Meat Wad

Brexit, WTF

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With this quite bizzare revelation overnight I have got out my Sherlock Holmes cap.

 

So where should we start.

Last week Arlene Foster argued that "any Brexit Agreement must be one which can be supported by both unionists & nationalists.”

On that basis this proposal of Boris's is dead in the water already as follows.

Sinn Féin say it’s “absolutely out of the question”

 

 

 

& SDLP say it’s “unacceptable”

 

& Alliance Party say no.

Dublin have also kicked it to the kerb

 

 

 

And as for the EU, no comment yet but you don't have to be Einstein to work out what it will be.

 

 

And as for the DUP,  well they think Boris has a grande idea.

BTW Arlene you really need to brush up on your border history. Customs checks ceased in 1992 with introduction of the Single Market. "No body died" there? WTF. Try 2 years before in 1990 @ Coshquin Derry, 6 soldier and 1 civilian dead 14 wounded. 

 

 

 

So why in the fuck would Boris pull this dumb stunt knowing surely it would fail?

Was it to take Arlene's words; "Any Brexit Agreement must be one which can be supported by both unionists & nationalists.” then throw some shit on the wall and before it slid off have the DUP capitulate and fall in behind everyone else on the island of Ireland? Well if that the plan it fucking failed. 

So maybe start first with who would have leaked it?

It can't be the Irish Government as they along with all EU states have not seen Boris's Non-Papers submitted to Brussels and in accord with Boris's embargo.

Therefore Arlene reakons it is Brussels leak.

But they have not leaked contents of any of the other 4 Non Papers submitted in accord with that embargo.

 

So the only remaining culprit is Boris/Downing Street leaking it on the eve of Boris presenting "something" today in Brussels.

But why? Maybe the answer lies in the timing as indicated in this tweet. which applies regardless of who leaked.

 

Boris's intention is to roll up tomorrow at the Tory conference wearing his green Hulk suit and tie for his closing speech, seeking party endorsement and then repeating this message in the HOC on Thursday, which will be I suspect generally as follows:

" Friends I was in Brussels yesterday and negotiations have the UK proposing a reasonable and workable border solution (read two if not three Irish borders where there is now just one and with full checks at the border margins, totally contrary what I promised the other day) versus our friends and neighbours still wanting an Irish Only Backstop that will tear our Union apart. I believe we will meet in the middle before 17 October, trust me, but if not, it wasn't for my and your Governments want of trying". "Furthermore my friends if those girly swats and Marxists sitting on the other side of the House with their Surrender Act in tow, Constitutional Coups and riding over Democracy think they will stop us, they are sadly mistaken." "We must remain a unified party and Get Brexit Done" 

Or in other words the prospects of a Deal no longer exists which is the EU's fault and so I'm taking us all over the cliff, and I'm goading the girly swats to put up a motion of no confidence if they don't like that so I don't have to write a letter seeking a A.50 extension and have me looking like a complete fuckwit, or worse still force me to break the law and end up in the Tower of London.

The girly swats in HOC need to get their differences buried, maintain a unified approach, do their numbers noting the Tory rebels vote is not guaranteed and hold their nerve. 

Whether they can do that is the million dollar question.

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Again the old trick of calling 27 EU state leaders first before Barnier, hope they are very polite.
At least this week we will know his plan.

Nick Robinson is interviewing Boris Johnson on Today.

Q: Will you be ringing EU leaders today about your plans?

Johnson says he has been making calls.

He has seen some leaked plans, possibly leaked by Brussels, that are not quite right.

Q: So the report about having customs clearances sites away from the border are not true?

Johnson says that is correct.

It would not make sense to have a new border away from the border.

Q: But people say there have to be checks somewhere?

Johnson says he accepts that.

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5 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Again the old trick of calling 27 EU state leaders first before Barnier, hope they are very polite.

Leo I recall Raab as Brexit Sec last year (or was it May?) who tried that trick of cutting out Barnier and was sent packing with tail between legs.

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May it was.

UK exports waste to the Netherlands, in 3 years this will stop due to government plans on taxation on foreign waste. Good luck finding a solution for that.
The Netherlands is the largest importer of U.K. waste, receiving 1.3 million tons of British garbage in 2018 — almost half the country's total trash exports. In an average week, that's about 25,000 tons of waste, or a truckload every 15 minutes.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-leaves-the-uk-with-a-smelly-problem/

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20 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Nick Robinson is interviewing Boris Johnson on Today.

Q: Will you be ringing EU leaders today about your plans?

Johnson says he has been making calls.

He has seen some leaked plans, possibly leaked by Brussels, that are not quite right.

Q: So the report about having customs clearances sites away from the border are not true?

Johnson says that is correct.

It would not make sense to have a new border away from the border.

Q: But people say there have to be checks somewhere?

Johnson says he accepts that.

Leaked by maybe Brussels Boris says.

Anyway Boris says that "leak" is all out of date. So Brussels leak shit that is out of date?

He says there will be no checks but accepts there have to be checks.WTF.

Putting aside he is deranged, what is his plan he will reveal in Brussels today and tomorrow in his conference closing speach? 

Can't wait.

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After Tories has their Brexit they will return to old style politics. But you have to wonder how damaging this all is to the UK.
That FTTP system really makes people loyal to one party.

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His plan,

looks like a little bit on the NI/Ireland border, a little bit in the Irish Sea, for the rest trust us and AA.

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24 minutes ago, LeoV said:

After Tories has their Brexit they will return to old style politics. But you have to wonder how damaging this all is to the UK.
That FTTP system really makes people loyal to one party.

Leo very good point remembering two legislative changes championed by the two major parties and that are now biting the Tories in the arse in particilar.

1. First Past the Post never contemplated minor parties getting enough votes and 3 or even 4 corner contests appearing. The Lib Dems and Brexit Party following now has turned that thinking on its head.

2. The Tories championed the Fixed Term Parliament Act on account to dislodge Labour they would not get a majority so it guaranteed to a minor party in coalition they would not be subject to a Tory snap election when they thought they had a majority of seats and shove them aside. That was their pitch to the Lib Dems and they succeeded. That 2/3 majority of seats to call an election has now bitten Boris on the arse. 

I think that is called Karma.

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And still they can win the next election. Or Labour or coalition somewhere.

Nothing in a GE that solves the Brexit problem as far as can see. Unless Libdem or TBP wins a big chunk of seats against the FTTP arrangement.

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10 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Nothing in a GE that solves the Brexit problem as far as can see. Unless Libdem or TBP wins a big chunk of seats against the FTTP arrangement.

Yep a GE is a waste of time for solving Brexit. Another hung parliament again is all it will produce with probably a coalition involving two parties that don't trust one another and with opposing views on Brexit. Will make current state of play look stable unless Tory's and TBP suddenly have a love in....which is starting to look inevitable by the day.

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

I liked this line:

"The Conservatives are now to the Brexit party what cocaine is to crack: more acceptable in polite company, but ultimately made of the same stuff."

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

His plan,

looks like a little bit on the NI/Ireland border, a little bit in the Irish Sea, for the rest trust us and AA.

Leo where it ends up who knows? 

I like most people preserve the sanctity of private conversations. However I'm calling this one in the national interest.

In a first class airline lounge on the other side of the world there was a very animated conversation around 10 days ago. One party had a few minders who started to get even more animated. The other party, "I can't believe it is her in the flesh". 

Anyway putting aside my paranoia of being targeted by MI5, one subject of a short but wide ranging discussion was the UK's current Tarriff Schedule for a No Deal and it having regard to the Irish border colliding with WTO rules. That was also in the context of a letter from a HOC Select Committee dated July (predicated by business concerns) she received and seeking clarification but she let go unanswered. A letter still unanswered to this day.

In frustration this lass with all the minders, who I think were contemplating their Kung Fu skills at this point, blurted out something to the effect; "that No Deal Tarriff Schedule is now being reviewed by my department and HMRC". WTF.

So watch this space.

PS. Being the diplomat I didn't query if she had now mastered the art of using a phone.

IMG_20191001_193025.jpg

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Some in the field say BJ Deal plan looks like the EU No Deal planning.

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9 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Some in the field say BJ Deal plan looks like the EU No Deal planning.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today

BBC Radio 4 TodayVerified account @BBCr4today
FollowFollow @BBCr4today
More

"There is no plan, that's just a simple fact." Former Tory Cabinet minister @JustineGreening urges the PM to publish details of any Brexit negotiations with the EU #r4today https://bbc.in/2mbfdTZ 

 
/>
0:31
47.9K views
 
11:37 PM - 29 Sep 2019

/status/1178559500149760002

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37 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Some in the field say BJ Deal plan looks like the EU No Deal planning.

Leo I believe that to be nonsence. Boris promised the Tory membership electing him, that No Deal was a "one in a million chance". Bit like him saying trust me darling I won't blow in your mouth or what ever the orifice on offer.

How long can he keep getting away with this shit? How long do the Tory party keep  putting up with his shit?

Mind boggling.

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39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

PS. Being the diplomat I didn't query if she had now mastered the art of using a phone.

Jack, this may be a dumb question, but since I am from the younger generation that doesn't understand what clockwise means, I'll ask anyway.

That spiral thing, did she just pull that out of her arse, and now tries to put it back into her ears? My grandpa has several slightly shorter ones in his arteries and calls them stunts or stints or so. My sister has got a stent in her pussy with a tiny vibrator, and programs it with her iPhone. It's a bit like asking what those fishing poles are for on the Imocas, but what the hell is going on with your business partner?

IMG_20191001_193025.jpg.adfaa2a903d45b805e515912db86b937.jpg.b8fc89cc22562338b321a79177d55871.jpg

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Has the Prime Minister's stance changed due to the Benn Act? @DavidGauke says "Yes, but...". He saw little evidence of work on a deal before the vote, and did see a change after... but then the Government ran into the backstop issue and that changed again.

So BJ was happily cruising to a NO Deal, then Parliament blocked him. He started to work on it, only to realize that NI is a problem for any deal he could agree with. So now he just wants an election so that he can stay in power after an extension.He is really winging it.

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Ha,

notwithstanding BJ says now border controls are needed (did he not vow UK government would never put one up ? ), and not away from the border.
There will be at least 4 borders in his latest plan

Sanitary and Phytosanitary down the Irish sea (at sea ports). Cows are Irish.
Then one land border.
Freeports, with two more borders,  at each free port.

It all borders on the insane.

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One part of me says come on Boris crash out with No Deal supported by people with single digit IQ's. You know the score No Deal = Countless EU deals requiring sign off by all and every EU state. I think their record for doing that is 3 years and Canada 8 years?

It will be wonderfull entertainment beyond your current efforts to entertain us all.

Boris on 1 November you will have to ring up the representatives of your largest trading block that puts amoungst other things lettuces on the UK table. They are Phil Hogan the EU's Trade Commisioner, a proud Irishman whose country you have just royaly fucked over. But it gets worse.

Assisting Phil will be a young lass named Sabine Weyand now in EU Trade, but used to be Barnier's offsider in Brexit negotiations. This rare footage of her in action dated January this year.

Mate you are well and truly fucked.

Fuck Boris you sent that numpty Steve Barclay to Brussels last week and the two of you couldn't even organise enough bodies on his side of the table to make it even appear a realistic negotiation. Yet that moron of yours tweets a pic for evidence of a nothing event with accompanying bullshit. WTF.

 

Boris you and by extension the UK are now a joke on the international world stage.

Sad, but can't wait to watch you chewed up come 1 November. My money is on Sabine.

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55 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Ha,

notwithstanding BJ says now border controls are needed (did he not vow UK government would never put one up ? ), and not away from the border.
There will be at least 4 borders in his latest plan

Sanitary and Phytosanitary down the Irish sea (at sea ports). Cows are Irish.
Then one land border.
Freeports, with two more borders,  at each free port.

It all borders on the insane.

Leo you are wrong it is not 4 borders but minimum 5.

1. Existing border where of the nearly 300 crossings many don't even have mains power electricity to service any infrastructure there or miles either side. Then that border bridges many private properties, some industrial not just rural. You need a passport to go get your lunch.

2. Boris's new 5/10 mile border zone with UK and RoI checking stations either side.

3. Ditto

4. The east west NI/UK border. Not many people know checks already occur there today for livestock.

5. The RoI /EU border which is non existent today (other than for checks on account of RoI not being Schengen) having to be beefed up. 

6. NI Freeports...fuck let's have some more borders.

During the Troubles there was only one border, Boris has just created up to five times the number of targets for dissidents.

This border insanity of Boris's defies imagination.

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Jack, this may be a dumb question, but since I am from the younger generation that doesn't understand what clockwise means, I'll ask anyway.

That spiral thing, did she just pull that out of her arse, and now tries to put it back into her ears? My grandpa has several slightly shorter ones in his arteries and calls them stunts or stints or so. My sister has got a stent in her pussy with a tiny vibrator, and programs it with her iPhone. It's a bit like asking what those fishing poles are for on the Imocas, but what the hell is going on with your business partner?

IMG_20191001_193025.jpg.adfaa2a903d45b805e515912db86b937.jpg.b8fc89cc22562338b321a79177d55871.jpg

Is she holding that phone upside down?

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10 minutes ago, mad said:

Is she holding that phone upside down?

Dunno, but she seems to have charging cable plugged in.

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2 minutes ago, Upp3 said:

Dunno, but she seems to have charging cable plugged in.

Image result for liz truss phone photo

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22 minutes ago, mad said:

Is she holding that phone upside down?

She was speaking to her Japanese counterpart In that shot thinking Japan is in the southern hemisphere and so thought that's what you had to do. I can confirm by personel experience she ain't very bright.

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Cummings even monitors how Boris now takes coffee to be electorally pure and get the Greenpeace vote.

The shagging everything that has a heartbeat thing and now claims of using taxpayer funds to get laid Cummings must still be in catch up mode on? Then again maybe impossible to defend so he just hopes it goes away.

 

 

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This bury Boris with legal to stop him breaking the law (Benn Act) has been overshadowed by recent events. 

Court of Session full hearing 11am Friday to compel Boris to request extension to Article 50 if no deal in place to leave EU.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Cummings even monitors how Boris now takes coffee to be electorally pure and get the Greenpeace vote.

The shagging everything that has a heartbeat thing and using taxpayer funds to get laid he must be in catch up mode on?

 

+ the security aspect.   If it hasn't been brewed under the supervision of the security detail, they aint letting him drink it.

 

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Fuck Boris must really want the Led By Donkeys crew to get run over by a bus...a red one with big letters on the side.

 

They don't even miss Rasputin.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Is she holding that phone upside down?

yes, but she was on a call to Japan, that's on the other side of the world, so it makes real sense

edit ... ooops, bit late on the draw

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Boris has told no-one what is going on let alone his monkeys holding the fort in Westminister trying to defend him.

 

 

DUP now getting the shits and breaking ranks???

 

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49 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

by personel experience she ain't very bright.

grin, dunno about that, having worked for a couple of decades for a japanese concern and having had hundreds if not thousands phone calls to and from Tokyo headquarters, on seeing this pic I was wondering why I never came up with this way of using the phone, could have helped at times B)

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32 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

+ the security aspect.   If it hasn't been brewed under the supervision of the security detail, they aint letting him drink it.

But Rasputin was the one who was poisoned (albeit unsuccessfully so then had to be shot) not the Tzzar (who then got shot), so I'm now really confused???

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Boris has told no-one what is going on let alone his monkeys holding the fort in Westminister trying to defend him.

13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Boris has told no-one what is going on let alone his monkeys holding the fort in Westminister trying to defend him.

 

 

DUP now getting the shits and breaking ranks???

 

So if he can write to him to explain this simple request, why can't he share it with the house?? And yet again, why the fuck are they not forced to answer the fucking question??

 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

So if he can write to him to explain this simple request, why can't he share it with the house?? And yet again, why the fuck are they not forced to answer the fucking question??

Mad this is as confusing as fuck I know.

We are now at page 768 of the "Rise and Fall of the Russian Empire". 

So according to script even if Tzzar Boris was in the HOC at the Dispatch Box he couldn't answer that question today. Only Rasputin knows the answer as truth be known the Tzzar is as dumb as a house brick. So waste of time interogating that monkey standing in his place.

Now things get turned on their head.

According to page 769 Rasputin is the one to first go by getting poisoned, drowned, shot in the head stuff. The Express and Spectator only report he got a bad headache and died, but put that aside.

That leaves the Tzzar free to run around for a while totally oblivious to the fact his country is fucked and the ERG Bolsheviks with Rasputin gone are planning to bump him and his entire family off. The only thing slowing them down is trying to track down all of the Tzzars offspring.

However as @Mambo Kings points out above it seems Tzzar Boris's Praetorian Guard get a wiff of a plot by Rasputin to poison the Tzzar. WTF.

They save him just in time from drinking that deadly Rasputin brew disguised in the Tzzars favourite Starbucks polystyrene cup.

 

So from now on who knows what happens. We are now in very much uncharted political territory. 

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Stand ins for PMQ's tomorrow and last day of Tory Conference with Boris home from Brussels to tell all.

Interestingly Abbott a Windrush Generation child which maybe is a PMQ first.

 

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Stand ins for PMQ's 

 

 

Fuck me, that's going be the blind leading the blind................what a waste of fucking time.

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Fuck me, that's going be the blind leading the blind................what a waste of fucking time.

Yeah I think most interest will be on what is coming out Manchester not London tomorrow.

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What are the chances of a Tory member standing up tomorrow and asking Boris why he refuses to disclose to the UK;

1. Any information on the exit Deal he is seeking?

2. The real impacts for a No Deal exit?

My guess zero. Therefore those fuckers are culpable for the outcome. 

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Ogh dear.....the Guardian will have him assaulting a pregnant Labour Party protestor....the Express will say he got his medication mixed up and forgot to put on his trousers.

 

 

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Home Secretary Priti Patel vows to end freedom of movement 'once and for all' after Brexit and introduce an Australian-style points-based immigration system 

Well that should work out well. It's been a big image builder for Australia.

image.jpg

41233928_303.jpg

But  then the UK probably doesn't need any lessons from Australia. Afterall the UK deployed concentration camps during the Boer war.

boers-at-nylstroom-camp.jpg

lizzie-van-zyl.jpg

Is this the glorious past the Tory party seeks to recreate after Brexit?

OK so that was over the top, but what is with the crazy Tory/Brexiteer obsession with demonizing immigrants? Are they just trying to prove themselves racist?

Here we have Jocob Rees-Mogg on the BBC explaining that the Boer War concentration camps were like living in Glasgow, that the camps were to "protect" and to "feed" the internies.

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

What are the chances of a Tory member standing up tomorrow and asking Boris why he refuses to disclose to the UK;

1. Any information on the exit Deal he is seeking?

2. The real impacts for a No Deal exit?

My guess zero. Therefore those fuckers are culpable for the outcome. 

Even if they did? They wouldn’t get any answers. 

Quite simply, because they have no answers. 

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

Here we have Jocob Rees-Mogg on the BBC explaining that the Boer War concentration camps were like living in Glasgow, that the camps were to "protect" and to "feed" the internies.

Totally despicable, they murdered 10% of the population of the Boers, including family from me.
22.000 children in a year, and 6000 adults. It was infant killing.

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

Home Secretary Priti Patel vows to end freedom of movement 'once and for all' after Brexit and introduce an Australian-style points-based immigration system 

Well that should work out well. It's been a big image builder for Australia.

image.jpg

41233928_303.jpg

But  then the UK probably doesn't need any lessons from Australia. Afterall the UK deployed concentration camps during the Boer war.

boers-at-nylstroom-camp.jpg

lizzie-van-zyl.jpg

Is this the glorious past the Tory party seeks to recreate after Brexit?

OK so that was over the top, but what is with the crazy Tory/Brexiteer obsession with demonizing immigrants? Are they just trying to prove themselves racist?

Here we have Jocob Rees-Mogg on the BBC explaining that the Boer War concentration camps were like living in Glasgow, that the camps were to "protect" and to "feed" the internies.

A vile cunt of epic proportions! 

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A motorcycle riding friend from Baltimore, has just landed in England. Will be interesting to hear his thoughts. He visits often.

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24 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

A motorcycle riding friend from Baltimore, has just landed in England. Will be interesting to hear his thoughts. He visits often.

Dont mention the Germans and Brexit :)

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49 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

A motorcycle riding friend from Baltimore, has just landed in England. Will be interesting to hear his thoughts. He visits often.

Could well be his last trip to a European UK! 

Nothing like visiting a country in turmoil, the rioting is a couple of months away yet. :lol::ph34r:

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I've only just come across this thread, I wish I hadn't, I'm even more depressed. Particularly to watch the C4 clip and have a German explain our position (or lack of any position) explained more clearly than any of our lot ever could. Sabine Weyand for pm.

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1 minute ago, boguing said:

I've only just come across this thread, I wish I hadn't, I'm even more depressed. Particularly to watch the C4 clip and have a German explain our position (or lack of any position) explained more clearly than any of our lot ever could. Sabine Weyand for pm.

Where have you been hiding the last 3 plus years??!

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Where have you been hiding the last 3 plus years??!

Since the Scottish Referendum I've tried to avoid political debates in places where I respect the views of others. My 92 year old Mum and her little sister fell out over that one, and I lost a bunch of Sunday afternoon pub mates because of their stance on this one.

But then I stumble across you lot saying exactly what I think and I have to put my hand up and say 'aye'.

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2 minutes ago, boguing said:

Since the Scottish Referendum I've tried to avoid political debates in places where I respect the views of others. My 92 year old Mum and her little sister fell out over that one, and I lost a bunch of Sunday afternoon pub mates because of their stance on this one.

But then I stumble across you lot saying exactly what I think and I have to put my hand up and say 'aye'.

Fair enough and very admirable, it’s a conversation choice that I’m careful where I raise it.  It’s caused monumental family rifts for many including my own, however, there’s a point of lunacy where basic logic has to be pointed out.  As much as it would entertain me to watch my brother try to cut his fingers off by being stupid as a child, I did actually stop him at the last minute. 

This is one of those occasions, however at this rate, I’m willing to watch him do it.  It’s the only way some learn the lesson of their own stupidity. 

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BJ plans ahead for 4 years max, the EU has to look for a longer time frame.

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11 minutes ago, LeoV said:

BJ plans ahead for 4 years max, the EU has to look for a longer time frame.

This would work, if they gave NI an option at the end of the 4 years , via referendum to decide if they want to stay is the European single market zone , or join the UK trade zone. NI would still be part of sovereign United Kingdom but for trade purposes it could either be aligned with EU or UK.  4 years- 2 borders, then dismantle one of the borders (the choice being up to the people who live there.

 

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Will not fly in the EU, what a mixed stitched up plan, with so many problems.
But BJ will present it with, this deal or No Deal tomorrow. And No Deal means extension by Benn act.
Curious how the EU will react.

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DUP can veto everything in the future. So totally unacceptable for the EU.
And BJ is expected to signal that if Brussels fails to immediately engage with his new proposals he will break off all negotiations and go straight for a no-deal exit.

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4 minutes ago, LeoV said:


Curious how the EU will react.

the obvious first reaction should be like : "thanks for this proposal, we have sent it to our team headed by Barnier, it would have been better  and quicker if you would have sent it to them in the first place, and we eagerly await their feedback on the matter ... in the meantime, keep up the good works".... but these days, anything goes

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I think, we will give you extension without end date, email us when you have decided on one deal in a democratic way. See ya fuckymcfuckface.

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BJ will go to court over the Benn act, hoping he can get his NO DEAL. He has 30 days.

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36 minutes ago, LeoV said:

BJ plans ahead for 4 years max, the EU has to look for a longer time frame.

Perfect, he’s only trying to win the next election and serve 4 years as PM and he can retire in a blaze of glory........Well that’s what Cummins has told him. :P

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21 minutes ago, LeoV said:

DUP can veto everything in the future. So totally unacceptable for the EU.
And BJ is expected to signal that if Brussels fails to immediately engage with his new proposals he will break off all negotiations and go straight for a no-deal exit.

The judges are probably on standby as we discuss and probably have been since day 1. 

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19 minutes ago, LeoV said:

I think, we will give you extension without end date, email us when you have decided on one deal in a democratic way. See ya fuckymcfuckface.

And that quite possibly is the best ending to this saga!   Wait a decade for the in-fighting to die down, along with most of those that started this and pushed it through to this corrupt mess and then have a referendum again. 
 

Hopefully people will have grown up by then. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Perfect, he’s only trying to win the next election and serve 4 years as PM and he can retire in a blaze of glory........Well that’s what Cummins has told him. 

Yep, everything looks like he is trying to win the next election. This deal is part of the blame game.

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1 minute ago, mad said:

And that quite possibly is the best ending to this saga!   Wait a decade for the in-fighting to die down, along with most of those that started this and pushed it through to this corrupt mess and then have a referendum again. 
 

Hopefully people will have grown up by then. 

best outcome for some mudislanders maybe, but all the time the rest of europe would be pestered by an undecisive, negative, bellingerant mob from across the channel,the very thing Boris is threathening (again, yawn) the euro's with right now if they don''t go along with his latest nonsense//// no thanks, out now or full in.

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15 minutes ago, Albatros said:

best outcome for some mudislanders maybe, but all the time the rest of europe would be pestered by an undecisive, negative, bellingerant mob from across the channel,the very thing Boris is threathening (again, yawn) the euro's with right now if they don''t go along with his latest nonsense//// no thanks, out now or full in.

Unfortunately there’s no way that decision is going to be made in the timeframe planned. The EU can just tell the UK not to come back until we’ve learnt to be civil and ignore petulant child having a tantrum. 
 

Its not even a threat, it’s fucking laughable. Desperately clutching at straws. 

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43 minutes ago, mad said:

Perfect, he’s only trying to win the next election and serve 4 years as PM and he can retire in a blaze of glory........Well that’s what Cummins has told him. :P

That seems the most optimistic for BJ.

At the moment I'd say he has a fighting chance of winning an election. Majority government - maybe not. Four years at very best. Re-election dubious.

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3 minutes ago, KC375 said:

That seems the most optimistic for BJ.

At the moment I'd say he has a fighting chance of winning an election. Majority government - maybe not. Four years at very best. Re-election dubious.

I was most definitely joking, hopefully he’s out by Christmas. 

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As far as I now can read, Westminster Tory can not find a definite solution, so Stormont will in 4 years time.
Note, Stormont is a bigger mess then Westminster. With DUP having veto rights.

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Will not fly in the EU, what a mixed stitched up plan, with so many problems.
But BJ will present it with, this deal or No Deal tomorrow. And No Deal means extension by Benn act.
Curious how the EU will react.

I think that both the UK and the EU are over-thinking Northern Ireland.  

In the greater scheme of things, they have agreed on issues of much greater economic importance than the Irish border.

There is a long term inexorable demographic trend towards a reunited island. Religion is gradually becoming less important in the younger strata of Irish society.  Ulster has more in common with the Republic than with the UK. These things move slowly in Ireland. It took from 1922 (Irish Free state)  to 1948 (Republic of Ireland) for the nation to gain full independence from the UK and its monarchy. At each step along the way , it might have felt like that was the status quo,  but the river was flowing downhill and full independence was inevitable.  The GFA will be followed over time by small incremental steps of greater co-operation. the 50-70 year old current leaders who lived through the Troubles cannot imagine a reunited island but in 25 years time, a new generation will be in charge. 

That's the future, but in the meantime, one group want a land border. The other group want a sea border. Rather than fight over which , Boris's government's response to say "If you cant agree on a border, then we will have both"  is not a totally insane....and I can see how that is a compromise than the EU should look at in a open-minded responsive manner.  Buried in there is probably a compromise that could work as long as egos dont get in the way and everyone avoids overthinking it. Stuff than freely flows between NI and RI can have a sea border . Other stuff can have some selective land based customs posts (that IMO will become irrelevant over time)

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I hope there is a special place in hell set aside for Arlene Foster.

In this letter 3 years ago dated August 2016 signed by her and the late Martin McGuinness, she begs the UK Government to not allow Brexit to become "an impediment to the movement of people, goods or services" across the Irish border.

Goes on to state the imperative to "retain as far as possible the ease with which they currently trade with EU member states and, also retain access to labour" with free and easy movement across the border etc etc.

McGuinness was dead just over 6 months later where he expressed his greatest fear was Brexit would unravel the peace process. He must be rolling in his grave.

 

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43 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

I think that both the UK and the EU are over-thinking Northern Ireland.  

In the greater scheme of things, they have agreed on issues of much greater economic importance than the Irish border.....

You are way off the mark, just like Boris.

 

 

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5 hours ago, mad said:

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1178968010511523841?s=21

"It's above my pay grade."

Boris Johnson responds to why he won't be speaking to Channel 4 News today, despite agreeing to interviews with other major broadcasters.

They are used to that. Farage banned them after they revealed he was shacked up in Banks house yet denying any contact with him.

Those outlets that were given interviews didn't let Boris of the hook. He kept glancing at his minders with a look of "get me out of here, blackball this lot too"

 

 

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

We are now in very much uncharted political territory. 

I think we were there already on 24th June 2016

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11 hours ago, LeoV said:

BJ plans ahead for 4 years max, the EU has to look for a longer time frame.

While we wait for Boris's big reveal.

Many are suggesting this is not a serious attempt but a “sham” & “pretence” designed to provoke EU rejection so Boris can prosecute the No Deal Brexit plan he has had since day one. I certainly subscribe to that.

However I'm starting to have second thoughts for these reasons.

1. There is only 30 days left. It is impossible to get anything up and running under a No Deal scenario by both the UK and the RoI to stop or even mitigate a border catastrophe. That would probably take at least 12 months and God knows what happens in between. This is amplified by London having to impose Direct Rule again to prosecute a No Deal. That is like printing "Enrol Now" posters for dissident Nationalist Paramilitaries just as occured in 1972.

2. It is reported by those in the know in the EU that when Brexit Secretary Steve Baker has been in Brussels he has been concentrating on articulating in great detail the impact of a No Deal on each country (but not mentioned impact on the UK LOL). Unless the UK had a desire to use that as leverage to do a deal, why bother doing that?

3. Arlene Foster is as dumb as a house brick but not completely stupid. It would be domestic electoral suicide to have made this pact with Boris if the intention was it was a sham directed at a No Deal.

4. Provided it is not presented to the EU as a  "take it or leave it" there might be enough there, particularly in Dublin and Munich who is it aimed at to blink and roll over and negotiate something. The bones are there for it to be akin to the Irish Only Backstop that covers all goods and services but with a different name and things local consent add ons like Stormont Lock or some derivative. A time limit however won't fly.

5. Is Boris really capable of ignoring the Benn Act and breaking the law? If the answer is no then he needs to either find a "workaround" or "challenge it legally". He appears to have the appetite for the latter. The former something like a No Extension Lock with any Deal where the EU agree to refuse any extension to A.50. The Benn Act then falls away leaving Westminister having to either accept Boris's deal or exit with no deal. 

6. I'm surprised no airplay yet on the Withdrawal Act 2018 and it's link to the Good Friday Agreement that many seem to have forgotton about. For instance; Section 10 of the 2018 Act creates a duty for the UK Government that they must not act incompatibly with the Northern Ireland Act 1998 (“NIA 1998”) and must have “due regard to the Joint Report from the negotiators of the EU and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations under Article 50”.

The relevant part of that report admits North-South cooperation relies to a significant extent on a common EU legal and policy framework. The report declares; “In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement”. Section 10(2) of the 2018 Act further purports to guarantee exactly the same thing being continued being North-South cooperation and prohibiting the creation of any border infrastructure after exit day which did not exist prior to exit day. 

Then to the Good Friday Agreement where it created the North-South Ministerial Council (“NSMC”), peopled with Ministers from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and tasked with decisions by agreement on policies and action at an all-island and cross-border level to be implemented with specific policy areas.

The NSMC while it hasn't sat since Stormont collapsed, it has over the past 20 years already supervised the growing interconnectedness of the two economies of Ireland on numerous fronts including infrastucture like energy, managing waterways, island of Ireland specific agri-food issues etc.

Thus, the continued operation of the NSMC and continued compliance with North-South cooperation I suspect will feature in Boris's solution (I also suspect he will infer the NSMC is his invention LOL) for the maintenance of a borderless ‘Irish space’. There will probably be some fudges like not "fixed infrastructure" but mobile/pop-up checks. That aside it will be blown up before it is built or something existing repurposed. The Irish Government will have to guarantee remaining outside Schengen to bolster UK border protection etc.

Note: Analysis of the 2018 Act taken from this Paper; Implications of the Withdrawal Act 2018 on Irish Border

Conclusion

The answer to a Deal providing it furnishes the feeling of "uniformity north to south" and for those in the north they can still feel "British" or "Irish" or "both" as they go about their daily lives, it has a chance of flying. While far from the perfection of a Nth Ireland Only Backstop and one border in the Irish Sea, the additional red lines now imposed by Boris make that an impossibility.

Note: It appears to have been forgotten that these new red lines of Boris's are contrary to the Tory Party 2017 election manifesto and agreements forged between the UK and RoI over Brexit, which he has not been held to account over even by critics within his own party or commentators. Thats weird.

However if this proposed Irish solution centres on trade issues it will be doomed to fail. It is interesting to note that in the course of 3 years debate industry north and south have never ever raised impediments to the supply chain as an issue, unlike at other UK border crossings. Their message has been clear cut and that is no traditional border checks/infrastructure full stop. 

I have zero time for Arlene Foster and the DUP and can't see why they are indulged as that flys in the face of London's independant oversight under the GFA. But to be fair they are taking a huge leap in faith with Boris as he could well be just leading them down the garden path to a No Deal and their electoral suicide, not to mention not being able to step outside their front doors.

While it may be uncomfortable for some the DUP are actually the only ones on planet earth that have the legitimacy to blow up Boris's plans if he departs from the script he has promised them.

If sanity doesn't prevail, then my guess is "positions vacant" advertisements for border control staff north and south will go unanswered unless they offer serious danger money.

Anyway until the detail surfaces and the rubber either hits the road, or has a blowout, I'm probably just blowing it out of my arse.

PS sorry about big font, not sure how I did that.

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The last time they handed over a colony after a time limit and dual political systems, it caused troubles.
IOW HongKong.

This plan is to solve the NI problem by extension for 4 years, and in the meanwhile the rest of the UK can go No Deal.
Shows you he is ready to throw NI under the bus, but very gently, and with the DUP veto almost guaranteed to come back in the UK fold.

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46 minutes ago, LeoV said:

and with the DUP veto almost guaranteed to come back in the UK fold.

DUP veto under a Stormont Lock??? Remember NI Assembly not first past the post and DUP only 28% seats level pegging with Sinn Fein and in recent times Alliance Party (like Lib Dems) eating into DUP and Sinn Fein using recent Council elections as a guide.

Then toss in the role of the North/South Ministerial  Council  (“NSMC”) , peopled with Ministers from NI and the RoI under GFA that I mention above if it gets a spot on the grid under Boris's plan.

images (22).png

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And does anyone knows if UK parliament even agrees with this plan ?
So the EU can accept, and parliament can refuse it later on.

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