Saorsa

Speaking of Kashoggi

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13 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Complaining, bitching, and wasting money is what pols do. Rump is walking away from this and the rest of us can suck rotten eggs.

And Trump didn’t do squat when Turkish Security banged up American citizens on American soil....

Try to stay away from foreigners?  I guess that’s what Trump's telling us, because it’s looking like he couldn’t care less about protecting anyone- 

 

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She’s just “telling it like it is”. 

You know, “speaking her mind”. 

How many snowflakes will object?

 

0B587863-91ED-4675-82ED-8CF3C8880A26.jpeg

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56 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

She’s just “telling it like it is”. 

You know, “speaking her mind”. 

How many snowflakes will object?

 

0B587863-91ED-4675-82ED-8CF3C8880A26.jpeg

The padded gloves are off, the thin blue gloves are on. Bend over, Donnie.

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12 hours ago, Amati said:

And Trump didn’t do squat when Turkish Security banged up American citizens on American soil....

Try to stay away from foreigners?  I guess that’s what Trump's telling us, because it’s looking like he couldn’t care less about protecting anyone- 

 

And Bush went and invaded an innocent country after Saudi Arabia did 9/11.

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14 hours ago, Deplorable1 said:

Democrat Socialist President Obama went and played golf after the video release of James Foley’s beheading. Now that is a class act. 

You’re supporting which 2020 presidential candidate?

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On 11/22/2018 at 6:07 PM, Ishmael said:

The padded gloves are off, the thin blue gloves are on. Bend over, Donnie.

And sorry but the cuts to Medicare mean there’s no Lube available.....

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On 11/21/2018 at 7:05 AM, Mid said:

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$1000 says bette is still driving around in her gas-guzzler everyday.  

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On 11/21/2018 at 8:07 AM, Mark K said:

Sad to say just about any US POTUS would ultimately be right where Trump is now, they would all have been a lot slicker about it is all. 

Saw the TeeVee newz today. The Republicans are all citing the need for SA as a critical ally against Iran, and one even quoted the Israeli ambassador on that. AIPAC has spoken, our politicians must comply. Bibi has decreed Iran EVERYTHING and he has the Evangelical South in his pocket.  Game over. 

But more than that, is regime change in the KSA be a lift we are up for? I think not. Would whateverthefuk that replaced it be any better? Unlikely. Everything but that is scolding by any other name.

  I don't see the Wahhabi grip on the KSA being undone anytime soon. It's in their bones and has been so ever since the beginning. It will be a work of many generations if it happens at all. If I were in Trump's shoes I'd tell them to get out of Yemen or damn the torpedos  I'll fuck ya any way I could, but only because I believe they are getting sick and tired of that mess and are seeking a way to atone for this. Best plausible scenario IMO. Realpolitik scenario, that is. 

  

 0

Truth

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On 11/21/2018 at 5:15 PM, Blue Crab said:

I think "it is what it is" covers this issue honestly for a change: it just doesn't matter enough to upset the apple cart. Rump didn't even attempt a lie. He may even approve but that's not relevant.

And this is the crux of the matter that has everyone really upset.  As Mark said, every POTUS in recent history going back to WWII or even earlier would and has taken the same stance wrt to KSA.  They've just been much more nuanced in how they describe the relationship.  There was a recent piece on NPR or PBS, can't remember - probably both - where they compared statements made by Daddy Bush, Bill Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama all essentially saying the same thing wrt to KSA and human rights abuses and other transgressions and reiterated how the strategic relationship was simply more important.  They were just much nicer about it and were able to at least feign concern for "human rights" (air quotes).  

The issue is that trump has no filter.  He is giving us the unvarnished truth and is not even apologetic for it.  And I think that is what is pissing people off the most, and with good reason.  As a society - we want to be lied to, we NEED to be lied to.  To have the messy truth shoved in our faces makes us feel uncomfortable and makes us nervous.  We need to be told that morality and principles matter, even when they clearly don't.  It's the fragile thread that holds society together.  We all know deep down that its BS but we hold out hope that there is some chance that it's not just all BS.  So we don't want to have it so glaringly pointed out that it's all BS.  We don't really want to see who's behind the curtain pulling the strings and turning the dials - we just want things to work and for the sun to come up the next morning like it always does.

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On 11/22/2018 at 11:04 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

And this is the crux of the matter that has everyone really upset.  As Mark said, every POTUS in recent history going back to WWII or even earlier would and has taken the same stance wrt to KSA.  They've just been much more nuanced in how they describe the relationship.  There was a recent piece on NPR or PBS, can't remember - probably both - where they compared statements made by Daddy Bush, Bill Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama all essentially saying the same thing wrt to KSA and human rights abuses and other transgressions and reiterated how the strategic relationship was simply more important.  They were just much nicer about it and were able to at least feign concern for "human rights" (air quotes).  

The issue is that trump has no filter.  He is giving us the unvarnished truth and is not even apologetic for it.  And I think that is what is pissing people off the most, and with good reason.  As a society - we want to be lied to, we NEED to be lied to.  To have the messy truth shoved in our faces makes us feel uncomfortable and makes us nervous.  We need to be told that morality and principles matter, even when they clearly don't.  It's the fragile thread that holds society together.  We all know deep down that its BS but we hold out hope that there is some chance that it's not just all BS.  So we don't want to have it so glaringly pointed out that it's all BS.  We don't really want to see who's behind the curtain pulling the strings and turning the dials - we just want things to work and for the sun to come up the next morning like it always does.

I agree in general, but must point out the big problem with Trump is he NEVER gives the unvarnished truth. In this case he's running around pretending that there is no proof MbS was in on it. 

 It's like his ex-layer said, the guy is incapable of telling the truth...even when the truth would be fine. He lies constantly and badly about everything. This is his biggest flaw. I recall the infamous press conference when Putin was admitting he ordered his guys to help Trump but Trump kept denying that happened anyway. He's got a real problem, one that tires people out too. 

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Good point.

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On 11/20/2018 at 2:46 PM, d'ranger said:

I don't think the USA has ever met a friendly despot they didn't like

as Eva Dent

Jimmy Carter did.

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Perfect -

A DC neighborhood group just voted to rename the street in front of the Saudi embassy for Jamal Khashoggi

 
Excerpt -
 
(CNN) — An effort underway in Washington, D.C., would create an in-your-face way to remind Saudi Arabia of the killing of Jamal Khashoggi: Rename the street in front of the Saudi embassy in honor of the slain journalist.
The first hurdle for this proposed honor was cleared Wednesday when a neighborhood group approved a resolution that would symbolically designate part of the street that runs in front of the Embassy of The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as "Jamal Khashoggi Way." The embassy's address is 601 New Hampshire Avenue NW.
The resolution from the seven-member Advisory Neighborhood Commission 2A passed unanimously, commissioner James Harnett told CNN. The commission, which is part of the government in the District of Columbia, normally handles local issues like zoning, parking and trash collection in the West End and Foggy Bottom neighborhoods. But Harnett said commissioners were outraged by Khashoggi's killing, as well as President Trump's reaction to it, and felt the need to take action on an international issue.
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That would be a big deal. I used to live a block and a half from that place, and walked past it almost daily. It is right across New Hampshire Ave from the Watergate hotel, and next to the Kennedy Center. Putting all of them on Khashoggi street would make quite a statement. I can’t see the feds letting them do it. 

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"Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN after a briefing with Haspel that the prince, known as MBS, "ordered, monitored, the killing" of the father of four.
Corker added, "And if he (MBS) were in front of a jury, he would be convicted of murder in about 30 minutes." "
 
so what he's saying is donny is  as big a piece of shit and complicit to the murder of Mr. Kashoggi...
 
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11 minutes ago, dacapo said:
"Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN after a briefing with Haspel that the prince, known as MBS, "ordered, monitored, the killing" of the father of four.
Corker added, "And if he (MBS) were in front of a jury, he would be convicted of murder in about 30 minutes." "
 
so what he's saying is donny is  as big a piece of shit and complicit to the murder of Mr. Kashoggi...
 

This can't be condoned or excused - the precedent of allowing foreign governments to "take" US residents without repercussion is unconscionable. 

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

This can't be condoned or excused - the precedent of allowing foreign governments to "take" US residents without repercussion is unconscionable. 

Agreed 10000%.  As POTUS you cannot ignore the intelligence agencies.  I'm so pissed off at my country for electing this asshole.  

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8 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

This can't be condoned or excused - the precedent of allowing foreign governments to "take" US residents without repercussion is unconscionable. 

 Hate to say it because I agree with the sentiment...but he was a KSA citizen who left the US on his own accord. What is legally more unconscionable is Turkey's case. They killed a guy on Turkish soil. That's a huge no-no.

 

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1 minute ago, Mark K said:

 Hate to say it because I agree with the sentiment...but he was a KSA citizen who left the US on his own accord. What is legally more unconscionable is Turkey's case. They killed a guy on Turkish soil. That's a huge no-no.

 

Arabian soil, if it happened in their embassy.

 Part of me says, won't this be just a hoot, when Kashoggi comes out of hiding, and says "GOTCHA! YER ALL A BUNCH OF LYING SHIT EATERS!!!!!"

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13 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Arabian soil, if it happened in their embassy.

Nope, Turkish soil, at least by the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. It is inviolable (can't search, ...). But it is an accommodation on host country soil. For example, the US just kicked the Russkies out of their San Francisco consulate on Green Street. We can do that. It is our soil. We just couldn't search it any time we wanted (to see the listening posts on the roof).

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8 hours ago, Mark K said:

 Hate to say it because I agree with the sentiment...but he was a KSA citizen who left the US on his own accord. What is legally more unconscionable is Turkey's case. They killed a guy on Turkish soil. That's a huge no-no.

I wonder about that, Mark - he had to have a suspicion that things weren't going to go well.  While he wasn't kidnapped, I'd be interested to hear how he was compelled to make the trip in the first place. Completely agree w/r/t Turkey. They're playing the denial game - they're almost as bad as the House of Saud.  It's not a new approach - I think that the Turkish government has been disingenuous for a long time, as I observed when I was in Sinop back in the early 80s.  There are definitely different standards of consideration dependent upon who you are.  

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8 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Nope, Turkish soil, at least by the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. It is inviolable (can't search, ...). But it is an accommodation on host country soil. For example, the US just kicked the Russkies out of their San Francisco consulate on Green Street. We can do that. It is our soil. We just couldn't search it any time we wanted (to see the listening posts on the roof).

Ah! I see the distinction now.

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9 hours ago, Mark K said:

 Hate to say it because I agree with the sentiment...but he was a KSA citizen who left the US on his own accord. What is legally more unconscionable is Turkey's case. They killed a guy on Turkish soil. That's a huge no-no.

 

Is this case under American jurisdiction? 

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12 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I wonder about that, Mark - he had to have a suspicion that things weren't going to go well.  While he wasn't kidnapped, I'd be interested to hear how he was compelled to make the trip in the first place. Completely agree w/r/t Turkey. They're playing the denial game - they're almost as bad as the House of Saud.  It's not a new approach - I think that the Turkish government has been disingenuous for a long time, as I observed when I was in Sinop back in the early 80s.  There are definitely different standards of consideration dependent upon who you are.  

 I wouldn't say they are in denial..it was the Turks that broke the story..but I agree they are nobodies heroes. They clearly want the needle the hell out of the Saudis but not go too far. They have not closed even the consulate...and this incident warrants the breaking off of diplomatic relations. 

 Maybe they are working this for money. But maybe Erdo is angling to be supplant the Saudis as the paragon of Islam. Hard to tell. One thing I am sure of is a heck of a lot of Muslims are not down with this medieval Wahhabi BS...but that's what controls Mecca. Erdo has undone the Turkey that Attaturk made, he has made himself the new Sultan, and may even be dreaming of re-establishing something like the Ottoman Empire. MTGA. The Saudi's stand in the way of that, I suppose. 

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11 hours ago, Mickey Rat said:

Is this case under American jurisdiction? 

I dunno. It's a question for lawyers. What jurisdiction we have over the KSA dealing with one of their own citizens? Unless he is on our territory...and that would include an embassy...jack-all would be my first guess.  

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Now we're waiting for America to play follow-the-leader? Sad. I remember a time when there was at least lip service against shit like this.

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

What are other countries doing about this?

Accepting what their intelligence agencies say about the matter.

Let me know when they start cutting up Australian citizens/residents on the orders of the Saudi crown prince and I'll be sure to give my government's ass a kicking when they ignore it so they can get an arms deal through.

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19 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Accepting what their intelligence agencies say about the matter.

Let me know when they start cutting up Australian citizens/residents on the orders of the Saudi crown prince and I'll be sure to give my government's ass a kicking when they ignore it so they can get an arms deal through.

Yeah 110 billion bucks so they can go bomb Yemen back into the stone age because there are some militants there.

By the way Yemen is barely out of the stone age:

 Yemen's average annual per capita income stands at USD 2,213, which is well into the lower range of low-income countries. By comparison, the average income in Saudi Arabia is USD 23,274 

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Now we're waiting for America to play follow-the-leader? Sad. I remember a time when there was at least lip service against shit like this.

Well, it depends on who is in the WH and who is doing the criticizing.

The last guy was blasted for acting all Imperial when made the first move and blasted for leading from behind when he didn't.

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Now we're waiting for America to play follow-the-leader? Sad. I remember a time when there was at least lip service against shit like this.

No, you fools are making stuff up again.  I just ask a question since I'm not sure what anyone can actually do about it.

Khasoggi was a Saudi national murdered in a Saudi embassy (legally Saudi soil in other than extraordinary cases) in Turkey.

What can anyone but Turkey or Saudi Arabia actually do?

Who are the largest importers fo Saudi oil?

What has anyone done but demand an investigation?

What was our official reaction to any other journalist murder?  Michael Hastings?

What do you want done?

 

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19 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Who are the largest importers fo Saudi oil?

Us should start importing Russian oil! That'll teach em!<_<

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On 12/5/2018 at 9:31 PM, Bent Sailor said:
On 12/5/2018 at 7:46 PM, Saorsa said:

What are other countries doing about this?

Accepting what their intelligence agencies say about the matter.

And then what specific actions are they taking with the information???  

It's actually a fair question.  The US is continually accused by the rest of the world of meddling and sticking our nose in other's business, trying to tell other countries what they can and can't do and trying to pressure them to bend to our will.  Yet when we choose to stay out of another countries business, we are criticized for not doing enough.  

IMHO, the US should criticize KSA for this barbarity and punish them for their actions.  But I don't see many other countries doing anything concrete about them either except for paying lip service to the event and criticizing the US for not doing enough.  

So typical.....

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3 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

IMHO, the US should criticize KSA for this barbarity and punish them for their actions.  But I don't see many other countries doing anything concrete about them either except for paying lip service to the event and criticizing the US for not doing enough.  

I agree with your first sentence quoted above.  As for the second sentence - shit like that was not the bar we used to determine if a response was warranted.  Looking for outside validation and/or support for doing the right thing is a new policy for the US.  

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Just now, Bus Driver said:
5 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

IMHO, the US should criticize KSA for this barbarity and punish them for their actions.  But I don't see many other countries doing anything concrete about them either except for paying lip service to the event and criticizing the US for not doing enough.  

I agree with your first sentence quoted above.  As for the second sentence - shit like that was not the bar we used to determine if a response was warranted.  Looking for outside validation and/or support for doing the right thing is a new policy for the US.  

No, not at all.  One does not have anything to do with the other.  But I was addressing the specific topic of what are these other countries that are criticizing the US actually doing other than hurling invectives at us.  

The US should do what we need to do irregardless of what other countries do.  But its still fair to ask what are they also doing other than slinging shit.

See the difference?

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Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

No, not at all.  One does not have anything to do with the other.  But I was addressing the specific topic of what are these other countries that are criticizing the US actually doing other than hurling invectives at us.  

The US should do what we need to do irregardless of what other countries do.  But its still fair to ask what are they also doing other than slinging shit.

See the difference?

Fair enough.

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46 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And then what specific actions are they taking with the information???  

It's actually a fair question.  The US is continually accused by the rest of the world of meddling and sticking our nose in other's business, trying to tell other countries what they can and can't do and trying to pressure them to bend to our will.  Yet when we choose to stay out of another countries business, we are criticized for not doing enough.  

IMHO, the US should criticize KSA for this barbarity and punish them for their actions.  But I don't see many other countries doing anything concrete about them either except for paying lip service to the event and criticizing the US for not doing enough.  

So typical.....

Well the British aren’t doing much, but we are bit busy fucking the country up with Brexit at the moment. 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

...

MHO, the US should criticize KSA for this barbarity and punish them for their actions.  But I don't see many other countries doing anything concrete about them either except for paying lip service to the event and criticizing the US for not doing enough.  

So typical.....

https://globalnews.ca/news/4680519/germany-saudi-arabia-arms-sales-khashoggi/

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/2018/11/23/finland-joins-ban-on-new-arms-exports-to-saudi-arabia-over-khashoggi-yemen-crisis

https://thehill.com/policy/international/417993-denmark-suspending-weapons-exports-to-saudi-arabia-over-khashoggi

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I think this kind of thing is a daily deal in the darker corners of the world, we just don't hear about it. And wouldn't do anything if we did.

Kumbaya is for campfires not geopolitics.

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21 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And then what specific actions are they taking with the information???  

You can see those actions already. And given it wasn't a citizen or resident of their country, it is perfectly acceptable for them to be doing less than what is expected of the USA. I expect more from the nation whose resident/citizen was murdered than one who is simply observing the craven actions of said country willing to ignore said murder for money. 

As I've already made clear, I would find it perfectly acceptable for people to criticise our prime minister for ignoring our intelligence agency about the murder of and Australian citizen or resident. I guess you could add to that the fact I would find any Aussie trying to deflect from that criticism by cheap whataboutism to be pretty pathetic. 

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23 hours ago, mad said:

Well the British aren’t doing much, but we are bit busy fucking the country up with Brexit at the moment. 

Well, in our defense too..... we're a bit busy fucking up the country with trump.  :ph34r:

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44 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Well, in our defense too..... we're a bit busy fucking up the country with trump.  :ph34r:

Coulda been worse. We coulda had Hillary.

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5 minutes ago, Olsonist said:
50 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Well, in our defense too..... we're a bit busy fucking up the country with trump.  :ph34r:

Coulda been worse. We coulda had Hillary.

Nah, we'd have had President Kaine after Hillary got impeached for Benghazi!

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6 hours ago, Mickey Rat said:

Hi. :D

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvW7c-0xyuUujLgZS_IEz

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Thank you.

 

Do you think that any time in the near future politicians world over will want photo ops with MbS? 

 Jeff asks if there is something we should do. Good question, but perhaps he's fucked himself up enough. This will stick with him for a very long time. He has done a lot of damage to the KSA already. 

 Interested in specifics though. It's fine to say "do something" but the fun doesn't start until the "what?" stage. God, in his infinite wisdom, placed the largest portion of sweet crude under those goat fuckers. Anybody who thinks the KSA becoming another Iraq wouldn't fuck the world's economy big time must be prepared to describe precisely what the effect on oil prices that would have. 

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12 minutes ago, Mark K said:

 Jeff asks if there is something we should do.

Have Jared stop helping MBS? I mean, that'd be a start. I get that Jeffreaux doesn't like to talk about the commingling of personal interests and state interests that is the hallmark of the Trump regime, much less the general lawlessness in approach, but we could start with not helping.

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9 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Have Jared stop helping MBS? I mean, that'd be a start. I get that Jeffreaux doesn't like to talk about the commingling of personal interests and state interests that is the hallmark of the Trump regime, much less the general lawlessness in approach, but we could start with not helping.

How has is Jared helping MbS?  

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20 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Yes. It will be interesting to see how House oversight of Jared plays out. Well, it'll just be amusing to watch the backflips from people who said Imperial presidencys were bad now defend them.

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22 hours ago, Mark K said:

Do you think that any time in the near future politicians world over will want photo ops with MbS? 

 Jeff asks if there is something we should do. Good question, 

 Interested in specifics though. It's fine to say "do something" but the fun doesn't start until the "what?" stage. God, in his infinite wisdom, placed the largest portion of sweet crude under those goat fuckers. Anybody who thinks the KSA becoming another Iraq wouldn't fuck the world's economy big time must be prepared to describe precisely what the effect on oil prices that would have. 

Exactly!  That's what I've been trying to say all along.  There is very little of consequence we can do other than do what past preznits have done and wring our hands, pay lip service to human rights and sound sympathetic to the victims families.  

And again, I think this is what has pissed everyone off so much.  That trump is such and unfiltered buffoon that he says what is actually happening rather than maintaining the charade.  People WANT the charade.  They don't want the unfiltered truth.  Trump makes them uncomfortable because it forces us all to deal with reality.  Most don't want unvarnished reality.  

In that regard, I think how trump is handling this is completely wrong.  He's used to lying in so many other areas - why can't he just lie this one more time and make it all better and tell people what they want to hear???  

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22 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I get that Jeffreaux doesn't like to talk about the commingling of personal interests and state interests that is the hallmark of the Trump regime, 

Hi Razr.  No you don't get that.  You are wrong as usual.

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21 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Exactly!  That's what I've been trying to say all along.  There is very little of consequence we can do other than do what past preznits have done and wring our hands, pay lip service to human rights and sound sympathetic to the victims families.  

And again, I think this is what has pissed everyone off so much.  That trump is such and unfiltered buffoon that he says what is actually happening rather than maintaining the charade.  People WANT the charade.  They don't want the unfiltered truth.  Trump makes them uncomfortable because it forces us all to deal with reality.  Most don't want unvarnished reality.  

In that regard, I think how trump is handling this is completely wrong.  He's used to lying in so many other areas - why can't he just lie this one more time and make it all better and tell people what they want to hear???  

That's why they pay those POTUSes the big bucks. 

  I would argue, but not publicly, that the KSA has fucked itself pretty good already. They have made themselves social pariahs in the world's community, and with MbS's big plans of "Doha in the Desert" modernization economic model now dead as a beaver hat and support for killing every Shia in Yemen dropping faster than Putin's zipper when Trump walks in the room...all for one B-list pundit?? 

  MbS should punch himself in the dick. 

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

That's why they pay those POTUSes the big bucks. 

  I would argue, but not publicly, that the KSA has fucked itself pretty good already. They have made themselves social pariahs in the world's community, and with MbS's big plans of "Doha in the Desert" modernization economic model now dead as a beaver hat and support for killing every Shia in Yemen dropping faster than Putin's zipper when Trump walks in the room...all for one B-list pundit?? 

  MbS should punch himself in the dick. 

Yep, totally agree.  I do think that someone in the royal family is going to quickly wake up to the same reality and punch his dick for him.  

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

dropping faster than Putin's zipper when Trump walks in the room.

BTW - fuck you very much for that mental image.  Ewwww!  :lol:

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Lovely people, Trump and Kushner need to answer for this.

A full transcript of slain Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi's final moments reveals that he told his Saudi attackers "I can't breathe," before a team of agents dismembered him, a source who reviewed the transcript told CNN

Khashoggi, whose October death at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul set off an international diplomatic crisis, protested and gasped for air as he was abducted and killed by a group of Saudi agents, some of whom have been identified as top Saudi government officials, the source told CNN.

"You are coming back," a man identified as former Saudi diplomat and intelligence official Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb told Khashoggi, CNN reported. Mutreb intercepted Khashoggi in front of the consulate. 

"You can't do that," Khashoggi replied. "People are waiting outside."

According to the source, citing the transcript, a group of people then began to attack Khashoggi and he gasped for air.

"I can't breathe," Khashoggi said. 

The transcript then reads, "Scream. Scream. Gasping." 

"Saw," it continues, according to CNN's source. "Cutting."

Another man who Turkish authorities have identified as Dr. Salah Muhammad al-Tubaiqi, the head of forensic medicine at Saudi Arabia's Interior Ministry, advised the agents to listen to music as they dismembered Khashoggi's body, the source said.

"Put your earphones in, or listen to music like me," al-Tubaiqi said, according to the transcript.
 
Mutreb then made a phone call, saying at one point, "Tell yours, the thing is done, it's done." CNN reported the source believes "yours" is a reference to someone's boss.

Top intelligence officials have heard and reviewed the audio recording, which was obtained by Turkish authorities. 

The involvement of Mutreb and al-Tubaiqi was previously known, but the source's account provides the most insight into Khashoggi's final moments.

A Saudi official in a statement to CNN said, "The relevant Saudi security officials have reviewed the transcript and tape materials through Turkish security channels and nowhere in them is there any reference or indication of a call being made."

The transcript directly contradicts multiple official explanations put forward by the Saudi government, including one explanation that accused Khasoggi of getting into a fist fight with a team of rogue agents, and another that implied he could have been on drugs.

The source told CNN that the transcript substantiates the Turkish account of an organized team of Saudi agents assassinating Khashoggi as part of a premeditated mission. 

The CIA has reportedly concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered Khashoggi's killing. CNN's source said it is widely believed Mutreb spoke on the phone to Saud al-Qahtani, bin Salman's closest aide, who has since been removed from his position. 

CNN reported the details of the transcript on Sunday, shortly after the New York Times reported that President Trump's adviser and son-in-law, Jared Kushner, offered advice to bin Salman about how to “weather the storm” after Khashoggi's death.

Despite pressure from lawmakers and intelligence community conclusions that the crown prince ordered the murder, the president has refused to condemn bin Salman directly for any involvement.

Lawmakers, including many Republicans, have slammed the administration for failing to acknowledge proof that they say leaves little doubt of the crown prince’s involvement.

https://thehill.com/media/420488-full-transcript-reveals-slain-journalist-khashoggis-last-words-cnn

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Trump love Crown Prince cunt face. He wants to grab him on the mouth.

4E3F56D1-8938-4F3B-A906-8F35F4A85F9F.jpeg

8766A331-5EAA-4E0F-A3FC-65645AEC3141.jpeg

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On 12/9/2018 at 2:27 PM, Mark K said:

That's why they pay those POTUSes the big bucks. 

  I would argue, but not publicly, that the KSA has fucked itself pretty good already. They have made themselves social pariahs in the world's community, and with MbS's big plans of "Doha in the Desert" modernization economic model now dead as a beaver hat and support for killing every Shia in Yemen dropping faster than Putin's zipper when Trump walks in the room...all for one B-list pundit?? 

  MbS should punch himself in the dick. 

The bolded part doesn't seem all that believable to me, though I don't have an alternate explanation. Does it seem believable to you?

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TIME has chosen Jamal Khashoggi and other journalists as 2018's ‘Person of the Year'.

Others: The staff of Maryland’s Capital Gazette; Reuters journalists Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo; Maria Ressa, CEO of a news outlet in the Philippines targeted by Duterte.https://nbcnews.to/2Eoi9El 

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59 minutes ago, badlatitude said:
 

TIME has chosen Jamal Khashoggi and other journalists as 2018's ‘Person of the Year'.

Others: The staff of Maryland’s Capital Gazette; Reuters journalists Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo; Maria Ressa, CEO of a news outlet in the Philippines targeted by Duterte.https://nbcnews.to/2Eoi9El 

Trump could frame those and keep those covers next his own. 

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1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

The one with him in the orange jumpsuit?

If only......I very much doubt we’ll see that day. 

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On 12/11/2018 at 4:12 AM, dogballs Tom said:

The bolded part doesn't seem all that believable to me, though I don't have an alternate explanation. Does it seem believable to you?

Why? 

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On 12/9/2018 at 2:27 PM, Mark K said:

  I would argue, but not publicly, that the KSA has fucked itself pretty good already. They have made themselves social pariahs in the world's community, and with MbS's big plans of "Doha in the Desert" modernization economic model now dead as a beaver hat and support for killing every Shia in Yemen dropping faster than Putin's zipper when Trump walks in the room...all for one B-list pundit?? 

 

5 hours ago, Mark K said:

Why? 

Exactly the question it raises. And the reason for two question marks, I suspect.

But I could be wrong. Why did you ask that question at the end, and did you just double click the question mark button?

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The US Senate has voted to withdraw US military aid for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen and to blame the kingdom's crown prince for the murder of a journalist.

President Trump has vowed to veto the measure, and it is unlikely right now to pass the House of Representatives, which on Wednesday blocked a vote on the matter.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46561520

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16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The US Senate has voted to withdraw US military aid for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen and to blame the kingdom's crown prince for the murder of a journalist.

 President Trump has vowed to veto the measure, and it is unlikely right now to pass the House of Representatives, which on Wednesday blocked a vote on the matter.

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46561520

So what you're saying is that Trump is setting himself up for a fall when the Democrats get into the House and revote on the issue. Oh yeah, genius level play that. :rolleyes: 

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2 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

So what you're saying is that Trump is setting himself up for a fall when the Democrats get into the House and revote on the issue. Oh yeah, genius level play that. :rolleyes: 

Smartest man in the USA. Just ask him.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Smartest man in the USA. Just ask him.

Belief me.

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15 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:
15 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The US Senate has voted to withdraw US military aid for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen and to blame the kingdom's crown prince for the murder of a journalist.

 President Trump has vowed to veto the measure, and it is unlikely right now to pass the House of Representatives, which on Wednesday blocked a vote on the matter.

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46561520

So what you're saying is that Trump is setting himself up for a fall when the Democrats get into the House and revote on the issue. Oh yeah, genius level play that. :rolleyes: 

He will ignore the fact that the Republican Senate did this and simply blame the Democrats in the House.

Look for the Faithful to parrot this.

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4 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

He will ignore the fact that the Republican Senate did this and simply blame the Democrats in the House.

Look for the Faithful to parrot this.

An interesting thought exercise is what if he is re-elected in 2020 (shudder) and the D's still own the house and gains in the senate.  A part of me thinks he tells his base to fuck off and pivots to the D's for some love.  He is a narcissist to the core, and his affiliation has always been much more left than this charade of being GOP.  I think he will do whatever he needs to to attempt to cement some legacy that is not being a laughing stock and he will have zero problem throwing the GOP and his deplorables under the bus in order to get some positive attention.  Just saying.

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Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

An interesting thought exercise is what if he is re-elected in 2020 (shudder) and the D's still own the house and gains in the senate.  A part of me thinks he tells his base to fuck off and pivots to the D's for some love.  He is a narcissist to the core, and his affiliation has always been much more left than this charade of being GOP.  I think he will do whatever he needs to to attempt to cement some legacy that is not being a laughing stock and he will have zero problem throwing the GOP and his deplorables under the bus in order to get some positive attention.  Just saying.

That would be fun to watch. 

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54 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

An interesting thought exercise is what if he is re-elected in 2020 (shudder) and the D's still own the house and gains in the senate.  A part of me thinks he tells his base to fuck off and pivots to the D's for some love.  He is a narcissist to the core, and his affiliation has always been much more left than this charade of being GOP.  I think he will do whatever he needs to to attempt to cement some legacy that is not being a laughing stock and he will have zero problem throwing the GOP and his deplorables under the bus in order to get some positive attention.  Just saying.

Wouldn't be the first time he switched parties.

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On 12/13/2018 at 2:46 AM, dogballs Tom said:

 

Exactly the question it raises. And the reason for two question marks, I suspect.

But I could be wrong. Why did you ask that question at the end, and did you just double click the question mark button?

I honestly haven't the slightest idea why you are having a problem with that. 

 

 Is the meaning of double quotation mark confusing to anyone else?? 

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6 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That would be fun to watch. 

It would, but the idea of a malignant narcissist fixated on gaining the status of great POTUS involves risk. Key to becoming one of the Great POTUSes is winning a war. Hence the earnest declarations that Reagan won the cold war all by his lonesome. 

 The best thing about Trump is he seems to know, at least subliminally, that he's faking it. He's not out to save the world, he's out to find some way to take whatever money he can make from this gig and run. He's not like George the Dumber or a Wilson. Game show hosts seldom seek great crusades to "save the world".    

 

 

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Not to me, but then I have the advantage of Team D Ranger at the ready.  Feel free to quote or question me at will 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Not to me, but then I have the advantage of Team D Ranger at the ready.  Feel free to quote or question me at will 

  Could it be that dogballs?? desperately wishes to be confused?  

 

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17 minutes ago, Mark K said:
On 12/13/2018 at 5:46 AM, dogballs Tom said:

 

Exactly the question it raises. And the reason for two question marks, I suspect.

But I could be wrong. Why did you ask that question at the end, and did you just double click the question mark button?

I honestly haven't the slightest idea why you are having a problem with that. 

Answering your question doesn't indicate a problem. It indicates an answer.

On 12/9/2018 at 2:27 PM, Mark K said:

  I would argue, but not publicly, that the KSA has fucked itself pretty good already. They have made themselves social pariahs in the world's community, and with MbS's big plans of "Doha in the Desert" modernization economic model now dead as a beaver hat and support for killing every Shia in Yemen dropping faster than Putin's zipper when Trump walks in the room...all for one B-list pundit?? 

I honestly haven't the slightest idea why you are having a problem with the fact that I seem to agree with you that doing all that "for one B-list pundit" is, well, inexplicable.

That's how it seems to me and why I asked if you have a better explanation than wanting to kill a relatively insignificant pundit. Do you?

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17 minutes ago, Mark K said:

How about this: dogballs?? 

Well everyone knows using the double ?? is an aggressive ending and an implied attack on the recipient. Thus is started the never ending round of clarifications bolstered  by the entire library of your previous posts.  enjoy??

edit: Back to this subject - Trump's cash flow from the Russians has to be tough to get with all the scrutiny it's receiving thus leaving the Prince as the best source of cash on hand.  Pissing off MbS would put a severe crimp in his $$ options. 

Lastly, since I recently wrote "dogballs" as a euphemism for guns in another thread it was perceived as an insult by Tom thus bringing in the entire Team D Ranger and it's litany of  opinions on gun control which are evidently known to Tom much more than any Team member.  It never ends.

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