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On 11/26/2018 at 10:00 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Kind of the same approach that is used in attempts to equate those who oppose enforcement over-reach to "wanting to poison our waters" - neither are helpful. 

they are just fine with accidental poisoning of our waters instead of the occasional overreach.

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I find it interesting that the economy that strikes the most fear into the hearts of the west is not a juggernaut capitalist one, it s a communist one (China) . Full on command economy, repressive dictatorship.   No freedom of the press.....need i go on? Oh a military that could crush the snot out of us or destroy the world trying. 

In any case they have lifted 100's of millions out of poverty and are building infrastructure we don't even contemplate.  

If communism is so bad why isn't it failing and we winning? 

If our system is so superior then we better start practicing it in a manner that does better than we are doing now.

 

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5 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

I find it interesting that the economy that strikes the most fear into the hearts of the west is not a juggernaut capitalist one, it s a communist one (China) . Full on command economy, repressive dictatorship.   No freedom of the press.....need i go on? Oh a military that could crush the snot out of us or destroy the world trying. 

In any case they have lifted 100's of millions out of poverty and are building infrastructure we don't even contemplate.  

If communism is so bad why isn't it failing and we winning? 

If our system is so superior then we better start practicing it in a manner that does better than we are doing now.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html

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Yah I am not defending Mao. America killed off most the aboriginal population to  steal the land and get ahead and I am not trying to make a false equivalency. What I am saying  is that when China decides to do something like build a  dam, a high speed train or city, there is no  pesky  press, other political point of view; it gets done and their economy is running us over. Simple fact,moral or unmoral, its happening and we had better figure how to compete. I do not think the Chinese have good intentions and they have no moral constraints. They are responsible killing off thousands of rhinoceros and elephants Tibet is shit hole because of them. They have death camps for Muslims living in their western region. They are bad dudes but the outcome is that their hegemony seems unstoppable unless we stop being dumbasses look after our folks  and fix our economies. . 

   

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There's a guy worth $35 billion - Jack Ma - who's a card carrying communist. The greatest mass movement in history of humans out of extreme poverty has been China in the past 3-4 decades. The world is complicated; SailBlueH20 reduces it to simple memes.

1 minute ago, HuronBouy said:

Yah I am not defending Mao. America killed off most the aboriginal population to  steal the land and get ahead and I am not trying to make a false equivalency. What I am saying  is that when China decides to do something like build a  dam, a high speed train or city, there is no  pesky  press, other political point of view; it gets done and their economy is running us over. Simple fact,moral or unmoral, its happening and we had better figure how to compete. I do not think the Chinese have good intentions and they have no moral constraints. They are responsible killing off thousands of rhinoceros and elephants Tibet is shit hole because of them. They have death camps for Muslims living in their western region. They are bad dudes but the outcome is that their hegemony seems unstoppable unless we stop being dumbasses look after our folks  and fix our economies. . 

   

 

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52 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Good heavens! The GLF was 60 years ago and has precisely nothing to do with how the country is being run now. If you want to be critical of China and Xi, and there is much to critical of, at least bone up on your facts. If you want to defeat an enemy you need to know him.

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Just now, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Good heavens! The GLF was 60 years ago and has precisely nothing to do with how the country is being run now. If you want to be critical of China and Xi, and there is much to critical of, at least bone up on your facts. If you want to defeat an enemy you need to know him.

https://newint.org/features/2018/09/14/china-detaining-million-uyghur-muslims

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2 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Good heavens! The GLF was 60 years ago and has precisely nothing to do with how the country is being run now. If you want to be critical of China and Xi, and there is much to critical of, at least bone up on your facts. If you want to defeat an enemy you need to know him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-10684399

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1 minute ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Good heavens! The GLF was 60 years ago and has precisely nothing to do with how the country is being run now. If you want to be critical of China and Xi, and there is much to critical of, at least bone up on your facts. If you want to defeat an enemy you need to know him.

Truth.  I'd argue that Mao's behavior is relevant to the current economy, as it established the basis of ultimate governmental authority, and that "the people" existed to serve the government, with complete repression of the individual.  It's this ideal that's been built upon, IMHO, as Xi Jinping has implemented his programs and consumed resources as the party saw fit to achieve its objectives.  Your point's valid, and Blue Water's point woulda been better supported w/more current data. 

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Truth.  I'd argue that Mao's behavior is relevant to the current economy, as it established the basis of ultimate governmental authority, and that "the people" existed to serve the government, with complete repression of the individual.  It's this ideal that's been built upon, IMHO, as Xi Jinping has implemented his programs and consumed resources as the party saw fit to achieve its objectives.  Your point's valid, and Blue Water's point woulda been better supported w/more current data. 

so you gloss over the path to the present....there is still a huge double standard and separate societies within the current China with virtually impossible personal choice and movement within the society... without the need and blessing of the rulers....and some still can't shake the localized  role of slavery in the US 150 years ago...but skip over China late 40's on

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11 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

so you gloss over the path to the present....there is still a huge double standard and separate societies within the current China with virtually impossible personal choice and movement within the society... without the need and blessing of the rulers....and some still can't shake the localized  role of slavery in the US 150 years ago...but skip over China late 40's on

Sorry - but, what "path to the present" do you think I'm "glossing over" - was I that clumsy in my expression?  

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3 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

so you gloss over the path to the present....there is still a huge double standard and separate societies within the current China with virtually impossible personal choice and movement within the society... without the need and blessing of the rulers....and some still can't shake the localized  role of slavery in the US 150 years ago...but skip over China late 40's on

I think you need to elaborate on the highlighted section ... a lot. I have Chinese in-laws and have spent some time there. Upward mobility is a lot more possible there than in the West. MY DIL's parents went from being peasants to millionaires in the construction business and they are far from unique. My BIL retired at 42 because he decided he had made enough money to support himself for the rest of his life. At no point in human history have so many people been raised out of poverty as in China in the last 30 years. The current system is called 'socialism with Chinese characteristics', the Chinese characteristics essentially being you can get rich. The average Chinese person is quite apolitical and likes the government because they have provided stability and a playing field where you can rich or at least wealthy enough to provide security for your family.

The role of Mao today is an interesting one. No one criticizes him and the same time no one quotes him. My in-laws are university profs and I have visited a few university campuses. Each one has a Mao statue in an older part of campus, generally quite big 25 to 35' high. No one has proposed removing them because it is not important enough to make an issue of. At the same time they are just ignored. People old enough to remember Communist times have much more affection for Chou En-lai than for Mao.

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Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?

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8 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?

Cause she’s a she

and she’s not white

and is a better populist than Trump

has them quaking in their boots.

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15 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think you need to elaborate on the highlighted section ... a lot. I have Chinese in-laws and have spent some time there. Upward mobility is a lot more possible there than in the West. MY DIL's parents went from being peasants to millionaires in the construction business and they are far from unique. My BIL retired at 42 because he decided he had made enough money to support himself for the rest of his life. At no point in human history have so many people been raised out of poverty as in China in the last 30 years. The current system is called 'socialism with Chinese characteristics', the Chinese characteristics essentially being you can get rich. The average Chinese person is quite apolitical and likes the government because they have provided stability and a playing field where you can rich or at least wealthy enough to provide security for your family.

The role of Mao today is an interesting one. No one criticizes him and the same time no one quotes him. My in-laws are university profs and I have visited a few university campuses. Each one has a Mao statue in an older part of campus, generally quite big 25 to 35' high. No one has proposed removing them because it is not important enough to make an issue of. At the same time they are just ignored. People old enough to remember Communist times have much more affection for Chou En-lai than for Mao.

If there are the  1 % er's in the west.....your in laws represent the .0001 % in China...the peasants in the country side are still trapped as peasants in the countryside....they absolutely will not be starting a business in the city and retiring at 40 after deciding they have too much money....or even starting businesses in the country side....their role is "worker"

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11 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?

I don't think that she is at all - she's young, really wants to make a difference, but, is too naive I think to actually be effective.  She's got some ideas that she probably thinks sound good - but, I sincerely doubt that she has any idea what those ideas mean or look like in implementation.  Much of the attention is an over-reaction, IMHO. 

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Cause she’s a she

and she’s not white

and is a better populist than Trump

has them quaking in their boots.

If Palin was a dullard....what does that make Ocasio ?

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:
17 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?

Cause she’s a she

and she’s not white

and is a better populist than Trump

has them quaking in their boots.

She also doesn't back down in the face of old white men -

She responds to Senator McConnell.

She responds to Sebastian Gorka.

In other words, she doesn't know her place.  Can't have that.

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3 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

If there is the  1 % er's in the west.....your in laws represent the .0001 % in China...the peasants in the country side are still trapped as peasants in the countryside....they absolutely will not be starting a business in the city and retiring at 40 after deciding they have too much money

Have you actually been to China Mr. SailBlueH2O?

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6 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

If Palin was a dullard....what does that make Ocasio ?

Do you know anything about her other than what's been spoon fed to you by the rightwing hate media you have pumped into your veins by the gallon daily?

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8 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Of course. 

Yes, of course. You got a good reason why Trump and the rightwingers love to pick out the women and minorities to mock? You going to truthfully argue that they are dumber than the men?

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10 minutes ago, Laker said:

Have you actually been to China Mr. SailBlueH2O?

No.....but I grew up in Taiwan 1951-61....my father was born in Shanghai 1921 and left in 1940....my son traveled all over western China after college...Mongolia..SE Asia...taught English in Japan for a year before those travels....so I do have a long interest and personal perspective on the communist Chinese model compared to Chinese that fled to Taiwan and followed the US model

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6 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

She also doesn't back down in the face of old white men -

She responds to Senator McConnell.

She responds to Sebastian Gorka.

In other words, she doesn't know her place.  Can't have that.

That she's wrong doesn't matter, as long as she's sticking it to the old white guys, eh? 

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Yes, of course. You got a good reason why Trump and the rightwingers love to pick out the women and minorities to mock? You going to truthfully argue that they are dumber than the men?


Edited to say instead:  I don't need to offer you reasons or justification for what "they" say and do - she has made comments that invite less than serious replies, and while the stupid memes are just stupid memes, I don't think that she's got anyone "quaking in their boots", nor do I think that the responses to her comments are racist, sexist or ageist, as much as so many of you try SO hard to suggest that they are. 

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That she's wrong doesn't matter, as long as she's sticking it to the old white guys, eh? 

Have you demonstrated that she’s wrong or is that an article of faith?

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That she's wrong doesn't matter, as long as she's sticking it to the old white guys, eh? 

 I get the sense AOC is useful to the rightwing because you can dismiss whatever she says by claiming shes young or inexperienced, instead of actually defending your ideas.

There were actual Jews who applied for asylum to the US and were turned away. A boatload of them in fact. It's one of those little bits of history people ignore - some of the Jews stayed in Germany because they had nowhere else to go.

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Just now, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

 I get the sense AOC is useful to the rightwing because you can dismiss whatever she says by claiming shes young or inexperienced, instead of actually defending your ideas.

There were actual Jews who applied for asylum to the US and were turned away. A boatload of them in fact. It's one of those little bits of history people ignore - some of the Jews stayed in Germany because they had nowhere else to go.

LOL...what a convoluted historical conclusion....Mismoyled Gibberish  

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4 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Have you demonstrated that she’s wrong or is that an article of faith?

It's my opinion - the people in the migrant caravan aren't at all like the Holocaust victims - and I think she's wrong to try to establish that equivalence. I've already shared what I think of her, and my comments today are aimed at the people trying to make political hay out of other's replies, not Ms Ocasio. 

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1 minute ago, SailBlueH2O said:

No.....but I grew up in Taiwan 1951-61....my father was born in Shanghai 1921 and left in 1940....my son traveled all over western China after college...Mongolia..SE Asia...taught English in Japan for a year before those travels....so I do have a long interest and personal perspective on the communist Chinese model compared to Chinese that fled and followed the US model

You sound like an old white guy trying to come to terms with a China that changed forever in the 90s.  Business in China at the moment is miles away from anything pre-90s.  China is a very diverse country.  From the first world of Shangai to the time untouched expanses of Inner Mongolia.  Outer Mongolia, as your son has probably told you, is aligned with Russia ever since the Russians put in the only railroad from the north.  My brother-in-law is consulting with the government of Western Mongolia.  The model they are choosing is much more aligned with present day China than Russia.  The government of Outer Mongolia is deathly afraid of the model where western capital arrives and takes over, and I think with good reason.  My own experience has to do with a large gold mining operation in Outer Mongolia.  The politics surrounding it are very interesting because of the rejection of western capitalism and the acceptance of what seems like despotic control, but actually encompasses control of the mine by Outer Mongolian interests.  I think the same can be said for the present day approach of China proper.

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12 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

If there are the  1 % er's in the west.....your in laws represent the .0001 % in China...the peasants in the country side are still trapped as peasants in the countryside....they absolutely will not be starting a business in the city and retiring at 40 after deciding they have too much money....or even starting businesses in the country side....their role is "worker"

You seem to take great pride in your ignorance. I think my in-laws might be in the top 10 to 15% but far from 1% let alone higher. My BIL drives a BMW 5 series a few years old. The roads are jammed with cars a damn sight fancier than that. There are an incredible number of black Audi A6s. We had one of my BIL friends drive us around Xi'an in one. He explained that moderately important government officials drive black A6 sedans so if you have one you are very unlikely to be pulled over by the police for a minor offence. Buick tries to compete with Audi and BMW (along built in China). My DIL's father actually was a peasant in a rural area in the 1980s and saw the chance to start building stuff when the economy opened up. Now he owns a decent-sized company that builds highways, bridges and the like. The peasants in the countryside and actually not peasants any more and have not been for some time. They own their own farms and are making out like bandits generally. Remarkably for a country of 1.4 billion people with relatively limited arable land (lot of deserts and mountains) China exports a lot of food products. Incomes in rural areas have risen so much in the last ten years or so that it is hard to get enough workers to move to the city to work in construction or manufacturing - they do better at home.

I saw in another post that you have not been to China. I strongly recommend a visit. It is a fascinating place and you may well find your eyes opened to a reality far different from your current perceptions. A bonus is that it is quite a cheap place to visit and to get to. My wife flew to Beijing this morning for a family emergency and the return airfare was about US$500 from Toronto (13 hour flight). Travel and hotels in country are also quite cheap.

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7 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It's my opinion - the people in the migrant caravan aren't at all like the Holocaust victims - and I think she's wrong to try to establish that equivalence. I've already shared what I think of her, and my comments today are aimed at the people trying to make political hay out of other's replies, not Ms Ocasio. 

Perhaps her point was more along the lines of "This is how things start...."

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The fact that so much attention is being paid to Ocasio is great for the Democratic party. It means the right wing energy is diverted from those in the party who actually have power and are a threat to the GOP. I don't think she is doing her thing just to act as a distraction but she is providing a useful service to her party.

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

Perhaps her point was more along the lines of "This is how things start...."

Could be - I hadn't considered it from that perspective.  I'll keep that in mind when thinking about how to consider any future comments I happen across. 

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1 minute ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The fact that so much attention is being paid to Ocasio is great for the Democratic party. It means the right wing energy is diverted from those in the party who actually have power and are a threat to the GOP. I don't think she is doing her thing just to act as a distraction but she is providing a useful service to her party.

I hope she is able to energize the people that do know how to make things happen on both sides to get off their butts, and focus more on better ideas than partisan squabbling. That would be a win indeed. 

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17 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It's my opinion - the people in the migrant caravan aren't at all like the Holocaust victims - and I think she's wrong to try to establish that equivalence. I've already shared what I think of her, and my comments today are aimed at the people trying to make political hay out of other's replies, not Ms Ocasio. 

Do you know about the MS St. Louis?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

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1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

Do you know about the MS St. Louis?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

Actually, yeah, and while I understand the comparison you're trying to make, I think it falls flat on several points: why the two groups are seeking asylum, how they went/are going about gaining it, and the reasons that each are being discouraged.  This isn't a discussion of the merits of the two groups, just an explanation of why I disagree with the comparison.   Did you ask Ms Ocasio is she was referring to that ship full of refugees when she made her comment? 

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14 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

, and the reasons that each are being discouraged. 

the reasons jews were refused was racism - point blank. don't forget the ivy league had "jewish quotas" back in that day. they had the same bullshitting about "cultural change" but that, was, and is, bullshit.

It's amusing how AOC is a politician that spends quite a bit of time talking to her voters, albeit in untraditional ways, and is regular person (cash poor) and you folk spend your time shitting on her. Out of one side its "why can't the be more like us" out of the other its "well, she's not really like us".

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37 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

LOL...what a convoluted historical conclusion....Mismoyled Gibberish  

It's not convoluted at all to point out Jewish refugees were refused entry, or denied permanent residency most places in the world. It's fact. The absence of a land for refugees pre, during and post WW2, i.e the surplus of jewish refugees without a place to go directly lead to the formation of the state of Israel. Here's a little primer: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/postwar-refugee-crisis-and-the-establishment-of-the-state-of-israel

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9 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the reasons jews were refused was racism - point blank. don't forget the ivy league had "jewish quotas" back in that day. they had the same bullshitting about "cultural change" but that, was, and is, bullshit.

It's amusing how AOC is a politician that spends quite a bit of time talking to her voters, albeit in untraditional ways, and is regular person (cash poor) and you folk spend your time shitting on her. Out of one side its "why can't the be more like us" out of the other its "well, she's not really like us".

Anti-Jewish racism/prejudice was deeply imbedded in American culture.  Rich white protestant people were very quick to spot "not our kind" and curl their lips and close their doors.  (Fertile soil for trust-fund hippies to grow in.)

In the 1960's, my parents owned a house that still had an exclusionary covenant against Jews (and of course brown people).  Our yacht club in Larchmont wouldn't accept Jewish members until a Jewish fellow won the America's Cup (Bus Mosbacher).  Then, he refused their "kind" offer.  

Ocasio rightly scares republicants.  Her responses to their attempted slams have been spot on. 

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Actually, yeah, and while I understand the comparison you're trying to make, I think it falls flat on several points: why the two groups are seeking asylum, how they went/are going about gaining it, and the reasons that each are being discouraged.  This isn't a discussion of the merits of the two groups, just an explanation of why I disagree with the comparison.   Did you ask Ms Ocasio is she was referring to that ship full of refugees when she made her comment? 

Thanks but I didn’t call her as I thought that was what she meant. It seemed clear enough.

Still, I thought you weren’t disagreeing with her comparison but rather disagreeing with her motives for making the comparison at all.

2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That she's wrong doesn't matter, as long as she's sticking it to the old white guys, eh? 

 

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On 11/19/2018 at 12:46 PM, SloopJonB said:

What is a "conservative nerd"?

You need a high level of intelligence to be a nerd.

Or at least the glasses.....

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the reasons jews were refused was racism - point blank. don't forget the ivy league had "jewish quotas" back in that day. they had the same bullshitting about "cultural change" but that, was, and is, bullshit.

It's amusing how AOC is a politician that spends quite a bit of time talking to her voters, albeit in untraditional ways, and is regular person (cash poor) and you folk spend your time shitting on her. Out of one side its "why can't the be more like us" out of the other its "well, she's not really like us".

And now Asians are dragging fair Hahvahd to court.....

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

In the 1960's, my parents owned a house that still had an exclusionary covenant against Jews (and of course brown people).  Our yacht club in Larchmont wouldn't accept Jewish members until a Jewish fellow won the America's Cup (Bus Mosbacher).  Then, he refused their "kind" offer.  

such covenants existed on paper into this decade, though they'd long been illegal:

http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/pacific-grove-looks-to-erase-hate-language-from-property-docs/article_bdd497c5-c597-5743-84df-f4073f17ab6d.html

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Anti-Jewish racism/prejudice was deeply imbedded in American culture.  Rich white protestant people were very quick to spot "not our kind" and curl their lips and close their doors.  (Fertile soil for trust-fund hippies to grow in.)

In the 1960's, my parents owned a house that still had an exclusionary covenant against Jews (and of course brown people).  Our yacht club in Larchmont wouldn't accept Jewish members until a Jewish fellow won the America's Cup (Bus Mosbacher).  Then, he refused their "kind" offer.  

Ocasio rightly scares republicants.  Her responses to their attempted slams have been spot on. 

My Grandfather was a member of the Larchmont Corinthian Yacht Club.... He tried to take a business partner to lunch there in the 50s. The business partner said "John, I think we ought to find another place...." My Grandfather said "Why? It's a great club!" The guy said "My name's Kuhns.... that mean anything to you?"

 My Grandfather said "no.... Why?"

 The guy said "John, I'm Jewish. They don't let people like me in there, even for lunch."

 My Grandfather resigned his membership the next day.

 

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3 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

My Grandfather was a member of the Larchmont Corinthian Yacht Club.... He tried to take a business partner to lunch there in the 50s. The business partner said "John, I think we ought to find another place...." My Grandfather said "Why? It's a great club!" The guy said "My name's Kuhns.... that mean anything to you?"

 My Grandfather said "no.... Why?"

 The guy said "John, I'm Jewish. They don't let people like me in there, even for lunch."

 My Grandfather resigned his membership the next day.

 

My recollection is my father telling me that it wasn't until the 1950's that LYC and most other "prestigious" yacht and golf clubs decided to let in Roman Catholics.  The hard choice was between prejudice and initiation fees.  The bank account won out.   

And now Ocasio has to get poor-baited as a substitute for race-baiting.  And she is spot on about the creeping testing by this administration of how far they can take anti-immigrant politics and persecution  Her intent is to stop it early and that is a service to this country.  Good on her.

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Yeah,

Do you know about Buchenwald, Auschwitz?

There is a lot more to the holocaust than post war refugees.

Founding Israel was racist.  No country in Europe wanted the jews.

 

Tell that to the Lafite-Rothschild family.

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9 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Yeah,

Do you know about Buchenwald, Auschwitz?

There is a lot more to the holocaust than post war refugees.

1939 - not exactly post war. But do ramble on, ignoramus.

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10 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

What am I weeping about?

The fact that 34% of Poles never heard of Auschwitz?

Denial does not mean it didn't happen.

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

What am I weeping about?

The fact that 34% of Poles never heard of Auschwitz?

Denial does not mean it didn't happen.

Denial means it will happen again.

 

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57 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Denial means it will happen again.

 

It starts by gassing toddlers. Which escalates to rubber bullets. Soon, the man in charge will authorize deadly force.

wait a minute....

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

It starts by gassing toddlers. Which escalates to rubber bullets. Soon, the man in charge will authorize deadly force.

wait a minute....

I doubt Saorsa saw that pile before he stepped in it. 

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

It starts by gassing toddlers. Which escalates to rubber bullets. Soon, the man in charge will authorize deadly force.

wait a minute....

No, it starts by bringing your toddlers along to the mob event and hiding behind them.

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

No, it starts by bringing your toddlers along to the mob event and hiding behind them.

And then, we fired tear gas and rubber bullets at them. Across a border.

History will not be kind to us. 

You seem okay with it. 

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39 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

No, it starts by bringing your toddlers along to the mob event and hiding behind them.

Just above you were stating that we don't remember and are doomed to repeat history.

And now you say, tough shit. Shoot the kids.

Nice

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13 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the reasons jews were refused was racism - point blank. don't forget the ivy league had "jewish quotas" back in that day. they had the same bullshitting about "cultural change" but that, was, and is, bullshit.

It's amusing how AOC is a politician that spends quite a bit of time talking to her voters, albeit in untraditional ways, and is regular person (cash poor) and you folk spend your time shitting on her. Out of one side its "why can't the be more like us" out of the other its "well, she's not really like us".

Who's crapping on her?  It ain't me - 

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12 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Thanks but I didn’t call her as I thought that was what she meant. It seemed clear enough.

Still, I thought you weren’t disagreeing with her comparison but rather disagreeing with her motives for making the comparison at all.

 

Nope - as I mentioned previously, O - I was commenting on the posters glee that Ms Ocasio "stuck it to the old white guys", not Ms Ocasio herself.  

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Nope - as I mentioned previously, O - I was commenting on the posters glee that Ms Ocasio "stuck it to the old white guys", not Ms Ocasio herself.  

You misunderestimated my comment.  I take no "glee" in her comments.  I was responding to Bristol Cruiser's post -

"Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?"

I believe a major reason she pisses them off is she does not behave like they would like her to behave.  You know, "know her place"?

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

No, it starts by bringing your toddlers along to the mob event and hiding behind them.

What would you think of parents who leave their little children behind to be raped, murdered, starve to death, or get eaten by dogs?

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

 

I believe a major reason she pisses them off is she does not behave like they would like her to behave.  You know, "know her place"?

I predict that will soon be a bipartisan sentiment, if it isn’t already. My hope is that she and the rest of the group of incoming younger representatives continue to represent the people who sent them there, instead of the old establishment that seeks to marginalize them. 

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8 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

What would you think of parents who leave their little children behind to be raped, murdered, starve to death, or get eaten by dogs?

I didn't think that was happening in Mexico.

I would think they should have stood in line at the border for proper processing according to the law. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You misunderestimated my comment.  I take no "glee" in her comments.  I was responding to Bristol Cruiser's post -

"Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?"

I believe a major reason she pisses them off is she does not behave like they would like her to behave.  You know, "know her place"?

Fair enough, Bus.  I hope she's able to cause some good change, either thru her own actions, or by spurring others to action.  

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31 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I didn't think that was happening in Mexico.

I would think they should have stood in line at the border for proper processing according to the law. 

 

You think these people are all Mexicans?

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8 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

You think these people are all Mexicans?

NO,  of course not.  I am  certain that they were safely in Mexico (well, as safe as you can be in Tijuana) when they started the charge.

 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Who's crapping on her?  It ain't me - 

But you’re just a RINO (rightie in name only)

i would say you’re a conservative. A vanishing breed. You might want to see if the new righties and their policies are compatible with your views. 

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19 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

NO,  of course not.  I am  certain that they were safely in Mexico (well, as safe as you can be in Tijuana) when they started the charge.

 

The “charge”

Fucking hilarious if it wasn’t so sad that this language is used to trod on traditional American values. Cause you’re afraid of poor brown people.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

You misunderestimated my comment.  I take no "glee" in her comments.  I was responding to Bristol Cruiser's post -

"Back to the OP, I find it fascinating how the righties are going so nuts over one rookie Rep. Is she that much a threat? Why?"

I believe a major reason she pisses them off is she does not behave like they would like her to behave.  You know, "know her place"?

No...no one gives a shit about her behavior. What pisses them of is her socialist agenda and that they see a real threat in the fact that so many young people agree with her.

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12 minutes ago, Dog said:

No...no one gives a shit about her behavior. What pisses them of is her socialist agenda and that they see a real threat in the fact that so many young people agree with her.

Can you identify some parts of her socialist agenda which piss you off?

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17 minutes ago, Dog said:

No...no one gives a shit about her behavior. What pisses them of is her socialist agenda and that they see a real threat in the fact that so many young people agree with her.

and the best way to convince those young people of the problems of her socialist agenda is to critique the cost of her jacket, and make fun of her because she pointed out rents quite expensive in DC.

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17 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Can you identify some parts of her socialist agenda which piss you off?

Medicare! Hiway repair funding! School funding! NPR! NASA! The EPA! National Parks! Welfare!

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

Y'all see for yourselves and decide which of those you'd support.  

the one time student debt cancellation would produce more economic benefits than the 2017 tax cut did. 

http://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/the-macroeconomic-effects-of-student-debt-cancellation

The authors find that cancellation would have a meaningful stimulus effect, characterized by greater economic activity as measured by GDP and employment, with only moderate effects on the federal budget deficit, interest rates, and inflation (while state budgets improve). These results suggest that policies like student debt cancellation can be a viable part of a needed reorientation of US higher education policy

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

Y'all see for yourselves and decide which of those you'd support.  

I don't see any that piss me off.  Which ones anger you, since Dog doesn't want to answer a question that would make him take a position.  

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7 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
12 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

Y'all see for yourselves and decide which of those you'd support.  

the one time student debt cancellation would produce more economic benefits than the 2017 tax cut did. 

http://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/the-macroeconomic-effects-of-student-debt-cancellation

 

Quote

The authors find that cancellation would have a meaningful stimulus effect, characterized by greater economic activity as measured by GDP and employment, with only moderate effects on the federal budget deficit, interest rates, and inflation (while state budgets improve). These results suggest that policies like student debt cancellation can be a viable part of a needed reorientation of US higher education policy

 

It's occasionally said that one big problem assailing US car companies is that young people don't just love cars the way their parents and grandparents did..... it's also true that they can't afford anything other than the cheapest ones.

Using gov't backed loans to suck up the income of the entire class of college attendees was a brilliant ploy by certain grifter bankers. But it's hobbled the rest of the US economy; these young professionals -should- be the revving engine of economic growth. You know, the way it was for prior generations.

Personally, I like Ocasio's pledge to back restoring Glass-Steagall. That's sure to make her popular with finance industry lobbyists. No chance in hell IMHO..... but -if- the incoming Blue Wave surfers can do it, or at least push real hard in that direction, that would be great for the country

-DSK

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8 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don't see any that piss me off.  Which ones anger you, since Dog doesn't want to answer a question that would make him take a position.  

The only one that angers me is the idea of abolishing immigration enforcement.  I think that several of her other ideas are incredibly naive, and wouldn't achieve what she might think they would.  Free school?   As a guy w/6 kids, I'd love to be free from the debt I've incurred to help my kids get a better start than I had. How do you pay for it?  

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15 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the one time student debt cancellation would produce more economic benefits than the 2017 tax cut did. 

http://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/the-macroeconomic-effects-of-student-debt-cancellation

 

 

As someone who's in a LOT of student loan debt - I'd love to be free from that noose.  How do you do that?  Just tell all the banks holding those notes to wipe 'em clean?  Shoot - you even get a 1099 now if you have to short-sell a house, so you're still stuck, and the IRS is worse than the banks. 

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The only one that angers me is the idea of abolishing immigration enforcement.  I think that several of her other ideas are incredibly naive, and wouldn't achieve what she might think they would.  Free school?   As a guy w/6 kids, I'd love to be free from the debt I've incurred to help my kids get a better start than I had. How do you pay for it?  

what immigration agency dealt with illegal immigration prior to 2003?

 I think ICE has become something they weren't at the onset and perhaps  HOW (not why) they go about their business needs to be looked at.

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4 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

As someone who's in a LOT of student loan debt - I'd love to be free from that noose.  How do you do that?  Just tell all the banks holding those notes to wipe 'em clean?  Shoot - you even get a 1099 now if you have to short-sell a house, so you're still stuck, and the IRS is worse than the banks. 

well, one way to get out of that noose is to hire a bunch of lobbyists to make Congress get the IRS off your back, about pretty much everything

That's what the 0.1%ers did. Of course, they can afford much more lobbying than you and I can.

Or, alternatively, we could try to figure out a way to make Congress act in the interest of the people..... maybe voting or some shit like that

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

well, one way to get out of that noose is to hire a bunch of lobbyists to make Congress get the IRS off your back, about pretty much everything

 That's what the 0.1%ers did. Of course, they can afford much more lobbying than you and I can.

Or, alternatively, we could try to figure out a way to make Congress act in the interest of the people..... maybe voting or some shit like that

-DSK

Bit of a side-step to the question, isn't it?   How do you actually accomplish what she says she wants to do?  Where does that money come from, and what DOESN'T get paid for to provide it? How do those #s work out?   This is the basis for my comment that most of what she proposes seems naive - a grand idea is great, but, if you can't engineer how to bridge the gap, it's not viable. 

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29 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

Y'all see for yourselves and decide which of those you'd support.  

Although a major shift from finding insurance companies, big pharma, the military industrial complex and giving housing breaks to moderately rich and the Uber wealthy, her ideas are consonant with America’s intended function. Providing a land for all dispossessed people who can work hard and follow the law. 

Trade schools, Medicare for All, focusing on bringing the troops home and confronting climate change are fine with me. It’s about time we got started on being a country for all men, women & kids. 

 

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4 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Or, alternatively, we could try to figure out a way to make Congress act in the interest of the people..... maybe voting or some shit like that

 

Bit of a side-step to the question, isn't it?   How do you actually accomplish what she says she wants to do?  Where does that money come from, and what DOESN'T get paid for to provide it? How do those #s work out?   This is the basis for my comment that most of what she proposes seems naive - a grand idea is great, but, if you can't engineer how to bridge the gap, it's not viable. 

Not intending to side-step, more addressing the issue from the bottom up.

As for how to pay for forgiving student loans, the fuckers collecting them just got a huge tax cut. They ain't hurting.

How to pay for reinstating Glass-Steagall? I dunno but it's not going to happen anyway. Does the SEC need more money? I wouldn't be surprised if the Trump Administration slashed their budget

A good place to start with all these issues is look at the Federal budget allocation. How should we tweak it? I say "tweak" because any change more than a couple percentage points is unrealistic, in any given budget cycle

-DSK

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15 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The only one that angers me is the idea of abolishing immigration enforcement.  I think that several of her other ideas are incredibly naive, and wouldn't achieve what she might think they would.  Free school?   As a guy w/6 kids, I'd love to be free from the debt I've incurred to help my kids get a better start than I had. How do you pay for it?  

It doesn't anger me and I fail to see how it is socialist, but it is just unrealistic, from my pov.  ICE fulfills a role that must be undertaken.  Should there be reform?  Maybe, but I question whether the reform needs to be within ICE or within the parts of our government supervising ICE.  Pay for it?  We already pay for Congressional oversight.  They should do their damn jobs.  

The things that I may find unrealistic about her platform may make perfect sense to her constituents.  That's the way it should be.  Is she (and her list) idealistic?  Perhaps.  She will soon learn that it takes money to put that idealism into policy.  That's the way it should be.  The way it shouldn't be is for her to be torn down or otherwise marginalized by moneyed interests because she wouldn't take the money to sell out her constituents.  I find that prospect far more offensive and scary than anything on her list of issues.  Yet we see that, right off the bat, from commentators talking about her clothes and mocking her inability to afford rent in DC (I've lived there and paid a fortune for a place no larger than a postage stamp), to online bullshitters trying to paint her policy ideas as socialism.  

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Can you identify some parts of her socialist agenda which piss you off?

The socialist part.