Meat Wad

Brexit, WTF

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you only have to change the opinion of 4 % of the Leavers to switch to get a stalemate.
 

BTW

4252.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

You have more faith in the average IQ level of leaver than they deserve.

Agreed to some extent, it has become a religion, but it is much more than that. I was in Florida after the crash in 2008, with educated people coming out of the bushes where they were living to ask for food and money at the gas stations, whole streets of shops closed and boarded up, entire streets of houses for sale with no buyers. I've since spent time in the north west of England. It is just as bad, only it is cold and raining, and it's been going on for over a decade. These people rightly don't care about economic impact, because the economy already doesn't work for them. They don't care who is to blame, but they know something has to change, and this is all they have. They know they won't get any poorer, as they already have nothing. There are many other place in the UK in a similar state.

The tragedy is that the EU was the only organisation that has tried to help these areas, the poorest in western Europe.

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2 minutes ago, hump101 said:

I was in Florida after the crash in 2008...entire streets of houses for sale with no buyers.

Well actually there were buyers, then after a few years they became sellers. They now own large boats and play golf.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Well actually there were buyers, then after a few years they became sellers. They now own large boats and play golf.

Agreed that the situation in Florida did not last, but in the UK it has lasted, and still shows no signs of improving.

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9 minutes ago, LeoV said:


BTW

4252.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma

Hilarious. Does he try and paint that over every night on the way home from Westminster?

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14 minutes ago, LeoV said:

you only have to change the opinion of 4 % of the Leavers to switch to get a stalemate.
 

BTW

4252.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma

 

5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hilarious. Does he try and paint that over every night on the way home from Westminster?

:lol:

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12 minutes ago, LeoV said:

you only have to change the opinion of 4 % of the Leavers to switch to get a stalemate.
 

BTW

4252.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma

 

3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hilarious. Does he try and paint that over every night on the way home from Westminster?

"As it happens" doesn't sound like a very Moggy-esque turn of phrase. Not pompous enough. Is it genuine?

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1 minute ago, hump101 said:

 

"As it happens" doesn't sound like a very Moggy-esque turn of phrase. Not pompous enough. Is it genuine?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/16/billboard-campaign-reminds-voters-of-mps-brexit-promises

Quote

Billboard posters featuring quotes by Theresa May and Brexiter MPs have gone up around Dover as part of a “guerrilla advertising” campaign designed to embarrass pro-Brexit politicians using their own past claims and predictions.

A pro-remain group called Led By Donkeys has claimed responsibility for the posters, describing them as the latest in a “public information campaign to remind the public of the statements and promises made to us by our MPs”.

 

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"Led By Donkeys" ... a reference to the failed campaign in the Crimea, which famously featured the Charge of the Light Brigade

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Back to the EU, in Brussels the talk is that the big EU powers really think that they can not offer the UK what it wants without compromising the EU basic working.
And delay or extension will not work, UK only gets more in a mess the longer it takes. No majority for any deal in the UK after more then 2 yrs.
So expect preparations for a hard Brexit in the EU to accelerate.
Even port of Rotterdam has its Brexit section; some numbers given.
https://www.portofrotterdam.com/en/brexit

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Ineos, the UK chemical company, with a UK tax dodging Brexiteer owner, thinks the place to invest in the biggest chemical project in 20 yrs for the EU, costing billions will be best placed inside the EU. Antwerp is the lucky place.
https://www.ineos.com/news/ineos-group/ineos-announces-antwerp-as-the-location-for-new-petrochemical-investment/

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7 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Back to the EU, in Brussels the talk is that the big EU powers really think that they can not offer the UK what it wants without compromising the EU basic working.
And delay or extension will not work, UK only gets more in a mess the longer it takes. No majority for any deal in the UK after more then 2 yrs.
So expect preparations for a hard Brexit in the EU to accelerate.
Even port of Rotterdam has its Brexit section; some numbers given.
https://www.portofrotterdam.com/en/brexit

Maybe the EU should save their money?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/hammond-tells-business-leaders-no-deal-brexit-will-be-stopped

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No deal Brexit is the default of Article 50. So only a revoke or a deal can avoid that. So May will support revoke ? Can not believe it. But everything is possible in the UK...

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2 minutes ago, LeoV said:

No deal Brexit is the default of Article 50. So only a revoke or a deal can avoid that. So May will support revoke ? Can not believe it. But everything is possible in the UK...

The article says Hammond thinks May's, or indeed the governments, opinion is irrelevant, the majority of MP's will push it through.

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59 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

7 years before he became President

 Spooky

I think the Donegal wall was thought to keep Donald out :)

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4 minutes ago, LeoV said:

No deal Brexit is the default of Article 50. So only a revoke or a deal can avoid that. So May will support revoke ? Can not believe it. But everything is possible in the UK...

I suspect for the moment the third option will be implemented... postponement.

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10 minutes ago, hump101 said:

The article says Hammond thinks May's, or indeed the governments, opinion is irrelevant, the majority of MP's will push it through.

So that will be a revolt extraordinary. That hinges on the Remain Tories to get a majority

 

10 minutes ago, The Q said:

I suspect for the moment the third option will be implemented... postponement.

Only in case of new elections or referendum. Not to gain time for more talking.

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25 minutes ago, hump101 said:

From that article;

Hammond also told executives from major companies that article 50, which triggered the process of Britain leaving the EU, could be rescinded.

Attempting to reassure the concerns of business chiefs, he told them that a backbench bill which could force ministers to extend article 50 would act as a “sort of ultimate backstop if the work the government is doing in seeking to find a way forward fails to deliver”.


I am confused about rescinding and extending.

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41 minutes ago, rgeek said:

"Led By Donkeys" ... a reference to the failed campaign in the Crimea, which famously featured the Charge of the Light Brigade

Full term attributed to a Russian of the English at Crimea was "lions commanded by donkeys". Further and more prolific variations surfaced in World War 1. World War I sayings from Australians are actually recorded as "Digger Dialects" with many terms still used to this day by older Australians. Many are macabre humour to gloss over horrific things. For instance.

Annie  ‘Gentle Annie’ was their name for a big German Howitzer. ‘Up in Annie’s Room’, was facetious answer to questions as to the whereabouts of someone who cannot be found. 

An interesting read.

http://slll.cass.anu.edu.au/centres/andc/original-manuscript/all

Many Australian solders led by 3rd rate British Generals were slaughtered in WW1. Interestingly I don't recall an expression from the Digger Dialect to reflect that. Maybe while they thought the Generals were fuckwits the officers kept their mouths shut so not to damage the mens morale.

There are many Commonwealth bodies lying in the fields of Europe from two world wars because they came to help England out.

I don't think there is going to be a repeat when the cause now is suicide.

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French prime minister has activated their "no deal" program as of today. Lots of dosh for ports and airports plus emergency powers etc.

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Full term attributed to a Russian of the English at Crimes was "lions commanded by donkeys". Further and more prolific variations surfaced in World War 1. World War I sayings from Australians are actually recorded as "Digger Dialects" with many terms still used to this day by older Australians. Many are macabre humour to gloss over horrific things. For instance.

Annie  ‘Gentle Annie’ was their name for a big German Howitzer. ‘Up in Annie’s Room’, was facetious answer to questions as to the whereabouts of someone who cannot be found. 

An interesting read.

http://slll.cass.anu.edu.au/centres/andc/original-manuscript/all

Many Australian solders led by 3rd rate British Generals were slaughtered in WW1. Interestingly I don't recall an expression from the Digger Dialect to reflect that. Maybe while they thought the Generals were fuckwits the officers kept their mouths shut so not to damage the mens morale.

There are many Commonwealth bodies lying in the fields of Europe from two world wars because they came to help England out.

I don't think there is going to be a repeat when the cause now is suicide.

Never forget

.. and never forget what we are supposed to be never forgetting, despite the craven attempts are rebranding by ... yes the Tory party again

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Various EU states are coming out with committments to unilaterally protect the rights of UK citizens residing and/or working in their countries. I suspect most will follow. They have waited, hoping for a negotiated solution, and fed up with UK not offering same. They have maintained a common negotiating position, and now simply see this as the right thing to do regardless of British arrogance, naivety and suicidal tendencies.

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Talk in Brussels, the UK first have to get a deal approved in parliament, whatever that deal will be, before talking to the EU. If it is to far away from the Plan A that was downvoted, it will be not acceptable to the EU is the logic. The EU do not know what they can offer the UK any more without being disloyal to Ireland.

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21 minutes ago, cms said:

Various EU states are coming out with committments to unilaterally protect the rights of UK citizens residing and/or working in their countries. I suspect most will follow. They have waited, hoping for a negotiated solution, and fed up with UK not offering same. They have maintained a common negotiating position, and now simply see this as the right thing to do regardless of British arrogance, naivety and suicidal tendencies.

Image result for lemmings

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7 hours ago, rgeek said:

Tony Abbot clearly has no experience of exporting to/reimporting from Australia!

The customs barrier is a major pain in the hole and cost to doing business.

The Sydney Morning Herald have just bitch slapped him over that moronic shit he wrote. @Sailabout you should read this as at also addresses the some of your ideas about world commerce.

https://amp.smh.com.au/world/europe/you-are-embarrassing-tony-abbott-slapped-down-over-brexit-claim-20190117-p50rtw.html

 

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Talk in Brussels, the UK first have to get a deal approved in parliament, whatever that deal will be, before talking to the EU. If it is to far away from the Plan A that was downvoted, it will be not acceptable to the EU is the logic. The EU do not know what they can offer the UK any more without being disloyal to Ireland.

I think this is why Hammond is saying the MP's will rescind Article 50, because extending won't be possible.

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I agree with hump...the only option for the UK parliament is going to be revoke article 50. This is by far the best option economically for the UK but I doubt that the EU will forgive or forget the disruption the BREXIT fiasco has caused. The consequences for politics in the UK will be bad.

An earlier post talked about a wall between England Scotland. Since Hadrian's Wall already exists it just needs some repairs - it was originally a European project so maybe Farrage will go full Trump and demand that the EU pay for the rebuilding.

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Sydney Morning Herald have just bitch slapped him over that moronic shit he wrote. @Sailabout you should read this as at also addresses the some of your ideas about world commerce.

https://amp.smh.com.au/world/europe/you-are-embarrassing-tony-abbott-slapped-down-over-brexit-claim-20190117-p50rtw.html

 

I always said there will be some realignment of a few industries, double bad for sheep farmers, maybe go back to fishing?

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8 minutes ago, Expatriated said:

I agree with hump...the only option for the UK parliament is going to be revoke article 50. This is by far the best option economically for the UK but I doubt that the EU will forgive or forget the disruption the BREXIT fiasco has caused. The consequences for politics in the UK will be bad.

An earlier post talked about a wall between England Scotland. Since Hadrian's Wall already exists it just needs some repairs - it was originally a European project so maybe Farrage will go full Trump and demand that the EU pay for the rebuilding.

revoking is one route, do you think they will risk the backlash of the UK having a referendum ( a re election promise) then the gov saying oh well, we changed our mind after another election saying we will deliver it?

Move the date back is what I would bet on..


Where's Cameron?

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1 minute ago, Expatriated said:

I agree with hump...the only option for the UK parliament is going to be revoke article 50. This is by far the best option economically for the UK but I doubt that the EU will forgive or forget the disruption the BREXIT fiasco has caused. The consequences for politics in the UK will be bad.

An earlier post talked about a wall between England Scotland. Since Hadrian's Wall already exists it just needs some repairs - it was originally a European project so maybe Farrage will go full Trump and demand that the EU pay for the rebuilding.

If the EU is one thing it's pragmatic.

... Well they're already demanding that Ireland pay for the wall with the North.

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2 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

revoking is one route, do you think they will risk the backlash of the UK having a referendum ( a re election promise) then the gov saying oh well, we changed our mind after another election saying we will deliver it?
Where's Cameron?

That's why there's a push for another referendum I supose.

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4 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

revoking is one route, do you think they will risk the backlash of the UK having a referendum ( a re election promise) then the gov saying oh well, we changed our mind after another election saying we will deliver it?

Move the date back is what I would bet on..


Where's Cameron?

Hiding with his rich mates.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/look-david-cameron-has-got-his-trotters-up-again

 

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If Article 50 is revoked it will provoke an overdue shit storm within the UK about how the state is structured.

I mostly blame Tony Blair for the constitutional changes made when he was Prime Minister - changes needed to be made but he ducked the difficult problems completely. The House of Lords reform (100 years too late!) did not provide an effective reforming chamber and Scottish devolution did not address Scottish MP's voting on laws that do not apply to Scotland. Before the  Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 the Queen could have forced an election onto a deadlocked parliament.

Another referendum sounds good and will probably help to some degree but it will cause more uncertainty and may again produce a leave vote.

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7 minutes ago, Expatriated said:

Another referendum sounds good and will probably help to some degree but it will cause more uncertainty and may again produce a leave vote.

The majority of pro 2nd Referendum MP's have spoken to date on it having to refer to a specific Brexit Deal or Remain, not just Brexit or Remain

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In reading pro-Brexit propaganda, I perceive two themes.

1. That the EU infringes on UK sovereignty.

2. That the UK should receive a special treatment from the EU due to the exceptional importance of the UK to the EU.  (This reminds me of some in the US who consider the US to be the exceptional nation in the world.)

Perhaps some of this nationalism could be redirected by changing the way the EU presents itself in the UK.  A start would be to change the English name for the EU.  Perhaps there would be less resentment of the EU if it were called "The Dominion of Europe".

 

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1 hour ago, Expatriated said:

Another referendum sounds good and will probably help to some degree but it will cause more uncertainty and may again produce a leave vote.

 

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

The majority of pro 2nd Referendum MP's have spoken to date on it having to refer to a specific Brexit Deal or Remain, not just Brexit or Remain

I agree with Jack, there would have to be a very specific Brexit definition or Remain, as it should have been in the first referendum.

However, the Hammond article suggests that there is a parliamentary majority to revoke A50, but not for a second referendum, so we could end up with Brexit being cancelled and no voice for the electorate until the next general election, which presumably would have to be soon. That would be a very interesting election!! With the conservative support split, it is not clear whether they would stand again as a Brexit party, but Labour aren't much better organised even though their supporters are now predominantly remain. If Corbyn wasn't the leader, then Labour could win that election, but with him there I don't see any clear winner and we could have another hung parliament.

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I don't think a very specific single question could have been asked in the first referendum. Even now it's going to be difficult for the UK parliament to agree on a question for a second vote.

It would have been much better to avoid the referendum and making changes to UK law to make it easier to limit EU in the same way the German constitutional court can or even follow the Dutch model of more referendums on specific treaties (I'm thinking of the Dutch rejection of the Ukraine trade deal that every other EU country accepted.)

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3 hours ago, Expatriated said:

 

An earlier post talked about a wall between England Scotland. Since Hadrian's Wall already exists it just needs some repairs - it was originally a European project so maybe Farrage will go full Trump and demand that the EU pay for the rebuilding.

Since Newcastle is north of the wall I don't think they will agree... 

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

The USA's response is America First. ... They wanted to become a leading oil exporter, (which they have over 3 administration's) even if to the detriment of the environment. Etc etc.

 

Currently, both the US and the UK currently share the same trait of sending unpredictable, illogical, and contradictory signals to the rest of the world, causing chaos and confusion.

The difference is that the US seems to be making it work in some weird and vaguely disturbing way.    Example #1 : The tweets and actions on trade from US are so unpredictable  and so dangerously  crazy that China is on the verge of capitulating. To the complete astonishment of many observers (including myself), the US is going to win the first round of the Trade War.   Example #2 of complete confusing messages. Trump was expected to support the US oil and energy industry. Instead he has been urging Saudi Arabia to pump more oil and has become a vigorous proponent of low oil prices. He succeeded in helping the oil price fall from $75 to $55 while we watched on in astonishment as the US Oil services sector collapsed to levels below the recession of 2008/9!! (Is he a closet environmentalist?)  Example #3.  He gives the outward impression of not understanding fiscal policy but yet has presided over one of the most comprehensive reforms of corporation tax in 5 decades removing hundreds or loopholes and inefficiencies.....and also removing tax breaks for the wealthy in terms of offsetting our high-end real estate taxes.    It is without a doubt the most unpredictable  administration in our lifetime .

The UK on the other hand is unpredictable and it is not working at all well for them,

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^^

1. A large portion of the US government is shutdown.

2. US allies are dismayed by a series of moves that have mainly benefited Russia.

3. The US trade deficit has risen to record levels.

4. The rate of increase of the US national debt has accelerated.

The US is not winning.

 

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Talk between Brussel journalists, EU proposed an extension plan. May never answered, that is very rude. Now they are pissed, they will still be talking, but will not make any proposals any more , but prepare for the worst. Their opinion is that May and friends are really bad in negotiations.

Can not find anywhere the claim; EU proposed a plan, but for the rest that May is not he best dealmaker;
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-waits-for-may-to-reach-out-to-her-opponents/

And in the meantime for the EU Brexit is not the biggest deal going on; a stick to whip countries in line. Farage was against. 
https://www.politico.eu/article/budget-hungary-poland-rule-of-law-european-parliament-backs-plan-to-link-eu-funds/

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1 hour ago, captain_crunch said:

In reading pro-Brexit propaganda, I perceive two themes.

1. That the EU infringes on UK sovereignty.

2. That the UK should receive a special treatment from the EU due to the exceptional importance of the UK to the EU.  (This reminds me of some in the US who consider the US to be the exceptional nation in the world.)

Perhaps some of this nationalism could be redirected by changing the way the EU presents itself in the UK.  A start would be to change the English name for the EU.  Perhaps there would be less resentment of the EU if it were called "The Dominion of Europe".

 

I think that better names which would have a better resonance with UK voters would be European Free Trade Association.....which could be shortened to EFTA  or perhaps something like European Economic Area or EEA for short.

 

Oh Wait!

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1 minute ago, captain_crunch said:

^^

1. A large portion of the US government is shutdown.

2. US allies are dismayed by a series of moves that have mainly benefited Russia.

3. The US trade deficit has risen to record levels.

4. The rate of increase of the US national debt has accelerated.

The US is not winning.

 

Nobody said anything about winning in the broad sense.  Im certainly not portraying the USA as a happy place at the moment. Far from it.

I was simply contrasting how unpredictability in trade discussions is working in different ways.  Right or left of the political spectrum, we have to acknowledge that the US is going to emerge with better trade terms and better Intellectual property protection than it had before the trade war started. The US is going to have an initial victory in the first battle of the trade war.  I question whether the victory is worth the cost.....the global economy is slowing quite markedly as a result of the trade war.....and I question what the long term outcome will be.....but I cannot deny that the US is emerging with terms that I never thought they would obtain 18 months ago.

In contrast I would not have forecast the complete failure of the UK to obtain Brexit terms that are acceptable for the British parliament 18 months ago.

As a side remark, I pointed out to Jack that far from helping US oil exports and the growth of the US domestic oil industry, Trump has done a lot to hinder it.

Whatever our political views, we agree on one thing...the US administration is highly unpredictable.  Even the shutdown came about because an 11th hour reversal.  

Im a very fact based analyst.

 

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Jonathan Pie is not way off the mark.  Did i read disenfranchised somewhere above :-)

 

 

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Abbot article;

"Australia and the EU sell goods and services to one another," he said. "The UK and EU make things together. "

Yep a point that makes a simple look into Brexit impossible.

Rees Mogg know something is very dangerious with a hard Brexit but can not discuss it;

 

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Yeah, this sounds really good news!! WTF, deploy the military for democracy!!? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-brexit-army-reserve-prepare-williamson-ta-territorials-a8732506.html

Quote

In a parliamentary statement, defence minister Mark Lancaster said: “A new order has been made under section 56(1B) of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 to enable reservists to be called into permanent service in support of the [government’s] contingency planning for a no-deal EU exit scenario.

 
Quote

The troops will initially be deployed for one year, starting from 10 February.

 

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1 hour ago, hump101 said:

 

I agree with Jack, there would have to be a very specific Brexit definition or Remain, as it should have been in the first referendum.

However, the Hammond article suggests that there is a parliamentary majority to revoke A50, but not for a second referendum, so we could end up with Brexit being cancelled and no voice for the electorate until the next general election, which presumably would have to be soon. That would be a very interesting election!! With the conservative support split, it is not clear whether they would stand again as a Brexit party, but Labour aren't much better organised even though their supporters are now predominantly remain. If Corbyn wasn't the leader, then Labour could win that election, but with him there I don't see any clear winner and we could have another hung parliament.

Exactly, it’s a one horse race, just with 2 donkeys instead. 

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China was already moving on intellectual property as they have now started creating innovation and content that is worth protecting themselves.

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Many Australian solders led by 3rd rate British Generals were slaughtered in WW1. Interestingly I don't recall an expression from the Digger Dialect to reflect that. Maybe while they thought the Generals were fuckwits the officers kept their mouths shut so not to damage the mens morale.

At least we removed the ability of British military to court-martial our troops in WW1. Had to be done by Australians - if they so chose. A lesson we learned from the Boer War.

The NZ troops weren't so fortunate. There's at least one case where Aussie troops broke out a bunch of Kiwis undergoing punishment by the Brits and the Aussie leadership told the Brits to fuck off and die when they demanded that the Aussie troops be punished. 

FKT

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10 hours ago, rgeek said:

That's why there's a push for another referendum I supose.

then it will be best of 3?

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6 hours ago, LeoV said:

Abbot article;

"Australia and the EU sell goods and services to one another," he said. "The UK and EU make things together. "

Yep a point that makes a simple look into Brexit impossible.

Rees Mogg know something is very dangerious with a hard Brexit but can not discuss it;

 

 

I am always impressed by Jacob Rees-Mogg's debating ability.  Of course, it is possible to win a debate and still be wrong.

 

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On 1/15/2019 at 5:08 PM, KC375 said:

That’s like asking a comedian to do a parody of parody...the Brexit saga is already beyond implausible asking for a parody of it would be like giving Arthur Herbert Fonzeralli a shark to carry in a back pack while he jumps the shark...a shark too far

 

 

hd_winkler_waterskis-h_2018.jpg

 

 

 

 

 Emily Litella (Gilda Radner) on Brexit, "Never mind."

Actually revoking the article and having a general election might be a reasonable step.

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23 minutes ago, hoppy said:

...

Is May legally bound to going through with the brexit?

...

 

Per the Guardian:

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

An exception was the 2011 referendum on changing the electoral system to alternative vote, where the relevant legislation obligated the government to change the law to reflect a “yes” vote had that occurred. No such provision was contained within the EU referendum legislation.

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1 hour ago, captain_crunch said:

 

I am always impressed by Jacob Rees-Mogg's masturbating ability.  Of course, it is possible to win that debate but still be the dick.

 

FFI

Someone needs a punch in the guts.

 

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

Is May legally bound to going through with the brexit?

If not, she should call off the brexit and then go to an election. If she needs a vote in Parliament, table a bill that cans brexit and calls an election. Crew another referendum, because people will vote stay.

Maybe go to the start of the thread, pick up a newspaper or whatever before posing nonsense, or please at least knowledgeable nonsense to take seriously enough to comment upon.

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What is really mindblowing to me right now, is that all the UK MPs and the government are debating, arguing and negotiating on what the Brexit deal should be, being COMPLETELY oblivious to the fact that the negotiation is not within themselves, but with the EU! And that negotiation already took place, and this is what May presented.

They can decide whatever they want within themselves, but if May comes back with a "new deal" to the EU; the reply might be/ most likely will be a polite:

No

while the EU representative will be bitting their tongue really hard, not to answer less politely:

Go fuck yourself

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On 1/17/2019 at 7:57 AM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Except that *in theory* those MP's are representatives of their constituents *first* and Party members second. They're actually NOT supposed to be so many dummies voting at the command of the leader and the Whips. If that were the case, there's no need for them to be there at all. So your analogy with a ship's captain & mutiny fails.

 

On 1/17/2019 at 1:28 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Fah my post was to someone saying this mess was about party politics, when clearly it isn't with the Rees Mogg 100 running amuck. My remedy for May to start keel-hauling a few rebels certainly flys in the face of the individual electoral represention you mention.

Fah maybe this is the core issue being the Westminster system can't cope with the whole problem here....there are simply too many groups that want too many different things. The system itself has simply shat itself.

 

 

23 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I suspect that you are right. We're finally seeing a clash between 'direct' democracy (referendum) and representative democracy as interpreted by a Party structure. And, in the case of the UK, for the first (??) time.

Fah you're probably think I'm into humping each other's leg repeating this, but it seems The Times might be reading this thread for inspiration. I would linky it but pay walled.

In essence The Times go one step further about this logjam and MP's forming into too many groups and coming up with too many different things under the current Westminster system of respecting individual representation, not in the past acting like sheep controlled by the party.

They do this by naming and shaming MP's who firstly are not debating but providing wooden speeches with short soundbites to put on their electoral social media accounts. They identified former Brexit Secretary David Davis and Tory MP Bernard Jenkins queued up outside on the lawn for the TV cameras to parade their denial of a no deal Brexit doing any damage, simply to extend their personal brands.

Secondly the opposite being MP's who have complained about being vote fodder at the behest of whips in the past, now rising to the occasion to take on responsibilty their party leaders won't through paralysis or obstinance. Labours Yvette Cooper once dull as as a doormat is now a ministerial interrogator reducing the illinformed to silence. Hilary Benn and Tories Dominic Ben grey people of the past are now forcefull speakers. These are the ones who are abrest the complications from fish packing to car parts.

Finally a list of MP's who are not even across the most basic facts you can get from Wikipedia, but put gobblygook into the public arena including their constituency.

For instance Dan Henman of Vote Leave saying nobody is talking about threatening the UK's current place in a single market and like Boris Johnson saying he would vote to stay in that market? Similarly Owen Paterson championing Leave for the referendum now says we can participate in a single market without being saddled with the EU? Davis the former Brexit Secretary saying with no deal the UK could negotiate trade agreements during the 21 months transition? Stunning idiocy when when there is no transition period without a deal. Nadine Dorries another prominent Leaver rejecting May's deal on the grounds it leaves the UK with no voice or votes in the EU Parliament? What did she fucking think leaving meant?

Raab admitting he didn't know much trade went through Dover and Calais? Bridgeman saying Brits would have rights to a Irish passport? That was a good one but maybe the best is reserved for Transport Secretary Chris Grayling having no idea that with no deal, UK road hauliers would have no right to drive through Europe?

These are people wanting the UK and their constituents to take them seriously. Fuck me dead.

Maybe I was wrong about the leaders keel-hauling a few rebels to get the message through about party unity. Maybe leaders included they should all be keel-hauled and then we only have to listen to those who can hold their breath the longest?

Second thoughts can that idea. Rees Mogg who can talk underwater would end up as PM.

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52 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I'm going with KC's reply rather than your drivel

Your in luck. @KC375 has just joined the priesthood and is looking to be annointed the "Saint for the Lazy & No Idea". He will graciously look after you pending that.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe go to the start of the thread, pick up a newspaper or whatever before posing nonsense, or please at least knowledgeable nonsense to take seriously enough to comment upon.

Jeez Jack, KC is right - the Brexit vote was, in fact, advisory - non-binding legally. 

May did not have to pick up the gauntlet of her loony Reichista cohorts  - but she did. 

And now they want Labor to pull their irons out of the fire. Labor was smart to say that they wouldn't even talk unless a "hard" Brexit was off the table, so now the options appear to be stay with the EU, or go with May's deal. 

(Shakey metaphor alert.) 

And the situation may be a bit similar to the US in 2008-09 early in the meltdown. The GOPPERS needed Dem support for the monster bank (not people) bailout, and were ever so statesmanlike in asking. Then they IMMEDIATELY blamed the Dems for the excesses, and of course got away with it.  

 

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On 1/17/2019 at 12:11 PM, jack_sparrow said:

The UK and the US (and some other countries) share an identical issue being having large slabs of a population feeling disenfranchised economically and socially and perceptions that immigration is partly to blame.

The USA's response is America First. Whether their policy response is right or wrong is irrelevant. For instance the government want to boost business confidence, investment and productivity. They wanted to become a leading oil exporter, (which they have over 3 administration's) even if to the detriment of the environment. Etc etc.On the  other hand the Brexiteers response  on behalf of the UK is all they have to do is just leave the EU. No heavy lifting required. No mention is made of productivity or that business confidence and investment has plumeted since the Referendum....

Brexit is just a lazy cop out painted in slogans that exacerbates the position of the disenfranchised who voted for it. I suspect many Leavers are now starting to understand that.

Mambo my intention was to identify two different national responses to the same disenfranchised issue, and clearly not delve into the result. However as you have with regard to oil & gas I will and where I believe you are clearly wrong.

12 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

Currently, both the US and the UK currently share the same trait of sending unpredictable, illogical, and contradictory signals to the rest of the world, causing chaos and confusion.

The difference is that the US seems to be making it work in some weird and vaguely disturbing way.    Example #1 : The tweets and actions on trade from US are so unpredictable  and so dangerously  crazy that China is on the verge of capitulating. To the complete astonishment of many observers (including myself), the US is going to win the first round of the Trade War.   Example #2 of complete confusing messages. Trump was expected to support the US oil and energy industry. Instead he has been urging Saudi Arabia to pump more oil and has become a vigorous proponent of low oil prices. He succeeded in helping the oil price fall from $75 to $55 while we watched on in astonishment as the US Oil services sector collapsed to levels below the recession of 2008/9!! (Is he a closet environmentalist?)  Example #3.  He gives the outward impression of not understanding fiscal policy but yet has presided over one of the most comprehensive reforms of corporation tax in 5 decades removing hundreds or loopholes and inefficiencies.....and also removing tax breaks for the wealthy in terms of offsetting our high-end real estate taxes.    It is without a doubt the most unpredictable  administration in our lifetime .

The UK on the other hand is unpredictable and it is not working at all well for them,

 

11 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

Nobody said anything about winning in the broad sense.  Im certainly not portraying the USA as a happy place at the moment. Far from it...

As a side remark, I pointed out to Jack that far from helping US oil exports and the growth of the US domestic oil industry, Trump has done a lot to hinder it...

Im a very fact based analyst.

 

The facts.

First Trump was not responsible for the most recent drops in Oil prices in fact for the first he wasn't even President. 

The price of oil plumetted before his time to around USD$40/barrel by OPEC (increasing supply) looking to put US frackers out of business on account at the time that was the "fracking breakeven price". The reason being courtesy of "fracking'' the US was on a elevator ride to being the world's top oil producer by country ahead of Saudia Arabia and OPEC friendly Russia. The US has doubled production since 2012 and achieved top dog status mid last year. The irony of that OPEC policy approach forced US frackers to reduce their costs, principaly from instead of putting product in a truck etc they started building pipelines and improving international export infrastucture. Things like converting what we're import facilities to export facilities has actually occured.

That production breakeven point now sits today approaching USD$30/barrel. The US also were not too fussed about this OPEC policy approach knowing OPEC and OPEC friendly Russia couldn't sustain a low price for long as they would quickly go broke. Didn't matter whether it was rich OPEC countries, they are spending money on shit like it is going out of fashion, the poorer ones like busted Iran rebuilding economies or like Russia and Venezuela simply fucked with oil being their principal source of external revenue. The bit that rankles environmentalists is this US policy approach of encouraging more "fracking" came from their own "Blue" Democratic President. Now enter a "Red" Republican President Trump 

The price of oil spiked back up to around USD$80 earlier last year as OPEC constrained production and the US was still getting their supply capability rolling, plus US sanctions were placed on output by Iran. Domestically this price increase was hurting middle America and the disenfranchised Trump faithful the greatest.

Then the price of crude oil fell off a cliff late last year. The price in one month dropped around a third to USD$50/barrel at one point.

How did this occur? The answer is fate and Trump the negotiator.

Firstly weaker global economic growth than forecast. With the US and OPEC not knowing this in advance to US Iran sanctions biting the US/Trump convinced Saudia Arabia to increase production. Those sanctions were then subsequently watered down via cross country stuff with other OPEC producers reliant upon the US.

What has occured is the strength of global production has overwhelmed demand. Saudi Arabia is really pissed about acceding to the Donald's request to up supply. He actually out snookered them at the game of oil price control they invented. Little wonder the Trump administration has signalled a willingness to look past the killing of a journalist to maintain Saudi relations.

Mambo you say the "Oil services sector collapsed to levels below the recession of 2008/9!! (Is he a closet environmentalist?)" 

You say services sector, not oil production or export that have never been higher in nearly 50 years. The services sector you speak of is is slowing after a record run of exploration and building to achieve production so it naturally falls off. The pipeline and export infrastructure building likewise has slowed. There has also been a bit of a bite on new exploration on public lands by way of regulation. They not Trump are the reasons for that slowdown in that sector.

The Breakeven price of around $30 / barrel today puts the oil business in the US in a very enviable spot. Gas is in a very similar position. They have the room now to pull the policy levers between domestic supply and pricing and trade balance.

To make the Brexit comparison and not drift. 

Ordinarily you would expect the "anti-frack" sentiment in the UK to increase in line with dropping energy pricing. In other words we don't need Fracked Gas if their "going after Ineos" message is to have a greater audience. However remember in the UK "fracking" is largely for gas not oil. In theory the UK has probably one of the world's best gas infrastucture being both piped and import LNG infrastructure, the latter with under capacity. However supply is going to come at a cost post Brexit and downwards pressure on gas pricing virtually non existent.

So my guess any Leavers in the crowd going after "Ineos" and the "AC UK Team" are actually shooting themselves in the foot.

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Jeez Jack, KC is righ

He is. Reread, my comments are not directed at KC, only Hoppy.

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6 hours ago, captain_crunch said:

 

I am always impressed by Jacob Rees-Mogg's debating ability.  Of course, it is possible to win a debate and still be wrong.

 

Completely ducked the issue of sterling dropping through the floor wiping out any to the customer benefit from reducing import tariffs with a theoretical answer with no factual backup. Mumbled his way through it actually.

Lost the debate utterly at that point.

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20 hours ago, hump101 said:

Agreed to some extent, it has become a religion, but it is much more than that. I was in Florida after the crash in 2008, with educated people coming out of the bushes where they were living to ask for food and money at the gas stations, whole streets of shops closed and boarded up, entire streets of houses for sale with no buyers. I've since spent time in the north west of England. It is just as bad, only it is cold and raining, and it's been going on for over a decade. These people rightly don't care about economic impact, because the economy already doesn't work for them. They don't care who is to blame, but they know something has to change, and this is all they have. They know they won't get any poorer, as they already have nothing. There are many other place in the UK in a similar state.

The tragedy is that the EU was the only organization that has tried to help these areas, the poorest in western Europe. 

Most of that was the slow demise of old industries and people staying with the family unit as they could due to welfare so not moving, which will accelerate the towns death but you have to realize why the town was built in the first place.

I could see old cities outside London get revamped as they joined the commuter belt, revitalized the old  towns and raised property prices but there is a limit to that.

IMHO most of the UK looks old and broken down less the square mile and a few inner London boroughs

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42 minutes ago, rgeek said:

 

Completely ducked the issue of sterling dropping through the floor wiping out any to the customer benefit from reducing import tariffs with a theoretical answer with no factual backup. Mumbled his way through it actually.

Lost the debate utterly at that point.

both missed the issue that a huge amount of goods enter the EU at zero to fill various quota then some tariffs apply, some very high.
You cant have a conversation about tariffs without talking about quota if you have quotas, lots of countries dont.
Thats what takes the time or setup rather than have zero to flood your market the EU works out the difference between their demand and internal supply and thats the quota, plus all the quality stuff.
its always interesting to see whether imports meet or exceed the quota

if the UK leaves in a hard Brexit the EU might need to lower some quota, which might give the UK some leverage to get the foreign suppliers to reciprocate if they choose to take those goods?

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7 hours ago, hoppy said:

I'm starting to think that the British couldn't even organise a root in an EU brothel. No wonder British lad wander the streets of Amsterdam drunk, not enough Dutch courage.

Is May legally bound to going through with the brexit?

If not, she should call off the brexit and then go to an election. If she needs a vote in Parliament, table a bill that cans brexit and calls an election. Crew another referendum, because people will vote stay.

One mistake the Tory's made was to not make the Brexit planning and EU negotiation free of party politics with brexit believing representatives from all parties and industry representing British interests. If the best they could negotiate is the current deal, then no one is tared by the bad deal other than the Brexiteers 

 

I listened to a EU mp say May came over with her plan to get us( the EU ) to agree, he said therefore she missed the opportunity to gain  in some areas as she never asked us what was on offer or negotiable?

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43 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Most of that was the slow demise of old industries and people staying with the family unit as they could due to welfare so not moving, which will accelerate the towns death but you have to realize why the town was built in the first place.

I could see old cities outside London get revamped as they joined the commuter belt, revitalized the old  towns and raised property prices but there is a limit to that.

IMHO most of the UK looks old and broken down less the square mile and a few inner London boroughs

Sail you are spot on where @hump101 drew a connection between the UK and Florida post the GFC. Though in humps defence he was referencing another dimension being economic downturn doesn't necessarily discriminate between the well off and not so well off.

However your generalisation that most of the UK is broken outside say the urbanised  SE is a bit harsh. There are many areas of the UK that have successfully recovered from the Thatcher years immediately post the UK entering the EU where nationalised, unproductive and or highly unionised industries were shown the door to accommodate the UK being in the one market with the EU and had to be competitive or die. Say a large Airbus factory today in once a crapped out part of Wales comes to mind.

Speaking of nationalisation and the views of Corbyn on this subject, this amusing encounter between Churchill and socialist Prime Minister Clement Attlee in the Members’ urinal at the House of Commons, circa 1951 comes to mind. Attlee is standing over the trough as Churchill enters on the same mission.

Observing Attlee, Churchill shuffles as far away as possible.

Attlee: “Feeling standoffish today, are we, Winston?”

Churchill: “That’s right. Every time you see something big you want to nationalise it.”

attlee_churchill.jpg

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Agree with both Sail and Jack above, I should have clarified that I was not suggesting that the cause of Florida's deprivation and that in the UK regions is the same, just comparing the magnitude of suffering to provide context for leave voting.

As an aside, my first job was in the north west UK in the Thatcher years, and it was boom time thanks to cost-plus contracts but was so obvious that it couldn't last. The only way to raise profit was to raise cost, so management happily allowed the unions to bring productivity to near zero, so they got the credit and the unions the blame. The unions were too rights-focused to realise they were being played, and once cost-plus was stopped the workforce was reduced by 71%.

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You may enjoy laughing at the attached letter from the RMT union to Brittany Ferries. BF employ 100% French crew whereas P&O, Irish Ferries DFDS etc employ people on low wages from other countries. All BF ships are French registered unlike the others. The only UK personnel on a BF ship are sometimes the pianist, the magician and the singers ...

RMT letter to BF.pdf

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1 hour ago, Sailabout said:

IMHO most of the UK looks old and broken down less the square mile and a few inner London boroughs

I realize it is old news but still baffled by the below and sort of ties in with the above comments.

What I cannot get my head round is that certain areas in the UK relied and benefited big time from EU cash back injections.  Most if not all public construction works, buildings, roads, universities and so on with big bill boards saying 'Only made possible by investment grants from EU', flags flying, etc. were realized with cash from the EU. That money was allocated by the EU to develop poorer regions ..... Not Westminster.

My neck of the woods in UK https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-second-poorest-region-northern-617199

Cornwall voted out and the numpties think that the Westminster cavalry will come over the hill with a cart load of dosh..... really?? are they blind, deaf & retarded?

The EU allocates the funds to each European nation to support sustainable economic development and reduce regional wealth disparities - it’s their way of trying to give a boost to the poorest parts of the continent.

But Steve Double, the Brexit-supporting MP for St Austell and Newquay, has previously joined two other Cornwall MPs in insisting that their constituents wouldn't lose out. "The UK will be able to use the money we currently send to the EU each year to cover any funding withdrawn by the EU," Mr Double said.

Hmmm .... I thought that was going to the NHS.

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23 minutes ago, cms said:

You may enjoy laughing at the attached letter from the RMT union to Brittany Ferries ..........

In true SA fashion ............  you can't make this sh*t up :lol:

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3 hours ago, hoppy said:

So please explain how my comments are nonsense???

You just love to have a go at me just for the sake of it. You fucking troll.

Hoppy read my reply to your question and then your lazy unsubstainated hypothesis. To remind you, that exchange was this;

8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe go to the start of the thread, pick up a newspaper or whatever before posing nonsense, or please at least knowledgeable nonsense to take seriously enough to comment upon.

 

7 hours ago, hoppy said:

I'm going with KC's reply rather than your drivel

 

6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Your in luck. @KC375 has just joined the priesthood and is looking to be annointed the "Saint for the Lazy & No Idea". He will graciously look after you pending that.

Now Hoppy to your response being "You just love to have a go at me just for the sake of it. You fucking troll."

First Hoppy you clearly have no idea what a troll is. So to help you and god knows why I'm doing this, I must have had a generousity of spirit injection today and not noticed.

A 'Troll' is someone that starts arguments or upsets people by posting off-topic or extraneous messages. Their goal is to cause people to get emotional and to harass. The word comes from a lazy method of fishing.

By any objective assessment my replies above were not 'fishing' for anything other than initially to encourage you to at least get off your arse and go read. No argument was posed to your hypothesis, I couldn't be bothered, @KC375 made the effort. If you have gotten emotionally distressed about my request, that is your problem. If I'm trolling you then you clearly haven't you noticed I steer clear of most threads where you are very active, despite my interest? Maybe you should take the same approach instead of posting one off wonders where I am active?

However I will not shy away from you possibly feeling harassed. That unfortunately stems from my low acceptance threshold for people either too lazy to back up an opinion, maybe have no experience with the subject matter to hand, maybe they are interlectually impaired or just suffer from Tourette's. I don't know at first encounter. So realising that and knowing I don't have a mortgage on intelligence and or experience I try where ever possible to use the 3 strikes rule. After that I admit I do get very rude and don't take prisoners.

Some more wise than I just ignore them. I, maybe unfortunately, are the view that high level challenge and debate is what makes a thread both interesting and informative. I'm not singleing anyone out but by way of example @LeoV a boatbuilder from the Netherlands has probably put more thought to this Brexit issue and is across the detail more than 99% of the UK population. I and many others here I'm sure are greatfull for that valuable insight.

So you don't feel singled out, my posts in just this thread by way of example. @Sailabout started posting nonsense about the UK's ability to secure trade agreements post Brexit either immediately no agreement or in a 21 month transition window with agreement. Those posts were nonsense. At the beginning Sail probably felt like you harassed but I plugged away. Many here probably thought I was wasting my breath. The upshot of that or other contributers taking him to task is he is now posting meaningful stuff on that same subject. He just posted a few places up thread accordingly. That is not to say Sails view is right or wrong, but it is representative of someone now putting a lot of thought behind their opinion and should be respected accordingly. Wouldn't you like to be treated accordingly?

To complete this response on you feeling harassed in case you don't understand or appreciate these comments and thinking why you haven't been afforded 3 strikes. Unfortunately we both come with history to this Brexit thread. In my mind on those threads I do enjoy, you are now on about strike 3406. You have played this "troll' card before. The most memorable was when for about a week, I think the VOR thread, you attempted to bracket me with Randumb, complete with memes. It stopped when other contributors told you to fuck off.

I genuinely hope this helpful to you. I don't know if me bothering to write this self serving drivel was on account of that unknown injection of generousity I got today? Maybe it was you just calling my posts drivel that set this off, I don't know.

Anyway cheers and please don't respond, it will lead nowhere. My apologies to all having to sit though this drivel. Maybe I should lower my bar for what constitutes acceptable online contributions on serious subjects.

 

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45 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

I realize it is old news but still baffled by the below and sort of ties in with the above comments.

What I cannot get my head round is that certain areas in the UK relied and benefited big time from EU cash back injections.  Most if not all public construction works, buildings, roads, universities and so on with big bill boards saying 'Only made possible by investment grants from EU', flags flying, etc. were realized with cash from the EU. That money was allocated by the EU to develop poorer regions ..... Not Westminster.

My neck of the woods in UK https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-second-poorest-region-northern-617199

Cornwall voted out and the numpties think that the Westminster cavalry will come over the hill with a cart load of dosh..... really?? are they blind, deaf & retarded?

The EU allocates the funds to each European nation to support sustainable economic development and reduce regional wealth disparities - it’s their way of trying to give a boost to the poorest parts of the continent.

But Steve Double, the Brexit-supporting MP for St Austell and Newquay, has previously joined two other Cornwall MPs in insisting that their constituents wouldn't lose out. "The UK will be able to use the money we currently send to the EU each year to cover any funding withdrawn by the EU," Mr Double said.

Hmmm .... I thought that was going to the NHS.

hard to work out the money part as the EU doesnt do accounting and the ECB dumps billions into money expansion, although tapering that off but its not free cash, although at least it does get spent on infrastructure so there is some payback and not on asset inflation.
Driven on a nice road in Spain lately?

then again

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6539184/EU-wastes-millions-on-bizarre-projects.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11296782/EU-wastes-airport-funding-worth-1bn.html

here's a good read
https://euobserver.com/search?query=NER300

 

 

 

 

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Sorry about the downvote above, Mad. Was using my wife's Ipad without my reading glasses and poked the wrong icon.......

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6 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

hard to work out the money part as the EU doesnt do accounting and the ECB dumps billions into money expansion, although tapering that off but its not free cash, although at least it does get spent on infrastructure so there is some payback and not on asset inflation.
Driven on a nice road in Spain lately?

Sail,  I agreed with you above but now you swing the other way again.

I don't give a monkey's what Spain does or doesn't do with EU investment/development funds.  I don't live there and wouldn't want to.

And yes, I'm driving on some very nice new, wide dual carriage ways in Cornwall and the billboards are still up.

My point is that if people here think that Westminster will match previous EU funding pound for pound after 29th March they're on crack!

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3 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

Sail,  I agreed with you above but now you swing the other way again.

I don't give a monkey's what Spain does or doesn't do with EU investment/development funds.  I don't live there and wouldn't want to.

And yes, I'm driving on some very nice new, wide dual carriage ways in Cornwall and the billboards are still up.

My point is that if people here think that Westminster will match previous EU funding pound for pound after 29th March they're on crack!

yes agreed, what I am saying is its not possible to work out whether you are a net contributor or expense due to all the EU money that goes everywhere in your country.
I dont see a spreadsheet with those totals but yes the gov wont be spending like the EU does but was that your money or not to start with?

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17 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

I think that better names which would have a better resonance with UK voters would be European Free Trade Association.....which could be shortened to EFTA  or perhaps something like European Economic Area or EEA for short.

 

Involves free movement of labour which crosses one of May's red lines.

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3 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

yes agreed, what I am saying is its not possible to work out whether you are a net contributor or expense due to all the EU money that goes everywhere in your country.
I dont see a spreadsheet with those totals but yes the gov wont be spending like the EU does but was that your money or not to start with?

It is entirely possible and the analysis exists.

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Just now, dogwatch said:

Involves free movement of labour which crosses one of May's red lines.

Merkels africa/middle east to UK super highways not just a line

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24 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

It is entirely possible and the analysis exists.

love to see it

I read that the UK Treasury numbers only include EU funds that go the the UK gov to manage and thats both ways, i.e.UK keeps 20% of tariffs it collects at its ports etc.
What about the rest were they are direct pay or whatever they do?
I wonder how big that is so how far does it sway the numbers
It must be a huge spreadsheet

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36 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

And yes, I'm driving on some very nice new, wide dual carriage ways in Cornwall and the billboards are still up.

My point is that if people here think that Westminster will match previous EU funding pound for pound after 29th March they're on crack!

Laser if you're driving now down a Cornwall carriageway thinking about who in the UK is on the most crack?

By carriageway association, my guess is first cab off the rank in the Crack department is the Transport Secretary Chris Grayling.

A Brexiteer, but having no fucking clue that with a Brexit No Deal, UK road hauliers will have no automatic right to drive through Europe from the end of March?

You can't make this shit up.

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27 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

It is entirely possible and the analysis exists.

 

25 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

love to see it

https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-european-commission/service-standards-and-principles/transparency/funding-recipients_en

Information available

  • who receives the funds
  • subject, i.e., the purpose of the expenditure 
  • where the beneficiary is located
  • amount and type of expenditure
  • which responsible department awarded the funding 
  • which part of the EU budget it comes from 
  • which year the amount was booked in the accounts
Edited by hump101
list of information available

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Sail if you're driving now down a Cornwall carriageway thinking about who in the UK is on crack?

By carriageway association my guess is first cab off the rank is Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, a Brexiteer, but having no fucking clue that with a Brexit No Deal, UK road hauliers will have no right to drive through Europe at the end of March?

You can't make this shit up.

Not sure, I see Turkish trucks need permits per country, that is a f*cked up part of the EU as they try to protect and charge each other, Switzerland charges everyone

 

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14 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Not sure, I see Turkish trucks need permits per country, that is a f*cked up part of the EU as they try to protect and charge each other, Switzerland charges everyone

 

Sail I'm also sure the converse that if those Turkish trucks are the source for Leaver and Transport Secretary Chris Grayling's crack, I hope someone has told him of the need to start stockpiling a lot of crack and quick smart.

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm also sure the converse that if those Turkish trucks are the source for Leaver and Transport Secretary Chris Grayling's crack, he will need to start stockpiling a lot of crack and quick smart.

looks like trucking going the way of sheep farmers

ships and ports will get busy
I bet the Dutch will have some deal worked out with the Brits

Channel Tunnel will be getting busy

> found this, clear as mud

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/international-authorisations-and-permits-for-road-haulage

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