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North 3Di vs Quantum Fusion M 9000

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there is almost no doubt. have used both. north is light years ahead in terms of technology.

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And North isn't run by a bunch of right wing whackos!

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I would agree that North is ahead regarding cloth technology, but does it really matter for the average joe?  For the high end teams that are showing up with new sails or maxing out buttons, i would think they are more worried about shape.  Q partnering with Doyle seems to be doing really well in the mini maxi arena.  Most of the big one-design classes are limited and cant use 3di.   I would look at other similar boats in your area and see what they have had success with.

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maybe it depends on the boat but I was disappointed with the North design of the sails and immediately replaced them with Quantum. now I am on my second set of Q for this boat

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If you didn't like the North Design, then change your loft. You need a guy/gal who can design to what you need! Design has not a lot to do with the cloth.

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Great designs require great material to prevent distortion and  the loss of the design shape. Stabilizing the material will keep the the foil efficient. If you create a great design and the material is not capable of holding the shape then the design is lost.

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16 minutes ago, Kevlar Edge said:

Great designs require great material to prevent distortion and  the loss of the design shape. Stabilizing the material will keep the the foil efficient. If you create a great design and the material is not capable of holding the shape then the design is lost.

That sums it up pretty well. And as to Greyhound’s issue, perhaps that particular sailmaker isn’t all that great. At least for now, I don’t think anything beats 3di, but if it’s designed shitty, at least it’ll be remarkably dependable to be shitty for quite a while!  :D

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My favorite is a local guy who has a UK loft, he comes and measures your boat, builds the sails, and then goes out with you to make it go fast. does all the repair work as well.  His sails last a long time. Customer service wins out over material unless you are a gran prix program.  the North guy might come and introduce himself.

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24 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

My favorite is a local guy who has a UK loft, he comes and measures your boat, builds the sails, and then goes out with you to make it go fast. does all the repair work as well.  His sails last a long time. Customer service wins out over material unless you are a gran prix program.  the North guy might come and introduce himself.

I just ordered a North 3Di dacron main for my boat (J/32) - the North guy came out and measured the boat and will go out on the boat.

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6 hours ago, slap said:

I just ordered a North 3Di dacron main for my boat (J/32) - the North guy came out and measured the boat and will go out on the boat.

Sorry, was not knocking North (well except here) the point was who provides the best service in your area.  Sometimes it is a local loft with out a national name. 

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6 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Sorry, was not knocking North (well except here) the point was who provides the best service in your area.  Sometimes it is a local loft with out a national name. 

I’d agree that that is almost always the correct answer. Strict one designs, and high end Grand Prix programs being the exception. It’s hard to beat good, local service. 

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19 hours ago, Francisco Laguna said:

I would agree that North is ahead regarding cloth technology, but does it really matter for the average joe?  

I’m about as average sailor as there is and went through this same process about 2 years ago and ultimately decided to go 3di route - originally because we have a local loft and we thought the product was worth the extra $.  Now I would say the product has exceeded our needs with our primary goal being durability/shape over time.  The sails still look new.  Shape is still near perfect and far better than we need.  The unexpected surprise was weight.  For us this means easier sail handling.  Also, For us the local loft has become far less important than having durable sails that are working great over time and barring catastrophic failure will last much longer than we had anticipated.   

Note photos from about a year ago.  

FFC5954C-7080-40B3-9CE0-4D6490DDE14E.jpeg

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On 11/2/2018 at 2:35 PM, woahboy said:

And North isn't run by a bunch of right wing whackos!

 North was owned by the late Terry Kohler, also a heavy right winger FYI. That being said, I have a big issue buying sails from a company that is owned by people who run a vast pyramid scheme.   In addition, 3di is vastly superior to fusion M.  I’ve used both, and there is no comparison in terms of shape holding.  

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On 11/2/2018 at 10:10 PM, slap said:

I just ordered a North 3Di dacron main for my boat (J/32) - the North guy came out and measured the boat and will go out on the boat.

Got mine this summer for similar sized boat and it's a really good sail for the price.

It's a little bit of a pain to fold since it's crazy stiff, but the shape is great and i like it overall so far.

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The huge difference between 3Di and all other high modulus sail fabrics is the complete lack of Mylar film. Mylar is the demon seed that leads to shape changes from shrinkage and delam, the two most common reasons sails become unusable. 

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I was convinced to buy a 3di main for the boat this year. It's actually similar in weight to the carbon main it replaces, but is bulletproof in all conditions, maintains its shape, and if anything is harder to power up in light stuff. that said, it's an investment I'm glad I made and would make again in a heartbeat.

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I like the 3di, except in light stuff, especially in sloppy water.  The 3di seems so stiff in those conditions, that it doesn't work so hot.  But 3di is awesome when fully pressurized to hold the shape.  If I had lots of expendable cash I'd have all 3di except for the lightest genoa.

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In regards to the stiffness-  Can these sails be flaked and stored in bags during the off season or does it damage them? Do they need to be rolled?

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14 minutes ago, Ajax said:

In regards to the stiffness-  Can these sails be flaked and stored in bags during the off season or does it damage them? Do they need to be rolled?

Always roll'em.    Always

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That sail looks like it has been rolled up tight with a vertical fold in it.

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20 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

That sail looks like it has been rolled up tight with a vertical fold in it.

Then left in the hot sun to bake.

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21 hours ago, Ajax said:

In regards to the stiffness-  Can these sails be flaked and stored in bags during the off season or does it damage them? Do they need to be rolled?

While storing rolled is preferred only for less fold marks/creases,  they can be stored flaked/folded with no damage..   

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Check the relative weight. One of those sails is going to be >20% heavier than the other.

   

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On 11/8/2018 at 1:43 AM, ropetrick said:

Then left in the hot sun to bake.

with full halliard tension...

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Local (SD) North loft quote for a new Nordac #1 was almost a grand less than anyone else's. I haven't pulled the trigger because I am struggling with the decision: Roller furling vs. keeping it clean for the three or four times a year I might race with it. Currently just using a furling #3 for short handed day sailing. Any comments or recommendations from the brain trust? Boat is a First 40.7. 

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A #1 that you want for fully crewed racing is probably different than what you want for short handed sailing.  Our #1 is a deck sweeper and I don't like cruising with it because I don't want to run forward to skirt on every tack.  Our #2 is our cruising/short handed racing sail and has a higher clew that allows us to avoid skirting and instead just hit the lifelines to get it to pop over.

We do about 20-25 races per year and 2 weeks of cruising.

Our #1 is too large to fit if we installed a furler (with the drum installed), the #2 leaves the possibility open.

Our #3 is also a deck sweeper, so when cruising I bring the #2 and #4.  When racing I bring the #1 and #3 (and the #4 if the forecast is for winds above 20 knots).

 

 

 

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Appreciate your insight confirming some of our impressions vis a vis sail selection for different purposes but what I'm after is an opinion of Nordac # 1 on a furler. Due to its stiffness will it work? Can it do double duty as a sometime racing sail or is that expecting too much? I guess the correct answer is to huddle with the pros at North and get their take. I'm sure they wouldn't recommend something that wouldn't work. They have too much invested in their reputations to push the envelope where it shouldn't go. 

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15 hours ago, kinardly said:

Appreciate your insight confirming some of our impressions vis a vis sail selection for different purposes but what I'm after is an opinion of Nordac # 1 on a furler. Due to its stiffness will it work? Can it do double duty as a sometime racing sail or is that expecting too much? I guess the correct answer is to huddle with the pros at North and get their take. I'm sure they wouldn't recommend something that wouldn't work. They have too much invested in their reputations to push the envelope where it shouldn't go. 

It’s all about how much racing will you do? How much cruising will you do? Will you set an upper wind limit for racing? Will you roller reef the sail? As for the stiffness it is designed first and foremost as a cruising sail, yes it is stiffer than cross cut Dacron and the first few furls might be stiff but in medium to larger boats it is a cruising sail and a club race sail in medium to small boats where loads and wear are lower. We race a Sunfast 3600 offshore and have a 3di Nordac J3+reef for use as a redundancy sail, deliveries, training, solo racing or if we are looking at a breezy upwind leg and we want to reduce the hours on our 780 3di endurance J2+reef

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On 11/14/2018 at 12:29 PM, kinardly said:

Appreciate your insight confirming some of our impressions vis a vis sail selection for different purposes but what I'm after is an opinion of Nordac # 1 on a furler. Due to its stiffness will it work? Can it do double duty as a sometime racing sail or is that expecting too much? I guess the correct answer is to huddle with the pros at North and get their take. I'm sure they wouldn't recommend something that wouldn't work. They have too much invested in their reputations to push the envelope where it shouldn't go. 

the North Nordac page shows it on a furler. I think you could use it for casual racing. It looks pretty good.

NORDAC_webpix2.jpg

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1 hour ago, kinardly said:

Zackly what I was hoping to learn. Thanks, guys.

It works great as an in-between sail. It's the price of a dacron sail with the construction of a race sail. I've seen 3Di Nordac on small boats where the sail is light and pliable (been tested on J22's and 5o5's), and I've seen mainsails for 50-foot cruising boats where the sail is stiffer. The stiffness depends on the size and avg windspeed you are using the sail in. And yes go sit down and talk, the 3Di Nordac is an excellent thing.

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