T sailor

Bottom job costs

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Anyone have any recent price points on having bottom paint professionally stripped and redone?  38' r/c in the Annapolis area.  Looking at boats now and need to try to figure out what to budget for a bottom job.  

 

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For SF bay area I would assume $100 to $115 a foot for a sprayed bottom depending on difficulty of stripping

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9 hours ago, T sailor said:

Anyone have any recent price points on having bottom paint professionally stripped and redone?  38' r/c in the Annapolis area.  Looking at boats now and need to try to figure out what to budget for a bottom job.  

 

That for sure depends on what is on the boat now, what goes on the bottom during the redo, what the fairness of the boat is now/what is the desired fairness after, what level of sanding /burnishing are you looking for.  So without knowing this - between $4k'ish and $20K'ish

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how long is a piece of string? $50 per square foot. $75 a square foot? $20 a square foot?

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6 minutes ago, basketcase said:

how long is a piece of string?

twice the distance from the middle to one end ...................

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OK, so to be more specific, current bottom is ok, not top end racing finish, but ok for club racing.  I would want to strip it to change paint and maybe get it a little smoother.  Not Grand Prix.  In my mind I was thinking $3-5k but wasn't sure if that was in the ball park or not.  Was hoping to get feedback from someone who has had something similar done.

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Comparison:

Our standard slip to slip labor price for bottom jobs is $60 per foot plus $6 per foot for every foot over 25 feet

25 foot boat —- $1500

30 Foot boat  @$90 —$2700

35 foot boat @$120— $4200

 the package includes picking the boat up at its slip, hauling it to our shop, power wash of bottom, acid wash to remove calcium deposits (deposits usually grow at least a foot above the waterline on our lake), prepping surface for adhesion of new antifoulant, antifoulant application, full rigging and light inspection, general power wash of topsides and deck, return to lake, raise mast and tune rig according to how we understand your sailing style, Park the boat in its slip.

many factors can jack up those prices.

 

1. If we must pay your marina for mast  crane use or marina staff help... we pass those fees to you.

2. Blisters... Once your boat has soaked for a few years the expected lifetime blistering is relatively easy to diagnose. Generally, we find and repair 80-90% of the existing blisters on our first try. We generally find about 90% of the rest every three or four years. We occasionally find one or two failed blister repairs but for the most part, a repaired blister is fixed for the life of the boat. 

Since 1995 we have charged $500 per day plus materials for blister repair. (That number is about to change as $50 1995 is well over $80 today)  We use close to $200 per day in materials to fill and sand. A 30 foot boat with horrible blister problems can consume over three days of our time. 

Hulls we have previously repaired hardly ever have sufficient new blisters to consume a full day three or four years later. 

Some  boats are hopeless blisterers  and should live on hydrohoists. 

At our shop antifouling paints range in price from $100 to $350 per gallon. As we service fresh water boats where zebra mussels and slime are the only foulants, we can generally create a three or four year bottom. Waiting longer than four years invariably causes MUCH MORE WORK whenever the owner finally gets around to scheduling another bottom job. 

Also: It is totally unrealistic to compare our prices to a coastal service provider. Their focus is primarily antifouling. The best cheapest coastal bottoms might be soft antifoulants that come off when pressure washed.  

on our lake the goal is to create sufficient thickness and durability such that the bottom can be cleaned dozens of times over multiple years. (If we spend twice as much to last four years... we actually spend half  as much as annual bottoms)

 

epoxy—-/ Always a good idea. Epoxy can only be applied when 100% of the antifoulant is removed. That sort of meticulous sanding adds about $500 on a 25 foot boat and as much as $2000 on a 35 foot boat. There is no better time to apply epoxy than when the boat is brand new. Application of epoxy costs about $250 per gallon including labor and materials. We generally apply 150%-200% of the manufactured recommended thickness. (Why? Warm water. My chemistry teacher said something about reactions happening twice as fast every 7 to 10 degrees.  I think the epoxy directions might be right for the Chesapeake Bay. Lake Travis almost hits 90 every summer. )

Burnishing antifoulant : You can do that yourself. No way in hell we are doing that shit for anybody. 

 

Mast lights and rigging:

we try your lights and, if they don’t light, even try new bulbs. If the fixtures are shot we generally install them if you buy them from us. If the wiring is shot and “make my lights work” turns into a project, we charge our shop hourly rate.

Currently that rate is about $100 per hour. 

Bad shrouds, turnbuckles, halyards:

If we find a problem, we obtain prices for replacements and, if you are willing to buy those replacements, we can usually install the replacements without adding labor charges to your bill. 

Compounding and waxing  topsides costs about $20 per foot and we use the cost of materials as a fudge factor. We might use $150 in materials on an ugly difficult 30 foot boat and charge $750. A similar sized boat that barely needs compounding might be polished and waxed for $300

OK... my finger is tired 

 

 

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Thanks Gouv,

appreciate all the info.  I always enjoy how much you are willing to share on these forums.  

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My definition of "wealthy" is you can afford to pay somebody to do this to your boat in a first world country...

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i am trying to ascertain costs for all the work needed to try to optimize my time/dollars.  I never considered myself wealthy.  Just budgeting, saving to try to make the dream happen.  But I do realize I am privileged just to be in a position to be contemplating this dream.  Thanks for the input.

Cheers,

T

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The most budget will go to any fairing to be done. The closer to perfect you get - the more expensive it gets.

As someone suggested above, 4-20k is pretty good estimate, hauling costs excluded. Of that 20k job the materials alone will be atleast that 4k. 

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But..... unless you plan to race in a large fleet of otherwise identical boats, you will never be able to measure the difference in performance because your bottom has had those extra hundreds of hours spent on it.

and...

what you really need most?? >>>

somebody who actually understands foil shapes and understands enough about your particular boats sailing characteristics  to design a contributing modification 

and you need someone who actually knows how to accomplish the work 

On the other  hand...

it really is  simple 

what is your complaint? 

Modify the boat to fix it

 

usual best fix??  Get a boat that does what you want 

if it bothers you that your J-70 won’t pull waterskiiers, buy a ski boat!!! 

 

 

 

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On 11/29/2018 at 12:30 AM, Gouvernail said:

 

At our shop antifouling paints range in price from $100 to $350 per gallon. As we service fresh water boats where zebra mussels and slime are the only foulants, we can generally create a three or four year bottom.

 

 

Guv, what are y'all using down there?

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We are fiddling with Black Widow. We have VC Offshore and VC 17 fans. But most cruisers??>>>. Lots of Petit Cooperguard

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I am having my bottom redone for dry sailing with final surface done in awlcraft.

55 a foot for soda blast and rough verbal estimate was 6k for bottom to be done from there by a company at bert jabins.

This is on a 32 foot boat.

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On 11/28/2018 at 7:43 AM, T sailor said:

Anyone have any recent price points on having bottom paint professionally stripped and redone?  38' r/c in the Annapolis area.  Looking at boats now and need to try to figure out what to budget for a bottom job.  

It varies a lot depending on what you need to do.  In Seattle on a 37' racer/cruiser:

Roughly $2k to pull the boat, rough sand the bottom, roll on a new finish.  Around here yards just have a generic service package for that type of bottom job.  You probably don't want it if you are racing.

Roughly $10-12k to totally remove the bottom down to gelcoat, new barrier coat, fair everything, spray new paint, and burnish the finish.  That is what I did on my boat to handle tons of tiny blisters that were between two old barrier coats.  It's made a huge difference in our light and moderate air performance.  We negotiated a flat rate for the work vs paying an hourly rate, and got a generous off season discount.

I used Interlux Baltoplate, which is sort of the default race finish in Puget Sound and seems to have a bad reputation everywhere else.

Prices vary a lot yard to yard.  

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17 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

We are fiddling with Black Widow. We have VC Offshore and VC 17 fans. But most cruisers??>>>. Lots of Petit Cooperguard

Any success stories with Black widow? 

It seems relatively new with not a lot of yards having experience with it.

Thanks,

Mark

 

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2 hours ago, Alex W said:

It varies a lot depending on what you need to do.  In Seattle on a 37' racer/cruiser:

 Roughly $2k to pull the boat, rough sand the bottom, roll on a new finish.  Around here yards just have a generic service package for that type of bottom job.  You probably don't want it if you are racing.

 Roughly $10-12k to totally remove the bottom down to gelcoat, new barrier coat, fair everything, spray new paint, and burnish the finish.  That is what I did on my boat to handle tons of tiny blisters that were between two old barrier coats.  It's made a huge difference in our light and moderate air performance.  We negotiated a flat rate for the work vs paying an hourly rate, and got a generous off season discount.

 I used Interlux Baltoplate, which is sort of the default race finish in Puget Sound and seems to have a bad reputation everywhere else.

 Prices vary a lot yard to yard.  

How long is your boat?

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37' (it says that in the first line and in my signature)

 

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I looked into this a couple years ago for a 35' boat and it was about $7k and the contractor worked out of Jabins mostly, and there may have been a guy doing the same thing at Port Annapolis.  I suspect that is for a basic racing bottom job, and that anything uncovered during the process (blisters, pitting in the gel coat) is likely to add to it, but I do not known.  I wasn't clear at the time whether there was an epoxy barrier coat included in the price, or soda blasting vs. a good basic sanding.  If that's not included, count on a couple thousand more.  

Petit Trinidad Pro works really well around NapTown.  Make sure you get the non-California version if you use it.  It starts out a little bit rough but if you have a competent cleaner, it is pretty close to a burnished finish after a couple cleanings.  Not grand prix good, but good enough for racing around here.  We're a newish program and not killing it in our OD class but our boat - which was previously a fast hull for the class - is still a fast hull, even though it's no longer a Baltoplate bottom.  The Trinidad Pro is used by a lot of the local fast guys who wetsail their big boats. 

FWIW, I started from a great racing bottom with Baltoplate, close to perfect, and just added Trinidad, appropriately thinned with the right thinner.  I roll, fair any chips or rough spots, light sand them, touch them up and put it in the water.  It isn't burnished looking to start with but there are no dips/chips/cracks.  When it comes out at the end of the season it is shiny so it's at its best during the big fall races we focus on.    Haven't pulled it in June so I don't know what the bottom is like then.

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