badlatitude

Oops! Wisconsin Paid $4.5 Billion So Chinese Workers Could Take American Jobs

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5 hours ago, Olsonist said:

 

image.png.13f6ebeb4b4a40d0454b1bb15d2b5006.png

That's probably the most physical labour Trump has done in his life.

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15 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's probably the most physical labour Trump has done in his life. 

He's always shoveling the shit.

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26 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's probably the most physical labour Trump has done in his life.

Someone probably broke the ground for him so he wouldn’t exert himself.

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

The water to serve Foxconn was being 

However, in the big picture:  Yeah, molecules of H2O tend to stick around.  But useful water, unpolluted water, water not already needed for other purposes,  not so much.  Then it becomes the very definition of a limited resource and Foxconn finagled their way into a large share of that limited resource to the detriment of many others. 

As for actual disappearing water  More reading:  Look up the Ogallala aquifer and get back to us.  

Being a moron suits you. Foxconn water loss was evaporation. All that evaporation would have stayed in the Great Lakes basin. But , stick to your narrative.........

 

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4 minutes ago, Lark said:

It looks like dry manure, not Kenosha dirt.   

Stunt dirt.

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Warpedbird is defending it.

Tells me all I need to know about it.

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Warpedbird is defending it.

Tells me all I need to know about it.

I am just correcting misperceptions.

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@warbird  

It looks like Wisconsin is unable to produce high tech flat screens.   They may import them from Mexico and assemble them.   Better for the lake at least.  Much of the construction is being done by Wisconsin, just in case.    Meanwhile the Milwaukee offices are being sublet.   

https://apple.news/AaSYoBZY3R122mK0b7RfVXA

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On 4/10/2019 at 8:49 AM, Lark said:

@warbird  

It looks like Wisconsin is unable to produce high tech flat screens.   They may import them from Mexico and assemble them.   Better for the lake at least.  Much of the construction is being done by Wisconsin, just in case.    Meanwhile the Milwaukee offices are being sublet.   

https://apple.news/AaSYoBZY3R122mK0b7RfVXA

.....and the $billion$ won't be paid.....

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6 minutes ago, warbird said:

.....and the $billion$ won't be paid.....

Glad to see the Wisconsin voters figured out Scott was a charlatan and tossed him out on his ass.

  • Like 2

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4 minutes ago, warbird said:

.....and the $billion$ won't be paid.....

How much has Wisconsin given away so far?    How much has it spent in redevelopment?    How many people lost their land to imminent domain?    Compensation does not equate to choice.   

In June, the Mount Pleasant Village Board first used the term “blighted,” as it is defined in the Wisconsin State Legislature’s Blight Elimination and Slum Clearance Act, in order to move ahead with the redevelopment plan. They said that a majority of the Foxconn project area was blighted in order to use eminent domain to seize properties within the development area.   

https://shepherdexpress.com/news/daily-dose/foxconn-land-acquisitions-almost-complete/

$190 million has already been spent by the county.

https://journaltimes.com/local-foxconn-project-estimates-increase-by-million/article_35fbbbf0-011f-5c17-9ea8-6e3a041ae6eb.html

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11 minutes ago, warbird said:

.....and the $billion$ won't be paid.....

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lark said:

 

$190 million has already been spent by the county.

 

But that's not even 20% of a billion.  Chump change for a powerhouse like Wisconsin to throw in the trash.  I'm sure they don't need that for anything else.  

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24 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

 

But that's not even 20% of a billion.  Chump change for a powerhouse like Wisconsin to throw in the trash.  I'm sure they don't need that for anything else.  

I am guessing that area will be 50-75% developed in 5 years with industry that adds to tax revenue and takes almost nothing out of the school system.

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14 minutes ago, warbird said:

I am guessing that area will be 50-75% developed in 5 years with industry that adds to tax revenue and takes almost nothing out of the school system.

I thought the goal was to have industry pay no taxes?

-DSK

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13 minutes ago, warbird said:

I am guessing that area will be 50-75% developed in 5 years with industry that adds to tax revenue and takes almost nothing out of the school system.

Great guess, you've clearly done the research on how successful these mega-subsidies are time and time again.

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21 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great guess, you've clearly done the research on how successful these mega-subsidies are time and time again.

It seems pretty clear the WI $million$ was tied to employment numbers so " no employment bench mark, no $". On the other hand, the site sits on major transportation access. Interstate, rail and air.  That region has experienced phenomenal growth  in the last decade for that very reason. There is a pool of labor from  northern IL and southeast WI.

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8 minutes ago, warbird said:

It seems pretty clear the WI $million$ was tied to employment numbers so " no employment bench mark, no $". On the other hand, the site sits on major transportation access. Interstate, rail and air.  That region has experienced phenomenal growth  in the last decade for that very reason. There is a pool of labor from  northern IL and southeast WI.

Gee, the way you say that, it almost sounds like you'd be in favor of using tax money to improve infrastructure

Socialist!!

Next you'll be saying "why can't we have an education system that brings young people into the work force better prepared"

-DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gee, the way you say that, it almost sounds like you'd be in favor of using tax money to improve infrastructure

Socialist!!

Next you'll be saying "why can't we have an education system that brings young people into the work force better prepared"

-DSK

Or "why can't we have good public health care in this country?"

Nah, that's going too far.

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45 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gee, the way you say that, it almost sounds like you'd be in favor of using tax money to improve infrastructure

Socialist!!

Next you'll be saying "why can't we have an education system that brings young people into the work force better prepared"

-DSK

Gee, the way you respond makes it seem you are sad that WI protected a $4,5bil incentive with performance measures that protected WI  taxpayers. This is after all a discussion on how WI did NOT pay $4.5 billion, right?

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great guess, you've clearly done the research on how successful these mega-subsidies are time and time again.

What mega subsidy, the $4.5 Bil is off the table.

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On 11/6/2018 at 3:10 PM, Olsonist said:

Are Wisconsin Republicans going to complain about the $4.5B or are they going to silently take it up the ass?

The sad part is so many Americans have taken it up the ass for so long, they don't even notice another prick screwing them. 

And you wonder why the only people willing to do anything to come to this country anymore are from "shithole" countries.

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

It seems pretty clear the WI $million$ was tied to employment numbers so " no employment bench mark, no $". On the other hand, the site sits on major transportation access. Interstate, rail and air.  That region has experienced phenomenal growth  in the last decade for that very reason. There is a pool of labor from  northern IL and southeast WI.

So you like it when big government throws people out of their homes for purely economic development reasons, increasing the power of Eminent Domain significantly in the process, and then spends hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to win the reward of subsidizing a huge company to the tune of billions of dollars of foregone tax receipts and hundreds of millions in infrastructure improvements that ANY OTHER COMPANY coming to town would have to pay for.  Astonishing that an avowed conservative would, with one statement, show his support for

1) huge, money-hemorrhaging government;

2)  the unbridalled expansion of Eminent Domain power, and

3)  Significantly negative and unequal treatment of small, domestic companies compared to huge, foreign-subsized megacorp.

Are you sure you're not a left winger?

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15 minutes ago, warbird said:

What mega subsidy, the $4.5 Bil is off the table.

And why did that happen?  How did Walker fuck it up so bad to blow hundreds of millions without even getting the prize he so dreamt of?  Is that a good number to shoot for when Republicans attempt to bring in E.D. projects - $190M per attempt?

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

Gee, the way you respond makes it seem you are sad that WI protected a $4,5bil incentive with performance measures that protected WI  taxpayers. This is after all a discussion on how WI did NOT pay $4.5 billion, right?

it's a great thing for wisconscin they are paying out less of the expensive, poor return, job creation subsidys you were defending earlier in the thread.

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The bird asserts that the region has experienced phenomenal growth in the past decade.  I truly wonder what his definition of phenomenal is.

If he means $12 an hour jobs at Amazon and Uline, or retail jobs at the factory outlet mall at highway 165 and I94, or retail jobs at Mars Cheese castle or the Brat Stop, or the fast food joints at highway 20 and I94, etc. I wouldhardly call that phenomenal growth. Certainly not quality growth.

But where are the family supporting jobs that were lost at American Motors, Snap-On Tools, Western Publishing, JI Case, Twin Disc, etc? Every day at 5pm you can see scores of cars with Illinois license plate making a beeline out of Johnson Wax corporate HQ heading back home to I’ll. Same for CaseIH.

I’ve lived in the “region” for close to 50 years and it remains a semi-depressed area with scattered pockets of growth.  

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20 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

The bird asserts that the region has experienced phenomenal growth in the past decade.  I truly wonder what his definition of phenomenal is.

If he means $12 an hour jobs at Amazon and Uline, or retail jobs at the factory outlet mall at highway 165 and I94, or retail jobs at Mars Cheese castle or the Brat Stop, or the fast food joints at highway 20 and I94, etc. I wouldhardly call that phenomenal growth. Certainly not quality growth.

But where are the family supporting jobs that were lost at American Motors, Snap-On Tools, Western Publishing, JI Case, Twin Disc, etc? Every day at 5pm you can see scores of cars with Illinois license plate making a beeline out of Johnson Wax corporate HQ heading back home to I’ll. Same for CaseIH.

I’ve lived in the “region” for close to 50 years and it remains a semi-depressed area with scattered pockets of growth.  

There are $12 /hrjobs and $40 /hr jobs at Amazon. Naturally the $12 is temp or no skill new hire. 

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

And why did that happen?  How did Walker fuck it up so bad to blow hundreds of millions without even getting the prize he so dreamt of?  Is that a good number to shoot for when Republicans attempt to bring in E.D. projects - $190M per attempt?

Have you been watching how most Chinese 'investing' is going on in the world?

 

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Have you been watching how most Chinese 'investing' is going on in the world?

 

Have Republicans?

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

And why did that happen?  How did Walker fuck it up so bad to 

Ehvers got elected.  (on the marijuana vote)

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26 minutes ago, warbird said:

Ehvers got elected.  (on the marijuana vote)

so, Wis is populated by a bunch of stoners?

Maybe, just maybe, folks looked around and decided good gov't was more important than union busting?

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59 minutes ago, warbird said:

Ehvers got elected.  (on the marijuana vote)

There is no “h” in Evers, and getting his name wrong is the least of your errors.

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30 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

There is no “h” in Evers, and getting his name wrong is the least of yor....

Ehvers will never ever (see that)be worth a fuck, he is a toadie for the teachers union and a waste of fresh air.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

so, Wis is populated by a bunch of stoners?

Maybe, just maybe, folks looked around and decided good gov't was more important than union busting?

Most counties voted against him, many 37-63 or worse. Two or three urban/college towns went 70 or 80 % his way. Despite that he won only a modest percent or less. The recall will not  have a pot referendum on the ballot.

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Gee, the way you say that, it almost sounds like you'd be in favor of using tax money to improve infrastructure

Socialist!!

Next you'll be saying "why can't we have an education system that brings young people into the work force better prepared"

-DSK

Obviously, we aren't spending enough money on teachers who fail competency tests.

 

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37 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Obviously, we aren't spending enough money

so what you are saying is tests are great evaluations of groups you don't like, and poor evaluations of groups you do?

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19 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

so what you are saying is tests are great evaluations of groups you don't like, and poor evaluations of groups you do?

Tests are a great indication of the failure of the teacher union and lefty  policies in the inner cities.

 

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LOL, I have no idea why warbird continues to try and revive a dead horse. The new Governor got taken in just like the old governor. When will people realize Terry Gou is a snake oil salesman?

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21 minutes ago, warbird said:

So, you just posted an article from 2018 that stated what the agreement forecasted.  What has actually happened since?

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15 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

So, you just posted an article from 2018 that stated what the agreement forecasted.  What has actually happened since?

Warbird is a NEW Republican. Happy for Crony Capitalism and the choosing of winners & losers.

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Warbird is a NEW Republican. Happy for Crony Capitalism and the choosing of winners & losers.

Warbird is an OLD idiot. He'll support anything the right wing proposes, no matter how antisocial or stupid.

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That's the conjoining of the new rightwing and the trolling geriatric incels. Propose something stupid that irritates people, then laugh at their outrage and pretend you didn't really mean it. Trump does it every day.

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32 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Another day, another chapter in the con that is Foxconn.

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More news about the con that is Foxconn and, as usual, it is not good.

“Study: Wisconsin's Foxconn deal could depress economic activity by 'tens of billions of dollars'”

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/study-wisconsin-s-foxconn-deal-could-depress-economic-activity-by/article_d5febe54-354d-50c9-ba85-7b7cc8749192.html

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6 minutes ago, warbird said:

Warbird, Nothing will make up for the boondoggle that Scott Walker and Foxconn brought to Wisconsin.if you haven't learned that by now, you are simply a tool. 

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2 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Warbird, Nothing will make up for the boondoggle that Scott Walker and Foxconn brought to Wisconsin.if you haven't learned that by now, you are simply a tool. 

What the bird chooses not to mention is that Foxconn missed its stated hiring goals in 2018 and as of July was on track to miss them again in 2019.

The “con” that is Foxconn.

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Scott Walker gave Foxconn $300 million for roads to non-existent plants. Now they have to raise taxes so the state can make road improvements. This is the crap Warbird stands behind.

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11 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

What the bird chooses not to mention is that Foxconn missed its stated hiring goals in 2018 and as of July was on track to miss them again 

....and state $ were entirely based on meeting those goals so WI still is NOT paying out $:lol::lol::lol:

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You must get awful tired tap dancing to make this look like a good deal. It never will be, you should stop now.

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52 minutes ago, warbird said:

....and state $ were entirely based on meeting those goals so WI still is NOT paying out $:lol::lol::lol:

this is why ditch diggers don't review contracts

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1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

Scott Walker gave Foxconn $300 million for roads to non-existent plants. Now they have to raise taxes so the state can make road improvements. This is the crap Warbird stands behind.

One of those hidden costs of this project is the road construction on I94 from the Milwaukee-Racine County line through Racine and into Kenosha County that has led to numerous accidents and several deaths.  Lanes in the construction zone are narrower than normal and shoulders do not exist in places. I drive to the Chicago area quite regularly.  I avoid the construction zone by taking surface streets.  Only adds a few minutes to the overall trip and given the accident rate in the construction zone I’m much safer.

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4 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

One of those hidden costs of this project is the road construction on I94 from the Milwaukee-Racine County line through Racine and into Kenosha County that has led to numerous accidents and several deaths.  Lanes in the construction zone are narrower than normal and shoulders do not exist in places. I drive to the Chicago area quite regularly.  I avoid the construction zone by taking surface streets.  Only adds a few minutes to the overall trip and given the accident rate in the construction zone I’m much safer.

Thanks, I enjoy hearing about the human cost as much as I hear about the financial cost/loss.

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2 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Scott Walker gave Foxconn $300 million for roads to non-existent plants. Now they have to raise taxes so the state can make road improvements. This is the crap Warbird stands behind.

The roads were due  for upgrade. The area is seeing an explosion of development. Kroger just anounced a new facility in the area. All providing jobs, taxes.:lol:

 

But,  stick with your narrative.....

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16 minutes ago, warbird said:

The roads were due  for upgrade. The area is seeing an explosion of development. Kroger just anounced a new facility in the area. All providing jobs, taxes.:lol:

 

But,  stick with your narrative.....

As long as you stick to yours: "FoxConn was a great deal for the people of Wisconsin"

 

 

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You know, it's interesting.  If the politicians had just kept their attention elsewhere, Foxconn still would have built facilities somewhere here in the US and benefited our population.  Without us spending billions to entice them.

GO TEAM TRUMP!

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35 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

As long as you stick to yours: "FoxConn was a great deal for the people of Wisconsin"

 

 

Only the bird would claim that a few warehouses and distribution facilities, all non-union and paying $12-$15/hour is an “explosion” of development.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

As long as you stick to yours: "FoxConn was a great deal for the people of Wisconsin"

 

 

Any company that locates to WI is a great deal for WI why the hate?

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14 minutes ago, warbird said:

Any company that locates to WI is a great deal for WI why the hate?

Because Wisconsin’s decision to use GOVT money to subsidize a private company raises the cost for all other municipalities. A fiscal conservative would understand this.

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29 minutes ago, warbird said:

Any company that locates to WI is a great deal for WI 

Really?  Have you read the WI/FoxConn development agreement?

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50 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Because Wisconsin’s decision to use GOVT money to subsidize a private company raises the cost for all other municipalities. A fiscal conservative would understand this.

 

36 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Really?  Have you read the WI/FoxConn development agreement?

The subsidies are largely based on employment targets. The top number  subsidy  ($13 billion?)  is granted base on 13000 jobs and over a period of 10 or more years and is in the form of property tax relief IIRC . In a period when unemployment was high, benefit payouts by the state were high. 13000 jobs equate to low end approximately $20 million  in income and sales tax per year but ignore all the other taxable activity 13000 people generate in housing, services and ancillary industry. Additionally, the construction phases add taxable activity to WI builders (part of the agreememt). Finally, the payout occurs to the state when the subsidies expire 10 or more years down the road and, along with the 13000 (however many?) jobs, the improved site is added to the tax rolls along with the other taxes (sales, business and use, etc) tp add to state coffers.

......but, stick with your narrative.....

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2 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Only the bird would claim that a few warehouses and distribution facilities, all non-union and paying $12-$15/hour is an “explosion” of development.

To be fair - that’s about the best out state Wisconsin can hope for these days.

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10 minutes ago, warbird said:

 

The subsidies are largely based on employment targets. The top number  subsidy  ($13 billion?)  is granted base on 13000 jobs and over a period of 10 or more years and is in the form of property tax relief IIRC . In a period when unemployment was high, benefit payouts by the state were high. 13000 jobs equate to low end approximately $20 million  in income and sales tax per year but ignore all the other taxable activity 13000 people generate in housing, services and ancillary industry. Additionally, the construction phases add taxable activity to WI builders (part of the agreememt). Finally, the payout occurs to the state when the subsidies expire 10 or more years down the road and, along with the 13000 (however many?) jobs, the improved site is added to the tax rolls along with the other taxes (sales, business and use, etc) tp add to state coffers.

......but, stick with your narrative.....

You keep going with that gov't controlled economy. It works so well in your adopted homeland.

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2 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Only the bird would claim that a few warehouses and distribution facilities, all non-union and paying $12-$15/hour is an “explosion” of development.

What does "Union" have to do woth anything?

2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

To be fair - that’s about the best out state Wisconsin can hope for these days.

$12 - $15 /hr is the exception.  

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1 minute ago, warbird said:

What does "Union" have to do woth anything?

$12 - $15 /hr is the exception.  

Warbird the Socialist.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You keep going with that gov't controlled economy. It works so well in your adopted homeland.

You, collectively, are all pissed off that Walker crafted a deal that protects WI and netted the largest foroegn $investmemt in US history amd that it os moving forward. :lol:

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Just now, warbird said:

You, collectively, are all pissed off that Walker crafted a deal that protects WI and netted the largest foroegn $investmemt in US history amd that it os moving forward. :lol:

Congrats on Jobs that pay as well as McDonald’s 

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3 minutes ago, warbird said:

You, collectively, are all pissed off that Walker crafted a deal that protects WI and netted the largest foroegn $investmemt in US history amd that it os moving forward. :lol:

I find it funny that a "conservative" is actually a govt'-directed economy socialist

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