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Brexit, WTF

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The Daily Mail thinks the entire public is utterly stupid. What a huge load of bullshit this is! A 19 yo "independant" journalist who worked for the Leave campaign and that can judge for the country what a senior diplomatic does is good or bad? Panic at the Mail as they try to distance themselves from legal liabilities? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7268519/STEVEN-EDGINTON-19-journalist-exposed-memos-UKs-man-Washington.html

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Daily Mail thinks the entire public is utterly stupid. What a huge load of bullshit this is! A 19 yo "independant" journalist who worked for the Leave campaign and that can judge for the country what a senior diplomatic does is good or bad? Panic at the Mail as they try to distance themselves from legal liabilities? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7268519/STEVEN-EDGINTON-19-journalist-exposed-memos-UKs-man-Washington.html

I wish that journos would think first and put their country first. It's not like anything Sir Kim wrote was news to anyone with half a brain. It's pretty obvious that Trump has ensured that the US Government is 'inept' and 'utterly dysfunctional'. 

 

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On 7/20/2019 at 8:03 AM, Waynemarlow said:

Now that leads on nicely to a dose of reality despite the waffling and hyperventilation on this forum , just where are we actually going to be heading. In my opinion there's only two end scenarios, as which ever way we get there, either slowly or painfully dependent on our MP's total lack of nous or the prorogation of parliament by either a GE or a vote of confidence looking like it may well bring the current parliament down, then therefore there's only a full market reset via Boris with only a No Deal on the table ( possibly aided by the Brexit Party at the next GE ) or a full on Socialist mad lurch into privatisation and tax rises.

Isn't a huge plank of Labour's platform reversing privatisation? Not doing more of it? It's one of the main differences between Corbyn and the Blairites

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I am not sure that the random word generator output is worth paying too much attention to, tbh.

Way back when I was a young physicist, I had a pdp 8 in my lab.  I was imagining a solid state photo multiplier device and this piece of heavy iron was the central processor for my emulator.  My programming skills were utter rubbish and so the device had an occasional habit of spewing paper tape at me.  My random number generator function was very poorly written, so it was all my fault.  But I eventually pushed the brown and orange box into the corner and forgot about all those random paper tapes.  I am reminded of the old thing in some of the noise in this thread.  

By the way, my labmate was working with high speed photography, taking pictures of exploding electrical wires.  I am reminded of that, too, in some of the noise in this thread.

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Daily Mail thinks the entire public is utterly stupid. What a huge load of bullshit this is! A 19 yo "independant" journalist who worked for the Leave campaign and that can judge for the country what a senior diplomatic does is good or bad? Panic at the Mail as they try to distance themselves from legal liabilities? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7268519/STEVEN-EDGINTON-19-journalist-exposed-memos-UKs-man-Washington.html

Indeed a load of bullshit!

Don't believe for a single moment that the teenager wrote all that on his own, absolute zero chance.

He actually says he was (still) working for the Brexit party, and I bet he had big help from Garage's and Arron Banks' spin doctors, as well as the Mail.

 

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Will Boris, who knows how to play the UK politics with his personality as an asset, be as effective as things are played differently there.
And for sure he has no friends there who owns him. EU players will read this piece about how BJ works. His personality will be tested.
-----------
From politico site;
There are Boris Johnson profiles popping up all over the place at the moment, but none of them quite like this 7,000-word magnum opus which went online this morning in the Atlantic, via POLITICO alum Tom McTague. He tries to get deep inside the head of this most unknowable of politicians, speaking to a litany of past friends, colleagues and acquaintances to assess Johnson’s love of Greek texts, the impact of childhood trauma and his notoriously unstable private life. Worth your time.

quote:
This is the Johnsonian view of the world: a romantic, egocentric belief in his personal power to do great things, to solve great puzzles, through the force of his personality. He can free Britain from the self-imposed shackles of its Brexit cowardice, building a bridge to France and an airport in the sea.

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

He actually says he was (still) working for the Brexit party, and I bet he had big help from Garage's and Arron Banks' spin doctors, as well as the Mail.

The Daily Mail journalist who got the byline has been shacked up with Tees, the Brexit Party's Chairman for about a year.

 

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2 hours ago, alctel said:

Isn't a huge plank of Labour's platform reversing privatisation? 

Correct ..he is very easily confused.

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20 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Correct ..he is very easily confused.

Yes correct with the wording, should have been nationalisation and not privatisation, such is my illiterate musings according to Jack that I really really do not know what I'm saying and are easily confused, but then I do get those little temper tantrums from you Jack where you spout such horribly puerile and juvenile offerings to your sycophants that I know, I've hit the Jack irritation spot, direct hit. When you do that, do you ring your old nanny for calming advice by any chance ?

Tssk such that people may have a different opinion from you Remainers, who would have thought.:rolleyes:

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BJ in his last column;
Johnson has argued technology could be used to implement a frictionless border. In his Telegraph column on Monday, he condemned the “technological pessimists” who said this was impossible in the available time, adding: “It is absurd that we have even allowed ourselves to be momentarily delayed by these technical issues.”

Even this one sentence is wrought with Kipperism;
Absurd, nice way to talk about the negotiators, on both sides.
Allowed, really, you had a choice not too ?
Momentarily delayed, really, more then 2 years ?
Technical issues, if you think it is only about that you only read half of the script they send you.

Just waiting for the; if we can use alternative arrangements for NI/Ire, we can use it for NI/Britain.
But I am afraid that will not happen, he needs the DUP.
 

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3 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Indeed a load of bullshit!

Don't believe for a single moment that the teenager wrote all that on his own, absolute zero chance.

He actually says he was (still) working for the Brexit party, and I bet he had big help from Garage's and Arron Banks' spin doctors, as well as the Mail.

Indeed a lot of BS, he sounds himself not impartial.
And only one source, not up to journo standards around here, you need two independent sources before allowed to publish.
But I reckon that is not the way it works in the UK.

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22 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Just waiting for the; if we can use alternative arrangements for NI/Ire, we can use it for NI/Britain.
But I am afraid that will not happen, he needs the DUP.
 

If as predicted Boris loses a VOC  in the next few weeks or Grieves and co jump ship to the Libs and the perceived Unity Party fails to materialise, we go straight into a GE which I think Boris wants as at that stage he comes back either with a big enough majority to ditch the DUP with a strengthened Brexit mandate or if he loses then he’s off the hook, it’s somebodies else’s problem.

 A GE and Boris wins whatever the result.

if indeed he does win big, then the Irish Sea will be the border. 

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36 minutes ago, OFRI said:

Why would BJ win in a GE? The tories come in 3rd or 4th in the polls..

Depends on whether the BP and Conservatives agree on not fighting each other in certain seats, I would suspect that the BP would be quite happy with 20 or so seats from old labour seats in the North and the Conservatives happy retaining their older voters in the South.

Youve also got to factor in that now the Libdems and Labour will be fighting for the same Renain voter, neither are going to win as many seats as hoped.

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14 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Youve also got to factor in that now the Libdems and Labour will be fighting for the same Renain voter, neither are going to win as many seats as hoped.

The same logic applies to Brexit Party vs Conservatives... If you believe that remain vs leave would be the only factor in an election. Which it won't, because some people vote on party lines regardless of policy, and some people will actually vote for individuals and not partys.

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Question for BJ and his acolytes:

If the technological solution for the Irish border is so simple, what then is the problem with the backstop?

Remember, the latter is only supposed to take effect at the end of the 2 year transition period anyway, so surely the that's more than enough time to implement the miracle of a frictionless border?

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8 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

If the technological solution for the Irish border is so simple, what then is the problem with the backstop?

I don't recall one commentator or journalist asking Boris this question?

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Even acknowledging that question would force them to commit to achieving the frictionless border within the defined timeframe.

In other words actually delivering on those 'promises' aka unicorns...

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Jo Swinson has become the first female Liberal Democrat leader, ..."ready for the fight of our lives"... the UK's future lay in the European Union and she would do "whatever it takes to stop Brexit".

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Brexit is already driving down the value downtown London leases

"efforts to sublet the property had faced rising competition in London’s commercial subletting market as a result of businesses reducing their footprint in the capital in the light of the Brexit vote."

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6 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Brexit is already driving down the value downtown London leases

"efforts to sublet the property had faced rising competition in London’s commercial subletting market as a result of businesses reducing their footprint in the capital in the light of the Brexit vote."

For every glint of pessimism from one side, there's always optimism from the other, will make exciting times ahead.

And the very next paragraph

" But the attraction of the Canary Wharf location was made clear by the company when it announced the lease agreement, describing it as a “desirable location for our member businesses who are rapidly scaling as well as the large enterprise companies who now represent 40% of our global membership”. "

"Nine years after co-founding WeWork, Neumann, 40, its chief executive, and 45-year-old McKelvey, as chief culture officer, are reportedly worth $7bn between them. The company leases large office spaces, divides them up and rents them out out in smaller portions to businesses offering perks such as free coffee and beer."

 

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Depends on whether the BP and Conservatives agree on not fighting each other in certain seats, I would suspect that the BP would be quite happy with 20 or so seats from old labour seats in the North and the Conservatives happy retaining their older voters in the South.

Youve also got to factor in that now the Libdems and Labour will be fighting for the same Renain voter, neither are going to win as many seats as hoped.

Don’t you forget that about halve of the CP voters are opposed to brexit? They won’t vote for the BJ and the ERG group. Maybe the Unity Party will play a significant role as well.

Even with a GE there will not be a clear mandate for either choice. To be honest, the logical thing to do is to find common ground and a solution in the middle. A soft Bexit with a close relation with Europe.

Whatever happens the french and germans will always be blamed for everything. So the conservatives can continue their habbits..

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

For every glint of pessimism from one side, there's always optimism from the other, will make exciting times ahead.

And the very next paragraph

" But the attraction of the Canary Wharf location was made clear by the company when it announced the lease agreement, describing it as a “desirable location for our member businesses who are rapidly scaling as well as the large enterprise companies who now represent 40% of our global membership”. "

"Nine years after co-founding WeWork, Neumann, 40, its chief executive, and 45-year-old McKelvey, as chief culture officer, are reportedly worth $7bn between them. The company leases large office spaces, divides them up and rents them out out in smaller portions to businesses offering perks such as free coffee and beer."

 

No one suggested that the Canary Wharf location was unattractive, just that the lease on the site was worth 62 million pounds less than it was a few years ago

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1 minute ago, OFRI said:

To be honest, the logical thing to do is to find common ground and a solution in the middle. A soft Bexit with a close relation with Europe.

Whatever happens the french and germans will always be blamed for everything. So the conservatives can continue their habbits..

 

 

Correct and given the choice 3 years ago, every Leave voter would have agreed expecting the powers to be to be a little more shall we say pragmatic. But due to the intransigence, incompetence and dick waving of both sides, we are in the position we are in, nothing more nothing less.

The Germans and French always will be the fall guys, equally the Germans and French think the same of the Brits, I wonder how Brexit came about.

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14 minutes ago, KC375 said:

No one suggested that the Canary Wharf location was unattractive, just that the lease on the site was worth 62 million pounds less than it was a few years ago

Just could it have been that the EMA came in waving a fist full of dollars and may have perhaps paid over the odds to be part of the London scene, it could have gone anywhere, but it chose the most expensive commercial part of London ? Just think if that 62m had been donated to Prostate Cancer research how many more people it would have benefited than the highly paid executives within the EMA.

Its long been thought that the Canary Wharf area has been full of grandiose companies paying huge salaries, paying over the odds to be there, this isn't news.

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3 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

....

Its long been thought that the Canary Wharf area has been full of grandiose companies paying huge salaries, paying over the odds to be there, this isn't news.

Yes, and now thanks to Brexit those "grandiose companies paying huge salaries, paying over the odds" are moving to the continent leaving space to lease at more reasonable rates, clearly good for those looking for space in London and good for those looking for huge salaries on the continent.

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3 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Yes, and now thanks to Brexit those "grandiose companies paying huge salaries, paying over the odds" are moving to the continent leaving space to lease at more reasonable rates, clearly good for those looking for space in London and good for those looking for huge salaries on the continent.

So you are saying that a few large typically foreign owned companies, housed in a foreign owned building

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/11373564/Qataris-win-battle-for-Canary-Wharf.html

paying little or no UK tax, using all the facilities and securities of the UK financial sector as there comfort blanket, are better to the UK economy than genuine UK companies looking for space at more reasonable rates ?

 

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28 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So you are saying that a few large typically foreign owned companies, housed in a foreign owned building

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/11373564/Qataris-win-battle-for-Canary-Wharf.html

paying little or no UK tax, using all the facilities and securities of the UK financial sector as there comfort blanket, are better to the UK economy than genuine UK companies looking for space at more reasonable rates ?

 

No you are trying to put words in my mouth.

I quoted an article that indicated in at least some circumstances lease values in prime London locations are going down because of a reduction in demand caused by brexit.

You observed some folks thought cannary wark a lovely location. I agreed but pointed out that it was still the case that values had fallen with demand falling.

You observed that folks currently or previously occupying that type of space were companies that "paid huge salaries and paying over the odds" to be in those prime location.

I observed that those companies and those jobs that "paid huge salaries" were leaving london for the continent.

I made no value judgement one way or the other. It seems you have. Your comment indicates that it is better for that space to now go to "genuine UK companies looking for space at more reasonable rates". 

I do think that is the type of opportunity Brexit will deliver. Post Brexit UK companies looking for new lease terms will probably be able to negotiate better arrangements than they currently have. (I have family members in London right who want more space - lease or purchase, one for residential and one for commercial purposes. They are both looking forward to getting more for their money post Brexit...and for now neither is wordied about having less money to pay with, but that may change too)

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56 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

 

The Germans and French always will be the fall guys, equally the Germans and French think the same of the Brits, I wonder how Brexit came about.

We might call you jokingly the "Perfide Albion" but that's nowhere near the level of abuse we experience from your rightwing press.

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18 minutes ago, KC375 said:

No you are trying to put words in my mouth.

I quoted an article that indicated in at least some circumstances lease values in prime London locations are going down because of a reduction in demand caused by brexit.

You observed some folks thought cannary wark a lovely location. I agreed but pointed out that it was still the case that values had fallen with demand falling.

You observed that folks currently or previously occupying that type of space were companies that "paid huge salaries and paying over the odds" to be in those prime location.

I observed that those companies and those jobs that "paid huge salaries" were leaving london for the continent.

I made no value judgement one way or the other. It seems you have. Your comment indicates that it is better for that space to now go to "genuine UK companies looking for space at more reasonable rates". 

I do think that is the type of opportunity Brexit will deliver. Post Brexit UK companies looking for new lease terms will probably be able to negotiate better arrangements than they currently have. (I have family members in London right who want more space - lease or purchase, one for residential and one for commercial purposes. They are both looking forward to getting more for their money post Brexit...and for now neither is wordied about having less money to pay with, but that may change too)

To be fair, you used the Guardian ( a noted left of centre anti Brexit paper )  quotation as a means to reinforce your views that Brexit will be bad for the UK. I countered with the fact it may not be bad for all in this situation of the Canary Wharf. 

You failed to acknowledge that your own family may benefit from the movement of some and not all companies ( just look at how few bankers have moved so far despite all the initial predictions ) and how most will move not entirely, but small offshoots of their London based company.

Once again you are telling just one half of a story. 

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12 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

We might call you jokingly the "Perfide Albion" but that's nowhere near the level of abuse we experience from your rightwing press.

I had not head of that before and looked it up on Wiki

The term was used in reference to a possible United Kingdom withdrawal from the European Union in the run up to the referendum on the issue in 2016. An article in the French newspaper Le Parisien claimed that a poll showing that only 54% of French people supported UK membership of the EU (compared to 55% of British people) showed that "the British will always be seen as the Perfidious Albion".[17] In contrast, the editor of the Financial Times, Lionel Barber, has written that "Too many people in the UK are under the illusion that most European countries cannot wait to see the back of perfidious Albion."[18] Eventually, the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU.[19]

What is interesting is that only 54% of French support UK membership in the same Le Parisen poll where as the UK were purported to be 55%.

As to the Right wing press, not so sure that all the press is Right Wing, there's a pretty fair spread across the board. One can read from a spread of papers and you will get a better mid line feel that not all Rosbifs are against the French.

 

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14 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

I had not head of that before and looked it up on Wiki

The term was used in reference to a possible United Kingdom withdrawal from the European Union in the run up to the referendum on the issue in 2016. An article in the French newspaper Le Parisien claimed that a poll showing that only 54% of French people supported UK membership of the EU (compared to 55% of British people) showed that "the British will always be seen as the Perfidious Albion".[17] In contrast, the editor of the Financial Times, Lionel Barber, has written that "Too many people in the UK are under the illusion that most European countries cannot wait to see the back of perfidious Albion."[18] Eventually, the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU.[19]

What is interesting is that only 54% of French support UK membership in the same Le Parisen poll where as the UK were purported to be 55%.

As to the Right wing press, not so sure that all the press is Right Wing, there's a pretty fair spread across the board. One can read from a spread of papers and you will get a better mid line feel that not all Rosbifs are against the French.

 

I've lived in France and in the UK and I can tell you that the French press is not as vitriolic as the British press when talking of its neighbour.

As for the people, in my experience they are nowhere as bad as the tabloids, I mostly lived in Bristol so probably a "liberal bubble" but I never ever suffered the slightest xenophobic incident.

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9 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

I've lived in France and in the UK and I can tell you that the French press is not as vitriolic as the British press when talking of its neighbour.

As for the people, in my experience they are nowhere as bad as the tabloids, I mostly lived in Bristol so probably a "liberal bubble" but I never ever suffered the slightest xenophobic incident.

Where ever you live in the world, there's always a very small minority that could be termed as fearful of strangers in their country. Probably the worst I have felt was in Paris in the 80's where unless you spoke fluent French, you were treated pretty poorly and yet in the same era I used to go gliding in the Alps and the small local town near the airfield we launched from was some of the most friendly and enchanting people I have met, despite my very very poor schoolboy attempts in French to give a bit of clearance against the cliff face by the towplane always being misinterpreted as to go even closer :).

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