Sign in to follow this  
DrewR

Identify this throttle control

Recommended Posts

Can anyone ID this throttle control lever and more importantly tell how to disassemble?  The neutral button has gotten increasingly difficult to pull out to engage neutral. 

I can get to the back side of it and I have been using various lubricants, but it is getting much worse and either needs replacement or overhaul (my preference), I think it's a Morse, bu they have nothing similar I can find.

Is there a replacement part or a new one that replaces this that I can use? Does anyone have an exploded diagram or a parts diagram of this one?

It's from a 3GM30F on a J/35.

IMG_20181010_164114997_HDR.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Morse..Same as my J33..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should say I believe it's a Morse.Parts and replacements on Internet.Have had the same issue but lubricants have worked.Soaked the entire unit on the inside while someone would pull the handle in and out at the same time.No problem for the last two seasons..Good luck..

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure it's a Morse, but how does it come apart?  I have soaked it in various oils and teflon lubricants from the inside, but i think it's past that.

I now use a screwdriver the put it in neutral and oil it frequently. I can free it up and it lasts for the day (sometimes) but it is getting to the point of making  me crazy.

Anyone know a direct replacement?  Or how to take the damn thing apart?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iirc There’s a set screw where the handle comes out that allows you to remove the cover, and you can then take the unit off. The nuetral  button screws into a brass tube that slides, if you can lube that up everything will be fine again, for a while.  If it breaks ......

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  ^^^  IF you can get the outer cover off, the guts are repairable. Corrosion of the bronze tube is the problem. Some times can be dealt with by flooding the pin with oil & working the button in/out to wear down/flush out the crud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK thx for the info. I'll pull the handle and see what's inside and soak it with PBlaster or whatever.  

I'd replace the whole thing if I knew a replacement part that would mate with the guts inside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your photograph doesn't really give much idea of what's going on. Was that thing that's broken off a second control lever,  a fuel shutoff or a shift-defeat?

For the most part, that kind of control comes from UFlex, Seastar or Teleflex Morse. Some distributors have a pretty broad line of controls that shove Teleflex cables back and forth. Then there's the Spinlock control that is only the cockpit side and are bolted to a Teleflex Morse control inside the boat.

Regardless of manufacture, they are all over priced cheap castings with dissimilar metal mechanisms that last an astonishing long time given their lousy quality. I'd toss what's there and replace it before you discover it's frozen when you're at half throttle and a boat length away from your slip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The broken part it the neutral knob. The lever with the red knob is the throttle control for forward and reverse.  The broken black knob pulls straight out to only engage neutral and only works when throttle lever is straight up and down (also neutral). It allows you to rev the engine in neutral. Since its a 3GM30F with no glow plugs, you HAVE to open the throttle to near wide open to start the engine in colder temps.

Behind it is an elaborate control mechanism that performs all the functions above.  Not such an easy change over I don't think.

I can usually free up the neutral mechanism but I broke the Bakelite know prying it with a screwdriver. A new knob I can make out of solid stainless. And I;m sure if I can get it apart I can make it good as new, I have access to a machine shop and machinist. 

I just cant disassemble it for renewal.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so it's some ancient version of this.  Were I you, I'd serious consider replacing the entire assembly, saving only the cables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 to replacing it. It WILL go bad when you don’t want it to. Ask me how I know...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anybody can find one of these exact units (and yes, it is a Teleflex Morse), let me know.  Mine is working fine, but won't forever, and it would be good to have a spare.  It is the only one with a small footprint suitable for a sailboat cockpit without a recess.   Crew still step on it from time to time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's late 80s vintage Morse/Teleflex.  Had same unit for 21 yrs.  Played with oil and trying to disassemble.    

Detailed removal instructions follow and you won't like them:

You remove the control head with a sawzall and/or angle grinder attacking from the backside.  Yup.  It's a fantasy that you can dismantle a 30 year old multimetal corrosion block.  Plan to do some f/g cosmetic repair afterward.   Right pain in the arse.

We replaced ours with Spinlock cockpit part because we liked the removable handle that was not available from Teleflex.  Though (really) pricey, the spin lock faceplate is inherently corrosion resistant.  

The steel bits behind the cover are replacement teleflex which connect to the engine control cables.  Your cables are also antique and probably should have been renewed a decade ago.  

I think we bought an entire control head (with non-removable cockpit handle) and immediately pitched the handle and plate to install the spin lock.  The spin lock has been flawless for for 10 years so far.  

Reliable engine control is one of those nice to have items and the old bits you have  are long long past their sell-by dates.

P. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pinching said:

It's late 80s vintage Morse/Teleflex.  Had same unit for 21 yrs.  Played with oil and trying to disassemble.    

Detailed removal instructions follow and you won't like them:

You remove the control head with a sawzall and/or angle grinder attacking from the backside.  Yup.  It's a fantasy that you can dismantle a 30 year old multimetal corrosion block.  Plan to do some f/g cosmetic repair afterward.   Right pain in the arse.

We replaced ours with Spinlock cockpit part because we liked the removable handle that was not available from Teleflex.  Though (really) pricey, the spin lock faceplate is inherently corrosion resistant.  

The steel bits behind the cover are replacement teleflex which connect to the engine control cables.  Your cables are also antique and probably should have been renewed a decade ago.  

I think we bought an entire control head (with non-removable cockpit handle) and immediately pitched the handle and plate to install the spin lock.  The spin lock has been flawless for for 10 years so far.  

Reliable engine control is one of those nice to have items and the old bits you have  are long long past their sell-by dates.

P. 

 

Ouch, try the set screw to get the cover off first, just sayin..

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was afraid of that, it being a 1987 boat. i pulled the throttle lever out and it looks like a weird Phillips head screw, not a set screw as I thought.

But its 19 degrees F out and I'm not messing with it today. 

If I need to replace the whole thing, I suspect there would be a few options that would mate with the existing control cables?  Or am I dreaming and it is it an entire refit from tranny to cockpit including cables?  Again its a Yanmar 3GM30F with the usual Kanzai (or whatever it is) transmission. 

HFC, what did you end up replacing? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, dash34 said:

If anybody can find one of these exact units (and yes, it is a Teleflex Morse), let me know.  Mine is working fine, but won't forever, and it would be good to have a spare.  It is the only one with a small footprint suitable for a sailboat cockpit without a recess.   Crew still step on it from time to time.

Hey, I asked first!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DrewR, didn’t have your unit, but had a temperamental shifter with corrosion issues. It culminated one day whilst gently leaving a raft up when it jammed in idle reverse, with the stern of our 6tonne shoal keel yacht pointing at the rocky beach 5-ish boat lengths away. Jiggling the shifter to try to move it had it only move further one way - to fast reverse. Oh shit, the lady’s not for turning! And 40 excited horses are building momentum. Smart sister stepped in and had sense to kill engine. Not sure if luck or a pressure change on the control wires, but control lever freed up. Restarted engine and back into forward with inches to spare from charging up the shore.

Anyway... replacement discussions began immediately and whole unit was ripped out v. v. soon afterwards and replaced with a single lever side mount unit (Volvo unit, similar to photo with the button to allow neutral revs at start etc). New cables run for confidence - just followed the instructions on the back of the packet with no drama and some time leaning into engine bay and mounting the shifter etc. Connected to a Perkins and Volvo saildrive, but since repowered. You might actually find a cleaner/safer/smoother routing for your cables as well. Has shifted like a dream for years now.

While you’re at it, replace your kill-stop cable. War stories there as well... ;)

 

 

FD90915C-6809-4139-90A0-F54F9C998939.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(In case not clear from photo, we replaced full unit, including workings mounted behind)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other thing. if you primarily race and don't much care about fussy good looks, and if your old control head is inaccessible, first consider a new control location altogether.  It may be easier to abandon the old unit in place and start afresh (replace the control and stop cables as noted above)

I doubt if the (disconnected) old control head will affect resale of a J35.  

Also, the throttle head removal process may involve fussing with the wiring from engine to instrument panel.  A 37 yo instrument panel is probably best left alone.

Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say control cables are universal - there are several subtly different sizes. However, they are all readily available. Be sure you know your cable diameters before buying new controls unless you want to get sucked into the vortex of new controls, then new cables, then new engine-end hardware as well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Get a compression check done on your engine at some point. 

Already done a few years ago. And injectors.  Came out perfect. 3GMs are notoriously cold blooded beasts. 50F water temp means WFO to start. Another boat I showed how to start was amazed, he had been cranking and cranking it for years.  WFO and it sparked right up.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pinching said:

One other thing. if you primarily race and don't much care about fussy good looks, and if your old control head is inaccessible, first consider a new control location altogether.  It may be easier to abandon the old unit in place and start afresh (replace the control and stop cables as noted above)

I doubt if the (disconnected) old control head will affect resale of a J35.  

Also, the throttle head removal process may involve fussing with the wiring from engine to instrument panel.  A 37 yo instrument panel is probably best left alone.

Good luck.

I can get at the back of the controls with a slight amount of contortion so replacing the whole shebang is probably going to happen.

J/35 resale value?  Hah! Is there any? 

Moon, thx for your input, I AM worried about a simple $200 throttle control changeover ending up $1000+ and 40 hrs... That's why I was hoping to find another identical part.  No such luck, like the 3GM control panel, you'd think they would be out there but damn if I can find one.  I've called all the boatyards and re-power joints locally and nothing. eBay too. Where old Yanmar parts go to die is a mystery to me. 

I think a call to Morse tomorrow is a good start.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:20 AM, DrewR said:

Moon, thx for your input, I AM worried about a simple $200 throttle control changeover ending up $1000+ and 40 hrs... That's why I was hoping to find another identical part.  No such luck, like the 3GM control panel, you'd think they would be out there but damn if I can find one.  I've called all the boatyards and re-power joints locally and nothing. eBay too. Where old Yanmar parts go to die is a mystery to me. 

 

Drew, please update us when you find out.  Inquiring Minds in Fleet 7 wanna know!  Seriously.  My J/35 throttle started acting up this year (the gear engage/neutral button) and I'm getting some transmission clunk based on that (I think)  and from what I've seen of the back side of the control panel, and some engine starting gremlins, a rewire and maybe panel replacement is in order.  I'm starting with the nav electronics first because, hey, sailboat racing.  Engine panel may wait for next year, though the starter may get some 16 ga wire because the starter button, which takes pride in showing up to work only some of the time, clearly needs it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will do. I've given up on a new (used) panel, they seem impossible to find except from a dealer and must be made from solid gold.  Mine is mess And I'd love to replace it.  There are ones on eBay that say they are drop in fits, but they are handmade and I'm not going to find out they dont quite fit or work.

I will be working on the boat slowly, its frikkin cold up here this year. But I will let you know what I find.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent hours searching every nook and cranny on the net trying to find one of these because I refused to believe that such a compact and reliable unit wouldn't be out there somewhere.  Nada.  I think they have gone the way of the dodo.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lex:

Re: 3GM30intermittent starting drama -- Yanmar tech at boat show told me to install a relay on the starter circuit close to the engine.  The voltage drop through the wiring harness was just enough to make starting unreliable.  Solved the problem for about $10 ... until I killed the tranny and replaced the engine. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ I'm in the process of doing this as well. What relay did you use, do you remember?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To pick a relay, you just need to know the size of the fuse in the wire going to the starter solenoid. It's usually 20 or 30A. Then you just need a relay with contacts rated for that current.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, DrewR said:

Will do. I've given up on a new (used) panel, they seem impossible to find except from a dealer and must be made from solid gold.  Mine is mess And I'd love to replace it.  There are ones on eBay that say they are drop in fits, but they are handmade and I'm not going to find out they dont quite fit or work.

I will be working on the boat slowly, its frikkin cold up here this year. But I will let you know what I find.

Thanks Drew.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:20 AM, DrewR said:

Moon, thx for your input, I AM worried about a simple $200 throttle control changeover ending up $1000+ and 40 hrs... That's why I was hoping to find another identical part.  No such luck, like the 3GM control panel, you'd think they would be out there but damn if I can find one.  I've called all the boatyards and re-power joints locally and nothing. eBay too. Where old Yanmar parts go to die is a mystery to me. 

Unfortunately, a common problem with marine gear that is actually pretty reliable.  Stuff that had a 20 year production run and then  lasts 30+ years in service before it finally fails. Can't really expect suppliers of a small market to keep a 50 year old design going.   My 29 year old boat would carry historic tags if it was a car.  As it is, It's just an early version of a boat that was in production with minor updates for 25 years.  It's a pain that the old magnetic breakers cost $60 each if I can find them since they went out of common usage 15 years ago and eventually I'll have to build a new distributions panel.  Same with hinges, hasps and the like.  It becomes a bit of an archeological expedition to find replacements when old stuff breaks or wears out.  

At least as long as Edson remains in business, I can get engine controls and steering parts.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2018 at 7:54 PM, DrewR said:

The broken part it the neutral knob. The lever with the red knob is the throttle control for forward and reverse.  The broken black knob pulls straight out to only engage neutral and only works when throttle lever is straight up and down (also neutral). It allows you to rev the engine in neutral. Since its a 3GM30F with no glow plugs, you HAVE to open the throttle to near wide open to start the engine in colder temps.

Behind it is an elaborate control mechanism that performs all the functions above.  Not such an easy change over I don't think.

I can usually free up the neutral mechanism but I broke the Bakelite know prying it with a screwdriver. A new knob I can make out of solid stainless. And I;m sure if I can get it apart I can make it good as new, I have access to a machine shop and machinist. 

I just cant disassemble it for renewal.   

I had to break all the plastic off and attack it with a torch for a few seconds to get the knob off.. found replacement at local hardware store.

The shutoff cable is a right pain in the ass to get out. I'm tempted to run an alternative cable of some sort on the 35. as a temp fix I ran a piece of kite string from the decomp lever on the block around a block to where I can give it a tug to shut the engine off but this can't last long LOL

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I called Teleflex (now SeaStar Solutions).  This is the replacement part for my ancient throttle/shift mechanism. According to their support, it **should** mate right up to my existing 3GM30 cables. No diagrams or parts my unit, out of production for 20+ years, go figure.

http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/controls-and-cables/mechanical-dual-action/ch22002300-ski-and-jet-boat-control-2/

And its a 'Jet Boat' control, so I expect at least 20 more kts of speed. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this