S2 6.9 Grand Slam

[YCpunk! 0]

So, I've got an opportunity to buy this s2 6.9 that's for sale in my club. (pretty cheap!)

 

I was wondering if anyone here has owned, raced on, or raced against one of these boats.

 

Kinda looking for advice....

 

It's got newer sails, (all 2001 or later, with very little use), all the gear I need/want, except for a chute.

 

The little sucker seems pretty quick. I was commitee boat today for a single handed race in 14-16 kt. winds, waves 4-6 ft. and it crossed the line second in a fleet of mainly Pearson 26's.

 

I think the PHRF-LO is 210 with a chute, somewhere around 227 without.... not sure though..

 

 

What do you guys think?

 

thanks,

punk

[Trendsetter 0]

its some what of an odd duck boat as not as many were built unlike its bigger brother then 7.9 however it is a nice little fast boat we have one down across the creek from our yard they hold there own quite well

[JeffR 8]

I know a lot about them. I owned one and helped start their class association. www.sail-s2.org

 

It is a great little boat and a lot of fun to own. I raced mine and never did that well. I thought the boat had trouble sailing to it's rating. I could finish near the top if I sailed what felt like a perfect race but was never able to consistenly win in it. I have a lot of the same crew and do much better in my current boat, an S2 9.1.

 

it is strongest in light air and flat water. It does not sail well in chop and is tender, so a handful in any stronger winds. But still a rugged little boat. I sailed it out in RI and BI sounds quite a bit.

 

If you want a nice easy to own daysailor it is a great boat. It can be used for a pocket cruiser, but it is really cramped.

 

If you race it you may find it hard to consistently come out on top but it is an easy and fun boat to sail. It really feels l ike a dinghy with that lifting keel.

 

feel free to PM and ask me any questions about the boat.

 

Look closely at the keel, any damage there is a pain to repair. If it is older than 84 look for blisters too.

[keeldragger 18]

I thought the S26.9 was the cruising boat that the S2 6.7 was the grand slam racing boat?

[YCpunk! 0]

I know a lot about them. I owned one and helped start their class association. www.sail-s2.org

 

It is a great little boat and a lot of fun to own. I raced mine and never did that well. I thought the boat had trouble sailing to it's rating. I could finish near the top if I sailed what felt like a perfect race but was never able to consistenly win in it. I have a lot of the same crew and do much better in my current boat, an S2 9.1.

 

it is strongest in light air and flat water. It does not sail well in chop and is tender, so a handful in any stronger winds. But still a rugged little boat. I sailed it out in RI and BI sounds quite a bit.

 

If you want a nice easy to own daysailor it is a great boat. It can be used for a pocket cruiser, but it is really cramped.

 

If you race it you may find it hard to consistently come out on top but it is an easy and fun boat to sail. It really feels l ike a dinghy with that lifting keel.

 

feel free to PM and ask me any questions about the boat.

 

Look closely at the keel, any damage there is a pain to repair. If it is older than 84 look for blisters too.

You must be The Jeff that I read about on the web site.

 

Thanks for the info....

About the boat sailing to it's rating, that's pretty much my only concern with the boat. It's rating is going to put me in the largest class in my club against some good racers.

 

The bottom is in good shape, I checked it out this spring. I have no idea what kind of shape the keel is in.

 

What kind of problems/damage do you know of with the lifting keels? Are they a pain to work with?

[Ringmaster 0]

I looked at 6.9s about 17 years ago but wound up buying a Merit 22 which is a very similar boat. They weigh about the same, they have about the same sail area and they both use a lifting lead keel. They are both well made and good looking. My plan was to save boat yard money by storing the boat at home in the winter. The big problem with storing it on a trailer and then keeping it in the water for the summer is the fact you can't paint half the keel when it's on the trailer. So you wind up needing the services of a marina anyway. The best way to handle the problem is to have a marina let it hang from the lift over a weekend. This is usually fairly cheap since they are not blocking the boat. Paint the keel with a multi season ablative and your good for about 3 years. I guess if you run aground traveling at hull speed you are going to do damage to the keel trunk but you can also do damage to a keel boat. The Merit has positive foam flotation. 2 guys in Annapolis slamed the bottom while motoring at 6 kts doing real damage. They were able to motor home after taking on quite a bit of water. Both boats rate about the same as a Catalina 27 tall rig. We won a few races with the Merit but we lost more than we won. This was probably mostly due to our inexperience at the time. I owned the Merit for 9 years and never got tired of looking at it. Good luck.

[JeffR 8]

.... It's rating is going to put me in the largest class in my club against some good racers.

 

What kind of problems/damage do you know of with the lifting keels? Are they a pain to work with?

i found i often had to race against bigger slow-for-their-size type boats, which made it tougher

 

The keel is a fiberglass shell filled with lead and epoxy foam. If the outer shell is damaged the foam will swell up. There are tight tolerances in the keel slot, so repairs have to be perfect. Typical damage is to the lower leading edge and the upper trailing edge.

 

the keel can be lifted out of the boat easily with a gin pole or other arrangement. It is about 500 #s

[JeffR 8]

I thought the S26.9 was the cruising boat that the S2 6.7 was the grand slam racing boat?

they were both grand slams. they have identical hulls, but different decks, keels, & rigs. some say the 6.7 is more competitive.

 

the cruising version was the S2 22 it had a solid hull (instead of balsa) and a stuby little wing keel. much slower.

[O25 dude 0]

Thinking about getting one of these for mixed fleet PHRF racing and am wondering if anyone else can comment...anyone racing on or against one of these? How about the OP? Any help is appreciated,

 

Dan

[sailfastliveslow 0]

Buy a Viper and be done with it, mate.

[Mike West 0]

Dan,

 

My father and I raced a 6.9 for quite a while just the two of us when I was a teenager. It was a great boat traveling and was easy to set up and take down for travel races, etc... We ran no chute for years and did quite well. When we got the spinnaker, and after we got tuned in with it, we did well in mixed PHRF fleets. Great trailer/weekender/travel boat. We still have some at the club and they do well. I now sail a 7.9.

 

Things to look at will be the keel like everyone has been saying. The repairs are not usually extreme. Also look at the rudder blade for flexing/cracks in the area around the side plates and at the pivot axis.

 

Also be aware of any area like stantions, pintles and gudgeons where they are bolted through the hull or decks. The balsa core will rot if moisture has gotten there. Not always a deal breaker if you are handy and the problem is not bad.

 

Overall it was a great boat and we had a great time of it. Like one of the guys said earlier, in the light breeze and smooth water it was great. It/we had a hard time in heavier wind and waves.

[akeeley4834 12]

Buy a Lindenberg 22. You'll beat all of the other boats mentioned. There is one for sale in Florida at the Davis Island YC. It is a great boat, I was fhe former owner. Did a swap with the existing owner for another boat. Look on e-bay. I think there are two days left to bid. It is worth the asking price. Needs nothing.

[Mike West 0]

We had a Lindenberg 22 in our fleet as well... in light air we kicked 'em around the course pretty well, but when the breeze built, the hard chines were really good for them.

[O25 dude 0]

Thank you both very much for the responses. I actually traded emails with the owner of that L22 - I'm interested in the boat, but I live in VA and won't be able to get down there till early December so it'll probably be gone by then. If not, I'll try to go see it while I'm down there for work.

 

The S2 is here locally. Price is about the same as the L22. My primary concern is whether the 6.9 will sail to her rating...some have said not, but I'm wondering if its been the boat or the owners. Looking at the ratios and dimensions of the boat, a 210 rating seems reasonable. Seems like a sweet little boat overall. I'd drysail her, ramping launching on Wednesday nights. Think that'll be a problem? I'm looking at her tomorrow, BTW.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

[dew 8]

WOW that is the best looking L22 I have ever seen and I have one. That guy has a ton of sweat and $$ in that little boat. These are older boats and Paul Lindenberg never had a reputation of making but such a good boat. It does have a foam core so no balsa worries. They are great little boats and can be sailed to their rating while giving away water line and beating boats with a gift rating such as the Catalina 27. We have done well against a many J24 in the right conditions.

 

We use to race against a 6.9 Grand Slam many years ago. He was on his game at the time, we were not so they generally won. I always liked the S2 and have had thoughts of getting one mainly on the logic it was a better built boat. All of the L22 have likely been raced hard which can be good if it was maintained but if not; we have all seen that no matter who built the boat.

 

From my experience both boat can be competitive if sailed by the right crew. Neither one likes chop but who would expect them to, light with short water line. I think they are just as completive in big air as light air. The in between is hard as many other boat do well in moderate conditions.

 

Thanks for the ebay link I am pretty psyched seeing that L22. Damn I got a lot of work to do.

 

Dwight

https://sites.google.com/site/middlepotomac/

[Firefly-DC 204]

Thank you both very much for the responses. I actually traded emails with the owner of that L22 - I'm interested in the boat, but I live in VA and won't be able to get down there till early December so it'll probably be gone by then. If not, I'll try to go see it while I'm down there for work.

 

The S2 is here locally. Price is about the same as the L22. My primary concern is whether the 6.9 will sail to her rating...some have said not, but I'm wondering if its been the boat or the owners. Looking at the ratios and dimensions of the boat, a 210 rating seems reasonable. Seems like a sweet little boat overall. I'd drysail her, ramping launching on Wednesday nights. Think that'll be a problem? I'm looking at her tomorrow, BTW.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

 

To some degree it depends what you are racing against. I've been racing against one for the last 10 years in fleet that ranges from the S2's 210 up to a 90 rater. under those circumstances it has trouble competing. on the ocasions when it had the chance to race in a smaller rating band it did do better. Unlike it's big brother the 7.9, it's not self righting with the board up, so you can't raise it down wind and I suspect that hurts it a little bit. as far as dry sailing and ramp launching, it should be easy. We had a couple of 7.9s and a 6.7 dry sail/ramp launch every tuesday night and it was easy wit a good ramp.

[Mike West 0]

Dry sailing is fine with the 6.9. (hmm that rhymes...)

 

For the first 4-5 years we owned the 6.9 we dry sailed it every weekend. We had the full set up and launch to just over 30 minutes from stick down to in the water and ready to race with two of us. We were in Nebraska and the lake had no dock or mooring options, so we hauled it to and from the lake each week. The take down took about 45 minutes because sails needed to be put away and we were worn out a bit from the day's racing.

 

Also, shallow ramps for launching are really not a problem.

 

We really enjoyed the 6.9, but the Lindenburg is a really good boat too and would have many of the same features/benefits of the S2. In our experience, both sailed well to the rating and with the right crew on any given day could compete.

[JeffR 8]

Back to my experience, I raced a lot of J22s and J24s with my 6.9. I had good sails and and always had trouble pointing with the Js. Because the keel has tight tolerances in the keel box, you can not do anything about he keel shape. I moved up to the 9.1, mostly same crew and we are VERY competitive in that boat, always in the top 3, just won our summer series. So I think the rating of the 6.9 had something to do with it.

 

If you sail the 6.9 fat and fast it seems to make it's best VMG. I never had polars but experience seemed to prove that out. But being one of the slower boats for it's size, lack of pointing ability was a real disadvantage hte first leg of races. By the time we got some clear lanes lead boats were way in front of us.