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onepointfivethumbs

Is the J/24 worth it?

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I have another two(ish) years of school and my brother has three, neither of us knows where we will end up for work. We talked about getting one of the many used J/24's that pop up for cheap since it's a pretty universal class with fleets on all four coasts, big enough to sleep on, and stable enough to bring girlfriends and a cooler of beer.

However, between replacing core, the verm job, and the laundry list of upgrades mandatory to make the '24 go fast, plus sails, running rigging, and all the ancillary costs of owning a boat, I'm having my doubts on whether the J/24 is the best choice. It seems like the cheapest option but also the biggest headache to get a competitive boat on the line.

Thoughts?

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Is it worth it? If you have an active fleet nearby, most definitely. 

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41 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

get a Moore 24.

Please do show me where you can get a moore 24 for dirt cheap J24 prices.

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11 hours ago, Varan said:

Is it worth it? If you have an active fleet nearby, most definitely. 

+100.... there is nothing like OD racing to forge your skills

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J/24 BOAT GRANT PROGRAM! Go to the USA J/24 class website and fill out an application. They give you a race ready J/24 + reimburse you for regatta costs for one year. Some of the best sailors in the class are involved in the program and will be available to you for advice and go fast tips.

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On 11/27/2018 at 3:58 PM, onepointfivethumbs said:

I have another two(ish) years of school and my brother has three, neither of us knows where we will end up for work. We talked about getting one of the many used J/24's that pop up for cheap since it's a pretty universal class with fleets on all four coasts, big enough to sleep on, and stable enough to bring girlfriends and a cooler of beer.

However, between replacing core, the verm job, and the laundry list of upgrades mandatory to make the '24 go fast, plus sails, running rigging, and all the ancillary costs of owning a boat, I'm having my doubts on whether the J/24 is the best choice. It seems like the cheapest option but also the biggest headache to get a competitive boat on the line.

Thoughts?

Regardless of the purchase price, unless you get a great deal, it will cost you $10 000 + to get a J24 up to speed. Add to that the mandatory 2-3 genoas a year if you want to stay competitive depending on the number of regattas you want to race. Then there's carrying a crew of five to regattas.

Add to that the dick pros that are mostly there at regattas to beat their customers and sell them newer sails. All that to say that you should go for a more modern design not so much gangrened by pros, easier and cheaper to sail. Stay away from the J24. You will thank me.   

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5 hours ago, Plumber said:

Regardless of the purchase price, unless you get a great deal, it will cost you $10 000 + to get a J24 up to speed. Add to that the mandatory 2-3 genoas a year if you want to stay competitive depending on the number of regattas you want to race. Then there's carrying a crew of five to regattas.

Add to that the dick pros that are mostly there at regattas to beat their customers and sell them newer sails. All that to say that you should go for a more modern design not so much gangrened by pros, easier and cheaper to sail. Stay away from the J24. You will thank me.   

Crew will probably be four-up since our average is around 200lb. 

Is it really $10,000? I understand that re-coring, the verm job and moving the keel are pretty arduous processes but are they that beyond mechanically-inclined twentysomethings? 

Looking at other boats in that size range, in my current neck of the woods J/70's are the dbag fleet of choice, and it seems like that's a national trend. 

What else fits the "cheap post-college keelboat" niche?

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There are two kinds of sailors. Those who understand and appreciate the J/24, and whiners who don't know how to sail a 4/5 person boat with a symmetrical spinnaker and a genoa.

My brother and I got a J/24 in our late teens and had it for 9 years. We and our friends had a blast with it and was a great boat to get started with keel boat one design as well as local PHRF sailing. It was a decent cruiser as well.

Unfortunately $10,000 is the correct estimate for a semi-competitive boat ($5,000 boat, $5,000 cheap, but decent set of sails).There are plenty of boats out there so you don't have to buy a project. Don't spend your time removing vermiculite or replacing soft core. Spend your time out on the water!

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I would also budget in any hatch conversion if you're going down the fixer-upper route.  Its been a while since I looked into it, but think that can be somewhat pricey if you keep it OD compliant.

as for phrf keelboats on the cheap, depending on your region, I'd look at Holder 20, Santana 20, Evelyn 25 (if you can find a nice dry one, they are the PHRF killer) or Capri 25.

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:35 PM, onepointfivethumbs said:

Crew will probably be four-up since our average is around 200lb. 

Is it really $10,000? I understand that re-coring, the verm job and moving the keel are pretty arduous processes but are they that beyond mechanically-inclined twentysomethings? 

Looking at other boats in that size range, in my current neck of the woods J/70's are the dbag fleet of choice, and it seems like that's a national trend. 

What else fits the "cheap post-college keelboat" niche?

J70 are developing into another pro/money driven class. I've heard some pretty bad stuff about racing in that fleet.

We raced last two years with a crew of 4. I actually like it more than racing with 5. More room to move around and actually stuff to  do for everybody.

Any Etchells in your area? Vipers?

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7 minutes ago, bloodshot said:

I would also budget in any hatch conversion if you're going down the fixer-upper route.  Its been a while since I looked into it, but think that can be somewhat pricey if you keep it OD compliant.

as for phrf keelboats on the cheap, depending on your region, I'd look at Holder 20, Santana 20, Evelyn 25 (if you can find a nice dry one, they are the PHRF killer) or Capri 25.

Pearson Flyer!

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The real question is "what is the "it" that you're trying to determine the worth of"?  What are the goals of your program? What's your budget? Are there fleets within reasonable driving distance that will help you grow the way you want?

Honestly, you haven't given enough information to determine if the boat will suit your goals (other than sparking bar BS); I think you need to spend more/deeper time threshing out the specific goals of your program and then reevaluating the class and the individual boat in accordance to those goals.

This is an interesting tool.

https://www.quantumsails.com/en/resources-and-expertise/articles/goal-setting-workbook

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53 minutes ago, Slim said:

Pearson Flyer!

I was trying to keep it under 24-26 feet or so, but yeah, you can find those for cheap as well.

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Well, If you are going west in the next 2-3 years Den/Oregon Cali Then look into a S20 or 2, or 3..  They can be had for around 2,500 and really competitive for 4.  Fleet is growing, 25 at Dillon for nats in 2016.  PHRF killer in the light,  Holds a cooler and can sleep a couple 20 somethings in a pinch.  Heck start a fleet...  :)

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Why not a J/22?  For $10k you can get a very nice race boat.  Cheap to campaign and really easy to pull around on the trailer.

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Its not about the boat, its about the fleet.  If you have a good fleet and want to learn, then the boat self-selects.

IF there is a local fleet, then J-24s teach a whole lot about rig trim, boat-on-boat tactics and sail handling.  They do NOT go fast.  But bang for the buck a get-started cheapish race boat, not much surpasses them  But, they are pain boxes.  Good sails are available post-nationals or worlds to ease the pain. 

Moore 24s are faster, more fun, also pain-boxes and are completely NOT one design.  Nor are they particularly symmetrical.  They belong on the Columbia Gorge making straight wakes and/or huge splashes.  

The others mentioned are all good, but...it's about the fleet.  They made more than 5,000 J-24s, ten times the others.

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This doesn't really answer your question, but: as you are currently in college, why not sail for your college program? It will handle all the headaches (letting you focus on actual sailing, as well as your studies), plus you'll benefit from coaching.

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On 11/27/2018 at 3:58 PM, onepointfivethumbs said:

I have another two(ish) years of school and my brother has three, neither of us knows where we will end up for work. We talked about getting one of the many used J/24's that pop up for cheap since it's a pretty universal class with fleets on all four coasts, big enough to sleep on, and stable enough to bring girlfriends and a cooler of beer.

However, between replacing core, the verm job, and the laundry list of upgrades mandatory to make the '24 go fast, plus sails, running rigging, and all the ancillary costs of owning a boat, I'm having my doubts on whether the J/24 is the best choice. It seems like the cheapest option but also the biggest headache to get a competitive boat on the line.

Thoughts?

it is worth it

my brother bought a J24 his senior year of high school, he loves the boat

if your gonna buy one I would suggest finding a competitive fleet like in newport

don't get a moore 24

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On 12/6/2018 at 7:22 PM, Will said:

Why not a J/22?  For $10k you can get a very nice race boat.  Cheap to campaign and really easy to pull around on the trailer.

yeah but it's a dying uncompetitive fleet

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:35 PM, onepointfivethumbs said:

Crew will probably be four-up since our average is around 200lb. 

Is it really $10,000? I understand that re-coring, the verm job and moving the keel are pretty arduous processes but are they that beyond mechanically-inclined twentysomethings? 

Looking at other boats in that size range, in my current neck of the woods J/70's are the dbag fleet of choice, and it seems like that's a national trend. 

What else fits the "cheap post-college keelboat" niche?

I owned and campaigned a J24 in the heyday of the class.  A word of caution, it was a relatively expensive annual cost.  There are four sails. If you want to be competitive, you will replace at least two per year, and four every other year.  The hull has to be kept in perfect shape and shit just breaks on boats.  Sheets and lines need replacing etc.  

I dont want to put you off because we had some great years in our J24.

We had a blast for all the reasons you mentioned. We slept on the boat at regattas. We could haul a cooler on the boat for beers on weekend afternoons and our girlfriends could come as crew.   I even cruised up the coast of Maine single handed one summer arriving in time for the OD J24 start in the Camden -Castine regatta.

But if I was twenty something again,  I would consider something smaller and more modern. Its better to spend your annual dollars on perfecting a smaller boat than always being stretched and having to compromise on a bigger boat. Depreciation is the lowest cost of sailing.  The really cheap boats are impossible to sell afterwards.

The other important criteria, is to look at the scene.  Half the fun of racing sailboats is the people you hang out with. When I was late 20 something/early 30 something the J24 had a very lively social scene of the same age group.  I think that might have shifted to some other classes now.

FWIW, the J22 that someone mentioned is an excellent boat...I had one of those before my J24. In hindsight the J22 is a much better sailing boat than the J24 and much easier to maintain. 

Also consider a boat that is easier to transport. Its great fun to travel to the occasional regatta.  Im biased but something like a Viper 640 has a lot of younger sailors, is easy to sail and inexpensive to run. Used older boats under hull#90 are around $10-$15k which might be above your budget but they wont depreciate much.  But its more of a race boat.

Depending on your location, what are the keelboat fleets?  Sonars...are reasonably inexpensive to run and it doesnt cost much to be competitive. Etchells are expensive to be competitive.  J70s will be absurdly expensive at the moment..still a top dollar program.

The Lightening is having a resurgence with a younger crowd but its not really a keel boat.

Overall.....its great that you are thinking this way. Go for it.  The first dollar I made out of college, I spent on a sail boat and I never regretted it. I have absolutely no fond memories of my first car but my first boat was very special.  Its really cool to be doing it with your brother.

 

 

 

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