Meat Wad

Brexit, WTF

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Sailabout said:

why would the UK put tarrifs on their beef imports?

What the UK might like to do and what they can do to avoid eating just carrot burgers is a point you and Rees Mogg fail to grasp in terms of world trade opportunities and constraints.

5 hours ago, Sailabout said:

Does Australian beef go to Japan/USA with 80% tariffs?

No it doesn't and which is why Australia supplies just on shy of beef to the US in quantity equal to what the UK imports in total.

OK as you are either retarded or just pretending. Lets make this easy for you.

Here are again the current non EU countries supplying beef to the EU incl the UK (btw some of UK's imports are listed as coming from the EU Netherlands, but under the Rotterdam transfer effect are actually non EU in origin) under a complex arrangement decades in the making and involving a 12% tariff on certain beef products and zero or nearly zero on others like high quality products governed by quoto. It is noted some of those countries are midway through after many years currently negotiating free trade agreements with the EU, ironically that would benefit the UK if it stayed in the EU.

So name one country outside this mob in this graph (who are contractually bound to the EU) and the EU it's self who supply over 90% of the UK's imports, that can supply beef to the UK both frozen and fresh (noting the 6 day slaughter to process time limit) and to the UK's health and environmental standards which are stated as remaining unchanged post Brexit? In other words no barbecue goats heads will appear on the UK McDonalds menu.

141098872_images(7).png.62bfc381e2c7bb6ac4f2d8df74ab7226.png

When you have done making that list I will consider a reply, noting I know to the dollar what say the cost of beef from all those countries were landed in the UK this year. I also know the post Brexit cost to the UK consumer plus or minus actual tariff and compliance costs that I have already articulated upthtread with support linkys, but which you simply ignore.

5 hours ago, Sailabout said:

PS are you in the meat business?

The penny is starting to drop. You very much remind me of the Wop taking a knife to a gunfight with a Scot who likes golf.

https://youtu.be/Ms6xVl-cbQ4

Can't wait for your list of countries that will suddenly supply the UK with 250,000 tonne pa of fresh and frozen beef products to UK standards come Brexit at either less or the same cost to the consumer as now and as you and Rees Mogg keep claiming.

250,000 tonne is a lot of Sunday dinners and burgers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sailabout said:

you dont need anything from the WTO to do free trade, where do people get this idea?
 

Correct if you add the word "wanting" instead of "need" to do free trade. Next question is after putting up that UK zero tariff import sign that Rees Mogg has painted for all you Brexiteers, is the reality of life. That is who is standing in line not encumbered by existing trade agreements ready to supply the UK with something the UK can accept and the UK can providesomething  in return they want beyond instructions on how to wear silly hats?

The UK post Brexit according to you, Boris and Rees Mogg is akin to an ugly person looking to get laid when last drinks are called and finding out everyone in the pub is stone cold sober and already married and if not has a boyfriend/girlfriend.

The UK better get used to masturbating post Brexit for around two or three decades, before that mob start divorcing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sailabout said:

you dont need anything from the WTO to do free trade, where do people get this idea?
 

Ah, I'm sorry. I kind of thought the UK would want access to other markets. My bad. If it's just a domestic market totally open to international imports and service provision then fire away. Of course being stuck on an island with no freedom of movement and exposed to the free job market might kind of suck but screw it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

What the UK might like to do and what they can do to avoid eating just carrot burgers is a point you and Rees Mogg fail to grasp in terms of world trade opportunities and constraints.

No it doesn't and which is why Australia supplies just on shy of beef to the US in quantity equal to what the UK imports in total.

OK as you are either retarded or just pretending. Lets make this easy for you.

Here are again the current non EU countries supplying beef to the EU incl the UK (btw some of UK's imports are listed as coming from the EU Netherlands, but under the Rotterdam transfer effect are actually non EU in origin) under a complex arrangement decades in the making and involving a 12% tariff on certain beef products and zero or nearly zero on others like high quality products governed by quoto. It is noted some of those countries are midway through after many years currently negotiating free trade agreements with the EU, ironically that would benefit the UK if it stayed in the EU.

So name one country outside this mob in this graph (who are contractually bound to the EU) and the EU it's self who supply over 90% of the UK's imports, that can supply beef to the UK both frozen and fresh (noting the 6 day slaughter to process time limit) and to the UK's health and environmental standards which are stated as remaining unchanged post Brexit? In other words no barbecue goats heads will appear on the UK McDonalds menu.

141098872_images(7).png.62bfc381e2c7bb6ac4f2d8df74ab7226.png

When you have done making that list I will consider a reply, noting I know to the dollar what say the cost of beef from all those countries were landed in the UK this year. I also know the post Brexit cost to the UK consumer plus or minus actual tariff and compliance costs that I have already articulated upthtread with support linkys, but which you simply ignore.

The penny is starting to drop. You very much remind me of the Wop taking a knife to a gunfight with a Scot who likes golf.

https://youtu.be/Ms6xVl-cbQ4

Can't wait for your list of countries that will suddenly supply the UK with 250,000 tonne pa of fresh and frozen beef products to UK standards come Brexit at either less or the same cost to the consumer as now and as you and Rees Mogg keep claiming.

250,000 tonne is a lot of Sunday dinners and burgers.

so the EU makes the rules on where the USA can sell beef in the world, does Trump know that?

You have posted nothing that says why the price of beef will go up, yet now your saying there isnt enough beef in the world to supply the UK as the EU controls the worlds supply?

Didnt you do supply and demand at school, economics 101
China put tariffs on USA soybeans, guess what Iran now largest buyer of USA soy beans, I wonder what they do with them??

2019, Iran largest buyer of Irish beef, gee I wonder what they do with it

 

PS 6 days from slaughter to process, what part of the process do you mean?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, fufkin said:

Why do you guys think that a healthy economy, the size of which is roughly 2.2ish trillion euros gdp, exiting the pact should be met with a shrug? 

Overstatement a gogo, almost nobody in the EU likes it that the UK leaves, and is aware of loss of power. So no shrugging.
You are right in seeing Germany is the main factor, the bailout of Greece was to pay German banks. Something the EU wanted to solve, but one of the countries stopping this banking rule, the UK. And with the big market share of UK in the financial services, this could be interesting. With the UK leaving the EU could have a better grip on the financial sector.

It is not all doom, as the UK will be still there after a hard Brexit, and then it can be an answer to the question, is a country better off outside the EU or in.

On financial stuff the cards are not looking that well for the coming decade. After that ? Will it become like Argentina who managed to get  into problems in 10 years (again). Or Singapore, a rich country. Both not the leaders on the Happiness scale.

The national identity is reinforced, that is for sure.

Immigration from within the EU, we will see in the next decade if the UK needs workers, who knows, maybe they will get automation improved. (I know from experience that cheap labour stifles improvements in that field) So that could turn out well, as long as EU workers in the needed sectors like health still get easy access, as the plans are. If they want to invest their live into a non EU country is to be seen, 5 years visa are restricting. You will not buy a house in the UK with that kind of rules. And high paid staff want to own stuff and build up their lives. But who knows.

Non EU immigration, they are under UN agreements, but can ignore that much easier then while being in the EU. They talk about Aus points system, they legally take in legal immigrants (refugees, not workers) on a point system, in the thousands a year, and are very strict to illegal enterers. That makes sense, though conditions of the camps they are in are a point of attention. There is a lot to learn there fro the EU IMHO. The UK can do the same but even Aus has illegal workers coming in with a tourist visa and working. Though in smaller numbers. The UK with a big black market were you can work illegally will keep attracting immigrants. So there is a lot of enforcement and rules changes need to stop that. Just shout immigration check in a restaurant and there is a risk that your food will not be served as the kitchen is empty.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-immigrants-government-cuts-resources-lucy-moreton-immigration-service-union-brexit-a8081511.html

So the whataboutism of Italy is so corrupt and do not levy taxes enough, the UK has its own problems in that area. We the Dutch share that habit though, shout out loud at others problems while do not want to speak to much about their own.

in short;
Its like going for an operation for a small problem but the side effects of the operation for the coming years are big to harsh. And you could solve that small problem for a big part by changing your lifestyle. But if you want to get rid of the problem, go ahead, many would do. Some of them would even argue that the small problem is in fact a big one.

Jack, if AUS was near EU, like for instance it gets transported to the Atlantic somehow, if it fits :), would it enter the EU ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Overstatement a gogo, almost nobody in the EU likes it that the UK leaves, and is aware of loss of power. So no shrugging.
You are right in seeing Germany is the main factor, the bailout of Greece was to pay German banks. Something the EU wanted to solve, but one of the countries stopping this banking rule, the UK. And with the big market share of UK in the financial services, this could be interesting. With the UK leaving the EU could have a better grip on the financial sector.

It is not all doom, as the UK will be still there after a hard Brexit, and then it can be an answer to the question, is a country better off outside the EU or in.

On financial stuff the cards are not looking that well for the coming decade. After that ? Will it become like Argentina who managed to get  into problems in 10 years (again). Or Singapore, a rich country. Both not the leaders on the Happiness scale.

The national identity is reinforced, that is for sure.

Immigration from within the EU, we will see in the next decade if the UK needs workers, who knows, maybe they will get automation improved. (I know from experience that cheap labour stifles improvements in that field) So that could turn out well, as long as EU workers in the needed sectors like health still get easy access, as the plans are. If they want to invest their live into a non EU country is to be seen, 5 years visa are restricting. You will not buy a house in the UK with that kind of rules. And high paid staff want to own stuff and build up their lives. But who knows.

Non EU immigration, they are under UN agreements, but can ignore that much easier then while being in the EU. They talk about Aus points system, they legally take in legal immigrants (refugees, not workers) on a point system, in the thousands a year, and are very strict to illegal enterers. That makes sense, though conditions of the camps they are in are a point of attention. There is a lot to learn there fro the EU IMHO. The UK can do the same but even Aus has illegal workers coming in with a tourist visa and working. Though in smaller numbers. The UK with a big black market were you can work illegally will keep attracting immigrants. So there is a lot of enforcement and rules changes need to stop that. Just shout immigration check in a restaurant and there is a risk that your food will not be served as the kitchen is empty.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-immigrants-government-cuts-resources-lucy-moreton-immigration-service-union-brexit-a8081511.html

So the whataboutism of Italy is so corrupt and do not levy taxes enough, the UK has its own problems in that area. We the Dutch share that habit though, shout out loud at others problems while do not want to speak to much about their own.

in short;
Its like going for an operation for a small problem but the side effects of the operation for the coming years are big to harsh. And you could solve that small problem for a big part by changing your lifestyle. But if you want to get rid of the problem, go ahead, many would do. Some of them would even argue that the small problem is in fact a big one.

Jack, if AUS was near EU, like for instance it gets transported to the Atlantic somehow, if it fits :), would it enter the EU ?

you forgot the collapse of Deutsche Bank and its consequences which will be global

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LeoV said:

 

Jack, if AUS was near EU, like for instance it gets transported to the Atlantic somehow, if it fits :), would it enter the EU ?

3

Well they seem to like being in Eurovision

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

You have posted nothing that says why the price of beef will go up,

I believe I have posted enough to satisfy all but the blind and stupid on beef. You on the other hand refuse to answer any question posed. For instance.

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Can't wait for your list of countries that will suddenly supply the UK with 250,000 tonne pa of fresh and frozen beef products to UK standards come Brexit at either less or the same cost to the consumer as now and as you and Rees Mogg keep claiming.

250,000 tonne is a lot of Sunday dinners and burgers.

I have been generous to  date. Now you are now going to be treated as a complete fucktard with zero debating and economic interrogation skills and burnt slowly. For instance you now say.

49 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

..yet now your saying there isnt enough beef in the world to supply the UK as the EU controls the worlds supply?

Where have I said and implied this?

49 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Didnt you do supply and demand at school, economics 101
China put tariffs on USA soybeans, guess what Iran now largest buyer of USA soy beans, I wonder what they do with them??

Economics 101 according to who?  Let's stick to Beef, forget soybeans Mr Vegan.

As you reakon your are the UK Beef expert saying prices will drop in the UK post Brexit, then you tell me the wholesale average price of Argentinian beef landed in the UK this year post any tarriffs and costs of red tape attached? I will respond accordingly with a post Brexit numbers to yours.

Answer that and the post Brexit beef supply country question you avoid if you think you are capable of a Economics 101 discussion. I suggest you can't because you avoid answering any questions. You just push a bullshit Mogg Mantra. 

Unless you can be serious, fuck off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would it be wrong to assume that by now Little Britain is pretty much the laughing stock of Europe and beyond and will be regarded as weak in any future trade negotiations?

In that scenario some countries will be more than willing to open talks   .......... on their terms, exacerbating what has been argued above iwo tarifs, pricing, quality and so on.  

Downward spiral sort of thing.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sailabout said:

PS 6 days from slaughter to process, what part of the process do you mean?

Surprising question as you being the one stating Beef prices in the UK will drop or remain stable post Brexit with that gem. It is 6 days slaughter to processing to being in supermarket shelves and listed as fresh meat. 

Haven't you and the Mogg worked out yet why 70% of Beef imports to the UK come from the EU Irish Republic and 90% from the EU? Do you need a map and lesson in logistics? 

Fuck me dead, you Beef eating Brexiteers have no idea what is up ahead.

Back to the future with SPAM.

1.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

Would it be wrong to assume that by now Little Britain is pretty much the laughing stock of Europe and beyond and will be regarded as weak in any future trade negotiations?

What is the next level below weak?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, fufkin said:

Does Germany's efforts to relax EU regulations to suit there skilled worker shortage and allow skilled non EU workers into their country to compete for (er, fill) jobs count as a rule change?

No, the statement was that EU changes rules over and over, this is one, and not over and over. And implied is that there are rules changes regarding to Brexit, over and over, the EU is playing dirty :)
The German effort is bringing in more high skilled labourers from outside the EU, there is sense in that but should companies not train their own first ? Big business rule again, some are against in Germany, 
Labour unions and opposition parties such as the leftist Die Linke or the far-right Alternative for Germany say firms should improve pay and conditions for locals instead of increasing labor market competition through higher immigration. ,
And just what the UK wants to do too after Brexit,.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy-immigration-law-factb/germany-plans-to-lower-hurdles-for-skilled-workers-from-abroad-idUSKCN1LY1EK
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LeoV said:

Jack, if AUS was near EU, like for instance it gets transported to the Atlantic somehow, if it fits :), would it enter the EU ?

Nothing to do with geography Leo. They are full systems go at conditionally joining the EU by way of itemised free trade agreements. Australia with its natural resource bargaining power can punch beyond its weight.

https://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/negotiations/aeufta/Pages/default.aspx

Many in the UK somehow think going isolation and starting again like around when the Vikings arrived over in England a 1000 years ago is the recipe for salvation. They are looking to burn up a 45 year investment in the EU thinking the rest of the world is going to help out a country no bigger than a couple of Chinese cities.

The Rees Moggs and @Sailabout of the UK Brexit world are on drugs. There is no serious international economic support to their plan. It will end up a catastrofuck by any objective assessment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So even an commonwealth partner sees no common wealth :), yeah your natural resources is something the UK lacks except oil in the Scottish area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, LeoV said:

So even an commonwealth partner sees no common wealth :), 

Partner?? That died 45 years ago with the betrayal of the Commonwealth by the UK upon joining the EU. Ironically a wake-up and blessing in disguise otherwise a lot of Commonwealth countries would not have seen daylight being in a century old deep sleep slumber party.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking about what the UK exports that I want to buy. Been there many times so the tourist thing is checked off, though if it's cheap to go I can find stuff to do.

  1. Single malt whisky from Scotland (Yes)
  2. Automobiles (No)
  3. Food (No)
  4. Boat stuff (No)
  5. Textiles (Already have what I need)
  6. Stuff for other hobbies (No, most of that stuff is made in Asia anyway.)

So on a personal level, I value trade with Asia much more than with the EU (with or without the UK). From a tourist point of view spending US $$, Europe and Asia seem more interesting at this stage of life. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LeoV said:

..yeah your natural resources is something the UK lacks except oil in the Scottish area.

Gas not oil/coal is the new black as a load tweener to renewables. The world is awash with oil, particularly post US fracking explosion where US not Saudia Arabia or Russia the top dog. Similiarly Aust is now awash with gas.

UK fossil fuel production peaked nearly 2 decades ago so the UK have become energy nervous since then. Currently they have over 50% LNG ship import reserve infrasructure already built and sitting there unused ready to go.

That makes the Brexits feel comfortable in case those Euro gas pipelines become a problem. It is hard for UK Euro-Sceptics to leverage wide support when the greater population in winter are doing iceblock impersonations.

That said, they still haven't addressed the Brexit Burger Supply (BBS) problem, even with having though the how to cook them, well in hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeremy Corbyn with nothing to be gained by saying anything and everything to lose, then in a couple of seconds saying nothing, but mouths it, pisses women off, who account for around 50% of any vote.

If only the camera had caught Boris mouthing "I'd still shag her" in response to Corbyn's "stupid woman" jibe. Loony leaders mirroring a loony country?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46619689

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fray Bentos to the rescue? Corned beef a gogo, as well as snake and pigmy pies and so on.

Used to think that Fray Bentos was a great British thing, only to discover he was a Uruguayan monk ….

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Laser1 said:

Would it be wrong to assume that by now Little Britain is pretty much the laughing stock of Europe and beyond and will be regarded as weak in any future trade negotiations?

In that scenario some countries will be more than willing to open talks   .......... on their terms, exacerbating what has been argued above iwo tarifs, pricing, quality and so on.  

Downward spiral sort of thing.

 

 

That unfortunately is very much the truth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Laser1 said:

Would it be wrong to assume that by now Little Britain is pretty much the laughing stock of Europe and beyond ....

Very wrong ..well up until this show about Little Britain aired..and the laughter increased.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Jeremy Corbyn with nothing to be gained by saying anything and everything to lose, then in a couple of seconds saying nothing, but mouths it, pisses women off, who account for around 50% of any vote.

If only the camera had caught Boris mouthing "I'd still shag her" in response to Corbyn's "stupid woman" jibe. Loony leaders mirroring a loony country?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46619689

Trump gets criticized for lying, why is Crobyn being critized for speaking the truth? May certainly seems a stupid woman much as Corbyn seems a stupid man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I believe I have posted enough to satisfy all but the blind and stupid on beef. You on the other hand refuse to answer any question posed. For instance.

I have been generous to  date. Now you are now going to be treated as a complete fucktard with zero debating and economic interrogation skills and burnt slowly. For instance you now say.

Where have I said and implied this?

Economics 101 according to who?  Let's stick to Beef, forget soybeans Mr Vegan.

As you reakon your are the UK Beef expert saying prices will drop in the UK post Brexit, then you tell me the wholesale average price of Argentinian beef landed in the UK this year post any tarriffs and costs of red tape attached? I will respond accordingly with a post Brexit numbers to yours.

Answer that and the post Brexit beef supply country question you avoid if you think you are capable of a Economics 101 discussion. I suggest you can't because you avoid answering any questions. You just push a bullshit Mogg Mantra. 

Unless you can be serious, fuck off.

Why is it you think post brexit the EU will ban Ireland from selling beef to the UK or the EU will force the UK to add tariffs just to make your argument work?
How about nothing changes?
If you google irish beef after brexit, the Irish papers are all concerned that the UK will go elsewhere for beef, that seems contrary to your opinion that the UK will starve.
 

PS who wants to eat beef 6 days after its been killed, tough as an old boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

As you reakon your are the UK Beef expert saying prices will drop in the UK post Brexit, then you tell me the wholesale average price of Argentinian beef landed in the UK this year post any tarriffs and costs of red tape attached? I will respond accordingly with a post Brexit numbers to yours.

never said drop, I just disagreed with you saying it will go up, then you started saying they will run out of beef without explaining why you think Ireland will stop shipping

these guys would also like to know why the UK would add tariffs

https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef-exports/what-brexit-s-potential-impact-beef-trade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

never said drop, I just disagreed with you saying it will go up, 

What implement do you use to split straws?

On 12/16/2018 at 10:23 AM, Sailabout said:

how will the price of meat go up when they can buy cheap from anywhere in the world after brexit?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

these guys would also like to know why the UK would add tariffs

https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef-exports/what-brexit-s-potential-impact-beef-trade

Really an American beef producers magazine article written nearly 2 1/2 years ago or a fortnight after the referendum in June 2016. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sailabout said:

Why is it you think post brexit the EU will ban Ireland from selling beef to the UK or the EU will force the UK to add tariffs just to make your argument work?

You really are struggling with WTO concepts that deal with setting the rules of trade between nations and resolving any disputes on trade between countries. The EU, including Ireland, is a member of the WTO which has a registered set of tariffs on EU goods and products. This applies to trade with countries that are not members of the EU and do not have a separate trade deal to lower the registered tariffs. 

After Brexit the UK will become a Third Country meaning that it is not a member of the EU trading bloc and does not have a registered trade deal with the EU. Current EU WTO tariffs will automatically apply to products  and goods exported between Ireland and the UK.

Changes to the current agreement can be made via negotiation of all tariffs under WTO rules with all WTO members including Ireland. It is noted some beef producing nations have already flagged their position on this and their message is not good for UK meat eaters.

You also forget the UK exports around half of what imports and to members of the EU.

You keep avoiding the question that if not from Ireland that supplies 70% and 20% from the EU and 10% from non EU countries under EU tariffs and quotas, where will the UK get its meat from post Brexit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Partner?? That died 45 years ago with the betrayal of the Commonwealth by the UK upon joining the EU. Ironically a wake-up and blessing in disguise otherwise a lot of Commonwealth countries would not have seen daylight being in a century old deep sleep slumber party.

This. I'm watching with great amusement the entire Brexit fiasco.

Whatever happens to the UK, it's richly deserved.

If you think Australia is going to lift a finger to help out except on favourable terms for us, good luck with that. The UK has 45 years of fucking us over to compensate for first.

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You really are struggling with WTO concepts that deal with setting the rules of trade between nations and resolving any disputes on trade between countries. The EU, including Ireland, is a member of the WTO which has a registered set of tariffs on EU goods and products. This applies to trade with countries that are not members of the EU and do not have a separate trade deal to lower the registered tariffs. 

After Brexit the UK will become a Third Country meaning that it is not a member of the EU trading bloc and does not have a registered trade deal with the EU. Current EU WTO tariffs will automatically apply to products  and goods exported between Ireland and the UK.

Changes to the current agreement can be made via negotiation of all tariffs under WTO rules with all WTO members including Ireland. It is noted some beef producing nations have already flagged their position on this and their message is not good for UK meat eaters.

You also forget the UK exports around half of what imports and to members of the EU.

You keep avoiding the question that if not from Ireland that supplies 70% and 20% from the EU and 10% from non EU countries under EU tariffs and quotas, where will the UK get its meat from post Brexit?

This guy from the industry has a different view, I guess he knows

https://www.fginsight.com/brexit-hub/brexit---industry-leader-analysis/dont-believe-the-armageddon-hype--the-uk-beef-industry-will-be-fine-after-brexit

When you read the press its half the beef industry will collapse from cheap imports, or it will get more expensive, yet lots of countries lined up to export to the UK once they are out of quota protected EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-trade-rules/

Everyone seems to have the idea the WTO is there to apply tarrifs, its job is to help prevent them and settle arguments on standards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/2429503.stm

"The World Trade Organization (WTO) is an international body whose purpose is to promote free trade by persuading countries to abolish import tariffs and other barriers".

So Ireland can complain to the WTO to force them to force the UK to put tariffs on their products at the same level that Irish products have worldwide, or Ireland will put higher tariffs on UK products to teach them a lesson?
The EU negotiated WTO rules will prevent Ireland from selling beef to non EU member unless they make it expensive?

( after the EU tries to make Ireland have a hard border which they say they wont, its up to them not the UK via NI)

Sounds like a re-moaner logic
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sailabout said:

Maybe you should read it more closely.

He says with my emphasis, that imported beef will have to have a tarriff to protect local producers. What he doesn't mention is the tarriffs on beef now. The answer for approx 95% of UK's beef imports the tarrif is zero because the UK sources 90% of its imported beef from within the EU. He also makes no mention of the additional cost of compliance and customs post Brexit. He also makes no mention of where that beef is to come from if it is no longer coming from the EU and the impact of trade agreements already in place between those potential non EU suppliers and the EU.

"(2) GOODS WHERE THERE IS SIGNIFICANT UK PRODUCTION

Take beef, which the scare story I began with singled out as subject to 40% tariffs on leaving the EU without a deal. Beef farmers in the UK have a legitimate interest in not suddenly being subject to a sharp price fall which could happen if tariffs were to be scrapped overnight; but equally consumers have a legitimate interest in not having prices go up.

The answer is to set a new lower UK tariff applied equally to beef imports from both the EU27 and the rest of the world, in order to maintain the price of beef in the UK domestic market at its current level".

His answer is correct with reference to existing high WTO tariffs for beef where there is no agreement with the EU. Unfortunately an answer only possible with the cooperation of the EU. How is that working out??

In short he has only told part of the story, a common Brexiteer ploy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brexit Central; their goal.
We also have a vibrant social media presence on TwitterFacebook and YouTube to help promote the positive vision of Britain after Brexit.

So another balanced view;
https://theconversation.com/no-deal-seven-reasons-why-a-wto-only-brexit-would-be-bad-for-britain-102009
One suggestion has been that the UK scrap all tariffs and regulations for EU imports and continue to accept all products from the EU without checks. But, according to the WTO rules, the UK should extend this approach to products from all other WTO members (it has to treat everyone equally). Is the UK ready to allow all food products, tariff-free and without checks into the UK market? Not only would this be very damaging to UK farmers and the food industry, it would threaten food quality and safety standards.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sailabout said:

This guy from the industry has a different view, I guess he knows

https://www.fginsight.com/brexit-hub/brexit---industry-leader-analysis/dont-believe-the-armageddon-hype--the-uk-beef-industry-will-be-fine-after-brexit

When you read the press its half the beef industry will collapse from cheap imports, or it will get more expensive, yet lots of countries lined up to export to the UK once they are out of quota protected EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-trade-rules/

You really should read these linkys more carefully. For instance the first author says with my emphasis.

"My first presumption is that we will be trading with the EU on the same basis as we are now as officials and Ministers have indicated".

He then says;

"As an eternal optimist, I’m sure they are truthful and know what they’re doing, but if not and we crash out on World Trade Organisation (WTO) terms, the implications for beef are nothing like what they would be for lamb."

What he then does is look solely at existing imports from non EU countries subject to quota to make his point.. What the sneaky prick doesn't mention is that represents less than 10% of the UK's existing imports. The balance 90% comes from within the EU.

I think you need to start looking for a white flag. I'm told France is good at making them in bulk and they are well priced.

PS. Think about how primary producers, food processers, retailers, most of the general public and politicians (except the Boris and Rees Mogg show) want a "soft border" between Nth Ireland and the EU Irish Republic and the views of the latter. It is probably the only thing where there is some common ground. Then think about the EU's view that hell will freeze over first before they agree to that EU backdoor for the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Not only would this be very damaging to UK farmers and the food industry, it would threaten food quality and safety standards.

Yep everyone in the UK is going to be lining up for BBQ Goats Head Burgers at McDonalds.

5mntObDWR0PEdeUCyW04XhHl6QcC9zKf62ufrlhMt34qAXFX0wafyFCxXyd01WQL4amLJxGHxq2dQNLLTGJqZw.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe you should read it more closely.

He says with my emphasis, that imported beef will have to have a tarriff to protect local producers. What he doesn't mention is the tarriffs on beef now. The answer for approx 95% of UK's beef imports the tarrif is zero because the UK sources 90% of its imported beef from within the EU. He also makes no mention of the additional cost of compliance and customs post Brexit. He also makes no mention of where that beef is to come from if it is no longer coming from the EU and the impact of trade agreements already in place between those potential non EU suppliers and the EU.

"(2) GOODS WHERE THERE IS SIGNIFICANT UK PRODUCTION

Take beef, which the scare story I began with singled out as subject to 40% tariffs on leaving the EU without a deal. Beef farmers in the UK have a legitimate interest in not suddenly being subject to a sharp price fall which could happen if tariffs were to be scrapped overnight; but equally consumers have a legitimate interest in not having prices go up.

The answer is to set a new lower UK tariff applied equally to beef imports from both the EU27 and the rest of the world, in order to maintain the price of beef in the UK domestic market at its current level".

His answer is correct with reference to existing high WTO tariffs for beef where there is no agreement with the EU. Unfortunately an answer only possible with the cooperation of the EU. How is that working out??

In short he has only told part of the story, a common Brexiteer ploy.

where do you get the 40% from for the beef tariff?
You are saying when an EU country exports beef the WTO will try to enforce EU agreed ( if the country is a WTO member) that they put 40% tariff on it?

http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=0201202029&country=AU
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You really should read these linkys more carefully. For instance the first author says with my emphasis.

"My first presumption is that we will be trading with the EU on the same basis as we are now as officials and Ministers have indicated".

He then says;

"As an eternal optimist, I’m sure they are truthful and know what they’re doing, but if not and we crash out on World Trade Organisation (WTO) terms, the implications for beef are nothing like what they would be for lamb."

What he then does is look solely at existing imports from non EU countries subject to quota to make his point.. What the sneaky prick doesn't mention is that represents less than 10% of the UK's existing imports. The balance 90% comes from within the EU.

I think you need to start looking for a white flag. I'm told France is good at making them in bulk and they are well priced.

PS. Think about how primary producers, food processers, retailers, most of the general public and politicians (except the Boris and Rees Mogg show) want a "soft border" between Nth Ireland and the EU Irish Republic and the views of the latter. It is probably the only thing where there is some common ground. Then think about the EU's view that hell will freeze over first before they agree to that EU backdoor for the UK.

not the UK's problem to solve the soft hard border, thats up to the EU to force Ireland to do it, is that going to happen? Will Ireland want that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

not the UK's problem to solve the soft hard border, thats up to the EU to force Ireland to do it, is that going to happen? Will Ireland want that?

Not UK's problem? It is the biggest issue of all. Republic of Ireland definitely want it. As for that dream coming true as a directive to them from the EU...think pork.

tenor (1).gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Republic of Ireland definitely want it. As for that aspiration coming as a directive from the EU...think pork.

tenor (1).gif

so Ireland wants it and the EU doesnt, looks like its going to a coin toss?
Where does that leave many Irish farmers whose properties span the border, I assume they vote?
Ireland leave with the UK, problem solved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider the implications for an All Ireland vote if faced with a hard border with no tariffs on imports from the Republic and a closed border on exports. The real NI economy is heavily integrated with the Republic and even the DUP knows it.

Also consider whether it will get easier or harder to form new trade agreements if the UK walks away unilaterally from the Belfast Agreement, something it has repeatedly confirmed that it will not do.

 

The Republic doesn't want it. Just in terms of law and order, it will be problematic. But they are getting ready to do it if they have to.

Think this will cause a divide between the EU and Ireland? Consider that Ireland basically picked up the tab for UK/EU banking excess in 2008, knuckled down to dealing with it with barely a murmur. Why? Because the Shinners and anti-English nationalism are the natural outlets for discontent (there's a massive fight going on right now over the embryonic Irish yellow jacket movement to ensure that it does not end up as a right-wing nationalist movement). And because Ireland knows the importance of EU membership to the international corporations that make up a significant part of its economy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cant find anything on WTO tariff rules less the UK is obligated to charge the same rate to all exporters of a product, so if its zero its zero and then Jacks Beef Sparrow Burgers business might be in trouble depending whether he is UK beef supplier ( not good) or a retailer ( good)
What number do you need Jack? ( is that where the 40% came from)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Cant find anything on WTO tariff rules less the UK is obligated to charge the same rate to all exporters of a product, so if its zero its zero and then Jacks Beef Sparrow Burgers business might be in trouble depending whether he is UK beef supplier ( not good) or a retailer ( good)
What number do you need Jack? ( is that where the 40% came from)

sorry

should of said "tariffs on" a product , not exporters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

sorry

should of said "tariffs on" a product , not exporters

Please don't stop....keep going as you you are now at 10' under and clearly acquired a new shovel with learner plates on it. I would reply in detail but I'm at the doctors at the moment getting a prescription for BCJABZF (Be Calm Just Another Brexit Zealot Fool). BTW I showed the Doc your posts and he upped the dosage. Back soon.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and before the pills kick in please remind me where I said this. Hint I have used the word 40%

3 hours ago, Sailabout said:

where do you get the 40% from for the beef tariff?

Sail I gave you the Wop to Gunfight hint to retire gracefully..but you just go get another blunt & make believe knife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sailabout said:

https://www.fginsight.com/brexit-hub/brexit---industry-leader-analysis/dont-believe-the-armageddon-hype--the-uk-beef-industry-will-be-fine-after-brexit

When you read the press its half the beef industry will collapse from cheap imports, or it will get more expensive, yet lots of countries lined up to export to the UK once they are out of quota protected EU.

Lets see if both can be true even if they seems a contradiction to you, both can be true , half of the framers producing low quality meats could collapse due to cheap import  if cheap meat bought in Paraguay will still be cheap when it is in the supermarket in the UK. And the other half could produce high quality expensive meat. Maybe if all change to high quality products the market is to small ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/19/2018 at 12:53 PM, rgeek said:

Well they seem to like being in Eurovision

So it was you that watched it???

 

:P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just had the first pill and so can now address both your horseshit and inability to understand and interogate any argument contrary to Brexiteer bullshit in a calm state of mind. For instance you say.

7 hours ago, Sailabout said:

where do you get the 40% from for the beef tariff?
You are saying when an EU country exports beef the WTO will try to enforce EU agreed ( if the country is a WTO member) that they put 40% tariff on it?

http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=0201202029&country=AU

 

5 hours ago, Sailabout said:

Cant find anything on WTO tariff rules less the UK is obligated to charge the same rate to all exporters of a product, so if its zero its zero and then Jacks Beef Sparrow Burgers business might be in trouble depending whether he is UK beef supplier ( not good) or a retailer ( good)
What number do you need Jack? ( is that where the 40% came from)

So you can't find anything on WTO tariff rules etc to support what I'm saying the end of the week, but I replied to last weekend spelling it out for you for the umpteenth time back then. It is like pulling teeth..

 

To save you the bother of reading that post it included a linky as follows which you clearly didn't bother to read, let alone read my post in reply to you.

https://projectblue.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/Market Insight/BeefandLamb_bitesize (1).pdf.

You will see it talks of an "Effective ad valorem rate" to be applied instead what you do is rattling off Tariff figures from a generalised and misleading tarrif website that apply tariffs to no one other than a handfull of countries that otherwise can't export to the EU by way of Quota. The Ad Valorem tariff rates are calculated essentially as a fixed percentage of the assessed commercial value of the goods and while that linky is dated 20115, is valid today as a differential. That is why Beef products if ever imported to the UK outside the EU/WTO have an effective tariff anywhere between  48% and 160% as shown, not the 12/13% that you are pulling out of your arse with no knowledge of the industry. The real tariff depending on cut and frozen/fresh can exceed the value of the product. Welcome to world beef economics.

I can guarantee you one thing. If you, Boris and Rees Mogg go out for a steak dinner tonight and insist on Argentine or Australian Beef, the landed cost before processing will be around £3,700 per tonne. That cost won't be too much different than if you were eating high end local beef in the UK. At the same time @LeoV in Amsterdam taking his wife out for dinner the same night will be paying around the same price. However the next day @LeoVwanting to make it two nights in a row his price paid will remain the same. However you Boris and Rees Mogg with a No Deal  Brexit occuring at midnight will pay based on a landed price of around £5,500 per tonne inclusive of additional WTO tariffs and red tape costs. Putting aside that cost differential if Ireland drops out along with the EU and EU sanctioned deals, who provides the UK with a decent steak? Mesopotamia and Cathay??

The pro and anti Brexit lobby all tell lies. My guess is the pro Brexits cherry pick and have noses longer than Pinochio. That aside the Beef test is compelling as all bets are off unless someone is very skinny, likes top hats and is into Veganomics.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/19/2018 at 12:25 AM, Mambo Kings said:

Unfortunately that is not how it works.

There are two hurdles.

1. Regulatory approval and Registration

2. Meeting regulatory capital requirements.

Both are reasonable and standard requirements around the world for Banks and Insurance companies.  The Regulatory Authority needs you to have sufficient capital to meet your  liabilities. They do not want insurance companies who pocket the premiums but do not have sufficient capital to pay out claims when a catastrophe occurs.

UK insurance companies have substantial operations in continental Europe backed by capital at HQ in the UK. When the UK leaves Europe, suddenly all that capital is inaccessible to the insurance regulators and European courts . So in the eyes of the policyholder and the insurance regulator, that parent company capital is worthless.  The company will not meet minimum reserve requirements and faces three choices......(1) raise a massive amount of new capital to send to Europe - destroying ROI and in practical terms impossible (2) Sell their European businesses. As forced sellers they will be scalped by the European buyers   (3) Pray for a transition period long enough for new insurance treaties to be drafted and agreed  such that UK capital will qualify for European MRR , which will mean that the UK companies will be subject to the european laws that the exiters wanted to avoid.  The brutal hard reality is that these treaties are not close to ready and UK insurance companies are in talks to sell their insuranec subs at bargain basement prices....and or wind down their books of business.

 

For large firms shifting capital round entities isn't a huge problem; a bit of friction but not a big problem 'cos large firms already have legal entities in multiple EU countries. For smaller firms it is a large problem. Complication keeps my paychecks coming in which somehow quickly get recycled into the marine industry...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Black Sox said:

So it was you that watched it???

 

:P

The missus was watching it while I was working

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, rgeek said:

Consider the implications for an All Ireland vote if faced with a hard border with no tariffs on imports from the Republic and a closed border on exports. The real NI economy is heavily integrated with the Republic and even the DUP knows it.

Also consider whether it will get easier or harder to form new trade agreements if the UK walks away unilaterally from the Belfast Agreement, something it has repeatedly confirmed that it will not do.

 

The Republic doesn't want it. Just in terms of law and order, it will be problematic. But they are getting ready to do it if they have to.

Think this will cause a divide between the EU and Ireland? Consider that Ireland basically picked up the tab for UK/EU banking excess in 2008, knuckled down to dealing with it with barely a murmur. Why? Because the Shinners and anti-English nationalism are the natural outlets for discontent (there's a massive fight going on right now over the embryonic Irish yellow jacket movement to ensure that it does not end up as a right-wing nationalist movement). And because Ireland knows the importance of EU membership to the international corporations that make up a significant part of its economy.

Correct. No one gets how Ireland is the lynch pin beyond propping up a minority Tory Government. This Tosser thought it might be a grand idea to visit Ireland decades after he had formulated an opinion. I say decades because go Google his Father for the definition of loopy economics. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, though i do get some comfort that he named his last and 6th child Sixtus (seriously), indicating he can add up using more than 5 fingers, though offset by spending little time buying condoms from France.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Correct. No one gets how Ireland is the lynch pin beyond propping up a minority Tory Government. This Tosser thought it might be a grand idea to visit Ireland decades after he had formulated an opinion. I say decades because go Google his Father for the definition of loopy economics. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, though i do get some comfort that he named his last and 6th child Sixtus (seriously), indicating he can add up using more than 5 fingers.

 

 

JRM is a truly effective communicator, no doubt enhanced by his POSH delivery. He could sell water to a drowning sailor.

I wish I had him fronting my communications team.

Like many effective persuaders he is adept at making the other side seem the unreasonable one, which he does effectively

“(4:16) The UK government by saying it will keep it open solves half of the problem and the challenge then is for the Irish government and the EU to say in return we will keep our half of the border open....”

What he leaves out is that the EU and Ireland have  committed to keep their side of the border open...provided:

1.       The UK complies with all relevant EU regulations that need to be complied with in Ireland...or

2.       There is a “hard border” in the Irish sea between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, and Northern Ireland  complies with all relevant EU regulations that need to be complied with in the Republic of Ireland

In other words the way to avoid a hard border is:

1.       Stay in the EU;

2.       Leave the EU, lose your influence on EU regulations, but still have to live by (at least some) EU regulation.

JRM would never speak that truth.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, KC375 said:

JRM is a truly effective communicator, no doubt enhanced by his POSH delivery. He could sell water to a drowning sailor.

I wish I had him fronting my communications team.

Like many effective persuaders he is adept at making the other side seem the unreasonable one, which he does effectively

Could not agree more..then again Hitler was also so gifted..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Irish border issue is a great negotiating strategy for the EU. When I lived in Geneva around 1990 there were many unmanned border crossings from Switzerland into France. At that time Switzerland was not part of the EEA. The EU have latched onto this issue as a great negotiating strategy that will cost the UK $39billion now and leave the UK trapped in a never ending trade negotiation that locks in the EU traded good surplus. The worst of all possible outcomes is to accept the May deal.

The UK should revoke article 50 now and schedule another referendum. If that referendum again votes to leave the UK 7 EU will be able to prepare properly for BREXIT.

I have had no response to the dual Italy/France deficits explained away by Juncker as "because it's France'. The French budget deficit has been over 3 per cent for 10 years though 2017 may come in ~2.4%. The EU (Juncker again!) celebrated the end of the Greek fiscal crisis in August 2018 - this will be back on in 2020 as the Greek deficit explodes again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The BBC's Weather Report:

"Strong storms pummel the English Channel.  Concerns grow over isolated Continent".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Could not agree more..then again Hitler was also so gifted..

While Chamberlain appeased Hitler I'm sure Chamberlain felt he was doing the right (or at least expedient) thing. Fortunately others saw the insanity in that approach.

Jack, a serious question.

What are you, and other right minded folks, doing to try to steer your people away from this impending catastrophe? You understand the issue well and communicate compellingly.

Having lived and worked in the UK I have a fondness for the place (if it can be thought of as a singular place). That fondness is somewhat reinforced by romantic notions about my dubious lineage stretching back and beyond on one side of the Irish Sea to a famous drunken poet and on the other to some rather nasty border reivers. I wish there where something I could do to help, but I fear there is not much that a concerned foreign observer can do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, LeoV said:

So another balanced view;
https://theconversation.com/no-deal-seven-reasons-why-a-wto-only-brexit-would-be-bad-for-britain-102009
One suggestion has been that the UK scrap all tariffs and regulations for EU imports and continue to accept all products from the EU without checks. But, according to the WTO rules, the UK should extend this approach to products from all other WTO members (it has to treat everyone equally). Is the UK ready to allow all food products, tariff-free and without checks into the UK market? Not only would this be very damaging to UK farmers and the food industry, it would threaten food quality and safety standards.

7 reasons why WTO-only  Brexit is bad may be true but cannot be said to be balanced.

As regards food standards, there's a view these restrict consumer choice and increase consumer prices, as they undoubtedly do. It isn't my view that this is a reason to relax controls but it is one that has been expressed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Could not agree more..then again Hitler was also so gifted..

Bah humbug. JRM expresses market fundamentalist and nationalist views that aren't at all unusual on the other side of the pond, he just expresses them in a plummy accent. He isn't a racist or a fascist. I agree with him on practically nothing but can respect that in this age of spin, he actually says what he thinks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

7 reasons why WTO-only  Brexit is bad may be true but cannot be said to be balanced.

As regards food standards, there's a view these restrict consumer choice and increase consumer prices. It isn't my view but it is one that has been expressed.

 

I'm no trade lawyer so I'd be happy to be corrected. I believe the WTO rules require you to offer other member states most favoured nation status ....i.e. uniform tariffs AND “National Treatment” with the later meaning you can apply your national standards (e.g. food safety regs) to imports but you can’t apply to imports standards you don’t apply to your own production.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Bah humbug. JRM expresses market fundamentalist and nationalist views that aren't at all unusual on the other side of the pond, he just expresses them in a plummy accent. He isn't a racist or a fascist. I agree with him on practically nothing but can respect that in this age of spin, he actually says what he thinks.

I'll second that.  I generally don't agree with anything Jacob Rees-Mogg says, but I love the way he says it, and I am embarrassed that nationalist views have become so commonplace on this (the U.S.) side of the Atlantic.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, KC375 said:

een Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, and Northern Ireland  complies with all relevant EU regulations that need to be complied with in the Republic of Ireland

In other words the way to avoid a hard border is:

1.       Stay in the EU;

2.       Leave the EU, lose your influence on EU regulations, but still have to live by (at least some) EU regulation.

2

"It's not a problem"

later

"There is a techncial solution"

now

"The deal is a disaster because it requires a solution to the border for to exit the backstop (i.e. there is no real solution to the border other than staying in the EU)"

Brexiteer logic.

JML logic "I am OK with illegality and black marketeering in order to justify my position on the Irish boarder"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, KC375 said:

I'm no trade lawyer so I'd be happy to be corrected. I believe the WTO rules require you to offer other member states most favoured nation status ....i.e. uniform tariffs AND “National Treatment” with the later meaning you can apply your national standards (e.g. food safety regs) to imports but you can’t apply to imports standards you don’t apply to your own production.

 

WTO rules also require states to maintain effective customs barriers on their borders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

7 reasons why WTO-only  Brexit is bad may be true but cannot be said to be balanced.

As regards food standards, there's a view these restrict consumer choice and increase consumer prices. It isn't my view but it is one that has been expressed

Ah my tongue in cheek did not work well about more balanced, should left it out, sorry.
Yes, food standards restrict choice and increase costs, but you know you have a minimum quality and can trade with other countries that have that standard.
In the EU due to market size the increase is a bit lower, a small country would have a more expensive one, you know shared burden.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

As regards food standards, there's a view these restrict consumer choice and increase consumer prices. It isn't my view but it is one that has been expressed.

 

 

Quite right. They do prevent Polish horse meat from being sold in Lasange in English superstores. After leaving the EU the UK consumer will once again be given this choice ... or not given a choice due to a lack of traceability and labeling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Bah humbug. JRM expresses market fundamentalist and nationalist views that aren't at all unusual on the other side of the pond, he just expresses them in a plummy accent. He isn't a racist or a fascist. I agree with him on practically nothing but can respect that in this age of spin, he actually says what he thinks.

Dog you are right it is dangerous the introduce the H. name or N party into any argument as those words carry so much meaning.

I wasn’t taking Jack to mean that JSM carried a full fascist belief set...just that other people in the past have been compelling while preaching a dangerous message. I’m sure Jack can speak for himself.

I’m a firm believer in free markets including free trade but I’m also a realist that you need access to a market to engage in trade. The GATT and WTO have made huge progress in lowering trade barriers but there is still a long way to go. I can’t see the logic in walking away from one of the biggest markets to go it alone.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

He isn't a racist or a fascist.

 

How about dogmatic fanatic? I times of caos and confusion simple solutions put forward with the confidence of a believer often seem attractive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reese Mogg is not lying, the border will be open, to birds, mice and ants, otherwise he his lying about Brexit to his public, tack back control, with open borders...

People;
but how do they stop illegal immigration EU to UK direction ? At the moment they gather in France and even in the Netherlands to make that trip. Probably will reroute to Ireland to sneak over border.

Goods;
but his reliance on paperwork only works only if you accept EU laws, so he spins nicely. Open border UK to EU, adhere to EU laws, if not, checks are needed. And taxes paid.
They are looking into an electronic solution, UK will spend 400 million Pound on an IT system that has to be operational in 3 months, yeah right....

He must have honed his skills in debate clubs, you know, the ones were you have to defend a point, while not agreeing with it, great practice.
He just want to get out of the EU, fine, but why does he and his ERG need to make false claims...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

He isn't a racist or a fascist.

who said he was? He is simply an opportunist with good communication skills taking advantage of a disinfranchised middle class feeling the pinch at both ends and not too worried about, if not flaming national division by sprouting shit. He is not exactly ploughing a new field in that regard.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep thinking of the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) which we, the national federations, industry bodies and others asked for, and, with how the EU works, put the Commission bureaucrats to work looking at the problem, the different standards, the safety issues both for boaters and workers, and after a long consultation with us all, delivered what we needed. Of course nothing is ever perfect and not everyone will agree, but the RCD even provides logic for importers outside the EU, who have one clear standard and framework to adopt in order to sell to 28 nation states.

Let's fix the things that don't work, from the inside, where we belong. Most other EU countries want the UK to stay, as despite the pig headedness at times, the British are seem as an asset to the community. The British read the small print, bitch if it is dodgy, but implement it once agreed. Not something which holds quite so true across the other 27 ...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

who said he was? He is simply an opportunist with good communication skills taking advantage of a disinfranchised middle class feeling the pinch at both ends and not too worried about, if not flaming national division by sprouting shit. He is not exactly ploughing a new field in that regard.  

No I don't think he's an opportunist, he's a student of history who believes that in the long term, Britain would be best served standing on its own in the world. I happen to think that's a false analysis but it's a case that can be legitimately presented. Nor was the leave vote primarily middle class. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Expatriated said:

For large firms shifting capital round entities isn't a huge problem; a bit of friction but not a big problem 'cos large firms already have legal entities in multiple EU countries. For smaller firms it is a large problem. Complication keeps my paychecks coming in which somehow quickly get recycled into the marine industry... 

So how is the UK making money off it, taxes ? It is a big part of GDP, so how can the EU influence this ?
I have a little experience in export EU to Non EU, and know how complicated supply chains are, but of the financial world I do not know anything of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, LeoV said:


but how do they stop illegal immigration EU to UK direction ? At the moment they gather in France and even in the Netherlands to make that trip. Probably will reroute to Ireland to sneak over border.

 

If they could get to Ireland they'd do that today instead of rotting in Calais. They can't, so they don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

As regards food standards, there's a view these restrict consumer choice and increase consumer prices. It isn't my view but it is one that has been expressed

you forget the cost attached to compliance with the humane slaughter of livestock. Maybe Brexits think that can be forgotten as a cost as meat just arrives in their refrigerator by a quirk of nature?     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

However you Boris and Rees Mogg with a No Deal  Brexit occuring at midnight will pay based on a landed price of around £5,500 per tonne inclusive of additional WTO tariffs and red tape costs.

So the Eu has to export more beef to the UK to compensate for the expensive AUS ones, till they get a cheaper WTO deal with AUS ? I like my red meat, but prefer wild meat, last weekend a stew with meat from a hunter, goose... he delivers swine and dear too, and is not a poacher (anymore), he drinks a lot though...
And Amsterdam is for foreign tourist, a place I avoid as much as possible, Rotterdam or Antwerp for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

f they could get to Ireland they'd do that today instead of rotting in Calais. They can't, so they don't.

And why is that ? It is only a ferry to take. Though I would invest in an outboard and Rib service near Calais if I wanted to make money. They even steal boats in harbours now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

No I don't think he's an opportunist, he's a student of history who believes that in the long term, Britain would be best served standing on its own in the world. I happen to think that's a false analysis but it's a case that can be legitimately presented. Nor was the leave vote primarily middle class

That economic opportunity train left the station 5 decades ago and will take around the same sort of time to prosecute a turnaround of the nature he is promoting. That is either statesmanship, ego or simply bat shit mad, take your pick.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"you forget the cost attached to compliance with the humane slaughter of livestock. Maybe Brexits think that can be forgotten as a cost as meat just arrives in their refrigerator by a quirk of nature?"  

 

Yes, at least some of them think that, hence the debate around animal sentience. As I've already said, it is not my view that standards should be reduced, nor am i in favour of Brexit in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jack_sparrow said:

That economic opportunity train left the station 5 decades ago and will take around the same sort of time to prosecute a turnaround of the nature he is promoting. 

And that is exactly what JRM has said. 50 years after Brexit, it will be a bed of roses. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/jacob-rees-mogg-interview-with-channel-4-news-1-5619425

Bat-shit mad this may be but they aren't the words of an opportunist.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LeoV said:

And why is that ? It is only a ferry to take. Though I would invest in an outboard and Rib service near Calais if I wanted to make money. They even steal boats in harbours now.

Not so easy to get on the ferry without documents. Ireland is not in the Schengen zone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

And that is exactly what JRM has said. 50 years after Brexit, it will be a bed of roses

But a fact he didn't say boo about pre referendum and only admitted it in recent times when the blow torch was applied. He is a door to door vacume cleaner salesman that happens to like top hats and Latin. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Not so easy to get on the ferry without documents. Ireland is not in the Schengen zone.

Yep, and can that change ?

Now they need false papers;
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-44336357

Or fly illegal from small Dutch airstrips to UK small airstrips, a few got caught,  in the future the Dutch overworked police will not react on it, the UK has to check al their airstrips
Dutch only; https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2017/juli/7/11-negen-aanhoudingen-voor-smokkel-albanezen-via-vliegveld-teuge.html

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is more likely that countries will leave the Schengen zone than join it. That's the way the wind is blowing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Yes, at least some of them think that, hence the debate around animal sentience. As I've already said, it is not my view that standards should be reduced, nor am i in favour of Brexit in general.

Keep on bringing on ideas, keeps my mind sharp, this Brexit stuff is my Brainteaser. Why o why I promised to a friend to keep a eye on this, now I am addicted, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, dogwatch said:

It is more likely that countries will leave the Schengen zone than join it. That's the way the wind is blowing.

Winds change all the time,  not an argument. And if Ireland get fed up with the UK, they will not check the papers that close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winds do change but I don't think mass-migration from Africa to Europe is a short-term phenomenon and it is pretty clear that resistance to mass migration is far from solely a British opinion. See what's happening in Italy, Germany, Sweden. Let alone Hungary or Poland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

No I don't think he's an opportunist ....

I thought I read up thread in one of Jack's 'in-depth analysis' that next to JRM's political shenanigans he seems to be pretty well off and doing all right for himself.  I'm fairly certain that him and his 'posh' mates know exactly what industries will take a nose-dive on hard brexshit.  Stock options anybody ?

Why would you otherwise peddle such an agenda that may be so harmful to the country.  Not for Queen and country, that's for sure!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep that is a problem area, good reason to leave the EU, but the question was open borders or not. Keep your border open for refugees, no problem.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cms said:

The British read the small print, bitch if it is dodgy, but implement it once agreed. Not something which holds quite so true across the other 27 ...

 

In some cases the British read the legislation then implement what they want to using it as an excuse, overreaching the EU requirements.

Or they don't implement everything they are entitled to.

Or they trade off entitlements for other commitments and then point the finger at the EU for the downside part fo the deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites