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43 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
5 hours ago, cmilliken said:

I honestly don't see much difference between her works and people like Orwell or Huxley except she's more optimistic.

One major difference is Huxley & Orwell were both much better writers, who wrote far more, with far more interest in humanity. If you are only comparing 1984/Animal Farm and Brave New World to Rand's work, perhaps. But there are far more works from both Orwell and Huxley worth a read. Diversity of subject matter and humanity. Rand has a couple stereotypes and a singular vision poorly fleshed out.

When I was about 12, I remember being blown away by "The Fountainhead." I was quite a bit more blown away by "Stranger In A Strange Land." Sometime in my twenties, in the service, I went back and tried to read some Ayn Rand and was appalled by the tedious dogmatic two-dimensional-ness of it all, couldn't even finish "Atlas Shrugged." OTOH going back to reread "Animal Farm" I was struck by some of the subtle touches and humor in it. Orwell also wrote the autobiographical "Down and Out in Paris and London" which I recommend.

It may have to do with Rand's Russian cultural background, most Russian authors tend to drone on and on and on. I have a number of friends who moved to the US from Russia, and several family members who speak Russian and did business in Russia (in the pre-Putin era), and they say it's a product of the long Russian winters, they find entertainment in the lengthy depression, which emphasizes the uplift of spring finally arriving. Also, when you buy a Russian car, you have to pay extra for headlights that work. Whatever, "War and Peace" is a great story, and if you get impatient you can skip ahead thru quite a bit of it.

-DSK

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Rand struck me as turgid and self important, the sort of thing a teenage boy would like. Then as adults, those elderly boys name-check Rand but never quote her; if they do, they quote her to each other. She's big with conservatives (Paul Ryan gave out her books, Alan Greenspan was a friend, ...) but they are singularly bad at explaining why. I think it's because she offers them a safe fantasy land where her/their really bad ideas go unchallenged. I'll admit I haven't finished anything she wrote but that's because she's a really bad writer. Nabokov was a conservative but his writing is Great. He wrote English better than the vast vast majority of native writers. Tom Wolfe was a conservative and even a fan of Shitstain. But he was a fine writer. Ayn Rand was just utter crap, full of universal claims without any evidence or experience. Humorless.

Orwell. Animal Farm is sheer fun, as a kid and as an adult. It isn't self important or turgid and we do quote it endlessly. Politics and the English Language is probably the best writer's writing advice. Shooting An Elephant explained the folly of our Iraq occupation better than any thing else I've read. 1984 was quoted in one of my engineering discussion sections at Berkeley; it was the book when I was there. Down and Out was a little close to the bone. It was his first and it's a little rough.

You come away from Orwell a better reader and and a better writer.

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2 hours ago, jzk said:

I agree with you about the wall.  

We need a socialized police force, military and court system.  Not because socialism works all that well, but because there is no alternative that I can think of.

Interfering with individuals ability to make agreements for themselves hurts them.  Like minimum wage.  It hurts poor people.  Government backed unions hurt poor people also.  They exclude poor people from jobs that they would otherwise be able to get.  

Minimum wage hurts poor people? Holy shit, you have some bizarre ideas.

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Minimum wage hurts poor people? Holy shit, you have some bizarre ideas.

Lots of folks, even economists, took it on faith that minimum wages reduced employment. Data taken from natural experiments show that isn't strictly true. Eg. Card and Krueger https://www.nber.org/papers/w4509

On April 1, 1992 New Jersey's minimum wage increased from $4.25 to $5.05 per hour. To evaluate the impact of the law we surveyed 410 fast food restaurants in New Jersey and Pennsylvania before and after the rise in the minimum. Comparisons of the changes in wages, employment, and prices at stores in New Jersey relative to stores in Pennsylvania (where the minimum wage remained fixed at $4.25 per hour) yield simple estimates of the effect of the higher minimum wage. Our empirical findings challenge the prediction that a rise in the minimum reduces employment. Relative to stores in Pennsylvania, fast food restaurants in New Jersey increased employment by 13 percent. We also compare employment growth at stores in New Jersey that were initially paying high wages (and were unaffected by the new law) to employment changes at lower-wage stores. Stores that were unaffected by the minimum wage had the same employment growth as stores in Pennsylvania, while stores that had to increase their wages increased their employment.

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

When I was about 12, I remember being blown away by "The Fountainhead." I was quite a bit more blown away by "Stranger In A Strange Land." Sometime in my twenties, in the service, I went back and tried to read some Ayn Rand and was appalled by the tedious dogmatic two-dimensional-ness of it all, couldn't even finish "Atlas Shrugged." OTOH going back to reread "Animal Farm" I was struck by some of the subtle touches and humor in it. Orwell also wrote the autobiographical "Down and Out in Paris and London" which I recommend.

It may have to do with Rand's Russian cultural background, most Russian authors tend to drone on and on and on. I have a number of friends who moved to the US from Russia, and several family members who speak Russian and did business in Russia (in the pre-Putin era), and they say it's a product of the long Russian winters, they find entertainment in the lengthy depression, which emphasizes the uplift of spring finally arriving. Also, when you buy a Russian car, you have to pay extra for headlights that work. Whatever, "War and Peace" is a great story, and if you get impatient you can skip ahead thru quite a bit of it.

-DSK

My daughter actually has a minor in Russian literature - we've often joked that no one can out suffer a Russian :)  One of her assignments was to compare how three authors - all survivors of the Russian re-education camps - dealt with their particular circumstances and outlook on life afterwards.  I've never read "Down and Out in Paris and London".  I'll check it out!  Thanks.

 

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

When I was about 12, I remember being blown away by "The Fountainhead." I was quite a bit more blown away by "Stranger In A Strange Land." Sometime in my twenties, in the service, I went back and tried to read some Ayn Rand and was appalled by the tedious dogmatic two-dimensional-ness of it all, couldn't even finish "Atlas Shrugged." OTOH going back to reread "Animal Farm" I was struck by some of the subtle touches and humor in it. Orwell also wrote the autobiographical "Down and Out in Paris and London" which I recommend.

It may have to do with Rand's Russian cultural background, most Russian authors tend to drone on and on and on. I have a number of friends who moved to the US from Russia, and several family members who speak Russian and did business in Russia (in the pre-Putin era), and they say it's a product of the long Russian winters, they find entertainment in the lengthy depression, which emphasizes the uplift of spring finally arriving. Also, when you buy a Russian car, you have to pay extra for headlights that work. Whatever, "War and Peace" is a great story, and if you get impatient you can skip ahead thru quite a bit of it.

-DSK

I'd never looked at "down and out" - the synopsis looks interesting, added to the read list.   

 

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On 1/9/2019 at 5:39 PM, cmilliken said:

Rand  had her life destroyed by government several times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand)

"Rand was born <snip> on February 2, 1905, to a Russian-Jewish bourgeois family living in Saint Petersburg.[12] Her father was upwardly mobile and a pharmacist and her mother was socially ambitious and religiously observant. <snip>

The subsequent October Revolution and the rule of the Bolsheviks under Vladimir Lenin disrupted the life the family had previously enjoyed. Her father's business was confiscated, and the family fled to the Crimean Peninsula, which was initially under control of the White Army during the Russian Civil War. While in high school, she realized that she was an atheist and valued reason above any other human virtue. After graduating from high school in the Crimea in June 1921, she returned with her family to Petrograd (as Saint Petersburg was renamed at that time), where they faced desperate conditions, on occasion nearly starving.

Rand completed a three-year program at Petrograd State University.  <snip> Along with many other bourgeois students, she was purged from the university shortly before graduating. After complaints from a group of visiting foreign scientists, however, many of the purged students were allowed to complete their work and graduate,[24] which she did in October 1924.

--------------

She's watched her father's career destroyed.  She's seen her families wealth seized in the name of the greater good.  She's starved.  She's been kicked out of university.  She's an atheist.  The destruction of her family isn't 'God's will' - it's the result of an authoritarian state doing things 'for the good of the people'.  Given her background, I think her perspective in books like Atlas Shrugged is pretty much expected.

 

Government destroyed her life so bad she had to mooch off government handouts in her waning days.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ayn-rand-social-security

http://www.openculture.com/2016/12/when-ayn-rand-collected-social-security-medicare.html

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She was also college educated in Russia at Petrograd Sate University, same as Putin and Medvedev.

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On 1/10/2019 at 11:46 AM, Ishmael said:

Minimum wage hurts poor people? Holy shit, you have some bizarre ideas.

Minimum wage prices poor people out of the market.  Let's say I have 2 employees.  I have a guy worth $7.50 and a guy worth $15.  If minimum wage gets raised to $15, am I going to keep the $7.50 guy, and pay him $15, or am I going to find a guy worth $15 to pay $15?

This position on minimum wage is the only logical position.  So, what does the left do?  They do studies of small increases in minimum wage that show that when you increase minimum wage a little, you only get a little employment displacement.  Or, if it is little enough, you can't see the displacement in the noise of the data.  

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On 1/10/2019 at 12:46 PM, Ishmael said:

Minimum wage hurts poor people? Holy shit, you have some bizarre ideas.

We've had a lot of increases and the bottom 20% is still there.

Giving people money doesn't solve the problems of poverty any more than forcing them to buy insurance improves their health.

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36 minutes ago, jzk said:

Minimum wage prices poor people out of the market.  Let's say I have 2 employees.  I have a guy worth $7.50 and a guy worth $15.  If minimum wage gets raised to $15, am I going to keep the $7.50 guy, and pay him $15, or am I going to find a guy worth $15 to pay $15?

This position on minimum wage is the only logical position.  So, what does the left do?  They do studies of small increases in minimum wage that show that when you increase minimum wage a little, you only get a little employment displacement.  Or, if it is little enough, you can't see the displacement in the noise of the data.  

 

No, it isn't

It is the only position YOU wish to acknowledge, because of your ignorance and inability to discuss the basic principles of economics

-DSK

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46 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

No, it isn't

It is the only position YOU wish to acknowledge, because of your ignorance and inability to discuss the basic principles of economics

-DSK

Basic principles like if you raise the price of something, people buy less of it.  Or basic principles like businesses tend not to pay more for something than it is worth.  

Those kinds of principles?

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25 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

You probably shouldn't make such claims.

that's right. there's only one position that's correct and it's the libertarian one. You guys are right about everything.

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

that's right. there's only one position that's correct and it's the libertarian one. You guys are right about everything.

The horrors of free people voluntarily interacting and trading with each other.  We can't trust them to do that. 

We need other people to tell them what they can and cannot do.

 

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45 minutes ago, jzk said:

Basic principles like if you raise the price of something, people buy less of it.  Or basic principles like businesses tend not to pay more for something than it is worth.  

Those kinds of principles?

One at a time, how about instead of looking at a muddled heap of parroted phrases, we look at things in an orderly logical way. "Basic principles like if you raise the price of something, people buy less of it" is indeed a generally-accepted economic concept, does it apply universally? Specifically, does it apply to low-wage (presumably low-skill) labor? I would suggest you look at the marginal productivity of wage, which will be specific to various industries, at the lower end of the curve.

Don't people who have better nutrition and healthier lives generally make more productive workers? Doesn't a loaf of bread cost the same to people making 10$/hr or 100$/hr? How about health care, a commonly-debated topic?

You have never even attempted to grasp this kind of rational approach. Maybe you're finally ready?

-DSK

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The left think most people are not equipped to think for themselves and act within their own self-interests. That only a "collective" approach possesses the degree of wisdom which we as a society should pursue. Together we are enlightened and separately we are incapable.

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12 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

The left think most people are not equipped to think for themselves and act within their own self-interests. That only a "collective" approach possesses the degree of wisdom which we as a society should pursue. Together we are enlightened and separately we are incapable.

I would not have thought of this as a particularly "Left-ish" expression, but perhaps the words you are groping for are "United We Stand."

I thought "the right" was supposed to understand business and capitalism? So far, none you all seem to know anything other trying to cheap-shit your way to prosperity.

-DSK

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37 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

One at a time, how about instead of looking at a muddled heap of parroted phrases, we look at things in an orderly logical way. "Basic principles like if you raise the price of something, people buy less of it" is indeed a generally-accepted economic concept, does it apply universally? Specifically, does it apply to low-wage (presumably low-skill) labor? I would suggest you look at the marginal productivity of wage, which will be specific to various industries, at the lower end of the curve.

Don't people who have better nutrition and healthier lives generally make more productive workers? Doesn't a loaf of bread cost the same to people making 10$/hr or 100$/hr? How about health care, a commonly-debated topic?

You have never even attempted to grasp this kind of rational approach. Maybe you're finally ready?

-DSK

If it were true that productivity increased as you suggest, then the market would raise the wage automatically. 

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Just now, jzk said:

If it were true that productivity increased as you suggest, then the market would raise the wage automatically. 

Well, there are certainly many cases where it does; and there are certainly many cases where "the market" doesn't work as automagically as you believe. I've already shown you a whole bunch of real-world cases that contradict your parroting. Are you ready to actually learn something?

-DSK

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, there are certainly many cases where it does; and there are certainly many cases where "the market" doesn't work as automagically as you believe. I've already shown you a whole bunch of real-world cases that contradict your parroting. Are you ready to actually learn something?

-DSK

If it were automatic that a $7.50 person became worth $15 by virtue of paying $15, some smart business owner would do it and hire up all of the $7.50 people to gain an advantage over everyone else.  Has that happened?

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47 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

The left think most people are not equipped to think for themselves and act within their own self-interests. 

Science does too. Sorry it runs into your dogma. 

Now - hows that cheaper private education coming? That failed state healthcare? What other truths have you discovered that are poorly represented by numbers?

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

If it were automatic that a $7.50 person became worth $15 by virtue of paying $15, some smart business owner would do it and hire up all of the $7.50 people to gain an advantage over everyone else.  Has that happened?

Hey stupid, quote where I said it was "automatic"

Also, as a test, see if you can explain what marginal rates for labor are. I suspect you don't understand, hence the parroting.

{edit to add} Perhaps you'd like to pop over to this other thread and take a swing at explaining why the free market doesn't lower consumer credit rates.

-DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey stupid, quote where I said it was "automatic"

Also, as a test, see if you can explain what marginal rates for labor are. I suspect you don't understand, hence the parroting.

-DSK

You should start a business, find all of the entry level people you can, and pay them $15.00.  You can finally make some money and maybe even get a Nobel Prize in economics for the new economic "principle" that you discovered.

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9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey stupid, quote where I said it was "automatic"

Also, as a test, see if you can explain what marginal rates for labor are. I suspect you don't understand, hence the parroting.

{edit to add} Perhaps you'd like to pop over to this other thread and take a swing at explaining why the free market doesn't lower consumer credit rates.

-DSK

Why should it be lower?  

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7 minutes ago, jzk said:
10 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey stupid, quote where I said it was "automatic"

Also, as a test, see if you can explain what marginal rates for labor are. I suspect you don't understand, hence the parroting.

 

You should start a business, find all of the entry level people you can, and pay them $15.00.  You can finally make some money and maybe even get a Nobel Prize in economics for the new economic "principle" that you discovered.

So, another fail. On so many levels.

First of all, I've said many times that I am happily (and relatively comfortably) retired. I have no need to "finally make some money" in fact I strongly suspect that I'm several income brackets above you.

Secondly, nothing new at all. No Nobel Prize to be won here, alas. Just more stuff you know nothing about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_revenue_productivity_theory_of_wages

-DSK

 

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:
13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

{edit to add} Perhaps you'd like to pop over to this other thread and take a swing at explaining why the free market doesn't lower consumer credit rates.

 

Why should it be lower?  

 

Why should businesses be able to borrow money at less than 5% (considerably less, in fact) and then turn around and charge everyday people more than 3X that? Shouldn't the free market work toward providing lower cost credit to consumers, when credit is clearly available at much lower cost?

You've said the free market should provide me with multiple cheaper options for internet service, in fact you've insisted so many times and called me a liar. What's the problem here?

-DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Why should businesses be able to borrow money at less than 5% (considerably less, in fact) and then turn around and charge everyday people more than 3X that? Shouldn't the free market work toward providing lower cost credit to consumers, when credit is clearly available at much lower cost?

You've said the free market should provide me with multiple cheaper options for internet service, in fact you've insisted so many times and called me a liar. What's the problem here?

-DSK

That is like saying the fee market "owes" you a new car for $10,0000.  Why do you think such silly things?

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

That is like saying the fee market "owes" you a new car for $10,0000.  Why do you think such silly things?

I don't think these things at all, this is straight from your previous posts.

BTW -I- can explain why market rates for credit don't converge. Apparently you cannot

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

I don't think these things at all, this is straight from your previous posts.

BTW -I- can explain why market rates for credit don't converge. Apparently you cannot

-DSK

Yeah, maybe you should try making a case for something.  Anything.

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Here is a fun fact - the woman that the nutters hate has a real degree in economics from a real university.

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6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I don't think these things at all, this is straight from your previous posts.

BTW -I- can explain why market rates for credit don't converge. Apparently you cannot

-DSK

If someone wants to loan you money at 4%, and you want to borrow it, it is perfectly ok by me.  The last thing we need is a clown like you deciding how much people "should" loan money for.

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8 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Here is a fun fact - the woman that the nutters hate has a real degree in economics from a real university.

“You don’t really make a profit in your first year." “To get taxed on top of that is a real whammy.” AO-C in 2012 (taxes were bad when she had her own business)

Now she is a firm believer in higher taxes. Then again, she is the poster woman for NYC DSA:

 

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She is young, smart and motivated and dedicated to shaking things up.  In other words she shares one characteristic with Trump.  You go girl.

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55 minutes ago, jzk said:

If someone wants to loan you money at 4%, and you want to borrow it, it is perfectly ok by me.  The last thing we need is a clown like you deciding how much people "should" loan money for.


"Asymmetrical information is the provenance of scoundrels"  You are setting yourself up to be fleeced, especially in today's data filled world.  You may want to loan at 4%, but someone else loans at 6%.  You don't know this until later.  Arbitrage of credit rates is fast diminishing.  In this case, the "should" becomes the almighty invisible hand.  And even then, credit rates end up being different.  Of course this is entirely different for currency providers (countries) because they also deal in another dimension which is the value of the currency.

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

Here is a fun fact - the woman that the nutters hate has a real degree in economics from a real university.

silly, you know this isn't about knowledge. this is about her challenge to their orthodoxy. Republicans have been fine with MMT spending for 35 years - as long as the debt allows military spending and taxcuts for the rich.

 

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18 hours ago, d'ranger said:

She is young, smart and motivated and dedicated to shaking things up.  In other words she shares one characteristic with Trump.  You go girl.

Her idea of a shakeup would not benefit the establishment and/or the .01%. How can anyone really shake things up unless the Best Americans benefit?

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:
20 hours ago, d'ranger said:

She is young, smart and motivated and dedicated to shaking things up.  In other words she shares one characteristic with Trump.  You go girl.

Her idea of a shakeup would not benefit the establishment and/or the .01%. How can anyone really shake things up unless the Best Americans benefit?

She is setting about "burning this bitch down" in her own way.  She's got folks concerned.  Especially the GOP.  

Why else would these folks be attacking a freshman Rep, who will have no real power?

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

She is setting about "burning this bitch down" in her own way.  She's got folks concerned.  Especially the GOP.  

Why else would these folks be attacking a freshman Rep, who will have no real power?

Guilt by association fallacy; to try to paint her as the mainstream democRAT party. 

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16 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Guilt by association fallacy; to try to paint her as the mainstream democRAT party. 

Yep, Nancy is pulling her and those of her ilk into line.

 

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20 hours ago, d'ranger said:

She is young, smart and motivated and dedicated to shaking things up.  In other words she shares one characteristic with Trump.  You go girl.

She is smart and is marketing a compelling message, if you don't understand economics and history, that is.  She just needs to consult with her staff before making statements a little, and then she is going to be a force.  

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52 minutes ago, jzk said:
21 hours ago, d'ranger said:

She is young, smart and motivated and dedicated to shaking things up.  In other words she shares one characteristic with Trump.  You go girl.

She is smart and is marketing a compelling message, if you don't understand economics and history, that is.  ....    ...    ...

Perfect for you.

My neighbor has a macaw that understands economics and history better than you do

-DSK

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44 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Perfect for you.

My neighbor has a macaw that understands economics and history better than you do

-DSK

You should ask him about the other internet services available in your town.

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17 minutes ago, jzk said:

You should ask him about the other internet services available in your town.

He is restricted in his internet services access.  The business case for competition in this market may not be there.  A review of Porter's Five Forces may be in order.

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22 minutes ago, Laker said:

He is restricted in his internet services access.  The business case for competition in this market may not be there.  A review of Porter's Five Forces may be in order.

He has more than one service available, yet he falsely claims that there is only one.  

I have a boat in a marina in Florida.  Internet access sucks.  It sucks because it is a little bit away from any other residential or commercial areas, so there is not much call for service there.  Should our internet access be subsidized by society?  Fuck no.  We have every ability to move somewhere else to get better internet.  

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:
27 minutes ago, Laker said:

He is restricted in his internet services access.  The business case for competition in this market may not be there.  A review of Porter's Five Forces may be in order.

He has more than one service available, yet he falsely claims that there is only one.  

I have a boat in a marina in Florida.  Internet access sucks.  It sucks because it is a little bit away from any other residential or commercial areas, so there is not much call for service there.  Should our internet access be subsidized by society?  Fuck no.  We have every ability to move somewhere else to get better internet.  

 

No, I am pretty sure I said there was only one IN MY COMMUNITY. Not a false claim at all, unlike your repeated screeching insistence that I must be lying.

Fortunately we live in a free country, yes I could move. I could get divorced from Mrs Steam, too, but that would be supremely stupid.

-DSK

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49 minutes ago, jzk said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

My neighbor has a macaw that understands economics and history better than you do

 

You should ask him about the other internet services available in your town.

 

That was funny, well done.

-DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

No, I am pretty sure I said there was only one IN MY COMMUNITY. Not a false claim at all, unlike your repeated screeching insistence that I must be lying.

Fortunately we live in a free country, yes I could move. I could get divorced from Mrs Steam, too, but that would be supremely stupid.

-DSK

Care to post any evidence that you only have one?  

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Care to post any evidence that you only have one?  

Sorry, I thought you'd rather hear my neighbors parrot quoting Adam Smith

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Sorry, I thought you'd rather hear my neighbors parrot quoting Adam Smith

-DSK

I understand.  Just outlandish claims without any evidence in support.  I get it.

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14 minutes ago, jzk said:

I understand.  Just outlandish claims without any evidence in support.  I get it.

Well, you insist  I must be a liar, because my statement disproves your dumbed-down oversimplified economic slogans?

It's more fun to just keep mocking you, and let you continue to display your ignorance and your shitty suspicious attitude.

In addition to suspecting others of lying (because you're a liar yourself?), do you suspect others of being a thief (because........)?

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Well, you insist  I must be a liar, because my statement disproves your dumbed-down oversimplified economic slogans?

It's more fun to just keep mocking you, and let you continue to display your ignorance and your shitty suspicious attitude.

In addition to suspecting others of lying (because you're a liar yourself?), do you suspect others of being a thief (because........)?

-DSK

It is funny when really stupid people mock someone thinking that they are smart.  Go ahead, by all means, continue.

You are the one that made the ridiculous claim that you only have one source of internet access in your town.  Do the two satellite providers not serve your area?  No cell phone internet?

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21 minutes ago, jzk said:

It is funny when really stupid people mock someone thinking that they are smart.  Go ahead, by all means, continue.

You are the one that made the ridiculous claim that you only have one source of internet access in your town.  Do the two satellite providers not serve your area?  No cell phone internet?

You need a hobby.

-DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

You need a hobby.

-DSK

Have you ever noticed that I post sporadically?  But you seem to always be here.

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On 1/13/2019 at 11:55 AM, d'ranger said:

Here is a fun fact - the woman that the nutters hate has a real degree in economics from a real university.

And the President the nutters on the left hate has a real business degree from a real university. 

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30 minutes ago, chinabald said:

And the President the nutters on the left hate has a real business degree from a real university. 

wow. an undergrad business degree!

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56 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

wow. an undergrad business degree!

And six bankruptcies! He's a real pro!

  • Like 1

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15 hours ago, jzk said:

She is smart and is marketing a compelling message, if you don't understand economics and history, that is.  She just needs to consult with her staff before making statements a little, and then she is going to be a force.  

Oh you mean like Donnie consulting with his staff before lying a little, got it.

I didn’t realise Donnie was so strong at history, just this week I learnt a wheel came before a wall, can’t wait till we get to the 21st century.

Economics,  well he has proved to be such a powerhouse in that regard and now that he’s closed down the Guvmint the farmers can’t get their aid for all the tariff affected crops, 800,000 guvmint workers can’t pay their rents or mortgages and the markets well they’re just humming having its worst year since 2008.

She will be Force alright she just needs to put money back into the workers pockets something that Donnie said he would do, along with building a wall.

 

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5 hours ago, Ishmael said:

And six bankruptcies! He's a real pro!

And the US is more than 20 trillion in debt. Super pro! :rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, chinabald said:

And the President the nutters on the left hate has a real business degree from a real university. 

Trump U?

His teachers at Wharton said he was the dumbest person that ever walked thru their doors, and Daddy's money was the only reason he passed.

If you want to point to the "success" of Trump in business, you'll only make a bunch of heartache for yourself. No investor ever made money on his businesses, that's why he ended up getting funding from the Russians.

-DSK

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21 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Trump U?

His teachers at Wharton said he was the dumbest person that ever walked thru their doors, and Daddy's money was the only reason he passed.

If you want to point to the "success" of Trump in business, you'll only make a bunch of heartache for yourself. No investor ever made money on his businesses, that's why he ended up getting funding from the Russians.

-DSK

So what your saying is that merely having the degree from a real school isnt as important as what you do once you are out of school? 

So what value is an economics degree (that d’ranger brought up) without ever working in a job that actually utilized that degree? 

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8 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

wow. an undergrad business degree!

Yes that’s the degree d’ranger brought up. His contention is a real degree from a real university means you can’t criticize. By comparing the two I showed that the left in fact doesn’t see it that way. 

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4 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Yes that’s the degree d’ranger brought up. His contention is a real degree from a real university means you can’t criticize. By comparing the two I showed that the left in fact doesn’t see it that way. 

Thanks tor that Olympic Leap in Logic - this was in response to jzk and company posting about their expertise in economics while deriding hers. Welcome to the broad brush painting society.

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4 minutes ago, chinabald said:

So what your saying is that merely having the degree from a real school isnt as important as what you do once you are out of school? 

So what value is an economics degree (that d’ranger brought up) without ever working in a job that actually utilized that degree? 

I'd say it's some of both. Everybody is impressed by a degree from Harvard for example. But you can certainly find people who got a degree from Harvard and then tripped over their own feet numerous times (possibly fewer than from other universities?)

I'd like to think that my judgement of people is based more on what they've done and how they act, and what they are working towards, than what ticket they've bought. Tat's my personal goal, anyway.

Trump is not what's wrong with the USA. He's a symptom. The fact that 30% or more of the people approve of him as President, not his stated goals (which align with some Reupblican policy anyway), but his hypocrisy and dishonesty and his inability to accomplish those goals, shows that America has got big big problems. Slinging hatred at OCasio fits the pattern. Slinging love at her is just the mirror-image response, which is somewhat nicer but still not smart.

-DSK

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9 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Oh you mean like Donnie consulting with his staff before lying a little, got it.

I didn’t realise Donnie was so strong at history, just this week I learnt a wheel came before a wall, can’t wait till we get to the 21st century.

Economics,  well he has proved to be such a powerhouse in that regard and now that he’s closed down the Guvmint the farmers can’t get their aid for all the tariff affected crops, 800,000 guvmint workers can’t pay their rents or mortgages and the markets well they’re just humming having its worst year since 2008.

She will be Force alright she just needs to put money back into the workers pockets something that Donnie said he would do, along with building a wall.

 

I don't remember mentioning Trump in my comments about Ocasio.  Is Trump permanently stamped to your forehead?

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

Thanks tor that Olympic Leap in Logic - this was in response to jzk and company posting about their expertise in economics while deriding hers. Welcome to the broad brush painting society.

Yes, her degree in "international relations" and minor in economics makes her immune to criticism.  

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'd say it's some of both. Everybody is impressed by a degree from Harvard for example. But you can certainly find people who got a degree from Harvard and then tripped over their own feet numerous times (possibly fewer than from other universities?)

I'd like to think that my judgement of people is based more on what they've done and how they act, and what they are working towards, than what ticket they've bought. Tat's my personal goal, anyway.

Trump is not what's wrong with the USA. He's a symptom. The fact that 30% or more of the people approve of him as President, not his stated goals (which align with some Reupblican policy anyway), but his hypocrisy and dishonesty and his inability to accomplish those goals, shows that America has got big big problems. Slinging hatred at OCasio fits the pattern. Slinging love at her is just the mirror-image response, which is somewhat nicer but still not smart.

-DSK

A degree itself is meaningless.  It should help you actually do something afterwards, but not always.

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That AOC is clueless about the US economy means either:

  • the econ profs at BU are as stoopid as she is
  • she didn’t pay attention in class and got by on her looks and dancing abilities
  • she’s dumb as a box of rocks or
  • all of the above

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OC graduated cum laude with a double major in Economics and International Relations and she does drive the nutters nutz.

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7 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

OC graduated cum laude with a double major in Economics and International Relations and she does drive the nutters nutz.

So she and Trump have 2 things in common, they both went to college and they both drive people nutz.  as Eva Dent.

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20 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

OC graduated cum laude with a double major in Economics and International Relations and she does drive the nutters nutz.

 I heard econ was a minor, but I wasn't there.

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I was a physics TA for premed students many moons ago.  Just because you have a degree doesnt make you smart.  It scares me how so many of them probably became doctors later on and yet couldn't manage to pass a single exam without a cheat sheet of formulas.

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I thought of something else Ocasio-Cortez and Trump have in common - their supporters find them refreshing.

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3 hours ago, chinabald said:

Yes that’s the degree d’ranger brought up. His contention is a real degree from a real university means you can’t criticize. By comparing the two I showed that the left in fact doesn’t see it that way. 

No, dumbass. His contention was a real degree from a real university will give you an understanding of the subject matter greater than some moron on the street - especially at a younger age. So, in this case, AOC will have some understanding of economics beyond the moron J28. By all measures it appears AOC has a greater understanding of the economy than that dipshit. Of course that dipshit is angry because she's reached different conclusions, and so he insults her like the impotent old cuckservative he is.

AOC is great at getting rightwingers to step on their own dicks over and over and over.

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30 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

yfF1oTl.jpg

Is that like the guy who thinks Michelle Obama's program for school lunches was somehow less healthy than what it replaced? Or maybe the Christians who support President Trump in his pussy-grabbing and obvious worship of Mammon?

-DSK

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9 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

No, dumbass. His contention was a real degree from a real university will give you an understanding of the subject matter greater than some moron on the street - especially at a younger age. So, in this case, AOC will have some understanding of economics beyond the moron J28. By all measures it appears AOC has a greater understanding of the economy than that dipshit. Of course that dipshit is angry because she's reached different conclusions, and so he insults her like the impotent old cuckservative he is.

AOC is great at getting rightwingers to step on their own dicks over and over and over.

A real degree from a real university has the potential to give the recipient a greater understanding of the subject matter than someone on the street.  But only a moron, such as yourself, would claim that it is automatically true.

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To get a real degree from a real university you have to do, and pass, coursework that demonstrates an understanding of the subject matter.

Now I realize for rightwing morons the notion of standards hurt their little snowflake brains, but it's true. Universitys have standards! 

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

OC graduated cum laude with a double major in Economics and International Relations...

Which means:

1 hour ago, J28 said:

 

  • the econ profs at BU are as stoopid as she is
  • she didn’t pay attention in class and got by on her looks and dancing abilities
  • she’s dumb as a box of rocks or
  • all of the above

 

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6 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

To get a real degree from a real university you have to do, and pass, coursework that demonstrates an understanding of the subject matter.

Now I realize for rightwing morons the notion of standards hurt their little snowflake brains, but it's true. Universitys have standards! 

Do they have standards in grammar and spelling?

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Funny how the libertarian fuckwhits always fall back to grammar and spelling. It's like form matters more than content to them.

Just in context of you trying to explain the value of a University degree, getting the spelling and grammar wrong.  

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6 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Or it means that she was in the top 30% with respect to the entire class for Econ + IR at Boston University. But I get that she scares you. No need to reiterate that.

Or a real Mona.

 

Not so much scares as entertains.

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

Just in context of you trying to explain the value of a University degree, getting the spelling and grammar wrong.  

this is most amusing.

@BillDBastard you found sources for any of your bullshit claims yet smart guy?

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11 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Or it means that she was in the top 30% with respect to the entire class for Econ + IR at Boston University. 

Which means:

2 hours ago, J28 said:

 

  • the econ profs at BU are as stoopid as she is
  • she didn’t pay attention in class and got by on her looks and dancing abilities
  • she’s dumb as a box of rocks or
  • all of the above

And I love, love, love her!  I pray she keeps tweetin’, and protesting, and coming up with great ideas like the New Green Deal.  She and her elk are gonna force a monumental split in the Democrat party, and I am super pumped about that!

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5 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Thanks tor that Olympic Leap in Logic - this was in response to jzk and company posting about their expertise in economics while deriding hers. Welcome to the broad brush painting society.

Not a broad brush. Just a similar comparison that showed her degree is as useful a shield as Trump’s. 

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

No, dumbass. His contention was a real degree from a real university will give you an understanding of the subject matter greater than some moron on the street - especially at a younger age. So, in this case, AOC will have some understanding of economics beyond the moron J28. By all measures it appears AOC has a greater understanding of the economy than that dipshit. Of course that dipshit is angry because she's reached different conclusions, and so he insults her like the impotent old cuckservative he is.

AOC is great at getting rightwingers to step on their own dicks over and over and over.

It sounds like she understood the subject material well enough to get a job as a bartender. 

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1 minute ago, chinabald said:

It sounds like she understood the subject material well enough to get a job as a bartender. 

? does that make sense as a putdown on planet rightwing whackjob? is this the same planet where comparing a college degree for a 72 year old and a 29 year old makes sense?

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15 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Not a broad brush. Just a similar comparison that showed her degree is as useful a shield as Trump’s. 

You wrote "the left" - that my friend is a broad brush. When I write "nutters" I mean those so blinded they support Trump no matter what and belong to that group that believe anyone or anything is better than a Democrat. I know a number of these elks.  And there are little things like she received a fellowship, graduated with honors while Trump got in and stayed in with money and influence.  Sure, it's the same thing.

Now I just saw your last jab - my niece worked as a bartender and recently graduated as a pharmacist.  She is brighter, more interesting and more educated than Trump ever was or will be.  Plus, she is awesome at recommending good booze at a reasonable price. I would value anyone who pulled themselves up over some asshole who was born with the silver spoon up his ass.