captain_crunch

When good designers produce ugly boats.

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12 minutes ago, AlR said:

if you ever obtain any self awareness and see how you look you will die from embarrassment.

Oh, the irony........

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Yes, it does sound like a Jammer troll. It is possible to vote people off this island. I know who I trust.

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Interesting how whenever Jammer is in full flight, AIR and overlay always turn up as well.

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This thread went quiet so I thought I’d show off my new jacket. 

Whenever there is a flare up around here I’ll put it on and get to work on you clowns.

Jammer, you get my email?!

AD9E1660-750F-4CB6-A4E5-37D2029B75BC.jpeg

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Ace’s high!

 

You can’t say you “own” Bob anymore.

 

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On 12/16/2018 at 5:24 PM, unShirley said:

Indeed.  They are designed and built to cross the Santa Barbara Channel to fish and surf the Channel Islands and they do it brilliantly.

 

BTW:  Greenough didn't develop the fish.  Steve Lis, a San Diego kneeboarder, developed the fish.  Greenough was responsible for the "Spoon,"  (among other things) another highly influential development in the evolution of surfboard design.

For the topic of this thread, his Anderson boats don't really belong, I find them quite attractive.  However, his first attempt at boat design, a fully enclosed Boston Whaler, does fit.  There is a pic of it within this article about George:

George Greenough

Copy%2Bof%2BaGreenough%2Bwebstie%2B024.jpg

Looks like a commercial deep sea lifeboat. The type they launch from a ramp behind the bridge. 

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32 minutes ago, Jammer Six said:

I see no connection between the two topics. I don't own bob because I want to, I own him because that's the way he wants it.

If it were up to me, I'd sell him, use the money to buy a yellow dog and shoot the dog.

 

F462BFD0-240F-454A-AE54-45AAEE9FD440.jpeg

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51 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

 

F462BFD0-240F-454A-AE54-45AAEE9FD440.jpeg

Jammer's life sucks. I'm going to send him a box of fresh salmon to cheer him up.

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7 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

I see no connection between the two topics. I don't own bob because I want to, I own him because that's the way he wants it.

If it were up to me, I'd sell him, use the money to buy a yellow dog and shoot the dog.

Did you get my email?

WTF? :unsure:

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Jammer, you own a dog named Panda. That’s it. You can’t own a human since it was outlawed in 1863- even if they want it so. 

We will get the military involved if you don’t release Bob from your evil grasp.

0EAA3980-FF7D-47E6-8797-23F9D1214CA9.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

I've seen Lyle.   Short, fat guy. No wonder he makes up a delusional world.

Yeah - a guy without a sailboat hanging around a sailing site talking like he's superior - to anyone. :lol:

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I have a solution. Go fuck yourself.

Merry Christmas and get a psychiatrist

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18 minutes ago, Jammer Six said:

I've tried to release him any number of times, and he even says he's ignoring me. We're both working on it, from both directions.

If he wanted it done, we both would have gotten it done long ago, I assure you. Neither one of us wants to be in this position.

If any of you have a solution, we're listening.

OCD can be a real bitch..

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1 hour ago, Great Red Shark said:

What the fuck is wrong with you ?

He's a psycho fuckwit.

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J6 has been on my ignore list for yonks, and seeing the responses he provokes, I have never been inclined to even view his posts... He just doesn't contribute anything to any discussion.

But regardless, Merry Christmas wishes to all of you out there and many safe and enjoyable miles under sail for 2019!

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On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, AlR said:

Sweet baby jeebus.  Another eye bleach candidate.

sbj.JPG

The worst thing about a POS like this is when it becomes a bad influence on a student of yacht design..

31347889_1907163709376576_2857144659140935680_o.thumb.jpg.82b6c6e5f9b08de6cfcd2416974f2a7f.jpg

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Again, I like the design of WillP’s and the only reason you know about any of this is because BP puts his work out there for compliments, critique and the general education of the group.

And since you can’t afford a boat, BP and Will P won’t have to worry about you contacting them or anyone else for consultation.

You are the guy who couldn’t afford a free boat and Bob will post a few more boats just to piss in your coffee.

Drink up!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

Again, I like the design of WillP’s and the only reason you know about any of this is because BP puts his work out there for compliments, critique and the general education of the group.

And since you can’t afford a boat, BP and Will P won’t have to worry about you contacting them or anyone else for consultation.

You are the guy who couldn’t afford a free boat and Bob will post a few more boats just to piss in your coffee.

Drink up!

 

 

Did you forget your meds this morning?

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You must be referring to the troll that posted before me. 

That and I have the time to sit around and defend good people. I gave up on you last year with all your passive aggressive nonsense. 

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

You must be referring to the troll that posted before me. 

That and I have the time to sit around and defend good people. I gave up on you last year with all your passive aggressive nonsense. 

Read again your post, that was aggressive!

I don't need anybody to defend me, I say what I think, some people like it, others don't, either way it doesn't affect me as I don't depend on the marine industry to make a living. As for the "passive aggressive nonsense", that's the wikipedia definition : " Passive-aggressive behavior is characterized by indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation ", I am not sure what's your point.

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You’re right. I guess I meant weak troll.

You generally pick on people.

Me, I just respond to trolls with the same vitriol they bring. It’s realy simple. If trolls didn’t poop in thread, I don’t get involved. Plus, AlR posted it to get things rolling here. He’s been a troll since the early 70’s, he’s much more experienced than I.

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The opposite of Love is not Hate,  but indifference.

The passionate fixation some display here clearly borders on obsession.

May I suggest taking a break from your perpetual cycle of acrimonious discourse and go get some fresh air,  find something you LIKE and embrace that - and,  generally just fuck off from your bitter, small-minded sniping.

It's a New Year in a coupla hours - why not make a break from being a harpy. 

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Ah yes, always the victim. " The big guy is piking on me again Mom!"

Beautiful cold and very sunny day here at the shack. My buddy Bob is driving in from Montana for a few days. Bob bought the Baba 40 CINNAMON GIRL and enjoyed it for three years. But the drive from Montana was a bit much so he sold it. A few months ago the new owner put the boat up for sale again. Bob bought it back! He loves that boat.

So while the haters and whiners are doing their hating and whining Bob and I will be enjoying a nice day at the beach and going through the Baba 40 drawings looking for the tall rig drawing that seems to have gone walkabout. I have three rolls of Baba 40 drawings. It's a two man job. We'll find it.

31743072878_5eb60be2d0_b.jpgBaba 40 racer by robert perry, on Flickr

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Buying a boat (or car or house or.....) back from the person you sold it to is just about the highest praise possible.

I've even heard of people marrying their ex's :blink::D

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1 hour ago, Bob Perry said:

Ah yes, always the victim. " The big guy is piking on me again Mom!"

Beautiful cold and very sunny day here at the shack. My buddy Bob is driving in from Montana for a few days. Bob bought the Baba 40 CINNAMON GIRL and enjoyed it for three years. But the drive from Montana was a bit much so he sold it. A few months ago the new owner put the boat up for sale again. Bob bought it back! He loves that boat.

So while the haters and whiners are doing their hating and whining Bob and I will be enjoying a nice day at the beach and going through the Baba 40 drawings looking for the tall rig drawing that seems to have gone walkabout. I have three rolls of Baba 40 drawings. It's a two man job. We'll find it.

31743072878_5eb60be2d0_b.jpgBaba 40 racer by robert perry, on Flickr

That Bob is one smart boat owner!

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Beer:

Yes he is. Given his distance from the boat sole ownership was not worth it so Bob put together a partnership of three guys to share the cost of the boat.

But the boat in the photo is not CG. That boat is an East Coast boat that has done very well racing this year. Can't find a good photo of CG. Bob will have one. CG has the double spreader tall rig and Leisure Furl boom.

Here's a PH model of the Baba 40 that was just bought by a local couple. This boat was originally built for a Canadian buyer who added a lot of custom touches to the boat.

32672792258_14854b8deb_b.jpgBaba 40- PH greens by robert perry, on Flickr

This Baba 40 PH has been owed by the same PNW family for 36 years. I guess they like theirs too.

45822293664_4f00fcfa72_b.jpgBaba 40 PH sucia by robert perry, on Flickr

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

You’re right. I guess I meant weak troll.

You generally pick on people.

Me, I just respond to trolls with the same vitriol they bring. It’s realy simple. If trolls didn’t poop in thread, I don’t get involved. Plus, AlR posted it to get things rolling here. He’s been a troll since the early 70’s, he’s much more experienced than I.

Happy new year.

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:11 PM, AlR said:

The worst thing about a POS like this is when it becomes a bad influence on a student of yacht design..31347889_1907163709376576_2857144659140935680_o.thumb.jpg.82b6c6e5f9b08de6cfcd2416974f2a7f.jpg

Not cool Dude.

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Will's idea is his own. I quite like the idea although it's not what I would do. Will has his own ideas. My maxi trailerable has side decks. Although a few here have failed to notice that. Not to be surprised, they have failed to notice a lot of things.

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39 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

The forward-facing window facets prove any worse for leaks/damage than the conventional ones ?

Maybe less of a leak problem than the forward facing companionway with no hatch?

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I'll bet that the boat would seem to be spectacularly spacious when down below.  Being able to see forward while below also has some pretty good advantages.  No, it's not a Spirit of Tradition design, but then, I doubt that was the intent....

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1 hour ago, Bob Perry said:

Will's idea is his own. I quite like the idea although it's not what I would do. Will has his own ideas. My maxi trailerable has side decks. Although a few here have failed to notice that. Not to be surprised, they have failed to notice a lot of things.

Side decks.

Now your making facts seem relevant.

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You have lots of experience with the Shilshoe charter boats, show us your ideas then.

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14 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

The forward-facing window facets prove any worse for leaks/damage than the conventional ones ?

It isn't uncommon, probably just a matter of building them rught.

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13 hours ago, Veeger said:

I'll bet that the boat would seem to be spectacularly spacious when down below.  Being able to see forward while below also has some pretty good advantages.  No, it's not a Spirit of Tradition design, but then, I doubt that was the intent....

Yes, all boats are compromise, this one would appeal to people with deep pockets who value internal volume and ocean passages.

TBH, I think that he could have pushed the concept further by following the current trend of more volume in the bow area. I suspect that if you push too hard downwind the bow will start to dig, the extra volume would solve this and also provide extra volume inside. I know, I am not the (imaginary) client.... and obviously it was good enough to obtain his diploma with honours.

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9 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

Most (not all) of my ideas distill down to an Owens Cutter. But no one builds them anymore.

The charter fleet gave me two pet peeves: number one, head and shoulders above everything else, is dodgers retrofitted too close to winches. If you must have a dodger (and that's a separate question) place it so winches continue to function properly with full length handles.

Number two is sight lines from various places in the cockpit and below. Jeanneaus are the number one offender. Doesn't look to me like they even thought about it.

The Owens Cutter has an interesting history.  It was originally designed by George Owens.  Production in wood started in 1944.  Then the design was adapted for fiberglass by Henry Hinckley.  Production in fiberglass started in 1964 as the HInckley 41.  Then Allied Boat Company had Robert Harris modify the design by separating the rudder from the keel and reversing the transom.  Production of the Allied 39 began in 1970.

George Owens graduated from MIT and later served as a professor of Naval Architecture at MIT.  His students included Philip Rhodes, Edson Shock, and Winthrop Warner.  His career included a stint working for the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company.

Owens Cutter

owens_cutter_photo.jpg

Hinckley 41

hinckley_41_drawing.jpg

Allied 39

allied_39_drawing.jpg

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18 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

The forward-facing window facets prove any worse for leaks/damage than the conventional ones ?

Yea all those forward facing windows on the multihulls I have owned leak like a sieve.  Leaked so badly we frequently sunk. Likely because the multis are far slower, less stressed structurally, and less wet. Heck it never even rains on them.  :P

 

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The Cadranel family owned an Owens cutter i the 60's,  ZINGARA. Bob Cadranel is a friend of mine. They raced the boat in the Tri Island series but seldom did well. It was no match for the Buchan 40's and the K-40 at the time. Beautiful boat. Helps when the owner owns a boat yard.  "Sight lines from various places in the cockpit"? Are you kidding? Yes, it's probably a common problem when you are 5'4". The Owens cutter has a very low cabin trunk. It also has 5'10" headroom. That was not unusual for boats of that era. As for "various places" the cockpit is a relatively short well with two bench seats. You can choose to sit to port or starboard. That's it. The more j6 tries to talk about boats, the shorter he sounds.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Ed said:

How tall is a troll? 

A notch up from a gnome.

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On 12/20/2018 at 10:29 PM, MauiPunter said:

Jammer doesn't bother me, but AIR is such a dingus.

dingus?  you are such a gentleman!  :D

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8 hours ago, captain_crunch said:

The Owens Cutter has an interesting history.  It was originally designed by George Owens.  Production in wood started in 1944.  Then the design was adapted for fiberglass by Henry Hinckley.  Production in fiberglass started in 1964 as the HInckley 41.  Then Allied Boat Company had Robert Harris modify the design by separating the rudder from the keel and reversing the transom.  Production of the Allied 39 began in 1970.

George Owens graduated from MIT and later served as a professor of Naval Architecture at MIT.  His students included Philip Rhodes, Edson Shock, and Winthrop Warner.  His career included a stint working for the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company.

Owens Cutter

owens_cutter_photo.jpg

Hinckley 41

hinckley_41_drawing.jpg

Allied 39

allied_39_drawing.jpg

That's a pretty boat.  When I first started looking to buy a boat over twenty years ago, the wife and I went to look at an Oday Tempest, a 23' Rhodes design.  In some ways, the Tempest presaged the Alerion 28-style luxury daysailers:  a very traditional look above the waterline with a modern underbody.  This particular example of the Tempest was in really lousy shape, so I passed on it.  But my wife didn't like the boat at all.  "It looks like Popeye's boat!" she complained.  I tried to explain to her that that was the point, but I got nowhere.

TEMPEST  23 (O'DAY) photoTEMPEST  23 (O'DAY) drawing

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2 hours ago, Hukilau said:

my wife didn't like the boat at all.  "It looks like Popeye's boat!" she complained.  I tried to explain to her that that was the point, but I got nowhere.

There's a reason why for centuries it was considered bad luck to have a woman on board. :D

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I wish you would buy anOwens.

Then you’d be too busy working to afford to work on it and cursing yourself the whole time. 

23 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

Will designs boat with things that are important to him, that, because they're not important to others, others don't notice.

Just like bob.

 I guess that his successful thesis design is good enough for his school and not good enough for you. He developed it according to what the “client” meaning school described as the parameters for the design specs. You try better. But let’s not keep on about Owens cutters and dragons. I keep several wood and ‘glass boats and you couldn’t handle any of the maintenance of a real yacht.

Your time has passed. 

Will is the future whether you like it or not.

 

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4 hours ago, Hukilau said:

That's a pretty boat.  When I first started looking to buy a boat over twenty years ago, the wife and I went to look at an Oday Tempest, a 23' Rhodes design.  In some ways, the Tempest presaged the Alerion 28-style luxury daysailers:  a very traditional look above the waterline with a modern underbody.  This particular example of the Tempest was in really lousy shape, so I passed on it.  But my wife didn't like the boat at all.  "It looks like Popeye's boat!" she complained.  I tried to explain to her that that was the point, but I got nowhere.

TEMPEST  23 (O'DAY) photoTEMPEST  23 (O'DAY) drawing

My first boat was the prototype Tempest. I never heard anything about its history, but it was pre-production. In a good beat down Narragansett  Bay, it threw water back into the cockpit by the bucketful. My soon-to-be fiance got the idea that the first duty of crew is to keep as much water as possible from hitting the skipper.

Other than that, great boat.

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49 minutes ago, Jammer Six said:

I think the biggest difference between you and I is that I wouldn't have to handle any of the maintenance.

(I suggest you do your best not to think about that the next time you're pulling maintenance.)

Well since you said you can’t afford a real boat I don’t believe you.

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

Your time has passed. 

Jammers time never was.

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12 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

9A4FF157-89CB-4963-A42A-0803E6079549.jpeg

Didn't he recently retire at 48?

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35 minutes ago, Jammer Six said:

Hey, I know it was something-eight.

Troll-eight.

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But it's got to be a Dragon with 4 sea-going berths, galley and a head - quite doable if you are three feet tall.

Or a six year old in jammies.

 

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13 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

...how many people does it take to set the kite?

1 if you are organised.

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Slap:

I raced on dragons back  when Seattle had a pretty active fleet of them. I have never seen one with " 4 sea-going berths". At the most they had two settees and a v berth area. They most certainly did not have heads or "galleys". Meal prep was done in the cockpit. Very uncomfortable boats to crew. Fine if you are on the tiller. They had those winches with the handles below the deck. The bad old days. I have a spline weight that was once owned by Johan Anker. I met his son in Texas and he gave me the spline weight.

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3 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Slap:

I raced on dragons back  when Seattle had a pretty active fleet of them. I have never seen one with " 4 sea-going berths". At the most they had two settees and a v berth area. They most certainly did not have heads or "galleys". Meal prep was done in the cockpit. Very uncomfortable boats to crew. Fine if you are on the tiller. They had those winches with the handles below the deck. The bad old days. I have a spline weight that was once owned by Johan Anker. I met his son in Texas and he gave me the spline weight.

That's a nice souvenir. Make sure you label it somehow! Would hate that provenance to be lost. Do you have any other designers' ducks (is that the right word)? It would be like a collection of conductors' batons and authors' typewriters - my sort of collection.

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I have spline weights from Garden, Peterson and Anker. Most are in a bucket in the garage. I keep a dozen in my office for those now are moments when I want to spring a batten. I know to a few of us they are valuable icons of designers past but I suspect they are worth around 50 cents a pound for their lead. I have two I bought at the old Boeing Surplus store for 50 cents each. They say "747" on the side.

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Label them, in case you get beamed up suddenly! I’m visiting the widow of Jeremy, “our” designer, soon and will now try to talk a duck out of her.  

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Ed, you are playing dangerously there especially if you have 'autocorrect' turned on. Best re-read your last post and see if you spot what I thought I saw!

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

I have spline weights from Garden, Peterson and Anker. Most are in a bucket in the garage. I keep a dozen in my office for those now are moments when I want to spring a batten. I know to a few of us they are valuable icons of designers past but I suspect they are worth around 50 cents a pound for their lead. I have two I bought at the old Boeing Surplus store for 50 cents each. They say "747" on the side.

 

19 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Ed, you are playing dangerously there especially if you have 'autocorrect' turned on. Best re-read your last post and see if you spot what I thought I saw!

Gutter brain!

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2 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

Label them, in case you get beamed up suddenly! I’m visiting the widow of Jeremy, “our” designer, soon and will now try to talk a duck out of her.  

 

49 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Ed, you are playing dangerously there especially if you have 'autocorrect' turned on. Best re-read your last post and see if you spot what I thought I saw!

 

Kim,

    I think this is how you wanted to use the quotes function. I wasn't sure myself so I had to try it. 'Splain it to Bob, although I think he will get it now that things are in context. 

29 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

 

Gutter brain!

    Maybe you should have implored me to 'get your mind out of the gutter'.

Image result for get your mind out of the gutter

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24 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Huh?

Talk a duck out of her.

Replace d with f

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I have no idea why CA added that Bob comment, I only “quoted” your post Rasp.

I have seen that happen before, random stuff shows up. 

Must been the Russian cyber people who are trying to sow discourse throughout our society.

Guess they didn’t know we were pals Rasp. Cheers to you.

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Collusion it is Kim! I tell you...

    I've got a great autocorrect story to tell here sometime.

Better than this one but I think it fits here somehow.

Image result for autocorrect faux pas

 

Cheers to you Kim.

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I used to use autocorrect but turned it off: it has the potential to make me you look a right stupid aunt at times. 

Talking a duck out of someone? It’s a witchy thing - something the great Witch Finder Mathew Hopkins used to do - if you interrogate a real witch long enough a duck will emerge from her mouth. 

Er, or maybe not.

Just served a stewed goat shoulder, cooked with about a pint of vinegar. Gosh, but our guests knew they’d been in a meal after that. Stirring stuff. 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Ed said:

I used to use autocorrect but turned it off: it has the potential to make me you look a right stupid aunt at times. 

Talking a duck out of someone? It’s a witchy thing - something the great Witch Finder Mathew Hopkins used to do - if you interrogate a real witch long enough a duck will emerge from her mouth. 

Er, or maybe not.

Just served a stewed goat shoulder, cooked with about a pint of vinegar. Gosh, but our guests knew they’d been in a meal after that. Stirring stuff. 

 

Did you go for the shaved goat eyelash topping?

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3 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Collusion it is Kim! I tell you...

    I've got a great autocorrect story to tell here sometime.

Better than this one but I think it fits here somehow.

Image result for autocorrect faux pas

 

Cheers to you Kim.

You crack me up J..........err, I mean Rasp!

You and Ish, great entertainment!

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I wouldn't give him that much credit.

He's more a pathetic nothing.

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Going to have beef stroganoff for dinner tonight does anybody......

ahh geez, forget it, not gonna work this time.

Carry on.

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Here is CINNAMON GIRL. This is the Baba 40 that my friend Bob bought the sold then bought back. It's about as nice a Baba 40 as you would ever find. Bob now has two partners and would like to find a fourth. It's a bit much to own a boat like this when you live in Montana. CG has the same tall rig mod that AIRLOOM has.

46578941882_4388254fba_h.jpgBaba 40 CG motors by robert perry, on Flickr

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Why do I always have to be on the east coast??!!

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