Sign in to follow this  
Shortforbob

First Step Act

Recommended Posts

Seems like a great fanfare over a small fart in the general direction.

  • The legislation reduces the enhanced penalties for certain non-violent repeat drug offenders and eliminates the three-strike mandatory life provision.

My take away...you'll now get 25 years instead of life for stealing a piece of pizza, a car and roll of fencing wire.

The rest of it's similarly pathetic.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-calls-congress-pass-first-step-act/

 

Can anyone find the actual proposed legislation?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like something Obama could have done more about.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, VOA said:

Sounds like something Obama could have done more about.

Cept he  couldn’t cause the Rs were too fuckin busy playing partisan obstructionist politics weren’t they.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He had his first 2 years, didn't he? Will the Ds obstruct this half step in the right direction? Did the Dems make any such proposal that the Rs obstructed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

32 minutes ago, VOA said:

He had his first 2 years, didn't he? Will the Ds obstruct this half step in the right direction? Did the Dems make any such proposal that the Rs obstructed?

I think you may want to look up the history of this before you mouth off.

https://www.firststepact.org/aboutfirststep

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/obama-legacy/racial-profiling-criminal-justice-reform.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Sentencing_Act

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it’s the same old regurgitated shite that for the last 50 years or so has not made any real improvements.

It has grown  a prison pop massively and not improved rates of recidivism .

The net result we are training criminalsto be better criminals because there are no options especially when they get out.

Refer the Dutch model where prisons are being shut down and recidivism rates are almost  zero but sadly while that model is highly successful it will be to socialist for US consumption.

More especially when you have an idiot leading chants of lock her up as if that will really change anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Did Obama make any such proposal that was sent down by the Rs?

Why do you have an issue with a step in the right the direction?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Think it’s the same old regurgitated shite that for the last 50 years or so has not made any real improvements.

It has grown  a prison pop massively and not improved rates of recidivism .

The net result we are training criminalsto be better criminals because there are no options especially when they get out.

Refer the Dutch model where prisons are being shut down and recidivism rates are almost  zero but sadly while that model is highly successful it will be to socialist for US consumption.

More especially when you have an idiot leading chants of lock her up as if that will really change anything.

Any reform is good reform I suppose but once this is through, there's always the risk that the issue will get shelved for another 8 years.

Draconian is an inadequate description of sentencing and  incarceration in the USA.

As for the spending package,  it's less than a dollar per prisoner over 5 years...yet that useless wall?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Any reform is good reform I suppose but once this is through, there's always the risk that the issue will get shelved for another 8 years.

Draconian is an inadequate description of sentencing and  incarceration in the USA.

As for the spending package,  it's less than a dollar per prisoner over 5 years...yet that useless wall?

 

Can you stay on topic? You were trying to bag Trump for trying something Obama didn't even touch, remember?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Any reform is good reform I suppose but once this is through, there's always the risk that the issue will get shelved for another 8 years.

Draconian is an inadequate description of sentencing and  incarceration in the USA.

As for the spending package,  it's less than a dollar per prisoner over 5 years...yet that useless wall?

 

Agree Meli

A pity they do not apply draconian thinking to a problem that will remain unsolved in the short term .

I cannot imagine Donnie having any vision to improve things.

Dont know what the total cost of incarceration translates as a total cost to each taxpayer but it’s gotta be a big number and getting bigger because of a failed approach to the problem.

you probably have to troll through data State by State to gain a picture and honestly I don’t have the energy.

Sadly the rationale of “lock em up for longer “ has not been successful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just from Wiki but cites the ABS

Cost[edit]

410px-US_criminal_justice_cost_timeline.
 
U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. Not adjusted for inflation. To view the inflation-adjusted data:[217][218]
410px-Federal_prison_year_cost.png
 
Federal prison yearly cost

Judicial, police, and corrections costs totaled $212 billion in 2011 according to the U.S. Census Bureau.[219] In 2007, around $74 billion was spent on corrections according to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics.[217][218]

In 2014, among facilities operated by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the average cost of incarceration for federal inmates in fiscal year 2014 was $30,619.85. The average annual cost to confine an inmate in a residential re-entry center was $28,999.25.[220]

State prisons averaged $31,286 per inmate in 2010 according to a Vera Institute of Justice study. It ranged from $14,603 in Kentucky to $60,076 in New York.[221]

In California in 2008, it cost the state an average of $47,102 a year to incarcerate an inmate in a state prison. From 2001 to 2009, the average annual cost increased by about $19,500.[222]

Housing the approximately 500,000 people in jail in the US awaiting trial who cannot afford bail costs $9 billion a year.[223] Most jail inmates are petty, nonviolent offenders. Twenty years ago most nonviolent defendants were released on their own recognizance (trusted to show up at trial). Now most are given bail, and most pay a bail bondsman to afford it.[224] 62% of local jail inmates are awaiting trial.[225

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Agree Meli

A pity they do not apply draconian thinking to a problem that will remain unsolved in the short term .

I cannot imagine Donnie having any vision to improve things.

Dont know what the total cost of incarceration translates as a total cost to each taxpayer but it’s gotta be a big number and getting bigger because of a failed approach to the problem.

you probably have to troll through data State by State to gain a picture and honestly I don’t have the energy.

Sadly the rationale of “lock em up for longer “ has not been successful.

Why did Obama do nothing about it? Donnie's having a go at doing something.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fucking hell V, your down votes will be more than mine shortly!

Do you want to have a down voting fight?  Let's do it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic but not really.... I heard on NPR the other day as they were opining on what it meant for trump losing the House and dealing with a divided Congress.  The thought was that since he has an almost sociopathic need to be loved and admired - that his narcissism might actually present an opening for Congress to get some legislation through by taking advantage of that need for adulation.  Things like a big infrastructure spending bill, healthcare reform and immigration might all be on the table to get passed if he thinks he'll get the credit for it.  

I personally think he would throw the GOP under the bus in a New York minute and work with the Dems if it advanced his own sense of self-worth and belief in his own god like stature.  As much as they rightfully despise trump, the D's will miss a golden opportunity to flip him to their side by not manipulating him using things they know he cares about - which frankly is only himself.  But if the dems could play to that, they could almost get a blank check to do what they wanted.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow corrections costs at 74 Bill /325 mill pop of US = 227.69 buck per person in the US and they are 2014 figures you would think someone would be saying hey there’s gotta be a better way but I guess the private prison people have a business model and lobbyists to pay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Wow corrections costs at 74 Bill /325 mill pop of US = 227.69 buck per person in the US and they are 2014 figures you would think someone would be saying hey there’s gotta be a better way but I guess the private prison people have a business model and lobbyists to pay.

That's been around for a good while now. Why didn't Obama do something?

  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

What makes you think that you're more aware of the history?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you open the links so kindly provided by Shortforbob?

Or are you simply trying to lay the blame for the long running problems on Obama’s doorstep because you are an ignorant fuckwit?

I am a relative newbie myself but if you are going to put forth an opinion be prepared to back it up with sound data.

I have given you the benefit of doubt and will continue to do so but that is tempered with the number of downvoted you have already accrued.

Please offer us something more than asinine one liners that don’t mean anything.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

but that is tempered with the number of downvoted you have already accrued.

Really???  Does anyone actually look at that metric?  So this shithole is now a popularity contest???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Navig8tor said:
3 hours ago, VOA said:

Sounds like something Obama could have done more about.

Cept he  couldn’t cause the Rs were too fuckin busy playing partisan obstructionist politics weren’t they.

That did not stop him from working hard on issues about which he cared.

But arguing about which half of the Duopoly didn't do this soon enough kind of misses the point.

Quote

"Trump is on his way to becoming the uniter-in-chief on an issue that has long divided the nation," Van Jones, a former Obama administration official and co-founder of #cut50, a criminal justice advocacy group, said in a statement. "We applaud President Trump for supporting the FIRST STEP Act. I am so glad to see him join a growing bipartisan movement that spans racial lines, geographic divides, class, and political party in support of policies that promote public safety, rehabilitation, and fairness."

That guy gets the point.

 

4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Seems like a great fanfare over a small fart in the general direction.

Which is better than nothing. Having seen no progress, or worse, congress (the opposite of progress) in this area for most of my life, seeing some is good.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Did you open the links so kindly provided by Shortforbob?

Nope, not a one. I have google on my puter as well

Or are you simply trying to lay the blame for the long running problems on Obama’s doorstep because you are an ignorant fuckwit?

I didn't lay blame on anyone. I asked if Obama had made any such move. I won't resort to name calling, I wear big boy pants unlike you.

I am a relative newbie myself but if you are going to put forth an opinion be prepared to back it up with sound data.

Meli posted the topic, I'm asking questions that she doesn't want to answer. It seems you don't want to either

I have given you the benefit of doubt and will continue to do so but that is tempered with the number of downvoted you have already accrued.

Heh, and you ask for sound data? Really?

Please offer us something more than asinine one liners that don’t mean anything.......

I've just given you a set of one liners to match yours.

4

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Slightly off topic but not really.... I heard on NPR the other day as they were opining on what it meant for trump losing the House and dealing with a divided Congress.  The thought was that since he has an almost sociopathic need to be loved and admired - that his narcissism might actually present an opening for Congress to get some legislation through by taking advantage of that need for adulation.  Things like a big infrastructure spending bill, healthcare reform and immigration might all be on the table to get passed if he thinks he'll get the credit for it.  

I personally think he would throw the GOP under the bus in a New York minute and work with the Dems if it advanced his own sense of self-worth and belief in his own god like stature.  As much as they rightfully despise trump, the D's will miss a golden opportunity to flip him to their side by not manipulating him using things they know he cares about - which frankly is only himself.  But if the dems could play to that, they could almost get a blank check to do what they wanted.  

No comments from the "Cheeto haters club"???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, VOA said:

Why did Obama do nothing about it? Donnie's having a go at doing something.

Why do you want to continue to focus on President Obama?

Trying to distract attention from President Trump?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

No comments from the "Cheeto haters club"???

I see the same opportunity. 

I also think the Democrats will likely squander it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bus Driver said:

Why do you want to continue to focus on President Obama?

Trying to distract attention from President Trump?

Trump is trying to do something about this issue and Meli is saying it's not enough. I'm just asking why it wasn't on her radar when it was Obama's call.

Do you think Obama should have tried to do something? Or GWB prior to that? Or Bubba before that?

These repeat offender laws have been around for a good long while.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, VOA said:

Trump is trying to do something about this issue and Meli is saying it's not enough. I'm just asking why it wasn't on her radar when it was Obama's call.

Do you think Obama should have tried to do something? Or GWB prior to that? Or Bubba before that?

These repeat offender laws have been around for a good long while.

I prefer to avoid playing "whatabout?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed. I'm careful with my questions. 

Care to address them? Or would you like to play silly semantic games? Can I assume you're not an assinine fool like Randy?

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, VOA said:

I've noticed. I'm careful with my questions. 

Care to address them? Or would you like to play silly semantic games? Can I assume you're not an assinine fool like Randy?

You can assume all you want.

Shortly after this thread was started, you wanted to talk about President Obama.  First comment, in fact.  That seems to be a thing for you.

I am not interested in your game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You can assume all you want.

Shortly after this thread was started, you wanted to talk about President Obama.  First comment, in fact.  That seems to be a thing for you.

I am not interested in your game.

It appears that you are interested. Do you not think that a legitimate response? Meli doesn't think Trump's move is enough, I'm curious as to why trying something raises her hackles. Doing nothing didn't seem to upset anybody. Would you like to talk about the fallacies in her "take away" from the OP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"As much as they rightfully despise trump, the D's will miss a golden opportunity to flip him to their side by not manipulating him using things they know he cares about - which frankly is only himself.  But if the dems could play to that, they could almost get a blank check to do what they wanted.  "

Possibly, if he was a "normal" actor but his track record of being a dishonest negotiator and throwing his own team under the bus argues against any kind of check, let alone blank.  Add the absolute toxicity of being in the same room as the man then stir in the Republican Senate that will, quite probably, shoot down anything bipartisan coming from the House ("No" is an entrenched response in this Senate leadership) and Dem's really have little reason to try to play nice with the man.

Probable scenario

Dem House passes prison reform with Pres help.

Left end of Dem supporters scream about working with the Pres.

Senate shoots down bill.

Pres blames Dems for passing a bill that wouldn't get past the Senate.

Dems stand there with an empty bag and crap on their face for trusting that THIS TIME the Pres would act like a reasonable person.

Who wins?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:
1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

No comments from the "Cheeto haters club"???

I see the same opportunity. 

I also think the Democrats will likely squander it. 

Yep, I think they will choose subpoenas over legislation.  Its not going to be about governing, it will be about butthurt and revenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Seems like a great fanfare over a small fart in the general direction.

  • The legislation reduces the enhanced penalties for certain non-violent repeat drug offenders and eliminates the three-strike mandatory life provision.

My take away...you'll now get 25 years instead of life for stealing a piece of pizza, a car and roll of fencing wire.

The rest of it's similarly pathetic.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-calls-congress-pass-first-step-act/

 

Can anyone find the actual proposed legislation?

 

 

Sure, you could.  If you were actually interested.

But, here, I'll help you this time. 

The 'first step' would be to search for First Step Act congress.

The next step would be to click on the one that says

That's an actual congress.gov page.  You can usually find all legislation that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Things like a big infrastructure spending bill

It's always infrastructure week.

If he cooperates with the Dems he'll go down in the primary, regardless it won't get through the Senate. Nothings getting done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yep, I think they will choose subpoenas over legislation.  Its not going to be about governing, it will be about butthurt and revenge.

Which, as established by the 2010-2016 Republican Congress, is rewarded. If Paul Ryan weren't a fucking idiot, the Rs would still be in control of the House.

There is, of course, no reason you can't do both. Other than Presidential butthurt and a need for Republican criminals to escape justice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Really???  Does anyone actually look at that metric?  So this shithole is now a popularity contest???

Like the one you ran?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:
10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Really???  Does anyone actually look at that metric?  So this shithole is now a popularity contest???

Like the one you ran?

tenor.gif?itemid=9450407

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, VOA said:

Trump is trying to do something about this issue and Meli is saying it's not enough. I'm just asking why it wasn't on her radar when it was Obama's call.

Do you think Obama should have tried to do something? Or GWB prior to that? Or Bubba before that?

These repeat offender laws have been around for a good long while.

Bubba did take a stab at prison sentencing reform in 1994 and its why we are in this mess at this time. Remember super predators? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I prefer to avoid playing "whatabout?"

I figure anyone can bring up Obama on any topic as long as he and his supporters claim its still his economy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, chinabald said:

I figure anyone can bring up Obama on any topic as long as he and his supporters claim its still his economy. 

It's not his now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/15/2018 at 1:58 AM, Shortforbob said:

The rest of it's similarly pathetic.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-calls-congress-pass-first-step-act/

 

Can anyone find the actual proposed legislation?

Saorsa found it for you but Trump summarizes the reasons to support it.

 

Quote

 

THE DAILY CALLER: Just one second, sir, on that criminal justice bill. Is that the Jared Kushner-backed bill that you want to focus on?

POTUS: The answer is I'm looking at it very closely, okay? I am. It's a good thing. You know, Texas is backing it, if you look at Mississippi and Georgia and a lot of other places, they believe in it, those governors, and they're conservative people. Rick Perry's a big fan.

You know, a lot of people are backing it. Look at the people that are backing it. Even, you know, like Mike Lee, he votes against a lot of things and we respect Mike and Mike is backing it. We have a lot of people that are backing this.

The rest of the interview is more of the same: friendly, easy questions basically giving Trump free rein to talk about whatever he wants, followed by oblivious answers or complete non sequiturs—like when Trump responded to a question about immigration policy with a long rant against special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.

This isn't new for Trump. It seems like almost every sit-down interview or press conference is followed by a series of articles (like this one!) questioning the president's grasp of basic facts, his understanding of federal policy, and his ability to communicate in complete sentences.

 

 

I hope that clears it up for you. (With the usual apology for posting more Koch-$pon$ored TeamR propaganda.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this