Multihauler

F7 Folding Trimaran...This is interesting

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Looks like multihulls direct is rebranding....

So long as there is a license fee being paid somewhere I don't see a problem...

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If only that were the case. Watch this space.

 

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2 hours ago, Multihauler said:

.... Ian Farrier, and the contact address is in the Philippines. ...

Actually they have the same address and contact phone number as multihulls direct.

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46 minutes ago, nyker said:

And the logo looks like it has been copied straight from Ian's F-45 http://www.multihullsdirect.com/f-45.html

 

Wasn't Ian knocking out a bunch of tooling for  Multihullsdirect to use to speed up production, before he passed.

I'm guessing that MHD have a bunch of money tied up in the f22 tooling and and have been cut off at the knees by Farriers replacement.

The Gunboat G4 morphed into the DNA F4  . Any repercussions there?

This is going to be interesting.  POPCORN.

 

After a quick look at the F-BOAT web page  I must ask "has there been a bit of history re writing going on with the news pages"? MultihullsDirect references to the F-22 seem to have  mostly disappeared.

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19 minutes ago, overlay said:

After a quick look at the F-BOAT web page  I must ask "has there been a bit of history re writing going on with the news pages"? MultihullsDirect references to the F-22 seem to have  mostly disappeared.

Looking at older copies of the website, I don't see anything missing:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180115232040/http://www.f-boat.com:80/recentnews.html

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Well the price is good let’s see how this pans out.  It does say there is some sort of new beam “ The Latest Beams  Marine grade aluminum struts have pivot points integrated, metal brackets are eliminated - lighter and stronger.”

Don’t know what that means, good or bad.  Need to see a real one.   

I wonder... f-boat is only listing F22S and R models for sale but the original plan for a 60k  base F22 doesn’t exist.  Then they said they are not sure if it’s worth building in US.  Then we see fboat come out with basically a base f22 under 60k...  I hope they are working together but that might be optimistic of me

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Wow

- 50k exworks with dacron main+jib and torqueedo ?

Price is almost too good to be true. But on the other hand, MHD has proven production history in fboats, has the facilities and has at least some molds. Not vaporware. Would it be accurate to say that MHD has built more Fboats than Farrier Marine?

- the branding seems almost trolling and someone is extremely pissed off with Farrier marine, seems they WANT to get sued

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looking more carefully, what about the slogan: 

IT’S  AN  F BOAT 
A TRULY GREEN SOLUTION 
"JUST ADD WATER"

wtf is that???

this is so weird that maybe someone is trolling MHD instead??

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15 minutes ago, sail(plane) said:

looking more carefully, what about the slogan: 

IT’S  AN  F BOAT 
A TRULY GREEN SOLUTION 
"JUST ADD WATER"

wtf is that???

this is so weird that maybe someone is trolling MHD instead??

Doff the tinfoil headgear... patience... the truth will out...

Save the conspiracy theories for where they matter and are much more likely true:
- collusion in governance, deep-state, Bildebergers, etc...
- international banking and finance: BIS, World Bank, Euro-anything...
- alien coverups...

"green sailboats" -  blunted said it best on the c-class thread:

It should not be the job of a class to "save the world". If you are seriously concerned about carbon consumption by sailing, stop sailing, stop driving to regattas, stop sending out tons of coach boats, stop dropping shit in the water at the marina, stop building marinas, stop building boats, stop using gas guzzlers for RC boats, stop buying beer for sailing days. Well you see where that goes pretty quickly, you'll end up at home in your Yurt wrapped in an unbleached alpaca hair blanket sipping tea dreaming about how fun it used to be to sail before being consumed by guilt.

b2b

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6 hours ago, Multihauler said:

New F7 folding trimaran announced...

http://www.fboat.com/

(not http://www.f-boat.com/)

No mention of Ian Farrier, and the contact address is in the Philippines.

3E097135-930F-4DE5-B2A9-E9F472B2625B.png

Looks like the F-22 to me. ;-)

-MH

The render is not even a render, it´s a photoshopped previous render

look at this; or the withe painting with an F in the float

image.png.92658c5397342f7a67084f118b38d449.png

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14 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

Doff the tinfoil headgear... patience... the truth will out...

Save the conspiracy theories for where they matter and are much more likely true:
- collusion in governance, deep-state, Bildebergers, etc...
- international banking and finance: BIS, World Bank, Euro-anything...
- alien coverups...

"green sailboats" -  blunted said it best on the c-class thread:

b2b

but but I love conspiracy theories

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A compelling market statement:

“The F 7 is truly the world’s best value in a 7 meter F boat  ...

$49,977 sails & motor incl. all prices in USD...

We will beat any competitive quote supplied for any other similar production trimaran available worldwide”

 

Given some additional credibility by

The  Multihulls Direct team have built and delivered more than 40 Farrier designs”

 

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4 hours ago, Dead air said:

Looks like multihulls direct is rebranding....

So long as there is a license fee being paid somewhere I don't see a problem...

Absent a contract specifying return of molds or molds are not to be copied, I don't see a valid legal claim.

Did Ian have any active patents?  Maybe that's the reason for the "improved" beams.

 

One can only hope that Daedalus builds a decent boat and feels the need to compete on price.  Would be amazing to get an F22 for $50k ex North Carolina.

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49 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

Absent a contract specifying return of molds or molds are not to be copied, I don't see a valid legal claim.

Did Ian have any active patents?  Maybe that's the reason for the "improved" beams.

 

One can only hope that Daedalus builds a decent boat and feels the need to compete on price.  Would be amazing to get an F22 for $50k ex North Carolina.

+1  I think if they could get to the 50k mark for a bare bones sail-able boat (Main, Jib, no interior, no motor, and basic trailer) I think folks would line up!  Then you could add all the extra crap you wanted like cushions, head, spin, motor, etc.  

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5 hours ago, nyker said:

Actually they have the same address and contact phone number as multihulls direct.

MultiHullsDriect owns the website too. 

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To me it seems like anything that makes anything "green"er is good. "Better is good".

That said, seems like a Torqueedo has other features that make it appealing on a sailboat anyway.

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The “new beams” language is a direct snag from the f22 site quoting the gen three farrier beams.

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Nice factory photos now posted online. 

http://www.fboat.com/factory.html

At US$50k or A$70k this is a bargain and definitely some I got to think closely about.

The build quality on the F-85SR that was built by MHD was exceptional and I have no doubt the F7 would be the same. 

 

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MHD is much better at boatbuilding than at website building. Which is good! This just got 10x more interesting

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V e r y  I n t e r e s t I n g .

So the questions are....

1/ what did Deadarse buy. Or rather what did the Farrier estate sell?

2/what deals verbal or otherwise were made between Ian and MHD.

Time to lawyer up I suspect.

MHD are boatbuilders, fuck knows what Deadarse are.

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4 hours ago, gthomas72 said:

Nice factory photos now posted online. 

http://www.fboat.com/factory.html

At US$50k or A$70k this is a bargain and definitely some I got to think closely about.

The build quality on the F-85SR that was built by MHD was exceptional and I have no doubt the F7 would be the same. 

 

I wonder how did they stick a reverse bow on an existing hull design (and molds?). If done right, it would impact the hull lines pretty far back, am I right?

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Easy, just cut the existing bottom along the mid seam, widen it by 50mm and make the bow bottom section longer to cope with the now gap, the top section remains the same and voila you have a reverse bow. Make new hull molds ( unlike Farrier there's no liners on the inside ), at that point there's no propriety licencing as its a new design.

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7 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

MHD is much better at boatbuilding than at website building. Which is good! This just got 10x more interesting

Don't get too excited.  No trailer and you have to go there and sail it away or arrange shipping.  Suspect that when you could actually get it here in USA it'd be closer to $65K in a ready to sail condition. 

Like most of these cabin mini tri's they are heavy and under canvassed-so you have some issues in light wind.  Just as a comparison, my 30K 5.8 meter tri (about 4 feet shorter) is half the weight, has a mast that is just a little shorter, has just a little less canvas...but no accommodations to speak of.  The F7 would make a better camper cruiser, no doubt.  But I'd get to the campground quicker and rent a luxury suite with the $25K I saved.

For me, the windows are just something else to weaken and need maintenance...my F242 windows leaked and the plexiglass turned foggy with microscratches within a couple years.  But that's me...YMMV.

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4 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

I wonder how did they stick a reverse bow on an existing hull design (and molds?). If done right, it would impact the hull lines pretty far back, am I right?

That is not nessary I made revers bows on my F32 and I only alterd some in the front section.

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2 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Don't get too excited.  No trailer and you have to go there and sail it away or arrange shipping.  Suspect that when you could actually get it here in USA it'd be closer to $65K in a ready to sail condition. 

$15k for a trailer and container shipping to US?  I think two fit in a container.

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1 hour ago, mowgli said:

That is not nessary I made revers bows on my F32 and I only alterd some in the front section.

Like this one?

AD2F68A5-DCDA-404B-8330-43B23D053CA5.jpeg

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3 hours ago, eastern motors said:

$15k for a trailer and container shipping to US?  I think two fit in a container.

I was quoted 3800 shipping to the US. Didn't include a trailer, though...

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I'm sure there is background politics going on but I think MHD have misplayed this a little.  Even if they couldn't come to terms with the licence holders to build the farrier designs they've built for the last X years.

Some good webdesign and copy writing with phrases like "Having built over 40 Ian Farrier designed trimarans".  "A new design based open the lessons learnt working with Ian Farrier" and smart use of Adwords etc could have cut down on 90% of the angst and got them at least as much interest.

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54 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

I'm sure there is background politics going on but I think MHD have misplayed this a little.  Even if they couldn't come to terms with the licence holders to build the farrier designs they've built for the last X years.

Some good webdesign and copy writing with phrases like "Having built over 40 Ian Farrier designed trimarans".  "A new design based open the lessons learnt working with Ian Farrier" and smart use of Adwords etc could have cut down on 90% of the angst and got them at least as much interest.

Yeah, using the domain name fboat.com seems to be asking for conflict.  Registered at GoDaddy in November, 2017 with contact info in Lahaina, Hawaii.  The WayBack Machine (Internet Archive) has captures dating back to 2002 but is choking right now at displaying any of them.  At one point I saw a notice that the domain was for sale last year for ~$600:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/fboat.com
http://web.archive.org/web/20170921081517/http://fboat.com/

Not terribly impressed with the Daedalus "Press Release Farrirer International - 6 November 2018" for several reasons.  Seems light on gravitas and professionalism, somehow...

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3 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

I'm sure there is background politics going on but I think MHD have misplayed this a little.  Even if they couldn't come to terms with the licence holders to build the farrier designs they've built for the last X years.

Some good webdesign and copy writing with phrases like "Having built over 40 Ian Farrier designed trimarans".  "A new design based open the lessons learnt working with Ian Farrier" and smart use of Adwords etc could have cut down on 90% of the angst and got them at least as much interest.

I can't wait to see what creature comes out the "V-birth" of this development.

Capture.JPG

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4 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

Not terribly impressed with the Daedalus "Press Release Farrirer International - 6 November 2018" for several reasons.  Seems light on gravitas and professionalism, somehow...

That’s a very nice way to say “reads like it was written by a pissed off 13 year old”.

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On the websites of both builders do you think you could hire a web developer?  For the price of one of those harken winches they could easily have a pretty nice website.   

 

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I wonder why they are sticking with dacron as the "give away" sails with this offering.  Perhaps just so they can upcharge if you want mylar.  Nothing wrong with dacron, don't get me wrong...just a little heavier handling and certainly will last longer.  But the Philippines has lots of sail manufactories; they could do better (Hyde is there for example).

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5 hours ago, Defy said:

image.thumb.png.caca9993e45070c58e955bfdf944b69d.png

 

Did it say sold before?

I didn’t notice that earlier.

these guys have a track record of delivering on some pretty big projects.

Daedulas aspire to (from their web page)  building a boat to cicumnavigate “fossil fuel free “.

pretty sure RKJ did that in a famous race many years ago  :)

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On 11/8/2018 at 8:27 PM, mowgli said:

That is not nessary I made revers bows on my F32 and I only alterd some in the front section.

Looking at the main hull bow, it looks like they kept the holes for the bow pole and trailer winch in the original position, as they are now quite far back. Seems to me that MM just added some foam for a sacrificial bow.

img-9347_orig.jpg

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23 minutes ago, teamvmg said:

Best way that I know to make a boat tack slower! [Apart from having me helm it!]

Not really. On these boats, when sailing to windward, the waterline is a loooong way back from the bow. 

 

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2 hours ago, teamvmg said:

Best way that I know to make a boat tack slower! [Apart from having me helm it!]

I have no problem at all with tacking, if you look at my blog you can see that the bow is out of the water.

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I guess this answers the question about who owns the molds in MHD or didnt get paid for them or something complicated?

Boat building just keeps the entertainment coming and has for its whole history.

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Beyond all the legal shenanigans - Take a close look at the interior pic before placing a deposit...

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Pretty much what you would expect without a liner. I hate liners. Looks like it might actually qualify  for the "entry level" description.

 

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yeah but the ring frame is seriously cut back vs F22 plan, the connection at the seats, where that ring frame is supposed to be laminated in appears to have a gap (aka not attached) the edge of said seat portside looks to have a pretty natty 'sander gone awry' mark on the edge of it, etc. etc.

Bad finish, I get, but cutting back the main structural frame and not having it laminated as per the build book (if my eyes don't deceive me) is risky.

Of course, my eyes may deceive me from a zoom in on a single picture....so judge for yourself and if the builder wants to publish more close ups of their workmanship that is up to them.

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OK thanks. I don’t have the benefit of the plan book in front of me. Sounds like you have built one so would know. Probably a bad idea to order any boat based on a few photos.

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6 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

yeah but the ring frame is seriously cut back vs F22 plan, the connection at the seats, where that ring frame is supposed to be laminated in appears to have a gap (aka not attached) the edge of said seat portside looks to have a pretty natty 'sander gone awry' mark on the edge of it, etc. etc.

Bad finish, I get, but cutting back the main structural frame and not having it laminated as per the build book (if my eyes don't deceive me) is risky.

Of course, my eyes may deceive me from a zoom in on a single picture....so judge for yourself and if the builder wants to publish more close ups of their workmanship that is up to them.

I bet that is one of Ian's upgrades because what they have done is consistent with the way this is treated in the F85SR plans.

This just gives a bit more space into the fwd berth.

The ring frame is quite small near the seats however it is strengthened with  a 50mm wide flange. 

That pic looks like this is done and they have missed painting under the flange which makes it look like a gap.

Also the flange is supposed to be on the fwd side of the ring frame. Looking at pics on the Farrier Marine site the ring frame looks the same with the exception of the flange being on the fwd side of the frame. Could they have put the frame in the other way around? I think the only diff would be esthetics.

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Picture is worth a thousand words. From F7 site and a shot from my visit to factory early on in the F-22 days and meeting Ian and a couple shots from the FM website. Flange seems on correct side in F-7 shot. The lack of paint thought might simply be shadowed by flange.

img-9375.jpg

ForwardBunk.jpg

135Interior.jpg

FRInterior.jpg

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Thanks for aiding my bad eyes.  Pics support my statement - Farrier, the flange is fully bonded to the hull.  F7, no bonding to the hull and thus the gap.  Also looks like the aluminum struts on F7 are mounted by bolted on stubs to the hull rather than molded.  Overall, won't speak to legal issues but looks suspiciously like use of Farrier F22 plans.

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No such thing as a free lunch.

You get what you pay for.

Any other good sayings?

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3 hours ago, plywoodboy said:

No such thing as a free lunch.

You get what you pay for.

Any other good sayings?

Apart from below;-

The difference between adversity and adventure is attitude.

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8 hours ago, The Mad Hatter said:

Apart from below;-

The difference between adversity and adventure is attitude.

Plus one

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