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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

Depend on the sea state - if bumpy upwind the Shocker will be faster - if good sea state the Dragon can see 14knots... halfwind its no match the tri is much faster. Dead downwind - it can be a draw - if its abit from side - the Dragon is very fast... Superlight - the mono can have an advantage if its some waves...I find the the sail area is about 63m2 upwind - the Dragon I guess has +10m2 at least - and more stability. Racing monos use to have a sail for every knot of wind - and the people to handle it ....Its a good strategy to be 3 on the Dragon  - can be tempting with 4 - but the weight is so important - take food  for 3 days- but water for 5 just in case.... 

We have less sail area than they do, upwind and downwind, Dragon has a conservative mast height. 

Sailing around here, especially Johnstone Strait and North, it’s going to be a lumpy sea state when there is breeze.  Since the typical race has lot of upwind work it’s going to be a challenge to stay in touch with them unless we get some conditions that help us. 

Regardless, our objective is to sail hard and to push ourselves and of course finish. 

 

 

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Cmon Dragon. You're the favourite to win. Deal with it. From what I can tell the Shock carries a rating of about -6 compared to yours at a generous -46. End of story. Don't wreck the boat and you'll be good. And please, enough with " they have really good sailors on board". So do you. 

 

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3 hours ago, D Wayne G said:

Cmon Dragon. You're the favourite to win. Deal with it. From what I can tell the Shock carries a rating of about -6 compared to yours at a generous -46. End of story. Don't wreck the boat and you'll be good. And please, enough with " they have really good sailors on board". So do you. 

 

Damn, my Reynolds 33 rating is around -49, what a race it could of been,

She will out row a Dragon, but he has the top end in bad weather.

Racing for line honors is a high, pure adrenalin, and

Dragon will win by 12 hours, just saying

20190126_093721.thumb.jpg.4e826ab122642ae6b4192e4d77cf806b.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, multihuler said:

Damn, my Reynolds 33 rating is around -49, what a race it could of been,

She will out row a Dragon, but he has the top end in bad weather.

Racing for line honors is a high, pure adrenalin, and

Dragon will win by 12 hours, just saying

20190126_093721.thumb.jpg.4e826ab122642ae6b4192e4d77cf806b.jpg

 

$31k for a Reynolds 33 or $600k for a Morrelli 

IMG_0995.JPG

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20 hours ago, SeaGul said:

- we have seen many fast boats that are sailed in holiday mode.

Are you referring to me? I'm guessing so. 

The Schock 40 is kind of a last-minute entry and they may have more "teething" issues that others that have been building and testing stuff for a season or more. I think that questioning what powers their canting keel is over the top. it's not like they are going to pump the boat with the keel.

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2 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Are you referring to me? I'm guessing so. 

The Schock 40 is kind of a last-minute entry and they may have more "teething" issues that others that have been building and testing stuff for a season or more. I think that questioning what powers their canting keel is over the top. it's not like they are going to pump the boat with the keel.

No - singelhanded - I get its hard ....... but I watched your markeur lying still sometimes in the beginning when you was in the lead - seeing the others passing - and thinking  maybe getting up a little earlier? But it was a long hard race so your planning was perfect. But there where other fully crewed boat with a lot potential that was in holiday mode - but if you see its no chance of winning - i get that too..   

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It would be nice to have some more data on the boats - mast height - weight - sail areal - type of sail carried onboard etc. As no rules/ratings - theres lots of options  to optimize the boats - and its very interesting to see how the boats are modified. 

 

The Skokk 40 - they still have a month - but others have planned for years....

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11 hours ago, SeaGul said:

No - singelhanded - I get its hard ....... but I watched your markeur lying still sometimes in the beginning when you was in the lead - seeing the others passing - and thinking  maybe getting up a little earlier? But it was a long hard race so your planning was perfect. But there where other fully crewed boat with a lot potential that was in holiday mode - but if you see its no chance of winning - i get that too..   

What is wrong with holiday mode? Only one multihull gets the $, so you might as well enjoy the journey.  My buddy wanted to stop and go bowling, and I wanted to catch a fish, so, it is all about your chosen personal goal. 

First place is expensive, second place is cheap.

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1 hour ago, multihuler said:

What is wrong with holiday mode? Only one multihull gets the $, so you might as well enjoy the journey.  My buddy wanted to stop and go bowling, and I wanted to catch a fish, so, it is all about your chosen personal goal. 

First place is expensive, second place is cheap.

You are spot on!  

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1 hour ago, 40Plus said:

You are spot on!  

....a little funny - get the right weapon from the other side of the world - optimize it for a year - and go for holiday mode in the RACE 2 Alaska?  

 

Really irritating that 2 monoslugs beat the multis last year too!!!

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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

....a little funny - get the right weapon from the other side of the world - optimize it for a year - and go for holiday mode in the RACE 2 Alaska?  

 

Really irritating that 2 monoslugs beat the multis last year too!!!

Wtf, you and your holiday mode, I will give you a pass on this one as I assume english is your second language by the way you misunderstood things. 

 I simply agreed with Multihuler,  you need to take in the experience, the challenge and beauty of doing the R2AK weather you win or lose.  Everyone  does this race for their own reasons and for most it’s simply the challenge of finishing, if you don’t get that then you don’t get What the R2AK is all about. 

And so what, a Melges 32 beat a couple of multis that are actually slower than than the Melges, good for them. 

Maybe you need to get your ass over here and show everyone how it’s done.

Now fuck off.

 

 

 

 

 

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Too bad 'deep pockets' didn't get Time Machine over here. Wadda matchup, Dragon, Time Machine and Mama Tried!!!! Woof!

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So its not holiday mode... race is on.

 

The mono-multi aspect of this race is a big part of it when both really go for it. IMO Jungle Kitty was the sharpest mono yet - but it was also up against the fastest multi - the legendary modified M32.

Last year 3 monos - one Santa Cruz 27 beat all multis. The SC27 made an tactical error - otherwise it could be very close to the two in front... Looking at how fast Russel was going with the G32 - can wonder if its possible to win in that boat with 2 crew ? Very interesting data on the previous races....

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15 hours ago, olsurfer said:

Too bad 'deep pockets' didn't get Time Machine over here. Wadda matchup, Dragon, Time Machine and Mama Tried!!!! Woof!

Is that an option?

41277418_2209349255773768_5908240132879679488_o.jpg

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Love trimarans, but a competitive cat would be nice.

48 ft mast, and will out row a trimaran

See sa classifieds 

20190126_093721 (1).jpg

IMG_0978.JPG

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Or, if you are a real badass, 39 ft mast, 450 lbs

52024193_2527261277315896_9039211656042774528_n.jpg

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On 5/3/2019 at 8:54 PM, Norse Horse said:

When the RC asked me about my water ballast emptied by electric pump, they were only concerned about me using the jet for propulsion. Maybe the RC noted the boat has only a 48 hr range without recharging and said "have at 'er".

A genset to charge them would not be allowed. The motor on a tiller pilot is allowed.

This boat seems to rate -6 to -21 https://www.sailingworld.com/sailboats/schock-40-0

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/schock-40

Some vid here. https://www.facebook.com/schock40/

That seems fair. Everybody else will be starting the race with batteries charged, and whether you use your juice for canting your keel or charging your iphone or radioing for rescue doesn't matter after the start. Nor does how you keep your batteries charged, as long as it's not a genset.

I am curious to know what happens after 48 hours, assuming you don't have a bunch of solar panels.

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33 minutes ago, wjquigs said:

That seems fair. Everybody else will be starting the race with batteries charged, and whether you use your juice for canting your keel or charging your iphone or radioing for rescue doesn't matter after the start. Nor does how you keep your batteries charged, as long as it's not a genset.

I am curious to know what happens after 48 hours, assuming you don't have a bunch of solar panels.

I would question whether carrying enough weight in batteries to cant the keel would be efficient vs letting gravity and a little hand pumping do the work.  If short tacking, centre the keel and use a smaller headsail...

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On 5/9/2019 at 8:56 PM, Tunnel Rat said:

I would question whether carrying enough weight in batteries to cant the keel would be efficient vs letting gravity and a little hand pumping do the work.  If short tacking, centre the keel and use a smaller headsail...

What would you think if they had a fuel cell to power it?

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10 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

What would you think if they had a fuel cell to power it?

Does anyone actually think that they can power the boat by canting the keel back and forth? 

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2 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Does anyone actually think that they can power the boat by canting the keel back and forth? 

Interesting question.

We could power our narrow gutted 30 ft sports boat with a deep bulbed fin keel, in a glass out, by placing one crew each side, holding the shrouds, and rocking the boat from side to side in a slow rhythmic motion. I guess the tiniest forward motion plus the flow generated by the rolling, over the keel, generated lift  causing the forward motion.

Easily get a knot of boat speed with some practice , effortlessly, for the trip back to the mooring.

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If it was a keel would work but the bulb is on a strut, no lift

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On 5/7/2019 at 8:02 PM, Russell Brown said:
On 5/6/2019 at 11:01 PM, SeaGul said:

- we have seen many fast boats that are sailed in holiday mode.

 

Russell doesn't like to sail at night around here. Too many BIG floating logs that you can't see. Some of them float vertically with almost the whole log submerged and just a foot or two out of the water. They bob up and down vertically in a seaway. They puncture boats quite easily and are known as "deadheads"

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35 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Russell doesn't like to sail at night around here. Too many BIG floating logs that you can't see. Some of them float vertically with almost the whole log submerged and just a foot or two out of the water. They bob up and down vertically in a seaway. They puncture boats quite easily and are known as "deadheads"

 

Going singlehanded as said - I totally get it - you have to be in it for many days - so you need to rest. With the logs -  can you even see them during daytime - before they are so close you will hit?  Maybe in close to flat and glassy waters - but then they will be no real danger - give the speed will be low. But going fast during daytime - with some seas - you be lucky to see a log. The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.

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Another idea the get propulsion without a motor; wavepower ; see from 2.30 a test many years ago here in the Oslo-fjord - this ting got up to 6knots: If you have autopilot you can sleep at night when the boat is in this mode -going right against the waves...  a modern carbon version using the latest tech would be more effective on a light boat - a cat could have two - ore one big.

 

 

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15 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Interesting question.

We could power our narrow gutted 30 ft sports boat with a deep bulbed fin keel, in a glass out, by placing one crew each side, holding the shrouds, and rocking the boat from side to side in a slow rhythmic motion. I guess the tiniest forward motion plus the flow generated by the rolling, over the keel, generated lift  causing the forward motion.

Easily get a knot of boat speed with some practice , effortlessly, for the trip back to the mooring.

Would electric winches be allowed?  

A fuel cell is a generator, using methanol to produce electricity.  https://www.efoy-comfort.com/how-it-works

Using electrical power to cant the keel is legit for the race seems against the spirit of the event. Using a fuel cell seems a little further down the road. 

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21 hours ago, SeaGul said:

 

Going singlehanded as said - I totally get it - you have to be in it for many days - so you need to rest. With the logs -  can you even see them during daytime - before they are so close you will hit?  Maybe in close to flat and glassy waters - but then they will be no real danger - give the speed will be low. But going fast during daytime - with some seas - you be lucky to see a log. The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.

They emerge where ever they think there is some jamming is going to occur!   Its a big mess if you hit one.

- Stumbling

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8 hours ago, sinker said:

Would electric winches be allowed?  

A fuel cell is a generator, using methanol to produce electricity.  https://www.efoy-comfort.com/how-it-works

Using electrical power to cant the keel is legit for the race seems against the spirit of the event. Using a fuel cell seems a little further down the road. 

To use electric power to cant a keel - you need a form of motor - to transform the electricity into movement - so against the rules - also electric winches imo. And even if you harvest the electricity while you are out there - you need the motor. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 11:16 PM, Zonker said:

Russell doesn't like to sail at night around here. Too many BIG floating logs that you can't see. Some of them float vertically with almost the whole log submerged and just a foot or two out of the water. They bob up and down vertically in a seaway. They puncture boats quite easily and are known as "deadheads"

What a long strange trip it's been.

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8 hours ago, SeaGul said:

To use electric power to cant a keel - you need a form of motor - to transform the electricity into movement - so against the rules - also electric winches imo. And even if you harvest the electricity while you are out there - you need the motor. 

I could use my autopilot to scull the rudders back and forth and that would be "against the rules", but I'm not going to. Why?, because it's an utterly useless way to propel the boat, not because it's against the rules. Same thing with canting the keel. Remember that these boats do have auxiliary power, even if it is human and it ain't round the buoys racing.

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I'm just going to turn up the reggae on the waterproof earbuds to 11 and bunny hop the whole course like this!

 

Funny thing is Roger Mann could probably pull it off!

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9 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I'm just going to turn up the reggae on the waterproof earbuds to 11 and bunny hop the whole course like this!

 

Funny thing is Roger Mann could probably pull it off!

I think that at real world speed, you need to have Ska, Cajun or Bluegrass on the repeating playlist, to keep the foils working.

Other part is to have a repeatable inflatable/deflatable boat that instantly deploys for deep water starts.

Stomp that foil, boy!

- Stumbling

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On 5/12/2019 at 12:01 AM, SeaGul said:

 

Going singlehanded as said - I totally get it - you have to be in it for many days - so you need to rest. With the logs -  can you even see them during daytime - before they are so close you will hit?  Maybe in close to flat and glassy waters - but then they will be no real danger - give the speed will be low. But going fast during daytime - with some seas - you be lucky to see a log. The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.

11 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

They emerge where ever they think there is some jamming is going to occur!   Its a big mess if you hit one.

- Stumbling

Everyone knows deadheads go to sleep below the water at night, have you ever seen one?

 

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

I could use my autopilot to scull the rudders back and forth and that would be "against the rules", but I'm not going to. Why?, because it's an utterly useless way to propel the boat, not because it's against the rules. Same thing with canting the keel. Remember that these boats do have auxiliary power, even if it is human and it ain't round the buoys racing.

Rudder or keel - as you say - will not work good anyway. Steering is something you easy do - and a autopilot is more like an instrument - but its a small motor there, next step is the electric power winch - and the next level is power for moving a canting keel.  None is used for propulsion. Then you should be able to maintain the batteries on the go - no charging from land. 

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The testing of the wavefoils was done for bigger boats - I can see it will not be good enough for a big vessel - but for a small light wessel it might work; a sailboat that tacks will have problems doing 5kn vmg - so if you can manage that speed while you are safe - sails down - and resting - it would be a good option for a race like R2AK or while touring. 

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On 5/12/2019 at 12:01 AM, SeaGul said:

 The deadheads - the rumor is the just emerge at night - but you are very unlucky to hit one to get damage.

Yup, many.  But not at night.  Who in their right mind would be in a small boat, sailing fast, at night, in them waters? 

So I'm cruising along under power out the Straits.  Somewhere just east of Port Angeles, ahead and not half a length to starboard, vertically aligned, surfaces a 4' deadhead.  Only it's metallic silver and has a rounded point at the exposed end.  WTF?  I  slow down and drift alongside to check it out. It doesn't take long to realize what I'm seeing.  A f&#&ing torpedo.  Two days before I'd been by Area Whiskey Golf, and seen torpedoes being dropped from low flying military aircraft.  I guessed this deadhead likely an escapee.

"U.S. Coast Guard, WILDFLOWER, channel 16."  "WILDFLOWER, this is U.S. Coast Guard, go ahead. "Coast Guard, I'm standing by a torpedo, floating vertically, 4 feet exposed, at position XXxYY.   Silence.  WILDFLOWER, this is U.S. Coast Guard, please repeat what it is you are standing by"." "Also, we request you maintain station near the object until a Coast Guard vessel arrives."

That's how I got to spend a morning drifting in the vicinity, but not too close, to a deadhead torpedo. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there.


 

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1 minute ago, sleddog said:

That's how I got to spend a morning drifting in the vicinity, but not too close, to a deadhead torpedo. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there.
 

omg.

And I thought I had bad luck when I hit a 2 foot long "branch" the other day on my way back from Race to the Straits...

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On 5/12/2019 at 10:37 AM, Russell Brown said:

Does anyone actually think that they can power the boat by canting the keel back and forth? 

Not me.  But it is still an interesting question whether it is efficient to carry the battery weight needed for power canting in tacks and jibes vs using gravity and human pumping.

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22 hours ago, SeaGul said:

To use electric power to cant a keel - you need a form of motor - to transform the electricity into movement - so against the rules - also electric winches imo. And even if you harvest the electricity while you are out there - you need the motor. 

I don't believe using a motor to cant the keel is against the rules, because it's not actually propelling the boat. (Unless you decide to use all of your electric power in about 10 minutes by canting back and forth to propel your Schock at 0.5 knots in dead calm).

In a "typical" sailboat race that only lasts a few hours, the Schock arguably has an unfair advantage over any boat without a canting keel, because they're using energy (electricity) acquired and stored at the dock to make their boat go faster. Without this energy, they'd have to keep the keel centered and use smaller sails, or more rail meat: back of the envelope, 1800 pounds of ballast at the end of a 6-foot strut is equivalent to about eleven 200-pound guys on the rail...that's a lot of rail meat.

For R2AK, they're venturing into the unknown. Will they carry extra crew just to pump the keel? Will they install 10000 watts of solar? IMO, being crazy enough to enter this boat in this race is entirely within the spirit of R2AK.

 

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Gabard setting his around the world record singlehanded on a big trimaran - used no diesel from what I know - he stored pressure to operate winches and foils - made by his own work. But bigger monos must have a diesel going to get the power to operate the boats all keels and foils, but they still use manpower for winches from what I know. This is a step to fare even in that type of races imo. What Shock plans to do I dont know - but its an interesting question. 

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10 hours ago, wjquigs said:

I don't believe using a motor to cant the keel is against the rules, because it's not actually propelling the boat. (Unless you decide to use all of your electric power in about 10 minutes by canting back and forth to propel your Schock at 0.5 knots in dead calm).

In a "typical" sailboat race that only lasts a few hours, the Schock arguably has an unfair advantage over any boat without a canting keel, because they're using energy (electricity) acquired and stored at the dock to make their boat go faster. Without this energy, they'd have to keep the keel centered and use smaller sails, or more rail meat: back of the envelope, 1800 pounds of ballast at the end of a 6-foot strut is equivalent to about eleven 200-pound guys on the rail...that's a lot of rail meat.

For R2AK, they're venturing into the unknown. Will they carry extra crew just to pump the keel? Will they install 10000 watts of solar? IMO, being crazy enough to enter this boat in this race is entirely within the spirit of R2AK.

 

I think this is the crux of the issue, canting the keel makes the boat faster when sailing, but it doesn't directly propel the vessel. It is the same with our water ballast on the the Figaro 2 (though we only use the electrically driven pump to fill the tank and we transfer by gravity). But generating enough electricity to short tack Johnstone Strait and cant every tack seems like it would be hard. For us, it takes about 10 minutes to fill the ballast tank with the pump, drawing 8 amps the entire time. We will have a fuel cell, but it only puts out 3 amps, and our normal running current draw from the GPS/VHF/instruments is about 3. Assuming the fuel cell works for the whole race, and we get some sun, we might just finish with a bit of juice in our batteries, assuming we are conservative with ballast filling.

So yes, ballast/canting keel make the boat faster/more competitive. But so does having integrated instruments, or a place to sleep inside. And there are downsides, wait until you see us trying to pedal power a 6600 lb boat...

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Talk about the rocket boats vying for line honors is great, but a number of participants will sail smaller vessels and do it single-handed, more for the adventure and competing against themselves.

My strategy in my TriRaid and single-handed is to keep moving as much as possible. At the time of the race there will be about 17.5 hours between sunrise and sunset with long periods of twilight before and after. Catnapping with the autopilot steering will allow for "some" rest. 

However, all this talk about logs and deadheads scares me. The boat is not frail, but not as robust as a larger vessel, but capable of over 10 knots. I am looking at the odds of hitting a log or deadhead. How many hits were recorded so far in the history of the race? 

I recalled one boat had its dagger board ripped off a few years back and another crew recorded over 30 sightings if memory serves me right.

Any local knowledge is appreciated.

Team ACE

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2 hours ago, satchel said:

For us, it takes about 10 minutes to fill the ballast tank with the pump, drawing 8 amps the entire time. We will have a fuel cell, but it only puts out 3 amps, and our normal running current draw from the GPS/VHF/instruments is about 3. Assuming the fuel cell works for the whole race, and we get some sun, we might just finish with a bit of juice in our batteries, assuming we are conservative with ballast filling.

It looks like you are using ~50 watts per hour if you fill once (including the 3ah from the instruments).

Fill/tack/transfer 10 times and that could easily be 100w/h.

This should be sustainable however, depending on the amount of solar that you have on board of course. It seems to me like a 200 watt solar panel should suffice, regardless?

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1 hour ago, dsackman said:

However, all this talk about logs and deadheads scares me.

Perhaps you need a "floating object radar detector"... Not entirely sure that is a thing - but how could it not be. :huh:

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FLIR camera is better than radar for picking up small floating items.  But I'm not sure how well it would work with a deadhead that is likely the same temperature as the surrounding water.

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8 minutes ago, him&her said:

It looks like you are using ~50 watts per hour if you fill once (including the 3ah from the instruments).

Fill/tack/transfer 10 times and that could easily be 100w/h.

This should be sustainable however, depending on the amount of solar that you have on board of course. It seems to me like a 200 watt solar panel should suffice, regardless?

Yeah, we only need the pump if we dump the ballast (when the wind drops below 12 knots) and then we have to refill it, tacking takes no power as it is gravity transfer. Yup, we have 200 watts of solar, but last time I did the race we didn't get enough sun north of Cambell River to get more than 0.5-2 amps from the 200 watt panel consistently.

We thought about making a pedal generator to swap on to our pedal drive and have someone bike for power, our cyclists can maintain around 300 watts for an hour. It would have definitely solved our needs, but we were worried it would look a bit too much like an electric motor driving the props.

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Large flexible solar panels that aren't mounted but just tied could be another solution. I have one with short bungee's and s-hooks tied to four corners that I stow below, but when needed it is aimed at the sun in the best spot on the boat. I use it mostly to run the fridge (not kidding). The connection into the charge controller is done with a water resistant quick disconnect plug. It seems like this could be done with multiple cheap panels pretty easily.

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13 hours ago, dsackman said:

My strategy in my TriRaid and single-handed is to keep moving as much as possible. At the time of the race there will be about 17.5 hours between sunrise and sunset with long periods of twilight before and after. Catnapping with the autopilot steering will allow for "some" rest. 

However, all this talk about logs and deadheads scares me. The boat is not frail, but not as robust as a larger vessel, but capable of over 10 knots. I am looking at the odds of hitting a log or deadhead. How many hits were recorded so far in the history of the race? 

I recalled one boat had its dagger board ripped off a few years back and another crew recorded over 30 sightings if memory serves me right.

Any local knowledge is appreciated.

Team ACE

Not local - but some experience with cold climate; to get wet, freeze and tiredness from that will be the biggest problem imo. Wet, cold and tired - its a road to disaster.   You must work with the elements - not to try to beat against wind and current in bad conditions - then you rest in land. As I understand theres not total wilderness and you are allowed to get supplies from local sources a couple of places?  You must have the possibility to dry out and rest in land - protection from wind, rain and get a fire going.  What are the normal sea temperature in the area - 12-14 celsius? In good conditions its a dream to sail that boat - in bad its hell - and you must avoid it.  

 

The logs - you wont see then anyway from sitting so low - and they should not be a big problem to a light and relative slow boat, that just luck or bad luck  - have some equipment for repairs.

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10 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Large flexible solar panels that aren't mounted but just tied could be another solution. I have one with short bungee's and s-hooks tied to four corners that I stow below, but when needed it is aimed at the sun in the best spot on the boat. I use it mostly to run the fridge (not kidding). The connection into the charge controller is done with a water resistant quick disconnect plug. It seems like this could be done with multiple cheap panels pretty easily.

Yeah, that's actually what we have this year, 4 50W panels. They are extra durable though, which seems to effect their efficiency significantly.

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9 hours ago, SeaGul said:

Not local - but some experience with cold climate; to get wet, freeze and tiredness from that will be the biggest problem imo. Wet, cold and tired - its a road to disaster.   You must work with the elements - not to try to beat against wind and current in bad conditions - then you rest in land. As I understand theres not total wilderness and you are allowed to get supplies from local sources a couple of places?  You must have the possibility to dry out and rest in land - protection from wind, rain and get a fire going.  What are the normal sea temperature in the area - 12-14 celsius? In good conditions its a dream to sail that boat - in bad its hell - and you must avoid it.  

 

The logs - you wont see then anyway from sitting so low - and they should not be a big problem to a light and relative slow boat, that just luck or bad luck  - have some equipment for repairs.

There were hundreds of logs piled up along the banks,  I wouldn't worry about it, if you get holed just beach it, the crowds will love when you break out the thin plywood and screws.

the new rubberized gorilla tape is water proof, and will work as a seal,

of course multihulls carry extra hulls

13606962_1135680733140631_3630194275619493298_n.jpg

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:37 AM, dsackman said:

Talk about the rocket boats vying for line honors is great, but a number of participants will sail smaller vessels and do it single-handed, more for the adventure and competing against themselves.

My strategy in my TriRaid and single-handed is to keep moving as much as possible. At the time of the race there will be about 17.5 hours between sunrise and sunset with long periods of twilight before and after. Catnapping with the autopilot steering will allow for "some" rest. 

However, all this talk about logs and deadheads scares me. The boat is not frail, but not as robust as a larger vessel, but capable of over 10 knots. I am looking at the odds of hitting a log or deadhead. How many hits were recorded so far in the history of the race? 

I recalled one boat had its dagger board ripped off a few years back and another crew recorded over 30 sightings if memory serves me right.

Any local knowledge is appreciated.

Team ACE

I have sailed north of Prince Rupert and SE ALASKA extensively as well as far as the north  end of Vancouver Island. I have hit any number of small floating logs and seen some bigger ones. But none of them were big enough to do any damage. I don't know if there is more logging in the section between Vancouver island and Prince Rupert that makes that area especially problematic but if it is like what I've seen I am not too worried about it. My boat is  built of 1/2" plywood and only does about 6 knots though. I did hit a entire alder tree once, branches, leaves and all. I was sort of showing off beating up a narrow channel and the boat just slowly came to a halt. Kind of embarrassing and it was a pain to get untangled. 

Todd

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To all participants going solo, you are my heroes.  I've done some solo racing on the Great Lakes but with a few small exceptions, navigation and hazards were a big nothing.  Some great advice in this thread and I hope you enjoy each moment.  

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2 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

To all participants going solo, you are my heroes.  I've done some solo racing on the Great Lakes but with a few small exceptions, navigation and hazards were a big nothing.  Some great advice in this thread and I hope you enjoy each moment.  

Think the solo-winner will be among  these:

Team Old farts i a windstorm - Hobie 24ft tri self design

Team Soggukru - Tennant catamaran

Team Hobie 1 Kenobie - Hobie Adventure tri.

Team Discovery Podracer selfdesign tri?

Team Ace Trirad 560S tri. 

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18 hours ago, multihuler said:

There were hundreds of logs piled up along the banks,  I wouldn't worry about it, if you get holed just beach it, the crowds will love when you break out the thin plywood and screws.

the new rubberized gorilla tape is water proof, and will work as a seal,

of course multihulls carry extra hulls

13606962_1135680733140631_3630194275619493298_n.jpg

OUCH!  Those beautiful bows...  Hopefully this was just a flesh wound.   She was built like a tank, and about the strongest boat there ever was.

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Is that the bow of the Crowther Team Oldies Shockwave? It was one of my my favorites for the first race.  Could still be a winner in good order....

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5 hours ago, Geff said:

OUCH!  Those beautiful bows...  Hopefully this was just a flesh wound.   She was built like a tank, and about the strongest boat there ever was.

You ever hit anything solid?  :D

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9 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

You ever hit anything solid?  :D

We hit the deadhead at 90 degrees, guessing to be 400lbs

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1 minute ago, multihuler said:

We hit the deadhead at 90 degrees, guessing to be 400lbs

 You lose in that competition to geff. 

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Where is that Shockwave now?

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3 hours ago, SeaGul said:

Is that the bow of the Crowther Team Oldies Shockwave? It was one of my my favorites for the first race.  Could still be a winner in good order....

That's her!  Built like a tank!

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44 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

You ever hit anything solid?  :D

You're funny!  I did!  Motored at about 10 kts straight into a breakwall with those rocks the size of a small office building.  Guess who won?  T Boned that MFcker!  B)

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26 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

Where is that Shockwave now?

You don't really want to know. Sold to Texas and put out to pasture as a hobbled mare for daysailers with a stupid short charter rig. 

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2 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

You don't really want to know. Sold to Texas and put out to pasture as a hobbled mare for daysailers with a stupid short charter rig. 

...heheh so dont tell me - but still excist... so there is hope....

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4 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

...heheh so dont tell me - but still excist... so there is hope....

Boat just sat rode hard and put away wet after the R2AK for some time and a young couple went up and had a look at her for a adventure cruiser. There was a YouTube video that was very sobering. They got bit hard by the appeal of the boat but after sleeping on board a couple of days the reality of how far gone the boat was and they bailed. It was on sale here for ages and then got basically parted out and some sort of swap for a bigger cat went down in Texas. All the top shelf racing sails and gear got replaced and one of the hottest cats ever became a cattlemaran. Here is a hint

I HAVE A ALUMINUM MAST I WILL SUBSTITUTE IF YOU WANT TO USE HER FOR A CHARTER BOAT AND WILL REDUCE THE PRICE BY $14K775 eight 27 two 7 8 six pstNice Pair will be stored at Orcas island, and will be disassembled in a month or two, she will then be taken to Reno.

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Yeah I got that it was a hard time after the R2AH 2015 - and  I seen that vid before.... that concept is just ro right for a fast cat.... and the Crowther bows - I could put them on a new design even today... 

Should have been glued together -stripped of all weight -  tall rig and could be the cheapest potential winner of R2AK... 

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SeaGul,

     I tried to buy that very same Crowther (Twisted Pair) in Puerto Rico right after Hurricane Hugo. She was way out in the SW mangrove swamps where she had been successfully hidden from Mike Bell the builder for years. The original buyer had stiffed Mike for the last third of the agreed price after an angry sea trial. The buyer was wanting all sorts of extras and changes and they almost came to blows at Pier 66 after the first sail. Cops even got called and they were told to go to the corners and get a good nights sleep and start fresh negotiations the next morning. Come morning, Bell and his boys found the cat gone not to be seen for years. My big tri had gotten beached in Culebra and I thought I could rough it on the Shockwave 38 while I patched up my tri. It would have been roughing it and the boat had been impounded for a few years and was a candidate for the Zombie page. After I saw the fine job that Geff had done decades later I wished that I had grabbed her when I could have!

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2 hours ago, Geff said:

You're funny!  I did!  Motored at about 10 kts straight into a breakwall with those rocks the size of a small office building.  Guess who won?  T Boned that MFcker!  B)

Pretty vicious mammogram IIRC!

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16 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

To all participants going solo, you are my heroes.  I've done some solo racing on the Great Lakes but with a few small exceptions, navigation and hazards were a big nothing.  Some great advice in this thread and I hope you enjoy each moment.  

 

13 hours ago, SeaGul said:

Think the solo-winner will be among  these:

Team Old farts i a windstorm - Hobie 24ft tri self design

Team Soggukru - Tennant catamaran

Team Hobie 1 Kenobie - Hobie Adventure tri.

Team Discovery Podracer selfdesign tri?

Team Ace Trirad 560S tri. 

Thank you Cal20. Solo certainly puts a different perspective on the experience. Thank you SeaGul to place me as a potential winner. There is some very stiff competition both boat wise and from veterans of the race. There are however so many things that can dictate how people fare during the race. Health, mental ability to continue through cold, wet and lack of sleep, boat breakages, weather or lack thereof and a myriad of other factors that needs to be solved alone.

Roger Mann apparently once stated, "Life starts after you reached the end of your comfort zone." and I think that is the essence of doing the R2AK solo.

Here is a summary of the 12 solo racers - about 25% of the total field of 46 teams this year. Ordered by LOA (ft).

Team Boat LOA (Ft) Hull Skipper Propulsion
HOBIE-1-KENOBIE Hobie Adventure Island 16.4 Tri Nigel Davies Hobie drive and Paddle
IAQVELO SUP 17.5 Mono Randall Aldern Paddle
EXTREMELY INSAIN SUP 17.6 Mono Alex de Sain Paddle
YOU EITHER DO STUFF OR YOU DON’T Chesapeake Light Craft the Guider 18.0 Mono John Guider Oars
ACE TriRaid 560s 18.5 Tri Daniel Ackermann Hobie drive
GHOST THE COAST Kayak 18.5 Mono Alex Kozma Paddle
THREE LEGGED CAT TriRaid 560s 18.5 Tri Stuart Sugden Paddle
PERSEVERANCE Angus Row-cruiser 18.8 Tri Doug Shoup Rowing
DISCOVERY PodRacer 19.7 Tri Roger Mann Hobie drive
TEXADA Young 6m 21.5 Mono Paul Nilsen Oars & Paddle
OLD FART IN A WINDSTORM Hobie Frankenstein 23.5 Tri Ken Holmes Hobie drive and sliding row station
SOGGYKRU Malcom Tennant Streaker 24.0 Cat Shawn Dunand Pedal

 

 

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8 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Image result for Nice Pair

They look unusually natural for this publication!

- Stumbling

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Ok I see I forgot Three legged cat - he has a lot of experience - but that paddleboard isnt the best....

Singlehanded a tri - but bigger - optimal would be the SeaCart 30 (also with crew) - singlehanded it could be extremely light and fast. It can take anything the others can take - and would also be easier to keep going even at sleep  but still rather fast and safe - sleeping at helm - but seek shelter and rest inside when its hell out there and nobody can make any significant progress.  Its fast enough to gain on any boat that has been in this race except the M32. 

Russels G32 is also a fantastic boat and team - under the right conditions - lot of light air - that could be a winner. 

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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

Ok I see I forgot Three legged cat - he has a lot of experience - but that paddleboard isnt the best....

Singlehanded a tri - but bigger - optimal would be the SeaCart 30 (also with crew) - singlehanded it could be extremely light and fast. It can take anything the others can take - and would also be easier to keep going even at sleep  but still rather fast and safe - sleeping at helm - but seek shelter and rest inside when its hell out there and nobody can make any significant progress.  Its fast enough to gain on any boat that has been in this race except the M32. 

Russels G32 is also a fantastic boat and team - under the right conditions - lot of light air - that could be a winner. 

Seacart is an overpowered monster.  You make a mistake and you're practicing swimming lessons.  With a mess of an expensive boat.  And when you are alone, tired, etc, you will make mistakes.   

I raced an F27 solo from Chicago to Port Huron (540nm- 5 days) with nothing near the challenges this race presents...and I was very challenged.  I had done the course (albeit some  in the opposite direction) more than 50 times.    

Are you in the race?  Have you done it solo?  If so, great respect.  Otherwise, it seems like you're egging the kid on to jump off the roof wearing a Batman suit telling him he will fly.  

Again, I don't know you and great respect if you are a veteran of this very challenging race.   

The G32 would me my weapon of choice.  Easily-driven, small rig, and as you pointed out, quicker than hell in the lighter stuff.   

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18 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Boat just sat rode hard and put away wet after the R2AK for some time and a young couple went up and had a look at her for a adventure cruiser. There was a YouTube video that was very sobering. They got bit hard by the appeal of the boat but after sleeping on board a couple of days the reality of how far gone the boat was and they bailed. It was on sale here for ages and then got basically parted out and some sort of swap for a bigger cat went down in Texas. All the top shelf racing sails and gear got replaced and one of the hottest cats ever became a cattlemaran. Here is a hint

I HAVE A ALUMINUM MAST I WILL SUBSTITUTE IF YOU WANT TO USE HER FOR A CHARTER BOAT AND WILL REDUCE THE PRICE BY $14K775 eight 27 two 7 8 six pstNice Pair will be stored at Orcas island, and will be disassembled in a month or two, she will then be taken to Reno.

That is really sad to hear that "Nice Pair" has come to such a demise and end for her life.  I am sorry to hear it, especially after I gave her such a great life for so many years, and but so much blood, sweat, n tears, not to mention all the love in the world into her.  

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1 hour ago, Geff said:

That is really sad to hear that "Nice Pair" has come to such a demise and end for her life.  I am sorry to hear it, especially after I gave her such a great life for so many years, and but so much blood, sweat, n tears, not to mention all the love in the world into her.  

Before our company was sold, all the founders gathered 'round to answer the question of "what sale price would you take knowing the buyer would likely kill your baby?" A number was agreed to and a buyer later offered it. Then the buyer killed the baby. Nobody could complain, they'd cashed the check.

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Looks like Roger Mann (Adventure Mann) decided not to participate this year. From his Facebook site, "Bahamas crusing (sic) goal early in 2020, should be interesting on such a small catamaran, lots to do to get prepared. Hate to miss R2AK but I will return someday."

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15 minutes ago, dsackman said:

Looks like Roger Mann (Adventure Mann) decided not to participate this year. From his Facebook site, "Bahamas crusing (sic) goal early in 2020, should be interesting on such a small catamaran, lots to do to get prepared. Hate to miss R2AK but I will return someday."

What a pussy...

 

    Just kidding Rog! Have a blast in the Bahamas.

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7 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Seacart is an overpowered monster.  You make a mistake and you're practicing swimming lessons.  With a mess of an expensive boat.  And when you are alone, tired, etc, you will make mistakes.   

I raced an F27 solo from Chicago to Port Huron (540nm- 5 days) with nothing near the challenges this race presents...and I was very challenged.  I had done the course (albeit some  in the opposite direction) more than 50 times.    

Are you in the race?  Have you done it solo?  If so, great respect.  Otherwise, it seems like you're egging the kid on to jump off the roof wearing a Batman suit telling him he will fly.  

Again, I don't know you and great respect if you are a veteran of this very challenging race.   

The G32 would me my weapon of choice.  Easily-driven, small rig, and as you pointed out, quicker than hell in the lighter stuff.   

 

Yes Im a veteran of this race - keyboard veteran... 

I have a boat that has similar rating as the SC30 - but 35ft slightly heavier but also bigger rig. The original SC30  has 40m2 mainsail mine is 58m2. Some years ago I had a cat with 38m2 mainsail and similar weight as the SC30 - the difference between 38 and 58 is rather big.  For the right person who wants to try to win R2AK singlehanded - I think SC30 is the best option, it has proven its strengt and qualities in heavy weather and is usually rated like fast 40ft + tris  - its is also extremly fast in lighter stuff. Set up singlehanded it would be ok for an experienced sailer. Ref. Randy with the M32 a much more difficult boat to sail - and almost impossible singlehanded.  

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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

 

Yes Im a veteran of this race - keyboard veteran... 

I have a boat that has similar rating as the SC30 - but 35ft slightly heavier but also bigger rig. The original SC30  has 40m2 mainsail mine is 58m2. Some years ago I had a cat with 38m2 mainsail and similar weight as the SC30 - the difference between 38 and 58 is rather big.  For the right person who wants to try to win R2AK singlehanded - I think SC30 is the best option, it has proven its strengt and qualities in heavy weather and is usually rated like fast 40ft + tris  - its is also extremly fast in lighter stuff. Set up singlehanded it would be ok for an experienced sailer. Ref. Randy with the M32 a much more difficult boat to sail - and almost impossible singlehanded.  

Agree whole heartedly with the bolded part.  Sorry if I came off negative, might be the frustration of being too old to be the 'right person.'

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Agree whole heartedly with the bolded part.  Sorry if I came off negative, might be the frustration of being too old to be the 'right person.'

...yeah I m probably too old too...

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9 hours ago, IStream said:

Before our company was sold, all the founders gathered 'round to answer the question of "what sale price would you take knowing the buyer would likely kill your baby?" A number was agreed to and a buyer later offered it. Then the buyer killed the baby. Nobody could complain, they'd cashed the check.

Yeah.  I get it. 

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6 minutes ago, Geff said:

Yeah.  I get it. 

Didn't mean to rub it in, more of a commiseration.

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