODY said:

Image may contain: one or more people, people standing and outdoor

Woody, seriously, that post is pretty fucked up in this thread.  Go have a wank and get over it.

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6 hours ago, random said:

Woody, seriously, that post is pretty fucked up in this thread.  Go have a wank  over in pa with the rest of us viagra popping idiots  and get over it.

FIFY

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This thread is like fishing for tuna on a long line.

 

seriously fucked up. I’ve never seen major issues on any boat I’ve sailed on, it comes down to the social standards of the individual(s)

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7 hours ago, Tropical Madness said:

This thread is like fishing for tuna on a long line.

 

seriously fucked up. I’ve never seen major issues on any boat I’ve sailed on, it comes down to the social standards of the individual(s)

Yeah, I never thought it would happen either, until it did.  And the surprise was the individuals involved, both fine upstanding married citizens/sailors who turned out to be closet creeps, both of whom I would have been proud to call a friend until this shit went down.

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7 minutes ago, Kack said:

I got caught this weekend at a regatta party referring to women as girls.  I was corrected by a very nice attractive sailor woman who was one of our competitors.   I made my best concerted effort not to be a stereotypical sailor guy and made sure I referred to the woman sailors as women not girls.  I got a 1 minute lecture from this particular woman about it and some discussion about respect and equality etc. and how she's not your typical "sailor girl"  

 

She went home with one of my bow guys...

 

just sayin'

 

Not that you'd think to cast aspersions on your bowman for going home with her or anything... *eyeroll*

That said, I don't understand the fuss over bowgirl vs bowwoman. Insay bowgirl because saying bowwoman is cumbersome and odd. What's shameful about girls? Meh. 

Mind you, the problem we are discussing here is not folks who get wrapped up in linguistic choices but folks who think it's ok to treat women a certain way. It isn't the issue at hand, but implying something about a female because she had a consensual encounter with a male (and having nothing to say about that male) really probably falls into that list of things men should stop doing if they want more women to sail. 

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On 10/18/2018 at 7:09 PM, teddyrow said:

Amen.

What happened to personal accountability for both parties?  The guy in the story should be called out on the spot by the offended lady. How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior. 

If a person is doing something inappropriate, the offended individual needs to stand up and call them out on the spot. This works.  What doesn't work is not clearly communicating your likes and dislikes, feeling upset afterward and complaining about it online. Go to a therapist.  

We're all accountable for our own behavior, both guys and gals.  The future of our species depends on men making passes at women, being successful, and having kids.  I'm not condoning ANY sexually aggressive behavior, but men hitting on women is hard wired into the human condition. If the behavior is inappropriate or unwanted the offended (guy or girl) needs to clearly communicate that to that person.  If the person does not respond to that, then it is harassment and absolutely not ok.  

This!!!

Unfortunately there are people like this in sailing and in the workplace.

They are a minority but they pollute the atmosphere on a boat and at work.  A sub culture of men who excuse their behaviour by telling us that men hitting on women is hard wired into the human condition.

Men who somehow think that the only way to find out if a woman is interested in them is to grab or pinch. If the woman is offended then it is her responsibility to give the poor guy (who is only trying to show his interest and propagate the species) clear communication?

No way.  Anyone who thinks like this is off our boat in a heartbeat.  The men , real men, who sail with us know how to inquire if a woman is interested in them.  At the regatta party, ask her for a dance. On the boat, ask her out for dinner.  Tell her you like her and would like to see her again. Pinching my ass just tells me that you are a weak loser!

Maybe you meant well Teddy, but you seriously need to change the way you look at the world. Offensive behaviour is not any less offensive because the woman did not feel in a position to call him out. That would excuse Harvey Weinstein and what he did was inexcusable.

 

 

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I agree that Teddyrow is the best example of the problem we have here, well next to woody's stripper that is.

The concept of grabbing em by the pussy and then wait for them to "clearly communicate" a response is less than infantile, closer to moronic, potentially criminal.

But that's what he is advocating ... the future of the species depends on it apparently!

image.png.63f4d54e7aefa6181b260b12b9e2ef9f.png

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3 hours ago, BlondeWithFreeBoat said:

Not that you'd think to cast aspersions on your bowman for going home with her or anything... *eyeroll*

That said, I don't understand the fuss over bowgirl vs bowwoman. Insay bowgirl because saying bowwoman is cumbersome and odd. What's shameful about girls? Meh. 

Mind you, the problem we are discussing here is not folks who get wrapped up in linguistic choices but folks who think it's ok to treat women a certain way. It isn't the issue at hand, but implying something about a female because she had a consensual encounter with a male (and having nothing to say about that male) really probably falls into that list of things men should stop doing if they want more women to sail. 

How big is his (boat) that he needs multiple bow guys on race day. 

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48 minutes ago, random said:

I agree that Teddyrow is the best example of the problem we have here, well next to woody's stripper that is.

The concept of grabbing em by the pussy and then wait for them to "clearly communicate" a response is less than infantile, closer to moronic, potentially criminal.

But that's what he is advocating ... the future of the species depends on it apparently!

image.png.63f4d54e7aefa6181b260b12b9e2ef9f.png

 oh snap

Another non sailing pa'er polluting the sailing site. 

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On 10/19/2018 at 12:09 AM, teddyrow said:

Amen.

What happened to personal accountability for both parties?  The guy in the story should be called out on the spot by the offended lady. How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior. 

If a person is doing something inappropriate, the offended individual needs to stand up and call them out on the spot. This works.  What doesn't work is not clearly communicating your likes and dislikes, feeling upset afterward and complaining about it online. Go to a therapist.  

We're all accountable for our own behavior, both guys and gals.  The future of our species depends on men making passes at women, being successful, and having kids.  I'm not condoning ANY sexually aggressive behavior, but men hitting on women is hard wired into the human condition. If the behavior is inappropriate or unwanted the offended (guy or girl) needs to clearly communicate that to that person.  If the person does not respond to that, then it is harassment and absolutely not ok.  

WTF??!!  You’ve got some very fucked up ideas. 

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On 10/19/2018 at 9:09 AM, teddyrow said:

I'm not condoning ANY sexually aggressive behavior, but ...

That's a particularly telling statement.  Student of the English language instinctively know that the word 'But', negates all said before it.

"I'm not racist BUT ..."

"I hear what you are saying BUT ..."

etc.

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

This!!!

Unfortunately there are people like this in sailing and in the workplace.

They are a minority but they pollute the atmosphere on a boat and at work.  A sub culture of men who excuse their behaviour by telling us that men hitting on women is hard wired into the human condition.

Men who somehow think that the only way to find out if a woman is interested in them is to grab or pinch. If the woman is offended then it is her responsibility to give the poor guy (who is only trying to show his interest and propagate the species) clear communication?

No way.  Anyone who thinks like this is off our boat in a heartbeat.  The men , real men, who sail with us know how to inquire if a woman is interested in them.  At the regatta party, ask her for a dance. On the boat, ask her out for dinner.  Tell her you like her and would like to see her again. Pinching my ass just tells me that you are a weak loser!

Maybe you meant well Teddy, but you seriously need to change the way you look at the world. Offensive behaviour is not any less offensive because the woman did not feel in a position to call him out. That would excuse Harvey Weinstein and what he did was inexcusable.

 

 

At Eyesailor and Random,

Clearly you didn't read the part that I am NOT CONDONING any form of Sexual harassment.  I'm not excusing any inappropriate behavior based on "nature".  I'm advocating for clear communication of boundaries and expectations from crew and owner as well as accountability. 

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2 hours ago, teddyrow said:

At Eyesailor and Random,

Clearly you didn't read the part that I am NOT CONDONING any form of Sexual harassment.  I'm not excusing any inappropriate behavior based on "nature".  I'm advocating for clear communication of boundaries and expectations from crew and owner as well as accountability. 

 

Quote

How is he, or anyone supposed to know what is right or wrong if there isn't immediate and clear feedback in response to their behavior. 

Hey......I'm giving you immediate and clear feedback!

Dont like it?

Yeah, that is generally what happens. 

Teddy...Im serious here. Its very hard for a woman to give that feedback AFTER someone has said something inappropriate (in your case) or done something inappropriate ...because the usual response is denial or "hyper sensitive B1tch".

  How rare is it for the perpetrator to fess up and admit "Hey yeah....what I said (or did) was out of line. Im better than that"...."what can I do to make you feel okay about calling me out on it?"

Most of the time, the woman feels like shit for calling someone out. I might be the exception because I have a tough hide and I can hand it out when I need to. But honestly even with me there have been moments in my life when I have been cringing  inside at certain moments (when I used to operate at a hospital) but there just was not the opportunity to call it out. I would come home exhausted after work because of the insensitivity of certain colleagues. It was just tiring having to deal with chauvinistic, insensitive BS.    I can deal with it at work....but sailing should be a refuge where women can relax with good friends who we can trust.  

 

 

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I never thought I would be agreeing with Random on a thread, let alone saying "Thank You"

But just to prove that there is an exception to every rule.

Random....thank you.

(but that wont stop me giving you hell in the next thread ;))

 

 

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31 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

Hey......I'm giving you immediate and clear feedback!

Dont like it?

Yeah, that is generally what happens. 

Teddy...Im serious here. Its very hard for a woman to give that feedback AFTER someone has said something inappropriate (in your case) or done something inappropriate ...because the usual response is denial or "hyper sensitive B1tch".

  How rare is it for the perpetrator to fess up and admit "Hey yeah....what I said (or did) was out of line. Im better than that"...."what can I do to make you feel okay about calling me out on it?"

Most of the time, the woman feels like shit for calling someone out. I might be the exception because I have a tough hide and I can hand it out when I need to. But honestly even with me there have been moments in my life when I have been cringing  inside at certain moments (when I used to operate at a hospital) but there just was not the opportunity to call it out. I would come home exhausted after work because of the insensitivity of certain colleagues. It was just tiring having to deal with chauvinistic, insensitive BS.    I can deal with it at work....but sailing should be a refuge where women can relax with good friends who we can trust.  

 

 

Eyesailor,

You are right.  I underestimated how hard giving feedback can be. Especially to an a-hole such as myself.  Thanks for expanding my mental horizons.

Cheers,

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