Kiwing

How many challengers will there be?

How many challengers?  

127 members have voted

  1. 1. How many challengers will race the Prada Cup?

    • 3 - that is no new challengers
    • 4 that is one new challengers
    • 5 that is two new challengers
    • 6 that is three new challengers
    • more than three new challengers


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11 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

We have the same concept in Scotland

SS, I always enjoy your commentary but this took me by surprise. I never would have guessed you lived in Scotland!

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

SS, I always enjoy your commentary but this took me by surprise. I never would have guessed you lived in Scotland!

Did I actually say that?

As the saying goes "You can take the Scot out of Scotland, but you cannot take Scotland out of the Scot" 

Good job you never guessed I lived in Scotland because you would have been wrong :-)

The 'nom de plume' is in fact, 100% accurate.

See ya on the water - most likely in China.

SS

PS -By the way, my daughter does exactly the same with her (black) Labrador on her paddleboard - neat!

 

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7 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

So, there were good and bad French for Scotland...
See, generalization is never good ;)

^^ See, we can agree sometimes ;)

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

Did I actually say that?

As the saying goes "You can take the Scot out of Scotland, but you cannot take Scotland out of the Scot" 

Good job you never guessed I lived in Scotland because you would have been wrong :-)

The 'nom de plume' is in fact, 100% accurate.

See ya on the water - most likely in China.

SS

PS -By the way, my daughter does exactly the same with her (black) Labrador on her paddleboard - neat!

 I assumed China originally but no reason to think you weren't widely travelled as well!

Yes, our little dog loves it on the board .... not so much when he falls in the water.

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Wow, big cuddles on the forum for a change...is it Xmas? :)

 

xmas_charlie_brown.jpg

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23 hours ago, barfy said:

Wow, big cuddles on the forum for a change...is it Xmas? :)

 

xmas_charlie_brown.jpg

Yes shocking isn’t it?

In the end we all post on here for one reason and that is our love of the AC.  One big dysfunctional family. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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42 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Yes shocking isn’t it?

In the end we all post on here for one reason and that is our love of the AC.  One big dysfunctional family. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Agreed WetHog, sailing and AC !!!

Cheers !

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4 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Interesting:

In a new Article published by Sail World NZ Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team Principal Patrizio Bertelli expects only 4 Teams to be in Auckland in 2021 (Defender + the 3 Superteams).

This is coming from the Team Principal of the CoR just sayin.

Wait, so who's the poodle now? 

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20 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

This isn't about poodles! Luna Rossa/Laurent Esquier/CoR is pretty much in charge organizing the America's Cup World Series & the PRADA CUP so they will likely know who is coming to Cagliari & Auckland and who isn't in advance before the July 1st Deadline to confirm Committment to the AC.

Oh its not about poodles now lol it was a few months ago. Dalton was Bertelli's poodle, Bertelli was Dalton's poodle. Bertelli was doing Daltons bidding, Dalton was doing Bertellis bidding, now that you've realised there never was any poodle, its not about that lol 

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6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I cannot wait until that July 1st 2019 Deadline arrives. There is no sneaking & toying around it by the Late Challengers now: It's either IN or OUT. 

Oh here we go... what about your "I expect them to withdraw by the end of the week" that was months ago...again, you're full of shit.

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3 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Shoebridge confirmed to McFadden that this Deadline is pretty much firm. Of Course the remaining Late Entries will hold it out as long as they can. They could have taken the easy route out like the Malta Team did and not let their Supporters sit on pins & needles hoping they make it.

The consensus is that S&S is IN and DutchSail is OUT. We'll see next Monday if that bears out. It's btw my opinion as well. Split Decision = 4 Challengers in Auckland but less Challengers than in Bermuda.

You've been saying this team is IN and this team is OUT for months now. first you said March 31st we'll know, then April 31st we'll know, then "I expect them to withdraw at the end of the week" And none of was true. And now you're saying this is what will happen... just STFU.

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10 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I was saying this because there wasn't a Firm Deadline. Now there is.

Maybe just shut up until it happens then instead of trying to convince gullible idiots like TC to agree with you.

 

8 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

And finally my dear snarky friend @Forourselves: A Team which hasn't paid the necessary bills & bonds shouldn't be allowed to compete.

Like was stated by Shoebridge multiple times, payments aren't time critical. The only reason you bring that up is to confirm your assumption. You don't need to know timelines or payment deadlines because you're not a challenger or a defender. You don't write the protocol, so you don't have a say because you don't matter.

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On the bright side in a year we may know how many Challengers there are. Or we may still be fussing.

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6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Wrong! This has never happened in the History of the AC certainly not during AC 30, 31, 32, 34 and 35. Either you paid your Entry Bills by a certain Deadline or your done. Do we have any Rules or don't we? What ETNZ/LR did here with this Agreement is very much spite on the other 2 Teams who did what they needed to do.

And I don't need to convince T-C as he can come to same conclusion by himself. That's why he is agreeing so much with me.

Oh, don't you get it!! deadlines are part of the protocol which can be amended at any time as CoR and Defender see fit. They are not time critical!! The deadline can be extended if agreed to by mutual consent - how many times do you have to be told!?

Spite is what SailGp is based on.

TC agrees with you because he doesn't want to feel lonely and all alone lol

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Nah, we can be fussing if they are "real" Challengers until Prada Cup. ;)

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

This July Deadline won't be amended you little snark. How often do I need to tell you!

keep up! What I was talking about was all of your previous comments about deadlines that never came true, however much you screamed the house down, they never came true. Why? because the protocol meant those deadlines could be amended at any time. The only reason the July 1st deadline came about was because Malta withdrew. Keep up next time.

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Just face it @dg_sailingfan. You have no credibility. You have no substance, none of your comments are based on anything factual. They're just crybaby"Boohoo ETNZ won and I hate AC36, and I hate Grant Dalton and Kevin Shoebridge, and I hate ETNZ because they didn't choose the AC50 again" thats all it is time and time again.

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45 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

No, we know that by July 1st 2019.

Yep, but y'all will drag it on for a year,

 

  ... or more.

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39 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You are the worst Poster of all time here. Everyone can see by now that the Team from the Netherlands can't make because of the Boat Build Timeframe (9 months). And you can't just put the Boat into water and race. These Monster Boats require different Skill Sets. They need a miracle from Santa to make it. Maybe Santa will built their Boat.

We Won!!

800.jpeg

c7fe8e5cec1008365a33a4025d177e0e.jpg?v=1

@dg_sailingfan for your viewing pleasure

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The Netherlands team is likely now in the "dear god" zone.

 

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So, just so I know how much gin I need.....

dg/A4e as the world renowned expert on all things AC related, famed worldwide for your intimate knowledge of the workings of all the teams that we only need to read your posts to be fully up to speed. With July the first a mere 13 hours and 8 minutes away..what are your predictions?

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20 minutes ago, Woolfy said:

So, just so I know how much gin I need....

 

the-big-bottle-of-gin.jpg

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Thanks Forourselves, that's great news finally. 

I have been secretly thinking that a great club like the LBYC, with so many wealthy members, should bloody well step up and underwrite the S&S challenge. It looks like they just did that, and kudos for them!

Oh, BTW, could you and others possibly ignore the forum psychopath, please!

Or if you can't resist please don't quote him, many here will be grateful for that.

Good luck to Team Stars and Stripes, and hopefully they will give the three top teams a run for their money!

 

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^Um , is your life so sad that one poster giving the link that confirms S&S's participation and another (not definately a kiwi) describing this as great news is deemed "going ballistic". 

I'm very pleased to hear S&S are still in, the more that come to Akl the better, but despite my love of gin I don't feel I need to rejoice, I'm just very pleased...

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@Forourselves @Fiji Bitter yup certainly is good news... and great to see an acknowledgement of ETNZ being welcoming and accomodating - no doubt the design package fee is a sweetener ;-)

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Look who that Poster is: @Forourselves, the biggest Clown Kiwi Poster ever on this Board. I absolutely loath this guy.

That’s pretty funny considering that you two are the biggest pair of idiots on this forum!  There’s a reason you two top the ignore list. 

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21 minutes ago, Monkey said:

That’s pretty funny considering that you two are the biggest pair of idiots on this forum!  There’s a reason you two top the ignore list. 

Apologies, but I really can’t help poking shit at A4E after his little temper tantrum in the last Volvo threads and his new login. Which he’s still denying, it’s just too funny, I wonder if he can keep this going for the duration of the Cup without snapping and doing the same again? 

His new hardon for Ben and Ineos is really entertaining  

 

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It's a bummer the Dutch wont be there. 

It would've added a little something to the competition.  (Other than a big bag of weed)

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Technically there are 4 Challengers now but past history suggests just 3 Challengers is a strong possibility.

WetHog  :ph34r: 

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49 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Technically there are 4 Challengers now but past history suggests just 3 Challengers is a strong possibility.

WetHog  :ph34r: 

But now I'm starting to feel better about my vote (4) in the poll that started this thread :) 

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3 hours ago, 2Newts said:

But now I'm starting to feel better about my vote (4) in the poll that started this thread :) 

Indeed.  4 Challengers is better than 3, and a 2nd US team would be sweet, but past history suggests AC teams that appear to be struggling financially have a way of pulling out before racing starts.  I'll feel a lot more optimistic when S&S splash, and sail, their AC75.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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3 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Indeed.  4 Challengers is better than 3, and a 2nd US team would be sweet, but past history suggests AC teams that appear to be struggling financially have a way of pulling out before racing starts.  I'll feel a lot more optimistic when S&S splash, and sail, their AC75.

WetHog  :ph34r:

"AC teams that appear to be struggling financially have a way of pulling out before racing starts" Or they end up winning the Cup, one of the two.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

"AC teams that appear to be struggling financially have a way of pulling out before racing starts" Or they end up winning the Cup, one of the two.

Sure but we both know which is more likely.  Nice try though.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 minute ago, WetHog said:

Sure but we both know which is more likely.  Nice try though.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Thats what they said last time. 

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14 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

LOL, no one really knows how advanced/how far completed the AC75 of S&S is. Could be a ploy by them to attract more Sponsors and Money. I am just buying that its half way completed unless they show some Pictures from their Boatyard.

Their build has been halted for some time now. 

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8 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Their build has been halted for some time now. 

Well, it lasted a couple of days anyway before someone quoted him.

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33 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Thats what they said last time. 

Let me clarify.  I am talking about 1st time Challengers with financial question marks.  Does that help?  Or do you really think S&S is the next ETNZ?  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Let me clarify.  I am talking about 1st time Challengers with financial question marks.  Does that help?  Or do you really think S&S is the next ETNZ?  

WetHog  :ph34r:

I think it would be hard to conjure about some game-changing magic when you are deriving it from ETNZ's design package. But we could be proved wrong - they might invent some wonder-foils!? :-)

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Let me clarify.  I am talking about 1st time Challengers with financial question marks.  Does that help?  Or do you really think S&S is the next ETNZ?  

WetHog  :ph34r:

I don't think we've ever had any teams apart from ETNZ who were widely known as being "cash strapped" except for possibly, the French last time. Do I think S&S will win the Cup? No, purely because if they make the Cup match they will have to contend with a 2nd generation design, an evolution of their own design which SHOULD be a step from the first. But if the ETNZ refinements as part of the design package are as good or better than what the other challengers have come up with, S&S may well blow the Challenger Series wide open. Do I hope that happens? Hell yes! It would be fantastic if the Underdog of this AC threw the cat amongst the pigeons.

The unknown is the exciting part of the next AC. A new class, new concept, new technology, coupled with AC brands that have huge history, like ETNZ, like Stars n Stripes, like Luna Rossa, as well as new teams like INEOS and AM, whats not to like?

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I don't think we've ever had any teams apart from ETNZ who were widely known as being "cash strapped" except for possibly, the French last time. Do I think S&S will win the Cup? No, purely because if they make the Cup match they will have to contend with a 2nd generation design, an evolution of their own design which SHOULD be a step from the first. But if the ETNZ refinements as part of the design package are as good or better than what the other challengers have come up with, S&S may well blow the Challenger Series wide open. Do I hope that happens? Hell yes! It would be fantastic if the Underdog of this AC threw the cat amongst the pigeons.

The unknown is the exciting part of the next AC. A new class, new concept, new technology, coupled with AC brands that have huge history, like ETNZ, like Stars n Stripes, like Luna Rossa, as well as new teams like INEOS and AM, whats not to like?

Dennis-the-menace Connor was the original "cash-strapped" AC team...

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

It would be fantastic if the Underdog of this AC threw the cat amongst the pigeons.

I think you mean is the cat among the pigeons. Otherwise they're just spectators. Or pigeons. ;-)

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Just now, RobG said:

I think you mean is the cat among the pigeons. Otherwise t :rolleyes:hey're just spectators. ;-)

They did that in Bermuda already - this time, they're sailing monos:)

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Haha dg is feeling a little lonely. Everyone's iggy'd him so he's taken his little crybaby posts over to the Americas Cup Facebook page lol

 

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^^ sclarke is posting too. But when I see these ado gifs posted by the official Facebook "America's cup" and "Team New Zealand" it reminds me of... a poster here. Paid poster for official and non official propaganda ? :) 

tenor.gif

safe_image.gif

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Since you've attempted to engage in "witty banter" I feel compelled to post a photo I recently found which sums you up to a Tee.

7MZYBRWHFFBVPF2UFOLIJUPQN4.jpg

And I even found a documentary they made of you and your A4E buddy:)

v1.bTsxMTIwNDEyMztqOzE4MTc0OzEyMDA7MTUzN

 

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53 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^ I obviously did not mean you, unless you post under different names.

Ah but you did. Most people tend to use their real names on FB, avatar names on SA, hence the name Tornado Cat. Unless your mother didn't like you or something and named you Tornado.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ah but you did. Most people tend to use their real names on FB, avatar names on SA, hence the name Tornado Cat. Unless your mother didn't like you or something and named you Tornado.

Yes for sclarke, same prose also, but the gifs poster is another one, seemingly posting here. The official TNZ paid speaker ? ah ah.

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^^ If I was a paid staffer, I would have no desire, no need and no time to post on SA, but I'm flattered you think ETNZ would think I would be an asset to the team:) But I finally figured it out. Your obsession with paid staffers stems from the fact that you yourself were a paid OTUSA staffer in Bermuda. I realize going around Bermuda removing NZ flags on the way into the Dockyards before each Cup race day must've been a tough job, especially covertly as you did. I also realize how deflated you must have been when you realized it was a futile task. So we get it, thanks to GD you were forced to stand in the unemployment line, but look on the bright side....We won! lol

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16 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I think it would be hard to conjure about some game-changing magic when you are deriving it from ETNZ's design package. But we could be proved wrong - they might invent some wonder-foils!? :-)

Why not?  The hull of an AC75 isn't designed to touch the water while racing (thats why I find celebrating the return of mono's to the AC a joke but thats a different discussion) and the foil arms and rig, for the most part, are one design.  So I don't see using the ETNZ design package as a negative for the most part.  The team that wins this AC will have the best foil design and the best crew work, right?  I am sure cockpit/boat controls will be a significant factor as well but whats keeping S&S from taking the ETNZ design package and then coming up with their own cockpit layout/sailing controls that fit their team? 

It just seems to me if there was an AC cycle where purchasing a design package could be a positive this would be it.  Then again I am far from an expert on AC boat design.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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16 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I don't think we've ever had any teams apart from ETNZ who were widely known as being "cash strapped" except for possibly, the French last time. Do I think S&S will win the Cup? No, purely because if they make the Cup match they will have to contend with a 2nd generation design, an evolution of their own design which SHOULD be a step from the first. But if the ETNZ refinements as part of the design package are as good or better than what the other challengers have come up with, S&S may well blow the Challenger Series wide open. Do I hope that happens? Hell yes! It would be fantastic if the Underdog of this AC threw the cat amongst the pigeons.

The unknown is the exciting part of the next AC. A new class, new concept, new technology, coupled with AC brands that have huge history, like ETNZ, like Stars n Stripes, like Luna Rossa, as well as new teams like INEOS and AM, whats not to like?

Victory Challenge, Mascalzone, Shosholoza, Areva, +39 and United Internet Team Germany were all considered "cash strapped" teams for AC32 and thats just one Cup cycle.  Using these examples its interesting to speculate which S&S will turn out to be.  Shosholoza, which punched above its weight, or +39 which struggled mightily based on their financial issues despite a lot of talent on the crew.  I hope for the former but the latter is a real possibility.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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WTF is with people wanting to be vigilantes for Zuck? FB is bad enough on its own without help.

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Victory Challenge, Mascalzone, Shosholoza, Areva, +39 and United Internet Team Germany were all considered "cash strapped" teams for AC32 and thats just one Cup cycle.  Using these examples its interesting to speculate which S&S will turn out to be.  Shosholoza, which punched above its weight, or +39 which struggled mightily based on their financial issues despite a lot of talent on the crew.  I hope for the former but the latter is a real possibility.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

I'll give you that one, but Mascalzone were NEVER cash strapped. Onorato just didn't get his way with Ellison when he signed up as CoR after AC33.

Still, Stars n Stripes do have an ETNZ design package...so it will be interesting to see how they go.

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Wonder if S+S got some new management with prior (nice if winning) AC experience.  They need to know what to do with the $, not just how to sail the boat.

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^^ LAUGH OUT LOUD

Here he goes, dg back tracking already, after months and months and months of "I wish everything bad for AC36" and "The boat is crap" and "Shoebridge, Dalton, Ainslie and Tienpont are all liars" and "Boycott AC36" now he's saying "I don't hate AC36 as suggested by certain people and I want to make it clear"

Too late buddy! You made your bed, now you have to lie in it. There's no coming back from it now lol 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I'll give you that one, but Mascalzone were NEVER cash strapped. Onorato just didn't get his way with Ellison when he signed up as CoR after AC33.

 

 

 

Onorato was fine during 32, but he lost nearly everything when the IPO for his company failed amidst all sorts of legal issues right after he challenged. 

Of course "Nearly everything" for a guy like that means he still had supercars, yachts, and that house on the beach next to the YCCS, but definitely not AC money.

 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

I'll give you that one, but Mascalzone were NEVER cash strapped. Onorato just didn't get his way with Ellison when he signed up as CoR after AC33.

Still, Stars n Stripes do have an ETNZ design package...so it will be interesting to see how they go.

Fair enough.  Mascalzone weren't cash strapped they were just not a good team.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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I'll always remember one of Mascalzone's guys telling me the moment he realised they were screwed was when the team had more chefs than boatbuilders!

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So how does being a "paid staffer" work? 

Is it that regular employees are forced to invent personas and post here?

Or is posting a gig-economy job in its own right? 

I don't see anything on taskrabbit or craigslist. Where do I find out who's hiring and how to apply?

LOL heavy sarcasm font

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@WetHog,

I'm still wondering based on what he (Forourselves) claimes S&S might be better than the other 3 Challengers because they purchased a Design Package from ETNZ. History tells us they won't cuz they will have a Generation 1 Boat and the other 3 Teams will have a Generation 2 Boat and GEN 2 is always better than GEN 1 IMO no matter what modifications S&S might make.

Well that all depends on how fast those generation 2 boats are. I'm willing to bet ETNZ's test boat would've beat LRBAR and Team Frances race boats in Bermuda

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OK, so now DutchSail has withdrawn and S&S has "confirmed."

Questions:

  • What happens bad to S&S if they still no-show? What is the penalty?
  • What is the "or else" if they don't pay the late fee according to the current payment schedule?
  • What is the penalty if they don't pay the second part entry fee ($1 megabuck) before the Cagliari ACWS?
  • What is the penalty if they don't pay the $1 megabuck performance bond or put up a bank guaranty?

Answers:  no penalty, no fine, no money lost other than the $1 megabuck first entry fee instalment, which of course was non-refundable (sunk cost).

Question to @Fourourselves :  care to place a wager on how many challengers will be in Auckland in 2021?  My bet:  3

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16 hours ago, Woolfy said:

I'll always remember one of Mascalzone's guys telling me the moment he realised they were screwed was when the team had more chefs than boatbuilders!

Their boats looked cool though. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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12 hours ago, YvesKlein said:

care to place a wager on how many challengers will be in Auckland in 2021?  My bet:  3

Sort of the point of this whole thread. You can still vote in the poll at the top. 

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AC34 had three challengers. 

AC35 had three challengers (when you consider that three of the challengers were just there for show).

AC36? Wouldn't be surprised if it was three.

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As rubbish as the ol’ America’s Cup 64’s were and as apparently unpopular but graceful and successful as the AACC 80’s were, and like the success of even Olympic classes despite having some absolute rubbish designs, (470, Star, Finn, RSX, to name a few) I think popularity in the class comes from keeping some continuity. 

Countries could get previous generation boats and learn to sail them and build from there. 

 

However, 

In “quick” succession we’ve gone from one cycle of the amazing but only 2 giant 90’/110’ multis with just a best of 3 race series being a whitewash (why was the Alinghi cat so conservative or maybe the wind was just too light?) to the amazing brutal foiling 72’s with an fortuitous and lucky close final with a  best of 129 races final or what ever it was with the ridiculous 2 race penalty for one team, to the sharp and refined 50’s that had a heap of boats for the final on a remote island in the middle of the ocean, to these weird bizarre and no doubt extremely fast foiling gizmos with hopefully 3 teams. 

I think the smart money wound have been to stick with the 50’s for a few cycles and build some momentum. 

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6 hours ago, LionIsland said:

and build some momentum. 

Already got 160 years of momentum.

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On 7/5/2019 at 5:40 PM, barfy said:

Already got 160 years of momentum.

I'm with you @barfy , just need 1 challenger and a big step forward for sailing.

Too many regattas already and who needs a boat that needs a crane and 15 helpers just to launch it every time you want to go for a sail?

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25 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

I'm with you @barfy , just need 1 challenger and a big step forward for sailing.

Too many regattas already and who needs a boat that needs a crane and 15 helpers just to launch it every time you want to go for a sail?

But this is not we are getting. Not just the race but more regattas spread around the world with design packages up for sale to try and increase the number of challengers. So rather the opposite of what you claim to want. The first 150 odd years are being converted into just more regattas and a money generator. The wierd ass boats a lame attempt to attract the red bull audience.

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3 hours ago, Gissie said:

But this is not we are getting. Not just the race but more regattas spread around the world with design packages up for sale to try and increase the number of challengers. So rather the opposite of what you claim to want. The first 150 odd years are being converted into just more regattas and a money generator. The wierd ass boats a lame attempt to attract the red bull audience.

Ya, I'm not really down with the AC world tour.lot of to do about nothing, just keep it simple in Defender water.

The weird as boat is cool though,a chance to follow through on a design that has some serious potential. Or flaws. But I'm confident in etnz design acumen, and the test boats are making me happy.

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Would be ironic if the LE/RC " Framework Agreement" doomed 50 meter cats in the AC. Of course, dooming them freed up some boats to be reworked for the circus...they redid 4 oldies IIRC. What if OTUSA had won, woulda been a bummer for LE/RC, huh?  

Agree that the IACC stable class helped the numbers. 

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Well ever since IACC class, each sailed AC boat has headed for the museum, trash heap or recycling. DoG/CatZillas,  AC72, AC50... Larry and Ernesto started a new tradition, it would seem. Pick sumpin' weird and hope nobody better shows up. Rinse, repeat. The AC75 if it follows will be following in the footsteps of giants. ;)

Yeah, they were gonna make it "affordable" with the boat. I wonder what % of total costs to defend are the boat build itself?  % of total costs to challenge and race LV/Prada?

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No way. Just let it go as it goes. All that is needed is 2 parties....defender and a challenger. That round the world endless regatta party thing is not required.  If sailors need jobs and luxury goods need buyers maybe a perpetual AC cycle is not the bestvway. Maybe AC is not the best waterfront development mechanism, either 

 

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

That's why I said after AC36 some Negotiator needs to put all Parties to a Table and speak some common sense.

Nope. CoR and Defender choose the boat. If anyone else wants to get their way, its simple...WIN.

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Need,

Bottom Line is this:

The AC75 Foiling Mono Class will be ready for the Museum just like the AC72's were. No one is gonna dare interested to sail these Boats beyond AC36 cuz they're "Too Complex, Too Extreme".

Except I do love Them and if They succeed I'll say I said So!

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 

So, I'd say the best Days of the AC are long gone unless all competing Teams for AC36 and all interested Parties for AC37 sit down at a table together and create a Boat Class that's going to last for a few Cup Cycles similarly when the IACC were created in the run up AC28.

 

I'd say leave the teams and sailors out and have a council of the cutting edge designers come up with a boat for sustainability.

the concept of affordability at this level is sort of silly and relative but construction cost should be considered. Throw away is not an option.

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

........
Agree that the IACC stable class helped the numbers. 

But ruined the AC.  DC's winged cat was a predictor of an amazing future thank goodness someone broke out of that numbers game!

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By which criteria "ruined"? Just curious.  

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There are many regattas - the best are one design IMHO.

AC is not a regatta - LV/PRADA CUP were/are regattas for defenders.

AC is about design - risk and innovation, were the design of boats, sails, winches etc get over-the-top money thrown at them and sailing benefits.  This is AC for me.

The history is fantastic, the stories are fantastic, the characters are fantastic but this is not what overly interests me

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

There are many regattas - the best are one design IMHO.

AC is not a regatta -

But it is now just another regatta. They have hip pocket challengers arranged to ensure the next race is sorted, they have a world series as part of the build up. They are trying to get continuity with sponsors and fans. So it is just another regatta, no matter how you spin it. The only thing they haven't been able achieve so far is to find a way to make it an annual regatta. The world series charade is the closest they have got so far.

While they are working on the annual part they need to keep the non sailing fans semi engaged. So they pick some weird spaceship crazy thing and pretend it is a monohull.

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I understand those who pine for older boats. I loved and still love the 12 meters Many of the contenders are still racing! I loved the IACC from the start of the idea. No YouTube back then, by the way! A smattering of the IACCs are still sailing the tourist circuit. I loved the DoG fight. I loved the 72's, (and the original 45s) which I saw in person. Though I was horrified by the fatal Artemis crash. I loved the 50s. No tourists on any of the winged cats! But They turned out to be kind of a dud. I am very excited to see the 75.

I love to hear about the schooner that started it all. I love to hear and see drawings and old pictures of the J-Class boats. The original J Class boats are not around, but some big shots have revived the class. Those yachts look spectacular in the photos. I love the older boats with clouds of sail. I think of Lipton's challenges every time I see a Lipton Tea product.