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bhyde

Promised Tax Cut - Nope

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Well, looks like that big 'ol middle-class tax cut didn't make it past the mid-terms. What a shock. 

White House, McConnell omit promised tax cut from recap of lame-duck agenda

President Trump told Senate Republican leaders on Thursday that his top lame-duck priorities include passing a spending bill with border security funds and approving new prison reform legislation — but middle-class tax cuts appear to have fallen from the agenda.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/white-house-mcconnell-omit-promised-tax-cut-from-recap-of-lame-duck-agenda

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Gosh................. Imagine that!?

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It's use by date was Nov. 6. It no longer is politically useful.

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18 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

It's use by date was Nov. 6. It no longer is politically useful.

It's been combined with The Caravan and everything just imploded.

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3 hours ago, bhyde said:

Well, looks like that big 'ol middle-class tax cut didn't make it past the mid-terms. What a shock. 

White House, McConnell omit promised tax cut from recap of lame-duck agenda

President Trump told Senate Republican leaders on Thursday that his top lame-duck priorities include passing a spending bill with border security funds and approving new prison reform legislation — but middle-class tax cuts appear to have fallen from the agenda.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/white-house-mcconnell-omit-promised-tax-cut-from-recap-of-lame-duck-agenda

It's O/K - the big cut for corporations and the 1% will trickle down soon.....real soon.

 

What incredible suckers the red hats are.

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@Dog red alert man! Need some doggy style!

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47 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

@Dog red alert man! Need some doggy style!

I'm guessing he'll come back with the 'ol classic "you can keep your doctor" whataboutism. Never fails.

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1 minute ago, bhyde said:

I'm guessing he'll come back with the 'ol classic "you can keep your doctor" whataboutism. Never fails.

I was thinking a good “fiscal responsibility” schpiel.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I was thinking a good “fiscal responsibility” schpiel.

They could just repackage the deal for the 2020 elections. Trump will promise a hugely tremendous 15% tax cut while Mitch McFucknut kills SS and Medicare. The red mad hatters will eat it up.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's O/K - the big cut for corporations and the 1% will trickle down soon.....real soon.

 

What incredible suckers the red hats are.

Rates were cut more for lower income tax payers than for the 1% and yes that is a benefit to them yet last month the government set a new record in revenue collections.

If that's being a sucker count me in.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

If that's being a sucker count me in.

I think Mitch omitted you.

And just when you were getting to Know New Taxes too!

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13 hours ago, Dog said:

Rates were cut more for lower income tax payers than for the 1% and yes that is a benefit to them yet last month the government set a new record in revenue collections.

If that's being a sucker count me in.

We do.

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

We do.

That's one of the basis points here.

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18 hours ago, Dog said:

Rates were cut more for lower income tax payers than for the 1% and yes that is a benefit to them yet last month the government set a new record in revenue collections.

If that's being a sucker count me in.

Yes, of course, the corporate tax reduction from 35% to 21% was aimed mainly at the lower income tax payers who own large, profitable corporation.

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18 hours ago, Dog said:

Rates were cut more for lower income tax payers than for the 1% and yes that is a benefit to them yet last month the government set a new record in revenue collections.

If that's being a sucker count me in.

So, Dog’s lying again. I’m shocked:

http://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-revenue-risen-2018

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34 minutes ago, Dog said:

Liar...What I said was that the government set a record for revenues received in October.

Actually what you said was:

On 11/16/2018 at 10:42 PM, Dog said:

...yet last month the government set a new record in revenue collections.

You said it set "a new record in revenue collections" without being clear over what period that record was set. Now that it's clear, and we have further details to look at, it's also clear you're trying to spin a monthly spike as somehow more indicative of economic success than the trend set over a year.

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2 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Actually what you said was:

You said it set "a new record in revenue collections" without being clear over what period that record was set. Now that it's clear, and we have further details to look at, it's also clear you're trying to spin a monthly spike as somehow more indicative of economic success than the trend set over a year.

How do you logically conclude that I was both not clear about over what period that record was set and that I'm trying to spin a monthly spike?

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4 minutes ago, Dog said:

How do you logically conclude that I was both not clear about over what period that record was set...

Because your language was not clear. A record being set last month does not necessarily mean that record is a monthly one. It could be quarterly, it could be yearly. It could be a record over any time period which just happened to end last month. Has you stated, as you later implied, that "the government set a new record in revenue collections in October"; you would have been clear. You didn't, so you weren't.

 

Quote

...and that I'm trying to spin a monthly spike?

Because you have now clarified the record period you were speaking about. That was a monthly spike in revenues that does not match the yearly trend. You are pushing it as something that negates you being a sucker. In other words, "spin".

 

Any other questions that an eight year old could answer having read my post or do you think you look stupid enough with what you've got?

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6 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Because your language was not clear. A record being set last month does not necessarily mean that record is a monthly one. It could be quarterly, it could be yearly. It could be a record over any time period which just happened to end last month. Has you stated, as you later implied, that "the government set a new record in revenue collections in October"; you would have been clear. You didn't, so you weren't.

 

Because you have now clarified the record period you were speaking about. That was a monthly spike in revenues that does not match the yearly trend. You are pushing it as something that negates you being a sucker. In other words, "spin".

 

Any other questions that an eight year old could answer having read my post or do you think you look stupid enough with what you've got?

Ha ha ha....see Bent spin.

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Well, October is when taxes are due for those who file for an extension (me). My K1 and 1099s never seem to be ready until around 4/13 so my personal accountant always has to file for an extension to get all my shit together. Anyhow, that's why Oct. could have been a big month.

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1 hour ago, austin1972 said:

Well, October is when taxes are due for those who file for an extension (me). My K1 and 1099s never seem to be ready until around 4/13 so my personal accountant always has to file for an extension to get all my shit together. Anyhow, that's why Oct. could have been a big month.

@Dog doesn’t pay attention to little things like that. Or that with a booming economy taxes SHOULD be coming in fast, not barely moving yr/yr. 

and the doggie loves him some good old fashioned deficit spending.

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3 hours ago, austin1972 said:

Well, October is when taxes are due for those who file for an extension (me). My K1 and 1099s never seem to be ready until around 4/13 so my personal accountant always has to file for an extension to get all my shit together. Anyhow, that's why Oct. could have been a big month.

October 15 is not when taxes are due for filers who are on extension (me too). There may be some minimal revenue generated by extension filers who underestimated their tax liability. Doubt that is really significant.

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52 minutes ago, Dog said:

October 15 is not when taxes are due for filers who are on extension (me too). There may be some minimal revenue generated by extension filers who underestimated their tax liability. Doubt that is really significant.

Hahahahahahaha

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58 minutes ago, Dog said:

October 15 is not when taxes are due for filers who are on extension (me too). There may be some minimal revenue generated by extension filers who underestimated their tax liability. Doubt that is really significant.

Yeah, you're right - $Trillion tax cuts always increase government revenue.

image.png.c31f79edc1af38f77b78df93eeff244a.png

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50 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Hahahahahahaha

And besides record revenues include revenues over and above any prior months including months with filing deadlines

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41 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah, you're right - $Trillion tax cuts always increase government revenue.

image.png.c31f79edc1af38f77b78df93eeff244a.png

Not always. You must be one of those static model morons?

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13 minutes ago, Dog said:

Not always. You must be one of those static model morons?

ooohhhhh  is it time for the Laffer curve? what shitty model are you going to truck out next dog!?

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Just now, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

ooohhhhh  is it time for the Laffer curve? what shitty model are you going to truck out next dog!?

Are you a static model moron too?

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

And besides record revenues include revenues over and above any prior months including months with filing deadlines

You do realize that with a growing economy tax receipts SHOULD be a record every month?

yet, they aren’t keeping up with republican spending. @Dog loves him some deficits

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22 minutes ago, Dog said:

Not always. You must be one of those static model morons?

No, I just spent the majority of my working life in the international finance industry - as did my wife.

I (we) actually know something about how money works - unlike you idiot right wingers who just gobble up the lies and deceptions fed you by the 1%.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/study-links-low-intelligence-with-right-wing-beliefs/article543361/

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

You do realize that with a growing economy tax receipts SHOULD be a record every month?

yet, they aren’t keeping up with republican spending. @Dog loves him some deficits

You do realize that cutting taxes is stimulative and contributes to a growing economy?

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58 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

No, I just spent the majority of my working life in the international finance industry - as did my wife.

I (we) actually know something about how money works - unlike you idiot right wingers who just gobble up the lies and deceptions fed you by the 1%.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/study-links-low-intelligence-with-right-wing-beliefs/article543361/

Are you a static model moron then?

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

You do realize that cutting taxes is stimulative and contributes to a growing economy?

If there is space to grow, yes, otherwise it’s inflationary. Wait, what’s inflation you ask? Ittttssss Baaaacckkkk...

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7 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If there is space to grow, yes, otherwise it’s inflationary. Wait, what’s inflation you ask? Ittttssss Baaaacckkkk...

Really...what difference does it make to the economy if the tax payer spends a dollar or if that dollar is sent to the government  and the government spends it?

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

Really...what difference does it make to the economy if the tax payer spends a dollar or if that dollar is sent to the government  and the government spends it?

You think it’s zero sum? Really? You’re that stupid?

 

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Just now, Raz'r said:

You think it’s zero sum? Really? You’re that stupid?

 

That was a silly question.

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55 minutes ago, Dog said:

You do realize that cutting taxes is stimulative and contributes to a growing economy?

which is why it's so ineffective during recessions. Who knew the Canine is a closet Keynesian?

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45 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You think it’s zero sum? Really? You’re that stupid?

 

Why is it inflationary if the tax payer spends the dollar and not inflationary if the government spends it?

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

Why is it inflationary if the tax payer spends the dollar and not inflationary if the government spends it?

Ok, let’s do a little thought experiment.

say a consumer has $1000, and will spend it or pay taxes.

the government is going to spend $1000

100% tax, consumer spends $0, govt spends $1000.

50% tax, consumer spends $500, govt spends $1000 (borrows $500)

0% tax, spending is $2000

 

the above is Trumps tax cut. Taxes were cut, but spending was not. Hell, spending was increased. 

 

Shit Dog, that’s not even Econ 101. That’s remedial.

 

now please stick to what you do best. Lie for Trump.

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47 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Ok, let’s do a little thought experiment.

say a consumer has $1000, and will spend it or pay taxes.

the government is going to spend $1000

100% tax, consumer spends $0, govt spends $1000.

50% tax, consumer spends $500, govt spends $1000 (borrows $500)

0% tax, spending is $2000

 

the above is Trumps tax cut. Taxes were cut, but spending was not. Hell, spending was increased. 

 

Shit Dog, that’s not even Econ 101. That’s remedial.

 

now please stick to what you do best. Lie for Trump.

Following Trump's tax cuts revenues from tax payers have been up and revenues from corporate taxes down with a net slightly to the down side and then last month revenues were up.

You appear to be attempting  to make the case that excessive government spending is inflationary but we are not discussing the effects of excessive spending here. BTW...I have railed against excessive spending on this forum for years.

The claim you need to defend is your claim that tax cuts are (or can be) inflationary. So I'll ask you again; Why is it inflationary if the tax payer keeps and spends the dollar and not inflationary if the government spends it?

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9 hours ago, Dog said:

Ha ha ha....see Bent spin.

Small mind. 

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18 minutes ago, Dog said:

Following Trump's tax cuts revenues from tax payers have been up and revenues from corporate taxes down with a net slightly to the down side and then last month revenues were up.

You appear to be attempting  to make the case that excessive government spending is inflationary but we are not discussing the effects of excessive spending here. BTW...I have railed against excessive spending on this forum for years.

The claim you need to defend is your claim that tax cuts are (or can be) inflationary. So I'll ask you again; Why is it inflationary if the tax payer keeps and spends the dollar and not inflationary if the government spends it?

Dude, because the govt has to borrow more money, that’s it. Don’t be a dumbass. Leave that to Saorsa.

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19 minutes ago, Dog said:

BTW...I have railed against excessive spending on this forum for years

Except when it's needed to reach your partys political goals. Then you are fine with it, right Mr. Build a Wall?

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

Are you a static model moron then?

I'm afraid you have a copyright on moron.

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You think it’s zero sum? Really? You’re that stupid?

You have to ask?

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12 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You have to ask?

It's a rhetorical question

 

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Dude, because the govt has to borrow more money, that’s it. Don’t be a dumbass. Leave that to Saorsa.

That's the result of deficit spending not tax cuts and definitely not tax cuts that have had only a minimal affect on revenues...idiot

 

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Can you spell Dunning-Kruger children?

 

I knew that you could.

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15 hours ago, Dog said:

Liar...What I said was that the government set a record for revenues received in October.

You made a factual statement. He called you a liar by changing what you said. This dishonest tactic of the left on PA is commonplace. After the Huge Consequential Lies of Obama, they are desperate to cast the right as liars too. Dishonesty likes company. It is a level of hypocrisy only a Democrat can aspire to.

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Back to the OP. This is not about the last tax cut. Trump talked up a new tax cut, first said it would be before the election, then said it would come after the election. Now it appears that the tax cut Trump talked up is not going to happen.

Who here is surprised?

Anyone heard about the migrant caravan lately?

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On 11/17/2018 at 12:51 AM, bhyde said:

Yes, of course, the corporate tax reduction from 35% to 21% was aimed mainly at the lower income tax payers who own large, profitable corporation.

The tax payers who own corporations pay both the corporate and individual tax.

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18 hours ago, Dog said:

You do realize that cutting taxes is stimulative and contributes to a growing economy?

Here's the problem I have with that philosophy, and note that this is my personal experience.

I've made poverty wages and middle income wages and stupid fucking rich wages. From $21K/year to $36,500 every 2 weeks. My lifestyle never significantly changed except one doesn't live in section 8 housing when one is making the latter.

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59 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

Here's the problem I have with that philosophy, and note that this is my personal experience.

I've made poverty wages and middle income wages and stupid fucking rich wages. From $21K/year to $36,500 every 2 weeks. My lifestyle never significantly changed except one doesn't live in section 8 housing when one is making the latter.

That's nice...Now if you believe tax cut are not stimulative please make the case for why they are not.

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Educate yourself.

First tell us what schools you attended so we can avoid them.

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

First tell us what schools you attended so we can avoid them.

i think he read the 20-somethings with little economic knowledge churning out WSJ opeds and took them as gospel. trickle down, that bullshittery.

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2 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Of course further taxcuts have been shelved, elections have consequences.

Further tax cuts were vaporware. Nobody thought Trump was going to really do it, it was just another lie.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

That's nice...Now if you believe tax cut are not stimulative please make the case for why they are not.

Already did. Full capacity.Inflation is back.

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I don't know why you say that Ish. I mean you might be right but if such a promise resulted in the R's holding the house, why would Trump not pursue them, notch his belt if successful, leverage it in two years either way. If successful he would be able to tout another promise kept. If unsuccessful he can lay blame with those who thwarted those efforts. The only lose for Trump would be if both house and senate were to pass further tax cuts and he refused to sign them..... and even then he could make a case that they were the wrong tax cuts in the bill because of the deficit or who they may impact the most.

Frankly if I were him, I would push this lame duck congress to send him a tax cut bill before the new congress is sworn in. What do they have to lose really?  Then when Nancy and Company try to go in another direction he can use it as a negotiating chip or simple tell them to pound sand and cut spending.

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Already did. Full capacity.Inflation is back.

Interesting. So you think running the presses 24/7 over the past 8 years is not a driving force to inflationary pressures?

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

i think he read the 20-somethings with little economic knowledge churning out WSJ opeds and took them as gospel. trickle down, that bullshittery.

The only people a booming economy really leaves behind, in most part, are those not fully engaged in the workforce.... read that as those whose primary income is public assistance.

Is logic something of the past around these parts? Serious question.

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On 11/15/2018 at 8:12 PM, bhyde said:

Well, looks like that big 'ol middle-class tax cut didn't make it past the mid-terms. What a shock. 

White House, McConnell omit promised tax cut from recap of lame-duck agenda

President Trump told Senate Republican leaders on Thursday that his top lame-duck priorities include passing a spending bill with border security funds and approving new prison reform legislation — but middle-class tax cuts appear to have fallen from the agenda.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/white-house-mcconnell-omit-promised-tax-cut-from-recap-of-lame-duck-agenda

Gonna happen before the midterms, when Congress wasn’t even in session. He was just New Yorking a bit. 

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44 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

The only people a booming economy really leaves behind, in most part, are those not fully engaged in the workforce.... read that as those whose primary income is public assistance.

Is logic something of the past around these parts? Serious question.

sweet non sequitur mr. logic.

you really think there was ever a plan for a tax cut? it was just Trump bullshitting, dumbass.

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On 11/16/2018 at 5:42 AM, Dog said:

Rates were cut more for lower income tax payers than for the 1% and yes that is a benefit to them yet last month the government set a new record in revenue collections.

If that's being a sucker count me in.

They still don't get it....

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59 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

 

sweet non sequitur mr. logic.

you really think there was ever a plan for a tax cut? it was just Trump bullshitting, dumbass.

I don't know if there was or wasn't, I just laid out a series of good reasons he should pursue such a tact.

Sorry if that was over your head.

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5 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

I don't know if there was or wasn't, I just laid out a series of good reasons he should pursue such a tact.

Sorry if that was over your head.

you are very smart, very serious, very intellectual bill. terribly smart. the best smarts. too smart for PA, everyone says "that bill, way to smart for PA" but Bill says, I go to PA anyway, I help those people.

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9 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

I don't know if there was or wasn't, I just laid out a series of good reasons he should pursue such a tact tack.

Sorry if that was over your head.

This is a sailing site.  At least get that right.

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28 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

you are very smart, very serious, very intellectual bill. terribly smart. the best smarts. too smart for PA, everyone says "that bill, way to smart for PA" but Bill says, I go to PA anyway, I help those people.

Dunning & Kruger say it so it must be so.

He was one of their best subjects.

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7 hours ago, Dog said:

That's nice...Now if you believe tax cut are not stimulative please make the case for why they are not.

In a smoking hot economy, I don't believe they do shit. Now, if you want to argue that anyone making less than $15/hr shouldn't be taxed at all, you'd have my ear.

 

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3 hours ago, austin1972 said:

In a smoking hot economy, I don't believe they do shit.

They increase the deficit and cause inflation in that circumstance - nothing more.

The idea behind stimulative tax cuts is to use them in a BAD economy. When times are good your taxes should be increased and used to pay down the debt.

A very simple concept but apparently not simple enough for these right wing simpletons.

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16 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

you are very smart, very serious, very intellectual bill. terribly smart. the best smarts. too smart for PA, everyone says "that bill, way to smart for PA" but Bill says, I go to PA anyway, I help those people.

I deal in ideas. If that intimidates you then I truly feel sorry for you. That is really the only conclusion I can draw from your body of work. That others here make you feel insignificant and thus you lash out rather then present your case, your slant, or your ideas.

Glad to hear your thoughts rather then this onslaught of nonsense you post that amount to absolutely zip. I have little faith you have the testicular fortitude to even attempt that.

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16 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Dunning & Kruger say it so it must be so.

He was one of their best subjects.

Mirror mirror on the wall...…...

I think your Dunning & Kruger analogy has application here, just terribly misdirected.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They increase the deficit and cause inflation in that circumstance - nothing more.

The idea behind stimulative tax cuts is to use them in a BAD economy. When times are good your taxes should be increased and used to pay down the debt.

A very simple concept but apparently not simple enough for these right wing simpletons.

That's because John Maynard Keynes was an evil progressive libtard cuck. No wait, he was a faggot commie!

Well, in point of actual fact, he was homosexual

We cannot possibly make use of these economic principles based on judging the sexual identity of the economist who proposed them.

-DSK

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1 hour ago, BillDBastard said:

Mirror mirror on the wall...…...

I think your Dunning & Kruger analogy has application here, just terribly misdirected.

Dunning-Kruger is an effect, not an analogy, ideaman. 

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10 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They increase the deficit and cause inflation in that circumstance - nothing more.

The idea behind stimulative tax cuts is to use them in a BAD economy. When times are good your taxes should be increased and used to pay down the debt.

A very simple concept but apparently not simple enough for these right wing simpletons.

What is inflationary and increases the deficit is spending in excess of revenues which is something the clowns in Washington have done and will do regardless of how much money the people send them.

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4 minutes ago, Dog said:

What is inflationary and increases the deficit is spending in excess of revenues which is something the clowns in Washington have done and will do regardless of how much money the people send them.

but you got a tax cut!

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

What is inflationary and increases the deficit is spending in excess of revenues which is something the clowns in Washington have done and will do regardless of how much money the people send them.

Exactly, which means a tax cut is inflationary. Glad you came around.

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31 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Exactly, which means a tax cut is inflationary. Glad you came around.

Only to the static model morons who believes that tax cuts necessarily result in lower revenues.

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7 minutes ago, Dog said:

Only to the static model morons who believes that tax cuts necessarily result in lower revenues.

Deficits were projected to increase under the recent tax cuts because revenue wouldn't increase enough to cover spending.

spare me the alternate universe bullshittery, it was predicted what would happen. 

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29 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Deficits were projected to increased under the recent tax cuts because revenue wouldn't increase enough to cover spending.

spare me the alternate universe bullshittery, it was known what would happen. 

See post 80

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

What is inflationary and increases the deficit is spending in excess of revenues which is something the clowns in Washington have done and will do regardless of how much money the people send them.

That is a PART of driving inflation.

You know - like fighting two wars on the cuff, introducing huge tax cuts for the rich in a hot economy - that sort of thing.

Jeezzuss :rolleyes:

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43 minutes ago, Dog said:

Only to the static model morons who believes that tax cuts necessarily result in lower revenues.

I like your recent fixation on the term "static model"

Did you struggle through an actual book recently or something?

Can we expect you to introduce "zero sum" soon?

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53 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That is a PART of driving inflation.

You know - like fighting two wars on the cuff, introducing huge tax cuts for the rich in a hot economy - that sort of thing.

Jeezzuss :rolleyes:

Fighting 2 wars goes under the heading of spending in excess of revenues I noted above and how do tax cuts contribute to inflation if they are revenue neutral?

Jeezzuss

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7 minutes ago, Dog said:

Fighting 2 wars goes under the heading of spending in excess of revenues I noted above and how do tax cuts contribute to inflation if they are revenue neutral?

Jeezzuss

They are not revenue neutral. Booming economy and revenues aren’t keeping pace...

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

They are not revenue neutral. Booming economy and revenues aren’t keeping pace...

If last month is any indication they are.

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