Wess

Really cool trimaran for sale - no ad; not mine!

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Ran across this on another forum and recall there are a few folks on here looking.

I have known this boat boat forever and my wife and I often watched her sail out of Barnegat Bay decades ago. 

Worth a look if you are in the market for fast and fun and well built.  Not mine and no vested interest.  Just happen to think she is one cool boat!

 

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Didn't I point you in that boats direction in the last year or so Wess?

    I would love to see this boat and have talked to the owner/builder. Guy really know his stuff and wish I had the change to buy the boat. He turned me on to the sparbuilder that we are getting a new CF tri-axial woven wing mast from. 

    Thanks for the link.

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12 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Didn't I point you in that boats direction in the last year or so Wess?

    I would love to see this boat and have talked to the owner/builder. Guy really know his stuff and wish I had the change to buy the boat. He turned me on to the sparbuilder that we are getting a new CF tri-axial woven wing mast from. 

    Thanks for the link.

You may have Rasp. A few folks did.  And to be fair we knew about her long long long before. We watched her be built.  We watched her maiden sail (I think).  She has a place in our hearts. 

For a long time the wife and I were determined to go back to a cat for cruising.  But it proved impossible to find one that could do what we wanted so finally gave that quest up this Fall and started searching for a tri we could cruise on.  For various reasons, this still would not have been right for us.  Can't fold or trailer for one (though admittedly what we bought is only marginally trailerable needing wide load permits).  The second is its always hard to buy the bride off Dad.  He is emotionally invested (rightfully so; she is a beauty) and I suspect its gonna be an expensive dowry.  And there are better racers for the price and better cruisers for the price.  Need a unique owner for this.  But it is a really really cool boat that at least when I last saw her was very well loved and cared for.

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

So Keith is your Dad? That explains a lot! What did you recently buy?

Jody

Whoa Nelly!  LOL, no; the owner is not my Dad.  We picked up a project.  Big project.  A boat Ian loved to hate...  I am guessing that sort of gives it away, yes?

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4 minutes ago, Wess said:

 

We bought a C-ough Cough-orsair 36 trimaran.

Wess

There was a little earthquake in Christchurch NZ just now!

He would have had a bit of satisfaction that you went into it with your eyes wide open though.

How about some pictures?

Paul

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Wess,

    I'll clear out my box, sorry. Congrats on the C-36. I did a survey on one of the first that had dismasted on a Texas-Mexico race. Owned by a guy in Oklahoma I think who thought he was going to trailer it between all three coasts and win lots of races and fill his mantle with trophies. Didn't work out so well for him. I'll give you the details on PM. 

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15 minutes ago, teamvmg said:

There was a little earthquake in Christchurch NZ just now!

He would have had a bit of satisfaction that you went into it with your eyes wide open though.

How about some pictures?

Paul

LOL.  No pics yet.  All I have is before. Need the after!  If its really something of interest drop me a PM and we can connect on Facebook where all the work is on-line for friends to follow.

And folks I am not going to comment further on the C36 here.  Happy to chat off line but its not fair for me to be sharing other folks story on line.  But there is already stuff posted here that I know for a fact ain't true (that you may be unaware of).  Its why I avoid talking about the boat on line except with friends.  Let me just say we went in eyes open and we will let our (and the boat's) walking do our talking!!

Lets go back to the cool offshore tri shown above - Burrage 40!  Go Jersey Boyz!!!

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If I recall correctly, Ian thought there was a huge problem with the bulkheads on the C36 to the point that they were unsafe.  Are you modifying yours at all?

 

The price on the Burrage 40 seems way too high.  Who's buying it over something like this: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2013/dragonfly-35-3231388/?refSource=standard listing

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To each his own but I for one would much rather sail the Burrage.  I really prefer the stripped down, high power boat without all the stainless, steering wheel and assorted mumbo jumbo. Though the Dragonfly does appear quite comfy.  The Burrage is really beautiful too.

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Glorious!  Really pricey for a 27 year old boat though right? A nice looking Newick Traveler 52 just went for $275k or so I think. 

I’d be looking at a second mortgage if it was on the west coast at $175 or so. 

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Thanks for posting Wess I think she is one cool boat too - but I may be a little biased. Yes she is 27 years old but on both the outings in the video she still wows me and after her latest upgrade she looks and is in the best shape ever.

I have delivered 30’, 32’ and 35’ Dragonfly’s offshore to and from Annapolis boat shows, in the full range from calms to a full gale and I can assure you that performance wise Skateaway would absolutely destroy them, in all those conditions.

 Sadly there has still never been an honest to goodness light, strong, fast, safe and weatherly production 40’ trimaran and these boats are fabulous. Huge fleet of hi-tech Class 40 monohulls in the recent Route du Rhum and no interest in a modern 40 tri which would be so much faster, what a shame. This boat is going to out live me and properly maintained the next owner too.

  Beats me why the market moves increasingly in the direction of berthing manoeverabily with bow thrusters, RV type interiors and heavy compromising folding systems, more weight, more expense and increasingly miserable sailing performance when these type of boats can be so much better. Just maintaining all that complicated crap is a turn off. 

   Sailing this boat to Bermuda in 67 hours without using any fossil fuel beats the stuff out of dragging some compromise down the highway to an appointment with the maintenance guy in an expensive marina, what’s this fixation with the road trip - I wanna go sailing!

 

   

  

 

 

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5 hours ago, boardhead said:

Thanks for posting Wess I think she is one cool boat too - but I may be a little biased. Yes she is 27 years old but on both the outings in the video she still wows me and after her latest upgrade she looks and is in the best shape ever.

I have delivered 30’, 32’ and 35’ Dragonfly’s offshore to and from Annapolis boat shows, in the full range from calms to a full gale and I can assure you that performance wise Skateaway would absolutely destroy them, in all those conditions.

 Sadly there has still never been an honest to goodness light, strong, fast, safe and weatherly production 40’ trimaran and these boats are fabulous. Huge fleet of hi-tech Class 40 monohulls in the recent Route du Rhum and no interest in a modern 40 tri which would be so much faster, what a shame. This boat is going to out live me and properly maintained the next owner too.

  Beats me why the market moves increasingly in the direction of berthing manoeverabily with bow thrusters, RV type interiors and heavy compromising folding systems, more weight, more expense and increasingly miserable sailing performance when these type of boats can be so much better. Just maintaining all that complicated crap is a turn off. 

   Sailing this boat to Bermuda in 67 hours without using any fossil fuel beats the stuff out of dragging some compromise down the highway to an appointment with the maintenance guy in an expensive marina, what’s this fixation with the road trip - I wanna go sailing!

 

   

  

 

 

Boardhead -

Thanks for building her.  And sailing her.  And inspiring us.  You have no way to know this but it is because of you and that boat that my wife and I sail tris.  I wish you the very very best for her and pray a new owner is found and treats her as well.  

I first sailed with my grandfather on barnegat bay.  My parents had no interest - they were more into mountaineering - but the bug bit me and I picked up sailing again later with a girlfriend that became my wife of now 30 plus years.  Its so long ago but I think I recall seeing the build and wondering what it was and then seeing her sail.  I vaguely recall (and could easily be wrong) her being bearthed at a house on the bay side of the barrier island (ie east side of the bay) and maybe (?) being beached after one of the hurricanes.  We were so happy to see her later out sailing and looking as good as ever. Think we rowed around her a few dozen times at Tices just admiring her.  She (and you) were/are so ahead of your time.  We loved seeing her at anchor and loved seeing her sail.  Because of her we lusted after trimarans and eventually bought one (an F27F) which we sailed and raced for almost 2 decades.

For my wife and I, the racing thing has gotten old (she was never into it) and we will be mostly cruising the new (to us) tri.  We love simple systems and don't want to sleep 10 people so I can't answer your questions there.  As to folding; I can.  We bought folding obviously and the reason was simple... it increased our range significantly.  We will keep her on the east coast mid Atlantic and can sail from Maine to the Islands but we also want to do Sea of Cortez/Baha and an inside passage to Alaska.  We could not do that - given kids and sick parents we care for - unless the boat could be folded and trailered.  So while we were willing to give up bridge-deck living of the offshore cats we had owned and some greater load carrying ability, we wanted to have the trailerability when picking a tri.

Obviously you need a new owner that loves offshore racing as much as family cruising. I am sure that person is out there its just not me (us) any more.  I hope you find him/her or they find you and Skateaway lives on in all her splendor and glory!

Oh and God YES!!!  I would love to see a fleet of these things racing in the RdR.

Best wishes my friend,

Wess

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Here on the west coast the main problem with a larger, non-folder is the difficulty and expense of finding a place to keep her.  

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Same problem on the East Coast. Basically narrows your ownership potential to folks that own waterfront homes/properties with wide enough slips/t-docks to handle a tri. The other shame is there aren't too many offshore races that would allow a 40' tri to compete; the RdR multi perhaps, Ft. Lauderdal-Key West and RORC 600 come to mind but that's about it for the East Coast (sort of). Still, really nice boat and I hope it finds a good owner!

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    mundt

We bought a wreck of a water front house in New Jersey with 128’ of delapidated bulkhead then busted out a pieceof the bulkhead and built a 40’ x40’ x5’ rise ramp to launch/retrieve and dock Skateaway right after we finished building the amas 80 miles away in Pennsylvania. The 535 pound weight, 17,600 pounds of flotation amas were trailed there on a lightweight, extended trailer behind our humble Dodge Omni. Four years later after doing the same trailer trip with the 440 pound beams, 1,300 pound main hull (behind an F150) and 17’ 6” long daggerboard, all assembled on that lot we dragged her manually on rugs to the ramp, raised the 360 pound Gougeon C section mast with an A frame and slid her down the ramp and out into the water on huge, rubber coated, hull form rollers we made. It was easy! 

She floated high with an absurd amount of bottom paint showing because she weighed as calculated and was not carrying her designed 2,000 pound payload that we knew from previous experience on our home built 32’ Kelsall was required for a couple to blue water cruise,

Skateaway has been berthed at that house all her 27 year life without a scratch including Sandy and The Perfect Storm. The money not spent on Marinas and Hull Insurance (yes we carry personal and liability) well exceeds her material cost.

This coastline and cruising area works perfectly for these fabulous boats. We have the New England in Summer, Bermuda and the Bahamas in the Winter and safe, secure Barnegat Bay year round.

You might consider relocating and a different approach.

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Wess

You are very kind, can’t believe we never met, we should, maybe I can help with your new project. Your plans are adventurous and I respect your rationale. 

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1 hour ago, samc99us said:

Same problem on the East Coast. Basically narrows your ownership potential to folks that own waterfront homes/properties with wide enough slips/t-docks to handle a tri. The other shame is there aren't too many offshore races that would allow a 40' tri to compete; the RdR multi perhaps, Ft. Lauderdal-Key West and RORC 600 come to mind but that's about it for the East Coast (sort of). Still, really nice boat and I hope it finds a good owner!

Sam - A2B.  Great winter racing scene in the islands.  N2B and other will open wider with time and experience. This boat is right up your alley.  Or @Mizzmo.  Or @kbcH20

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I had the pleasure of sailing on Skateaway (thanks Keith) and racing against her on another OSTAR try in the Highlands fling - seriously, why is that race not an east coast major after the Gotham cup!

Skateaway is FAST, well thought, and bulletproof, and it is a shame that the thoughts listed above are preventing her from moving to the next caretaker.  (I unfortunately have spent my money on an extremely slow moving wooden vessel named my house.  But am hopefully getting a f242 to park behind her.

Maybe take her down to the Carribean 600 renamed as 4 Sale and kick everyones butt?

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Totally wicked boat. I love the way the wake exits her stern, its just so smooth. I also love the interior design philosophy ,for a non-liveaboard cruiser it makes so much sense. Unfortunately the price, and the logistics make it totally a non starter on my Govt Salary. I think the potential buyers market for this boat is unfortunately very small.

 

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Since I live 20 minutes away, I’m going to go down and take a Gawk again at Skateaway and the Lady Hawk. I was working on a boat one day and drove around the corner and “WHAM!” There they both were- Skateway in front of Lady Hawk. 

I had first seen Skateaway at Ocean Gate Yacht basin after it was painted. The job was flawless.

It was then that I regretted having so many monohulls tying up my money. 

Keith, you built some great boats,my man!

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On 12/4/2018 at 10:18 PM, socalrider said:

Glorious!  Really pricey for a 27 year old boat though right? A nice looking Newick Traveler 52 just went for $275k or so I think. 

I’d be looking at a second mortgage if it was on the west coast at $175 or so. 

If I remember correctly, not certain of the exact age and dollar amounts, Virgin Fire was around the same age and was initially listed for about the same price. Years later I saw a listing for her and she was sold for around $85,000.

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     That’s probably about right and I think Joe holds the record for the longest listing, around 24 years!

      In the end he pretty much gave it away, a 50’+ wooden trimaran built to the requirements of a very remarkable sailor and his girlfriend - one double berth in a huge vessel - it worked for Joe - I guess another younger Joe didn’t show up to pick up the ball.

     The man built Transient (a 35’ Newick tri that is better than any 35’ Newick tri) in Maine, sailed her down to StJohn, USVI, at some point decided to sail direct to Plymouth, UK and take part in the TWOSTAR and win his class with Jody, then sail back down to StJohn. His next boat, an ill conceived “NewMoon” ama  forty footer was lost right after he sold it in horrible Hugo.

     So what does this have to do with Skateaway?

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Over complicated flat out racer with seriously questionable offshore stability issues that was not a winner when she was new.

Interior accommodations to include your wife and kids in the fun - no.

Currently races mostly against performance cruiser/racer cats that can include your family - like Skateaway and the original F40 concept I designed to, cost similar to my boat but sail slower.

Multi 50’s again flat out race boats with huge maintenance and campaign funding budgets. Different sort of boats with only three hull similarities.

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Didn’t mean any offense - your boat is clearly really special and unique. Pricing something like that is really tricky since the market is so small - east coast + trimaran + $300k budget. It’s a pain even selling a commodity boat like a Catalina 36. Having your own mooring and patience certainly helps your cause a ton - I’m always amazed here in SD seeing C36’s and their ilk for sale, overpriced at $45k, rotting away unused in their $650/month slips for years.  

GLWTS - she deserves a special home!  I’ll keep my eyes out for buyers. Incidentally, how hard (expensive) would it be to get a boat like that to the west coast?

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The market will always take care of prices,

if there's buyers that are interested, a price will be negotiated and agreed on,

if there's no interested buyers, then boats will sit on the market for a very, very, long time.

Its always been that way and wont change.

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Two years ago I gave Rick W a tour and I think the (still in reassembly after refinishing) boat intimidated him a little.

He checked out a Chris White kinda copy built beautifully and similarly by LoneStar in Brownsville TX for Steve Gross and bought her for more than I was (am) asking for Skateaway. His rationale - the boat was ready to go and was by a “name” designer, who made several engineering mistakes I helped Steve resolve, quite a story there.

The boat was sailed by a delivery crew with the ex- owner to Ft Lauderdale (I saw her there where I was helping the owner of a TRT 1200 cat recently shipped from Seattle WA area sail over to the Bahamas) then shipped as deck cargo via the Panama Canal to the West Coast where Rick collected her. I will check with Rick and Charlie (the TRT owner) for their costs but it recall it was not that big a deal. Rick ended up with a sorted offshore capable boat after an awful experience(s) with an imported Carbon 37 tri that failed her inadequate mast in the Bay Area then was lost after a collision returning from Hawaii.

I do want to say here that while I will defend the many decisions made in making my ideal boat (when I was 40) that I don’t want this forum to become a sales pitch. WESS posted my video, I have never met or spoken to WESS but I know my stuff and do have opinions about the sad state of affordable offshore trimarans, a platform that has brought me so much enjoyment while remaining elusive to the boat buying public. I am not a professional boat designer or builder, a DIY who sailed a lot and know my way around the structural demands and engineering options.

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19 hours ago, boardhead said:

 I am not a professional boat designer or builder, a DIY who sailed a lot and know my way around the structural demands and engineering options.

I can think of a number of "name" designer and builder boats that have done far less and have no where near the longevity of Skateaway!

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On 12/8/2018 at 10:09 AM, EarthBM said:

In all fairness, the price is not close to where it can sell. Other similarly fast F40 type tris are around 35-40% of the asking price. (Eg https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/custom-40-trimaran-3241807/)

And Milti50s around 50%.

most people do there sailing on a lazyboy at home, all boats have compromises, beams, rocker, layups etc, looking at Skateaway she is a pleasant compromise.  Most boats need some level of tic, last I saw skateaway the owner made her perfect to sailaway, I wouldn't of paid $30k to paint my boat to sell, but for those that can afford to go first class she is a prize.  

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   socalrider  -   the TRT 1200 cost $16G to ship from Ft Lauderdale to Vancouver - 15 years ago and $25G to ship from Victoria BC to Ft Lauderdale - 2 years ago, Charlie likes his boat a lot - and his new home on the Tred Avon River. The Jones act makes it less expensive to ship US to non US or non US to US ports. This is obviously a longer and more expensive delivery than Ft Lauderdale to a Mexican port which you would use for your San Diego delivery. You could pay more or less, need to shop the job.

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Can’t wait to stop by tomorrow and see the boat up close! I’m the guy your neighbors say was drooling :D

8856A2DF-D033-4D9C-8C75-ED600F5FC299.jpeg

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On 12/8/2018 at 11:29 AM, boardhead said:

The man built Transient (a 35’ Newick tri that is better than any 35’ Newick tri) in Maine, sailed her down to StJohn, USVI, at some point decided to sail direct to Plymouth, UK and take part in the TWOSTAR and win his class with Jody, then sail back down to StJohn.

Keith, does Tim still have Transient?

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Loose, Did TRANSIENT ever make it back to St John after the TwoStar in 86? I thought Rich Wilson bought it for the OSTAR 88 and Phil Stegall did a re-rig to much larger wing mast. The Newick Raka 40 (ALIEN) got started down in Brazil not too long after. 

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I was fortunate enough to meet and spend several hours with Keith on Thursday along with my twin brother. By the time we left my mind was numb from absorbing so much information in such a short time. An overload for even a boat guy like me. Keith is nothing short of genius and has a photographic memory of dates, names and destinations. He’s been at it so long now that it has become history and his contribution to lightweight racing trimarans is near legendary.

Climbing aboard Skateaway is a pure pleasure. It’s like climbing aboard a new boat that is at the cutting edge of speed and performance. Those boats don’t seem to really exist at this point in time.  Every inch of the boat is thought out with regard to weight and strength. Keith believed in the strength of the materials he used and didn’t double and triple laminates to “build in”reassurance like so many home builders do. He built the boat to the performance specs of the foam, ‘glass and vinyl ester resin and the end result is a fantastically light weight 5,600+-100lbs hull combination and a 275lb carbon fiber autoclaved rotating mast that is phenomenal. The fit and finish of every aspect of the boat is top notch and his enthusiasm for the build today is intense.

There are no areas of delamination, not a crack in any surface and the Awlgrip paint looks like it was just finished and is still wet. The rolled  non skid is nice and even-not too much grit, but enough for good traction.  The cockpits are very deep and roomy with tiller steering. Keith is about 6’ and sitting with his hand on the tiller, he could see above the deck by a few inches and he said there are windshields for each side, so I think there is ample protection from spray and wind while underway in less than wonderful conditions.

Belowdecks is really cool. You climb into the main hull though doors inboard on the cockpits and step down and forward to a comfortable saloon with 6’+ headroom, a galley aft starboard and a settee forward. A wraparound settee port to the forward bulkhead and a slide down table around the mast support tube makes for enough room to lounge and eat out of the elements. Outboard of both settees are berths . 

Going forward through a low, 1” foam core mbulkhead opening with a several inch high transom you pass the incredibly light yet strong daggerboard case on your port side and on the other side of the case there is a bunk with storage outboard in the crossbeam. The reason for the high transom is to contain water in case it comes in a hatch or the companionways. There is a sail storage area and head forward of that. There are no floors in the bow and it is very strong to stand on. 

Rerurning to the main cockpit entrance and moving aft through another bulkhead with high transom you come to the aft cabin. There are 2 bunks and access to the rudder stock, bearings, etc. A 3rd bunk could be added athwart ships above the entrance..headroom is about 6’. 

  The sailing rig is rather ingenious and intuitive. He utilises a form of a slut traveler.(single line utility traveller) that eliminates much of the stress of upwind sheeting and traveller work. His main and max roach blade jib are reefable- the jib furls up from the bottom and is zipped into a new foot. 

The amas are Uber buoyant as is the 17’ daggerboard that provides a couple hundred lbs of positive flotation as it is lowered further. The elliptical rudder is also buoyant. 

Overall I was stunned at the level of finish and perfection of a home built boat and that the initial build criteria of being a minimalist, offshore capable racer/cruiser built light for speed was achieved in a better package than you can purchase anywhere. 

After touring Skateaway and hoisting the sails to let them” breathe” while he showed me the sail plan and running rigging, we hopped aboard Transient with Tim’s permission and took a look around. I can see why it’s such a winner. 

There is nothing more than spartan in that boat as well and more than you need to race long distances.

Tim’s modifying the rig and Keith is giving his advice so the result should be extraordinary. 

 

 

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Loose Cannon and Rasp:-   Tim is still nuts about Transient after 26 years!!! he bought her from Brian Thompson after the 1992 OSTAR in which she won her class and established the (still standing) single handed east-west crossing record in 18 days, 6 hours even. Brian and Tim sailed her Newport to Atlantic Highlands and Brian commented it was the worst trip he had ever sailed in her! Interestingly he also stated more recently that of his three favorite Transatlantic crossings the trip in Transient was one of them (after Rob James did the quickest Val 31 crossing ever he vowed he would never sail a small multi in such an event again!)

I thought Joe C sailed her back down to St John after the TWOSTAR, but I may be wrong, I met him and saw the boat at the 1995 symposium in Annapolis. When Tim bought her she was wearing a 46' Gougeon "B" section wing spar built for Rich Wilson by Walter Greene ("the strongest one I ever built") but at 430 pounds a little on the heavy side. She now sports a 51' carbon spar weighing around 260 pounds by Ted van Dusen of Composite Engineering. 

Nine years ago I finally convinced Tim to replace the "WW2 BF109" canopy over the companionway hatch with a more aerodynamic blister, widen the mid beam deck adding boxes for two wing berths, address the middle of the aft beam structure issue and add a separate, dedicated, radial main sheet beam with 20' of track. Tim weighed the (wooden) structure he cut out and the (composite) foam cored structure that replaced it. There was no weight gain but the interior volume tripled, the torsional rigidity significantly improved and the mainsail shape control and safety was night and day. That's also when the new mast and mainsail arrived. More recently Tim added a "Rapid Reef" headsail, enlarged the rudder and strengthened the rudder shaft. I am certain that in her current configuration that Brian would have made an even faster, more enjoyable crossing, (telephone booth on edge interior Rasp!)

Tim puts a lot of short handed offshore miles on Transient every year, she is fast, safe and reliable, a joy to sail.

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 10:22 AM, samc99us said:

Same problem on the East Coast. Basically narrows your ownership potential to folks that own waterfront homes/properties with wide enough slips/t-docks to handle a tri. The other shame is there aren't too many offshore races that would allow a 40' tri to compete; the RdR multi perhaps, Ft. Lauderdal-Key West and RORC 600 come to mind but that's about it for the East Coast (sort of). Still, really nice boat and I hope it finds a good owner!

Actually, at least in the Chesapeake Bay area your best bet is not necessarily waterfront but a water privileged community.  Save the cost of owning waterfront unless you want to have it, and the amenities can include community marinas with a dramatically reduced slip cost.  There are tradeoffs off course, but if you want it's worth looking into.  In our community there are two of us with tris in slips, I think more slips could be made to work if folks wanted.  

 

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kbcH20,

    That certainly makes sense, but one of the main reasons big tris and to a lesser extent big cats aren't more popular is they don't fit into your average slip as you are well aware. Without a folding scheme your options are more limited. Not in the same category as Skateaway but there was a F-33RXC on ebay last week. It went within 24 hours for the buy it now price of $160k.

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I don’t think there is anything near Skateaway in the quality and speed achieved. If I had $160k to buy a boat, I would take a loans for the rest and just buy Skateaway.

The F-33 is still on Ebay. That’s a lot of money to put out on a boat halfway around the world with no ability to have it surveyed with confidence. It does have nice sails, etc...

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3 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I don’t think there is anything near Skateaway in the quality and speed achieved. If I had $160k to buy a boat, I would take a loans for the rest and just buy Skateaway.

I won't argue that, as said different league. Still you are talking nearly double the boat investment for a higher quality, larger, far more offshore capable vessel buuut one that doesn't fold, which makes the potential market far more limiting. Don't get me wrong, its the perfect boat when sailing but everything else around it logistically is why we don't see more large tris IMO.

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I spent a cosiderable amount of time recently on numerous phone conversations and a half day visit to my waterfront docking haven discussing modifications to an F39 to enable marina docking. With advancing years the owner is reluctant to launch the boat,  which he has not sailed in two years, without some low speed manoeverability improvements.

The boat is currently equipped with a 27 hp Yanmar inboard and a bow thruster. The owner recalls the boat being faster before the current engine/thruster and a bank of batteries were installed. I suggested two (small) outboards on port and starboard lifting sleds. He favors additional electric motors on vertical, steerable, legs which I declined to get involved with as I have no experience with such drives.

So this big, folding but marginal trailing capability boat sits ashore because it’s too difficult to dock in one of the increasingly rare and expensive marinas convenient to his New York practice. The boat is heavy and slow. Even without ANY engine it’s a porker because of the complex folding arrangement and hull shapes designed to enable nesting when folded as much as their ability to provide all the flotation, stability and low resistance to foreword motion a successful trimaran demands.

The boat has no cruising payload capacity as it weighs closer to ten thousand pounds than it’s mythological design weight (the owner quizzed the designer on that one with no sensible answer) so are we to write off cruising in a 40’ trimaran (that’s a big boat man!) because it has to fold and fit in a marina - that’s insane.

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1 hour ago, boardhead said:

 

The boat has no cruising payload capacity as it weighs closer to ten thousand pounds than it’s mythological design weight (the owner quizzed the designer on that one with no sensible answer) 

Maybe he should have quizzed the builder?

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5 hours ago, Bruno said:

Up north, multis are happy on moorings, cheaper too.

True everywhere!

5 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

I could do one here on the Barnegat Bay as well.

So do it.

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I’m working on it as we speak thanks to you posting this thread. 

My wife is not as excited as me, however, she knows that I don’t chase false dreams. 

My big wooden cutter was going to be moored boat off of our club but I got the biggest slip there. I needed for it. 

The tri would be an easy moor. 

It’s going to happen

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4 hours ago, boardhead said:

I spent a cosiderable amount of time recently on numerous phone conversations and a half day visit to my waterfront docking haven discussing modifications to an F39 to enable marina docking. With advancing years the owner is reluctant to launch the boat,  which he has not sailed in two years, without some low speed manoeverability improvements.

The boat is currently equipped with a 27 hp Yanmar inboard and a bow thruster. The owner recalls the boat being faster before the current engine/thruster and a bank of batteries were installed. I suggested two (small) outboards on port and starboard lifting sleds. He favors additional electric motors on vertical, steerable, legs which I declined to get involved with as I have no experience with such drives.

So this big, folding but marginal trailing capability boat sits ashore because it’s too difficult to dock in one of the increasingly rare and expensive marinas convenient to his New York practice. The boat is heavy and slow. Even without ANY engine it’s a porker because of the complex folding arrangement and hull shapes designed to enable nesting when folded as much as their ability to provide all the flotation, stability and low resistance to foreword motion a successful trimaran demands.

The boat has no cruising payload capacity as it weighs closer to ten thousand pounds than it’s mythological design weight (the owner quizzed the designer on that one with no sensible answer) so are we to write off cruising in a 40’ trimaran (that’s a big boat man!) because it has to fold and fit in a marina - that’s insane.

A. Usually much easier to drive up to mooring in a big boat than dock it, given wind changes etc. Older people may need a embarking system.

B. Diesels are great but heavier. Ditto for inboards, but they do tend to stay immersed much better, saildrive or wells can deal with this.

C. Bow thrusters on high speed tris are kind of an inherent contradiction, usually add weight and drag right where they aren't needed just for brief maneuvering capacity. Given that a large tri is pretty sticky laterally, they mayn't even do that much. If it's electric ("large bank of batteries") then maybe the weight really hurts.

I like the idea of the twin outboards but the owner may be unfamiliar or reluctant to deal with that. A demonstration of how well it can work (if properly maintained) could be useful. Probably have to add some kind of winch driven lift systems for the sleds. Twin 15hp would be nice and he gets the safety of two motors. Just got to get them deep enough, not to mention the security of eliminating a couple of through hulls. Win Win.

From the Farrier F 39 webpage it looks pretty nice, be fun to cruise up north.

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teamvmg - did you ever see a 6,000 pound F39?

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I was lucky to own a multihull designed and built by an individual who has that same boat in the American Sailboat Hall of Fame.  It so sucked when he seemed to feel it appropriate to publicly and unfairly talk down the good efforts of others rather than focus on the amazing things he had done.  Or to back up a bus over a not so anonymous (potential) client(s) to benefit himself.  It  perhaps changed the way a lot of folks thought about him in an already small market/community.

Hey @teamvmg - I got a friend with an F36/39.  An amazing build. I get the impression he is VERY happy with his Ian Farrier designed boat and how it sails.

Hey @Sail4beer - Cool beans.  Hope you get Skateaway and enjoy her.  Would be great for her to remain Barnegat based.  Good luck to you and @boardhead.

 

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On 12/15/2018 at 10:37 PM, boardhead said:

Tim puts a lot of short handed offshore miles on Transient every year, she is fast, safe and reliable, a joy to sail.

That is great news.  Tim's passion is inspiring.

Please send my best - hope to see you all, and do it again.

Must say though - that Fighter plane canopy was pretty cool :)

 

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I think I forgot to hit the submit bar on a post the other day. I’m looking at another Burrage boat that has been mothballed in zombie mode for a long time. It’s another winner from the day and was modified by Keith for aft cabin headroom. It’s size and build limit the storage amount so it’s not a long range Cruiser/racer. Oh wait! There’s room under the cockpit where the diesel won’t be living since it will be tossed for a few small 4stroke outboards...

The wife and kids will like it because I’ll let them load a few kayaks and other water toys for summer fun and toss it all off for some serious racing.

If anything changes financially for me I’d jump on Skateaway fast! 

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

That is great news.  Tim's passion is inspiring.

Please send my best - hope to see you all, and do it again.

Must say though - that Fighter plane canopy was pretty cool :)

 

I originally didn't like the little 'pill box' doghouse on ALIEN at first either. I think that is what you are referring to as the 'fighter cockpit' canopy. That all changed after I had sailed about 7,000 miles in 7 weeks on the boat in the course of getting from St. John to Plymouth, England via the Azores and then a 4? day turnaround and the DoubleHanded TransAt back to Newport RI. I rigged an upright side tiller just inside the companionway via tiny Harken blocks so that one could steer from inside and that made the little box perfect to in with your head up much like in a ME 109 with perfect 360 degree visibility.

image.png.e2db6d49b6022f72156612a2febfca5d.png

  There was an nice little oval portlight in the Concordia style that let one keep the drop boards in the companionway (or a canvas drip cloth) and still provide enough fresh air that your breath didn't fog up the Lexan windows. You know the kind with the little wedges that you can reverse to close the pane up tight if needed. 

    We didn't use in inside steering much but after the long trip to Plymouth, I found that the little doghouse was not quite big enough for me to duck behind when taking serious water over the bow. Didn't seem to bother my mate the designer/builder/owner but he was a true Spartan in the first place. I had a sailmaker sew up a couple small triangular spray deflectors for either side of the back edge of the doghouse that didn't get in the way of the aft led halyards and reefing lines. They simply clipped in and had a shock cord loop to slip over the outboard cleats and made the cockpit much more habitable. I invested in new Henri Lloyd kit in Plymouth just before the race which was the best money I ever spent but the splash shields served well. I had sewn up a prototype on the Eastbound trip out of a scrap of sailcloth and my race partner hated the whole concept so the final ones I would keep in my jacket pockets and pull out at the start of a nasty watch and snap in place and then take them off three hours later when I went off watch so as not to offend the designer. Only took a couple days as we beat out of some truly horrific English Channel weather until he saw the light and sheepishly told me I could leave them in place...

     I didn't even recognise TRANSIENT in the photo of her at the dock behind SKATEAWAY with the new canopy. I'd love to see a better photo.

 

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Loose Cannon,  Will do and the Atlantic Highland Fling may well be resurrected this year as NEMA seeks an alternative to the not so popular Figawi. The RC has yet to decide but if it’s a yea the short handed offshore guy’s (four boats already) might be fighting over you!

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7 minutes ago, boardhead said:

Loose Cannon,  Will do and the Atlantic Highland Fling may well be resurrected this year as NEMA seeks an alternative to the not so popular Figawi. The RC has yet to decide but if it’s a yea the short handed offshore guy’s (four boats already) might be fighting over you!

Well, I have negotiated an offer on a f242, so maybe 5.  One way or another - that would be EPIC! particularly if we bookend it to the back of the Gotham regatta.  (We need more of this!) . Obviously, would rather do that race with one of these greyhounds than a 242 :)

- Lincoln

 

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Rasp - I think you would really appreciate the “new” Transient - faster, stronger and way more civilized inside and out, see the deck profile on the dock shot Sail4beer posted last week.

Had a similar experience with Skateaway. I ordered two folding spray deflectors, angled and glazed to throw the big stuff up over your head. They were late, as always with canvas guy’s but when the delivery/race crew arrived at the dock there they were - fitted and ready to go. Given the extra weight/windage we debated taking them off but it was May (cool) so it was decided to leave them on for our trip up to Newport for the start of the Bermuda race and consider their merit there.

So the wind filled in from the northeast (of course) and we had a wet, cold beat for a good piece of the trip - Oh Man - those spray shields were awesome - they stayed put for the Bermuda race and their contribution to keeping us drier and less fatigued probably made us faster.

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32 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I originally didn't like the little 'pill box' doghouse on ALIEN at first either. I think that is what you are referring to as the 'fighter cockpit' canopy. That all changed after I had sailed about 7,000 miles in 7 weeks on the boat in the course of getting from St. John to Plymouth, England via the Azores and then a 4? day turnaround and the DoubleHanded TransAt back to Newport RI. I rigged an upright side tiller just inside the companionway via tiny Harken blocks so that one could steer from inside and that made the little box perfect to in with your head up much like in a ME 109 with perfect 360 degree visibility.

image.png.e2db6d49b6022f72156612a2febfca5d.png

  There was an nice little oval portlight in the Concordia style that let one keep the drop boards in the companionway (or a canvas drip cloth) and still provide enough fresh air that your breath didn't fog up the Lexan windows. You know the kind with the little wedges that you can reverse to close the pane up tight if needed. 

    We didn't use in inside steering much but after the long trip to Plymouth, I found that the little doghouse was not quite big enough for me to duck behind when taking serious water over the bow. Didn't seem to bother my mate the designer/builder/owner but he was a true Spartan in the first place. I had a sailmaker sew up a couple small triangular spray deflectors for either side of the back edge of the doghouse that didn't get in the way of the aft led halyards and reefing lines. They simply clipped in and had a shock cord loop to slip over the outboard cleats and made the cockpit much more habitable. I invested in new Henri Lloyd kit in Plymouth just before the race which was the best money I ever spent but the splash shields served well. I had sewn up a prototype on the Eastbound trip out of a scrap of sailcloth and my race partner hated the whole concept so the final ones I would keep in my jacket pockets and pull out at the start of a nasty watch and snap in place and then take them off three hours later when I went off watch so as not to offend the designer. Only took a couple days as we beat out of some truly horrific English Channel weather until he saw the light and sheepishly told me I could leave them in place...

     I didn't even recognise TRANSIENT in the photo of her at the dock behind SKATEAWAY with the new canopy. I'd love to see a better photo.

 

I’ll see if I can find some time today to shoot on over and take a few for you. I don’t think Tim will mind. My brother took a few while I spoke with(listened to) Keith and I never had an opportunity to break out the iPhone. I was too busy absorbing info...

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

I think I forgot to hit the submit bar on a post the other day. I’m looking at another Burrage boat that has been mothballed in zombie mode for a long time. It’s another winner from the day and was modified by Keith for aft cabin headroom. It’s size and build limit the storage amount so it’s not a long range Cruiser/racer. Oh wait! There’s room under the cockpit where the diesel won’t be living since it will be tossed for a few small 4stroke outboards...

The wife and kids will like it because I’ll let them load a few kayaks and other water toys for summer fun and toss it all off for some serious racing.

If anything changes financially for me I’d jump on Skateaway fast! 

Focus Beer... or you will have a collection of multis and become the Stephen of the east coast.  Sell some of the other toys and get Skateaway if she is right.  Nothing else quite like her!  And if she ain't right then go get Stephen's R33.  That would be a fun toy for your area.  Come to the dark side...

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I was a bit busy today so I’ll go back down tomorrow. 

Here are a few my brother took last Thursday of Skateaway with Transient astern. I thought he would have taken a bunch of that boat but he said he didn’t want to bother Tim.

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     Thanks, those remind me how small TRANSIENT was (and still is)! In '88 when Rich Wilson finished the OSTAR we were there to congratulate Rich on his finish. I hadn't met him yet but when he looked at me (6'4") he turned to the ex-owner and and said 'You raced that same course that I just did with this big lug aboard? That is even crazier than doing it alone!'

    The reporters asked the two of them to sit on the ama for photos which they did and then someone told me to get in there on the other side of Rich and when I stepped onto the ama it went down and they both were sitting with their butts on deck and both feet comfortably on the dock. My 240 lbs pushed the hull so much further down in the cold dark water they both took their knees in the chests and almost went into the bay. That got a laugh from the crowd but Rich was not too amused... We stood for the subsequent photos.

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I was lucky enough to go for a sail on SKATEAWAY in October.  We were regularly sailing in the low 20knot range with a top speed of 24.something knots!  If I recall correctly, I think it was single reefed main and jib.  On top of that, Keith was pretty much sailing the boat single handed as I tried to stay out of his way and another guy took photos.  I still get a little tickle in my pants thinking about that day!

The boat is perfectly maintained and has a suprisingly comfortable and livable interior.  It’s certainly a special boat and I hope it ends up in the hands of a worthy new owner. 

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Let’s not exaggerate mrybas, it was 23 and change not 25 but if we had paid more attention to both sails trim ——-

The power cat was packing two 150 hp Yamaha’s so we were WAY greener than him!

Thanks for your footage.

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2,000 pound payload.

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Keith

Still more than super excited to drive up north this week and dust that multi off for a look at this summer’s project!

Rasper: Sorry I haven’t gotten down to Transient yet, work took over at my home. I’ll try soon!!

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There is a Carbon Rapido 40 coming that folds up and keeps the floats from getting fouled with a trick new system that stops crap growing on the sides ! All the best bits from every folding tri that has come before brought into the 21 st century with state of the art design !

Send me a email if you want to know more !

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1 hour ago, Paul Koch said:

There is a Carbon Rapido 40 coming that folds up and keeps the floats from getting fouled with a trick new system that stops crap growing on the sides ! All the best bits from every folding tri that has come before brought into the 21 st century with state of the art design !

Send me a email if you want to know more !

Cool. I assume at 40 feet it not folding to be legally trailerable in US without permits (not a big deal to get) but am curious??

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3 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

There is a Carbon Rapido 40 coming that folds up and keeps the floats from getting fouled with a trick new system that stops crap growing on the sides ! All the best bits from every folding tri that has come before brought into the 21 st century with state of the art design !

Send me a email if you want to know more !

You should start a thread on it, what happened to the 50ft Rapido?

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Paul,  stop teasing us & start a new thread.  You must have some drawings & a design brief behind the drawings ?

They WILL be looked at.....

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What’s the build weight of a folding tri before payload and how is the weight garaunteed before payload? Seems too many multis look good on paper and don’t make weight for the fight.

 

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           Another folding tri that will be relinquish performance in favor of docking/transport convenience. I guess avoiding marine growth on the ama  topsides is on the wish list and the remedy will be interesting to see, but irrelevant here. Carbon - gonna be REAL expensive - unless it's just a few bits of carbon.

           It is a teaser on this thread so best displayed on another, we are talking about a really fast, non marina based non folder here.

           The Rapido is a cool story, a different story for a different cliental. 

           40' Skateaway's polars are similar to 60' Rapido's and there is real footage on line to confirm that, big difference in the price and logistics, different cliental!

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There was a trimaran at our yacht club in an extra wide slip. He motored it out to the marina for haul out. Why he didn’t fold the boat when he was done sailing once a month back at a less expensive single slip I have no idea. I thought he would fold it and haul it out on a trailer at our boat ramp like it was designed to do for the money spent.

Seems like a folding trimaran was an unnecessary option for a person without the need or desire to utilize the design feature that was most intriguing.

The boat that held that slip at an earlier time was a nice looking F-27. He left it open all season and actually hauled it on its trailer each fall. I’m sure it would have been a pain to fold up every time after he and his family went out. It was the right size to maintain with regard to the parameters set for the need to fold for transportation.

Anything like a 40’ doesn’t need to be transported on a trailer or folded in a slip or for going through a canal in France or the American Great Loop cruise. For a $million + boat I would expect to have it delivered on its bottom to a port that could ship it on deck to a port for end delivery on its bottom. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

There was a trimaran at our yacht club in an extra wide slip. He motored it out to the marina for haul out. Why he didn’t fold the boat when he was done sailing once a month back at a less expensive single slip I have no idea. I thought he would fold it and haul it out on a trailer at our boat ramp like it was designed to do for the money spent.

Seems like a folding trimaran was an unnecessary option for a person without the need or desire to utilize the design feature that was most intriguing.

The boat that held that slip at an earlier time was a nice looking F-27. He left it open all season and actually hauled it on its trailer each fall. I’m sure it would have been a pain to fold up every time after he and his family went out. It was the right size to maintain with regard to the parameters set for the need to fold for transportation.

Anything like a 40’ doesn’t need to be transported on a trailer or folded in a slip or for going through a canal in France or the American Great Loop cruise. For a $million + boat I would expect to have it delivered on its bottom to a port that could ship it on deck to a port for end delivery on its bottom. 

 

Beer - AFAIK you haven't owned a tri, nevermind a folding one.  I have owned both folding (and not) multis.  Likely best to discuss off-line (PM me) if you are seriously interested but the folding tris really have many benefits.  I hope this comes across the right way...  I love Skateaway.  But there is a reason why Corsair has sold 100s (more than 1000 I think) of folding tris while fixed beam tris like Skateaway are much more rare (as are the buyers... ie harder to sell).  My F27 sold within days (had multiple folks interested).  As I bought new my wife and I went with folding again though I knew Skateway existed and was for sale.  Instead we bought a large folding tri that I am guessing will only fold 4-5 times over the next decade we own her.  But those will be REALLY important times to fold and will save us a metric crap ton of hassle and money at no real loss (relative to our needs).  None of this intended to take away from the great boat that Skateaway is. No intent to lecture but owning multis (folding and not) for a while opens one's eyes!

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Before I bought my F-27 I tried to buy a local one. When I told the owner I was going to need him to haul it out and drop the mast he balked at the cost. Apparently he had used an extra wide travel lift and had never folded the boat or dropped the mast. Crazy considering the design brief for an F-27.

I’m curious, how much weight does the folding mechanism add to an F-boat? There are few similar, non folding examples to compare to.

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I don't think it's the added weight of the folding mechanism but the compromises you need to make for the float design, so that it folds next to the main hull and stays under 2,50m. I think the v shaped floats make for a good all round design though. 

Paul 

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Both the weight and complexity or the folding system and the compromised shapes of the entire structure impact the perfection of the end product.

The F27 was a breakthrough design which changed the direction of multihull development, mostly for the good. The entire package of an affordable, folding, trailable, weekend accommodating, coastal capable, exciting performance multihull works at that size and with the materials available at the time.

Ian really hit the nail on the head and the increase in participation was wonderful - that’s why the design was deservedly included in the American Sailboat Hall of Fame.

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My multihull sailing experience started on a home built Yachting World beach Cat, laminated veneer construction, a design competition winner by J.R.McAlpine Downey who would go on to design nine Little Americas Cup winners, the last of which was the first to sport a big wing spar in a design collaboration with Austin Farrah. The little Yachting World was a blast but more importantly my exposure to the Best multihull designer, bui,der and sailmaker in the world at that time converted me into a hopeless multihull junkie - it’s been my life.

After checking out all the options at the 1966 Earls Court International Boat Show, at age 48, my Dad ordered an Iroquois. A super high performance, production cruiser/racer catamaran.

At age 15 in that boat I would experience (on her maiden voyage/delivery to Dartmouth) a ten knot, average speed leg at night from Brightlingsea to Dover including 17 knot bursts in a force seven, running under bare poles while surfing at over 20 knots (pegged VDO Sumlog speedo) in a sustained force ten, deploying a 5’ dia x 7’ long drogue which limited the surfs to single digits while splitting the beautiful, securely bolted mahogany cleats and living to tell the tale - my father was nuts but he sure gave me an education.

We raced that boat for a decade ( we had the tall rig off the 1966 RBR winner that year) almost flipped her (70 degrees) broke all the sails at least once, tore up the ruddes and stuffed her bows back to the windows a bunch of times - I learned a lot more.

Meanwhile I made several scale models and studied their sailing and capsizing characteristics.

After the Iroquois was sold and my girlfriend and I had rebuilt and cruised a 24’ monohull I bought a set of plans from Derek Kelsall (designer of the 1966 RBR elapsed time winner)  and we built our first (demountable) trimaran, a Tango 32 designed in 1976.

 

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New Years Resolution - I am gonna tell I t like it is!

This forum was started by a Skateaway admirer, not me, I am the current owner, the boat really is     FREAKIN AMAZING.

I am an old man that spent a good deal of my life sailing, reading and watching anything and everything to do with multihulls  and ended up designing, building and enjoying the culmination of that obsession.

Now I need to move on and if there is younger or even older blood out there wants to enjoy this kind of sailing the boat is available.

For those who don’t have the change I can sell you the design, hull forms and construction details and you can build a sister ship that will deliver - imagine that - all you gotta do is copy it.

Several  current forums are discussing other options, all valid with good input, on different approaches.

This one relates to fast, offshore capable cruiser racing trimarans. This boat works, ask me the reasons and I will tell you why but it is what it is so it you want to park your boat alongside your house or take it on a road trip, look elsewhere but if you want to take your family and friends for a mind blowing offshore adventure you are on the right page.

HAPPY  2019.

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