The Weatherman

Clubswan 125

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Has someone any news on the upcoming JK supermaxi from Nautor? It’s a long time I hear almost nothing about...

Any hypothesis on the possible name/owner? From the media seems to be someone with a long experience.

Actually I have just two possible candidates in my mind:

Highland fling XVI

Leopard IV (?!?)

1BD24A9C-97F3-49EA-AB32-6C698BA8A05A.thumb.jpeg.74d79309d783b4da71d6d1124330be54.jpeg

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Irvine Laidlaw cancelled the Rolex Swan Cup this year with the Swan 115 and put the boat on the market, apparently he was fed up of the cost of trying to race a cruiser racer super yacht. With his recently launched Botin 56 and also his Spirit 52 Oui Fling i’d Be surprised if this was his. 

Is Mike Slade rich enough?

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4 minutes ago, JL92S said:

Irvine Laidlaw cancelled the Rolex Swan Cup this year with the Swan 115 and put the boat on the market, apparently he was fed up of the cost of trying to race a cruiser racer super yacht. With his recently launched Botin 56 and also his Spirit 52 Oui Fling i’d Be surprised if this was his. 

Is Mike Slade rich enough?

I don’t think Mike Slade is up for playing in that league. 

Heard a rumour there were some structural issues as well with one of the big Swans. :ph34r:

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Just now, mad said:

I don’t think Mike Slade is up for playing in that league. 

Heard a rumour there were some structural issues as well with one of the big Swans. :ph34r:

Yeah the new 78 has delamination in various areas in its first regatta. Unfortunately they got t boned in the same event, fortunately they can fix it all at the same time :D 

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2 minutes ago, JL92S said:

Yeah the new 78 has delamination in various areas in its first regatta. Unfortunately they got t boned in the same event, fortunately they can fix it all at the same time :D 

It was bigger than the 78.

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The 115s All has issues and I believe the 125 has had several problems. They have brought in a number of outside consultants to try and fix the problems and get all back on track. I know Richard Gillies was involved in fixing the 115s and suspect he is up north getting cold with the team right now. If anyone can fix it he can.

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4 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

The 115s All has issues and I believe the 125 has had several problems. They have brought in a number of outside consultants to try and fix the problems and get all back on track. I know Richard Gillies was involved in fixing the 115s and suspect he is up north getting cold with the team right now. If anyone can fix it he can.

Thanks for the confirmation.

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7 hours ago, Chimp too said:

The 115s All has issues and I believe the 125 has had several problems. They have brought in a number of outside consultants to try and fix the problems and get all back on track. I know Richard Gillies was involved in fixing the 115s and suspect he is up north getting cold with the team right now. If anyone can fix it he can.

Make sense... the 125 launch was originally planned for spring 2019, while now on some build list seem to be postponed to 2020.

http://www.superyachtintelligence.com/superyachts/?superyachts=1&inline=&CURRENTNAME=&TYPE=SY&LOAM=&STATUS=&DELIVERYDATE=2019%2C2022&BUILDER=NAUTOR&COUNTRYOFBUILD=FINLAND#results

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16 hours ago, Parma said:

I suspect that there is a ton of crew hiding below?

Swan 115 Video

actually probably not, looked like 4 crew. when I was working sailing yachts of similar size crews of 4-5 were the usual for cruising. captain, mate/engineer, one or 2 deck/stews and a chef. with hydrailic winches and furlers for everything and top down furler on the asym kite it's actually pretty doable. 

now of course if you were going racing you hire on a herd of pros 

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At least something is moving...

 

I’m not 100% convinced about one design approach on supermaxi world. I imagine that the owner would like to have something unique... Wally (benchmark for the category) with 100 foot class allow different designs and a complete boat customization.

But let’s see the first one in navigation before any judgement... hopefully should be on the water in spring timeframe 

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17 hours ago, The Weatherman said:

At least something is moving...

 

I’m not 100% convinced about one design approach on supermaxi world. I imagine that the owner would like to have something unique... Wally (benchmark for the category) with 100 foot class allow different designs and a complete boat customization.

But let’s see the first one in navigation before any judgement... hopefully should be on the water in spring timeframe 

From what i’ve heard this is very much a one off boat, of course swan will have the moulds and the North Group have conducted a ton of design on the whole rig and sail package so if anyone wanted one then they could go to Nautor Swan but it will be semi production at best I guess

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I’ve heard Irvine Laidlaws name being thrown around but that’s nothing more than rumour

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48 minutes ago, JL92S said:

I’ve heard Irvine Laidlaws name being thrown around but that’s nothing more than rumour

Hasn’t he already got a Swan 115?

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9 hours ago, mad said:

Hasn’t he already got a Swan 115?

It’s been on the market since just before the maxi worlds and he stopped the program 

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Last superyacht regatta was not that lucky for Mr Laidlaws. Highland Fling XV hit a reef during the first day... and if I recall well before the crash they were behind Baltic 130 My Song. Good reason to get new Hardware!

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First yacht I have seen built on a male tool for years. I would have thought that for the money being spent they could at least splash out on a female tool, especially if they want to build more.

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3 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

First yacht I have seen built on a male tool for years. I would have thought that for the money being spent they could at least splash out on a female tool, especially if they want to build more.

Does seem a strange choice, not sure I understand the thinking behind that. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 11:08 PM, JL92S said:

I’ve heard Irvine Laidlaws name being thrown around but that’s nothing more than rumour

Pretty sure that was back when Swan was talking to about 25 potential owners and the owners of the 115's to refine the concept.

Laidlaw just got a new toy to play with (Botin 56) and perhaps not a great experience with the yard if rumours are correct (and the amount of boat builders seen around that 115 prior to hitting the reef)

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Which is the one in Palma having a load of work done?

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5 hours ago, mad said:

Which is the one in Palma having a load of work done?

I think the 115 is just waiting, I noticed the 82 had its rig unstepped the other day.

The 56 is due to arrive in carieb any day now, the 53 is ready to go in Cape Town and not sure if the 52 is at Berthon in Limington or back in Ipswich with Spirit?

*EDIT* the 115 had a few warrantee jobs done on both sides of the Atlantic previously 

Edited by lostmydetailsagain
Added info

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:51 AM, mad said:

Which is the one in Palma having a load of work done?

Each of the first 3 115s had serious work done to them after launch and apparently Shammana is again back on a ship to return to Europe for more work (they were in the Pacific). 

The only one not yet to require work is 115.04 Odin which was launched much later but she has her own disappointing tale of being built as an absolute weapon and now just lying pretty much deadship in Palma waiting to sell without ever being used. 

I spoke with a boat builder who just did a stint up in Finland on the 125 and he said Swan are after 20+ extra boat builders to complete the project....

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56 minutes ago, NZK said:

Each of the first 3 115s had serious work done to them after launch and apparently Shammana is again back on a ship to return to Europe for more work (they were in the Pacific). 

The only one not yet to require work is 115.04 Odin which was launched much later but she has her own disappointing tale of being built as an absolute weapon and now just lying pretty much deadship in Palma waiting to sell without ever being used. 

I spoke with a boat builder who just did a stint up in Finland on the 125 and he said Swan are after 20+ extra boat builders to complete the project....

They’ve been looking for guys for a good couple of months now, not many seem keen on Finland for the winter. 

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So what experienced Russian owners are out there. Boat international has an awesome spread on the interior. Looks pretty racey. 
 

“a knowledgeable and skilled racing owner”

 

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I think it's the same owner that has multiple Club Swan 50s, maybe Dmitry Rybolovlev based on a quick Google search....

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I heard it’s the Gazprom guy. It will be a miracle if this thing makes it to the water. They had some serious issues building the boat, so much so that the finish on the first hull was so bad they scrapped it and started again

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Will look good in Fastnet, Sydney Hobart, Caribbean 600
Is it exuberant expensive, made of carbon and a expert operated foiling system by only top professional sailors?
Juan Kouyoumdijan: Her cutting-edge foil system is only one indication of pioneering design principles of Nautor’s Swan and ClubSwan’s desire to be the ultimate leader in performance and quality in this lightweight, racing supermaxi yacht.
https://www.nautorswan.com/yachts/models/clubswan125/

757864205_swan1252.PNG.b9798cb64d18cb5066ed63916a6aa2ca.PNG1400643989_swan125.PNG.74add055e467a560525ccb0542bf581c.PNG
 

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On 12/11/2018 at 8:32 AM, Chimp too said:

The 115s All has issues and I believe the 125 has had several problems. They have brought in a number of outside consultants to try and fix the problems and get all back on track. I know Richard Gillies was involved in fixing the 115s and suspect he is up north getting cold with the team right now. If anyone can fix it he can.

Are the delaminations a result of overly optimistic structural engineering or out of wack tolerances between the hull mold and stringers/bulkheads? 

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4 hours ago, sailfly said:

Are the delaminations a result of overly optimistic structural engineering or out of wack tolerances between the hull mold and stringers/bulkheads? 

I don’t know.

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Not sure about the cause of the delams with the 115s but the 125 is still rolling on - from what I've heard there have been some major delays and some pretty big changes in the 'philosophy' of the project (is it a 125ft Maxi, is it a fast superyacht or is it somewhere in between...). I know Swan were desperate for boat-builders for most of last year, pretty much anyone who wasn't tied-up in an AC/Maxi 72 or TP campaign seemed to end up in Finland for at least a few weeks at some point. 

Pepe Ribas is involved and I think Bob Wylie is Project Manager (he was involved in a couple of the Wally Cento programs). I've not heard any word on a launch date yet...

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They built a hull which was rejected and scrapped, had to start again. The push to hire experienced labour and management was to not cock up the 2nd hull. Boats like this take a long time to build, a WallyCento or something like My Song (rip) takes a considerably longer time to build than a Maxi 72 for example or even what it took them to build Comanche. 

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Fingers crossed it can still keep the original ethos. I imagined it being a larger / development of the Leopard style, could be cruised if really wished for, but would also be able to stay ahead of weather systems on ocean crossings!

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21 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Too long for Hobart.

Nothing bigger than WOXI allowed.

This has always struck me as a dumb rule. It’s already an arms race. Why not let it really be an arms race. It’s not like someone is going to show up with a 250-footer.

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10 minutes ago, Alaris said:

This has always struck me as a dumb rule. It’s already an arms race. Why not let it really be an arms race. It’s not like someone is going to show up with a 250-footer.

They have to protect WOXI. 

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On 7/31/2020 at 8:04 AM, NZK said:t. 

Pepe Ribas is involved and I think Bob Wylie is Project Manager (he was involved in a couple of the Wally Cento programs). I've not heard any word on a launch date yet...

Richard Gillies and Killian Bushe have also been involved.

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2 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Give me a fucking break. That boat isn’t going to beat a carbon 100, let alone a true racing 120-140 footer. 

What true racing 120-140 footer currently races?

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1 minute ago, eastern motors said:

What true racing 120-140 footer currently races?

That is exactly my point. If the owners want to do an arms race over 100 feet, let them. It is an arbitrary cutoff. 

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Besides, within the decade they’re all going to be racing foilers and they’re not going to have to be 100+ to smash records. 

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It's about trying to make a "race" of it.

Personally I believe that the 100s are already too big/fast to race fairly against a 30 footer that takes 5 days and 2-3 weather systems to reach Hobart.  For the 100s and their like a good Hobart is just an overnighter where they pretty muck know what they will face all the way and only carry the gear to meet this.  The little slow guys have to carry supplies and gear for what they might meet over the next 5 days,  which at that time of year & on that stretch of water almost always will include the chance of at least one strong southerly front.

Back when the limit was 70' IOR rating and then later a similar IMS rating the boats finished in a closer pattern,  there were still advantages to particular sized boats in each race,  but it was less decisive.

And before you start throwing rocks about crying small boat sailors,  I have won line honours on a then Maxi (80')  and done about 5 races in Maxi Division boats.

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5 hours ago, Alaris said:

Give me a fucking break. That boat isn’t going to beat a carbon 100, let alone a true racing 120-140 footer. That rating is not that much faster than WOXI. Furthermore, so what? Let them race. 

The Swan 125s would likely not be able to satisfy SH safety requirements. And I doubt JuanK needs another boat broken in a major event. 

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On 8/2/2020 at 3:08 AM, Miffy said:

The Swan 125s would likely not be able to satisfy SH safety requirements.

Why not? This thing isn't designed to be a massive daysailer (is it)?

My Song did the RORC transat so no reason you can't build something big that can qualify for offshore races.

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9 hours ago, Snowden said:

Why not? This thing isn't designed to be a massive daysailer (is it)?

My Song did the RORC transat so no reason you can't build something big that can qualify for offshore races.

Except My Song wasn’t designed by Juan K

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10 hours ago, Snowden said:

Why not? This thing isn't designed to be a massive daysailer (is it)?

My Song did the RORC transat so no reason you can't build something big that can qualify for offshore races.

I don’t know how hard the Aussies will look for ask for data - listening to the Aussie skippers there seems to be pretty political bad faith nonsense going on. 
 

OTOH if I had this massive build that repeatedly has problems and is challenging for the builder to faithfully execute from a repeat offender of a designer - I’d have some second thoughts re sending her down to the Bass Strait. 

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There was a Rambler before that one too... so I dunno what's the ratio metric for success here.

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4 hours ago, Miffy said:

There was a Rambler before that one too... so I dunno what's the ratio metric for success here.

Rambler is a well run campaign and they have modded the boat quite a few times. They turbo'd the boat a while back and it smoked Scallywag 100 in the Fastnet race from memory. Rambler 88 would be faster than Wild Oats XI in some points of sail too. 

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Rambler 88 definitely sits in '+ve' column of Juan Ks catalogue - the boat has been a rocket from the start and seems to have adapted well to further optimisation.

The Club Swan classes (50 and 36) are a harder one to gauge because to some extent their final performance is limited by build and specification choices that probably came from Swan rather than the Juan K office to help minimise cost. They also suffer from being called 'dogs' when being compared to grand-prix classes such as the TPs which, if we're being fair, they just aren't even close to. 

My surprise/concern is that even after all the issues with the 115s, which suggested that Swan are not equipped in-house to manage more performance based large carbon hulls, that a)someone chose them for the 125 project and b)they chose to go ahead with it. If half the stories coming out of Finland are true then whoever is on the wrong side of the contract fine-print is gonna get shafted financially. Saying that I really hope it ends up being a success and it actually has a strong racing schedule - would be gutting to see it become another Odin....

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On 8/3/2020 at 12:24 PM, Chimp too said:

Except My Song wasn’t designed by Juan K

Nor built by Swan.

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On 8/3/2020 at 6:39 PM, terrafirma said:

Rambler is a well run campaign and they have modded the boat quite a few times. They turbo'd the boat a while back and it smoked Scallywag 100 in the Fastnet race from memory. Rambler 88 would be faster than Wild Oats XI in some points of sail too. 

R88 is a missile for sure and definitely has legs on anything but comanche at certain angles. Juan got that boat right for specific conditions. They should have just built the fucking thing 100ft so it had proper comps... the 12 ft shorter part is always a mention in the finish.

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On 8/21/2020 at 7:01 PM, bigrpowr said:

They should have just built the fucking thing 100ft so it had proper comps... the 12 ft shorter part is always a mention in the finish.

The designer has a great article somewhere that I've read where it talks about the specifications for the fastest planing monohulls. 

They came to the conclusion that 88ft was optimal due to... Draft limitations?

It's nice to be in a new era where size doesn't necessarily equal speed anymore.

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6 hours ago, Floating Duck said:

They came to the conclusion that 88ft was optimal due to... Draft limitations?

The argument fell over when Juan decided that the boat needed a deeper keel.

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Also just fit in the build shed at NEB.

She had to wait to go to Newport Shipyard to get her keel fitted, got a fresh outta the box new keel smell photo somewhere...

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Not gonna lie, the boat looks awesome, especially in the Perhonen red...maybe a show of potential owner there? Anyhow, a bunch of owners fighting it out on Club Swan50s is one thing, a fleet of these things, I just can't see there being enough interest, the programs that can afford these, as well as being patient enough to stick by the class whilst teething troubles are ironed out will want to go faster, spend more hours on the water, do different events special to them, not just Palma, Scarlino and Porto Cervo. etc. 3 teams maybe, don'tknow what the tipping point is, look at the Melges40, 5 boats?

Very happy to be proved wrong with this as they'd look killer ripping around in a fleet, as well as I'd be queueing up for a ride.

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I reckon Nautor have a big rolodex of suitably wealthy potential owners they can ring round, and don't just punt concepts out and see if anyone hits them on it.

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I agree with @TANGO QUEBEC - I'm not sure whether the managed Club Swan approach will transfer to an 80 footer. The interest I've heard of has come from existing Maxi72 and Wally 80 owners who are fed-up with the 'arms race' approach of the two classes. Whilst i can see this being attractive (and easy to sell from Swan's POV) I think the realities may be quite different. It's also going to ask a LOT more from Club Swan in terms of the management and service provision - I think there are a lot of question marks hanging over that part of it too...

 

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15 minutes ago, NZK said:

It's also going to ask a LOT more from Club Swan in terms of the management and service provision - I think there are a lot of question marks hanging over that part of it too...

But a great business opportunity to create a subscription-type revenue stream as a nice counterpart to the lumpier nature of selling boats.

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