hoppy

Which TP52 would you buy?

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Since there was a cookie 12 thread, why not a TP52 thread as well.

There are 10 TP52's entered into the S2H and there is now an Australian TP52 circuit planned. I would imagine that the TP52 circuit will sway some yachties who have the cash and are looking for a racer in the 50ft range, to prefer a TP52 over something that is similar. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/209250/New-TP52-Australian-circuit-planned

the TP52 that are here

Wot Eva - 2001/Nelson/Marek - Yassou/Glory
Koa - 2004/Bruce Farr - Sjambok/Lucky
Frantic/Sonic - 2004/James Donovan - Trader/Strewth
Ragamuffin - 2004/Bruce Farr - Pegasus/Morning Light
Quest/Balance - 2005/Bruce Farr - Bright Star
Highfield Caringbah - 2005/Bruce Farr - Rush/Cougar II/Fifty Two Hundred
Derucci - 2006/Bruce Farr - Warpath/Windquest/Sled/Ark323
M3 - 2006/Bruce Farr - Stay Calm/Calm
Celestial - 2007/Judel/Vrolijk - Glory/Wot Now/Shogun/Vamos/Fomo
Secret Mens Business - 2009/Judel/Vrolijk - Matador/Bribon/Beau Geste
Envy Scooters - 2011/Judel/Vrolijk - Audi Azzurra/Shogun 2/Ichi Ban
Gweilo - 2011/Udo Schütz - Container/Calm 2/Viento II
Hooligan - 2015/Botin Partners - Azzurra
Ichi Ban - 2017/Botin Partners - N/A

 

TP52's for sale

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/tp-52-farr-design-tp52-built-in-2004-award-winner/219620

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/tp-52-2010-team-hollywood-tp52-originally-team-origin/219361

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/reichel-pugh-tp52/206535

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/tp-52-transpac/215725

https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/tp-52/211573

 

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/botin-carkeek-tp52-2964633/

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/custom-tp52-3047862/

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2011/green-marine-judel-vrolijk-tp52-tp-52-3138904/

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2015/judel-and-vrolijk-premier-composites-tp52-tp-52-3190201/

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/judel-and-vrolijk-tp52-transpac52-3235861/

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/reichel-pugh-tp52-3211666/

 

I guess if you have a big budget and are too impatient for a new build, then Platoon is perhaps the way to go. 

 

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The one thing that is guaranteed is you will not be buying one. 

Are you going for the fantasy boat buy thread as well?:P

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Envy Scooters was Shogun 5.  And you missed Zen.

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I think it depends on what level you want to race at? Platoon would be for someone who wants to race against Hooligan and Ichi Ban at the highest level. The older TP52's present the best value for money IMO and whilst they won't be as fast if your only racing at club level with local offshore races etc  you may have bought the boat at $300k, have access to second hand but still good sails etc. The Platoon spend  is up there for people with bigger bank accounts

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6 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Spookie

Not a TP52 in its current configuration.  Turbo'd

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Totally depends on what you want to do. The Voodoo program reviewed all the options including the TP52s and with the Hobart as the objective, concluded that the competition in the  TP52s was too hot. By that I mean, if the conditions suited ~50 footers, chances are you would be beaten by bigger spending pro teams (you know the one!) So we looked for "white space" in the LOA field based on historic weather and previous winners...and came up with 60-66ft (R/P).

But as for can racing...the TP52s are great when sailed as a fleet. The problem is...and always will be that Pro programs will always win. $$'s will win. So as long as you're happy to play in the fleet and enjoy the participation in some of the best competition... Go for it. There is some value in the offer. The fact that there is a decent fleet is also great for building quality in the crew pool. As long as heads don't get too swollen, the idea of high performance boats that need better than competent crews means owners investing time in developing talent. I'm all for it. Best boat to buy? I don't care! What's best for the sport is to have 4-5 of them sailing together regularly on each of our local waterways. Getting them together annually... A reasonable handicap system would always help!

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I did not think you sailed them , I thought they were just garden ornaments.

Must just be my part of the world!

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3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Not a TP52 in its current configuration.  Turbo'd

Wow...total piece of shit then, no wonder they can't sell it :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, mad said:

The one thing that is guaranteed is you will not be buying one. 

Obviously

4 hours ago, mad said:

Are you going for the fantasy boat buy thread as well?:P

Nah, just a curiosity thread.

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2 hours ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Wow...total piece of shit then, no wonder they can't sell it :rolleyes:

Fabulous boat, meticulous owner, very well equipped just not a TP52 anymore.  And not eligible for sails coming out of the Med.  So that ups the operating dollars as well.

Probably testing the water

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The thing about 52s is that they are all so quick that you can break away with just a small window of advantage.  So an older boat can frequently find some joy.  Even if it’s not got the best straight line speed

 

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4 hours ago, Couta said:

Totally depends on what you want to do. The Voodoo program reviewed all the options including the TP52s and with the Hobart as the objective, concluded that the competition in the  TP52s was too hot. By that I mean, if the conditions suited ~50 footers, chances are you would be beaten by bigger spending pro teams (you know the one!) So we looked for "white space" in the LOA field based on historic weather and previous winners...and came up with 60-66ft (R/P).

But as for can racing...the TP52s are great when sailed as a fleet. The problem is...and always will be that Pro programs will always win. $$'s will win. So as long as you're happy to play in the fleet and enjoy the participation in some of the best competition... Go for it. There is some value in the offer. The fact that there is a decent fleet is also great for building quality in the crew pool. As long as heads don't get too swollen, the idea of high performance boats that need better than competent crews means owners investing time in developing talent. I'm all for it. Best boat to buy? I don't care! What's best for the sport is to have 4-5 of them sailing together regularly on each of our local waterways. Getting them together annually... A reasonable handicap system would always help!

I'm starting to think that a cheap TP52 like Rags or M3 which you can get for under 300k could make a good club racer for the right owner or syndicate as long as you are not hoping to compete with the big boys. Buy used sails that are no longer needed by the big budget teams and race within your crews limits.

For a Melbourne based  TP52 you can skip the S2H and instead enter the M2D, M2H or L2D to get some line honours trophies. Maybe the occasional S2H to help crew tick off their "bucket list". Enter bay races that PC & Ambition race in to give yourself boats to help you check your crewing progress.  If you club has a decent youth program, you can help your club and your crewing needs by getting some of the best dingy sailors on your crew roster.

A  budget TP52 is way, way, way beyond my finances, but if someone at my club was trying to put together a syndicate of 5 or 6 to buy M3 or rags, I'd have to think about it...

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25 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I'm starting to think that a cheap TP52 like Rags or M3 which you can get for under 300k could make a good club racer for the right owner or syndicate as long as you are not hoping to compete with the big boys. Buy used sails that are no longer needed by the big budget teams and race within your crews limits.

For a Melbourne based  TP52 you can skip the S2H and instead enter the M2D, M2H or L2D to get some line honours trophies. Maybe the occasional S2H to help crew tick off their "bucket list". Enter bay races that PC & Ambition race in to give yourself boats to help you check your crewing progress.  If you club has a decent youth program, you can help your club and your crewing needs by getting some of the best dingy sailors on your crew roster.

A  budget TP52 is way, way, way beyond my finances, but if someone at my club was trying to put together a syndicate of 5 or 6 to buy M3 or rags, I'd have to think about it...

 

Thinking being the main part :D:lol:

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44 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I'm starting to think that a cheap TP52 like Rags or M3 which you can get for under 300k could make a good club racer for the right owner or syndicate as long as you are not hoping to compete with the big boys. Buy used sails that are no longer needed by the big budget teams and race within your crews limits.

For a Melbourne based  TP52 you can skip the S2H and instead enter the M2D, M2H or L2D to get some line honours trophies. Maybe the occasional S2H to help crew tick off their "bucket list". Enter bay races that PC & Ambition race in to give yourself boats to help you check your crewing progress.  If you club has a decent youth program, you can help your club and your crewing needs by getting some of the best dingy sailors on your crew roster.

A  budget TP52 is way, way, way beyond my finances, but if someone at my club was trying to put together a syndicate of 5 or 6 to buy M3 or rags, I'd have to think about it...

 

18 minutes ago, Red Centre said:

 

Thinking being the main part :D:lol:

Hoppy,

The problem is the running cost of these boat even buying second hand gear and could you imagine trying to get 5 - 6 owners in a partnership in running the Boat working well and agreeing and working well together ?

 

Ive seen boats with 2 in the partnership go pear shaped with the owners not working together and when 1 goes through a break up, not good. 

 

So lets disengage the mouth and fingers from the key board and engage the brain. The only way I’ve seen any partnership with 5 - 6 owners work is were the Boat is managed by a independent person and each owner has a allotted time to use the Boat. Think Boat share were a Boat is managed full time and the owners gets a bill every 3 month and this is a pleasure / cruising boat. 

 

I cant see it working as a race Boat really can you ? 

 

Pulpit 

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52 minutes ago, Red Centre said:

 

Thinking being the main part :D:lol:

 Better to think about a TP52 than to watch and pay attention to the Teletubbies which my daughter is watching now.

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22 minutes ago, pulpit said:

 

Hoppy,

The problem is the running cost of these boat even buying second hand gear and could you imagine trying to get 5 - 6 owners in a partnership in running the Boat working well and agreeing and working well together ?

 

Ive seen boats with 2 in the partnership go pear shaped with the owners not working together and when 1 goes through a break up, not good. 

 

So lets disengage the mouth and fingers from the key board and engage the brain. The only way I’ve seen any partnership with 5 - 6 owners work is were the Boat is managed by a independent person and each owner has a allotted time to use the Boat. Think Boat share were a Boat is managed full time and the owners gets a bill every 3 month and this is a pleasure / cruising boat. 

 

I cant see it working as a race Boat really can you ? 

 

Pulpit 

I would have thought a race boat partnership would be a hell of a lot easier than a cruiser. With a racer, all owners will hopefully be out sailing together for each race with the occasional drop out. No need for a roster of when to go out, although perhaps one might be needed for helming or as captain. Of course everyone needs to share the same vision and goals for the boat and a realistic expectation about the maintenance costs.  Most importantly you need to enjoy sailing with your fellow owners.

I think the key thing about a "budget" TP52 syndicate would be to find the right group of people who have the finances to be part of a TP52 experience with a shared dream to race on a big boat but accept that they don't have the ability to make the crew on a more serious boat.

I'm sure there are many successful racer syndicates. 

I'd be torn about joining a TP52 syndicate. I'd love to race one, I know I'll never get to crew on a TP52 or similar (maybe I could get to do one twilight race on PC if I suck up to the right people), but not being able to go out for a day with just the family would be a huge downside.

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Agree with Pulpit. Take a look in the mirror & give yourself an uppercut Hoppy. 

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3 hours ago, pulpit said:

 

I cant see it working as a race Boat really can you ? 

 

Isn't that what Sportscar has done across multiple boats?

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3 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Isn't that what Sportscar has done across multiple boats?

exactly....

A racing syndicate has got to be way easier than a cruiser share, if the personalities and goals match up.

 

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38 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Agree with Pulpit. Take a look in the mirror & give yourself an uppercut Hoppy. 

They keep cracking, so I don't look anymore.

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12 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Isn't that what Sportscar has done across multiple boats?

Actually, when SC sold my Jeanneau, he said he had been selling a lot of boats to syndicates and my boat was a rare single/family buyer. I'm sure he can fill in about how many boats he's listed because the syndicate fell apart.

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9 hours ago, Couta said:

Totally depends on what you want to do. The Voodoo program reviewed all the options including the TP52s and with the Hobart as the objective, concluded that the competition in the  TP52s was too hot. By that I mean, if the conditions suited ~50 footers, chances are you would be beaten by bigger spending pro teams (you know the one!) So we looked for "white space" in the LOA field based on historic weather and previous winners...and came up with 60-66ft (R/P).

But as for can racing...the TP52s are great when sailed as a fleet. The problem is...and always will be that Pro programs will always win. $$'s will win. So as long as you're happy to play in the fleet and enjoy the participation in some of the best competition... Go for it. There is some value in the offer. The fact that there is a decent fleet is also great for building quality in the crew pool. As long as heads don't get too swollen, the idea of high performance boats that need better than competent crews means owners investing time in developing talent. I'm all for it. Best boat to buy? I don't care! What's best for the sport is to have 4-5 of them sailing together regularly on each of our local waterways. Getting them together annually... A reasonable handicap system would always help!

Your thinking does not make sense based on Matt Allens experience when he spent big bucks on a new 60 footer IRC boat to find he was not competitive against the TP52s. He bought the old Shogun and cleaned up most IRC races and then must have worked out a TP52 is the sweat spot for IRC racing boats ordering a new TP52 type boat with some more IRC tweaks. Just look at the recent Hobart rsesults!

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5 minutes ago, Chucky said:

Your thinking does not make sense based on Matt Allens experience when he spent big bucks on a new 60 footer IRC boat to find he was not competitive against the TP52s. He bought the old Shogun and cleaned up most IRC races and then must have worked out a TP52 is the sweat spot for IRC racing boats ordering a new TP52 type boat with some more IRC tweaks. Just look at the recent Hobart rsesults!

Chucky...you are clearly an expert who has studied this seriously and invested accordingly so I'll leave you to it.....but before you go bagging others there's a book called "moneyball" that you might find edifying....

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14 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Actually, when SC sold my Jeanneau, he said he had been selling a lot of boats to syndicates and my boat was a rare single/family buyer. I'm sure he can fill in about how many boats he's listed because the syndicate fell apart.

I was actually referring to the multiple boats called Sportscar, not the gentleman who posts by that name. Although he certainly knows all the details.

Problem I see is who gets to drive? It's bad enough that I have to do bow on my cruising boat... 

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21 minutes ago, Se7en said:

I was actually referring to the multiple boats called Sportscar, not the gentleman who posts by that name. Although he certainly knows all the details.

Problem I see is who gets to drive? It's bad enough that I have to do bow on my cruising boat... 

Sportscar was originally part of the sportscar syndicate, for the Adams 10 and Elliott winged wonder. I don't know if he was involved after the Elliott, but I'm pretty sure he was not part of the syndicate when they got the T980, but he is listing it.

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1 hour ago, Couta said:

Chucky...you are clearly an expert who has studied this seriously and invested accordingly so I'll leave you to it.....but before you go bagging others there's a book called "moneyball" that you might find edifying....

Don't get bitter just because he's right.

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The TPs have no doubt been the sweet spot in the last few races.  All predominately fas downhill affairs.

The big issue with a Hobart is what time you round Tasman & the Pot,  because once you're in the river,  after about 22.00 the breeze just becomes pot luck.  If the 52s etc are arriving at the right time in a fast race,  which they undoubtedly are,  something a bit bigger & faster to windward is likely to be better in a race with a bit more hard stuff from the south.

Matt's 60 & the similar sized RP's might just hit the spot.

But after 21 races with a couple of wins & a few other good results,  I wouldn't be using my money to bet on the overall winner until about the 29th.  And some years not even then!

I once spent a full day in a number of Hobart pubs convinced we had won this race only to finish up 3rd.

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Not just a couple of recent races TUBBY. Between 1995 & 2015 the average length of the Tattersall Cup winner was 49'9" so the TP is not too far from the mark.

I did the research when we bought Pretty Fly in 2016. She was renamed UBOX and came 3rd Overall IRC and 1st Overall ORCi

Around 50 foot is the way to go if you want a top 10 corrected time position, then you need just a little extra skill (or maybe luck) to hit the podium or even the top spot.

Just sayin

'SS

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

Not just a couple of recent races TUBBY. Between 1995 & 2015 the average length of the Tattersall Cup winner was 49'9" so the TP is not too far from the mark.

I did the research when we bought Pretty Fly in 2016. She was renamed UBOX and came 3rd Overall IRC and 1st Overall ORCi

Around 50 foot is the way to go if you want a top 10 corrected time position, then you need just a little extra skill (or maybe luck) to hit the podium or even the top spot.

Just sayin

'SS

Ubox was skippered by Charles and his DF crew during the hobart race ?

Look at the JPK 10.80 (and the new one 11.80), if you have the crew (and no too much wind) you can win over the 50footers (corrected time position). Trentesaux, Louison (father and son) trusted the IRC with those boats

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30 minutes ago, Baguette du Fromage said:

Ubox was skippered by Charles and his DF crew during the hobart race ?

The DF crew trained under the UBOX banner and did the Hobart with Charles that year, but I believe there were some of the owners crew onboard too.

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9 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

The DF crew trained under the UBOX banner and did the Hobart with Charles that year, but I believe there were some of the owners crew onboard too.

An old Chinese owner taking pictures ? nah just kiddin'

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Anyone who's dismissing Spookie as not worth the $1.2m price tag is laughably uninformed. For the price you avoid all of the cost and time of developing and optimizing a boat for offshore racing, as well as a very substantial sail inventory which was included in previous listings but apparently not the one that's up right now. Beyond Ichi Ban, there is not a more refined 52 set up for offshore racing out there and the current owner is calculatingly persistent in his detailed approach to ensuring everything done to the boat benefits her outright or rated speed. The original design brief for the boat when it was being built as Vela Veloce was to be the final word on offshore 52 racing. The hull and rig are constructed of an ultra-high modulus carbon fiber beyond which the 52 class allowed, making it one of the stiffest 52s ever constructed. It's also fully optimized for setting reaching sails, and they have a triple headsail rig that's absolutely devastating on any kind of non-vmg reaching leg. 

Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, outdoor, water and nature

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14 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

I'd love to see the maintenance budget & application for 6 guys pooling together and buying a 300k TP52...

Depends on what skill sets the 6 people and loyal crew bring to the table.  Can they very competently do DIY splicing, IT, electronics, mechanics, engine maintenance, hull-diving, etc.?   Do they have a SuperSeries connection for sails?  Do they do their own deliveries?  Do they have cheap moorage?  Or are they throwing their wallet at problems. 

I'd say $10,000 each/year as a baseline if they are very handy and have a good bit of free time and on up from there.  If they are buying two sails each year at retail then double that.  If they are all thumbs, triple that.

If they want to buff the boat out to Spookie or IchiBan quality, then that's a different world.  

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7 hours ago, Swanno said:

Don't get bitter just because he's right.

Swanno - you and Chucky clearly haven't followed the story.....as i said... read "Moneyball" and you might get a clue as to our approach. If we were starting with a blank sheet, unlimited time and unlimited cash we'd have adopted a different approach - but that was never an option. We've never claimed to have the "best" program, just one that puts us at risk of having a good result IF the conditions are right. The S2H is a high risk event in terms of claiming a win. If you're going to have a crack you need to really know the variables & the historic results. It's fair to say we did that...Like Bookies, we've studied the form....and the track. We've made our bet (with boat, gear & crew selection) and now we just have to wait and see what the weather serves up....and IMHO and for the record, the team that have played this best over many seasons is Chutzpah - that's why I admire them!

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1 hour ago, Couta said:

Swanno - you and Chucky clearly haven't followed the story.....as i said... read "Moneyball" and you might get a clue as to our approach. If we were starting with a blank sheet, unlimited time and unlimited cash we'd have adopted a different approach - but that was never an option. We've never claimed to have the "best" program, just one that puts us at risk of having a good result IF the conditions are right. The S2H is a high risk event in terms of claiming a win. If you're going to have a crack you need to really know the variables & the historic results. It's fair to say we did that...Like Bookies, we've studied the form....and the track. We've made our bet (with boat, gear & crew selection) and now we just have to wait and see what the weather serves up....and IMHO and for the record, the team that have played this best over many seasons is Chutzpah - that's why I admire them!

You're right. I haven't followed the story because what a bunch of Victorians have done in buying a 10 year old 60 footer, I don't find remotely interesting. Cool story but what else is happening?

What I have followed is the fact that Matt bought the Sydney to Hobart top prize last year with a 52 footer, and in recent times, the 52's have done quite well.

Good luck to you but next page..

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I dont think Voodoo has beaten Ichi Ban over line in a race yet, not sure but certainly hasn't beaten it on hcp.

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3 hours ago, Swanno said:

You're right. I haven't followed the story because what a bunch of Victorians have done in buying a 10 year old 60 footer, I don't find remotely interesting. Cool story but what else is happening?

What I have followed is the fact that Matt bought the Sydney to Hobart top prize last year with a 52 footer, and in recent times, the 52's have done quite well.

Good luck to you but next page..

Mate - I see you quote your interests are "fishing & camping"....'enuff said!

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4 hours ago, Swanno said:

What I have followed is the fact that Matt bought the Sydney to Hobart top prize last year with a 52 footer, and in recent times, the 52's have done quite well.

Good luck to you but next page..

At least you used the correct verb <_<

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26 minutes ago, Couta said:

Mate - I see you quote your interests are "fishing & camping"....'enuff said!

Yep, raced for 25 years. 2 young kids have re-directed my attention to family activities suitable for young kids. Not sure what your point is though?

 

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11 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Anyone who's dismissing Spookie as not worth the $1.2m price tag is laughably uninformed. For the price you avoid all of the cost and time of developing and optimizing a boat for offshore racing, as well as a very substantial sail inventory which was included in previous listings but apparently not the one that's up right now. Beyond Ichi Ban, there is not a more refined 52 set up for offshore racing out there and the current owner is calculatingly persistent in his detailed approach to ensuring everything done to the boat benefits her outright or rated speed. The original design brief for the boat when it was being built as Vela Veloce was to be the final word on offshore 52 racing. The hull and rig are constructed of an ultra-high modulus carbon fiber beyond which the 52 class allowed, making it one of the stiffest 52s ever constructed. It's also fully optimized for setting reaching sails, and they have a triple headsail rig that's absolutely devastating on any kind of non-vmg reaching leg. 

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Yeah makes sense.  On the other end of the spectrum Hooligan which rates higher than Ichi Ban and beat IB at Hammo isn't spec'd to do the Hobart. Whilst on this subject won;t be long before some of the PAC52's come onto the market. Sounds to me Spookie would do very well in the Hobart with a good crew and therefore for the money should be one someone's radar..!

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51 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^ Spookie bit taller rig?

Yes and some other nice little go fast touches

http://www.botinpartners.com/project.php?id=17

This custom IRC52 benefited from our experience in optimizing many TP52s for the IRC Rule. The hull was built from the mould of the succesful Quantum Racing 2011 (BP234), by Longitud Cero. It has been fitted with a taller mast than a TP52 and air foiled SCR composite rigging, from Hall Spars. Extensive CFD was carried out by Alberto Porto (www.portoricerca.com) and the Quantum Sails head designer Dave Armitage, to come up with the ideal mainsail and headsail aspect ratio and dimensions. Dr. Robert Ranzebach from Quantum Sails also played a pivotal role in the initial phases of the design, helping to optimize the boat for IRC in every area. The structural engineering was done by Pure NZ.

The build project management was carried out by Chris Cantrick and supervised b

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah makes sense.  On the other end of the spectrum Hooligan which rates higher than Ichi Ban and beat IB at Hammo isn't spec'd to do the Hobart. Whilst on this subject won;t be long before some of the PAC52's come onto the market. Sounds to me Spookie would do very well in the Hobart with a good crew and therefore for the money should be one someone's radar..!

Agree that the PAC52's would make a great Hobart racing boat designed for the ocean so minimal modifications, higher free board and dryer below!

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Certain Pac52s maybe. Invisible Hand or BadPak in particular. The lower freeboard ones (Rio, Interlodge ex:Gasprom, Fox) are a little light on the structural and support side. IIRC Rio and Fox came out of the same mold as the 2015 Sled and Beau Geste.  

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10 hours ago, Couta said:

Swanno - you and Chucky clearly haven't followed the story.....as i said... read "Moneyball" and you might get a clue as to our approach. If we were starting with a blank sheet, unlimited time and unlimited cash we'd have adopted a different approach - but that was never an option. We've never claimed to have the "best" program, just one that puts us at risk of having a good result IF the conditions are right. The S2H is a high risk event in terms of claiming a win. If you're going to have a crack you need to really know the variables & the historic results. It's fair to say we did that...Like Bookies, we've studied the form....and the track. We've made our bet (with boat, gear & crew selection) and now we just have to wait and see what the weather serves up....and IMHO and for the record, the team that have played this best over many seasons is Chutzpah - that's why I admire them!

Check out the Chutzpah crew list for experience. She's a 40ft boat with 245, yes, thats right, Two Hundred and Forty-Five, Hobarts counted among the crew.

Huge respect for those guys,a champion team.

 

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1 minute ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Check out the Chutzpah crew list for experience. She's a 40ft boat with 245, yes, thats right, Two Hundred and Forty-Five, Hobarts counted among the crew.

Huge respect for those guys,a champion team.

 

Bruce chasing an overall win for a lifetime. Last year was a great result for them 8th overall and 3rd in their division. I think the boat is designed to be a downwind flyer so they will be looking for those conditions again

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23 hours ago, Baguette du Fromage said:

Ubox was skippered by Charles and his DF crew during the hobart race ?

Look at the JPK 10.80 (and the new one 11.80), if you have the crew (and no too much wind) you can win over the 50footers (corrected time position). Trentesaux, Louison (father and son) trusted the IRC with those boats

Not quite correct. Charles skippered yes but it wasn't his DF crew, only 2 or 3 plus Marie Riou who was on board as part of her try out for the Dongers - and the rest, as they say, is history. The majority of the crew however was the UBOX's own crew. She was actually leading at one point but the wind at the entrance to the Derwent wasn't kind to us. 

Thing with the "not too much wind" comment is that there are not many RSHYRs with not too much wind.

If the conditions suit a particular boat, then any can win but the odds AND historical data clearly show that around 50 feet LOA gives the best chance of a top 10, a podium or even a win. Look it up, I am not talking from supposition, we put a lot of research into what was the right boat (size and type) to do well in the race and it proved worth it. First ever Chinese IRC podium in the race's history and naturally 1st ever Chinese Overall win in ORCi.

I suppose a case of fact over theory

I tell you it was quite an emotional moment as Mini-Box (as we call her) crossed the finish line off Constitution Dock.

Just thinking back to it brings a (silly) smile to my face.

SS

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15 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Check out the Chutzpah crew list for experience. She's a 40ft boat with 245, yes, thats right, Two Hundred and Forty-Five, Hobarts counted among the crew.

Huge respect for those guys,a champion team.

 

Pretty fun looking boat too. Bigger plums than me to take a forty footer that far south...annually.

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Having a great time with the Destroyer (ex-2005 Bribon) program. Gearing up for the 50th TransPac.

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5 hours ago, Swanno said:

Pretty fun looking boat too. Bigger plums than me to take a forty footer that far south...annually.

Were the earlier Chutzpahs smaller than 40'?

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14 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Were the earlier Chutzpahs smaller than 40'?

Yes....the 35 Hick from the 98 Hobart was an old Chutzpah..there were others under 40ft I believe too.

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The first one (I remember) was a Davidson 34 IOR, then maybe another davidson, then a hick 35 (the one that became AFR midnight rambler and won in 1998), a MBD 36, then the sydney 38  then the RP40 (i think he still has a sydney 38, but it ins't the original one he ocean raced with)

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10 minutes ago, minch said:

The first one (I remember) was a Davidson 34 IOR, then maybe another davidson, then a hick 35 (the one that became AFR midnight rambler and won in 1998), a MBD 36, then the sydney 38  then the RP40 (i think he still has a sydney 38, but it ins't the original one he ocean raced with)

There were two Davo 34 IOR Chutzpahs.

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54 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

There were two Davo 34 IOR Chutzpahs.

The keel failed on one on return from Stanley Tasmania

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5 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

The keel failed on one on return from Stanley Tasmania

That was the return from the '95 Burnie race- interesting report on it here- http://www.orcv.org.au/docman-link/safety/621-2003-safety-melbburniereport-pdf/file

The old Chutzpah was called Apache then- not a keel failure, but a rollover, mast broken and almost drowned sailor.  

 

"It is possible that during the return trip one keel bolt failed. The crew were concerned that the keel was not firmly attached to the hull. When Apache was washed onto the beach (and later salvaged) the keel was attached to the hull, but bent at close to 90 degrees from it’s normal position. This damage was presumably caused during the beaching.3"

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6 minutes ago, minch said:

That was the return from the '95 Burnie race- interesting report on it here- http://www.orcv.org.au/docman-link/safety/621-2003-safety-melbburniereport-pdf/file

The old Chutzpah was called Apache then- not a keel failure, but a rollover, mast broken and almost drowned sailor.  

 

"It is possible that during the return trip one keel bolt failed. The crew were concerned that the keel was not firmly attached to the hull. When Apache was washed onto the beach (and later salvaged) the keel was attached to the hull, but bent at close to 90 degrees from it’s normal position. This damage was presumably caused during the beaching.3"

Yes your right. I was returning on another boat and we we're hearing the radio reports, pretty scary at the time. I remember getting through the heads at Port Phillip and there were boats on the beaches that had broken moorings etc. I think we clocked 25.3 Knots in the bay with storm sails. The person who nearly drowned got trapped via their harness during the roll over from memory?

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1 hour ago, SPORTSCAR said:

There were two Davo 34 IOR Chutzpahs.

Audacity was about the same size I think

I did the delivery back from Devonport in 88 on Audacity, Bass Strait was a glass out overnight with reduced visibility... We had inflated goon bags up the mast to act as a radar deflector :lol:

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53 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Audacity was about the same size I think

I did the delivery back from Devonport in 88 on Audacity, Bass Strait was a glass out overnight with reduced visibility... We had inflated goon bags up the mast to act as a radar deflector :lol:

Luv it Rushman - Another use for the mighty innovative goon bag...might have to add it to my personal survival kit. Question is...do I start with a full one?

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On 11/27/2018 at 9:36 PM, jackolantern said:

Certain Pac52s maybe. Invisible Hand or BadPak in particular. The lower freeboard ones (Rio, Interlodge ex:Gasprom, Fox) are a little light on the structural and support side. IIRC Rio and Fox came out of the same mold as the 2015 Sled and Beau Geste.  

Interlodge is superseries spec. Rio (j/v) fully inshore spec as well. BG and fox both came out of 2015 sled mold, but with a bit more structure than full inshore. I would not hesitate to take either of those 2 offshore, though the hand and badpak are set up to be a bit more comfy.

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3 minutes ago, notallthere said:

Interlodge is superseries spec. Rio (j/v) fully inshore spec as well. BG and fox both came out of 2015 sled mold, but with a bit more structure than full inshore. I would not hesitate to take either of those 2 offshore, though the hand and badpak are set up to be a bit more comfy.

If it was a light race the whole way Hooligan would be a good option. Has the speed edge over IB or was sailed better at Hammo? Most owners would want the one boat though that can race the Hobart no matter. In reality the Farr 40 OD's have done the Hobart however they aren't built for it. They become disposables after 1-2 Hobarts

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4 hours ago, Couta said:

Luv it Rushman - Another use for the mighty innovative goon bag...might have to add it to my personal survival kit. Question is...do I start with a full one?

Part inflated Goonbags make the BEST offshore pillows. Infinitely adjustable pressure for optimum comfort, light weight, wont absorb water, whats not to like? And great fun to "make" with a group of like-minded friends. Also excellent buoyancy bags for certain classes of dinghies. Where do you reckon the Optis got the idea for theirs?

Truly a great Aus invention. You can keep your Hills Hoist - bloody useless on a boat.

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19 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Truly a great Aus invention. You can keep your Hills Hoist - bloody useless on a boat.

Another one very useful..making it harder to tear up money sailing, was the plastic banknote.

c988f3f237dfb960ae19904a312d87b9.jpeg

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Another one very useful..making it harder to tear up money sailing, was the plastic banknote.

c988f3f237dfb960ae19904a312d87b9.jpeg

Nice idea but as we are becoming a cashless society and it's all to easy to tear up digital dollars when sailing..

 

If it wasn't for the banking royal commission, the banks would still be throwing credit at us so we can all buy TP52's 

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7 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Nice idea but as we are becoming a cashless society and it's all to easy to tear up digital dollars when sailing..

Buying a TP52 on Visa will not end well.

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47 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Buying a TP52 on Visa will not end well.

If your card limit is set that high, you’re probably going to be fine.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

Nice idea but as we are becoming a cashless society and it's all to easy to tear up digital dollars when sailing..

You're dumber than I first thought if you think we're becoming a cashless society anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

You're dumber than I first thought if you think we're becoming a cashless society anytime soon.

I never said when, but we are most certainly heading in that direction. The progress towards a cashless society is unstoppable and will accelerate as new forms of digital transactions are introduced that "replace". Until very recently if you wanted to buy a TP52 and take ownership immediately, you'd have to show up at the brokers office with a suitcase of cash. Now you can do a bank transfer on your phone and the broker can  within seconds see the money in his account.

The final nail in the cash coffin will be a digital transaction that can be made between parties without the need for phone networks, internet or power. At that point, the reserve bank will start removing notes from circulation. 

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1 hour ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

You're dumber than I first thought if you think we're becoming a cashless society anytime soon.

Becoming a cashless society has been in the news all week. 

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2 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I never said when, but we are most certainly heading in that direction. The progress towards a cashless society is unstoppable and will accelerate as new forms of digital transactions are introduced that "replace". Until very recently if you wanted to buy a TP52 and take ownership immediately, you'd have to show up at the brokers office with a suitcase of cash. Now you can do a bank transfer on your phone and the broker can  within seconds see the money in his account.

The final nail in the cash coffin will be a digital transaction that can be made between parties without the need for phone networks, internet or power. At that point, the reserve bank will start removing notes from circulation. 

Cleared funds required for handover. 

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Cleared funds required for handover. 

That's what now happens with the New Payments Platform (NPP) that the reserve bank introduced at the start of this year and the major banks have implemented. Admittedly, for security reasons, if you want to buy a TP52 that quickly you will need to talk to your bank in advance. Still easier than going into a branch to fill your suitcase with cash.

The government is motivated to move us to a cashless society as it makes it harder for there to be a cash economy avoiding taxes.

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3 minutes ago, hoppy said:

That's what now happens with the New Payments Platform (NPP) that the reserve bank introduced at the start of this year and the major banks have implemented. Admittedly, for security reasons, if you want to buy a TP52 that quickly you will need to talk to your bank in advance. Still easier than going into a branch to fill your suitcase with cash.

The government is motivated to move us to a cashless society as it makes it harder for there to be a cash economy avoiding taxes.

Expectation & reality differ. CBA for eg. have PayId but first time transfers are held in security for 24hrs. Meaning it takes as long as a normal bank transfer on the first P2P transfer, so unless you pay deposit, then in full, for your TP52 you will need to wait the normal time for cleared funds, of course the banks will tell you as good as cleared, disclaimer, all care, no responsibility...

Yes cash takes 3-5 days & the broker doesn’t really want that, extra hassle, significant cash transaction report to file & possibility of counterfeit notes. 

Despite the banks PR & yes get an RTGS transfer, be mad to release goods without cleared funds. 

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even with a deposit already paid, the banks will probably have rules about the maximum amount you can transfer, but they also probably have processes that allow you to exceed any limit by prior arrangement.

The process is evolving and the RBA and Gov have motivation to push everyone towards a cashless society.

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7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

 

Despite the banks PR & yes get an RTGS transfer, be mad to release goods without cleared funds. 

I'm pretty sure NPP deposits cleared funds into your account instantly.

I'm unfortunately not as familiar with the Aussie banking processes as I were with those in Sweden and the EU. 

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At first I thought why are we talking about finance tech on a TP52 thread, but then I remembered it was a TP52 thread :lol:

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

  ....The progress towards a cashless society is unstoppable and will accelerate as new forms of digital transactions are introduced that "replace"....The final nail in the cash coffin will be a digital transaction that can be made between parties without the need for phone networks, internet or power. At that point, the reserve bank will start removing notes from circulation. 

You really need to get out more. There are large numbers of people in society who have neither have a fixed address, a bank account or any form of reliable income, if any. Just because the Salvation Army comes to your door with a wireless ATM, doesn't mean their clients are similiarly endowered.

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42 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You really need to get out more. There are large numbers of people in society who have neither have a fixed address, a bank account or any form of reliable income, if any. Just because the Salvation Army comes to your door with a wireless ATM, doesn't mean their clients are similiarly endowered.

Japan is one of the most heavily invested public infrastructure centers of the world - high tech adoption rate.

Also where you need to carry cash for many nice establishments that aren't chain stores. Rational central banks are moving towards currency that last longer and are harder to counterfeit - there's no evidence that any are planning to remove hard currency at all. 

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Hoppy, 

 

I can’t see how going cashless would ever work with out replacing it with another form of non electronic every day  currency. As much as the governments would like to replace cash and go all electronic. 

 

As jack was saying think of all those who are less fortunate than both you and I who live on support that most people give them just because we hate carrying coins in our pockets and we are happy to get rid of them. If we didn’t have cash, would you go up to a total stranger be it a homeless person or busker and just tap your card and give them money ?

 

I don’t think so as we would all end up getting ripped off or scammed. Have you ever stopped to think how easy it is now to use a stolen credit card Or a borrowed card ?

 

I can tap most cards up too $99 with out needing a PIN or if I insert the card into the machine and use credit some places don’t need a PIN until the price is over $30. Just try it next time you are at bunnings and use your wife’s credit card see how easy it is.

 

Anyway think of how much trouble we could all get ourselves into if we when cashless and your wife looked on your bank statements. No more one for the road drinks when we do a coin drop on the bar. No more secret play fund to treat yourself and the biggest problem if we go cashless and your wife can now see what you are spending, No more titie bars and clubs  on a boys night out helping those poor girls out. You go into the just one of those clubs and you would be stuffed and as far as giving the girls $1, your know the rest and with no cash you can’t even afford to do a make over on your dog house with out her knowing.

 

pulpit

 

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Every electronic transaction can be tracked.  Every cash transaction can't be tracked.  There will always be a demand for un-tracked transactions on purely privacy grounds.

Oh, by the way..Bitcoin et al are both scams and environmental disasters.  IM(not very)HO

And TP52s are the cat's pajamas.

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Whether you like it or not, all modern societies are heading towards a cashless society, just at different rates.

5 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Every electronic transaction can be tracked.  Every cash transaction can't be tracked.  There will always be a demand for un-tracked transactions on purely privacy grounds.

There may be the demand, but the Governments want to be able to track all transactions. Cashless societies will happen, party because the law abiding population will migrate towards cashless and the rest will be forced when governments withdraw notes from circulation.   

 

 

I am not an advocate for a cashless society. I worked for nearly 20 years for European banks on their card systems and I'd seen enough of what goes on in  the background with cards to know I needed a backup. So unlike many of my colleagues and friends,  always carried a decent amount of cash in my wallet and paid cash a lot. I'd also have cards from different banks and countries, especially when travelling and needed to use cards.

I love cash, but I can see we are heading towards a cashless society. 

To deny we are heading towards a cashless society, is like denying climate change. 

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