Meat Wad

Brexit, WTF

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16 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

I have, I looked for a copy of your constitution, but you blokes never bothered to write it down, so I have to rely on WIki... 

Reserve Powers

"To delay a bill's assent through the use of his or her reserve powers in near-revolutionary situations, thereby vetoing the bill[22] 

Now you could argue that if the Parliament refuses to vote no confidence, and is preventing elections, as a means of changing the government, it's near-revolutionary.

 

Today the royal prerogative is available in the conduct of the government of the United Kingdom, including foreign affairs, defence, and national security. The monarchy has a significant constitutional presence in these and other matters, but limited power, because the exercise of the prerogative is in the hands of the prime minister and other ministers or other government officials.

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Just because the power has not been asserted in 300 years, it is not abnegated.

Not saying that Betsy Windsor will step up in her wrath and expunge the pestilence from Westminster, but she could.

What else is left in the spectacle of self immolation of a once proud nation ? 

Having Macron and Merkel race to veto an extension? 

 

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13 minutes ago, Upp3 said:

Exactly and if a government regards a bill to be of such critical importance that it is prepared to advise the head of state to refuse assent to it, then the government’s defeat indicated by the passage of that bill could amount to be a loss of confidence in the government.

The remedy then rests with the Government if they feel of that view. The Government simply resigns and then it is up to someone to come up with a majority that does enjoy that confidence, if not then an election.

What are the chances of Boris doing that after seeing what happened last week??.

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Exactly and if a government regards a bill to be of such critical importance that it is prepared to advise the head of state to refuse assent to it, then the government’s defeat indicated by the passage of that bill could amount to be a loss of confidence in the government.

And that's the conundrum, the refusal to vote no confidence, and refusal to hold elections to resolve the failure of the government. Seems the MP's have been wallowing in the morass and hamstringing the PM's for a while now. 

Time for a simple decisive action. 

Queen can refuse to block elections, and let the people vote sooner, and the likely outcome will be throwing the quibblers out. 

The time for negotiating a deal is over;

with the blockage of a "no Deal" option, Commons and Lords have undercut the government, and left the only honorable exit as crashing out.

 

Nicely done, they played themselves. 

 

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I think the arguments as to why a Monarch would not withhold royal assent are:

1.       It would be in contravention of established practice of more than 300 years;

2.       Because of 1. It would put the Royal family business in serious jeopardy. That family is in the business of being a figurehead not an active decision maker. Republicans are active in the UK but not a strong force at the moment, however why would the Royal Family take the risk.

3.       As the article Upp3 mentioned – any law passed against the will of the government that was so important as to warrant advising the monarch against giving assent would effectively demonstrate the government and lost the support of the house.

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3 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

And that's the conundrum, the refusal to vote no confidence, and refusal to hold elections to resolve the failure of the government. Seems the MP's have been wallowing in the morass and hamstringing the PM's for a while now. 

Time for a simple decisive action. 

Queen can refuse to block elections, and let the people vote sooner, and the likely outcome will be throwing the quibblers out. 

The time for negotiating a deal is over;

with the blockage of a "no Deal" option, Commons and Lords have undercut the government, and left the only honorable exit as crashing out.

 

Nicely done, they played themselves. 

 

The Royal family are on thin enough ice as it is, no way will they ever run the risk of interfering in government. The public will happily turn on them in heartbeat and rightfully so. 

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Just now, KC375 said:

I think the arguments as to why a Monarch would not withhold royal assent are:

1.       It would be in contravention of established practice of more than 300 years;

2.       Because of 1. It would put the Royal family business in serious jeopardy. That family is in the business of being a figurehead not an active decision maker. Republicans are active in the UK but not a strong force at the moment, however why would the Royal Family take the risk.

3.       As the article Jack mentioned – any law passed against the will of the government that was so important as to warrant advising the monarch against giving assent would effectively demonstrate the government and lost the support of the house.

#3 is self explanatory the HOC wants to have power and not be voted out, and is sitting there like a three year old refusing to use the potty, in a mess of their own making 

#2 the Royal family is either a figurehead used for cutting ribbons and handing out awards, or there's actually some value in a final authority, who's the spiritual and titular head of state, protecting the people from the ravages of the government. The powers of Mercy reside in the sovereign, not her ministers. 

#1 is just silly. If you guys don't expunge it, it's still there. That the sovereigns of the past have rarely found reason to object to parliament is not a reason they can not now. 

 

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The Royal family are on thin enough ice as it is, no way will they ever run the risk of interfering in government. The public will happily turn on them in heartbeat and rightfully so. 

 

A woman who saw her Uncle abdicate, and who's been on the throne as long as she has been is not likely afraid of much, other than her own idiot son. Perhaps it's time to put it all on a roll of the dice. 

She has nothing to lose. 

 

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17 hours ago, LeoV said:

Did not work for May either. And Farage is taking the underdog votes.

 

17 hours ago, LeoV said:

Rudd gone, will stand as independent conservative.

Two things to note:

1. There is a very long history that "single issue" General Elections fail to overturn the incumbent. In this case more so as it is People V Parliament election coming from both sides, but each with a different slant, the Labour opposition here have a marxist manifesto that would make Karl blush and are well behind in the polls.

This is exactly why Boris is desperate for an election and notwithstanding the appalling beginning and resultant bad press he still feels comfortable.

Having said that Corbyn for his all his faults is actually a very good election campaigner as shown to date, so shouldn't be underestimated. If he and the those who supported the No Deal Bill got organised (which Boris underestimated their ability to do that) and campaigned accordingly Boris would be in big trouble. Another reason why Boris wants to accelerate it so they don't get a chance to do so.

2. The purging and resignations like Rudd's many think will do little harm to Boris as they won't get up as Independants unless they have an extraordinary personal following. What is missed is even if not successful, they are going to split the conservative vote. This could be a 3 corner contest in some seats between that Independant (if not gone to a minor party), Brext Party and the Torys. 

How many seats can Boris really afford to have going down that path? 

 

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3 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

A woman who saw her Uncle abdicate, and who's been on the throne as long as she has been is not likely afraid of much, other than her own idiot son. Perhaps it's time to put it all on a roll of the dice. 

She has nothing to lose. 

 

Which idiot son? she has more than one. 

She’s more likely to be considering the future of the younger Royals, rather than her direct offspring. 

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

Which idiot son? she has more than one. 

Whichever one(s) are likely to inherit. 

Charles is the pre-eminent concern, I have not paid attention to the succession if he implodes. 

The history of British Royals named Charles is not encouraging.

 

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1 minute ago, LionessRacing said:

Whichever one(s) are likely to inherit. 

Charles is the pre-eminent concern, I have not paid attention to the succession if he implodes. 

The history of British Royals named Charles is not encouraging.

 

This is a pointless discussion as it’s never going to happen. 

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

This is a pointless discussion as it’s never going to happen. 

That's particularly ironic in a 100+ page thread about something that's "never going to happen"

Either the UK crawls back to the EU hat in hand and loses what ever vestigial sovereignty and dignity is has, or it crashes out and makes a go of it. 

Time for all of the whinging is long past, the inability to make decisions has lead to a binary outcome. 

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2 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

That's particularly ironic in a 100+ page thread about something that's "never going to happen"

Either the UK crawls back to the EU hat in hand and loses what ever vestigial sovereignty and dignity is has, or it crashes out and makes a go of it. 

Time for all of the whinging is long past, the inability to make decisions has lead to a binary outcome. 

Either way, the Queen will have absolutely fuck all involvement in it. 

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Either way, the Queen will have absolutely fuck all involvement in it. 

Quite possibly, I would not place a wager either way. The number of people who support Corbyn is truly depressing. 

I'm landing in Manchester in 6 days, and then on to the Cairngorms and Islay, will be home before it all hits the fan 

Good luck 

 

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Next election, who knows what will happen. With FTTP and BoJo loosing its Ooomph over exit on 31 Oct.
Some Tory voters maybe will return from TBP, some Tory voters who were remain will leave Tory. And what the ex Labour Leave voters will do who last time voted TBO in the EU elections ?
ED8ZPJ2W4AEsUgB.jpg

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The French government has threatened to veto a further Brexit extension due to the “worrying” lack of progress in the recent talks, as EU diplomats expressed their frustration at being caught up in game-playing by the British government.

In a sign of rising exasperation, the French foreign minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, highlighted the lack of realistic proposals being put forward by Downing Street as an alternative to the Irish backstop.

“It’s very worrying. The British must tell us what they want,” Le Drian said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/08/france-threatens-to-veto-further-brexit-extension?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Wayne will be along soon for a bit French bashing and laying the blame on them. 

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28 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Next election, who knows what will happen. With FTTP and BoJo loosing its Ooomph over exit on 31 Oct.
Some Tory voters maybe will return from TBP, some Tory voters who were remain will leave Tory. And what the ex Labour Leave voters will do who last time voted TBO in the EU elections ?
ED8ZPJ2W4AEsUgB.jpg

The further out the GE the more time for BJ to implode. His best chance at forming a majority government is a quick election.

The chaos in the Tory party and Corbyn leading labour give the LibDems a once in a generation opportunity. In a first past the post system the third party becomes irrelevant, usually trailing the others by a large margin. If the LibDems can make a solid breakthrough to second then the party finishing third (labour?) is likely out of power for a generation or more and the LibDems become a viable contender for office.

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3 hours ago, mad said:

Wayne will be along soon for a bit French bashing and laying the blame on them. 

Not at all, the French are just being pragmatic about something that should have been resolved 2 years ago.

The French are also just playing good cop, bad cop games to put pressure on for the muppets leading the pack to fold like the idiots they are to get the maximum advantage they can.

Still on for the border to be down the Irish Sea which is something I raised oh months ago and you lot all ignored it, Tssk get with it boys. Boris has now nothing to loose by throwing Arlene under the bus, there was talk last night of her not standing in the next election, was that wishful thinking or was it fact, not sure as it was a late night radio discussion ?

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

Not at all, the French are just being pragmatic about something that should have been resolved 2 years ago.

The French are also just playing good cop, bad cop games to put pressure on for the muppets leading the pack to fold like the idiots they are to get the maximum advantage they can.

Still on for the border to be down the Irish Sea which is something I raised oh months ago and you lot all ignored it, Tssk get with it boys. Boris has now nothing to loose by throwing Arlene under the bus, there was talk last night of her not standing in the next election, was that wishful thinking or was it fact, not sure as it was a late night radio discussion ? 

Aahh you mean the Backstop.

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12 hours ago, WGWarburton said:

Yes; if the EU present an ultimatum, the populists will hype it up as the UK being dictated to by the EU and the backlash will be counterproductive. If they can continue to be patient until the tantrums stop, there's a chance that more of the UK electorate will see the EU in a better light.  Given the current shenanigans in Westminster, it isn't hard to appear relatively reasonable.

Even if you take the position that the EU should kick the UK out of the club and make an example out of it there is no real need for the EU to act. The UK is disintegrating itself quite nicely. Heck, even with the extension there is a good chance that after the next election Farange and the ERG will have the votes to force NODEAL as soon as the new parliament is seated. So why look like the villain if you can be the reasonable adult in the room instead as far as everyone other than the UK is concerned?

Form HOL testimony we know that the French are investing heavily in border infrastructure at the ferry ports and EuroTunnel. Apparently including the UK side, so that paperwork can be scanned and processed while the ferry moves. When asked if the UK is doing the same or similar the answer was a resounding NO... Overall a very pragmatic approach to the border issue is expected from the French. Unless somebody manages to piss them off that is.
Meanwhile, and that got only seconds of testimony, the Irish seem to have a very clear border policy in case of no deal. Apply the rules as written. Every single one of them, all of the time, to their fullest extent, from the first second of exit day. I guess somebody from the UK should have talked to them since Article 50 was triggered. In a reasonable way between governments, not issuing imperial edicts... For some entirely unfathomable reason the Irish also really dislike the prospect of direct rule in NI. Which is all but guaranteed for nodeal because Stormont can't get its act together.

Lovely... *puke*

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7 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Except the deficit is running at twice the amount allowed for new membership of the EU. The heyday of oil revenues is way past, the cry of "It's Scotland's Oil" comes from decades old campaign material around the time Gordon Wilson was elected MP for Dundee East defeating Labour's George Machin. I campaigned for Mr Wilson (that was 45+ years ago and I was still at school) and he turned out to be a very good constituency MP for Dundee.

Talk about opening up "West of Shetland" has been just that for decades, talk.

I would also be interested how we would protect "our oil". A Navy isn't cheap, perhaps one of our golf club owners would lend us some of his country's ships?

 

Ah my old friend....

Remember, we called him George MacHin (note the capital H). A Yorkshire labour party member parachuted into a "safe" seat. I enjoyed that day, my first ever vote.

As to Scotland's financial condition, you have been listening to Wayne and his Ilk.  Westminster has done a great job of conceiling facts for the sake of the union. Dig deeper. No offence intended, I know you are no numpty!

And then, Wayne, tosser, Scots hating the English just a bit more than the French? Do you mean we all hate you? We are allies with the French since the year dot, against you idiots. Go bile yer hied!

Oil....like fish, I confess to having a modicum of knowledge.

By the way, wish I could visit one of these days but looks like I will have to make do with Frog cuisine. Why don't you come visit?

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EU does not kick UK out. UK has activated Art 50. UK has to decide if they want to leave with a deal or without or remain. To have an unclear situation any longer is even worse then no deal. EU has already said the last time that they need to know  how UK wants to solve their problems, like a GE and/or 2nd Referendum, if they shall grant an extension. What has happened in the last extension period? Exactly nothing. HOC only votes against anything. Nobody believes anymore that any more extension time will change anything. How many times HOC voted against Mays deal? BJ still believed he can make a better deal without backstop. How many times EU has said they will not open the deal?  Now UK wants more time to discuss again about Mays deal and backstop. They are not going to do that. Why should EU grant UK any more time. UK can take the same decision now or in 3 month, makes no difference. Every argument has been on the table several times. Instead of using the extension time that was granted the last time MPs are going for holiday until 15 days before exit date. Too crazy. That's not using extension time properly. Nothing new to come. EU does not want to kick out UK, they only want to have a clear situation. Don't think that France or EU will agree on an extension. 

That's what I think are the feelings on this side of the channel... 

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Looks like there are 3 big questions left for tomorrow.

Will BoJo tell the Queen to block the bill?
What does the Queen do?
And of course the bane of all bookies:
WTF will BoJo do?

 

This Game of Politics only improves with increased distance from the SHTF site...

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Feeling pretty hopeful we can maybe avoid a no deal to be honest.

And this is exactly how Parliament is supposed to work, fucking no-one wants a no deal except the rich people who have money riding on it after shorting the pound (and want to avoid the new EU tax dodging stuff)

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Also if I hear 'but the will of the people was in the referendum' one more time I'm going to roll my eyes so hard I'll pass out

All polls indicate that put to a second referendum with the information they have today (the reality of a no deal exit being the main one but also the scale of the lies the leave side were saying and changing demographics) the results would be very different, so why push ahead with something that noone wants

I was originally 'well we should really leave as that was what people wanted' even though I voted remain but as the scale of the damage that would happen became apparent (plus the absolute massive misinformation campaign the leave side did (including all the Cambridge Analytics stuff plus all the lying that continues right now!)) I've fully switched back to staying in

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Plus if The Daily Mail, the Sun, the Express and Trump are all for something, that's probably not what you want.

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Looks as though Boris has done the impossible and "united" what he was banking on being the "un-unitable".

Yellowhammer reveal also brings into play the Civil Service who once Parliament stands down (on Thursday?) no longer have Ministerial oversight or conversely can't be gagged for the next 5 weeks. 

If this is all going to Boris's plan, then his only plan is Armageddon and Brexit is only the means, not the issue.

Note:  S24 is Parliamentary Procedure - Standing Order 24.

IMG_20190909_143918.jpg

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Also brings into play the Civil Service who once Parliament stands down (on Thursday?) no longer have Ministerial oversight or conversely can't be gagged for the next 5 weeks. 

Oh, really?
What could possibly go wrong? :lol: 
Didn't a former leading civil servant recently call for the civil service to put country above gouvernment a week or two ago? Maybe he thought about this.

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On 9/8/2019 at 12:12 AM, jgh66 said:

What if the EU now says, we don't give you an extension. You already voted on no "no deal" You had three options, now only two are left: remain or Mays deal. You managed to vote on "no deal" within days, you can take a decision between the two leftover possibilities within days. No need to wait another 3 month. 

Anything wrong with that idea? 

Read the thread, this has been discussed many times. Summary: turkeys rarely vote for an early Christmas.

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21 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Not a chance, they are a basket case financially even more so than some of the old Eastern Bloc countries, would the EU really want to take up that debt ?.

The only thing in their favour is they hate the Sassenachs even more than the French.

 

Sassenach is A gaidhlig word, So  to a highlander any speaker of English as a mother tongue  is a Sassenach, So most Scots are Sassenachs.. (Which genetically a great many are..)

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16 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Whichever one(s) are likely to inherit. 

Charles is the pre-eminent concern, I have not paid attention to the succession if he implodes. 

The history of British Royals named Charles is not encouraging.

 

He may not be King Charles, the future King can chose any name to use, Prince Albert became King Edward the 7th and Edward the 8th was known as David within the family..

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

Oh, really?
What could possibly go wrong? :lol: 
Didn't a former leading civil servant recently call for the civil service to put country above gouvernment a week or two ago? Maybe he thought about this.

Unless someone in Whitehall is willing to speak out and be sacked it is not so much about what they say or don't say but it simultaneously puts the spotlight on both Whitehall and Downing Street with them on the outer edge of that beam.

The Yellowhammer SO24 debate today means Amber Rudd's claims (who has quit both Cabinet and party and ironically a close friend of Boris's) are going to be debated. For instance:

1. No evidence Boris is seeking a deal with EU

2. Cabinet has been cut out of all things Brexit with the exception of Goves Brexit Committee and Downing St advisors led by Cummings.

3. Despite Cabinet asking for legal advise on Prorogue, have never received it despite two weeks between being advised and it occuring.

4. Cabinet being denied access to Yellowhammer Report or evidence that proper preperations for a No Deal are in place in response to it.

This has three impacts for today and this week.

1. It will deflate support to Boris's motion to seek an election today if not kill it and he abandons it and is forced into looking at resignation option when there is no prospects of a No Confidence Motion coming from the other side. 

2. Those Tory members fearful of No Deal but who have supported Boris to-date on misguided thinking Boris needs it to negotiate a Deal (but where there is no negotiation) and Cabinet being treated like mushrooms. They will start to become unglued. Estimates are they number as high as around 2/3 or 200 currently sticking by him.

3. The public will start to see Boris and those opposing him in a different light. Arguably that won't favour Boris as it is not a Remain/Leave fight as he is promoting, but a No Deal only fight. Brexit is still on the table.

Then on top of all that Boris's implied threat to break the law to sabotage the Block No Deal Bill.

This is better than Game of Thrones.

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17 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

This is better than Game of Thrones

Only for the likes of you Jack who has made an absolute fortune out of your family’s good luck in living in the wealth and job creation factory of London, then abondons ship at the first sign of business pressure to then mock and denigrate everything that bought them that wealth and fortune. One thing this little bump in the road has shown is, that mercenary companies like yours are just that mercenary companies.

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10 hours ago, jgh66 said:

UK has to decide if they want to leave with a deal or without or remain

UK decided 3 years ago to leave 52/48 and left it up to Parliament to sort the detail.

Parliament have spent 3 years working to exit with a Deal. So Remain is off the table. However there is a minority in HOC today pushing for a No Deal exit who made no mention of a No Deal exit 3 years ago.

The two do or die ideology driven Remainer (ie SNP) and Leaver (ie DUP) blocks cancel each other out. Ironically these two not voting for or against Brexit. They are both voting to prosecute either independence or for opposing reunification. The DUP if they had their way would put a wall around the 6 counties tomorrow and holla for the army.

The balance have voted to date on a Deal. It is only the nature of that deal where there is any difference. For instance for most part Labour have been pushing for a "softer" Brexit ie the cross party one in May's dying days that included "single market" inclusions on labour etc.

It is the Tory party who are the most split and the ones most responsible for where we are today.

They number around 100 largely made up by the ERG. They are the Brexit Party in disguise. They have also ensured Brexit has gone no where in 8 months using that time to get rid of May and to appoint their puppet Boris to fight the Brexit Party. If they didn't exist Brexit would have occured in March and Brexit Party wouldn't exist. They in fact gave birth to the party which now threatens them.

So it all comes down to a Deal or No Deal fight and making it crystal clear who is crying crocodile tears.

The stupidity of those two labels is "No Deal" actually means "Countless Deals with the Unanimous Agreement of all 27 EU States which might take a decade". I mention a decade as that equates to WTO FTA timelines plus a EU pissed off factor and from say making application in early 60's it took a decade for UK to join the EC (France objected).

The choice today really should be labelled between "One Deal" and "100/10 Years Deals". We pulled up stumps and moved to the EU having no desire to be Boris/Rasputin's guinea pigs for their 100/10 year ideology experiment.

 

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7 hours ago, alctel said:

All polls indicate that put to a second referendum with the information they have today 

Are these the same polls that predicted the remain win in the first referendum? :D

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Are they keeping Dubliners away from Boris or Boris away from Dubliners???

Pounds to peanuts Boris arrives back in the HOC later today to tell the House about either;

a) The highly productive talks he had with Leo and we are well advanced on a border arrangement to get rid of the Backstop.

OR

b) Leo is being an obstructive shit and doesn't think anything of my fabulous idea that Ireland leaves the EU Common and Single Market and adopts UK Laws & Regulations to get rid of the border and the Backstop.

Either way Leo will then Tweet all he managed to squeeze in during talks was "hullo Boris" and "goodbye Boris".

 

 

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Boris Johnson’s claims to be conducting a Brexit renegotiation have come under fresh doubt as the UK’s closest EU ally expressed alarm at the “breathtaking” developments in Westminster and the government’s failure to table alternatives to the Irish backstop.

The Dutch minister for trade, Sigrid Kaag, described the scenes being played out in London as “unbelievable” and warned of the EU’s waning patience given the impact on European businesses of the continued uncertainty.

Johnson committed in early August in discussions with EU leaders to swiftly tabling an alternative solution to the Irish backstop, which would temporarily keep Northern Ireland in the single market and the UK in a customs union to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.

Sign up to our Brexit weekly briefing

 

Read more

The lack of such proposals and the attempt by the Brexit secretary, Stephen Barclay, over the weekend to lay the blame for a lack of progress on the European commission has confirmed to many in Brussels that the outgoing work and pensions secretary, Amber Rudd, was right about the prime minister’s lack of seriousness in sealing a deal.

theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/09/eu-losing-patience-britain-dutch-minister

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Usual pack drill. Straight forward question then a mumbling bumbling nothingless.

I quick reminder as Merkel's 30 days came up in that Q&A and the Irish Sea border was put to him re DUP. For the 30 days Boris referred both Macron and Merkel to the Alternative Arrangements Commission Report dated July. That Report has Nth Ireland remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market at Day One pending Maximum Facilitation recommendations being implemented,  say 3 years.

Seems to me in talking pre meeting but with no proposals on hand he has now backed away from that Report limiting it to just maybe Agri-Foods, but definitely People and Livestock at Day One? Does that imply he put that to Leo and Leo told him to take a hike so not touched on here?

Does that mean Leo has just said it is back to the beginning as it was for May which is a Irish only backstop before DUP tore it to shreds. Surely there is a majority for that in Westminister even if the ERG Spartans oppose it??? 

Time for Boris to grow some balls bigger than Arlene's.

 

 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

...

It is the Tory party who are the most split and the ones most responsible for where we are today.

...

 

Totally obvious, yet baffling that this is not and has not been the spearhead of Labour strategy heading into the inevitable coming election...

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3 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

Totally obvious, yet baffling that this is not and has not been the spearhead of Labour strategy heading into the inevitable coming election...

Trouble is it is not obvious to normal punter now. Last time that split was abundantly visible was #2 Vote on May's Deal. Vote #3 the closest margin and least amount of Tory dissenting but it wasn't binding and didn't include Political Declaration only the WA. That allowed Boris, Rees Mogg and Co to go though a sham display of voting for it. Even then I think around 30 ERG hardline Spartans still said No. 

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10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Time to put away Brexit and Cricket bad dream.

 

 

Good thing they missed the upcoming pilot strike. 

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13 minutes ago, mad said:

Good thing they missed the upcoming pilot strike. 

A lot of encouragement to get through to the Final and miss Brexit. It is on 2 November.

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Boris' latest cunning plan, according to your Daily Telegraph, would be to send the letter asking for extension and at same time send a second letter saying it's not needed. In normal times one would think this is rather nonsensical, but these days even the silliest hairbrained plan might become reality.

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Way forward;
Bj does not need a big team for Brexit negotiation. He knows what he want and what the EU wants..
No Deal or Deal as per May, with Irish sea border and a time limit. Even if it is 25 years. Fuck DUP and ERG.

or;
BJ does not have a plan et all and will see, you have an improv theatre government. But BJ needs to stay PM.

Looking at BJ talks lately, he promises everyone something else, and has a secret magic plan.
Solid in the improv corner at the moment. And all lies are allowed.

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51 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Way forward;
Bj does not need a big team for Brexit negotiation. He knows what he want and what the EU wants..
No Deal or Deal as per May, with Irish sea border and a time limit. Even if it is 25 years. Fuck DUP and ERG.

or;
BJ does not have a plan et all and will see, you have an improv theatre government. But BJ needs to stay PM.

Looking at BJ talks lately, he promises everyone something else, and has a secret magic plan.
Solid in the improv corner at the moment. And all lies are allowed.

Theatrical improvisation and lies...sums up BJ

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1 hour ago, Albatros said:

Boris' latest cunning plan, according to your Daily Telegraph, would be to send the letter asking for extension and at same time send a second letter saying it's not needed. In normal times one would think this is rather nonsensical, but these days even the silliest hairbrained plan might become reality.

However, Lord Sumption, a former judge of the UK's Supreme Court, said such a ploy would not be legal.

"To send the letter and then try and neutralise it seems to me to be plainly a breach of the act," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Solid in the improv corner at the moment. And all lies are allowed.

In the absence of not implementing the only solution being an Irish Sea one, it is difficult to see this other than it being to stay PM and he is using Brexit as the means to bury all opposition, possibly even including the Spartans holding him to ransom. Why?

Other than a blip with Heath in 1970–1974, since WWII the UK change Governments like clockwork around every 10 years. Churchill even got his decade albeit with two goes. The Tory's "time-up" is coming into sight now.

He is trying to extend the clock and doesn't care how, or leave Labour a chalice so poisoned he will be back very quickly to do his decade at the wheel.

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Athena saved Hercules when he went mad and started killing his children.
Athena, the Greek goddess associated with wisdom, handicraft & warfare.
Though Hercules did do great stuff.
look at BJ face...

And no surprise, BJ never mentioned the backstop to be undemocratic... his goto explanation for his resistance the last weeks.

 

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^ Leo V really is the smiling assassin.

There's a mighty long queue building behind Boris's back.

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Also has been confirmed today last sitting day, might go to early Tuesday morning.

Looks as though Downing Street want to get Boris off the street and into hiding ASAP, a tactic used before.

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Brexit effect for the Netherlands, ..

UK €91Bn last year behind the eightball incl disinvestment. Ouch. Also when that movement is contrary to a falling pound that ordinarily would slow it. Double ouch.

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

...

It finishes with words;" There is no instance of a nation benefiting by prolonged warfare."

Tell that to the Romans.

It may be true in modern times if you add "engaging in"...$86 billion leaves room for some profit margin.

2010–2018
Rank
Supplier Arms Exp
1 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States 86,233
2 23px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png Russia 61,308
3 23px-Flag_of_France.svg.png France 15,022
4 23px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png Germany 15,021
5 23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_ China 13,926
6 23px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png United Kingdom 10,922
7 23px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png Spain 7,658
8 21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png Israel 6,583
9 23px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png Italy 6,462
10 23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png Netherlands 5,211

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

UK €91Bn behind the eightball incl disinvestment. Ouch. Also when that movement is contrary to a falling pound that ordinarily would slow it.

And the UK needs capital investment to deal with slower border crossing.

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3 minutes ago, KC375 said:

And the UK needs capital investment to deal with slower border crossing.

I think they have found a solution to slow the flight of capital out of the UK...pay British Airways pilots not to turn up.

images - 2019-09-10T002550.783.jpeg

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Pity for Boris a reporter, Offaly bred and Dublin seasoned showed up not forgetting him saying he would "die and in a ditch" the other day and previously the "Irish border is no different than crossing between Camden & Islington". 

 

 

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Speaker of the House John Bercow to stand down at the next election or October 31st whichever comes first.

Standing ovation as thanks and appreciation from all except the Conservative front benches...

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Apparently the Tories were planning to run a candidate against him in the next election, breaking all previous conventions.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/08/tories-contest-speaker-john-bercow-seat-breach-convention-andrea-leadsom-brexit

Another example of BoJo Cummings tearing up the rulebooks...

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On 9/8/2019 at 8:56 AM, jgh66 said:

 Macron has said clearly he is against further extensions. 

No he hasn't. He's said he clearly might be. 

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Most Conservative MPs have left the chamber unable to stomach ongoing tributes to Speaker Bercow.

Commons Live.

 

 

fantastic, it's the Bercow show at this moment, clearly visible a big load off his shoulders so he's going all out

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1 hour ago, Albatros said:

fantastic, it's the Bercow show at this moment, clearly visible a big load off his shoulders so he's going all out

Gloves are definitely off!

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1 hour ago, Albatros said:

fantastic, it's the Bercow show at this moment, clearly visible a big load off his shoulders so he's going all out

I’m sure he’s going enjoy the last few days in chair, he hasn’t got many left with Boris’s break and the conference bullshit. 

They shouldn’t be have party conferences anyway, they should be sorting this festering shit pile out. 

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If you want to vomit Gove is up justifying a £100 million spend on telling the public to prepare for a No Deal, but defending why they shouldn't be told what to prepare for (Yellowhammer).

He is completely deranged.

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25 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

He is completely deranged.

He is a politician, what did you expect?


And another win for the opposition.
Here comes the next SO24 debate. Maybe BoJo can at least defeat Corbyn.

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HoC Vote on motion to compel Government to provide Parliament with Brexit Impact Assessment (Yellowhammer Report) and communications relating to Prorogation. It is in the form of the Queen instructing Govt to do so by tomorrow.

Result  Yes: 311    No: 302

No wonder Boris has suspended Parliament on the first day, he can't turn a trick. BTW Boris didn't turn up.

Now to Motion about Government complying with the Rule of Law (No Deal Act).

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Well given BJ's track record as PM...the trendline is pretty clear and the absence of deviations and outliers make the extrapolation easier...with BJ pushing for Brexit the UK will end up revoking article 50

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47 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If you want to vomit Gove is up justifying a £100 million spend on telling the public to prepare for a No Deal, but defending why they shouldn't be told what to prepare for (Yellowhammer).

He is completely deranged.

It’s not exactly new news Jack. 

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23 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

HoC Vote on motion to compel Government to provide Parliament with Brexit Impact Assessment (Yellowhammer Report) and communications relating to Prorogation. It is in the form of the Queen instructing Govt to do so by tomorrow.

Result  Yes: 311    No: 302

No wonder Boris has suspended Parliament on the first day, he can't turn a trick. BTW Boris didn't turn up.

Now to Motion about Government complying with the Rule of Law (No Deal Act).

He didn’t turn up??!!

WTF?

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