Meat Wad

Brexit, WTF

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Putting aside this Brexit Party head honcho Tice does not understand Consular appointees don't lead Trade negotiations, would love to know where this Farage bed buddy sees himself making a buck out of Brexit? Reintroducing slavery?

 

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4 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

 If DJT wants to rub it in he will carry a whistle to summon Boris.

Why a whistle when he has BJ on a leash?

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why a whistle when he has BJ on a leash?

He likely won't want to be nearby when his new puppy poops the lawn.  Germs and all that...

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11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Gee wizz Sea you are an angry soul. Maybe this might help. Our £100m turnover is a London based vertically integrated agricultural (paddock to processor and 3rd party) 3rd generation global business there in freehold premises since 1962 (to access Euro market) is split around 70/30 EU/UK. Around 2/3 staff and allied contractors are UK citizens so while Brexit prepared, have deferred a decision to relocate to either probably France or the Netherlands until after Xmas.

As a non-executive board member I chair the Brexit Response Committee that sits 3 or 4 times a year. For reasons of preferring anonymity here I have left that detail unsaid.  I'm on a sailboat 10 months of the year, often in non English speaking locales so the internet is a head saviour as well allows me to perform my part time working responsibilities. Yes I do cite my opinions here with publically accessible information for opinion foundation reasons, which does annoy some. Hence I do object to rude basement living/keyboard taunts and respond occasionally with the odd meme, but have no difficulty with opposing opinions, in fact if substantiated look forward to them.

That is not to say they should rest unchallenged, which appears to be your gripe. Don't worry you are not the first as I recall someone here and long gone taking on the subject of pharma products with @Mambo Kings who is actually in that global business. Maybe @mad sock question of you was predicated by that?

Anyway Sea I hope that settles this personel matter to your satisfaction.

As to the Brexit aspect of your post; 

You say that; "the EU dictates all too much the policies through monopolizing the farm output through grant/subsidies/levies etc etc."

That is true albeit the word "monopolising" is not an accurate term as the main purposes of EU primary production subsidies or Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) is across the EU, inclusive of the UK to guarantee "minimum levels of production" to ensure food supply and to ensure a "fair standard of living" for those dependent on agriculture, despite their locale even where in some cases they are constrained by inefficiencies in production, socio economic challenged or maybe climate constraints etc. There other reasons such as environmental, landscape management and historical etc. Mechanisms for maximising national guaranteed supply or self sufficiency in other key things like fuel, energy etc also apply for the same reason. 

The question that first has to be asked is this a bad thing? The universal answer is no. All of the UK's major trading partners outside the EU utilise exactly the same subsidy format for primary producers some more than others. The US is probably the prime example. Hence negotiations between the US and EU on a FTA are currently stalled on account the EU is insisting that FTA will exclude agricultural products, much to Trump's displeasure. If No Deal Brexiteers enamoured with the USA saving their trade bacon can't see that they deserve an uppercut.

Is apportionment of EU subsidies a convoluted and complex arrangement and the subject of lobbying and complaint? Yes it is. Is the UK alone in voicing that complaint from time to time? No it is not. Is the UK constrained in anyway from lobbying for an improved position? Hardly as the UK has the third largest representation in the EU Parliament behind Germany and France, around the same MEP's/population ratio and therefore enjoys priority access to relevant EU MEP Committees.

Has the UK diligently exercised that power to foster UK primary producer interests? To answer that question properly would require 10,000 words. However when I look at UK  MEP Electrol coverage favouring urban areas, no real domination by the major UK parties in the EU Parliament combined with some stupid historical decisions by the UK, I would say not. The latter are things like allowing primary production quotas to be traded even to EU entities (fishing a prime example), that led to monopolisation or say Cameron's decision to have Tory MEP's no longer align themselves with France and Germany as a block which ultimately showed no domestic political gain, but a loss domestically in terms of trade with diminished influence inside the EU.

If I had to pick an extreme example of that diminished UK influence. Farage from the referendum through to today built a Brexit narrative along the subsidy lines you speak of. Yet of all MEP's in the EU Parliament he has I think the lowest attendance of all and did not sit on one trade or primary production/subsidy related MEP Committee in the couple of decades he has been there. It doesn't get more disengenous than that.

By the way don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting some huge imbalance exists that favours the other 27 EU States across the Channel compared to the UK in terms of subsidies. What is forgotten and particularly during the Brexit referendum debate is payments into the EU budget are based on national income whereas the amount a country receives in EU farm subsidies is largely dictated by the size of its agricultural sector. This means a richer, urbanised, nation like the UK, where farming is relatively small, and which is a net food importer, will tend to be a large net contributor to the EU budget. Yet not withstanding that monies the UK pay into the EU budget every year around 70% is received back in payments, mostly in agriculture subsidies and regional development support where direct farm payments I think is maybe around half of that? On the other hand there are swings and roundabouts where the UK recieves back payments attached to its urban nature, particularly in the urban renewal/industry replacement sector in more impoverished areas.

Post Brexit what will change in terms of farm subsidies? In fact very little as the UK for exactly the same prime objective of ensuring food supply and a fair standard of living for those dependent on agriculture, will replicate those same subsidies. I believe UK forward budget estimates already include this until 2028. In other words the UK taxpayer will see no difference and there is no nett gain to the public purse by exiting the EU. A bit like Boris's controversial NHS Bus, but in this case a Pumpkin.

The only difference will be the UK as a net agricultural products importer will no longer be in a large pond and the effectiveness of those subsidies, albeit for the same quantum will be far far less effective for satisfying that prime objective.

Sea I hope that addresses your opinion to your satisfaction, albeit one that challenges it.

Yes 

 

it it is perfectly clear that you are an internet warrior sticking your head in where it doesn’t belong and your information is not first hand but rather taken from google, but no amount of googling will accurately portray the true sentiment on the ground 

the the vast majority of people in rural communities are stuck in a conundrum, vote with their hearts or vote for their pocketbooks 

and lest you misunderstand or misconstrue this point, most people I’ve spoken with over the years about Brexit would rather be out of the European Union but fear the financial repercussions.

 

finally, because it is undeniable that you are no more than a shill, I will do something I’ve never done before in my life.

I will donate to a political party, Nigel’s party. 

In your name of course.

You’re welcome .

 

 

 

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Yes, i too think giving money to a person who lies constantly about everything is a good idea

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EU budget talks yesterday resulted in this;
31 Oct No Deal and in such no WA bill signed, money due on Nov 1 onwards for all projects (and really all projects, even medical research etc) in the UK will stop, no transition period.
Pre-emptive strike on the transition talks of BJ. And an action you would expect.

Michel Barnier met Stephen Barclay yesterday and once again rejected the British gov request to ringfence citizens' rights part of the Brexit agreement. The EU remains absolutely firm that it will not reopen the withdrawal agreement.
The Dexeu hopes to convince the EU to change its mind, by stressing no-deal impact, esp on Ireland. “I think a no-deal outcome would be very damaging for Ireland,” Barclay said.

And from the EU counsel they just points to this;
D_GKc1pXUAEpkL0.png
 

44 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

the vast majority of people in rural communities are stuck in a conundrum, vote with their hearts or vote for their pocketbooks 

Maybe they should start using their brains to decide.

 

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7 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Agree he likely would have left anyway.  Whatever he does next will likely be more fun and less aggravating so may be a step up.  It's like being overheard in the church calling the bride and groom ugly and tasteless but still attending the reception anyway.  Brexit has made the UK vulnerable to the US position (whatever it will be, seems to change randomly these days on many issues) post Brexit (if it actually happens) that will leave them unusually at the beck and call of the US.  If DJT wants to rub it in he will carry a whistle to summon Boris.

He will have several very highly paid offers already by now and is probably happy to be out of it, although wishing of better circumstances. 

The idea of being the middle msn between Trump and Boris is daunting for almost everyone. 

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3 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

 

finally, because it is undeniable that you are no more than a shill, I will do something I’ve never done before in my life.

 

I've only seen shill used by one other person on this forum.

 

 

Welcome to the Brexit thread, sock of Random....

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20 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I've only seen shill used by one other person on this forum.

 

 

Welcome to the Brexit thread, sock of Random....

I’m not sure it’s Random, but it’s definitely a sock. 

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”a quick US trade deal.“-That's my laugh of the day. 

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

I’m not sure it’s Random, but it’s definitely a sock. 

besides the use of Shill, the writing and the clear hots for Jack is so Random like

 

EugeneLambertAndJudgeThePuppet_large.jpg

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

EU budget talks yesterday resulted in this;
31 Oct No Deal and in such no WA bill signed, money due on Nov 1 onwards for all projects (and really all projects, even medical research etc) in the UK will stop, no transition period.
Pre-emptive strike on the transition talks of BJ. And an action you would expect.

Michel Barnier met Stephen Barclay yesterday and once again rejected the British gov request to ringfence citizens' rights part of the Brexit agreement. The EU remains absolutely firm that it will not reopen the withdrawal agreement.
The Dexeu hopes to convince the EU to change its mind, by stressing no-deal impact, esp on Ireland. “I think a no-deal outcome would be very damaging for Ireland,” Barclay said.

And from the EU counsel they just points to this;
D_GKc1pXUAEpkL0.png
 

Maybe they should start using their brains to decide.

 

So the EU's position is, the deal is the deal is the deal and because May agreed to it, that's it? No further changes possible?

There are 2 counters to that stance other than either taking the deal or totally giving up on leaving.

1. Revoke Art 50 - EU has no say in that. Then negotiate afresh. If the same hard-line results, trigger another leave event thereby causing this crap to go on for years more.

2. Leave without an agreement.

Personally I'd be going for option 2, declaring the border to be in the Irish Sea (fuck NI, they're a bunch of troublemakers) or just declaring NI an open borders free trade area and defying the EU to enforce restrictions on the hard border *they* insist on.

But I've no skin in the game and am a long way away.........

FKT

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1 hour ago, mad said:

I’m not sure it’s Random, but it’s definitely a sock. 

 

1 hour ago, hoppy said:

besides the use of Shill, the writing and the clear hots for Jack is so Random like

 

 

Hoppy has a pretty good prima facie case for Random.

For amusement I did a site search on "shill"

Random is not the only user of that term but clearly the dominant user.

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5 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

finally, because it is undeniable that you are no more than a shill, I will do something I’ve never done before in my life.

I will donate to a political party, Nigel’s party. 

The BP will welcome your money as they urgently need to print new placards for their Billy Graham style rally's. The "Leave on A.24 Terms" one has already bitten the dust. 

You know the favourite sovereignty one that has everyone singing away waving their glow sticks saying "Take Back Control" ....well thats gone too .....seems Boris has handed that control over to Trump.

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

2. Leave without an agreement.

Personally I'd be going for option 2, declaring the border to be in the Irish Sea (fuck NI, they're a bunch of troublemakers) or just declaring NI an open borders free trade area and defying the EU to enforce restrictions on the hard border *they* insist on.

The EU would agree to a WA with Irish Sea border in a heartbeat, it is what they originally offered up before May insisted it stay where it is and invented the Backstop to implement it. The DUP (and1/3 of NI) will go apeshit as another Republic stone is layed, but I'm sure someone else will step in to keep the Govt alive in Westminister in exchange for getting rid of a No Deal outcome. Boris could end up a hero.

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

I've only seen shill used by one other person on this forum.

 

 

Welcome to the Brexit thread, sock of Random....

You’re from Ozz then?

Well, I spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory back in the day and I’ve seen first hand  what cultural enrichment did for the native Australians. The audacity of you to speak on the subject.

 

 

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5 hours ago, LeoV said:

The Dexeu hopes to convince the EU to change its mind, by stressing no-deal impact, esp on Ireland. “I think a no-deal outcome would be very damaging for Ireland,” Barclay said.

Barclay/Boris trying use Republic of Ireland as a hostage is a pretty dangerous game. A lot of the No Deal pain that the ROI will feel doesn't mysteriously stop at the border. 

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1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

 

Well, I spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory back in the day and I’ve seen first hand  what cultural enrichment did for the native Australians. 

 

 

yeah, no, yeah, that sounds totally believable.  And you're in Northern Ireland now.  Surely.

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1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

You’re from Ozz then?

Well, I spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory back in the day and I’ve seen first hand  what cultural enrichment did for the native Australians. The audacity of you to speak on the subject.

In your dreams Randum....

 

 

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On 7/10/2019 at 5:05 AM, Sea warrior said:

I’m nobody’s sock.

 

giphy.gif

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9 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

..the the vast majority of people in rural communities are stuck in a conundrum, vote with their hearts or vote for their pocketbooks...

 

8 hours ago, LeoV said:

Maybe they should start using their brains to decide.

At the time of the referendum it is clear a vast majority voted with their "heart" not their "brains."

They can be easily forgiven for that. This was because they then simply ticked the "Leave" box, where "Brexit was "whatever you wanted it to be". The words now engrained in the UK vocabulary to describe Brexit like, "soft", "hard", "Deal", "No Deal", WTO Terms blah blah didn't really exist. At the time of the referendums announcement by Cameron probably half the country had to Google "European Union".

However today Brexit has narrowed down to just two particular forms, "Deal" or "No Deal" under which it can be executed, so some people are starting to use their "brains" not their "hearts". This is when support to Brexit starts becoming unglued.

We saw in Westminister many from the ERG and hardcore Brexiteer camp vote in favour for Maybot Deal #3 inclusive of the Backstop, albeit it failed because Labour and SNP played politics not the Brexit/country's best interest game and the DUP because the Backstop accelerates prospects of a NI border poll. The hardcore Brexiteers folded then understanding as options became limited and the "definition" of Brexit narrowed, the prospect of Brexit succeeding started to diminish.

Today courtesy of the EU refusing to budge on opening the current Deal up for renegotiation, and both PM candidates failing to indicate how they can turn that, Brexit is now down to the "narrowest" definition of all, a "No Deal".

Voters and those in Westminister are now more likely to start using their "brains" and discontinue supporting Brexit if Brexiteers don't wise up. This more than just pros and cons but simply because it is no longer a; "making Brexit what you wanted it to be", but something now with a very very "narrow definition" and set of consequences.

The most recent polls showing 72% "brains" opposing a No Deal Brexit to 28% "hearts" for it, seem to underpin that link between Brexit "definition" and direct "support" for it.

It is probably going to get down to May's Deal, May's Deal with No Backstop but NI border in the Irish Sea or A.50 Recinded.

IMG_20190627_142523.thumb.jpg.e5b0bc6cc62ccde2aaa83295c7df5739.jpg

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3 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

Well, I spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory back in the day and I’ve seen first hand  what cultural enrichment did for the native Australians. 

Yes.. the locals there in NT still remember fondly the cultural enrichment you provided.

images - 2019-07-11T150216.403.jpeg

images - 2019-07-11T150424.419.jpeg

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This Govt Report comprising a couple of dozen papers titled How to prepare if the UK leaves the EU with no deal that was released in August last year (and updated since) appears to have been forgotten by the media as guidance for asking probing questions of the two PM candidates.

Their answers like the contents therein would be pretty mind boggling.

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4 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

You’re from Ozz then?

Well, I spent a lot of time in the Northern Territory back in the day and I’ve seen first hand  what cultural enrichment did for the native Australians. The audacity of you to speak on the subject.

Yeah, one of my GF's came across mobs of drunken tourists from the UK when she was in Darwin for a holiday. Piss heads, aggressive and stupid.

FKT

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Buried in No Deal Brexit preparation documentation that might interest some here is Maritime vessels and work at sea. Of the many sections and outside vessel itself is Hiring Crew for Vessels and Yachts. That includes checking crew qualifications, certificates of competency, crew agreements, travel documents and crew lists etc.

Probably biggest impact is Certificate of Competency (CoC) or Certificate of Equivalent Competency (CEC) to carry out certain duties. For instance you have a GMDSS Radio requiring an operator's certificate for either operation and or securing a ship stations licence Radio Operators need New CoCs

This is all supposed to occur overnight with currently no UK laws and regulations drafted, let alone enacted and with out any form of transitional period according to Boris. It just hey presto occurs overnight on 31 October. That should be interesting.

Wouldn't want to be relying on an insurance policy to be watertight without all this stuff in place.

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7 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

So the EU's position is, the deal is the deal is the deal and because May agreed to it, that's it? No further changes possible?

The deal on the table is the most basic one, citizens right, outstanding and future payments of being in the EU, and North Ireland.
So it is very minimal, EU can not go less minimal without making it No Deal.
Of course if UK says now border in the Irish sea, NI in customs union with EU, that can be talked about.
But nobody is talking that language in the UK, so I reckon the EU has no signals in that area too, hence their reply.

Making NI an area without border controls after leaving the EU is a big risk for the unity of the UK, you need control of who is coming in with what. And then I do not mean the law abiding traders but good ssmugglers and arms dealers and people smugglers. So it is an UK unicorn to say that.

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Read this politico interview with BJ (boozing with bojo) , and one article of a BJ supporting MP and all you can conclude,
the BJ team still thinks it can bully the EU like in the 80's as nothing has changed. Thatcher did it so we can do too.
And they are talking up No Deal, but never talk about the negative effects it will have.

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-boozing-with-bojo-a-special-relationship-last-nights-telly/

https://www.michael.fabricant.mp.co.uk/2019/07/11/being-sensible-failed-to-get-a-good-brexit-deal-we-need-a-little-madness/

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About NI and NO Deal, customs set aside 4 billion for spending after NO Deal, and that will not only be spend in Dover.
The UK army has 3500 soldiers planned to come into action after No deal, and if you think they will skip sending them to NI I think you are in for a surprise.

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This vid will make you both laugh and ask the question why is the UK different to other western democracies about supplementary income for persons holding public office?

Boris day job's before becoming Mayor and MP was that of a reporter, incl a stint on the Daily Telegraph's Brussels desk and as editor of the Spectator (while also becoming a MP which he promised the publisher Conrad Black he wouldn't do).

So not exactly positions that put you into or lead to joining the Sunday Times Rich List

The reporters question in this vid was obviously aimed at, but poorly executed, and that BoJo quickly  skirted as is his forte, was is he currently chasing the keys to #10 and putting the UK second?

Boris must have dementia forgetting that it wasn't until joining public life that the £ started to roll in. For instance his weekly Daily Telegraph column today is a salary of £275,000 or say 10 hours a month equals an hourly rate of £2,291 which he responded to as being "chicken feed". One speech he earns £51,000 and yet more, yet at the same time has his snout in the public purse as an MP and for a stint a Minister that doubles the salary? It also seems he has been using US citizenship to to avoid paying tax in the UK. Parliamentry register of outside interests shows Boris is at the top of the tree.

So his lame response in this vid about being poor as a public servant some pyschologists would make hay with. Is he alter egoing Hunt who made a few bob before joining public life where it is claimed he is the richest of those sitting around the Cabinet Table? Is it a case of "my dick would be bigger than Jeremy's" if I hadn't subscribed to public service thing? Some Trump in reverse thing happening maybe? Who knows?

All very weird dynamics for someone saying he the best credentialed as leader to bring the UK together once appointed by 160,000 Tory MP's in a fortnight.

PS. Seems he is not alone. Farage it is claimed is getting  £30,000 a month from outside earnings in addition to rent free contras etc from Banks etc while being a UK MEP paid by the UK taxpayer. Yep he is well placed to lead the dissaffected, poor and undertroden in the UK to the Brexit promised land.

 

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Boris Johnson has fretted to confidants that ministers might sign up to his no deal policy to start with but go wobbly as the Brexit deadline draws closer, resigning at the government’s moment of maximum vulnerability.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/the-most-important-decision-that-boris-has-to-make/

From twitter;
What? He worried that he might have back-stabbing double dealing bastards out to maximise their own political gain by trying to ride two horses at once in his Cabinet? Can't think where they could have got that idea.

Simple solution, fill the cabinet with people like Mark Francois and Steve Baker.

s-l300.jpg A cabinet filled with unicorns...

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Buried in No Deal Brexit preparation documentation that might interest some here is Maritime vessels and work at sea. Of the many sections and outside vessel itself is Hiring Crew for Vessels and Yachts. That includes checking crew qualifications, certificates of competency, crew agreements, travel documents and crew lists etc.

Probably biggest impact is Certificate of Competency (CoC) or Certificate of Equivalent Competency (CEC) to carry out certain duties. For instance you have a GMDSS Radio requiring an operator's certificate for either operation and or securing a ship stations licence Radio Operators need New CoCs

This is all supposed to occur overnight with currently no UK laws and regulations drafted, let alone enacted and with out any form of transitional period according to Boris. It just hey presto occurs overnight on 31 October. That should be interesting.

Wouldn't want to be relying on an insurance policy to be watertight without all this stuff in place.

Jack, you have me slightly confused , are you trying to say that before brexit there is no need for CoC or CeC in the UK ? ... coupe of years ago  big part of my job was making sure that all the guys working for us who go to sea are fully certified, the documents that I see there, the application form and all that is mentioned inthere is the normal stuff which exists already for years, I don't think brexit changes any of it, unless I missed something, so care to tell me what I'm missing ?

Half of the vessels that worked for us were british based, and all of the crew (skipper and co-skipper usually british, rest of crew usually fillipino) had those certificates (depending on their job), otherwise it's a no-go, and we're extremely strict on it, I just can't believe that the same would not be needed in the UK and suddenly would be needed due to a brexit ? inquiring minds want to know ;-)

 

p.s. there is one wee little detail that might cause some problems though, but I'm out of the loop now so don't know and maybe that's just the part I'm missing :  a skipper of a work vessel like the ones servicing windfarms needs an STCW-A-II/2 license in Europe, whereas in the UK a yachtmaster commercial is ok,so the british workvessels come in with yachtmasters calling the shots,  there was always a bit of a debate if a yachtmaster would be equivalent to STCW but we had to accept it, now after brexit this question might take another turn

 

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47 minutes ago, Albatros said:

Jack, you have me slightly confused , are you trying to say that before brexit there is no need for CoC or CeC in the UK ? ... I don't think brexit changes any of it, unless I missed something, so care to tell me what I'm missing ?

No not what I'm saying. Maybe this helps better explain in really simplistic terms.

Think what is required for certification etc pre Brexit and post Brexit there is no change. The change is pre Brexit the UK and EU had regulatory alignment via common EU laws and regulations for all those things required. Post Brexit the UK has to replace those previous EU regulations with those of their own which then means the prior EU based certifications etc fall away and get replaced by UK only counterparts. Then if there is going to be regulatory alignment like that which existed pre Brexit, both the UK and the EU have to agree to each other's now seperate laws and regulations.

The idea was Brexit with a Deal had all this stuff occuring over a transition period of a couple of years. A No Deal Brexit means it has to happen at the stroke of midnight on 31 October if it is to properly function. Expecting that to occur is the biggest Unicorn of all.

Hope that makes sense.

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4 hours ago, LeoV said:

About NI and NO Deal, customs set aside 4 billion for spending after NO Deal, and that will not only be spend in Dover.
The UK army has 3500 soldiers planned to come into action after No deal, and if you think they will skip sending them to NI I think you are in for a surprise.

I think that 4 billion budget might be under a lot of pressure. Someone may have forgotten to zip over to Nth Ireland and find out the removal of border watchtowers was traded for the decommissioning of IRA weapons all courtesy of the GFA, but took many years post GFA to occur.

It has been said that the British Army from these border watchtowers could read the speedometer dials of cars driving below, distinguish patterns on the wallpaper inside houses, see what was eaten for breakfast and hear what was said over the breakfast table.

So maybe this is in Boris's mind for there being no need for hard border check points and that being done remotely, combined of course with livestock face recognition technology.

Fuckwits.

lon89235-teaser-story-big.jpg

lon89225-teaser-xxl.jpg

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Think what is required for certification etc pre Brexit and post Brexit there is no change.

@Jack Sparrow @Albatros Gents,  non UK deck officers and engineers serving on UK vessels have always required UK CeC's before signing on.  The exception being that masters can only serve for 6 months on a temp CeC before sitting a UKLAP exam to obtain a UK CoC.  At the moment I have not heard from my crewing dept that that is going to change.

The snag is that the UKLAP covers every conceivable merchant discipline, from workboat to cruise ships to bulkers and everything inbetween.  Understandable that a tug skipper will struggle with that.  We put 2 through the program which isn't cheap.  1 failed miserably, the other succeeded by a whisker.  Records are kept till eternity by the MCA so after 6 months ... that's it! 

Regretfully the last few years we have not been able to sign on Phillipino A/B's in the UK anymore and worse, on one vessel that was trading in and out of the UK for an extended period of time the PH mate, A/B & engineer were nearly forcibly removed by Borderforce  as in ......."if you don't send them packing" ......" we will"  (thanks to the 'Hostile Environment)

True that the UK 200T Yachtmaster (commercially endorsed) is acceptable in the UK for workboats and small tugs/multicats but there has already been fopposition and misunderstandings on the continent regarding this certification.

Irish Maritime Administration does not accept/recognize the Yachtmaster certificate for vessels operating in their territorial waters so we always have to put a extra skipper on with a UK STCW 200T CoC.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

No not what I'm saying. Maybe this helps better explain in really simplistic terms.

Think what is required for certification etc pre Brexit and post Brexit there is no change. The change is pre Brexit the UK and EU had regulatory alignment via common EU laws and regulations for all those things required. Post Brexit the UK has to replace those previous EU regulations with those of their own which then means the prior EU based certifications etc fall away and get replaced by UK only counterparts. Then if there is going to be regulatory alignment like that which existed pre Brexit, both the UK and the EU have to agree to each other's now seperate laws and regulations.

The idea was Brexit with a Deal had all this stuff occuring over a transition period of a couple of years. A No Deal Brexit means it has to happen at the stroke of midnight on 31 October if it is to properly function. Expecting that to occur is the biggest Unicorn of all.

Hope that makes sense.

yes, I see where you're getting at, but have to remark that the rules and regulations come basically from IMO,  as such it is not a EU thing by definition unless of course there is a EU rules that it's IMO and nothing else,  if UK goes along IMO rules there is no problem, but remember my yachtmaster versus STCW skipper license remark, looking at the document you have linked to, it might indeed mean that the UK would now fully align to IMO rules and that might be a big bugger for a load of british skippers, unless of course a transition is accepted where current yachtmaster commercials with sufficient mileage are equalled to STCW.

One thing in that application form you posted caused some additional surprise : it states that no Opito  safety certificate is accepted, that's weird, as Opito is one of the most accepted standards, it came about by your own oil industry in the north sea, or, grin, is it because it's Aberdeen based and hence not really Brit ? grin

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2 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

@Jack Sparrow @Albatros Gents,  non UK deck officers and engineers serving on UK vessels have always required UK CeC's before signing on.  The exception being that masters can only serve for 6 months on a temp CeC before sitting a UKLAP exam to obtain a UK CoC.  At the moment I have not heard from my crewing dept that that is going to change.

The snag is that the UKLAP covers every conceivable merchant discipline, from workboat to cruise ships to bulkers and everything inbetween.  Understandable that a tug skipper will struggle with that.  We put 2 through the program which isn't cheap.  1 failed miserably, the other succeeded by a whisker.  Records are kept till eternity by the MCA so after 6 months ... that's it! 

Regretfully the last few years we have not been able to sign on Phillipino A/B's in the UK anymore and worse, on one vessel that was trading in and out of the UK for an extended period of time the PH mate, A/B & engineer were nearly forcibly removed by Borderforce  as in ......."if you don't send them packing" ......" we will"  (thanks to the 'Hostile Environment)

True that the UK 200T Yachtmaster (commercially endorsed) is acceptable in the UK for workboats and small tugs/multicats but there has already been fopposition and misunderstandings on the continent regarding this certification.

Irish Maritime Administration does not accept/recognize the Yachtmaster certificate for vessels operating in their territorial waters so we always have to put a extra skipper on with a UK STCW 200T CoC.

 

 

thanks for confirmation, my background in this respect is indeed mostly related to workboats, multicats and special vessels (like jack-ups and cable laying vessels) working on the windfarms, and yes, overhere this yachtmaster license acceptance was always a bit of a debate and brexit might reopen the debate, but ironically if yachtmaster commercial would not be accepted anymore then some local companies (in Oostende for example) might also be affected as they have been running some of their vessels under british flag just because -and this is not hearsay, it's just what the general manager of one of those companies told me- "it's easier to get a yachtmaster commercial than STCW, so it's easier for us to find skippers and we're always in need of them" (whether it's true that it's easier, I don't know, and usually the british skippers are o.k.)

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Oh I forgot to say in addition to Boris's plans for the seamless livestock crossing of the Irish border courtesy of cow face recognition technology, there are actually people there too, some who haven't yet seen their local hard border come down, let alone god forbid have one come back. 

When Boris was told there are "gated communities" in Belfast, he must have  thought; lucky buggers I wonder if they have one of Trumpy's golf courses?

 This Sky vid is dated this time last year, 20 years after the GFA.

 

images - 2019-07-11T220354.092.jpeg

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51 minutes ago, Albatros said:

yes, I see where you're getting at, but have to remark that the rules and regulations come basically from IMO,  as such it is not a EU thing by definition unless of course there is a EU rules that it's IMO and nothing else,  if UK goes along IMO rules there is no problem, ...

Yes those come from IMO and that applies world wide but IMO is only an International Treaty.

IMO or other aspects then have to be converted into local laws and regulations for things like certification, enforcement and penalties etc. There is no suggestion the UK won't follow exactly as it has now being a member of the EU.

However they have to first draft all those new UK statutes and regulations, across 4 unions with varied devolved powers and have them enacted via Westminister, including ensuring there is regulatory alignment with the EU if they think that necessary to facilitate reciprocal rights and expectations ie UK registered vessel in a EU member states waters and visa versa. In doing all that the UK may have to put in place new or revised departmental responsibilities or even add new hard infrastructure.

That is the underlying problem with there being no transitional period for exiting the EU with no deal.

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38 minutes ago, Albatros said:

 "it's easier to get a yachtmaster commercial than STCW, so it's easier for us to find skippers and we're always in need of them" (whether it's true that it's easier, I don't know, and usually the british skippers are o.k.)

I'm sure you can because the ticket held + experience decides the day rate.

Also a lot of 'old' fishermen got their Yachtmaster on the back of their fishing tickets yonks ago.  We have a few and ye old, time served old dogs can spin a tug on a penny. Not saying that a fully ticketed up young bloke cannot but experience on the sticks counts for a lot in this game.

My eldest went through the UKSA in Cowes and came out with more certs than my arm is long, including a shiny Yachtmaster Offshore, but I wouldn't let him anywhere near my 24 footer, that's for sure. :lol:

Also a lot of windfarm jockey's think they can drive anything .....ehm ...... NOT !!! 

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1 hour ago, Laser1 said:

I'm sure you can because the ticket held + experience decides the day rate.

Also a lot of 'old' fishermen got their Yachtmaster on the back of their fishing tickets yonks ago.  We have a few and ye old, time served old dogs can spin a tug on a penny. Not saying that a fully ticketed up young bloke cannot but experience on the sticks counts for a lot in this game.

My eldest went through the UKSA in Cowes and came out with more certs than my arm is long, including a shiny Yachtmaster Offshore, but I wouldn't let him anywhere near my 24 footer, that's for sure. :lol:

Also a lot of windfarm jockey's think they can drive anything .....ehm ...... NOT !!! 

The quailty of the output from the UKSA is debatable :ph34r:

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Quite funny how we all look in first thing in the morning looking for Jack and Leo’s big exposees of the day which they loyally woken early to have ready for breakfast time reading by us minions. 

We minions then spend the rest of the day going “ well it might not be quite such a drama that can’t be solved relatively quickly “ or as more often in my case “ you’ve only mentioned half the story “ . 

On nautical terms at last and is there not a bit of a nautical elephant in the harbour, that of all the “Fat Pangs” British flagged gin palaces such as Jacks daddies boat that will now have to be EU registered and with that having to be owned by an EU country registered company which then exposes said company to EU taxes.

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

... or as more often in my case “ you’ve only mentioned half the story “ . 

...

What a shame then you're not doing much to actually provide the other half of the story, apart from the very inadequate 'Trust us, it'll be allright' mantra which is all we've been hearing from the Brexiteers since before the referendum...

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16 minutes ago, LeoV said:

A great line from that article:

"most of those with the technical expertise to deliver Brexit think it is a terrible idea and, conversely, most of those who think it is a great idea don’t have the technical expertise to deliver it."

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29 minutes ago, LeoV said:

This article reminds one of Steve Bannon identifying “the deconstruction of the administrative state” as one of the priorities (lines of work) of the Trump White House.

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Remember how quickly May chased down the Huawei Cabinet leaker and leading to the sacking of Williamson.

Wonder if she will put same effort in and try and identify which Brexiteer leaked the Ambassadors notes to that Farage friendly journo. If she can't she could still inact revenge against that unknown colleague by appointing her own man, or woman as the new Ambassador before stepping down.

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Remember how quickly May chased down the Huawei Cabinet leaker and leading to the sacking of Williamson.

Wonder if she will put same effort in and try and identify which Brexiteer leaked the Ambassadors notes to that Farage friendly journo. If she can't she could still inact revenge against that unknown colleague by appointing her own man, or woman as the new Ambassador before stepping down.

https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1148909339106824193?s=21

Quote

Make Sadiq Khan ambassador to the US.

 

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If Sadiq unavailable what about Corbyn. Kill two birds with one stone. Speaking Ambassadors Farage is a shoe in for Malaysia. Word "Faraj" is "Cunt" in Malay.

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Interesting article on how Brexit/DUP may contribute to a progressive united ireland

Warning, as the article states:

"Explaining any aspect of Northern Irish politics in depth is a bit like giving a friend an update on all those operations that your dog has just had – it’s obviously sad, complicated, and painful, but without ever actually being interesting, which means that the second you begin speaking, your pal is only half-listening, and merely waiting for a polite moment to change the subject"

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Latest BMG Research Poll

No Deal only attracts the support of one-third of the public but largest choice when only one outcome selection and is still majority choice of Leavers. This 2/3 No Deal opposition is starting to repeat in a number of polls.

Split on most of the outcomes with no clear majority with exception opposition to May's Deal and No Deal. 

- Revoking the UK’s notice of withdrawal and remaining the EU comes out on top with a net score of +5%.

- Holding a second in-out referendum (+2%).

- Leaving the EU without a deal  (-6%)

- Various hypothetical referendums all favour revoking A.50 except No Deal trumped May's Deal.

Bottom line is public still extremely divided in fact compromise solutions like May’s deal and the option of extending the deadline are alongside No Deal as the least popular outcomes.

Remainers and Leavers are still in their trenches.

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33 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Interesting article on how Brexit/DUP may contribute to a progressive united ireland

Warning, as the article states:

"Explaining any aspect of Northern Irish politics in depth is a bit like giving a friend an update on all those operations that your dog has just had – it’s obviously sad, complicated, and painful, but without ever actually being interesting, which means that the second you begin speaking, your pal is only half-listening, and merely waiting for a polite moment to change the subject"

In one of my many Irish pieces upthread (that in hindsight are like explaining ones dogs operations and tune out occurs) I mentioned that the DUP were badly overplaying their hand in a number of instances. That is first article I have seen start to recognise that intransigence of the DUP is their weakness. Maybe journalists simply stay away from NI articles because of the dog thing?

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20 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

yeah, no, yeah, that sounds totally believable.  And you're in Northern Ireland now.  Surely.

I’m not from the 6 counties but given the amount of stupid in this thread it’s not surprising that you think so. 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

IMG_20190627_142523.thumb.jpg.e5b0bc6cc62ccde2aaa83295c7df5739.jpg

That poll clearly shows that a majority(57%)  wish to get the fuck out of the EU

Why do you hate democracy?

 

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I think that 4 billion budget might be under a lot of pressure. Someone may have forgotten to zip over to Nth Ireland and find out the removal of border watchtowers was traded for the decommissioning of IRA weapons all courtesy of the GFA, but took many years post GFA to occur.

It has been said that the British Army from these border watchtowers could read the speedometer dials of cars driving below, distinguish patterns on the wallpaper inside houses, see what was eaten for breakfast and hear what was said over the breakfast table.

So maybe this is in Boris's mind for there being no need for hard border check points and that being done remotely, combined of course with livestock face recognition technology.

Fuckwits.

lon89235-teaser-story-big.jpg

lon89225-teaser-xxl.jpg

I remember those days well Jack,

you ever been there back in the day?

18 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes.. the locals there in NT still remember fondly the cultural enrichment you provided.

images - 2019-07-11T150216.403.jpeg

images - 2019-07-11T150424.419.jpeg

I seem to be getting to you Jackie.

Keep posting your bullshit, it’s only helping the voters renew and reinforce their resolve.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah, one of my GF's came across mobs of drunken tourists from the UK when she was in Darwin for a holiday. Piss heads, aggressive and stupid.

FKT

I agree.

those Brits can be an uncouth lot 

:-)

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20 hours ago, hoppy said:

In your dreams Randum....

 

 

 

“In my dreams I was drowning my sorrows

but my sorrow, they learnt to swim 

surrounding me, going down on me

spilling over the brim”

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

I’m not from the 6 counties but given the amount of stupid in this thread it’s not surprising that you think so. 

 

 

 

Nah, we all know you are from Queensland, Mr Randumbarse

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

In one of my many Irish pieces upthread (that in hindsight are like explaining ones dogs operations and tune out occurs) I mentioned that the DUP were badly overplaying their hand in a number of instances. That is first article I have seen start to recognise that intransigence of the DUP is their weakness. Maybe journalists simply stay away from NI articles because of the dog thing?

Politics and policy sometimes reacts to overextension or overreach by swing hard the other way.

Their was significant weakening of the Presidency as a result of Watergate. Cheney used 9/11 as an excuse to rebuild the imperial presidency. I suspect the reaction to trump will be a diminishment in presidential power and a swing to more “liberal” policies.

Who knows what the reaction to a Brexit train wreck will be.

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Maidstone hustings.

Much the same ole. Bringing back shipbuilding a Boris add on, not sure why the people of Kent would be interested in that, maybe he thought he was in Nth Eng?

However an interesting narrative from Boris being repeated time over word perfect. Leaving with No Deal is the best thing since sliced bread, great for the country blah blah...BUT then he blames the EU if that was to happen. In other words leaving with No Deal is a bad thing???? 

This is bullshit and doublespeak on a unimaginable scale. 

 

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15 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Nah, we all know you are from Queensland, Mr Randumbarse

Not really but I passed through Three Ways in the NT once and was shocked at the effects of “cultural enrichment” on the natives.

whats not to like about that shit.

 

Ever been to Three Ways?

 

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11 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Not really but I passed through Three Ways in the NT once

 

i betcha have a black friend too

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5 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

i betcha have a black friend too

What his you say?

 

 

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/financial-stability-report/2019/july-2019

 

“The core of the UK financial system, including banks, dealers and insurance companies, is resilient to, and prepared for, the wide range of risks it could face, including a worst-case disorderly Brexit.   

The perceived likelihood of a no-deal Brexit has increased since the start of the year.”

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2 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

That poll clearly shows that a majority(57%)  wish to get the fuck out of the EU

Why do you hate democracy?

 

The poll clearly shows that a majority prefer to stay in the EU without an agreement. 

Why do you hate a condition precedent?

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23 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Ever been to Three Ways?

 

No but I have had one, with two very lovely "close" women. 

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7 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

What his you say?

 

 

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/financial-stability-report/2019/july-2019

 

“The core of the UK financial system, including banks, dealers and insurance companies, is resilient to, and prepared for, the wide range of risks it could face, including a worst-case disorderly Brexit.   

The perceived likelihood of a no-deal Brexit has increased since the start of the year.”

nonsequitur says what?

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14 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

i betcha have a black friend too

yes he does..

 

2015713205323_wiseowl.jpg

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43 minutes ago, hoppy said:

yes he does..

 

2015713205323_wiseowl.jpg

Well that’s ‘nice’

 

did you get that picture off the Internet or from your private collection?

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1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

What his you say?

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/financial-stability-report/2019/july-2019

“The core of the UK financial system, including banks, dealers and insurance companies, is resilient to, and prepared for, the wide range of risks it could face, including a worst-case disorderly Brexit. 

The perceived likelihood of a no-deal Brexit has increased since the start of the year.”

You should really read first information you post.

That is a Bank of England "financial stability report" for major UK banks and insurers. In otherwords it shows they can ride out the storm and won't go "belly up" in the event of a worst-case No Deal Brexit.

It does not address mitigation by those insitutions that have already moved/in process of moving their EU financial desks to the EU along with their capital and services income. It is not an indicator of post Brexit economic health or a reflective pointer to the exchange rate. Some pundits suggest it might hit parity with the dollar, or a further hit of 20% of over and above the 20% hit already since 2016. 

What's your next trick, spoon bending?

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45 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

nonsequitur says what?

Well, firstly, It’s not a nonsequitur, it’s not even a non sequitur.

what it is is the Bank Of England’s report formulated from research and analysis which points out in a reasoned and intelligent fashion the pros and cons of Brexit from a financial point of view.

I know you nancys aren’t much interested in such things as reasoned analysis,  preferring instead to post regurgitated bs from likeminded loons on the Internet but there you have it.

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You should really read first information you post.

That is a Bank of England "financial stability report" for major UK banks and insurers. In otherwords it shows they can ride the storm and won't go "belly up" in the event of a worst-case No Deal Brexit.

It does not address those insitutions that have already moved/in process of moving their EU financial desks to the EU along with their capital and services income. It is not an indicator of post Brexit economic health or pointer to the exchange rate, which some pundits suggest might hit parity with the dollar, or a further hit of 20% of over and above the 20% hit already since 2016. 

What's your next trick, spoon bending?

Lol

 

 

grabbing at straws are we?

 

“Most risks to UK financial stability from disruption to cross-border financial services in a no-deal Brexit have been mitigated.“

 

 

 

 

booo!!!!!!

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12 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

grabbing at straws are we?

“Most risks to UK financial stability from disruption to cross-border financial services in a no-deal Brexit have been mitigated.“

booo!!!!!!

Randumb yes they have been "mitigated"...by moving to Europe. Do you dream of the day a machine will be invented so sensitive it can pick up your IQ?

18 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

It does not address mitigation by those insitutions that have already moved/in process of moving their EU financial desks to the EU along with their capital and services income

 

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Randumb yes they have been "mitigated"...by moving to Europe. Do you dream of the day a machine will be invented so sensitive it can pick up your IQ?

Lol

 

I don’t know who Randumb nor do I understand the reference or even care  but I do know a dumbass when I see one, dumbass.

 

Now, I’m not suggesting that there  won’t be pain and that report clearly states that there will be but it will be short term and the sky won’t fall. 

Of course Nincompoops like yourself might feel the pinch but the rest of us will get over it.

 

Quote

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

 Of course Nincompoops like yourself might feel the pinch but the rest of us will get over it.

As you neither live nor have any financial interests in the UK you will get over it quickly.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

As you neither live nor have any financial interests in the UK you will get over it quickly.

Unlike you (apparently), with or without Brexit I will still be able to live legally in the UK, Europe, Ireland, the US or even South America for that matter, so I really have little or nothing to loose and lots to gain from Brexit.

And the biggest treat of all is watching wanks like you sweating over this shit.

I cannot possibly begin to describe how pleasurable your suffering is for me.

 

ta, ta for now.

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4 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

so I really have little or nothing to loose and lots to gain from Brexit.

Keep up the leg humping Randumb.

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

Politics and policy sometimes reacts to overextension or overreach by swing hard the other way.

Or they can be plain nutty.

Last week DUP support Hunt and Johnson EU No Deal October exit

THEN

Today DUP acknowledge No Deal will hurt NI and don't support it but presumably still support both contenders.

The place is an asylum.

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5 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

That poll clearly shows that a majority(57%)  wish to get the fuck out of the EU

Why do you hate democracy?

OR 72% don't accept leaving with No Deal OR with 16% Soft Brexit (stay in the EU Customs Union/Single Market) and with 43% Remain, that equals 59% who don't want to leave with either a May Deal or No Deal.

That more than two-thirds who don't want to exit with No Deal is appearing now in multiple polls for what that is worth in terms of accuracy. It also supports other polls that those more fearful of either a General Election and or Confirmatory Referendum are Hard Brexiters. It also appears to be reflected in a poll showing Brexit Party support is plummeting.

I can see why you don't like maths.

IMG_20190627_142523.thumb.jpg.e5b0bc6cc62ccde2aaa83295c7df5739.jpg

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

OR 72% don't accept leaving with No Deal OR with 16% Soft Brexit (stay in the EU Customs Union/Single Market) and with 43% Remain, that equals 59% who don't want to leave with either a May Deal or No Deal.

That more than two-thirds who don't want to exit with No Deal is appearing now in multiple polls for what that is worth in terms of accuracy. It also supports other polls that those more fearful of either a General Election and or Confirmatory Referendum are Hard Brexiters. It also appears to be reflected in a poll showing Brexit Party support is plummeting.

I can see why you don't like maths.

IMG_20190627_142523.thumb.jpg.e5b0bc6cc62ccde2aaa83295c7df5739.jpg

But Jack for ease of understanding by the innumerate, they even colour code the result, you know Blue for Leave, Red for Remain, couldn’t be simpler.

Jack were you little rich boy who left boarding school expecting to be the heir apparent at Daddies firm, only to piss off so many employees that Daddy worked out you were a liability rather than an asset and came up with the cunning plan of “ Jack go and live on my boat in Montenegro and become fully conversant with this Brexit thing and you can then advise our company on what we should be doing about it. You know sort of like May and her chief Brexit advisors Fox and Baker.

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26 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

But Jack for ease of understanding by the innumerate, they even colour code the result, you know Blue for Leave, Red for Remain, couldn’t be simpler.

Jack were you little rich boy who left boarding school expecting to be the heir apparent at Daddies firm, only to piss off so many employees that Daddy worked out you were a liability rather than an asset and came up with the cunning plan of “ Jack go and live on my boat in Montenegro and become fully conversant with this Brexit thing and you can then advise our company on what we should be doing about it. You know sort of like May and her chief Brexit advisors Fox and Baker.

Do you understand that just because someone supports May's deal or a soft brexit, it does not mean that they will support a "no deal" if that's the only option left on the table.

As we found out in Australia, we were given the option to 1) become a Republic with the president chosen in an election 2) Republic with the president chosen by parliament or 3) remain a constitutional monarchy

In spite of the mood in Aus to become a republic, many chose to remain as is rather than risking a republic with the wrong president selection method. It was a shit way that Little Johnny split the republic vote, but at least it was a democratic vote as people knew what they were voting for.

Brexit, nothing democratic about it now. 

 

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21 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I think that 4 billion budget might be under a lot of pressure. Someone may have forgotten to zip over to Nth Ireland and find out the removal of border watchtowers was traded for the decommissioning of IRA weapons all courtesy of the GFA, but took many years post GFA to occur.

It has been said that the British Army from these border watchtowers could read the speedometer dials of cars driving below, distinguish patterns on the wallpaper inside houses, see what was eaten for breakfast and hear what was said over the breakfast table.

So maybe this is in Boris's mind for there being no need for hard border check points and that being done remotely, combined of course with livestock face recognition technology.

Fuckwits.

lon89235-teaser-story-big.jpg

lon89225-teaser-xxl.jpg

 

9 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

I remember those days well Jack,

you ever been there back in the day?

I seem to be getting to you Jackie.

Keep posting your bullshit, it’s only helping the voters renew and reinforce their resolve.

Sea...sorry Randumb, I'm actually enjoying your troll "leg humping" as shown here by trying to address all posts you have directed at me. Not because it is easy to take advantage of someone who clearly has too many "mice running around upstairs" but because your views are clearly held by a lot of people in the Brexit Leave camp.

Anyway to both answer you question and maybe introduce a sailing yarn to soften the political nature of this thread. 

In the 1984 Clipper Cup in Hawaii I had the good fortune to spend some time with an Irish legend called Joe English RIP who was on a boat called Hitchhiker. Upon Joe's advice I ended up killing some time poking around Ireland waiting for Cowes and the Fasnet the following year in 1985 as well as being there for final crew selections for the 85/86 Whitbread.

So anyway taking Joe's advice I landed at Dublin airport in early June 34 years ago last month with absolutely no intention going over the border into the 6 counties or NI.

Remember back then the UK Govt were one of the  first to practise "fake news" (probably the US invented it first during the Vietnam War) a term it took 3 decades later for Trump to articulate in just two words. It was also probably the peak of the British Govt "shoot to kill policy" in NI that to this day they try to suppress.

For instance back then if a NI Sinn Fein politician like Gerry Adams even though being an elected member of Westminister (but carrying forward a century old Sinn Fein tradition that they don't show up to this day), his face could not be shown on UK TV. A BBC interview with him by UK Communications Law prevented them from showing his face, so they used actors. WTF.

So anyway I landed in the ROI with my GF and ran into a lovely couple insisting they take us across the border into NI on a road trip for a week. I thought it to be some insane suicide fucking mission but my American GF who looked better than was smart insisted. My thinking then was Siin Fein/IRA were a bunch of low breed fucking lefty fucking Catholics terrorists and they would kill poor old Protestant and political Liberal me and there was nothing Rev Ian Paisley could do to save me from these cunts.

That road trip changed my perception of NI overnight.

Every night we got on the piss in a local pub. Some were clearly Nationalist/Catholic, others Unionist/Protestant by leaning. I don't recall anyone ever owning up to being affiliated with a paramilitary of either pursausion, but their stories of sectarian violence on both sides was fuckin horrific and their political/unionist/republican views absolutely crystal clear. There was no middle ground.

Nearly every day the GF and I would wake up no matter where, the local paper would report an incident overnight somewhere in NI, and more often than not involving deaths, mostly of innocent people. She just wanted to go shopping, but she was good in the photogenic and horizontal dancing department so I put up with her.

The four of us in the car, two carrying ROI paperwork, the GF and I both aliens were pulled up once at one of a trillion border crossings and held for around two hours, searched and interrogated. They strip searched her by my guess to see if her tits were real. I put it down to the GF with a US passport but Irish surname made those Brit soldiers think she was a US Irish front carrying Cemtex into NI. After that when wobbly late at night we introduced her as "explosive tits" which made people laugh.

I left there thinking only two things. The British Government were a bunch of cunts, and the Republican/Catholics were being shafted.

Two months later on a big boat sitting on the rail heading towards Fasnet Rock and with 100% Anglo crew bar one, the subject of the Irish problem came up. I didn't say a word as they actually had no fucking idea. Fake News.

So wind forward to today, to answer your question Sea Warrior or should I say Randumb where you ask; "you ever been there back in the day?" 

You now have your answer and that aside probably colours my position on what is happening in NI regarding Brexit today and which colours my posts here and that I don't retreat from after my first hand experience 34 years ago and then since in business. You on the other hand nothing to offer.

All ironically probably as an opinion I would not hold today if I hadn't bumped into Irish Joe English at the Clipper Cup in Hawaii in 1984. Fantastic bloke taken too early.

 

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54 minutes ago, hoppy said:

In spite of the mood in Aus to become a republic, many chose to remain as is rather than risking a republic with the wrong president selection method. It was a shit way that Little Johnny split the republic vote, but at least it was a democratic vote as people knew what they were voting for.

Brexit, nothing democratic about it now. 

 

That’s one tenuous analogy if ever there was.

Now Brexit company “atta