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Sun Fast 3300

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Electric backstays take a hit, as do trim tabs, so I'd imagine any system to do this would take a rating hit when IRC become aware of it, I'm pondering if a manual version would be possible for my mini, but then again my rudder toe angle is currently controlled by 2 ronstan cv joins and a tiller extension bar so my loads are not the same :lol:

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6 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Electric backstays take a hit, as do trim tabs, so I'd imagine any system to do this would take a rating hit when IRC become aware of it, I'm pondering if a manual version would be possible for my mini, but then again my rudder toe angle is currently controlled by 2 ronstan cv joins and a tiller extension bar so my loads are not the same :lol:

A few years ago Classe Mini stopped allowing the Series boats to adjust rudder toe while sailing, do not recall if the rule applies to the Protos. Adjusting the rudders to suit conditions is pretty easy and helps speed a lot 

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32 minutes ago, Miffy said:

All those Pogo 2 rudder failures?

I think the rule stemmed from some of the new boats at the time (the Nacira) had a built in system to adjust the toe quickly on the water while others did not. To level the field CM said no one can do it 

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1 hour ago, ctutmark said:

Adjusting the rudders to suit conditions is pretty easy and helps speed a lot 

Than can you share some more info, as this seems to be a bigger secret than how to build a nuclear bomb. Any guiding principles? How and when do you use it in practise? Is it worth modifying a boat? 

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3 hours ago, ctutmark said:

A few years ago Classe Mini stopped allowing the Series boats to adjust rudder toe while sailing, do not recall if the rule applies to the Protos. Adjusting the rudders to suit conditions is pretty easy and helps speed a lot 

Which rule? Can't find it (wouldn't have thought about it if I'd know it was against the rules) although I guess it counts as modifying the steering system (sort of) from how it came...

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2 hours ago, Geert said:

Than can you share some more info, as this seems to be a bigger secret than how to build a nuclear bomb. Any guiding principles? How and when do you use it in practise? Is it worth modifying a boat? 

 

Imagine the rudder being aligned when the boat is sitting flat at the dock. Now heel it over 15 degrees on a boat where the bow entry angle is not pointing where the boat is heading. The windward rudder is now partially in the water, but pointing the wrong way. All you're trying to do is make sure if it isn't steering the boat, it isn't dragging. Every boat is going to be different in diff conditions but don't be afraid to play with it. 

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4 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

Imagine the rudder being aligned when the boat is sitting flat at the dock. Now heel it over 15 degrees on a boat where the bow entry angle is not pointing where the boat is heading. The windward rudder is now partially in the water, but pointing the wrong way. All you're trying to do is make sure if it isn't steering the boat, it isn't dragging. Every boat is going to be different in diff conditions but don't be afraid to play with it. 

Watching how the water flows off the windward rudder so the water from both sides is even, not one side higher than the other is the typical method. Changes with boatspeed and heel angle. 

On the old SF3200 site (sunfast.fr) there used to be a lot of info about this but it seems to be gone. 

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32 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Which rule? Can't find it (wouldn't have thought about it if I'd know it was against the rules) although I guess it counts as modifying the steering system (sort of) from how it came...

Cannot find it in either the FR or UK texts so maybe it has been dropped. On the docks in 2011 before the MT the class was requiring the lock nuts on the series boats to be welded once set. 

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19 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Imagine the rudder being aligned when the boat is sitting flat at the dock. Now heel it over 15 degrees on a boat where the bow entry angle is not pointing where the boat is heading. The windward rudder is now partially in the water, but pointing the wrong way. All you're trying to do is make sure if it isn't steering the boat, it isn't dragging. Every boat is going to be different in diff conditions but don't be afraid to play with it. 

That's a nice explanation, thanks. I reduced the toe in on my Pogo 850 because the rudders where dragging a lot when running in heavy wind, but it looks like I now need to check the impact of that change on courses where the boat is heeled . 

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19 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

Watching how the water flows off the windward rudder so the water from both sides is even, not one side higher than the other is the typical method. Changes with boatspeed and heel angle. 

On the old SF3200 site (sunfast.fr) there used to be a lot of info about this but it seems to be gone. 

I've been making changes based on the flow off the rudders, but I was chasing a perfect setting for all conditions. Looks like I need to reconcider that objective. 

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On 4/15/2019 at 9:53 AM, JL92S said:

Twin topmast backstays for a square top main and yes it has water ballast

Twin top runners?  Short handed?  What could go wrong?  (I sail a 40er d/l 96 SH with running tops and 3/4’s).  And then someone will say you really don’t need them all the time, and you’ll ask at what TW you do need them, and, there’ll be some hemming and hawing.....but then you start thinking you can stop the boom mid point during a jibe because that’ll support the mast, bring in the new runner, and let go the other runner, and it, of course jams, and then a wave knocks you to leeward, and the sail is LEANING against the jammed runner..... :)  

I’ve GOT to go back to nothing but a 3/4 rig and a bare headed mast......  the mast top asymmetrical really wasn’t faster than the 3/4......

Right as usual, Mr Tutmark, but I did lose a point or two upwind without the top runners.  Greed.......<_<

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20 hours ago, Geert said:

That's a nice explanation, thanks. I reduced the toe in on my Pogo 850 because the rudders where dragging a lot when running in heavy wind, but it looks like I now need to check the impact of that change on courses where the boat is heeled . 

Aren’t the rudders on the 850 stern hung so you might just pull the windward rudder up going upwind, and then use both going downwind with geometry set up for that?

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17 minutes ago, Amati said:

Aren’t the rudders on the 850 stern hung. 

Nope. Although upwind the windward rudder is out of the water for the most part because of the extreme width of the stern. Except in light wind. 

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4 hours ago, Geert said:

Nope. Although upwind the windward rudder is out of the water for the most part because of the extreme width of the stern. Except in light wind. 

So they don’t rotate up?

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8 hours ago, Amati said:

So they don’t rotate up?

No, as they're not stern hung. Only the small (6,5m) Mini Transat Pogo's have stern hung rudders. Don't think any of  Pogo's models has on the water adjustable rudder toe.

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3 hours ago, Geert said:

No, as they're not stern hung. Only the small (6,5m) Mini Transat Pogo's have stern hung rudders. Don't think any of  Pogo's models has on the water adjustable rudder toe.

Sorry- this Finot/Conq (pogo 2?) confused me

 

 

CDD59FFD-3D89-4C1A-B999-418FA2121562.jpeg

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I take it this is the model you are talking about?

 

16F89D71-1597-41B7-8C1E-445A25E3761F.jpeg

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The Pogo, Pogo 2 and Pogo 3 are all Mini 650s, they all have transom hung rudders because the rudders are excluded from the 6.5m length in the box rule (and two less holes in a small boat designed to go across the Atlantic :lol:)

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2 hours ago, Geert said:

That's the Pogo 2 again. This is the (my) 8.50: 

2025661549_Tibosmall.jpg.eae7c5ed59764d3b9747c118bdf2f6bf.jpg

Nice- 

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A picture of the system on display at the Southampton boatshow, it all looked beautifully made

2F3BC7CE-E22F-48B3-BE61-3AE24518B8C0.jpeg

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On 9/20/2019 at 5:25 PM, Geert said:

No, as they're not stern hung. Only the small (6,5m) Mini Transat Pogo's have stern hung rudders. Don't think any of  Pogo's models has on the water adjustable rudder toe.

G'day Geert,

Unsure about the whole range, but the 12.50 is adjustable on the water. You have three SS big turnbuckles in the lazarette, one each side for individual toe in, and a central one that adjusts both. I keep a little black book for any changes I make, but I haven't a decent enough sample reference to automatically know to tune to y position.

There is a noticeable change to the cavitation noises when you do, so you can 'tune by ear' when you're screaming down waves with your hair on fire, but the low wind mode is a bit more difficult to nail down.

Agree with the no-one-magical-setting, you can't do it on a car and boats are no different. 

Cheers,

SB

 

 

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On 11/24/2019 at 9:22 PM, shaggybaxter said:

Unsure about the whole range, but the 12.50 is adjustable on the water. You have three SS big turnbuckles in the lazarette, one each side for individual toe in, and a central one that adjusts both. I keep a little black book for any changes I make, but I haven't a decent enough sample reference to automatically know to tune to y position.

There is a noticeable change to the cavitation noises when you do, so you can 'tune by ear' when you're screaming down waves with your hair on fire, but the low wind mode is a bit more difficult to nail down

Thanks for the input. On my 850 the whole rudder system is easily accessible via the cockpit locker, but it's impossible to change settings on the water. It's feasible to change that if it's worth it. However, it might interfere with the auto pilots calibration. 

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Merfyn Owen of Owen Clarke Design is a bit of 'Whisperer' for twin rudder setups..... angle of shafts to water ,  balance of blades    and the toe in......

he looks at the minimal need for adjustment on the water back in the design stage . ..but you acknowledge when you need to rectify when it is wrong

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I am trying to get a group together to share a Sun Fast 3300 for racing and cruising in northern Europe, Med, Caribbean, and US east coast.  Can anyone recommend where to look for participants -- websites, forums, publications, etc.?  At this point, we have dealer specs/pricing for a SF3300 with B&G (H5000) electronics, carbon mast, water ballast, and racing and cruising sails, for delivery near Jeanneau’s factory in Poland where SF3300s will be built.  Ideally, delivery/commissioning/maiden voyage would take place in early summer 2020 in the Baltic, with the boat bought free of value added tax by non-residents of the European customs union.  At this point, we have interest in buying up to one-third of the boat.

 

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On 3/26/2019 at 11:46 AM, Raz'r said:

Clearly, absent rating rules, it wouldn't look the way it does. So all those twists and bends slow it down, just not as much as the rule would think:

 

A closer look at the underwater sections of the hull show that we have kept significant rake in the hull, after all these calculations were completed, which for us was a real aligning of the stars. This has kept the water line fairly short, versus the overall hull length. When combined with the high hull volume, this has hit a sweet spot under many rating rules, and is beneficial to performance overall

I think that's a mistranslation, meaning rocker.

They claim that by having a higher prismatic they go faster than a more traditional shapesame wl, also making claims about tricking wave formation with concavities. There are non rating optimized shapes that are chasing some these same corners now. Time will tell.

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On 6/25/2019 at 10:36 AM, Miffy said:

It has the option of 200 liters of water ballast. Haven't seen the final RM figures but for a 3.5 ton boat w/ 1.4 ton keel at draft just under 2 meters, eyeballing the hull - it seems like it'll be a stiff boat. 

440 lbs

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7 hours ago, Bruno said:

440 lbs

Yes. 200 liters of fresh water weighs about 440 pounds. 

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Just put an order in for one.  Delivery early spring 2020.  Sailing area will be long Island sound. Will be doing everything.  Beer can racing, double handed, short and medium distance races.  Also some WL.  Bermuda 1-2. 

 

 

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On 11/29/2019 at 7:50 AM, robalex117 said:

Just put an order in for one.  Delivery early spring 2020.  Sailing area will be long Island sound. Will be doing everything.  Beer can racing, double handed, short and medium distance races.  Also some WL.  Bermuda 1-2. 

 

 

Which options?  Water ballast?

Seems like a great B1-2 boat. The Quest 30/33 has had a lot of success. 

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Like Roleur, I would be interested in knowing how you spec'd your boat, Robalex.  You will see the bare outline above (my Thursday, November 28, post) about how we are spec'ing our SF3300 (although we don't yet have enough participants to order the boat).  If you have time, I would appreciate an on-line or off-line discussion with you about your choices.  One area of our indecision is lithium ion batteries.  We anticipate cruising the boat a fair amount between races (from delivery in the Baltic to the Med, probably back up again, eventually across the Atlantic once or twice) so while quick charging (when cruising) and light weight (when racing) favour the Li/ion,  safety might still favour lead acid.  Another question is the main sail handling system.  We are spec'ing a carbon mast but have not yet heard what the mast builder (Axxon in Romania) could do to accommodate a storm trysail.  I was ruminating on a short second track feeding the main sail track. Any thoughts?

 

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18 minutes ago, C34 Happy said:

Like Roleur, I would be interested in knowing how you spec'd your boat, Robalex.  You will see the bare outline above (my Thursday, November 28, post) about how we are spec'ing our SF3300 (although we don't yet have enough participants to order the boat).  If you have time, I would appreciate an on-line or off-line discussion with you about your choices.  One area of our indecision is lithium ion batteries.  We anticipate cruising the boat a fair amount between races (from delivery in the Baltic to the Med, probably back up again, eventually across the Atlantic once or twice) so while quick charging (when cruising) and light weight (when racing) favour the Li/ion,  safety might still favour lead acid.  Another question is the main sail handling system.  We are spec'ing a carbon mast but have not yet heard what the mast builder (Axxon in Romania) could do to accommodate a storm trysail.  I was ruminating on a short second track feeding the main sail track. Any thoughts?

 

Carbon rig, water balast, sprit,  ray marine pilot ram, gori prop from factory.  Putting in my ownLi/ion  batteries the cost from the factory is double what it should be.  H5000 instruments.  Have not looked at fitting a  storm trysail yet.  

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Thx, Robalex.  We are ad idem on the carbon rig (mast and sprit but in our case an aluminum boom), water ballast,  B&G H5000 (except as noted), and Raymarine linear drive pilot ram.  We are having some indigestion on the price of the Li/ion, too, but haven’t the bravery for a DIY installation. Good luck on your install.  Some of our other stuff:  seawater foot pump, world nav lights, 12v fridge, lee cloths, Zeus3 9” MFD in cockpit, 2 H5000 pilot controllers (with rudder reference unit), H3000 speed sensor with flush mount fitting, 3 x 20/20 Mast displays, NAIS 5000 transceiver,  carbon VHMU (another pricey item), WR10 autopilot remote, DT800 Depth/Temperature,  modified hull transducers to flush fit,  Echomax ActiveXs dual band on pushpit, dual 110-220v shore power, Webasto heater (which we might re-spec to Planar), cunningham system,...  Regards.

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6 hours ago, robalex117 said:

Looks like we are going to have a little competition.  

Ken Read is getting into the class - https://t.e2ma.net/message/bkydog/vr14bdc

And an interesting comment from that...

"Developing a sail plan and shorthanded inventory with Jeanneau began with our North Sails team in France, and we are now taking it a step further with a larger sail plan on the boats imported to North America. The Sun Fast 3300 sail package is built to work in any handicap rule. It has been a fun project so far, but now comes the hard work on the water!”

Anyone in the know about how the sails are changing for NA?  I can imagine the J/99 having/needing the same treatment.  The boat I sailed was very, very stiff and in no way needed water ballast.  It needed either more sail or less keel or both.  

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54 minutes ago, Roleur said:

And an interesting comment from that...

"Developing a sail plan and shorthanded inventory with Jeanneau began with our North Sails team in France, and we are now taking it a step further with a larger sail plan on the boats imported to North America. The Sun Fast 3300 sail package is built to work in any handicap rule. It has been a fun project so far, but now comes the hard work on the water!”

Anyone in the know about how the sails are changing for NA?  I can imagine the J/99 having/needing the same treatment.  The boat I sailed was very, very stiff and in no way needed water ballast.  It needed either more sail or less keel or both.  

Larger sail plan is the same rig but since in NA the wind is usually lighter the sails will be slightly bigger.  I guess if a boat is going to San Francisco they won't go with bigger sails but in the North East and FL there are generally lighter winds then what the European boats generally sail in.  I think between the main and jib 2 sq/m might be added.  

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, robalex117 said:

Larger sail plan is the same rig but since in NA the wind is usually lighter the sails will be slightly bigger.  I guess if a boat is going to San Francisco they won't go with bigger sails but in the North East and FL there are generally lighter winds then what the European boats generally sail in.  I think between the main and jib 2 sq/m might be added.  

 

 

 

 

 

Add the PNW to that list. Come to think of it, most anywhere except SF and Corpus in the US. 

Eager to see some DH offshore races on the West Coast. 

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Doublehanded Farallones, Doublehanded in Pacific Cup, DH Division in the OYRA, Doublehanded Longpac, divisions available in many races outside of the SSS season as well.    I'm sure if there was enough interest the California Offshore Race Week could be a great series.

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Has anyone seen how this boat might be rated in PHRF?

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An easy boat to add sail area too, make the square top bigger, increase luff length on the jib (the boat was never designed to use the whole forestay) longer bowsprit and bigger kite etc.

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What do you suppose the chances are that one of these new 3300s will be on display at the April in-the-water boat show in San Francisco Bay?  My guess:  Slim-to-none.  (I'd love to be dead wrong, mind you!)

The SF Bay region remains appallingly clueless about the newest SH designs, but worse, a rapidly-disappearing middle class is drying up the reservoir of potential new boat buyers in the 30-36 foot size range; worse, the few potential buyers continue to fixated on J Boats.  Ugh!

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On 12/21/2019 at 3:51 PM, C34 Happy said:

Has anyone seen how this boat might be rated in PHRF?

66 for W/L, 54 for point to points on the Chesapeake Bay.

Greg

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20 hours ago, gcutter said:

66 for W/L, 54 for point to points on the Chesapeake Bay.

Greg

That's a fair bit faster than a J/99, no?  Aren't they rating in the 70's, or higher?

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Greg, thank you for those PHRFs for the SF3300.  Roleur, I see that there is a PHRF rating (basically 72) for a J/99 called Agent 99 owned by a Jeff Johnstone at the other side of the country, in the Long Island fleet, at https://www.yralis.org/phrf_cert_list.  Regards. Michael 

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On 11/28/2019 at 7:01 PM, C34 Happy said:

I am trying to get a group together to share a Sun Fast 3300 for racing and cruising in northern Europe, Med, Caribbean, and US east coast.  Can anyone recommend where to look for participants -- websites, forums, publications, etc.? 

 

How's your project progressing? I run a FB group called 'Au Large a Deux' for people interested in offshore double-handed racing. Members are mostly British, French or Dutch. You might find some interest there.

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Hello Kass:

 

Thank you for your inquiry.  Since my November 28 post that you quote, we have tweaked our SF3300 sharing proposal - see below.  If you put it on your FB page (or invite me there somehow - I am an FB luddite), that would be great. In any event, I will try to find your site. It would be good to know more about Au Large a Deux.

 

We (a Brit and a Canuck) seek 4 to 6 sailors to join us in buying a Jeanneau Sun Fast 3300 to race and cruise (sometimes together, probably mostly in turns) in Northern Europe and the Mediterranean over the next five years.  Ideally, you would have relevant experience and time to sail for two weeks to two months a year in Europe and be willing to help spec and commission the boat, select races, decide cruising itineraries, and manage her.

 

Brand-new, race-ready, and delivered on the Baltic coast near the Polish factory, the SF3300 will cost approximately $250,000 US ($300,000 if VAT must be paid).  So, assuming 6-8 participants and depending on the VAT situation, buy-in would be $32,000-$50,000 each.  Annual common costs (insurance, maintenance, moorage when the boat is not being used, etc.) would come in at an estimated $3,200-$4,200 each.

 

You will see preliminary boat specs in my two November 30 postings on this thread.

 

We originally contemplated bringing the boat to the Caribbean/US East Coast after a few years but simplified the proposal to "Europe only", although the group could decide otherwise.

 

We would welcome participants from anywhere.

 

My English partner in this venture is in insurance in the City (where my daughter also lives, so my wife and I get to London fairly often).  As a young guy, he worked and raced in Italy. I'm a business lawyer and have taught various Power Squadron courses and shared sailboats for about 20 years.  My racing has mainly been short-handed or solo in duffer round-the-cans races.

 

If you or anyone else on this forum wants to follow up, please don’t hesitate to contact me at “liamknuj at mjmacleod dot com”.  That’s an alias address but I will reply from my own email.

 

Regards

Michael

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On 1/7/2020 at 3:26 AM, Roleur said:

That's a fair bit faster than a J/99, no?  Aren't they rating in the 70's, or higher?

Would that not be somewhat of a disappointment for J-Boats if the J/99 is significantly slower than both SF3300 and JPK 1030(and perhaps Dehler 30OD)?

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6 minutes ago, Nubben said:

Would that not be somewhat of a disappointment for J-Boats if the J/99 is significantly slower than both SF3300 and JPK 1030(and perhaps Dehler 30OD)?

Disappoints me.

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No, I don't think so.  One of the "secrets" to J/Boats success is building well performing boats that the average owner can achieve/extract most of that available performance from.  They very specifically don't often try to build the fastest boat in a size or category, the J/125 and J/90 excepted.  Plus I'm not sure 6 sec/mile is significantly slower.  If both boats are sailed perfectly to their rating, it would mean after 10 miles of sailing, the J/99 is 60 secs behind the 3300.  If you assume an average speed of 7.5 knots over those 10 miles, then 60 secs behind is 1.25% slower.  Or put another way, you car can go 200 mph, mine can "only" go 197.5 mph.  How significant that is is up to buyers to decide.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Crash said:

No, I don't think so.  One of the "secrets" to J/Boats success is building well performing boats that the average owner can achieve/extract most of that available performance from.  They very specifically don't often try to build the fastest boat in a size or category, the J/125 and J/90 excepted.  Plus I'm not sure 6 sec/mile is significantly slower.  If both boats are sailed perfectly to their rating, it would mean after 10 miles of sailing, the J/99 is 60 secs behind the 3300.  If you assume an average speed of 7.5 knots over those 10 miles, then 60 secs behind is 1.25% slower.  Or put another way, you car can go 200 mph, mine can "only" go 197.5 mph.  How significant that is is up to buyers to decide.  

 

Thanks, got it. 

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My suspicion is that in the end the difference will be more than 6 secs/mile.  What does ORC say?  

I'd actually be very happy if the 72 rating for the J/99 is valid, but I'm thinking it won't stay there.  In ORC it looks like the J/99 is rating only 5 seconds faster than a J/92 and 20 seconds slower than a J/109.  Either it has a sweet ORC rating, or....?

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That's part of the game of design, isn't it.  What rule (or rules) are you designing to/optimizing for.  It's gotta be a pain the in the neck right now with so many rules rating systems running around out there.  IRC, ORC, ORR, PHRF (not a rule..) etc

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6 hours ago, Crash said:

No, I don't think so.  One of the "secrets" to J/Boats success is building well performing boats that the average owner can achieve/extract most of that available performance from.  

 

The Sydney to Hobart performance of the J/133 Patriot resulting in a top ten place, the only production boat in the top 14  in a sea of carbon custom pro-sailed one-offs would support your proposal.

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On 1/11/2020 at 12:51 AM, Crash said:

That's part of the game of design, isn't it.  What rule (or rules) are you designing to/optimizing for.  It's gotta be a pain the in the neck right now with so many rules rating systems running around out there.  IRC, ORC, ORR, PHRF (not a rule..) etc

It certainly is! I'm racing the OSTAR this year (IRC), and for the first time it's leaving early enough to make it feasible for finishers to take part in the Newport Bermuda Race. I would love to do that (in the double-handed division), but don't have the resources (time, money, headspace) to sort out an ORR cert on this side of the pond. Pity really, as the OSTAR will most likely return to its customary late May or early June start in future editions.

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4 hours ago, kass said:

It certainly is! I'm racing the OSTAR this year (IRC), and for the first time it's leaving early enough to make it feasible for finishers to take part in the Newport Bermuda Race. I would love to do that (in the double-handed division), but don't have the resources (time, money, headspace) to sort out an ORR cert on this side of the pond. Pity really, as the OSTAR will most likely return to its customary late May or early June start in future editions.

what kind of boat do you have?

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I have some partial info only but does anyone know if both the J/99 and SF 3300 are at both or either of the Seattle and/or Vancouver boatshows?    Is The First(Seascape) 27 getting any show-time?    Would be great to get first-looks in one outing.

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1 hour ago, Skid51 said:

I have some partial info only but does anyone know if both the J/99 and SF 3300 are at both or either of the Seattle and/or Vancouver boatshows?    Is The First(Seascape) 27 getting any show-time?    Would be great to get first-looks in one outing.

The J/99 will be Seattle.  

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With respect to the Euro vs. US 3300, and it's PHRF rating, the US model has a much larger fixed sprit, I'd guess about 1.5x longer. And yes, the main's foot is much longer but I'm also wondering if the carbon rig is a bit taller. As far as the J-99 compared to the 3300, I haven't sailed either, but at the Naptown boat show, we were totally underwhelmed by the design, finish, and equipment on the J-99...yawn.

My $0.02 US worth,

Greg

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On 1/13/2020 at 8:36 AM, Skid51 said:

I have some partial info only but does anyone know if both the J/99 and SF 3300 are at both or either of the Seattle and/or Vancouver boatshows?    Is The First(Seascape) 27 getting any show-time?    Would be great to get first-looks in one outing.

No west coast showings on the 3300.   Seems there’s just one in NAM and its on the east coast.   Maybe J/99 gets the jump on this market on this side of the pond.

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Rumor has it there will be a 3300 in New England somewhere in the April/May time frame.

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As regards stick size, there was a story about approval whereby they wanted to keep same righting moment or something, so originally planned a shorter tin stick than carbon. Then someone in buying or whatever rationalised the 2 sticks down to the shorter length for compatibility reasons. Not sure how much, if any truth there was in the story?

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On 1/17/2020 at 6:52 AM, ryley said:

Rumor has it there will be a 3300 in New England somewhere in the April/May time frame.

Learned today that one will be delivered to the Chicago area in the same timeframe...

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incredible looking boat - not sure what else one could want - the design I had in my head for the last 6 years was not nearly as good as this turned out.

I cant afford 300k for such a thing and to be honest I am slowing at age 54. This thing is epic tho. I'm sure the 1030 is well done too but the j99 is not part of this conversation.

Have to just enjoy the A31 i guess.

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I had a poke around one when it was at the boat show here, good looking well set up boat! Exactly the short of thing I'd want for IRC short handing.

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15 hours ago, vikram said:

incredible looking boat - not sure what else one could want - the design I had in my head for the last 6 years was not nearly as good as this turned out.

I cant afford 300k for such a thing and to be honest I am slowing at age 54. This thing is epic tho. I'm sure the 1030 is well done too but the j99 is not part of this conversation.

Have to just enjoy the A31 i guess.

Never too old Vikram. This is my boat and I am 58!!! For my sins I just helped a mate sail his new (to him) A31 from La Trinite to Southampton. Mid-January, upwind the whole 320 miles, and never been so cold!!!. Great boat, I was actually well impressed. Not the same as a 3300, but good all the same.

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What do you suppose the chances are that we'll see a 3300 at the April in the water boat show in the Bay Area?  I'm betting the same chances that we'd see the Sunfast 3200 or 3600 in previous shows: 0

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After a quick check I didn't see it listed here, but looks like Ken Read (de N/S) did pretty well in the double handed section of the ft.lauderdale to Key West race.

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40 minutes ago, fingerbang said:

ken read & partner , in one of the new  jeanneau 3300's, that is

"partner" has a name, and a pretty impressive CV, actually. Just sayin'

Quote

SUZY LEECH

Suzy has spent her life on boats, including the bow in the 1995 America’s Cup, and since then as helm, tactician, and navigator on boats from her J70 to Super Yachts with Temptation/Oakcliff in between. She has won over 30 International regattas, in 15 separate classes, and is a World Champion in three of them. Suzy is an Aerospace Engineer who started her career developing data systems for NASA’s International Space Station. She currently develops database-driven websites, and has conducted remote expeditions for National Geographic, UNESCO and ESPN. She has also parlayed her experience in sailing to work both in-front of, and behind, the camera – commentating, producing & filming on-board for ESPN. She brings her energy and enthusiasm for sailing and fundraising to Oakcliff’s Board.

from https://www.oakcliffsailing.org/bio/suzy-leech/

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On 1/18/2020 at 12:16 PM, cms said:

As regards stick size, there was a story about approval whereby they wanted to keep same righting moment or something, so originally planned a shorter tin stick than carbon. Then someone in buying or whatever rationalised the 2 sticks down to the shorter length for compatibility reasons. Not sure how much, if any truth there was in the story?

The only difference I've seen in the 3300 rigs is that the US boat has a bigger headboard (1.5m vs 0.96m)  on the main so it carries slightly more area (35.6m2 vs 34.7m2). P is 12m for both setups. Other than that it looks like all the other dimensions are the same with the exception that if you are running the symmetric setup, the sprit is .25m and if you're running the asymmetric setup, the sprit is 1.15m. Should be fun to see one in person.

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Gone quiet.

Any idea how many were delivered before the world changed?

Anyone got an IRC rating number?

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19 minutes ago, Jono said:

Gone quiet.

Any idea how many were delivered before the world changed?

Anyone got an IRC rating number?

IRC numbers are available online, the UK dealer... well the boat was the show boat and I think the owner has connections with Jeaneau has Fasttrak XII at 1.027, same boat Henry Bomby and Hannah Diamond did the Fastnet on.

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5 hours ago, JonRowe said:

IRC numbers are available online, the UK dealer... well the boat was the show boat and I think the owner has connections with Jeaneau has Fasttrak XII at 1.027, same boat Henry Bomby and Hannah Diamond did the Fastnet on.

I think I’ve seen 4 boats in the UK now? Definitely more on the way too

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Yeah I think there’s two in the Solent and I think I’ve seen a third being commissioned here

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Thanks.

So probably the US setup will be 1.03 something. Pretty good for that size

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I can report 5 boats now physically in the UK. 2 commissioned ashore and currently under Lock Down at Hamble Yacht Services, and 3 ashore at Swanwick being commissioned ready for launching when released from Lock Down, and boat number 6 arriving from the factory next week, but commissioning won't start until Lock Down is over. Then there are 4 more incoming before the Autumn but deliveries are now delayed for obvious reasons.

Fastrak has been weighed and measured and the 2020 IRC rating is 1.027 with water ballast + carbon rig + Asymmetric set up. The spread of ratings seems to be between 1.025 and 1.035 depending on set up.

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So, how do the j99, sun fast 3300 and JPK1030 finally compare in boat speed and popularity?

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11 hours ago, Nubben said:

So, how do the j99, sun fast 3300 and JPK1030 finally compare in boat speed and popularity?

Well we normally wait for Spi Ouest regatta to tell us! And what’s your race course? A light airs W/L, DH or crew, offshore race, on IRC corrected time, on the water? The data for speed is old as quite a bit of time has passed since the 3300 and 1030 raced in the Fastnet.

I think popularity is the easiest thing to conclude with. People tend to move with their feet and the fact that the UK has 10 3300s sold compared to 2 J99s and 0 JPK 1030s tells you where people are putting their money. I know 2 guys who are eagerly awaiting their 3300 in the UK and for them the boat was a no brainer for a DH racing campaign. I know of 1 J boat owner who was in the market for a DH racer and looked at the 3300 at Southampton boatshow and thought it looked horrible and would rather buy a motor boat, they then looked at the J99 and thought it was beautiful. Needless to say that owner isn’t particularly high up the result sheet in general.

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8 hours ago, JL92S said:

Well we normally wait for Spi Ouest regatta to tell us! And what’s your race course? A light airs W/L, DH or crew, offshore race, on IRC corrected time, on the water? The data for speed is old as quite a bit of time has passed since the 3300 and 1030 raced in the Fastnet.

I think popularity is the easiest thing to conclude with. People tend to move with their feet and the fact that the UK has 10 3300s sold compared to 2 J99s and 0 JPK 1030s tells you where people are putting their money. I know 2 guys who are eagerly awaiting their 3300 in the UK and for them the boat was a no brainer for a DH racing campaign. I know of 1 J boat owner who was in the market for a DH racer and looked at the 3300 at Southampton boatshow and thought it looked horrible and would rather buy a motor boat, they then looked at the J99 and thought it was beautiful. Needless to say that owner isn’t particularly high up the result sheet in general.

0 JPKs? There’s been at least 3 racing and as far as I know a waiting list for JPKs. 
 

The 3300 is a great boat for sure and Jenneau deserves credit for it but let’s not get carried away announcing the death of French small yards. 

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I was going to mention I've seen a few of the smaller JPKs out sailing, but I think they're the older one? The 1050? So many models now.

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10 hours ago, Miffy said:

0 JPKs? There’s been at least 3 racing and as far as I know a waiting list for JPKs. 
 

The 3300 is a great boat for sure and Jenneau deserves credit for it but let’s not get carried away announcing the death of French small yards. 

The new 1030 in the UK? We have a couple of 1010s based here, Elaine Again being 1 and Jangada being the other although they’re en route back from Fort Lauderdale via ship. Spi Ouest, Armen Race and the Transquadra will show who has got it right if we get any of those this year

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I’m currently in the order queue for a jpk1030 . In august of last year (just after their fastnet result) jpk were projecting delivery around feb 2021, so yes waiting list for them

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4 hours ago, JL92S said:

The new 1030 in the UK? We have a couple of 1010s based here, Elaine Again being 1 and Jangada being the other although they’re en route back from Fort Lauderdale via ship. Spi Ouest, Armen Race and the Transquadra will show who has got it right if we get any of those this year

No on the French side. The reason why you’re not seeing 1030s in the Uk has nothing to do with performance or lack of sales - it is because JPK orders line up really quickly and the boats being launched now and delivered are going to French customers who probably made the order before Leon boat 1 was even launched. 
 

your original post implied there was something defective about 1030 that led to 0 sales. Which is simply not the case. 

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So to conclude, both the SF3300 and JPK seem to have their fan base but the J99 is lacking support?

 

In my eyes the JPK and SF both look good but would probably choose the JPK. The J99 is a bit conservatively designed and probably not as slippery as the other two?

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1 hour ago, Nubben said:

So to conclude, both the SF3300 and JPK seem to have their fan base but the J99 is lacking support?

 

In my eyes the JPK and SF both look good but would probably choose the JPK. The J99 is a bit conservatively designed and probably not as slippery as the other two?

J/99 may be suffering lack of support due to untimely death of Paul Heys...

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In the J99 thread, estimate is they are up to hull #60 at least. I think each boat has its admirers and it is awesome that there are several builders offering a design configured especially for shorthand. 

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Regarding the double concave hull shape and 'building to the rule.' I came across an interview with Verdier where he mentioned that he also employed the shape on the latest and greatest non-scow mini, the Pogo 3. You can clearly see the double concave hull in the production shot below, though admittedly less extreme than the 3300's shape. Perhaps it's less of a sacrifice to the IRC gods than we thought...

 

DSC_0450-1920x1080.jpg

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Did anyone else hear about Ken Reade's SF3300 hull #4 going up for sale? Nicely equipped with a full set of sails.