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4 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Trump is only stirring in his chair...wait until the summer and early fall of 2020

OK, meanwhile you should really consider stocking up on anti-depressants.  Or booze, or both.  Somewhere Nixon is thinking, now I no longer will be remembered as the most corrupt POTUS ever. 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

OK, meanwhile you should really consider stocking up on anti-depressants.  Or booze, or both.  Somewhere Nixon is thinking, now I no longer will be remembered as the most corrupt POTUS ever. 

2 plus years of caterwauling with scenario this,implication that....if the Dems had anything other than hyperventilation ..we would certainly know by now...  Donald Trump is a pure as the driven snow

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7 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

he's as pure as a kilo of columbian

Isn't that "Bolivian"?

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25 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

2 plus years of caterwauling with scenario this,implication that....if the Dems had anything other than hyperventilation ..we would certainly know by now...  Donald Trump is a pure as the driven snow

Awesome - another thought, you should get to know your neighbor Sooper Jack Malarkey and when the end comes you can join him on his recovery cruise. Should be epic. He is easy to spot as he wears Big Boy Independepants

edit: You are still on my list of people I would enjoy a beer with, be good for you to hang out with a libgressive for a bit. 

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6 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

In theory private school education is 55% of $16K.....

 I picked a 3rd tier private school as an example....

https://www.tiltonschool.org/page/admissions/tuition

Then I chose a second tier school...

How much does Hotchkiss School cost?
The total cost of tuition, room, board, and fees for the 2017-18 school year is $57,930 for boarding students and $49,250 for day students.

Then I chose a first tier school....

$53,900
 
The school is often confused with Phillips Exeter. There are 1,154 students on Andover's campus. Tuition for students living on campus is $53,900. Tuition for day students is $41,900.Oct 28, 2017

 

8 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

or, really, it's just a bullshit number that Bill's making up where he counts the "cost" of a private education as tuition, and the "cost" of a public education as total spending per pupil, so not at all the same thing. As well as excluding the expensive special needs programs that public schools operate, while most private schools do not. Bill's good at bullshitting, some people respect him for it.

Geeze the two of you are complete idiots. Really, really are complete and total idiots.

For starters the numbers I quoted was from several years back when we were making decisions regarding our daughter's education. However, we can use more recent data if you please.

New York Public schooling costs in 2016 were $22,366 per student. (Note; This figure does not include Charter Schools, which I trust would push the number up a bit more.)

Source/cite; https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/ny-school-avg-tops-22k-per-pupil/

The average tuition/cost New York State Private schools for 2018-19 (sorry, couldn't find direct data for straight up comparison) is $17,925 per student.

Source/cite; https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/new-york

Now before Missmoyeled Idiot goes off on a perceived difference between tuition and cost, same thing, this is what it costs to educate a person on average for one year. Missmoyeled Idiot seems to think there is some difference between the two, which, at the end of the day, there are not as it is the cost to educate a given child/student per year. For some odd reason M.I. seems to think private schools charge less than the cost to educate. We shall attribute his confusion to a public school education. In the event M.I. doesn't understand that there are private schools for special needs children as well...….

 

BTW, I would not consider Phillips Andover or Phillips Exeter or Hotchkiss as second or third tier schools. No doubt some private schools are pricey and yet even with those types of schools factored in the difference between a substandard public school education is grossly more expensive than a quality private school education. Lastly not quite sure why Phillips Andover is considered the best school in the country. There are a number of excellent private schools.... including the two I attended, one being a military academy.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

 

Geeze the two of you are complete idiots. Really, really are complete and total idiots.

For starters the numbers I quoted was from several years back when we were making decisions regarding our daughter's education. However, we can use more recent data if you please.

New York Public schooling costs in 2016 were $22,366 per student. (Note; This figure does not include Charter Schools, which I trust would push the number up a bit more.)

Source/cite; https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/ny-school-avg-tops-22k-per-pupil/

The average tuition/cost New York State Private schools for 2018-19 (sorry, couldn't find direct data for straight up comparison) is $17,925 per student.

Source/cite; https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/new-york

Now before Missmoyeled Idiot goes off on a perceived difference between tuition and cost, same thing, this is what it costs to educate a person on average for one year. Missmoyeled Idiot seems to think there is some difference between the two, which, at the end of the day, there are not as it is the cost to educate a given child/student per year. For some odd reason M.I. seems to think private schools charge less than the cost to educate. We shall attribute his confusion to a public school education. In the event M.I. doesn't understand that there are private schools for special needs children as well...….

 

BTW, I would not consider Phillips Andover or Phillips Exeter or Hotchkiss as second or third tier schools. No doubt some private schools are pricey and yet even with those types of schools factored in the difference between a substandard public school education is grossly more expensive than a quality private school education. Lastly not quite sure why Phillips Andover is considered the best school in the country. There are a number of excellent private schools.... including the two I attended, one being a military academy.

 

 

Therein lies an insight into the author's inflexible and condescending personality.  Got it.  

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42 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Now before Missmoyeled Idiot goes off on a perceived difference between tuition and cost, same thing, this is what it costs to educate a person on average for one year. Missmoyeled Idiot seems to think there is some difference between the two, which, at the end of the day, there are not as it is the cost to educate a given child/student per year. For some odd reason M.I. seems to think private schools charge less than the cost to educate. We shall attribute his confusion to a public school education. In the event M.I. doesn't understand that there are private schools for special needs children as well...….

Fuck yeah, BillD doubles down on not understanding the difference between tuition and the cost to educate a student.

Here's exeter's financial report - https://www.exeter.edu/sites/default/files/documents/Financial_Report_2014-15.pdf tuition before financial aid provided about half of their operating budget in that report. fell to less 1/3 after financial aide. tuition revenue alone wouldn't even fund instruction.

just like with healthcare - bills a bullshitter.

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1 minute ago, BillDBastard said:

Funny. Me being the most radical progressive in PA.

It's called disciplined...……….. btw

(bit of laughing as I typed that!)

You claimed that a public school education cost $16K, and that a private school education would be 55% of that.

 Even if it's $22K now for a public school education, show me a credible private school that the tuition, and books, and food are 55% of that.

 FFS Tilton is where people send their kids when they get thrown out of fucking Deer field Academy! It's the last refuge of those who don't want their children to be sent to reform school.

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48 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Funny. Me being the most radical progressive in PA.

It's called disciplined...……….. btw

(bit of laughing as I typed that!)

It's called "being an authoritarian..... who can't do math"

-DSK

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12 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Fuck yeah, BillD doubles down on not understanding the difference between tuition and the cost to educate a student.

Here's exeter's financial report - https://www.exeter.edu/sites/default/files/documents/Financial_Report_2014-15.pdf tuition before financial aid provided about half of their operating budget in that report. fell to less 1/3 after financial aide. tuition revenue alone wouldn't even fund instruction.

just like with healthcare - bills a bullshitter.

Oh boy, there is that public school education at work again.

So because some private schools have endowment funds and offer financial aid to those deserving you see that as a negative in their business model? And as such you discount the cost to a parent digging into their pocket?

Putting your interpretation aside for the moment, the real problem with public schools is they by definition are extremely wasteful of those resources provided by taxpayers. I suggest you look at how public schools spend their (our) money. IIRC in NYC the ratio of school staff : to students is on the order of 10:1 while class sizes run north of 50 pupils in per classroom. That does not happen in private schools, not by a long shot. Couple that with the ROI, or how well private schools educate their charges relative to public schools and it is a no brainer that we need to privatize education.

BTW,  private schools still provide books, food and in a fair amount of cases, student housing. So Mr. Late and Missmoyeled Idiot, I would suggest if you really want to understand my P.O.V. include only "day student" tuition for private schooling as a better head to head comparison.

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12 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

You claimed that a public school education cost $16K, and that a private school education would be 55% of that.

 Even if it's $22K now for a public school education, show me a credible private school that the tuition, and books, and food are 55% of that.

 FFS Tilton is where people send their kids when they get thrown out of fucking Deer field Academy! It's the last refuge of those who don't want their children to be sent to reform school.

So you discredit Tilton because they specialize in troubled youth? Do I have that correct? Tell me, what do public schools do to fix troubled youth aside from expelling them or accepting them as dropouts? 

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11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's called "being an authoritarian..... who can't do math"

-DSK

No sir or ma'am, what is authoritarian is a system that limits a parent's options for educating their children. The public school mindset is basically this, 'send your kids to private school if you like but you still need to pay for public schools regardless.' That is authoritarian and a large part of the problem with public education. It limits choices and it limits them for those in a position less able to afford the best education for their kids. Great system you people endorse.

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If K-12 stuck to the curriculum pre 1970...they could have two sessions a day,double the students out the door with the same teaching staff...

seriously a major rethink of how this country approaches educating K-12....general ED as basic reading ,writing, arithmetic able to function at lowest level of the economy.

a trade skill track building and repair stuff, this stuff would be taught 9-12 so the student would be fully trained to start a career building a fixes stuff

a AA 2 year college prep course

and finally the traditional 4 year college degree prep course

 

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4 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

...   ...    ...  The public school mindset is basically this, 'send your kids to private school if you like but you still need to pay for public schools regardless.' That is authoritarian...   ...   ...

No, that is called "paying for the benefit of living in a society with a population that can support a socio-economic system and a level of technology above that of a village of prehistoric goat herders."

You can always move, there are plenty of villages full of illiterate unwashed cavemen. OTOH if you want indoor plumbing, you need to call a plumber once in a while

-DSK

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57 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh boy, there is that public school education at work again.

So because some private schools have endowment funds and offer financial aid to those deserving you see that as a negative in their business model? And as such you discount the cost to a parent digging into their pocket?

Putting your interpretation aside for the moment, the real problem with public schools is they by definition are extremely wasteful of those resources provided by taxpayers. I suggest you look at how public schools spend their (our) money. IIRC in NYC the ratio of school staff : to students is on the order of 10:1 while class sizes run north of 50 pupils in per classroom. That does not happen in private schools, not by a long shot. Couple that with the ROI, or how well private schools educate their charges relative to public schools and it is a no brainer that we need to privatize education.

BTW,  private schools still provide books, food and in a fair amount of cases, student housing. So Mr. Late and Missmoyeled Idiot, I would suggest if you really want to understand my P.O.V. include only "day student" tuition for private schooling as a better head to head comparison.

I'm going to take issue with this - and suggest that you must be very much outta touch to suggest this.  The real problem is that the public schools have been tasked with much more than "curriculum delivery" and haven't been staffed and funded for the additional responsibilities that have been foisted upon them.  A contributing factor is that public schools, in their de-facto role as provider of many social services, have to expend time/resources taking care of basic needs for a portion of their student body that in the case of private school students, are being met at home.    

 

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23 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
1 hour ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh boy, there is that public school education at work again.

So because some private schools have endowment funds and offer financial aid to those deserving you see that as a negative in their business model? And as such you discount the cost to a parent digging into their pocket?

Putting your interpretation aside for the moment, the real problem with public schools is they by definition are extremely wasteful of those resources provided by taxpayers. I suggest you look at how public schools spend their (our) money. ....    ...

I'm going to take issue with this - and suggest that you must be very much outta touch to suggest this.  The real problem is that the public schools have been tasked with much more than "curriculum delivery" and haven't been staffed and funded for the additional responsibilities that have been foisted upon them.  A contributing factor is that public schools, in their de-facto role as provider of many social services, have to expend time/resources taking care of basic needs for a portion of their student body that in the case of private school students, are being met at home.    

 (emphasis mine) + + + and more +

BDB doesn't seem to know much about public schools, I'd suggest that he take his own advice and look at how public schools spend money. The local high school, at which I volunteer with the Jr ROTC program, has a whole building devoted to special needs kids. That's gotta be costly, and if there is any charter school or private school that bears the same burden, I've never heard of it. Public schools aren't just educating kids, they're housing, feeding, clothing, and socializing them too..... and most parent proclaim how they DON'T want their kids "indoctrinated" in school, far too many (perhaps most) don't seem to be willing to take any time or make any effort to do it themselves.

I don't agree with making our schools perform all these tasks; but that's where we are and if we don't start with the facts then we will never be able to forge any improvement

-DSK

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13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I don't agree with making our schools perform all these tasks; but that's where we are and if we don't start with the facts then we will never be able to forge any improvement

Bill's interested in an outcome (government = bad) irrespective of fact.

fact is - tuition doesn't pay for the cost of education, it's in almost all cases less and subsidized by an endowment donations, or in the case of parochial schools the parish/diocese. Comparing tuition for private schools to cost to educate a public school student is deeply dishonest, but that's bill. There are some fantastic public schools in the US... but for some reason middle aged dudes don't brag about going to them.

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Bill's interested in an outcome (government = bad) irrespective of fact.

fact is - tuition doesn't pay for the cost of education, it's in almost all cases less and subsidized by an endowment donations, or in the case of parochial schools the parish/diocese. Comparing tuition for private schools to cost to educate a public school is deeply dishonest, but that's bill.

Outcome irrespective of fact?  I think that he's interested in making more choice available to more people w/r/t how their children are educated.  I don't see that as a bad thing, and think that it would result in a shifting of priorities and focus.  In public schools?  The costs are simply spread across a larger body of contributors.  SO - to the individual making the outlay, yes, the private schools can indeed cost less for better outcomes than the public schools, *IF* we ignore the fact that being enrolled in a private school still doesn't eliminate the individual tax burden that's collected to support the public schools. 

There is indeed a difference in outcomes between most private/public schools. IMHO one of the biggest reasons for that difference is in private schools, there is a shared expectations between parents, teachers, administrators, with an expectation that the students will satisfy those expectations.    In many public school systems, the administrators are in an adversarial relationship with the teachers, many parents are disengaged,  and the kids understand that the teacher gets in trouble if they're failing.  So - the difference isn't $$, but the ability to focus ( see my comment above on additional, unsupported responsibilities) on education over peripheral accreditation metrics. 

 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

There is indeed a difference in outcomes between most private/public schools. IMHO one of the biggest reasons for that difference is in private schools, there is a shared expectations between parents, teachers, administrators, with an expectation that the students will satisfy those expectations. 

I think that's a leap. There are a great variety of private schools, with expenditures per student varying wildly, and outcomes that vary wildly. Again, tuition does not reflect the cost of educating a student in a private school; what we are interested in as a matter of public policy is what the total costs are for each method. You know, logic?

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2 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh boy, there is that public school education at work again.

So because some private schools have endowment funds and offer financial aid to those deserving you see that as a negative in their business model? And as such you discount the cost to a parent digging into their pocket?

Putting your interpretation aside for the moment, the real problem with public schools is they by definition are extremely wasteful of those resources provided by taxpayers. I suggest you look at how public schools spend their (our) money. IIRC in NYC the ratio of school staff : to students is on the order of 10:1 while class sizes run north of 50 pupils in per classroom. That does not happen in private schools, not by a long shot. Couple that with the ROI, or how well private schools educate their charges relative to public schools and it is a no brainer that we need to privatize education.

BTW,  private schools still provide books, food and in a fair amount of cases, student housing. So Mr. Late and Missmoyeled Idiot, I would suggest if you really want to understand my P.O.V. include only "day student" tuition for private schooling as a better head to head comparison.

Got a cite for that?

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2 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

... IIRC in NYC the ratio of school staff : to students is on the order of 10:1 while class sizes run north of 50 pupils in per classroom. ...

Wow. Home schooled were you? There's 1.1M public school students and the population of NYC is (only) 8.3M.

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27 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Wow. Home schooled were you? There's 1.1M public school students and the population of NYC is (only) 8.3M.

Maybe he went to school in NYC.

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36 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Wow. Home schooled were you? There's 1.1M public school students and the population of NYC is (only) 8.3M.

Laughing.... yeah, type that ass-backwards, expresso hadn't kicked in yet and the sun was yet to rise!

For every 10 students there is 1 staff member,  were as for every 1 teacher there are 50 pupils.

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Just now, BillDBastard said:

Laughing.... yeah, type that ass-backwards, expresso hadn't kicked in yet and the sun was yet to rise!

For every 10 students there is 1 staff member,  were as for every 1 teacher there are 50 pupils.

Cite?

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53 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Got a cite for that?

No. 

It was study conducted/commissioned by Rudy Giuliani when he was NYC Mayor. Can't be bothered to look it up frankly.

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1 minute ago, BillDBastard said:

No. 

It was study conducted/commissioned by Rudy Giuliani when he was NYC Mayor. Can't be bothered to look it up frankly.

And we know Rudy is as honest and non-partisan as the driven snow, or something like that. We'll just call it second-hand bullshit then, no different than pulling numbers out of thin air. 

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23 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

No. 

It was study conducted/commissioned by Rudy Giuliani when he was NYC Mayor. Can't be bothered to look it up frankly.

I have a hunch that 50:1 is bullshit.

But, it sounds good if you cite it as truth.

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4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I have a hunch that 50:1 is bullshit.

But, it sounds good if you cite it as truth.

Here's something with an actual cite. https://www.wnyc.org/story/parents-push-ny-enforce-law-smaller-class-sizes/

Quote

Last school year, according to the Department of Education, the average class size across all grades was 26.2 students per class.

Curiously, it doesn't support Bill's position.

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23 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Here's something with an actual cite. https://www.wnyc.org/story/parents-push-ny-enforce-law-smaller-class-sizes/

Curiously, it doesn't support Bill's position.

Curious.....

Kind of like the 55% claim.....

https://www.nmhschool.org/admission/tuition-financial-aid

Now Billy..... Pay attention to the Day Student tuition.... OK?

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21 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Irony - the people who voted for Trump because he would shake things up bitch when someone starts to shake things up.  Shaking things up is good as long as it is an old fat white con man.

One of the very best things about the Trump presidency is watching the huge number of PA forum members that have virtually dedicated their lives to him.  I have never seen anything like it.

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10 minutes ago, jzk said:

One of the very best things about the Trump presidency is watching the huge number of PA forum members that have virtually dedicated their lives to him.  I have never seen anything like it.

I haven’t either.  He’s inside their heads 24/7/365.  It’s a side benefit of MAGA!  

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On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:37 PM, Bus Driver said:

Other than the vague "I would like to see monumental and sweeping changes within our government", in what way(s) do you align as a "progressive"?

I ask because I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are disgusted with the status quo and want the same type of change.

You got that change when Trump was elected and have been whining ever since......

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:
You've chosen to ignore content by jzk. Options
You've chosen to ignore content by J28. Options
You've chosen to ignore content by warbird. Options

Seems to be keeping the nutters spun up. You go girl.

They are really howling, I love it.

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18 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

They are really howling, I love it.

I prefer the wheel of Brie.....

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Trump is a clear and present danger.  Of course you pay attention to him.  Ocasio is a talking point who is bringing up discussable points and all the talk is about her and not what is being put forth.

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

You got that change when Trump was elected and have been whining ever since......

Calling the Trumpster fire what it is does not constitute whining.

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6 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

 

mooil.jpg

There are so many things he has failed to do, or has fucked up.  You believe one meme makes everything good.

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

There are so many things he has failed to do, or has fucked up.  You believe one meme makes everything good.

He has not failed...he has been thwarted....partly for difference of political philosophy ...but most mostly for the fear of the success of his policy and exposure of the failed progressive/liberal agenda 

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Just now, SailBlueH2O said:

He has not failed...he has been thwarted....partly for difference of political philosophy ...but most mostly for the fear of the success of his policy and exposure of the failed progressive/liberal agenda 

With GOP control of both chambers of Congress for 2 years, he has been "thwarted".

Do you even read what you write?

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The Trumpers are again taking credit for something that happened under Obama. Trump hasn't done shit beyond making YUGE promises.  The oil biz boomed because of shale and fracking. 

It never ends.

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8 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

 

mooil.jpg

I must have missed it; what exactly did Trump do to make this happen?

US-%C3%96lf%C3%B6rderung.png

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"In total energy consumption, the U.S. was between 86% and 91% self-sufficient in 2016. In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products." (Wikipedia)

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11 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

He has not failed...he has been thwarted....partly for difference of political philosophy ...but most mostly for the fear of the success of his policy and exposure of the failed progressive/liberal agenda 

Thwarted by who again? His party owns the Legislature....  For a couple more days. He's so ineffective he couldn't get his own party to further his agenda.

 

In a couple more days,  the Thwarting begins in earnest.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Thwarted by who again? His party owns the Legislature....  For a couple more days. He's so ineffective he couldn't get his own party to further his agenda.

 

In a couple more days,  the Thwarting begins in earnest.

Spectacular! My Aluminum John boat needs new thwarts!

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30 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

 

There are so many things he has failed to do, or has fucked up.  You believe one meme  FACTmakes everything good.

FIFY

Shall move on to other FACTUAL successes or will the whining continue....

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7 minutes ago, warbird said:

Babble...

What fact? Looks like it's been rising since Obama took over. It's a meme, and it's a lie.

US-%C3%96lf%C3%B6rderung.png

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7 minutes ago, warbird said:

FIFY

Shall move on to other FACTUAL successes or will the whining continue....

Do you attribute that "fact" to President Trump?

First, remember the information about is available. 

That's why Al Gore invented the Internet.

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

What fact? Looks like it's been rising since Obama took over. It's a meme, and it's a lie.

US-%C3%96lf%C3%B6rderung.png

I posted the data in another thread, the US exports more raw and refined petroleum  products than it imports.  This is new this past year. 

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9 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Do you attribute that "fact" to President Trump?

 

Yes, exploration leases have expanded.  Pipelines have been authorized. We are now a net exporter of petroleum and petroleum products.

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Top sources and amounts of U.S. petroleum imports (percent share of total), respective exports, and net imports, 2017
million barrels per day
Import sources Gross imports Exports Net imports
Total, all countries 10.14  6.38  3.77
OPEC countries   3.37 (33%)  0.19  3.17
Persian Gulf countries   1.75 (17%)  0.01  1.73
Top five countries1
Canada   4.05 (40%)   0.87  3.18
Saudi Arabia   0.96   (9%) <0.01  0.95
Mexico   0.68   (7%)   1.08 -0.40
Venezuela   0.67   (7%)   0.06

 0.61

Iraq   0.60   (6%) <0.01

 0.60

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15 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

He has not failed...he has been thwarted....partly for difference of political philosophy ...but most mostly for the fear of the success of his policy and exposure of the failed progressive/liberal agenda 

I keep hearing this, but I'm doubtful because Republicans are in charge of all three branches.... and were in charge of two for the previous 6 years... and then the whole Bush/Cheney Administration before that

How exactly is President Trump being "thwarted"?

-DSK

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14 hours ago, warbird said:

Yes, exploration leases have expanded.  Pipelines have been authorized. We are now a net exporter of petroleum and petroleum products.

A "net" exporter but still dependent on imports. A good move overall but not an over-arching triumph when we're moving backwards in technology. And the trade deficit is bigger than ever, along with the budget deficit.....

-DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

I keep hearing this, but I'm doubtful because Republicans are in charge of all three branches.... and were in charge of two for the previous 6 years... and then the whole Bush/Cheney Administration before that

How exactly is President Trump being "thwarted"?

-DSK

Well the party he ran on (Republican) has never really been on his side...after all he has been running on draining the swamp and the repubs are just as guilty as the dems in wallowing in tax dollars only coming out in public during election cycles or posturing for or against legislation ....Trump is an outsider and that should be considered a good thing....the incessant negative headlines are nothing more than perception shaping for the dumb masses come next vote tally

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21 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Well the party he ran on (Republican) has never really been on his side...after all he has been running on draining the swamp and the repubs are just as guilty as the dems in wallowing in tax dollars only coming out in public during election cycles or posturing for or against legislation ....Trump is an outsider and that should be considered a good thing....the incessant negative headlines are nothing more than perception shaping for the dumb masses come next vote tally

"Never really been on his side"?  Care to share some concrete examples of the Republican party doing this?  Shirley, you can come up with a few.

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20 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

"Never really been on his side"?  Care to share some concrete examples of the Republican party doing this?  Shirley, you can come up with a few.

If the Republican party were fully behind Trump the 'Wall' would be fully funded.

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34 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

If the Republican party were fully behind Trump the 'Wall' would be fully funded.

60

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57 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

"Never really been on his side"?  Care to share some concrete examples of the Republican party doing this?  Shirley, you can come up with a few.

Shirley you have heard the expression “Never Trumpers”.  There was a funeral on TV last week that was attended by thousands of them.

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40 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

If the Republican party were fully behind Trump the 'Wall' would be fully funded.

Maybe the Republican Party is more on the side of the American taxpayer.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Maybe the Republican Party is more on the side of the American taxpayer.

It definitely is.  That's why it gave them a tax break.  On the other hand, no Democrats members of The Party of Coastal Elites and Women® voted for the tax breaks, because they are manifestly against the American tax payer.

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1 minute ago, J28 said:
1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Maybe the Republican Party is more on the side of the American taxpayer.

It definitely is.  That's why it gave them the richest 4% a tax break.  On the other hand, no Democrats members of The Party of Coastal Elites and Women® voted for the tax breaks, because they are manifestly against the American tax payer jacking up the deficit for the sake of redistributing wealth.

 

FIFY

-DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

FIFY

-DSK

Actually, no you didn’t.  Your “fix” is factually not true.  A less charitable way to say that is that you are lying and repeating the talking points of The Party of Coastal Elites and Women.

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3 minutes ago, J28 said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

FIFY

 

Actually, no you didn’t.  Your “fix” My post is factually not true.  A less charitable way to say that is that you are lying and repeating the talking points of The Party of Coastal Elites and Women.

Sure.

Because your invisible friend says so

-DSK

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Not my problem that you can’t, or more likely won’t, face the truth.  

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34 minutes ago, J28 said:

Actually, no you didn’t.  Your “fix” is factually not true.  A less charitable way to say that is that you are lying and repeating the talking points of The Party of Coastal Elites and Women.

which makes the Republicans the part of hicks, hayseeds, hasbeens and assorted other bitter old fucks.

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12 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

which makes the Republicans the part of hicks, hayseeds, hasbeens and assorted other bitter old fucks.

That those votes and opinions count as much as yours must really chap your ass. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

which makes the Republicans the part of hicks, hayseeds, hasbeens and assorted other bitter old fucks.

I see you used your millennial persona username @Mismoyled Jiblet. to post this rather than your bitter old fuck persona  username @Raz'r.  BTW, is @Raz'r a Republican?

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49 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

which makes the Republicans the part of hicks, hayseeds, hasbeens and assorted other bitter old fucks.

You forgot ignerint rednecks, and morans......

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55 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That those votes and opinions count as much as yours must really chap your ass. 

That the Republican party is now the champion of the stupid, the lazy and the ignorant should really chap your ass. Hey, keep up the messaging about how evil the urban elites are, it's going great for you guys. It's so bad even some conservatives have picked up on the failure:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/conservative-message-to-residents-metropolitan-areas-must-improve/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/republican-messaging-for-urban-residents-2020/

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

That the Republican party is now the champion of the stupid, the lazy and the ignorant should really chap your ass. Hey, keep up the messaging about how evil the urban elites are, it's going great for you guys. It's so bad even some conservatives have picked up on the failure:

 

So you are all pissed off because the democrats lost those registrations?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

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14 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So you are all pissed off because the democrats lost those registrations?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx

Reading and numbers aren't your strong suits, are they?

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48 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ask Dog

-DSK

There is no need to ask Dog.  It wasn’t a question.

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16 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Reading and numbers aren't your strong suits, are they?

Actually, they are,

You might want to look at those three columns and see where the biggest numbers are.

Then, you might want to think about it.  But, then, thinking doesn't seem to be your long suit.

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2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Actually, they are,

You might want to look at those three columns and see where the biggest numbers are.

Then, you might want to think about it.  But, then, thinking doesn't seem to be your long suit.

Try again Einstein.

 Dems are higher than Reps. Indies are higher than both. Indies leaning Dem are higher than Indies leaning Rep.

 I have no dog in this fight, so I really don't care, but if you were saying that Reps were trending higher than Dems, you'd be incorrect.

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:58 PM, Bus Driver said:

I have a hunch that 50:1 is bullshit.

But, it sounds good if you cite it as truth.

Nah. God's honest truth..... or was back when that study I mentioned was conducted.

The reason I can't be bothered to dig it up, as I have done in the past when asked, is it does not matter to many of "the usual suspects". They seem to just change the subject and head off in another direction when you provide the basis material.

Not lumping you in that group BTW. However I am not tugging you around. It was firmly on the radar when we were making such decision for our daughter's education. As such it registered and stuck. You are free to dig around for the article/study.

Now I do know more recently the UFT has negotiated hard to lower class sizes as a contractual condition. NYC public school system did change some, Giuliani made some headway, Bloomberg made some headway.... DeBlasio seems to be undermining that to some degree. Anyhow one of the "cures" or "fixes" has been putting teacher's aides in the classrooms, not educators mind you, more like ineffective babysitters. Seems a huge waste of money to me.

Do I understand correctly, you are a teacher? Mind saying where, whether that is public or private school and what age and courses you teach? If that doesn't work for you on here, would you be so kind to PM me? I would like to know your take. You seem mostly reasonable, although we don't see eye to eye on a number of fronts.

TTFN

BDB

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13 hours ago, Not guilty said:

1544818398348_jpg-772265.JPG

I, ummm, I think she is exactly right here (if she indeed said that) to be frank. 

Principle difference being, capitalism offers everyone the opportunity to pursue dreams while socialism  quells those opportunities.

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14 hours ago, Not guilty said:

1544818398348_jpg-772265.JPG

AMONG the numerous advantages promised by a well constructed Union, none deserves to be more accurately developed than its tendency to break and control the violence of faction. The friend of popular governments never finds himself so much alarmed for their character and fate, as when he contemplates their propensity to this dangerous vice. He will not fail, therefore, to set a due value on any plan which, without violating the principles to which he is attached, provides a proper cure for it. The instability, injustice, and confusion introduced into the public councils, have, in truth, been the mortal diseases under which popular governments have everywhere perished; as they continue to be the favorite and fruitful topics from which the adversaries to liberty derive their most specious declamations. The valuable improvements made by the American constitutions on the popular models, both ancient and modern, cannot certainly be too much admired; but it would be an unwarrantable partiality, to contend that they have as effectually obviated the danger on this side, as was wished and expected. Complaints are everywhere heard from our most considerate and virtuous citizens, equally the friends of public and private faith, and of public and personal liberty, that our governments are too unstable, that the public good is disregarded in the conflicts of rival parties, and that measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority. However anxiously we may wish that these complaints had no foundation, the evidence, of known facts will not permit us to deny that they are in some degree true. It will be found, indeed, on a candid review of our situation, that some of the distresses under which we labor have been erroneously charged on the operation of our governments; but it will be found, at the same time, that other causes will not alone account for many of our heaviest misfortunes; and, particularly, for that prevailing and increasing distrust of public engagements, and alarm for private rights, which are echoed from one end of the continent to the other. These must be chiefly, if not wholly, effects of the unsteadiness and injustice with which a factious spirit has tainted our public administrations.

By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.

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15 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Try again Einstein.

 Dems are higher than Reps. Indies are higher than both. Indies leaning Dem are higher than Indies leaning Rep.

 I have no dog in this fight, so I really don't care, but if you were saying that Reps were trending higher than Dems, you'd be incorrect.

The middle column is the most interesting.  If you read it from the bottom up you will see that it is the only one trending upwards over the years.  Both the D and R side are losing committed members.  As to leaning one way or another, HA, this is sailing anarchy and you should know that depends on where you are going and the direction of the wind.

Trump won in spite of both the democrat and republican establishments hating him.  Why?  He had a message on issues border security and the economy which were more important than "Donald Trump said that you could grab a woman's pussy" and "We're going to put a lot of coal miners out of business".

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On 12/14/2018 at 7:20 AM, Steam Flyer said:

A "net" exporter but still dependent on imports. A good move overall but not an over-arching triumph when we're moving backwards in technology. And the trade deficit is bigger than ever, along with the budget deficit.....

-DSK

Where you say "dependent on imports"  ,  I say " contract processing" , that is , some out side entity need pr processing skills or efficiency.  Both are good for USA.

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17 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Try again Einstein.

 Dems are higher than Reps. Indies are higher than both. Indies leaning Dem are higher than Indies leaning Rep.

 I have no dog in this fight, so I really don't care, but if you were saying that Reps were trending higher than Dems, you'd be incorrect.

You can't read either. I guess discerning a trend is not your forte!

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16 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

The reason I can't be bothered to dig it up, as I have done in the past when asked, is it does not matter to many of "the usual suspects". They seem to just change the subject and head off in another direction when you provide the basis material.

Own your fail Bill, it's nobodys fault but yours. Now - head off in another direction, tilt and whirl, spin spin spin the way only a middleaged man bragging about high school can.

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:
17 hours ago, Not guilty said:

1544818398348_jpg-772265.JPG

Don't you just hate it when someone points out the meme that sent a tingle up your leg is little more than bullshit?

It's all about the hate-hate-HATE.... remember this is the bunch that thinks Trump was a successful businessman, and Gen. Flynn (the guy who warmed up the crowd at Trump rallies by shouting how those Democrats put signs "written in Muslim" along the border) was tricked. This is the bunch that thinks Antifa is worse than Nazis and the KKK. This is the bunch who believe in "trickle down" economics.

What do you expect from them?

-DSK

 

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