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Fat Point Jack

Does this happen often in your neighborhood?

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Last week up in North Port, Deputy Dumfuck of the Sarasota County Sheriff's swat team left his cruiser unlocked on his home driveway.  Two young fellows came along doing their civic duty of checking to be sure all of the cars were locked.  When they came to Deputy Dumfuck's they found the door unlocked and took his sniper tool and two other of his tools.   The sheriff said that he was more than disappointed in the deputy.  The young civic minded fellows were arrested and the tools were recovered.

Yesterday at the store another dumfuck calls up and asks if we found his handtool in the store.  When he got home it was not in his holster and did not know where it was.

I hope that you folks are more careful than these citizens.

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Civic-minded youths can go right through a locked car door pretty quickly. Tools shouldn't be left in cars.

As for your customer, WTF? Meaning, where the fuck did he buy a tool that is so light he could fail to notice? I want to buy one!

All of mine are impossible to avoid noticing if worn.

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Whaddya want?

It's Floriduh.

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The sooner this sort of occurrence is treated as gross negligence, followed by a minimum 1 month jail sentence with a life time ban on gun ownership, the sooner this shit will stop. 

Just implement some common sense laws. 

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In my neighborhood I use to be able to leave the windows down over night with all my sailing gear in there...  now I have to lock the car and close my garage door during the day if I want to keep my shit....  thank you AB109, and props 41 and 51....

 

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

huh, wonder why the common sense laws don't get enforced?

Enlighten us all, the laws aren’t pursued for government, state or public offenders when it comes to shit like this. 

Why is that? Incompetence from the authorities? Loopholes in the laws? 

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

huh, wonder why the common sense laws don't get enforced?

Because idiots like Mismoyled Jiblet Raz'r et al... voted for Props 41 and 51, and then for the idiots that passed AB109 in California with moving some felonies down to misdemeanor, and some misdemeanors to summons offense... cops don't even bother trying anymore.

Friend of wife got her car stolen in Long Beach...  she was asked when it was stolen and told them it was there when she went to bed... gone in the morning... asked if she had the registration with the vin and the plate number... told her to go online and file a report and she'll get an email from them for the insurance company..

 

 

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55 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

So is the deputy still employed?

Probably applying for a sheriff position on a lake somewhere. :ph34r:

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As a mechanic, who occasionally works on police vehicles, mostly city stuff, I've opened several trunks to find AR 15's piled in with other cop gear. I've asked several officers if such was a breach of weapon safety. They mostly just say "It's a cop car, who would fuck with that".

So, there's that. 

 

 

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Cops are people too.

 You don't need to be a robot to be a cop.

I have  several police officer friends that used to stop by my house/shop at 10 AM, Noon.... Other times.

 They were comfortable in their surroundings.

 Usually they'd drop their gun belts on my work bench. Occasionally, if it was hot, they'd shed their vests. Have a cuppa coffee, a coke, If it was lunch time, a burger or a bowl of stew, if it was winter.....

 But they always had their cruisers locked, even in my driveway. And I was, and am way off the paved road.

 

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54 minutes ago, Prof Anthrax said:

As a mechanic, who occasionally works on police vehicles, mostly city stuff, I've opened several trunks to find AR 15's piled in with other cop gear. I've asked several officers if such was a breach of weapon safety. They mostly just say "It's a cop car, who would fuck with that".

So, there's that. 

 

 

Civic minded youth who are aware that it's a more likely target than other cars and the paint does nothing to make it harder to enter?

What do I win?

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5 hours ago, Not guilty said:

we live in a gated community.  

Must suck to live in such fear. Your poor little snowflake, do you really think that a few low walls and a kindergarten cop in a gatehouse are going to stop the hordes of brown skin devils sweeping in and raping your womenfolk? Wait. Womenfolk. Sorry, carry on. Your President is going to be living in a gated community sometime in the near future as well. One were everyone wears the same colour jumpsuit. 

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6 hours ago, nacradriver said:

Because idiots like Mismoyled Jiblet Raz'r et al... voted for Props 41 and 51, and then for the idiots that passed AB109 in California with moving some felonies down to misdemeanor, and some misdemeanors to summons offense... cops don't even bother trying anymore.

Friend of wife got her car stolen in Long Beach...  she was asked when it was stolen and told them it was there when she went to bed... gone in the morning... asked if she had the registration with the vin and the plate number... told her to go online and file a report and she'll get an email from them for the insurance company..

 

 

The chances of finding a stolen car with evidence to convict are almost zero. Cops are too busy with domestic violence matters to worry about a car

 

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6 hours ago, nacradriver said:

In my neighborhood I use to be able to leave the windows down over night with all my sailing gear in there...  now I have to lock the car and close my garage door during the day if I want to keep my shit....  thank you AB109, and props 41 and 51....

 

I haven't locked my front door since I moved in 6 yrs ago.  Maybe you need to upgrade your neighborhood.

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3 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I haven't locked my front door since I moved in 6 yrs ago.  Maybe you need to upgrade your neighborhood.

Maybe you need to upgrade your dwelling. I have stuff that other people want.

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8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Maybe you need to upgrade your dwelling. I have stuff that other people want.

You fucked up.  I have three pictures that have meaning to me.  The rest can burn and be easily replaced.  

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:
7 hours ago, Not guilty said:

we live in a gated community.  

Must suck to live in such fear. Your poor little snowflake, do you really think that a few low walls and a kindergarten cop in a gatehouse are going to stop the hordes of brown skin devils sweeping in and raping your womenfolk? Wait. Womenfolk. Sorry, carry on. Your President is going to be living in a gated community sometime in the near future as well. One were everyone wears the same colour jumpsuit. 

I live near one of those places. We call it Stepford. Always beautifully kept, perfect swimming pool - never with any children in it. Never with any people in it. Never a sign of life in the entire place other than the occasional car at the gate. Utterly soulless.

Unsurprising and entirely appropriate that NG would live in a place like that.

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9 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

You fucked up.  I have three pictures that have meaning to me.  The rest can burn and be easily replaced.  

Sounds like a fairly empty life. From where I'm sitting I can see 13 pictures that have a whole bunch of meaning to me - they were painted by my mother decades ago.

Lots of other stuff like that in the rest of the house - childrens creations from when they were little, things inherited from grandparents - a lifetime of things like that.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Sounds like a fairly empty life. From where I'm sitting I can see 13 pictures that have a whole bunch of meaning to me - they were painted by my mother decades ago.

Lots of other stuff like that in the rest of the house - childrens creations from when they were little, things inherited from grandparents - a lifetime of things like that.

I'm guessing you are not divorced?  And I should add no children.  

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Nope - 38 years.

My kid is in the middle of one if that counts.

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Your son probably already knows this, but the whole process is a lot easier with a piece on the side.  

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I thought the piece on the side was what initiated the whole process?

Chicken / Egg

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8 hours ago, Not guilty said:

 No not really, but we live in a gated community.  

No surprise you do. Every house beige, devoid of any variation or culture.  I'm not sure how long I could stand it. But when the old guy stops by to measure my lawn? That would be the point I would probably kill myself. Hang myself from the perfectly manicured tree in front of the clubhouse for all to see when they show up for the monthly Neighborhood Negro Watch meeting.

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3 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

The chances of finding a stolen car with evidence to convict are almost zero. Cops are too busy with domestic violence matters to worry about a car

 

“They got us working in shifts!”

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3 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

I'm guessing you are not divorced?  And I should add no children.  

Exactly, nothing like a divorce to help you realise what’s important and that you didn’t really need most of the shit that you had. 

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12 hours ago, mad said:

Enlighten us all, the laws aren’t pursued for government, state or public offenders when it comes to shit like this. 

Why is that? Incompetence from the authorities? Loopholes in the laws? 

Whistleblower punishment?

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10 minutes ago, Not guilty said:

Your racism has no bounds does it? You have been called out multiple times. Unless you change your ways i believe I will no longer respond to your hate.

Please put everybody on ignore.

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13 hours ago, benwynn said:

No surprise you do. Every house beige, devoid of any variation or culture.  I'm not sure how long I could stand it. But when the old guy stops by to measure my lawn? That would be the point I would probably kill myself. Hang myself from the perfectly manicured tree in front of the clubhouse for all to see when they show up for the monthly Neighborhood Negro Watch meeting.

HOAs suck.   I keep my place like *I* like it, and aside from Mom and my Wife?  I don't care who else does or doesn't like it - and judging from the ready stream of folks who tend to show up around suppertime?  my wife's cooking is enough to make them overcome any squeamishness about my landscaping habits. 

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15 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

I haven't locked my front door since I moved in 6 yrs ago.  Maybe you need to upgrade your neighborhood.

I am in the upgraded neighborhood...why do you think they are hitting us...

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1 hour ago, Not guilty said:

Your racism has no bounds does it? You have been called out multiple times. Unless you change your ways i believe I will no longer respond to your hate.

Somebody pinch me.

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54 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

HOAs suck.  

Don't get me started.... 

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1 minute ago, Not guilty said:

I like mine, they keep the neighborhood looking nice. The only thing I have seen them bitch about is yard maintenance and keep the cars out of the yard.

Welcome back Dabs Lite.

Only a "small gov't" advocate would love his HOA. 

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I'm assuming that's an acronym, not a regional spelling for a woman of questionable ethical character.....

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5 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

I'm assuming that's an acronym, not a regional spelling for a woman of questionable ethical character.....

HOA - HomeOwner Association.

Think of all of the little nerds in your life and they suddenly have power over the color of your house, the look of the front yard, etc, etc, etc

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4 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

They caught both punks, dumb fucks, 2 18 year old black kids. They stole his SWAT  gear including his sniper rifle which they were trying to sell around town for $300 a undercover took them up on the deal.... this was after the story was on TV and in the papers. 

If they had not already managed it in some way that didn't make headlines, they've now fucked their lives pretty permanently. At 18.

We'll move on but the system won't forget. It's sad.

The thread hijack is more interesting. We don't have an HOA here because my dad (with my support) overrode the strong advice of his lawyers and refused to create one. Among other things, this might mean that my deeded access to the neighborhood boat ramp exists only on paper and isn't enforceable because... you need an HOA for that.

That's OK.

HOA's were designed to prevent people like my neighbor who has the backhoe. He also has another backhoe. And a swamp buggy. And a swamp track. And a big trailer that can carry any of the above. And a big enclosed trailer. And an airboat. About 6 normal boats, plus zombies. And a seaplane. And a race car. And three decaying cars that don't move. And a fleet of cars that do. And several golf carts. And a fork lift. And lots of ATV's. And two cement mixers. I could go on, but you can imagine just from the short list how an HOA would react to his yard. About the opposite of the way I do.

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2 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

If they had not already managed it in some way that didn't make headlines, they've now fucked their lives pretty permanently. At 18.

We'll move on but the system won't forget. It's sad.

The thread hijack is more interesting. We don't have an HOA here because my dad (with my support) overrode the strong advice of his lawyers and refused to create one. Among other things, this might mean that my deeded access to the neighborhood boat ramp exists only on paper and isn't enforceable because... you need an HOA for that.

That's OK.

HOA's were designed to prevent people like my neighbor who has the backhoe. He also has another backhoe. And a swamp buggy. And a swamp track. And a big trailer that can carry any of the above. And a big enclosed trailer. And an airboat. About 6 normal boats, plus zombies. And a seaplane. And a race car. And three decaying cars that don't move. And a fleet of cars that do. And several golf carts. And a fork lift. And lots of ATV's. And two cement mixers. I could go on, but you can imagine just from the short list how an HOA would react to his yard. About the opposite of the way I do.

I well regulated hoa can still let your neighbors have toys. It depends on the members.

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6 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I well regulated hoa can still let your neighbors have toys. It depends on the members.

Indeed, and I have two neighbors who are exactly the type who would want to be involved in the HOA, unlike backhoe man and me.

One put up several hundred feet of privacy fence so he doesn't have to look at the above list and the rest I didn't mention. His yard is immaculate.

The other would no doubt be the head.

They'd both have a good point: if either (especially the one with the fence) wanted to sell, they'd have to find a buyer who wants to live next to an awesome redneck collection. That's why gated communities and HOA's are popular. Just not with me.

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21 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Must suck to live in such fear. Your poor little snowflake, do you really think that a few low walls and a kindergarten cop in a gatehouse are going to stop the hordes of brown skin devils sweeping in and raping your womenfolk? Wait. Womenfolk. Sorry, carry on. Your President is going to be living in a gated community sometime in the near future as well. One were everyone wears the same colour jumpsuit. 

speaking of such 'hordes'..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-11/victoria-police-cctv-st-kilda-brutal-brawl-unconscious/10607528

A gang of youths stomped and kicked two Melbourne men until they lost consciousness, new CCTV footage reveals, in an assault that police have described as "brutal" and "senseless".senseless" and "brutal"

The vision, from security cameras along the St Kilda foreshore, then shows a young man rifling through one of the victim's pockets before stealing his wallet and mobile phone.

The incident follows a spate of violence in St Kilda, a popular beach precinct in Melbourne. The assault happened shortly after 11:00pm on December 1, as the three victims were walking along the foreshore near the St Kilda Surf Lifesaving Club, near Jacka Boulevard. They were approached by a group of up to 10 youths, who police said were of African-Australian appearance. The youths attacked the trio, who tried to defuse the situation by walking away. They were instead mobbed by a larger group of men.

Detective Senior Constable Nathan Sheppard from Victoria Police estimated up to 20 young people took part in the assault. "It was a totally unprovoked attack," he said.

- now I wouldn't want to live in a gated community, in most of the US. Too saccharine for me. But, aside from the obvious risks with random mass shootings, day to day living feels a heck of a lot safer in the US than the streets of Melbourne. This is just one example. Drivers in Dallas really don't do the road rage thing - again unlike Melbourne / Sydney / Brisbane. Concealed carry has some benefits, such as mostly very civil co-existence, because neither person knows if the other is carrying.

The vast majority of violence other than a nutter going nuts over here is gang / drug related - which the good people of Melbourne Aus wouldnt really care about anyway, given australian underworld activity is almost celebrated.

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9 minutes ago, dfw_sailor said:

speaking of such 'hordes'..

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-11/victoria-police-cctv-st-kilda-brutal-brawl-unconscious/10607528

A gang of youths stomped and kicked two Melbourne men until they lost consciousness, new CCTV footage reveals, in an assault that police have described as "brutal" and "senseless".senseless" and "brutal"

The vision, from security cameras along the St Kilda foreshore, then shows a young man rifling through one of the victim's pockets before stealing his wallet and mobile phone.

The incident follows a spate of violence in St Kilda, a popular beach precinct in Melbourne. The assault happened shortly after 11:00pm on December 1, as the three victims were walking along the foreshore near the St Kilda Surf Lifesaving Club, near Jacka Boulevard. They were approached by a group of up to 10 youths, who police said were of African-Australian appearance. The youths attacked the trio, who tried to defuse the situation by walking away. They were instead mobbed by a larger group of men.

Detective Senior Constable Nathan Sheppard from Victoria Police estimated up to 20 young people took part in the assault. "It was a totally unprovoked attack," he said.

- now I wouldn't want to live in a gated community, in most of the US. Too saccharine for me. But, aside from the obvious risks with random mass shootings, day to day living feels a heck of a lot safer in the US than the streets of Melbourne. This is just one example. Drivers in Dallas really don't do the road rage thing - again unlike Melbourne / Sydney / Brisbane. Concealed carry has some benefits, such as mostly very civil co-existence, because neither person knows if the other is carrying.

The vast majority of violence other than a nutter going nuts over here is gang / drug related - which the good people of Melbourne Aus wouldnt really care about anyway, given australian underworld activity is almost celebrated.

Jayzaz, Meli will freak! She claims there are no African gangs in Melbourne, little own in her stomping ground of St Kilda! I thought all the Hookers and drug dealers would have scared them away.

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More for LB......

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/12/12/08/27/melbourne-man-charged-with-22-offences-after-five-hour-ordeal (35 yrs old, probably not of 'African Australian' appearance given his age). Today

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/ten-arrested-over-crime-spree-of-carjackings-and-robberies-20181114-p50fv4.html (November 14)) The raids relate to a Halloween night crime spree during which five men allegedly threatened a young mother with a machete after ambushing her in the driveway of her home in the early hours of the morning. Ten people, mostly teenagers, have been arrested over a series of aggravated carjackings, burglaries and car thefts which occurred on Halloween night in Melbourne's south-eastern suburbs. 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/teens-charged-with-more-than-100-offences-over-melbourne-crime-spree-20181108-p50eo1.html (November 8), home burglaries, car jackings, different teens / events than the story above.)

I could go on, but I think I will stop for now. I don't read the Brisbane News so didn't research that area.

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

HOA - HomeOwner Association.

Think of all of the little nerds in your life and they suddenly have power over the color of your house, the look of the front yard, etc, etc, etc

LOL!

 Not likely!

 I wouldn't want to be a member of a club like that, that would accept someone like me as a member.

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4 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Jayzaz, Meli will freak! She claims there are no African gangs in Melbourne, little own in her stomping ground of St Kilda! I thought all the Hookers and drug dealers would have scared them away.

Maybe your thoughts are biased because of happenings in Fortitude Valley? :ph34r:

As much as the  Aus media likes to paint the US as gun crazy where you wouldn't to be out after dark, wife (Dual US / Aus citizen) and I (Aus citizen and on way to US Citizen) feel much safer at night in the US - excluding obviously unsafe areas. 

However it could be that nightime drunken random assaults have decreased since we left Melbourne in 2011.

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:
5 hours ago, Raz'r said:

HOA - HomeOwner Association.

Think of all of the little nerds in your life and they suddenly have power over the color of your house, the look of the front yard, etc, etc, etc

LOL!

 Not likely!

 I wouldn't want to be a member of a club like that, that would accept someone like me as a member.

Dweebs are great as long as they're not meddlesome.

The one with the privacy fence? Lets me use his dock all the time and his past as a contractor, engineer, and building bureaucrat is going to come in handy with an inspection on my brother's house tomorrow.

The projected Head Dweeb? Groundwater guy and environmentalist who has a $4k water test kit. First person I called when the water in my spring started coming up milky for the first time ever.

Both wonderful neighbors.

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1 hour ago, dfw_sailor said:

Maybe your thoughts are biased because of happenings in Fortitude Valley? :ph34r:

As much as the  Aus media likes to paint the US as gun crazy where you wouldn't to be out after dark, wife (Dual US / Aus citizen) and I (Aus citizen and on way to US Citizen) feel much safer at night in the US - excluding obviously unsafe areas. 

However it could be that nightime drunken random assaults have decreased since we left Melbourne in 2011.

It must be a while since you have been in Fortitude Valley! Over the past 30 years it has transformed from a sleazy red light district to a night club and party zone, full of great bars, pubs and restaurants. These days it is packed at night with young people having fun and the police presence is everywhere. Apart from the odd drunken incident, you would be hard pressed to find a safer part of Brisbane on a Friday or Saturday night. I spend a lot more time out at night in Sydney and Melbourne than I do at home here in Brisvegas, but I never feel uncomfortable walking in any of them at night. I am sure most of the US is just a safe as Australia, apart from the 300 million guns in circulation and the statistical fact that you are about 10 000 times more likely to die of a gunshot wound. Mate you are obviously spoiling for an argument but to be honest, you will have to find a better topic. You see most US posters on here accuse me of being a 'libtard', while the Aussie posters think I am a raving Trump supporter because I am a member of the Liberal party. I am glad you like the US. I think it is a wonderful country and I find most Americans to be great company - regardless of their politics.

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I am sure most of the US is just a safe as Australia, apart from the 300 million guns in circulation and the statistical fact that you are about 10 000 times more likely to die of a gunshot wound

10,000 times "almost zero" is still almost zero.

Our hoplophobes like to stir up fear but will then say you must be paranoid to think you'll ever need a gun to defend yourself. They're right about the latter. Most of our cops never fire at anyone, and their job is to go looking for trouble. I'm almost certain that, just like almost every American, it will be a heart problem, cancer, a car wreck, or one of the things that really kills us in large numbers that takes me out.

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9 hours ago, dfw_sailor said:

But, aside from the obvious risks with random mass shootings, day to day living feels a heck of a lot safer in the US than the streets of Melbourne.

That "obvious risk" can be avoided by simply not being in the wrong home.

For example, the latest "mass shooting" (which really was not one by the definition used by the Gun Grabby Archive, but it's politically useful to spread fear by padding the numbers with "almost" mass shootings.)

It doesn't have its own thread because, like the vast majority of "mass shootings," it's not particularly convenient by itself in calling for gun bans. It's only convenient in the aggregate, which is why the details of the inconvenient ones are only chronicled by me.

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You joke now but if the USA stays on its current path your scenario is coming.

Watch "Freejack" for a glimpse.

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10 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

That "obvious risk" can be avoided by simply not being in the wrong home.

For example, the latest "mass shooting" (which really was not one by the definition used by the Gun Grabby Archive, but it's politically useful to spread fear by padding the numbers with "almost" mass shootings.)

It doesn't have its own thread because, like the vast majority of "mass shootings," it's not particularly convenient by itself in calling for gun bans. It's only convenient in the aggregate, which is why the details of the inconvenient ones are only chronicled by me.

Tom, I'm a centrist on this so tend I hope to be realistic. There is a lot of shootings where the picking the wrong home was obvious / stupid, i.e. hanging out with the wrong crowd. There are other home shootings such as Plano / Dallas just over a year ago, where the ex of a woman decide to gate crash a cookout and kill 8 at the party. I don't believe they knew they had made a bad choice before they were making a bad choice in attending that party. 

 

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16 hours ago, LB 15 said:

It must be a while since you have been in Fortitude Valley! Over the past 30 years it has transformed from a sleazy red light district to a night club and party zone, full of great bars, pubs and restaurants. These days it is packed at night with young people having fun and the police presence is everywhere. Apart from the odd drunken incident, you would be hard pressed to find a safer part of Brisbane on a Friday or Saturday night. I spend a lot more time out at night in Sydney and Melbourne than I do at home here in Brisvegas, but I never feel uncomfortable walking in any of them at night. I am sure most of the US is just a safe as Australia, apart from the 300 million guns in circulation and the statistical fact that you are about 10 000 times more likely to die of a gunshot wound. Mate you are obviously spoiling for an argument but to be honest, you will have to find a better topic. You see most US posters on here accuse me of being a 'libtard', while the Aussie posters think I am a raving Trump supporter because I am a member of the Liberal party. I am glad you like the US. I think it is a wonderful country and I find most Americans to be great company - regardless of their politics.

LB,

yes it has been about that long since I had been around Fortitude Valley. It was half said said as a joke. 

I am not spoiling for an argument, but I will pick a bone with you. You consistently sprout numbers you pick out of your ass as 'facts'.

2016: Australia gun related deaths 1.04 per 100k;  0.18 (homicide) .8 (accidental)

2016: USA gun related deaths 11.96 per 100k; 6.62 (homicide) 7.1 (accidental)

So on these figures you are 37 times more likely to be murdered by gun in the US than in Australia.

Homicide:

2013:  Australia 2013 1.0 per 100k

2013: USA 4.9 per 100k

However these figures show overall (guns or not) a person has 5 times more chance of being murdered in the US than in Australia. 

Then again, estimates are that gang /drug activity is responsible for between 50% and 75% of gun homicides in the US.  Lets just assume 50% to the sake of discussion. 

So if we ignore gang stuff it brings it down to a being 19 times more likely of homicide by gun. It is difficult to quickly determine what the overall US homicide rate is without guns.

Getting back to my point: If you stop picking numbers out of your ass, I would have more respect for you arguments, even though you are a centrist. I expect the left (and right) to make stupid comments.

And to sort of make peace, there are wonderful things / ok things / shit things in both countries.  

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3 minutes ago, dfw_sailor said:

However these figures show overall (guns or not) a person has 5 times more chance of being murdered in the US than in Australia. 

Yeah, and that's fucking significant. Five times the murder rate is more than enough justification in lives for our laws. 

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35 minutes ago, dfw_sailor said:

LB,

yes it has been about that long since I had been around Fortitude Valley. It was half said said as a joke. 

I am not spoiling for an argument, but I will pick a bone with you. You consistently sprout numbers you pick out of your ass as 'facts'.

2016: Australia gun related deaths 1.04 per 100k;  0.18 (homicide) .8 (accidental)

2016: USA gun related deaths 11.96 per 100k; 6.62 (homicide) 7.1 (accidental)

So on these figures you are 37 times more likely to be murdered by gun in the US than in Australia.

Homicide:

2013:  Australia 2013 1.0 per 100k

2013: USA 4.9 per 100k

However these figures show overall (guns or not) a person has 5 times more chance of being murdered in the US than in Australia. 

Then again, estimates are that gang /drug activity is responsible for between 50% and 75% of gun homicides in the US.  Lets just assume 50% to the sake of discussion. 

So if we ignore gang stuff it brings it down to a being 19 times more likely of homicide by gun. It is difficult to quickly determine what the overall US homicide rate is without guns.

Getting back to my point: If you stop picking numbers out of your ass, I would have more respect for you arguments, even though you are a centrist. I expect the left (and right) to make stupid comments.

And to sort of make peace, there are wonderful things / ok things / shit things in both countries.  

Hey why stop at leaving gangs 'stuff' out? (although I am not sure why you would do this given all the links to Australian gang violence you posted) Why not leave out all gun deaths from criminal activity of any kind, all accidental gun deaths and all gun suicides as well? If you all so leave out all police shootings, gun massacres and hunting accidents, then fuck me - I am moving to the US! The chances of being shot are nil! So is that why you moved there, you do come across as a NRA kind of guy. Was Australia's gun grabbing laws impacting on your rights to tool ownership? I guess 37 times the chance of being shot is not something to worry about. By that logic you should take up smoking.

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1 hour ago, dfw_sailor said:

Tom, I'm a centrist on this so tend I hope to be realistic. There is a lot of shootings where the picking the wrong home was obvious / stupid, i.e. hanging out with the wrong crowd. There are other home shootings such as Plano / Dallas just over a year ago, where the ex of a woman decide to gate crash a cookout and kill 8 at the party. I don't believe they knew they had made a bad choice before they were making a bad choice in attending that party. 

 

The issue isn't really the number of guns - we have more than enough here as well to kill the entire population. The US problem is the mindset that comes from the 2A. This 'right' gives many people the justification to not just own tools, but puts that swagger in their step when they are carrying and their readiness to produce them when scared by shadows. But arguing with US gun nuts about the subject is pointless (however much fun it is :) ). The gun problem in the US can never be fixed.

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27 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I don’t own any guns.... however that stereotype is not close to anything I’ve ever witnessed 

I have - even here.

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20 hours ago, VOA said:

The community I live in is gated. It’s also electrified with razor wire top & tail. Then there’s the full time armed guards with full auto 9mm & pump action shotguns.  

Havent had an incident since the electric fence was completed about 9 months ago

Sounds like your only risk is getting beat up during outside time in the yard or getting ass fucked in the community shower. 

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30 minutes ago, VOA said:

Well, aren't you quite the charming young fellow.

Noice.

I can't help it when it's a pitch that slow right over the plate.

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12 hours ago, dfw_sailor said:

Tom, I'm a centrist on this so tend I hope to be realistic. There is a lot of shootings where the picking the wrong home was obvious / stupid, i.e. hanging out with the wrong crowd. There are other home shootings such as Plano / Dallas just over a year ago, where the ex of a woman decide to gate crash a cookout and kill 8 at the party. I don't believe they knew they had made a bad choice before they were making a bad choice in attending that party. 

 

Yes, but as a person who actually examines the "obvious risks of mass shootings"  you mentioned, and not just the convenient ones, they look like almost all can be avoided by not being drunk at bars late at night and not associating with assholes.

As noted, some of the "documented" ones you will read about the next time there's a convenient shooting and the grabbers have a party Hoping and Praying for more TeamD gun bans are not even real. That's why they are only discussed in the aggregate, not individually.

The individual events that get their own threads are vanishingly rare. The "obvious risk" if you look at it is so darn close to zero that if you're going to be concerned at all, you should avoid all stairs, cars, aspirins, and all the other more risky things in your life.

They get lots of attention and it scares people into thinking there are obvious risks and we must DO SOMETHING. There aren't and we shouldn't.

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5 hours ago, VOA said:

Ok. I get it now. I thought you were just being an a hole

Apparently, you don't.  I was just being an asshole.

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15 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The issue isn't really the number of guns - we have more than enough here as well to kill the entire population. The US problem is the mindset that comes from the 2A. This 'right' gives many people the justification to not just own tools, but puts that swagger in their step when they are carrying and their readiness to produce them when scared by shadows. But arguing with US gun nuts about the subject is pointless (however much fun it is :) ). The gun problem in the US can never be fixed.

LB - we don't have a "gun problem" - we have a violence problem.   I'll admit that the ready availability of firearms is an exacerbating factor, but, the problem at its root is people who've decided that their feelings are more important than someone else's.  

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16 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
15 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The issue isn't really the number of guns - we have more than enough here as well to kill the entire population. The US problem is the mindset that comes from the 2A. This 'right' gives many people the justification to not just own tools, but puts that swagger in their step when they are carrying and their readiness to produce them when scared by shadows. But arguing with US gun nuts about the subject is pointless (however much fun it is :) ). The gun problem in the US can never be fixed.

LB - we don't have a "gun problem" - we have a violence problem.   I'll admit that the ready availability of firearms is an exacerbating factor, but, the problem at its root is people who've decided that their feelings are more important than someone else's life.  

FIFY

I think you two are basically saying almost the same thing, just approaching it from different directions

-DSK

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

FIFY

I think you two are basically saying almost the same thing, just approaching it from different directions

-DSK

And that is  the crux of the argument - what's the best fix? 

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

LB - we don't have a "gun problem" - we have a violence problem.   I'll admit that the ready availability of firearms is an exacerbating factor, but, the problem at its root is people who've decided that their feelings are more important than someone else's life.  

FIFY

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

And that is  the crux of the argument - what's the best fix? 

There is no argument - it's been pretty well fixed in most all civilized nations by greatly reducing the number of guns.

You gun nuts simply don't want to see it happen so you throw up clouds of bullshit about it..

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8 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

There is no argument - it's been pretty well fixed in most all civilized nations by greatly reducing the number of guns.

You gun nuts simply don't want to see it happen so you throw up clouds of bullshit about it..

No - us "gun nuts" realize that there's a tremendously greater benefit beyond simply reducing violence in addressing the causal problems that result in the instances of violence.   Us "gun nuts" also feel that if we're going to infringe on one enumerated right in the interest of reducing the magnitude of damage inflicted in instances of violence, that additional infringements would also provide benefit, and that those should be considered as well.  Those of you who think of nothing beyond prohibition aren't really interested in those fixes, because they might actually impact something YOU like. 

 

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Quote

The rate of gun deaths in the U.S. has hit its highest level in more than 20 years, with almost 40,000 people killed in shootings in 2017, according to new government figures. The numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show 39,773 people in the U.S. lost their lives after being shot or shooting themselves in 2017. That represents a total of 12 deaths per 100,000 people—up from 10.1 in 2010 and the highest rate since 1996. According to a recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association, that compares with rates of 0.2 gun deaths per 100,000 people in Japan, 0.3 in the U.K., 0.9 in Germany, and 2.1 in Canada.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gun-deaths-in-the-us-hit-highest-level-in-over-20-years

Nothing to see here, carry on.

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29 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - us "gun nuts" realize that there's a tremendously greater benefit beyond simply reducing violence in addressing the causal problems that result in the instances of violence.   Us "gun nuts" also feel that if we're going to infringe on one enumerated right in the interest of reducing the magnitude of damage inflicted in instances of violence, that additional infringements would also provide benefit, and that those should be considered as well.  Those of you who think of nothing beyond prohibition aren't really interested in those fixes, because they might actually impact something YOU like. 

 

Indeed. Fucking stupid really. The government should also stop all this nonsense about searching people at airports and locking the door to airplane  cockpits and work on convincing fundamentalist Islamic terrorists that Iraq was just a big misunderstanding. Now can I get your unicorn a bowl of water?

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - us "gun nuts" realize that there's a tremendously greater benefit beyond simply reducing violence in addressing the causal problems that result in the instances of violence.   Us "gun nuts" also feel that if we're going to infringe on one enumerated right in the interest of reducing the magnitude of damage inflicted in instances of violence, that additional infringements would also provide benefit, and that those should be considered as well.  Those of you who think of nothing beyond prohibition aren't really interested in those fixes, because they might actually impact something YOU like.

Yeah, like attending an outdoor concert with no rapid fire weaponry being used on us.

Like having our children attend elementary school with no rapid fire weaponry being used on them.

Like I said - clouds of bullshit.

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7 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

we don't have a "gun problem" - we have a violence problem.   I'll admit that the ready availability of firearms is an exacerbating factor, but, the problem at its root is people who've decided that their feelings are more important than someone else's.  

Both of our countries do. When it comes to assault and other crimes our two countries are generally on par, and have been for some time. Same with our drug crime, racial animus, gangs, etc. The difference is that our violence is less lethal. The reason it's less lethal is because those prone to violence aren't walking around with ranged lethal weaponry here. They are over there. 

When it comes to assaults, you have a violence problem. When it comes to assaults turning into homicides and mass shootings, you have a gun problem. Feel free to get started on weaning violence out of humanity, I applaud you for your efforts and hope you succeed. Until then though, you most certainly do have a gun problem. 

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - us "gun nuts" realize that there's a tremendously greater benefit beyond simply reducing violence in addressing the causal problems that result in the instances of violence.   Us "gun nuts" also feel that if we're going to infringe on one enumerated right in the interest of reducing the magnitude of damage inflicted in instances of violence, that additional infringements would also provide benefit, and that those should be considered as well.  Those of you who think of nothing beyond prohibition aren't really interested in those fixes, because they might actually impact something YOU like.   

What complete twaddle. I've openly accepted the challenge you and Jeff have been laying down about putting other infringements on the table for consideration and you both disappear into the bushes whenever you can't change the fucking topic. 

I am in 100% agreement - we should put ALL the legal rights on the table, we should consider the moral importance of each in a modern democratic society, and we should decide which should be done away with based on that ranking. And guess what, taking all of that into account, restricting & regulating your guns still head the top of that list.

You're also right, those that think of "nothing but prohibition", aren't really interested in fixes. I'm happy to consider other solutions and I hope to see them tested and proven in the way firearms restriction has been. Contrariwise and in response to your less-than-thought-out proclamation about what they want, those that will not consider prohibition are proving they're not really interested in a fix to the issues either. By your own logic they are more interested in their toys than in the lives of others. 

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55 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Both of our countries do. When it comes to assault and other crimes our two countries are generally on par, and have been for some time.

Yes but those statistics should be viewed with the understanding that thanks to snowflakes like Bent, the definition of what constitutes an 'Assault' in Australia now range from anally rapping someone with a cow prod, to accidentally brushing you arm against them. Repeated nasty looks in the work place is now a form of 'Assault'.

Hell, calling someone, say, a smug, tedious, tiresome, dick smoking, know-all, fucktard on an internet forum is probably a form of 'Assault'.

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9 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - us "gun nuts" realize that there's a tremendously greater benefit beyond simply reducing violence in addressing the causal problems that result in the instances of violence.   Us "gun nuts" also feel that if we're going to infringe on one enumerated right in the interest of reducing the magnitude of damage inflicted in instances of violence, that additional infringements would also provide benefit, and that those should be considered as well.  Those of you who think of nothing beyond prohibition aren't really interested in those fixes, because they might actually impact something YOU like. 

 

oh, brother..

less gunz > more gunz   *fart*

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5 hours ago, Not guilty said:

Poor little puss puss, I have my guns and you can't do anything about it.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsmCFJWvILhQxQ2Gl_CHW

Just when you're relaxing in your bunker, fondling your precious, you think you're safe....

And then.....

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUgiY0GLMPTejGn9LnpAJ

-DSK

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Just now, SailBlueH2O said:
57 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Just when you're relaxing in your bunker, fondling your precious, you think you're safe....

And then.....

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUgiY0GLMPTejGn9LnpAJ

-DSK

mortars are dime a dozen all over the world and easy to you...I've wondered why terrorist have not used this most logical weapon against western devils

Requires good (very good) teamwork and proficiency in a number of technical skills that they are not able to master, by the very nature of the mental disability which makes terrorism attractive to them.

-DSK

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19 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Indeed. Fucking stupid really. The government should also stop all this nonsense about searching people at airports and locking the door to airplane  cockpits and work on convincing fundamentalist Islamic terrorists that Iraq was just a big misunderstanding. Now can I get your unicorn a bowl of water?

You are intentionally conflating my position - I'm saying that if we are infringing on the second, that there's benefit as well to infringing on the 4th and 5th - so if we've decided that violence reduction warrants an infringement, let's get 'er done and infringe away, we as a society have demonstrated that we're not interested enough in personal responsibility to properly exercise our enjoyment of the freedoms that our constitution has provided us. 

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15 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

What complete twaddle. I've openly accepted the challenge you and Jeff have been laying down about putting other infringements on the table for consideration and you both disappear into the bushes whenever you can't change the fucking topic. 

I am in 100% agreement - we should put ALL the legal rights on the table, we should consider the moral importance of each in a modern democratic society, and we should decide which should be done away with based on that ranking. And guess what, taking all of that into account, restricting & regulating your guns still head the top of that list.

You're also right, those that think of "nothing but prohibition", aren't really interested in fixes. I'm happy to consider other solutions and I hope to see them tested and proven in the way firearms restriction has been. Contrariwise and in response to your less-than-thought-out proclamation about what they want, those that will not consider prohibition are proving they're not really interested in a fix to the issues either. By your own logic they are more interested in their toys than in the lives of others. 

Is it twaddle - or are you in 100% agreement? 

I haven't ever said that I'm against "reasonable" constraints.  I've even offered up several that I think would be effective, along with a procedural framework that would provide for a check/balance against over-zealous enforcement.   You are one of the few we've had this conversation with who have been OK w/considering infringements beyond firearms prohibitions, and THAT my friend, is usually where the conversation breaks down. 

I still contend that if we've decided to adopt a "padding the corners" approach?  Then the quest for personal responsibility has been lost, and we're at a point in which the nanny-state has been handed the task of "keeping us all safe".    There's a balance - but the prohibitionists have said and continue to say that they're not interested in a balance, they're interested in complete eradication of personal ownership of firearms, that any infringement is nothing but a first step towards more.   Given the general tendency of governmental enforcement agencies to stretch precedent to apply to situations beyond the original intent - a prohibitionist approach should be considered skeptically by anyone who desires to retain the freedoms we enjoy.  Guns kill people, get rid of guns.  Motorcycles kill people, get rid of motorcycles.  Using "interstate commerce" to control & prosecute things that have nothing to do with commerce? 

You can decry the concern as a baseless slippery-slope argument, but if you consider it objectively, you'll have no choice but to agree with my observation.  

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6 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I'd like to think so...but for non precise plunking into a packed football stadium they'd serve the purpose beyond their wildest dreams....the settings could be worked out from google earth and taken to that spot for use

Scary scenario.... but if you're a whacko determined to win glory for your invisible friend, it's easier and quicker to whip up an explosive vest and blow yourself up in the crowd....... or in the US, buy an AK/AR and start shooting people until the SWAT team takes you out.

Using indirect weapons takes planning, forethought, precision work on finicky details which are not related to the immediate goal..... it's just not an instant gratification kind of thing.

-DSK

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13 hours ago, Not guilty said:

Poor little puss puss, I have my guns and you can't do anything about it.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsmCFJWvILhQxQ2Gl_CHW

You have your guns, but no 'Puss puss' and you can't do anything about that either.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:
15 hours ago, Not guilty said:

Poor little puss puss, I have my guns and you can't do anything about it.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsmCFJWvILhQxQ2Gl_CHW

You have your guns, but no 'Puss puss' and you can't do anything about that either.

Looks like he's setting an ambush for Santa.

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13 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Is it twaddle - or are you in 100% agreement? 

What you said about those you oppose is twaddle because, as one of those that oppose your "don't touch the guns" approach, I agree with what you said about putting all the rights on the table and determining which is more important and worth infringing on to stop four times the homicide rate and magnitudes more mass murder in your nation than ours. What you said about actually wanting to do that is twaddle because when one of us agrees with you and says they're willing to engage in that debate you claim to want - you run for the hills and/or revert to base "you're all the same as the worst person I disagree with" line of argument you decry in others.

 

13 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I haven't ever said that I'm against "reasonable" constraints.  I've even offered up several that I think would be effective, along with a procedural framework that would provide for a check/balance against over-zealous enforcement.   You are one of the few we've had this conversation with who have been OK w/considering infringements beyond firearms prohibitions, and THAT my friend, is usually where the conversation breaks down. 

It breaks down because you don't want to actually want what you said you do. You want to put the infringements of other rights BEFORE infringement on the second. Whenever challenged to back-up your claim that ALL rights should be on the table and ALL of them judged in regards to their importance for a modern, democratic, primarily law-abiding society such as we both have - you flee from that discussion - usually into another shallow talking point (such as the motor-cycles one below).

You don't want to actually argue whether access to one specific type of tool is more important than free speech, or privacy, or due process, etc because then you have to say that you consider guns more important than those things. Because if guns are not more important, then why rank access to them higher than those fundamental concepts of a functional democracy? You want the talking point without actually having to deal with it's foundation.

 

13 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I still contend that if we've decided to adopt a "padding the corners" approach?  Then the quest for personal responsibility has been lost, and we're at a point in which the nanny-state has been handed the task of "keeping us all safe".    There's a balance - but the prohibitionists have said and continue to say that they're not interested in a balance, they're interested in complete eradication of personal ownership of firearms, that any infringement is nothing but a first step towards more.   Given the general tendency of governmental enforcement agencies to stretch precedent to apply to situations beyond the original intent - a prohibitionist approach should be considered skeptically by anyone who desires to retain the freedoms we enjoy.  Guns kill people, get rid of guns. 

You do realise you are generations too late about that right? Speed limits, seat belts, nuclear material restrictions, regulation on dangerous chemicals, licensing for pilots, etc, etc. Like it or not, humanity is not yet at a point where we can trust enough of us to let everyone have 

 

13 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Motorcycles kill people, get rid of motorcycles.  Using "interstate commerce" to control & prosecute things that have nothing to do with commerce? 

Motorcycles tend to kill their riders - their choice, their risk, and still considered important enough to license and regulate. Motorcycles are not designed to wound or kill and are deliberately made as safe for riders and others as possible whilst maintaining their core function. The core function of the tools you seek to put above all your other rights are designed to wound and/or kill. Their very function is to create a risk to other beings, not the wielder. Also, frankly speaking, kind of hard to conceal carry a motorcycle into school and use it to kill other kids. That apples to oranges BS was old decades ago. It's not getting any fresher.

The interstate commerce thing is a legal distraction irrelevant to my position. I've stated, multiple times, that you have the legal right to firearms. I'm not making a legal argument. I don't because, as I have stated before, the legality is that you have the right to firearms and the premise of this conversation was putting all rights on the table for consideration. I am discussing the morality of your position and the correct course of action to take about changing the laws (and which ones) morally speaking. If you absolutely must angage on that topic, I'm sure you can prod Tom to disagree with you on it in some way.

 

13 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You can decry the concern as a baseless slippery-slope argument, but if you consider it objectively, you'll have no choice but to agree with my observation.  

It is baseless. Both because the slippery slope argument fails to reflect reality (Canada, Australia, etc haven't fallen into a dystopia of government dictatorship) and because it's making invalid analogies. Motorcycles and vehicles in general are not designed to harm/kill others. Where possible, design changes are made to make them less lethal. The vast majority of deaths caused by those are accidental. The number of murders using them are barely a statistical error. Not so firearms. Apples to oranges, slippery slope, horse has bolted the barn, etc.

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