Rain Man

In-mast Furling

Recommended Posts

Just wondering from the experienced cruisers what the general opinion of in-mast furling systems is.  I'm retiring from the racing circuit and looking at cruising boats.  I have been rejecting boats with in-mast furlers, but there are a lot of otherwise decent boats out there that have them.  I'm wondering whether my rejection is really warranted.

More specifically - do the boats sail like shit without battens in the main?  I know some of them have vertical battens, but I can't imagine they do much to help. Do the sails last a few years instead of decades because of the lack of battens?  Are the furlers as much of a pain in the ass as they look?  Thinking about the French 60' boat I saw last summer with its clew ripped off and the main firmly jammed in the mast...

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dash:

I have done maybe 4 dozen in mast furling boats. Probably more.. Passport did a lot of in mast furling boats. I tried to switch them to in boom furling.. They did some in boom furling boats but they came back to in mast. I don;t care for in mast but I know with the right sail maker it can be done right. I like in boom furling. Like many things in the world of yachting, when you get all the pieces aligned, i works just fine. As I recall Cruisin' Loser has in mast and for him it works very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We did more than 35k nm offshore on a Bristol 45.5 with Hood in-mast and loved it. When we bought the boat we considered converting which would not have been too difficult but thought we would try it out. Certainly you will not get the performance of a full-batten main but we did not find this a problem cruising in the trades and windier sports. We really liked the infinite reefing options and sometimes would have a full #2 and the equivalent of four reefs when broad-reaching in 35+ knots. If you have vane steering (or perhaps even electric) you can balance the rig very easily which makes the vane work better. If you get a jam it is because the operator screwed up. We had no problems but watched and learned about how to operate the thing. If you will get a jam it will be getting the sail out, not back in. One consideration I only have experience with the Hood system which we found to be very sturdy and reliable. I have no idea whether other brands are as good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Dash:

I have done maybe 4 dozen in mast furling boats. Probably more.. Passport did a lot of in mast furling boats. I tried to switch them to in boom furling.. They did some in boom furling boats but they came back to in mast. I don;t care for in mast but I know with the right sail maker it can be done right. I like in boom furling. Like many things in the world of yachting, when you get all the pieces aligned, i works just fine. As I recall Cruisin' Loser has in mast and for him it works very well.

CL has Leisurefurl, I think. kdh has a custom boom furling job that is very nice. In-mast seems to be too much compromise to me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've spent a fair bit of time on a 38' Hunter with IMF. It's very convenient ....until it isn't and then it can be a gigantic clusterfuck.

A jam high up took 3 people an hour to clear - at the dock. Couldn't furl it, couldn't unfurl it, obviously couldn't drop it. If it had happened in bad weather it would have been very serious.

I wouldn't have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Yeah, we're organizing a partnership with a glider pilot friend of mine - smart guy and very capable but not an experienced sailor with a partner who is an experienced sailor.  The potential clusterfuck factor has me worried - there is some inexperience there, and if experienced people can create a clusterfuck, inexperienced people will do it often.

I love this place - ask a question and you get an answer from Bob Perry and a bunch of other folks with real experience.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have in-mast, it's the basic option on most Hallberg-Rassys. They seem to largely know what it's about when it comes to making cruising boats.

We like it. We've used vertical battens for the last two mains to good effect.

99% of the screwups are operator error, maybe more. Even when our halyward swivel locked up and I had to take the damned mast down in Panama it was my fault for not servicing the thing often enough.

Old sails, when they get soft, jam up more. So maybe you won't let your sails go to the hippo-ass shaped stretched out nightmares most cruisers are willing to tolerate for a while.

Mostly, you have to learn how your particular cantakerous beast operates, and pay attention to make sure you follow the furl process that works for you. Keep the boom horizontal, come up close to the wind, maintain tension on the clew, etc. Do that and it wil work pretty well. Furl it when you're running off the wind without centering the boom or tightening the vange or blowing off the backstay, well what happens - and it will be ugly - that's all on you.

What we really like the most are the following things:

1) We can set, reef and douse the two sails without leaving the cockpit. If we don't use the staysail on a passage, mostly we go on deck to get rid of the dead flying fish and squid and that's about it.

2) It encourages you to sail more. When it takes two minutes to set or douse the sails, just "trying it out to see how fast we go in these weird conditions" is a lot easier. You will sail more if no one has to bump halyards or flake shit down afterwards every time the wind goes to crap. You can put the sails out, look at them for five or ten and decide "this sucks, lets motor" and nobody breaks a sweat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

We did more than 35k nm offshore on a Bristol 45.5 with Hood in-mast and loved it. When we bought the boat we considered converting which would not have been too difficult but thought we would try it out. Certainly you will not get the performance of a full-batten main but we did not find this a problem cruising in the trades and windier sports. We really liked the infinite reefing options and sometimes would have a full #2 and the equivalent of four reefs when broad-reaching in 35+ knots. If you have vane steering (or perhaps even electric) you can balance the rig very easily which makes the vane work better. If you get a jam it is because the operator screwed up. We had no problems but watched and learned about how to operate the thing. If you will get a jam it will be getting the sail out, not back in. One consideration I only have experience with the Hood system which we found to be very sturdy and reliable. I have no idea whether other brands are as good.

 

I sure hope you stripped and serviced the system after all that use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jammer Six said:

Yup, it was all on me.

That didn't get it down, either.

No, I've found that admission of responsibility never actually un-fucks anything you fucked up.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jammer Six said:

If I were buying a boat, (and I go back and forth, I like other people's boats, too) it would have standard rigging. 

Slides. Lazy jacks. A couple reef points. Jiffy reefing. I don't like to fuck around when we're reefing, regardless of how much "experience" the crew thinks they have. I like a couple reef points, "let's reef", "oh, shit" and "take it down, we're going home."

And when we're striking sail at the end of a long August day, I love lazy jacks.

I had lazy jacks. I prefer in mast furling by about a factor of 100.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, B.J. Porter said:

I had lazy jacks. I prefer in mast furling by about a factor of 100.

Of course I had lazy jacks on the last boat. The main on that one didn't weigh more than my wife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, a full batten mainsail with lazy jacks, lazybag and single line reefing is such a foolproof solution that you need a very good reason to depart from it. On a heavy displacement if you aren't fit enough to winch up the main, you can always add an electric winch.

The clusterfuck tend to happen at 3am when you do something in a hurry. Yes in theory one should be able to stick to the operating procedure whatever the time but in practice having kit that is easy to operate and fails gracefully when badly operated is more important IMHO.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Charter one from Windworks. Maybe you’ll get a discount

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People tend to like what they have.

As Ish said I have a boom furling setup that I wouldn't trade for anything. Idiotproof and insanely convenient. Just roll up the sail like a furling jib. No sail cover to fuck around with. All kinds of shape control. Just two lines for the whole arrangement--furling line and halyard. Hydraulic vang.

I've only used mast furling on charter boats but CL had one on his Hinckley and owners set their boats up that way there for years. CL mentioned he never had a jam. He has a Leisurefurl boom furler on his new boat.

Dealing with all the "standard rigging"--reefing lines, lazy jacks, stackpack seems so overly complex to me. Seems so crude to pile the main on top of the boom. Look at all the boats out there in a breeze with the jib unrolled and the main still covered and piled up. Easy to understand the reluctance to deal with all that.

R3o46GP.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my experience with them has been this: maintained properly and used properly they're fine. the problem so far as I can tell is that in an effort to keep costs down a lot of the production boats that come with in mast these days have systems that are under spec'd. the other problem is that people get it into their heads that because they have in mast furling they can wait longer than if they had slab reefing to tuck a reef. not true, especially if you have one of the aforementioned under spec'd systems. 9 out of 10 I know of have happened when people are trying to furl the main when it's violently flogging. it's also worth noting that theres a lot of difference in the quality of furling systems same as headsail furlers. my experience is that same as their headsail furlers reckmann units are damn near a bullet proof. done over 10,000 miles on a 92ft boat, including a transatlantic and a couple trips to and from the Caribbean from new england and the reckmann hydraulic in mast system worked perfectly. but conversely I delivered a 35ft catalina from maine to new york last year with in mast that was nothing but problems. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cruise on a Hinckley Souwester 59 and the in-mast furling main is the best

you can pull the sails out without even having to leave the cockpit, it awesome

IMG_1046.JPG.ceed005420ceaece785b46414124de94.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Luketougas1 said:

I cruise on a Hinckley Souwester 59 and the in-mast furling main is the best

you can pull the sails out without even having to leave the cockpit, it awesome

IMG_1046.JPG.ceed005420ceaece785b46414124de94.JPG

unrelated to the current topic but is this the boat that was for sale in florida a while back that was Henry Hinckleys personal boat? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

unrelated to the current topic but is this the boat that was for sale in florida a while back that was Henry Hinckleys personal boat? 

nah

this has only had two owners and I'm pretty sure Henry Hinckley has been dead for years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Henry ever have a 59? He designed the 49 for himself and had one. Along with the modern boats one of the least attractive to my eye.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, kdh said:

Did Henry ever have a 59? He designed the 49 for himself and had one. Along with the modern boats one of the least attractive to my eye.

 

oops, you're right it was a 49 not a 59 that was his that was for sale. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The later Hinckleys, including mine, have boom furling. Mostly Leisurefurls but one of the later Daysailers has a GMT Powerfurl. Here's a pic they sent me.

M8dNvGk.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That boom needs stripes or graphics to hide its thickness.

Maybe a "black band" the length of it?

Gorgeous boat otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, kdh said:

The later Hinckleys, including mine, have boom furling. Mostly Leisurefurls but one of the later Daysailers has a GMT Powerfurl. Here's a pic they sent me.

M8dNvGk.jpg

What kind of Hinckley do you have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

That boom needs stripes or graphics to hide its thickness.

Maybe a "black band" the length of it?

Gorgeous boat otherwise.

Yeah but put it next to the same boat with a conventional boom and sail and the furling boom will look smaller. 

That said, I’d take a conventional boom over inmast or boom furling. 

One thing to consider with inmast furling is there rarely is a spare main halyard. Topping lifts tend to be static lines off the mast. So trying to fix something aloft becomes challenging 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have sailed on CL's Hinckley (he has traded up this past year) and the in mast was flawless.  More experience with in mast than boom as they are more prevalent at least in my area. What I like most?  When the shit hits the fan reefing is a no brainer even if you find yourself single handed, which I have. At when it has passed you can go back to full main.  CL had an electric winch and most big boats I have sailed on did as well.  I am also now a big fan of electrics for cabin top and primarys, it's there if you need it and when you need it, it's worth it's weight in gold.  I think I would prefer in boom based on what I have seen and read, like the idea of reducing sail and weight aloft like normal reefing, just not enough experience to comment on. 

Nothing on a sailboat is fool proof, especially if fools are on board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to be that this discussion is similar to the new gen/traditional anchor discussion and that is we often don't know about the experience of the poster wrt to the two alternatives under discussion. I feel competent to comment on both inmast and conventional rigs because I have many years experience with both. I can't comment intelligently about inboom because I have never used one. I get a sense reading the comments here that people who have cruised extensively with inmast really like them. I wonder how much personal experience critics of inmast actually have with them? People take a lot about difficulties furling up the sail. In my experience furling is a piece of cake. We don't even head into the wind to do so, just ease the sheet so there is not too much tension on the outhaul (if you have too much the overload on the motor tells you). If there is a problem it is on the way out when have about 1/4 of the sail unfurled and you too little tension on the outhaul so the unfurled sail wants to stay inside the mast.

With a Hood system if you get a major mess you can lower the sail, and the mess by disconnecting the foil at the bottom and easing the halyard. Never had to do it but I figured out how to do it. Have no idea if other makes are the same. Hood makes (made?) a great system. We did a rtw with a unit thathad its 30th birthday on the trip. To answer someone's question, at the end of circ we had the gear unit rebuilt. Only cost a few hundred dollars.

 

BTW, the new gen anchors are much better - and yes I have lots of experience with both. <troll>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like D’Ranger, I did significant time with CL on his last boat. In the 2015 Marion-Bermuda, we had prett shitty weather for a good part of the race and the ability to “dial-a-main” was a significant advantage short handed in the snot. With a well built sail, shape was fine for a heavy cruising boat. It would have been painful for a fractional boat as you have few shaping options. 

As BJ says, operator attention is important and  older and blown out sails could be troublesome.  You'll have less power than a traditional main with roach and battens. Not a problem upwind in 25-35 in the Gulf Stream. 

I’ve also sailed CL’s new boat with in boom LF. Better shaping and powerful. Also requires attention to technique but has the advantage mentioned above of being able to strike the sail if thing do go sideways. 

As always, comes down carelessness and lack of attention can screw up anything. I’d prefer a traditional main, then boom fueling and then in mast but wouldn’t reject the in mast outright. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had the good fortune to own a racing boat that can go upwind very well.  I know that there aren't many cruising boats that will be able to come close to what the Dash could do because of SA/D, wetted surface, foils, sheeting angle, sail shape etc.  but will the lack of battens be a double whammy on upwind performance?  When I go cruising in the local area we are typically beating upwind or sailing downwind in 8-15 kts of breeze, either out in the strait or in some of the narrow channels between islands.  Being able to balance the boat off the leech of the main with just enough weather helm makes sailing upwind a lot more pleasant - you can point well, and steer up in the puffs.  Will that ability disappear with the batten-less sail or can you still get a reasonably good leech shape?  I know, life's a reach, but that isn't the way it works around here in the Salish Sea.

I don't want a boat that sails so poorly in the local conditions that we end up motoring a lot.  Might as well get a powerboat then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

Why don't you let me charter your boat? I do a lot of chartering.

If not, why ever not?

Because it's my house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mgs said:

Yeah but put it next to the same boat with a conventional boom and sail and the furling boom will look smaller. 

That said, I’d take a conventional boom over inmast or boom furling. 

One thing to consider with inmast furling is there rarely is a spare main halyard. Topping lifts tend to be static lines off the mast. So trying to fix something aloft becomes challenging 

We go aloft with our spinnaker halyard, which is run long enough to reach a powered Lewmar 66 winch.

Our topping lift is an old main halyard, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

the other problem is that people get it into their heads that because they have in mast furling they can wait longer than if they had slab reefing to tuck a reef.

We've found the opposite to be true.

There is NO REASON to not reef the second someone says "should we maybe think about reefing". It's basically zero work to reef, zero work to shake it out. So we'll reef at the drop of a hat if it looks dodgy, because there are no consequences to NOT reefing as no one has to leave the cockpit and screw around tying things down.

And you can change your reefing amount just as easily. You can reef for that nasty line of black, sail through it, then sake it out when it blows past you. Why wouldn't you?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Like D’Ranger, I did significant time with CL on his last boat. In the 2015 Marion-Bermuda, we had prett shitty weather for a good part of the race and the ability to “dial-a-main” was a significant advantage short handed in the snot. With a well built sail, shape was fine for a heavy cruising boat. It would have been painful for a fractional boat as you have few shaping options. 

As BJ says, operator attention is important and  older and blown out sails could be troublesome.  You'll have less power than a traditional main with roach and battens. Not a problem upwind in 25-35 in the Gulf Stream. 

I’ve also sailed CL’s new boat with in boom LF. Better shaping and powerful. Also requires attention to technique but has the advantage mentioned above of being able to strike the sail if thing do go sideways. 

As always, comes down carelessness and lack of attention can screw up anything. I’d prefer a traditional main, then boom fueling and then in mast but wouldn’t reject the in mast outright. 

I almost didn't look at the HR53 because of the in-mast. I'm glad I didn't walk away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I wonder how much personal experience critics of inmast actually have with them?

I spent two days helping a buddy de-fuck a bolt on Selden version. I don't know how he managed it but he got the sail jammed and pulled bits of the hardware into the slot and busted lots of aux bits on a short passage in fair weather. Having everything inside an aluminum extrusion and all jammed up did not make the job easier. It was not a pretty thing. It would have been a real nightmare to clear away at sea. If I was going that route I'd look hard at behind the mast furling. All the benefits but easier access and fewer failure modes. Met a couple in the Cooks who were on their second circumnavigation who claimed that converting to behind the mast made sailing so much more fun that they decided not to stop.  Not sure I'm feeling quite that mellow yet but I understand the attraction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems there are lots of variables to consider. Upwind performance is important to you, and based on where you sail light wind conditions in the summer can be pretty common. So far it still not clear how much a performance hit you will take with an in mast system. Perhaps a local sailmaker can help out.

Another issue is the size of the proposed boat. Once you go to a cruising oriented rig some booms can get high and often out of reach for flaking reefing sail covers etc.  A 40 ft cruiser will have 3X the displacement of your Dash so sails will be much heavier. I know folks will point out they have reefed and flaked huge mains on 60 footers, but that does not mean it was any fun, especially for your wife and an inexperienced second owner. I am a fit 6 ft fit middle aged guy and if I went any bigger than my 35 ft racer/cruiser I would be considering something other than a conventional main (10k displacement with a fact rig). Up to a certain size I think an in boom set up is better since if something goes wrong you can still drop the sail and lash it down. On large boats the in boom system get to be very heavy, something I had not considered until the recent report of the loss of the rig of a big boat when the boom got loose in bad conditions.

A final point that may have been fixed with newer systems is the noise the mast makes in a blow with the sails down. BJ can probably comment on this but it would drive me nuts on a longer cruise. It was bad enough being next to one in a marina for one night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Headsail furlers can jam/fail too and yet most of us have them (near 100% on cruising boats). 

Mainsail furlers are similar.  Once you admit to yourself that you aren't racing, the poor sail shape is a small price to pay for the incredible convenience.  Sure, you can fuck it up, but what part of sailing can you not fuck up?  

Mainsail furlers are an abomination before God, but they let us sail larger boats than we could otherwise with only our wives for crew.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, MaxDog said:

Headsail furlers can jam/fail too and yet most of us have them (near 100% on cruising boats). 

Mainsail furlers are similar.

Similar in principle, but the detail of inside the mast is not without costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I head a headsail fuller jam on my old boat with the sail 1/3 furled. In that situation there was no way to lower the sail, cutting the halyard would have not helped. Since the top swivel was the problem the only true fix would be to go up the mast. I am not that brave, especially with 2/3rds of the jib flailing about. In then end we yanked, swore and got lucky and the damn thing let loose. At one point I was seriously considering undoing the sheets and motoring around in circles to furl the sail, something the would not have worked on a jammed main.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm.  In the case of a jammed mainsail furler with the sail partly out, can you tie a line through the clew ring, pull the clew forward to the mast, then start rolling the sail around itself?  Or put gaskets around the sail and the mast working from bottom to top to get the sail under control to some extent? 

For the record, we're thinking of max 35 feet - it will mostly be coastal cruising and generally one couple on board, with maybe some adult children from time to time.  Bigger than that and short-tacking up a narrow channel won't be an option anymore.  We like to sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, steele said:

A final point that may have been fixed with newer systems is the noise the mast makes in a blow with the sails down. BJ can probably comment on this but it would drive me nuts on a longer cruise. It was bad enough being next to one in a marina for one night.

Now this is interesting.  We spend quite a bit of time at anchor tied to the shore with the wind from different angles i.e. not necessarily bow into the wind.   Recipe for some sleepless nights?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had a mast furled main jam on a charter boat, luckily near the home base. The "boss" showed us how to unfurl and furl with the boat facing downwind at the dock. His crew worked their asses off to clear that mess up.

We own a boat with in boom furling and we love it. We know that, just like the jib, we trade performance for convenience. The convenience gets us out when we may not have without it. We can reef as much or little as necessary and enjoy the sail. We will never own a boat without some type of boom furling. We are recent retirees and wish to sail many more years. Stuff like furling will enable that.

Having said that I know it's not for everybody but that's what's cool about sailing. Lots of options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MaxDog said:

Headsail furlers can jam/fail too and yet most of us have them (near 100% on cruising boats). 

Mainsail furlers are similar.  Once you admit to yourself that you aren't racing, the poor sail shape is a small price to pay for the incredible convenience.  Sure, you can fuck it up, but what part of sailing can you not fuck up?  

Mainsail furlers are an abomination before God, but they let us sail larger boats than we could otherwise with only our wives for crew.

If I had more than one wife I wouldn’t need the furler. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, steele said:

It seems there are lots of variables to consider. Upwind performance is important to you, and based on where you sail light wind conditions in the summer can be pretty common. So far it still not clear how much a performance hit you will take with an in mast system. Perhaps a local sailmaker can help out.

Another issue is the size of the proposed boat. Once you go to a cruising oriented rig some booms can get high and often out of reach for flaking reefing sail covers etc.  A 40 ft cruiser will have 3X the displacement of your Dash so sails will be much heavier. I know folks will point out they have reefed and flaked huge mains on 60 footers, but that does not mean it was any fun, especially for your wife and an inexperienced second owner. I am a fit 6 ft fit middle aged guy and if I went any bigger than my 35 ft racer/cruiser I would be considering something other than a conventional main (10k displacement with a fact rig). Up to a certain size I think an in boom set up is better since if something goes wrong you can still drop the sail and lash it down. On large boats the in boom system get to be very heavy, something I had not considered until the recent report of the loss of the rig of a big boat when the boom got loose in bad conditions.

A final point that may have been fixed with newer systems is the noise the mast makes in a blow with the sails down. BJ can probably comment on this but it would drive me nuts on a longer cruise. It was bad enough being next to one in a marina for one night.

My main weighs about 130 lbs. My wife, who does not like to hold the boat to windward from the helm, is less than that by a fair bit. All 5'4" of her.

We don't take the sails down much unless they need repairing. It is annoying, but in such an infinitesimally number of occurrences, so it's not really a problem. The banging is worse than the howling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Elegua said:
4 hours ago, MaxDog said:

Headsail furlers can jam/fail too and yet most of us have them (near 100% on cruising boats). 

Mainsail furlers are similar.  Once you admit to yourself that you aren't racing, the poor sail shape is a small price to pay for the incredible convenience.  Sure, you can fuck it up, but what part of sailing can you not fuck up?  

Mainsail furlers are an abomination before God, but they let us sail larger boats than we could otherwise with only our wives for crew.

If I had more than one wife I wouldn’t need the furler. 

I could make a similar case if my wife was eight feet tall and built like the East German Olympic Team.

image.png.31878d8b50b9ba9fde76a6c07a268330.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

My main weighs about 130 lbs. My wife, who does not like to hold the boat to windward from the helm, is less than that by a fair bit. All 5'4" of her.

We don't take the sails down much unless they need repairing. It is annoying, but in such an infinitesimally number of occurrences, so it's not really a problem. The banging is worse than the howling.

I have never weighed my main, but the wife is about 100 lbs. She neither bangs nor howls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, steele said:

I have never weighed my main, but the wife is about 100 lbs. She neither bangs nor howls.

yeah, once they're married.....

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

No. The clew will be jammed inside the mast, under some number of wraps of the main.

Wouldn't the tack be the corner jammed in the mast?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jammer Six said:

Oh, for christ's sake.

Yes, I got it backwards. Again.

Never mind, its late.  Thanks for the thoughts on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dash34 said:

Wouldn't the tack be the corner jammed in the mast?

Unlikely. The tack usually sits all by itself in a big open space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dash:

I can't answer your original question as I've mostly raced well-rigged boats between 33 and 41 ft.  We daysail our 41 these days.  

It sounds like you enjoy the shape of a nice main and are keeping the boat to 35 ft or so.  

On our 35, it wasn't much of an issue to manage the slugged main.  It was pretty easy to manhandle. 

As boat gets bigger sails get heavier and stack height can be problematic (On our 41, I have to climb a couple of mast steps to undo the main halyard).  Harken type sliders and track would make it even worse.

Our 41 is awesome for fully crewed racing, but is too big to manually singlehand unless fitted like BJ and others above.  Our 35 was much easier to singlehand.

What's the old rule: costs double with every extra 10 ft and maintenance costs triple?  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jammer Six said:
9 hours ago, dash34 said:

Hmmm.  In the case of a jammed mainsail furler with the sail partly out, can you tie a line through the clew ring, pull the clew forward to the mast, then start rolling the sail around itself?

No. The clew will be jammed inside the mast, under some number of wraps of the main.

Definitely backwards.

You REALLY have to suck at furling to get your clew wrapped inside the rest of the sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again I can only talk about Hood systems, but you can get a massive howl when you are at a dock and the wind greater than about 10 knots is coming at an angle of about 130°. It does not happen at anchor or on a can because the wind never comes from that angle with any speed. The answer is a thing called a flute-stopper which you hoist up with a flag halyard. It is a piece of stiff sail cloth with a large plastic button grommeted on to it about every 18". You hoist this with a masthead flag halyard with the cloth inserted inside the cavity and the buttons on the outside. Works perfectly and with practice takes about five minutes to hoist.

For the OP, with the size you are considering and the kind of usage you want I probably would go with a standard main. We have sold our Bristol because it was too big for Lake Ontario and have bought a Catalina 36. There were lots of C36s with furling mains but we wanted the performance of a standard rig. If we could have founded a tall mast with shoal keel that checked all the other boxes. Boat we have is standard mast. Different horses for different courses. if we were going offshore again I would look for a furling main but the boat would be in the 42 to 50' range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

On large boats the in boom system get to be very heavy, something I had not considered until the recent report of the loss of the rig of a big boat when the boom got loose in bad conditions.

In my experience this is greatly under-appreciated. Good application for carbon fiber, both the mandrel and the shell.

Some designs put a motor at the end of the boom. Bad idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd not be worried about main handling on a 35' sloop. That is a modest sail, around 300 - 350 sq ft? A little larger than our mizzen. It isn't going to be that high, or that heavy. On a small sloop you could rig a Dutchman system and still have full battens with a roach. With a good reefing system if it takes you more than a minute to put in a reef, you need to either clean up the hardware or practice more. I don't understand the argument that with roller furling you can "do it all from the cockpit". This has been done with slab reefing for decades, just run the lines aft. My main is 960 sq ft and weighs around 200 lbs with the battens. I can still reef it in about a minute. Setting it takes at most 2 minutes. Dropping it about 10 seconds. All by myself, from the cockpit. When shit breaks or goes sideways or I have to take the sail off, then I wish it were smaller - but 350 sq ft would be a gift. Even 500 sq ft is pretty manageable. 

Now since you are sailing the PNW you will in reality be motoring anyway, so it doesn't really matter. I have heard the slots howl in marinas, it is quite loud when the wind is from the wrong direction - much louder than a noisy wind generator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, just to get the discussion back on track, our current boat has a 15' boom and 40' luff with slugs, so we have no problem handling that size of conventional mainsail.  Piece of cake. The problem is that I keep running across decent coastal cruising boats with in-mast furling mains (here's an example:  https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&amp;units=Feet&amp;id=3140010&amp;lang=en&amp;slim=broker&amp;&amp;hosturl=AvisoYachtSales&amp;&amp;ywo=AvisoYachtSales&amp;)

which are right next door to me.  The only thing I don't like about this boat is the furling main.  I'm trying to tap the experience here to help decide if it will work for our future cruising plans and partnership.  As for whether or not Bendyslows are actually decent boats, well, there are lots of threads on that.  Not planning to go offshore so they are in the running.

Thanks for all the thoughts.  I've learned enough to go into this reasonably well informed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will give up some upwind performance with in mast, the vertical battens do help both shape and longevity, they make life easy for cruising so to me not a deal killer. Just request a test sail before buying and try it out.  The listing looks nice, sailing condo as long as you aren't in a hurry should be fine. Would suggest getting an asym with a sock.  As someone mentioned earlier in light air you will be motoring. 

edit; food for thought and thinking of Bob - there are some older cruisers who don't have the spacious layouts like your listing but sail very well, the Islander Freeport 36 for an example.  As someone who has spent most of their life racing it's hard to go slow.  I want a foiling cruiser now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, dash34 said:
9 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

Oh, for christ's sake.

Yes, I got it backwards. Again.

Never mind, its late.  Thanks for the thoughts on this.

One would think he'd be used to it by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a sailing perspective, in the Bendytoy line we'd be better off with something like a 36.7 but we can't find a good one at a decent price.  The search continues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dash34 said:

Yeah, just to get the discussion back on track, our current boat has a 15' boom and 40' luff with slugs, so we have no problem handling that size of conventional mainsail.  Piece of cake. The problem is that I keep running across decent coastal cruising boats with in-mast furling mains (here's an example:  https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&amp;units=Feet&amp;id=3140010&amp;lang=en&amp;slim=broker&amp;&amp;hosturl=AvisoYachtSales&amp;&amp;ywo=AvisoYachtSales&amp;)

which are right next door to me.  The only thing I don't like about this boat is the furling main.  I'm trying to tap the experience here to help decide if it will work for our future cruising plans and partnership.  As for whether or not Bendyslows are actually decent boats, well, there are lots of threads on that.  Not planning to go offshore so they are in the running.

Thanks for all the thoughts.  I've learned enough to go into this reasonably well informed.

Was it a charter boat? 3300 hours on a 12-year-old Yanmar is pretty unusual. Our boat was originally in charter and had the Yanmar replaced after 12 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Was it a charter boat? 3300 hours on a 12-year-old Yanmar is pretty unusual. Our boat was originally in charter and had the Yanmar replaced after 12 years.

Haven't convinced myself to go look at it yet to find out.  One can only speculate at this point - we do get a lot of light air here, particularly in the Gulf Islands where it looks like it was based.  It certainly is a concern.  I would expect the interior would be more beat up if it had been in the charter fleet for 12 years - the companionway stairs look to be in decent shape but should be very worn.  How many hours did your Yanmar have when you replaced it, or was it replaced before you got it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kdh said:

In my experience this is greatly under-appreciated. Good application for carbon fiber, both the mandrel and the shell.

Some designs put a motor at the end of the boom. Bad idea.

I was really surprised by the weight of our old Valiant 40 boom, can appreciate the topping lift and boom gallows now.

i could just lift the end back up on to the gallows, a new light one is somewhere on my to do list.

in contrast, the Adams 36 boom is the same size, we just use a boomkicker to hold it up, easy to loft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dash34 said:

Haven't convinced myself to go look at it yet to find out.  One can only speculate at this point - we do get a lot of light air here, particularly in the Gulf Islands where it looks like it was based.  It certainly is a concern.  I would expect the interior would be more beat up if it had been in the charter fleet for 12 years - the companionway stairs look to be in decent shape but should be very worn.  How many hours did your Yanmar have when you replaced it, or was it replaced before you got it?

The motor was replaced in 1996, we got the boat in 2006. At that point, the new motor had 1200 hours on it. That was one of the major attractions of that boat.

Our boat looked pretty good in the pictures, but when I got there to take a look, I found that the V-berth cushions were upside down, and the designed up side was just a mass of threads held together by hope and habit. We tossed all the original cushions and had new ones made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In-mast furling can be ok if you have a properly designed and cut mainsail, with vertical battens, and you keep your system in  top shape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A friend has the Beneteau 323 with a standard main. It sails fine for a that type of boat, and although the interior is a bit odd, it works quite well. The same can be said for the cockpit, the pivoting wheel does free up space at anchor. For some reasone the 323 and 343 have huge heads and showers which eat into storage but for costal cruising you can make it work. It overall seems better built than the newer generation french boats.

If you can stretch your budget this would be a nice cruiser for an x-racer, http://swiftsureyachts.com/products/secret-might-blue-perry-bella-40/. Bigger boat but relatively small main and big roller jib might keep the whole package manageable. If you can find one a C&C 99 would be closer in price to the beneteau and sail great. A couple we know have one and spent about a month up in San Juans this summer and like it alot.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, d'ranger said:

You will give up some upwind performance with in mast, the vertical battens do help both shape and longevity, they make life easy for cruising so to me not a deal killer. Just request a test sail before buying and try it out.  The listing looks nice, sailing condo as long as you aren't in a hurry should be fine. Would suggest getting an asym with a sock.  As someone mentioned earlier in light air you will be motoring. 

edit; food for thought and thinking of Bob - there are some older cruisers who don't have the spacious layouts like your listing but sail very well, the Islander Freeport 36 for an example.  As someone who has spent most of their life racing it's hard to go slow.  I want a foiling cruiser now.

I moved from racing a Beneteau 40.7 to the HR53.

Although the 40.7 isn't some massive speed demon, for the money it was a responsive boat and fun to sail.

When we decided to make the move to a cruising boat I wanted something that wasn't "a wallowing pig" to sail, I believe was the expression I used during the search.

It's still a major mindset adjustment.  From a blog post I wrote eleven years ago headed to my last BIRW (how the time has flown). This was still five years before I left to cruise full time.

Quote

 

Part of owning Evenstar is for me is a huge adjustment in mindset. I spent four years with Shadowfax pushing that boat to race competitively. The racing mindset is, for the lack of a better word, demented, when you compare it to how most people use their boats. Examples of this? Racers are weight freaks – we would get excited to get a new stripped core halyard with titanium shackles which cost an exorbitant amount of money, because each new halyard saved five pounds of weight up in the rig. Less weight aloft equals more speed. Anchors? One ten pounder, under the floor boards. Now I carry two on the bow at 105 pounds each with hundreds of pounds of chain anchor rode. Speed freaks, weight freaks…my speed issues now are getting to the anchorage when there is plenty of room; my weight issues are about making sure I’ve got enough batteries to run the fridge and the blender.

Literally every decision I make on the boat – from how we sail it to what gear to buy and when – is made against a completely different context. So when we order a new sail, we do not buy the lightest, fastest, latest high tech sailcloth…because we don’t need it. My money could be spent on something else more important to the cruising time on the boat. On the old boat we bought for light weight and speed, on Evenstar it’s more about ease of use and durability.

 

http://sailevenstar.com/hotel-evenstar/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a Hunter of about 45' with in mast furling moored next to my boat.  You can hear the mast howling from 200' away if there's any wind at all.  Would drive me nuts.   I'll have to look next time I'm down there- can't remember if the main is in place or off.  The noise factor can be significant in certain situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, dash34 said:

Hmmm.  In the case of a jammed mainsail furler with the sail partly out, can you tie a line through the clew ring, pull the clew forward to the mast, then start rolling the sail around itself?  Or put gaskets around the sail and the mast working from bottom to top to get the sail under control to some extent? 

For the record, we're thinking of max 35 feet - it will mostly be coastal cruising and generally one couple on board, with maybe some adult children from time to time.  Bigger than that and short-tacking up a narrow channel won't be an option anymore.  We like to sail.

I have a micro IMF (R-22).   The sail winds around an internal spindle, like somebody put a CDI jib inside the mast extrusion.   It does increase the weight aloft, just as the CDI jib does.   Disconnecting the outhaul and wrapping around the mast is the oh shit plan used by those that experience a failure.   I haven’t had to yet.   It’s also hurricane prep for the bit that hangs out when furled, plus a gasket, if trailering and dropping the mast isn’t an option.   Most repairs and sail replacement requires dropping the mast, but that can be done by one person.   Maybe somebody could explain how the large boat systems are different? I assume they have a better system for tensioning the luff, a mechanized spindle instead of human powered lines for an inhaul and outhaul, but still have a loose foot and clew that is tensioned by an outhaul?   

I find benefit is mostly on quick after work sails on windy days when reefing or controlling a douse alone, maybe in the dark, is challenging for me.   I would prefer a traditional system for all day runs up a coast in generally constant or slowly falling winds, allowing better sail shape.  Lazy jacks seem a nuisance to rig every time you launch a trailerable.   Reefing during a pop up gale near a lee shore on my boat is still dangerous, as you need to get to the boom end to free the outhaul. 

My only noise is the spindle clunking inside the extrusion at anchor, quieter then halyards clanging on other boats.   

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, boatcat65 said:

There's a Hunter of about 45' with in mast furling moored next to my boat.  You can hear the mast howling from 200' away if there's any wind at all.  Would drive me nuts.   I'll have to look next time I'm down there- can't remember if the main is in place or off.  The noise factor can be significant in certain situations.

Read my post above about flute-stoppers. The owner of the boat might not know about them and those around him would appreciate the courtesy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lark said:

I have a micro IMF (R-22).   The sail winds around an internal spindle, like somebody put a CDI jib inside the mast extrusion.   It does increase the weight aloft, just as the CDI jib does.   Disconnecting the outhaul and wrapping around the mast is the oh shit plan used by those that experience a failure.   I haven’t had to yet.   It’s also hurricane prep for the bit that hangs out when furled, plus a gasket, if trailering and dropping the mast isn’t an option.   Most repairs and sail replacement requires dropping the mast, but that can be done by one person.   Maybe somebody could explain how the large boat systems are different? I assume they have a better system for tensioning the luff, a mechanized spindle instead of human powered lines for an inhaul and outhaul, but still have a loose foot and clew that is tensioned by an outhaul?   

I find benefit is mostly on quick after work sails on windy days when reefing or controlling a douse alone, maybe in the dark, is challenging for me.   I would prefer a traditional system for all day runs up a coast in generally constant or slowly falling winds, allowing better sail shape.  Lazy jacks seem a nuisance to rig every time you launch a trailerable.   Reefing during a pop up gale near a lee shore on my boat is still dangerous, as you need to get to the boom end to free the outhaul. 

My only noise is the spindle clunking inside the extrusion at anchor, quieter then halyards clanging on other boats.   

 

 

With a Hood system there is a foil inside the mast with a track and the sail is like a furling genoa. the head of the sail attaches to a swivel. This is hoisted via a normal halyard that goes to a three speed winch on the mast (no particular understanding why the main and jib winches are three speed). The foil is attached to an electric motor inside the mast that you use to take in or release sail, while loosening or tightening the outhaul which goes to a winch next to the cockpit. To get sail in or out you manage the motor switch and outhaul in concert. You can take the whole sail into the mast in perhaps 30 to 40 seconds. 'Hoisting' sail takes considerable longer as you turn the sail a bit and then tension the outhaul, then rinse and repeat. the tricky bit is the first third where you can get too much sail unspooled in relation to the outhaul tension. The mast extrusion has a separate, round part just for the sail so the sail is not inside the main part of the mast, hence there is no banging at anchor - the furled sail pretty much fills the cavity. The moan can happen though when docked with the wrong wind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dash34 said:

Yeah, just to get the discussion back on track, our current boat has a 15' boom and 40' luff with slugs, so we have no problem handling that size of conventional mainsail.  Piece of cake. The problem is that I keep running across decent coastal cruising boats with in-mast furling mains (here's an example:  https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&amp;units=Feet&amp;id=3140010&amp;lang=en&amp;slim=broker&amp;&amp;hosturl=AvisoYachtSales&amp;&amp;ywo=AvisoYachtSales&amp;)

which are right next door to me.  The only thing I don't like about this boat is the furling main.  I'm trying to tap the experience here to help decide if it will work for our future cruising plans and partnership.  As for whether or not Bendyslows are actually decent boats, well, there are lots of threads on that.  Not planning to go offshore so they are in the running.

Thanks for all the thoughts.  I've learned enough to go into this reasonably well informed.

You can convert to a conventional main but I don't really know if it would be financially a good idea. Harken make a track that bolts onto the aft face of the mast covering the slot. You can use a conventional main with Battcars then. You would also need a new sail so it would add up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

With a Hood system there is a foil inside the mast with a track and the sail is like a furling genoa. the head of the sail attaches to a swivel. This is hoisted via a normal halyard that goes to a three speed winch on the mast (no particular understanding why the main and jib winches are three speed). The foil is attached to an electric motor inside the mast that you use to take in or release sail, while loosening or tightening the outhaul which goes to a winch next to the cockpit. To get sail in or out you manage the motor switch and outhaul in concert. You can take the whole sail into the mast in perhaps 30 to 40 seconds. 'Hoisting' sail takes considerable longer as you turn the sail a bit and then tension the outhaul, then rinse and repeat. the tricky bit is the first third where you can get too much sail unspooled in relation to the outhaul tension. The mast extrusion has a separate, round part just for the sail so the sail is not inside the main part of the mast, hence there is no banging at anchor - the furled sail pretty much fills the cavity. The moan can happen though when docked with the wrong wind.

Thanks.   What is involved with replacing a sail?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lark said:

Thanks.   What is involved with replacing a sail?   

You attach the three corners and feed the sail into the slot in the foil inside the mast as you hoist the halyard. Pretty much as you would hoist a furling genoa except easier because the person on the winch can also do the feeding if a second person is not around. To remove a sail you disconnect the tack and pull the sail out of the foil as you ease the halyard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bristol-Cruiser said:

You attach the three corners and feed the sail into the slot in the foil inside the mast as you hoist the halyard. Pretty much as you would hoist a furling genoa except easier because the person on the winch can also do the feeding if a second person is not around. To remove a sail you disconnect the tack and pull the sail out of the foil as you ease the halyard.

I appreciate the education,   I assumed there must be some mechanism for emergency replacement or repair at sea. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with hoisting in mast mains is that they don't have a proper feeder meaning that you can only do a few feet at a time. Putting the luff tape through a pre feeder helps a little. It is a job best done early in the morning when there is usually no wind. Tie the outhaul to the clew very loosely and let it flap around during hoisting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, savoir said:

The problem with hoisting in mast mains is that they don't have a proper feeder meaning that you can only do a few feet at a time. Putting the luff tape through a pre feeder helps a little. It is a job best done early in the morning when there is usually no wind. Tie the outhaul to the clew very loosely and let it flap around during hoisting

But on the plus side, you only have to do it every now and then. Not that often, though it can be a pain in the ass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, savoir said:

The problem with hoisting in mast mains is that they don't have a proper feeder meaning that you can only do a few feet at a time.

In my limited experience vertical battens are a bit of a pain to install too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, weightless said:
8 hours ago, savoir said:

The problem with hoisting in mast mains is that they don't have a proper feeder meaning that you can only do a few feet at a time.

In my limited experience vertical battens are a bit of a pain to install too.

Honestly, the aggravation putting the sail up and down every few months is totally worth it for the ease of use the other 360ish days of the year you don't have to screw around with hoisting and flaking.

As full time cruisers we take it down for inspection and repairs, if needed.

It's a big sail, it's going to be a pain in the tuchas no matter what you are doing with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm seventy two years old and I single hand our Bene 40.7 in up to 20 kts all the time (well, actually, we don't see 20 all that often here in SoCal) using a Dutchman flaking system on Quantum Fusion main. It's not that hard to do even for me but what I'm giving up is being able to shorten, dowse and flake sails on short notice. For me, I have to plan carefully just hoisting and, sure as hell, as soon as I start, a crap load of power boats materialize out of nowhere hauling ass and there I am up at the cabin roof cranking on the halyard winch. So, I understand that a mainsail furling system has its benefits. I would still prefer to live without the failure potential and performance losses but if the OP likes a certain boat, I'd say learn to live with furling. As for me, I'm gonna buy an electric capstan or winch when it gets to be too much for this old bod. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kinardly said:

I'm seventy two years old and I single hand our Bene 40.7 in up to 20 kts all the time (well, actually, we don't see 20 all that often here in SoCal) using a Dutchman flaking system on Quantum Fusion main. It's not that hard to do even for me but what I'm giving up is being able to shorten, dowse and flake sails on short notice. For me, I have to plan carefully just hoisting and, sure as hell, as soon as I start, a crap load of power boats materialize out of nowhere hauling ass and there I am up at the cabin roof cranking on the halyard winch. So, I understand that a mainsail furling system has its benefits. I would still prefer to live without the failure potential and performance losses but if the OP likes a certain boat, I'd say learn to live with furling. As for me, I'm gonna buy an electric capstan or winch when it gets to be too much for this old bod. 

I used to threaten my tactician/weight nazi with installing an electric winch back when I had a 40.7....it was pretty funny how worked up you could get him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Honestly, the aggravation putting the sail up and down every few months is totally worth it for the ease of use the other 360ish days of the year you don't have to screw around with hoisting and flaking.

As full time cruisers we take it down for inspection and repairs, if needed.

It's a big sail, it's going to be a pain in the tuchas no matter what you are doing with it.

 

Try it bachelor fashion - solo. Mine is a fair size with a 60 ft luff and 18 ft boom. Lowering and flaking it at the end of summer takes an hour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kinardly said:

I'm seventy two years old and I single hand our Bene 40.7 in up to 20 kts all the time (well, actually, we don't see 20 all that often here in SoCal) using a Dutchman flaking system on Quantum Fusion main. It's not that hard to do even for me but what I'm giving up is being able to shorten, dowse and flake sails on short notice. For me, I have to plan carefully just hoisting and, sure as hell, as soon as I start, a crap load of power boats materialize out of nowhere hauling ass and there I am up at the cabin roof cranking on the halyard winch. So, I understand that a mainsail furling system has its benefits. I would still prefer to live without the failure potential and performance losses but if the OP likes a certain boat, I'd say learn to live with furling. As for me, I'm gonna buy an electric capstan or winch when it gets to be too much for this old bod. 

I've had an electric winch for the full battened main on my last 2 boats.  I should be in better shape, but I'm not, so it's rather nice.

This most recent boat, I added an electric mainsheet winch.  Trying to sail with a hernia wasn't much fun, so I got that fixed prior to the new boat and spec'd the electric winch. No regrets.  Really!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, savoir said:
14 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Honestly, the aggravation putting the sail up and down every few months is totally worth it for the ease of use the other 360ish days of the year you don't have to screw around with hoisting and flaking.

As full time cruisers we take it down for inspection and repairs, if needed.

It's a big sail, it's going to be a pain in the tuchas no matter what you are doing with it.

 

Try it bachelor fashion - solo. Mine is a fair size with a 60 ft luff and 18 ft boom. Lowering and flaking it at the end of summer takes an hour.

That's all? What are you bitching about that then? We spend at least that much time, maybe more with 2-3 people on ours!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's all? What are you bitching about that then? We spend at least that much time, maybe more with 2-3 people on ours!

Yes, but you are apparently abysmally inept.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's all? What are you bitching about that then? We spend at least that much time, maybe more with 2-3 people on ours!

 

Bloody hell ! If I had 3 people I could lower and flake the main in 15 minutes provided the wind was light. 

Did you remember to put your beer down before starting ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, savoir said:
1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's all? What are you bitching about that then? We spend at least that much time, maybe more with 2-3 people on ours!

 

Bloody hell ! If I had 3 people I could lower and flake the main in 15 minutes provided the wind was light. 

Did you remember to put your beer down before starting ?

Depends on the people...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites