Meat Wad

Brexit, WTF

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32 minutes ago, jgh66 said:

Backstop is the alternative solution

jgh don't feel bad but you have just repeated one of the biggest bits of Brexiteer bullshit going.

The "Backstop" is an "insurance policy" (continuation of Common Market) that only kicks in at the end of the Transition Period" in 2022 if the Irish Border "Alternative Arrangements" are not in place.

Then you might ask the question; if Boris says, "Alternative Arrangements" are ready to go now, how in the fuck can he be worried about the "Backstop" ever kicking in??

Answer that conundrum and you will be a millionaire? Actually no, Boris is committed to frustrating a Deal and so outcome is No Deal otherwise the ERG and Farage will take his nuts. This whole thing is a game and a mirage to keep Boris breathing air into the Tory right wing balloon. Fuck the country.

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WARNING

This picture is a fake ...the Fosbury Flop was invented an American, Dick Fosbury and seen for the first time at the 1968 Olympics where he got Gold.

It wasn't invented by some self entitled Latin speaking twat from Somerset in the 18th century. 

EDkt8U_XsAI6Gkf.jpeg

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Speaking of the Minister for the 18th Century and every person who blindly repeats his bullshit about democracy, Parliament having to represent the will of  17.4 million people, Remainer constitutional anarchy etc blah blah, makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

By reading and convention and referendums included (unless binding) the people's view starts and stops on Election Day.  This is different in other jurisdictions outside the UK.

From the time of that vote, Parliament (not the Government) are then the people and it is their responsibility to decipher and decide what is in the best interests of the people. 

This week if you put party politics aside, only 21 Tory members appear to have understood that Constitutional concept and so they drew a line in the sand. Their reward? Boris sacked them. Why? I have Roman replacement foot soldiers willing to fight for me, the great Gaius Octavius Thurinus, Emperor Augustus or Gaius Julius Caesar what ever of my three names turns you on.

Boris wants to make an election being an illusion of "People versus the Parliament" and so in essence blow up the Constitution and all its conventions. This is so he can fullfil his childhood dream of being king of the world and the Tory right wing get their way using Brexit as their vehicle. If it wasn't Brexit it would be something else. These fuckers dont care.

The only people in the Tory party standing between them succeeding or not so far have been just 22. 

Seems even Gaius Octavius Thurinus's brother understands that concept.

I wonder how long it is going to take for more of them to wake the fuck up to their responsibilities as MP's??? 

 

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/06/brexit-boris-johnson-news-latest-eu-labour-confirms-it-will-not-vote-on-monday-night-for-early-election-live-newsbior?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Brexit: Bill intended to block no deal to become law after being passed by House of Lords – live news

 and his week just gets worse. 

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21 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Speaking of the Minister for the 18th Century and every person who blindly repeats his bullshit about democracy, Parliament having to represent the will of  17.4 million people, Remainer constitutional anarchy etc blah blah, makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

By reading and convention and referendums included (unless binding) the people's view starts and stops on Election Day.  This is different in other jurisdictions outside the UK.

Until the government sends every household a letter supporting its case with the following words.

A once in a generation decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.The Government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU. This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.If you’re aged 18 or over by 23rd June and are entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

The minute they said "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide" in writing, they passed over the decision to the people. The current crop of imbeciles then further acknowledged that passing over the result to the people by first agreeing article 50 and then putting in their party manifests for the 2017 election, that they would honor that result.

It can't be clearer than that or does that not compute in your virtual world.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

 

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14 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Until the government sends every household a letter supporting its case with the following words.

Letter means jack shit (it wasn't a binding referendum)..have a look at the Constitution and centuries of convention in your newly adopted country you turnip with strawman responses.

BTW didn't see any mention of crashing out with No Deal in that letter.

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so your house of old farts have also passed the bill, but what this furriner does not understand is that in the media there is still the notion that if Lizzie signs it off, Boris can still just ignore it ... how's that for democraZy ? anyone to shed a light on this, is this possible and if yes, why ? Boris can think of himself as some new Octavius, but if he were to just ignore what was passed as law, it would be more like democracy saying "et tu, Brute"

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Letter means jack shit..have a look at the Constitution and convention in your adopted country you turnip with strawman responses.

I'm afraid here in England at least ( I'm not sure of the other countries ) a first class letter sent to your address is enough to have you arrested and jailed or fined for breaking the law whether you receive that letter in your hand or as the PO admits that some 12M letters each year are lost destroyed or delivered to the wrong address. The government could not turn around and say that letters were no longer legal just because they lost a referendum that they thought was in the bag, as it would have say every speeding offense rescinded in a flash.

11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

BTW didn't see any mention of crashing out with No Deal in that letter.

One could equally argue that it didn't specifically not include no deal and by intimation therefore all forms of leaving the EU must be treated with equal weight.

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8 minutes ago, Albatros said:

so your house of old farts have also passed the bill,

Albatross I thought like you that to be the case. I watched slabs of it and I was floored.

Sure there was some old loopy ones (the Baroness who intimated staying in the EU equated to the UK being the next Poland in 1939 was an eye opener) but overall the level and nature of debate (outside the filibusters trying to slow it down to crash it)  put the lower house to shame.

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4 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

I'm afraid here in England at least ( I'm not sure of the other countries ) a first class letter sent to your address is enough to have you arrested and jailed or fined for breaking the law whether you receive that letter in your hand or as the PO admits that some 12M letters each year are lost destroyed or delivered to the wrong address. The government could not turn around and say that letters were no longer legal just because they lost a referendum that they thought was in the bag, as it would have say every speeding offense rescinded in a flash.

Mate beer is just not for breakfast.

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Albatross I thought like you that to be the case. I watched slabs of it and I was floored.

Sure there was some old loopy ones (the Baroness who intimated staying in the EU equated to the UK being Poland in 1939 was an eye opener) but overall the level and nature of debate put the lower house to shame.

then I must have only seen the old loopy ones .... but probably I started to watch too late, other priorities like the Vuelta and such, grin, but can Boris just ignore this ? (not the loopy bit of course, he's way ahead at that)

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mate beer is just not for breakfast.

What ever you are drinking Jack, I want none of it, as all it does is turn you into one angry angry loner.

Now my local ale, that's gold medal stuff, wins all sorts of awards and whilst quaffing said nector last night, it was quite an interesting discussion on just how incompetent our ruling elite are and in particular the civil service advisors and heads took a real beating from both Brexiteers and Remainers. The trouble is they are in the driving seat and have totally forgotten that they are employed by us.

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5 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

What ever you are drinking Jack, I want none of it, as all it does is turn you into one angry angry loner.

Against my better extincts and nudges from many here Wayne I have engaged with you. Wayne have you noticed simply many don't bother anymore. Why is that so??

Any further engagement is up to you. Keep going in the same vein you have lost another one who can be bothered.

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18 minutes ago, Albatros said:

then I must have only seen the old loopy ones .... but probably I started to watch too late, other priorities like the Vuelta and such, grin, but can Boris just ignore this ? (not the loopy bit of course, he's way ahead at that)

They don't appear to have rigid rules in the upper house so it is all sort of collegiate like, even with the clock burning down. I didn't hear one raised voice or interjection. There were some young smart ones who are there by invitation or inheritance? Some had pretty amazing careers, a lot of ex EU MP's who understood how Brussels works etc.

Was an interesting eyeopener for me coming from the often maligned unelected.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

jgh don't feel bad but you have just repeated one of the biggest bits of Brexiteer bullshit going.

The "Backstop" is an "insurance policy" (continuation of Common Market) that only kicks in at the end of the Transition Period" in 2022 if the Irish Border "Alternative Arrangements" are not in place.

Then you might ask the question; if Boris says, "Alternative Arrangements" are ready to go now, how in the fuck can he be worried about the "Backstop" ever kicking in??

Answer that conundrum and you will be a millionaire? Actually no, Boris is committed to frustrating a Deal and so outcome is No Deal otherwise the ERG and Farage will take his nuts. This whole thing is a game and a mirage to keep Boris breathing air into the Tory right wing balloon. Fuck the country.

The word “back stop” only appears once in the entire May agreement.

99.99% of the people that are so violently opposed to the backstop don’t know what it is and that it virtually does not exist. Read the agreement yourself.  Scan it and search for the word “backstop”

What the agreement does contain is a series of very reasonable options for NI where the outcome depends on the trade agreements that the U.K. finalizes with the EU. The word back stop is used in one place to describe what happens if the U.K. and EU have not finalized their trade negotiations by 2 years after the U.K. has left the EU. What happens is basically nothing.....because it would be dumb to have something happen to NI before we know what is happening to the rest of the U.K.

So “alternative arrangements “ could be substituted in that paragraph without changing the meaning or the effect of the agreement. 

Is anyone (other than Knees Bogg) seriously proposing that NI leave the EU before the rest of the U.K.? 

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50 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Against my better extincts and nudges from many here Wayne I have engaged with you. Wayne have you noticed simply many don't bother anymore. Why is that so??

Any further engagement is up to you. Keep going in the same vein you have lost another one who can be bothered.

But Jack you are the Haw Haw Jack of Sailing Anarchy, your 20 postings minimum a day are full of vitriol and bias against anything to do with Leave and must take all of 20 hours of your day, every day. That can only mean you are indeed a loner sitting in your virtual computer world, in your tax haven, with your daddy's companies expense account on tap, which contrary to your persona in your postings, means you know ferk all about the real world at grass root level ie a great many of those who felt their part in the EU was not beneficial in the manner they had thought it would and decided as you have now done, to cut and run, by voting Leave.

Sadly for the UK we have a whole plethora of people of your ilk who really cannot comprehend why people voted leave and will fight leaving the EU all the way to destruction of everything they stand for, such is there limited understanding of anything outside of their metropolitan media based bubble and the lack of understanding of just how much damage they are inflicting upon the very people they depend on to work in their business's and domestic lives.

We will see how it all pans out, but one thing for sure, we won't be sorry to see the back end of the likes of you Jack.

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Boris mate next week is not getting any better for prosecuting your No Deal ..fuck the Irish Border strategy with this speedbump in terms of public opinion.

This just popped up. The Troubles: Army chief's Top Secret 1972 Memo called for NI 'escape'

The former chief of staff, later Lord Carver, wrote (in 1972): "If I am right, and we want a lasting solution, it must lie in finding a way in which HM Government can gradually escape from the commitment to the border."

He suggested a "plebiscite", or poll, organised "in such a way that it shows up the inequity of the existing border".

The British Government then in 1972 ignored their Army Chief of Staff and instigated both Direct Rule and Operation Motorman, the longest deployment of British troops in history to last for a quarter of a century until the Good Friday Agreement in 1998.

Putting aside that 46 year old obcenity, Boris to prosecute his No Deal exit of the EU intends repeating the exact same fucking mistake.

First imposing Direct Rule and reintroducing  inequity to the existing border that the Army's Chief of Staff said must be removed.

The next step Boris? Deploy troops and call it Operation Motormouth?

You really can't make this shit up.

Note. I don't know but maybe reason stuff like this is surfacing now is an embargo on literally millions of Troubles related documents sitting in the RoI/Dublin have just come to an end. Similiar files sitting in London still remain sealed.

 

_108632155_carvermemo2.jpg

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30 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

The word “back stop” only appears once in the entire May agreement...

You were warned. Fuck off.

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I favor the Mountbatten solution!

Divide the country in half. Make Birmingham the capital of Olde England. The 17.4 million who want to leave the EU occupy Olde England. The rest can move to the United Kingdom of SWWU (Scotland Wales Wessex and Ulster) with a dual capital in London and Edinburgh and stay in the EU. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

But Jack you are the Haw Haw Jack of Sailing Anarchy, your 20 postings minimum a day are full of vitriol and..

Fuck off twice..you are now on ignore. You contribute zip.

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2 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

I favor the Mountbatten solution!

Get blown up and have your deck shoes scoot across the Irish Sea at 200 mph?

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14 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

I favor the Mountbatten solution!

On a more serious note if you mean India/The Two Pakistan's that wasn't of Mountbatten's making and he was directed and pissed off. Atlee Labour Govt who kicked Churchill to the kerb in 1945 after he had won the war. That was weird. Today much weirder stuff.

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I can only gather from this that regardless if you are man or beast in Nth Ireland, providing you are British, Boris won't slaughter you.

He really doesn't get it.

 

 

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I think Johnson has to respect the Good Friday Agreement if he wants post Brexit trade negotiations with the US and Canada to go well. Pelosi has already made this clear. 

https://consent.yahoo.com/collectConsent?sessionId=2_cc-session_ed8b9a64-91cc-4f7a-9bd6-9d1ea7a474e2&lang=en-gb&inline=false 

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^^^ Yes as Democrats control any FTA. Also US Irish lobby are not wallflowers. The Prov IRA didn't win Lotto to be able to buy arms.

But from Donald's monkey this.

"We urge the EU to negotiate in good faith with PM Johnston..." WTF.

Hey Mikey surely that must be a mouthful smoking both Donald's and Boris's dick at the same time???

 

 

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So funny; the referendum was promised by the government to be binding.
You have been fooled by your government, there is no law in the UK to provide that.
Otherwise it would have ended up in court and was the word remain forbidden.

Cherry picking is in style again, he just repeats May.
The latest plans brought to the EU.
Johnson’s envoy, David Frost, proposed an all-Ireland food standards zone on Friday, but the UK is also seeking to give the Stormont assembly a say on whether it would continue in the years ahead.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/boris-johnsons-irish-border-plan-stalls-disastrous-eu-brexit-backstop-talks

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Poor Boris, now the way to election is blocked before Brexit date, his only escape is a deal with the EU.

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This makes my blood boil.

From the HOC Brexit Select Committee Hearing yesterday grilling Gove.

If you had any doubt Gove is a slippery lying cunt watch this.

For instance from around 12.14 to 12.21 he basically says if there are queues at Dover/Calais in a 'No Deal' it will be because of business's failure to ensure their paperwork is in order and only God knows the true impact.

This is treason on an industrial scale. They know a No Deal is catastrophic but it is not their fault.

https://t.co/p57zEY1MIE?amp=1

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There is park in Brussels near EU HQ with ostriches who buries their heads. They should paint UK flags on them.

Gove admitted papers released of impact of No Deal were up to date, but said because it was based on years work, it was right to call it old.
Really historians will have difficulty to describe the foolishness of this Brexit...

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12 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Sadly for the UK we have a whole plethora of people of your ilk who really cannot comprehend why people voted leave and will fight leaving the EU all the way to destruction of everything they stand for, such is there limited understanding of anything outside of their metropolitan media based bubble and the lack of understanding of just how much damage they are inflicting upon the very people they depend on to work in their business's and domestic lives.

We have a whole plethora of people outside of UK who really cannot comprehend why people voted leave. They got lied and promised things that they can't get, but do people still believe in those lies after they have been debunked? Why do people still want to leave when they have been told what it entails?

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1 hour ago, Upp3 said:

We have a whole plethora of people outside of UK who really cannot comprehend why people voted leave. They got lied and promised things that they can't get, but do people still believe in those lies after they have been debunked? Why do people still want to leave when they have been told what it entails?

Because there are two sides to the story which only if you were living in the UK over the last 20 -30 years would you be really able to take a real life educated appraisal of.

Many many of the so called lies had elements of truth within them, unfortunately the media, much of the ruling elite and twats like Jack take only the porkies and fail to outline the full story.

What will be, will be and life will move on regardless of the outcome, for every loser in this debacle, there will be a winner, business’s will quickly adapt once the ground rules are set and on the day of the U.K. leaving the EU, whenever that will be and it will happen despite what ever the present final rattles of an incompetent ruling elite bring, life will tick along pretty much as before despite the project fear of these pages. 

 

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3 hours ago, Upp3 said:

We have a whole plethora of people outside of UK who really cannot comprehend why people voted leave. They got lied and promised things that they can't get, but do people still believe in those lies after they have been debunked? 

Mostly yes. Not helped by the fact that they were told the economy would fall off the cliff after exit and so far it hasn't. The fact that we haven't left yet eludes them.

Some just don't care about the economy, they just want to recover some mythical national autonomy that existed 50 years ago but for a medium-sized country doesn't exist today, inside the EU or outside of it.

Some consider the country swamped by EU immigrants. There have been a lot in some areas, it is true. Good for business which would otherwise be short of staff in many areas, not so great if your wages have been depressed by the influx, which has undoubtedly happened in some low and medium-skills areas .

Some think exit will allow British businesses and jobs to be protected. The reality that those in charge of Brexit want exactly the opposite - a globally open economy - doesn't seem to have sunk in.

And so on.

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Problem is too that old lies are replaced by new lies, half truths, publication bans, childish media use etc.
Both old big  political sides, Lab and Con are enemies.
Both Lab and Con had a group of MP's that you would describe as centrist. Both are purged.
And for many LibDem does not feel good. Or TBP. But they have the clearest message, out and in.

Lab choice of deal is still unknown, but probably not as hard as a NO Deal. And with a ref on it.
Con are trying to get as much as they can, No Deal for a few weeks till this was blocked. But if they win an election in extra extension time it will be No Deal again under BJ/ERG.

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and next is "Boris the martyr" , according to one of his supporters, Iain Duncan Smith, he should indeed ignore this latest law, and thus get himself convicted and become a martyr, all for the good cause ... cue some funny cartoons, an analogy with Jeanne d'Arc might work.

 

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From Clarkson, a remainer with a dislike of Corbyn.

I understand why Remainers are doing everything in their power to delay our departure from the EU for as long as possible. And I understand why this is making Brexiteers so furious.

Me? I’ve reached the point where I’m past caring. I just want something to happen and so long as Corbyn is kept out of No 10 Downing Street, I don’t really care what.

Sadly, the only way forward is to crawl across the Channel on our hands and knees and literally beg for a deadline extension to next February. Or June. Or the year 3086.

And then what? Europe will either offer us the same deal that’s already been rejected by Parliament three times or they will offer us something worse.

We are — and there’s no other word for it — f***ed.

Right up to the moment when there is a General Election Corbyn will win.

And then we will come to know what being f***ed really means.

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6 hours ago, Upp3 said:

We have a whole plethora of people outside of UK who really cannot comprehend why people voted leave. They got lied and promised things that they can't get, but do people still believe in those lies after they have been debunked? Why do people still want to leave when they have been told what it entails?

Brexit is not a rational decision supported by people acting in their self interest. It is a religious conviction. If you believe in the virgin birth no education in biology will change that. If you believe in walking on water no introduction to physics will change that. If you believe in the night journey or splitting of the moon no dialogue with astronomers will change that. If you believe you are a Thetan seeking The Bridge to Total Freedom then you are Tom Cruise seeking a career resurrection and a new wife.

If you believe in Brexit then rational discussion of the lies you’ve accepted and the doom you seek to impose on future generations of England will do nothing to dissuade you.

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:


Both Lab and Con had a group of MP's that you would describe as centrist. Both are purged.

Labour has not purged centrist MPs. A few left of their own accord.

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1 hour ago, KC375 said:

 If you believe in the virgin birth no education in biology will change that.

diversion alert

our foremost professor in religious jurisdiction at our foremost university, advisor to the local archbishops and such has recently devoted a whole article to debunk this virginity thing, according to him Mary well and truly got fucked with child as the original verbiage is not about virginity but about being born without sins, and that then refers to the Adam & Eve theme who originally were born without sins but they fucked it up and hence all human beings are born with some inherited sins. Not that he said it with such words, far too erudite for that, but in a cunning way he said that Mary could have been the town's most active whore, it does not matter, she was born without this heritage of sins, that's what the "born immaculate" refers to"

/diversion alert, back to our regular program : you can't make this shit up B)

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Or alternatively, humanity's desire to believe exceeds humanity's ability to reason.

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Quote

Boris Johnson could go to jail if he refuses to delay Brexit, says former prosecutions chief

Former attorney general Dominic Grieve echoes the warning, accusing the PM of acting like a "spoilt child having a tantrum".

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-could-go-to-jail-if-he-refuses-to-delay-brexit-says-former-prosecutions-chief-11804290

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Is this one of those choose your own ending books or movies? What’s your preferred denouement for the tousled blond haired protagonist?

a)       Dead in a ditch; or

b)      Imprisoned in the tower.

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7 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Is this one of those choose your own ending books or movies? What’s your preferred denouement for the tousled blond haired protagonist?

a)       Dead in a ditch; or

b)      Imprisoned in the tower.

Either will do. 

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Boris has been cornered by Corbyn, he's like a bull locked in a pen with 3m high walls.

At this point we can't expect him to be rational...

Has he ever been cornered like this? How did he react?

Considering the size of his ego, I think that he will try to do something grandiloquent to avoid loosing face, and eventually hide somewhere.

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19 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Is this one of those choose your own ending books or movies? What’s your preferred denouement for the tousled blond haired protagonist?

a)       Dead in a ditch; or

b)      Imprisoned in the tower.

c}       Convicted, let off with a stern "now now you little scallywag, don't try this again", and on next elections he wins bigtime as " Boris the martyr" . Jeanne d'Arc, move over.

grin

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21 minutes ago, Albatros said:

grin

The script with three endings is aimed at a wider audience, more commercially viable. Ironic given the lack of commercial accument in the additional audience members.

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24 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Boris has been cornered by Corbyn, he's like a bull locked in a pen with 3m high walls.

At this point we can't expect him to be rational...

Has he ever been cornered like this? How did he react?

Considering the size of his ego, I think that he will try to do something grandiloquent to avoid loosing face, and eventually hide somewhere.

I think Michael Gove pulling the carpet out from under his leadership campaign was an equivalent boxing in. He reacted like any spinless politician - smiles allaround, and waited for his next opportunity.

GettyImages-542742360-1160x756.jpg

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3 hours ago, Albatros said:

and next is "Boris the martyr" , according to one of his supporters, Iain Duncan Smith, he should indeed ignore this latest law, and thus get himself convicted and become a martyr, all for the good cause ...

You may mock and it shows you have little understanding of the English, but 85% of all Englanders will back a Robin Hood character all day long, they love and will back the little guy getting a kicking by the establishment, particularly if he is being seen as representing the people and putting it to them.

If the sheriff puts out a warrant for Boris and he goes missing in Sherwood Forest for say 14 days and cannot go to Brussels then not only will he have the 52% backing him but the other 33% as well. The longer this scenario goes on of Boris taking a beating, for all his faults as crazy as it may seem to you guys, it can only be win win for Boris.

 

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18 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

You may mock and it shows you have little understanding of the English, but 85% of all Englanders will back a Robin Hood character all day long, they love and will back the little guy getting a kicking by the establishment, particularly if he is being seen as representing the people and putting it to them.

If the sheriff puts out a warrant for Boris and he goes missing in Sherwood Forest for say 14 days and cannot go to Brussels then not only will he have the 52% backing him but the other 33% as well. The longer this scenario goes on of Boris taking a beating, for all his faults as crazy as it may seem to you guys, it can only be win win for Boris.

 

funni

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4 hours ago, LeoV said:

Both Lab and Con had a group of MP's that you would describe as centrist. Both are purged.

Well looks as though Boris is taking "purging" to the next step.

If his Eurosceptic Spartans step out of line and don't back his Deal (which is probably May's Deal with a new sticker) they will also be speared.

That doesn't leave a lot left to fight an election with though? Maybe he is going draft some Greeks?

ED2xqU-WwAARf6h.jpeg

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Johnson has managed to master subtraction but I don't think that is what is meant by "the first rule of politics is learning how to count"

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42 minutes ago, Albatros said:

funni

I don’t think Wayne really understands the English reading that. 

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

You may mock and it shows you have little understanding of the English, but 85% of all Englanders will back a Robin Hood character all day long, they love and will back the little guy getting a kicking by the establishment

Possibly so, however BoJo is as establishment as they come. 

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Possibly so, however BoJo is as establishment as they come. 

Agree but England's rank and file have incredibly short memories when they see someone taking a kicking and will side with anyone they see as the underdogs, ask yourself how many times you have backed the underdog when there's a real lopsided match on the box, that's almost unique to England, anywhere else in the world they are all baying for the blood of the vanquished much like Jack is at the moment.

What a film it would make if Boris is locked up for refusing to honor the recent bill and by consequence can't make it to Brussels on the 31st to ask for an extension. Sort of would make a fitting finale, no one could have thought it up, or could this be Dom's plans all along. :rolleyes:

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Johnson has MPs who disagree with him and expect him to obey the law. It's not as if he's being roughed up in a dark alley.     

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6 minutes ago, spankoka said:

Johnson has MPs who disagree with him and expect him to obey the law. It's not as if he's being roughed up in a dark alley.     

Agree he is a big boy and should be able to look after himself, but he is taking an absolute kicking in the media, almost to the point of it being noticeably OTT. Its very obvious the media is putting the knife in as they do and my guess it won't be long if not already that the public will follow true to form and start to back him as someone taking an over the top kicking. Certainly even the young guy who works for me commented as such and he's about as interested in politics as asking about why there's tits on a bull. Again on Thursday night, out with a bunch of elder lads and Boris was mentioned in dispatches with "Ooooh he's taking a right one for the team"

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Rudd gone, will stand as independent conservative.

Amber Rudd quits the cabinet telling Sunday Times that Johnson’s purge is “political vandalism” and “an assault on decency and democracy”

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

You may mock and it shows you have little understanding of the English, but 85% of all Englanders will back a Robin Hood character all day long, they love and will back the little guy getting a kicking by the establishment, particularly if he is being seen as representing the people and putting it to them.

If the sheriff puts out a warrant for Boris and he goes missing in Sherwood Forest for say 14 days and cannot go to Brussels then not only will he have the 52% backing him but the other 33% as well. The longer this scenario goes on of Boris taking a beating, for all his faults as crazy as it may seem to you guys, it can only be win win for Boris.

 

That's bollocks, Wayne.  I started typing a response, then thought "what's the point".

 I value your posts and perspective. Helps to understand the mess we're in from the perspective of the fuckwits that voted for it but it would be helpful if you dropped the trolling and baiting. It's entertaining no-one, AFAICT.

Cheers,

               W.

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Did not work for May either. And Farage is taking the underdog votes.

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3 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

 I value your posts and perspective.

Glad you do but one thing for sure, I have absolutely no sympathy for the Scots who are about to go bust such is their overly large bar bill and will have to rely on the English to bail them out when the debt collector comes a calling.

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51 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Rudd gone, will stand as independent conservative.

Amber Rudd quits the cabinet telling Sunday Times that Johnson’s purge is “political vandalism” and “an assault on decency and democracy”

Umm on a majority of only 346 and one of the more outspoken Remainers, she openly admits that she is having to look at other than her existing constituency for a job, talk about cutting and running whilst she can cause as much trouble as she can.

Would she be elected as an independent, not a chance.

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What if the EU now says, we don't give you an extension. You already voted on no "no deal" You had three options, now only two are left: remain or Mays deal. You managed to vote on "no deal" within days, you can take a decision between the two leftover possibilities within days. No need to wait another 3 month. 

Anything wrong with that idea? 

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27 minutes ago, jgh66 said:

What if the EU now says, we don't give you an extension. You already voted on no "no deal" You had three options, now only two are left: remain or Mays deal. You managed to vote on "no deal" within days, you can take a decision between the two leftover possibilities within days. No need to wait another 3 month. 

Anything wrong with that idea? 

If the EU is all ready with their planning for whatever happens next, then why not. I certainly cannot see why the EU would want to give BJ any win and should insist that the May deal is the only deal available to the UK.

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10 hours ago, KC375 said:

Is this one of those choose your own ending books or movies? What’s your preferred denouement for the tousled blond haired protagonist?

a)       Dead in a ditch; or

b)      Imprisoned in the tower.

4837.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=forma

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2 hours ago, jgh66 said:

What if the EU now says, we don't give you an extension. . No need to wait another 3 month. ....

Anything wrong with that idea? 

 

1 hour ago, jgh66 said:

The french already said that they would propably not extend.... 

The No Deal Bill/Act crowd consulted with the EU including the French when formulating their 31 January extension date and the pro forma of of extension letter now attached to the Act.  They haven't left much to chance.

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7 hours ago, jgh66 said:

What if the EU now says, we don't give you an extension. You already voted on no "no deal" You had three options, now only two are left: remain or Mays deal. You managed to vote on "no deal" within days, you can take a decision between the two leftover possibilities within days. No need to wait another 3 month. 

Anything wrong with that idea? 

Yes; if the EU present an ultimatum, the populists will hype it up as the UK being dictated to by the EU and the backlash will be counterproductive. If they can continue to be patient until the tantrums stop, there's a chance that more of the UK electorate will see the EU in a better light.  Given the current shenanigans in Westminster, it isn't hard to appear relatively reasonable.

Cheers,

                W.

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10 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Glad you do but one thing for sure, I have absolutely no sympathy for the Scots who are about to go bust such is their overly large bar bill and will have to rely on the English to bail them out when the debt collector comes a calling.

Finances are not the problem with Scottish Independence. 

Look deeper, if you care.  Lessons from Brexit apply but the impact of Brexit would change the parameters significantly. 

Cheers,

               W.

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23 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

Finances are not the problem with Scottish Independence. 

Look deeper, if you care.  Lessons from Brexit apply but the impact of Brexit would change the parameters significantly. 

Cheers,

               W.

If given the chance, an independent Scotland would be probably fast tracked back into the EU 

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Yes, might be. On the other side the some economists in germany say that even "no deal" would be better than the current situation for EU companies. Tusk has said the last time the UK should use the last extension wisely, Macron has said clearly he is against further extensions. Who knows what happens after GE in UK. Could as well be "no deal". Why take that risk? 

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The only reason for the EU to agree to an extension would be a material change to the situation in the UK.

A general election might provide sufficient excuse for a delay, although the chances of such an election leading to a coherent stance from the UK both in government and the HoC remain slim.

So some in the EU might thus argue that further delay serves no purpose...

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23 minutes ago, hoppy said:

If given the chance, an independent Scotland would be probably fast tracked back into the EU 

Not a chance, they are a basket case financially even more so than some of the old Eastern Bloc countries, would the EU really want to take up that debt ?.

The only thing in their favour is they hate the Sassenachs even more than the French.

 

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58 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

The only reason for the EU to agree to an extension would be a material change to the situation in the UK.

A general election might provide sufficient excuse for a delay, although the chances of such an election leading to a coherent stance from the UK both in government and the HoC remain slim.

So some in the EU might thus argue that further delay serves no purpose...

Situation after a GE could be worse than now from an EU perspective. Maybe only a second referendum could make Macron to agree on an extension. 

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EU can not say no to a request for short delay. To much happening in the UK and outcome could be from remain to Efta to No Deal later. Election and even 2 ref could be back. And then there is the GFA.

BJ Deal team is trying to talk to countries instead of the EU commission (watched the A Marr show, Javid said it).
A strategy that failed with May.

Really you should rewatch the A Marr show, Javid made some remarks that will not convince the EU to trust them an inch.
As did Raab on Sky.

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The pro-Brexit, anti-independence argument is that the Scots are not so stupid as to volunteer for a poorer future. I’m not so sure that is the case. As rabbit Brexiteers themselves prove.

For the EU in geopolitical thinking, if England goes exit in an all out scenario, it will be very handy to have Scotland and NI in EU influence sphere.

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EU leaders already told BJ that he has to negotiate with Barnier, they will not discuss anything directly. 

 

Than this:

Emmanuel Macron will be strongly tempted to veto another delay to Brexit because of the “deteriorating situation” in the UK, a former top French diplomat is warning.

The French president – who has already threatened not to grant an Article 50 extension – will regard the crisis enveloping Boris Johnson as even “more disturbing” than the preceding events, Pierre Sellal said.

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Why wouldn't the Queen simply refuse to assent to the bill(s) that were passed recently, and thus force an exit ? 

IF Johnson advises her that he has tried to call elections, and that the government was not rejected by a confidence vote, that the bills were defiance, then she has the authority and perhaps obligation to use her "veto" 

Parliament has screwed around for a long time, trying to negate the will of the people. This might be the appropriate time for the sovereign to exercise executive authority and expunge a legislative mistake, 

 

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1 minute ago, LionessRacing said:

Why wouldn't the Queen simply refuse to assent to the bill(s) that were passed recently, and thus force an exit ? 

Parliament has screwed around for a long time, trying to negate the will of the people. This might be the appropriate time for the sovereign to exercise executive authority and expunge a legislative mistake, 

 

She’s a puppet figurehead with no powers, that’s why. 

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37 minutes ago, mad said:

She’s a puppet figurehead with no powers, that’s why. 

Well that depends on whether she chooses to passively assent, or to step up and serve her people, not the whinging clowns that want to negate the referendum. 

 

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5 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Well that depends on whether she chooses to passively assent, or to step up and serve her people, not the whinging clowns that want to negate the referendum. 

 

I suggest you do some research on the subject. 

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