Vaeredil

Life aboard a sub-20' Sailboat

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Anyone know someone or heard of anyone living on a Sailboat 20' or less? 

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Just now, kevinjones16 said:

Flicka. 

Expensive, but gorgeous little boats. There's a blue one for sale in BC right now that's been around for a long time. I wonder if anyone will ever pick it up? 

 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/pacific-seacraft-flicka-20-3197964/

 

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ocean crossing might be uncomfortable, but if you look at it like extended coastal camping, it's pretty good :P

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Why?

For the price of a Flicka or similar you could buy a decent 35' and have room to move.

Living on any boat under about 50' requires a fair to large amount of compromise. Trying to live aboard on a 20' boat smells like some sort of stunt.

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

Why?

For the price of a Flicka or similar you could buy a decent 35' and have room to move.

Trying to live aboard on a 20' boat smells.

Condensed.

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I love my Tartan 33, but I wouldn't live on it full time unless my wife kicks me out of the house. I sailed my Capri 25 from Seattle to San Francisco. A week on that boat led to the purchase of the Tartan.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Why?

For the price of a Flicka or similar you could buy a decent 35' and have room to move.

Living on any boat under about 50' requires a fair to large amount of compromise. Trying to live aboard on a 20' boat smells like some sort of stunt.

I think 50' is a bit extreme. Couples live comfortably on 40 footers all the time. I lived on my Pearson 30 for almost a year, and was comfortable.

I could easily live on my Tartan 33 alone. It would be a stretch with my spouse, but only because she's a bit of a clothes hoarder.

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Read - 3 years aboard an 8ft boat

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I think 50' is a bit extreme. Couples live comfortably on 40 footers all the time. I lived on my Pearson 30 for almost a year, and was comfortable.

I could easily live on my Tartan 33 alone. It would be a stretch with my spouse, but only because she's a bit of a clothes hoarder.

fashion plate  :>)

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I think 50' is a bit extreme. Couples live comfortably on 40 footers all the time. I lived on my Pearson 30 for almost a year, and was comfortable.

I could easily live on my Tartan 33 alone. It would be a stretch with my spouse, but only because she's a bit of a clothes hoarder.

aren't them all? or shoes...

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Why?

For the price of a Flicka or similar you could buy a decent 35' and have room to move.

Living on any boat under about 50' requires a fair to large amount of compromise. Trying to live aboard on a 20' boat smells like some sort of stunt.

We lived on a 45' and found it verged on the luxurious. Really not much in the way of compromise at all.

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

I think 50' is a bit extreme. Couples live comfortably on 40 footers all the time. I lived on my Pearson 30 for almost a year, and was comfortable.

I could easily live on my Tartan 33 alone. It would be a stretch with my spouse, but only because she's a bit of a clothes hoarder.

I can tell you from direct experience living aboard a 50'er that it doesn't seem that big when there's a family of 5 plus dog aboard, especially over a Seattle winter.

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Twenty feet is doable if the boat is designed for that particular purpose. William Garden designed a 20' apartment for student.

garden2.jpe

 

garden1.jpe

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2 hours ago, chester said:

fashion plate  :>)

With my wife, it's not fashion. She's a park ranger and a tomboy. No, with my wife it's a deathly fear of being "unprepared."

Sure, she has way too many shoes-  Keens, work boots, Vibram 5-finger shoes.  Clothes-  Jeans and outer wear for any conceivable combination of temperature and precipitation. Her Columbia collection is astounding. I'm pretty sure that she thinks "Ma Boyle" is her blood related grandmother.

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2 minutes ago, Ajax said:

With my wife, it's not fashion. She's a park ranger and a tomboy. No, with my wife it's a deathly fear of being "unprepared."

Sure, she has way too many shoes-  Keens, work boots, Vibram 5-finger shoes.  Clothes-  Jeans and outer wear for any conceivable combination of temperature and precipitation. Her Columbia collection is astounding. I'm pretty sure that she thinks "Ma Boyle" is her blood related grandmother.

duly noted  ;>)

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

I think 50' is a bit extreme. Couples live comfortably on 40 footers all the time. I lived on my Pearson 30 for almost a year, and was comfortable.

I could easily live on my Tartan 33 alone. It would be a stretch with my spouse, but only because she's a bit of a clothes hoarder.

Where did you fit your laundry machines and dishwasher?

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19 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Where did you fit your laundry machines and dishwasher?

LOL...the "dishwasher" is at the end of my arms. The laundry and shower were at the end of the dock.

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You may have seen this Vaeredil, it has a good introduction to some under 20ft sailors like Alfred Johnson and Alain Bombard who sailed offshore in tiny craft. The video starts with an explanation of derelict boats and the fifth type of sailor.

 

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2 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Twenty feet is doable if the boat is designed for that particular purpose. William Garden designed a 20' apartment for student.

garden2.jpe

 

garden1.jpe

The article says 24 feet. Still, lotta room packed in there. 

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59 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

 and the fifth type of sailor.

 

I seriously thought you wrote “filthy” type of sailor!  Not judging Moxie Marlinspike and crew (in the film, which I’ve seen) —I love their “git’er done” approach in the often snobby, conservative world of sailboats— but there’s certainly a grunge factor there :-)

Vaeredil: you need to take my Cal 20.  Seriously.  Great little boat.  I could quasi “live” on it for a summer, while cruising.

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54 minutes ago, Ajax said:

LOL...the "dishwasher" is at the end of my arms. The laundry and shower were at the end of the dock.

Compromises, compromises.

Paddling ashore or humping down a long dock with bags of laundry in the rain is the sort of thing I was referring to.

Or doing the same to get a shower and being wet & sweaty by the time you got back home.

The romance of living on boats or islands is generally predicated on dreams of tropical sunshine and sandy beaches with warm water - then it runs headlong into those sorts of realities - at least around here.

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Spent shy of three years living on my CS27 with my wife and our Pug Canada to the Caribbean and South America back in the 90's.

Key was, we were still young(er) (late 30's)

 

Couldn't do it now.... need something over 800 ft. :-) 

15qawy0.jpg2wqr7fl.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I seriously thought you wrote “filthy” type of sailor!  Not judging Moxie Marlinspike and crew (in the film, which I’ve seen) —I love their “git’er done” approach in the often snobby, conservative world of sailboats— but there’s certainly a grunge factor there :-)

Vaeredil: you need to take my Cal 20.  Seriously.  Great little boat.  I could quasi “live” on it for a summer, while cruising.

Haha

Not judging them, I find their adventure to be inspiring to that generation and brings back memories to older sailors. He does a clear monologue in the video and touches on observations like how the pedestrian crossing light figure in Nassau looks compared to the USA one, out of the blue things like that. Kudos to them for putting that much work into the adventure and the video. I love how they fiqure things out and make do, like a bag of bricks for a kellet.

Cal 20 plus 2...

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50 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The article says 24 feet. Still, lotta room packed in there. 

I've just gotta stop trusting my memory.

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When Phil Bolger got a commission for a minimum live-aboard (Jesse Cooper design, shown below), it came out at 26'. To do that, he resorted to such extremes as an off-center mainmast, off-center dagger board, and vertical companionway ladder. When he designed another boat with most of the oddities fixed, it was up to 30'.

 

 

2018-12-12_1353.png

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58 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Compromises, compromises.

Paddling ashore or humping down a long dock with bags of laundry in the rain is the sort of thing I was referring to.

Or doing the same to get a shower and being wet & sweaty by the time you got back home.

The romance of living on boats or islands is generally predicated on dreams of tropical sunshine and sandy beaches with warm water - then it runs headlong into those sorts of realities - at least around here.

Oh yes, I ran into the "reality" when I stepped onto the finger dock one dark, December morning to go flying, and land crossways on my side, across the cockpit coaming due to slipping on hoarfrost. I nearly broke some ribs but I could have fallen into the water between the boat and the finger dock and died. Nothing romantic about that.

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John Welsford designed an 18' boat of Flicka-like proportions called Swaggie for long range cruising. 

 

sw-profile-300.gif

SW-interior-300.gif

 

Interior of a Swaggie under construction:

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Having spent 5 years sailing the coast of Britain in an 18 footer

https://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/mirror-offshore-sales-brochure/

my one piece of advice is to make sure that the cooker is under the hatch so that you can stand up while you prepare meals - I then use an umbrella as  rain and wind protection.

Here is a short film about an old twassock sailing his 18 footer in minus 5 C -

 

condensation is the enemy

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3 hours ago, Blye said:

Spent shy of three years living on my CS27 with my wife and our Pug Canada to the Caribbean and South America back in the 90's.

Key was, we were still young(er) (late 30's)

 

Couldn't do it now.... need something over 800 ft. :-) 

15qawy0.jpg2wqr7fl.jpg

i read your blog back in the day...it was awesome.

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18 hours ago, chester said:

Remember miss cindy? Dude sailed a 16 ft cat from Baja to Florida in a year.

I looked this one up, and holy that's an impressive voyage. The shots of his little car carrying it on the roof are almost comical. 

9 hours ago, Ajax said:

I think 50' is a bit extreme. Couples live comfortably on 40 footers all the time. I lived on my Pearson 30 for almost a year, and was comfortable.

I could easily live on my Tartan 33 alone. It would be a stretch with my spouse, but only because she's a bit of a clothes hoarder.

Even my friend's Catalina 27 could comfortably hold 1 almost indefinitely. I was interested in learning about smaller boats just because the initial outlay, plus the cost of getting them "seaworthy" is orders of magnitude less. 

5 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

You may have seen this Vaeredil, it has a good introduction to some under 20ft sailors like Alfred Johnson and Alain Bombard who sailed offshore in tiny craft. The video starts with an explanation of derelict boats and the fifth type of sailor.

 

Hold Fast is one of my favorite sailing films :D Watched, and re-watched at least twice. Moxie does give some good historical background (and I love his attitude towards the elite yachters) 

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4 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Vaeredil: you need to take my Cal 20.  Seriously.  Great little boat.  I could quasi “live” on it for a summer, while cruising.

I rowed around her and had a look from my dinghy a few summers back when Mistal, Amrak and I were in the bay there, although I had no idea it was yours or who you were at the time! I might well be interested (albeit not for at least a few months :P). 

Did you ever have any luck rebedding the keel bolts on her? I remember you saying there were leaking when you and the little one did the First stage of R2AK last year (or the year before?). 

I don't know how you do that, actually. Do you have to fill the old holes with epoxy, redrill, and then add new bolts? Haven't had to mess with that on any of my boats yet. 

 

 

I honestly think a Cal 20 is near ideal. Only downside is they are just deep-keeled enough that you'd need some way to get to shore and back, but I love the idea in pretty much every other way. Just big enough for sleeping room and a few jugs of water and food, but small enough to go a lot of places the 6+ foot draft big yachts can't even dream of. Plus, they sail pretty damn good for 20 feet. 

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V, CHECK out the CS 22, I owned one for a few years. Has a very livable interior. Surprising vberth, dinette/settee, galley module , decent qberth all made useful by a well done pop top. External keel with centre board so totally beachable and trailerable.  Most are in Ontario and really cheap.

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Just now, chester said:

V, CHECK out the CS 22, I owned one for a few years. Has a very livable interior. Surprising vberth, dinette/settee, galley module , decent qberth all made useful by a well done pop top. External keel with centre board so totally beachable and trailerable.  Most are in Ontario and really cheap.

Dang, those do look pretty decent..... and not badly priced for a good looking one; https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/north-bay/cs-22-sailboat-for-sale/1392603846?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

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I knew a guy who lived on a Cal 25 by choice for a couple of years, worked OK for him.

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To me all that is one step above living in a homeless tent city.

Being able to say "I live on my yacht" is the only thing that gives it a semblance of respectability.

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About the shoes.  Women can't have enough, " because they have to go with the outfit". " Why do you have so many   surfboards?  Do you really need that many Boards?"   "How many shoes do you need?"  The surfboard question has never come up again and that was 20 years ago.  Feminine logic, always wins.

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1 hour ago, hard aground said:

Abbott 22 is worth a look too. Fixed keel instead of lifting like the CS, but pretty decent for 22 feet.

The Abbott is a sweet boat

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20 minutes ago, guerdon said:

About the shoes.  Women can't have enough, " because they have to go with the outfit". "

Guys don't understand women and shoes because they aren't the same thing and don't serve the same purpose as men's shoes.

Men wear shoes to protect their feet.

Women wear shoes as a fashion accessory - they have much more in common with jewelry than with men's shoes.

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28 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

To me all that is one step above living in a homeless tent city.

Being able to say "I live on my yacht" is the only thing that gives it a semblance of respectability.

A few more steps than you might imagine. I've been homeless before too :P

 

Probably the biggest thing is a relatively secure place to not have to worry about your few possessions, and the ability to travel for very little cost 

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I may be wrong, but once you're down below 30' or so, do you really save that much by dropping further down?  Assume anchoring, no marina fees.  I think looking for a really common boat like a Catalina 27 or 30 might be the ticket.  You can find lots of them around, bargain hard, and re-fit with leftovers from other boats.  There have to be hundreds of used C30 sails down here in SoCal, probably many useable ones you could pick up for almost free.  Same with hardware, lines, etc.  You could go smaller, but I'm not sure you'd actually gain that much in saved running costs and you'd be far far more comfortable, and perhaps have some hope of luring a companion onto the boat at some point.  

Just a thought

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5 hours ago, socalrider said:

I may be wrong, but once you're down below 30' or so, do you really save that much by dropping further down?  Assume anchoring, no marina fees.  I think looking for a really common boat like a Catalina 27 or 30 might be the ticket.  You can find lots of them around, bargain hard, and re-fit with leftovers from other boats.  There have to be hundreds of used C30 sails down here in SoCal, probably many useable ones you could pick up for almost free.  Same with hardware, lines, etc.  You could go smaller, but I'm not sure you'd actually gain that much in saved running costs and you'd be far far more comfortable, and perhaps have some hope of luring a companion onto the boat at some point.  

Just a thought

I dunno if there's really a hard cut-off point, but you're certainly correct that the cost of keeping a boat does not go up/down in a linear proportion to size.

A lot would depend on where you keep it. Are marina slips sized to 30 ft LOA and no smaller (this, or even 35 ft, is becoming common here on the East Coats)? Then yeah, you're not saving a penny on slip rent by going smaller.

Complexity also plays a part. Boats with fancy rigs and lots of systems definitely cost more in both maintenance time and money...... they are also a lot more comfortable. I can't imagine living in the south without air conditioning (although I did it myself for decades, that was far back in the past); and this time of year you'd certainly want heat.

2nd hand gear and sails are a mixed bag. Takes a lot of time to shop (although it's a good hobby), and most of the time when I'm looking, all I can find is thoroughly used-up stuff at ~75% (and up) the price of new.

FB- Doug

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6 hours ago, socalrider said:

I may be wrong, but once you're down below 30' or so, do you really save that much by dropping further down?  Assume anchoring, no marina fees.  I think looking for a really common boat like a Catalina 27 or 30 might be the ticket.  You can find lots of them around, bargain hard, and re-fit with leftovers from other boats.  There have to be hundreds of used C30 sails down here in SoCal, probably many useable ones you could pick up for almost free.  Same with hardware, lines, etc.  You could go smaller, but I'm not sure you'd actually gain that much in saved running costs and you'd be far far more comfortable, and perhaps have some hope of luring a companion onto the boat at some point.  

Just a thought

I'm a lousy cruiser, have only gone for a week at a time.  But I think a roomy 27 foot boat (used to own a Catalina 27) would be close to the bottom of what I could live with, partly because I'm a big ass dude.  I could easily see living aboard a Catalina 30 though, amazingly roomy boat and plenty of storage. The current ride is a J/35 which we cruise (wife, one teenage kid) when not racing.  It has a ton of space when not occupied by 7 sails, 9 crew kit bags, foulies, crashed out crew and enough beer and water to fuel a Bills tailgating party.  But I'd want better secure storage options, 25 gallon water tank and a couple amenities added, including enough power for a fan when anchored in really hot weather, and perhaps a way to rig a shower if marinas weren't an option.  (Maybe a Honda 2k genny plus a small used air conditioner unit and engine block rigged hot water heater would do the trick?) 

I think net space isn't the problem with most boats (other than sporty little racers with small cabins), but how that space is configured, and making a wise choice of amenities. 

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14 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

I rowed around her and had a look from my dinghy a few summers back when Mistal, Amrak and I were in the bay there, although I had no idea it was yours or who you were at the time! I might well be interested (albeit not for at least a few months :P). 

Did you ever have any luck rebedding the keel bolts on her? I remember you saying there were leaking when you and the little one did the First stage of R2AK last year (or the year before?). 

I don't know how you do that, actually. Do you have to fill the old holes with epoxy, redrill, and then add new bolts? Haven't had to mess with that on any of my boats yet. 

 

 

I honestly think a Cal 20 is near ideal. Only downside is they are just deep-keeled enough that you'd need some way to get to shore and back, but I love the idea in pretty much every other way. Just big enough for sleeping room and a few jugs of water and food, but small enough to go a lot of places the 6+ foot draft big yachts can't even dream of. Plus, they sail pretty damn good for 20 feet. 

Replacing keel bolts looks pretty easy.  See, for example, here: 

I figure the boat and basic yard  trailer are worth $500.  Boat needs cosmetic, etc work, but I completely re-rigged (running rigging) it, new blocks, new main sheet track.  Two spinnakers.  Several main, jibs.  Certainly not a liveaboard boat, but adequate for very basic summer cruising around here.  With standing rigging replaced, I’d take it to Alaska.

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We were racing in plumper sound race week one year , and one of the team was not available for the first couple of days. We picked up a local dude from the marina at port browning to fill the spot. He was living on his cal 20, although I don't think it left the dock much. He wasn't a lot of help on the Moore 24, however he was great at finding parties on Pender Island! So it can be done, but I would want shoreside showers and laundry. Cheers!

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2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Replacing keel bolts looks pretty easy.  See, for example, here: 

 

Those flanged keels held on with machine screws (Cals, T-Birds etc.) are dead simple to re-fasten. Aside from the weight which obviously requires serious care, they are simpler than putting a cylinder head on an engine.

If they aren't leaking you can simply knock out and replace one screw and nut at a time. You can also do it just to examine the fasteners - a whole lot simpler and cheaper than a lead keel with J'd studs cast in place.

They also provide a much wider fastening base than a line of bolts in the middle of a thin keel. All keels should be mounted that way.

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If I lived in Dryden I think my adventure in a sub 20 boat would start at Thunder Bay and take in the Great Lakes then south for the winter. That would be an epic freshwater trip.

Here is a great link for your winter reading and an ebook called "A Year in a Yawl" by Russell Doubleday. A Year in a Yawl, by Russell Doubleday—A Project Gutenberg eBook

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On 12/13/2018 at 9:26 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Replacing keel bolts looks pretty easy.  See, for example, here: 

I figure the boat and basic yard  trailer are worth $500.  Boat needs cosmetic, etc work, but I completely re-rigged (running rigging) it, new blocks, new main sheet track.  Two spinnakers.  Several main, jibs.  Certainly not a liveaboard boat, but adequate for very basic summer cruising around here.  With standing rigging replaced, I’d take it to Alaska.

Yeah, that doesn't seem too bad. Like someone else said, gotta be careful with the weight but it's not bad otherwise. 

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22 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

If I lived in Dryden I think my adventure in a sub 20 boat would start at Thunder Bay and take in the Great Lakes then south for the winter. That would be an epic freshwater trip.

Here is a great link for your winter reading and an ebook called "A Year in a Yawl" by Russell Doubleday. A Year in a Yawl, by Russell Doubleday—A Project Gutenberg eBook

Thank you for the link! 

I've given a fair bit of thought to that too, being right in the backyard of Thunder Bay is a pretty great draw. Would you suggest through the lakes and out the St. Lawrence, and then south from there, or a different route? I imagine you'd have to start out from Tbay pretty early in the spring, right after icemelt, to make it all the way through by summer's end before the fall storms. 

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46 minutes ago, Vaeredil said:

Thank you for the link! 

I've given a fair bit of thought to that too, being right in the backyard of Thunder Bay is a pretty great draw. Would you suggest through the lakes and out the St. Lawrence, and then south from there, or a different route? I imagine you'd have to start out from Tbay pretty early in the spring, right after icemelt, to make it all the way through by summer's end before the fall storms. 

Three basic choices: St Lawrence, Erie Canal/Hudson R, Mississippi

With each of those three, you have a bunch of sub-choices. Of course each route has it's plusses and minusses. All three have got lots of beautiful places to enjoy, friendly landings, historic towns, etc etc.

Going the St Lawrence, you're in fairly big water almost the whole way, no need to take the mast down, lots of sailing opportunity; it's also the coldest route, the most weather-limited, and you'll share it the whole way with big dangerous ships.

There are several ways to get into the Erie (New York State Barge) Canal waterways, thru Buffalo, Oswego, or via Lake Champlain. They are all height-limited and you will have to take your mast down. One plus is that you can do this for free (well, kinda) at the beginning and end points at established sailing clubs. No commercial traffic. Excellent opportunities for hiking, biking, and/or dog walking every day. Lots of pubs and wineries. Downsides, lots of locks, you need to buy a pass, and it's slow going.

The Mississippi is going to be the fastest way south. There are two routes thru Chicago to the Illinois River, they are also height-limited although once you get on the major rivers the height lifts to 65 ft like the ICW. I don't know if there are free (or quasi-free) mast stepping places. It's a long way with no sailing opportunities, and the weather limits are not what sailors are used to: rain (or lack of it) upstream. In the Erie/Hudson route, you can effectively ignore weather. On the Mississippi route, you can -almost- ignore weather. Navigation is also not what sailors are used to, and you'll share it with some potentially scary commercial traffic. Combination of friendly small towns, history, pubs (not so much wineries, but a few), and Great American Wilderness. If you've ever read Mark Twain and wanted to join Huck & Jim on that raft, this is your route..... it's not as romantic as you'd think, but Mrs Steam and I did it and we liked it. To get to the Gulf, you also have a choice of going Tenn-Tom Waterway or continuing down the Mississippi past N'awlins etc etc.

Not recommending any specific route, just filling in details on how to choose.

FB- Doug

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On a minimum boat the St. Lawrence would not even be a consideration IMO. I can't see that you could make it from TB out and around & far enough south in one season - the other two routes you could (probably).

Either of the inland routes start about 1000 miles from TB so they are a real hike in a minimum boat in a short, Great Lakes season..

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There are at least a couple of deviants who have undertaken coastal sea trips on the east coast but you would run out of summer at some point going out that way. The canals and Chicago put you on your way south sooner if that is the destination.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihulls/1000-miles-around-nova-scotia

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A guy names Shell Drake lived on this little sneak box sailboat as he made his way down the coast from NJ to FL in the way back days late 1800’s early 1900’s. 

The boat is on display at the Toms River Seaport Society. The original lifesaving car is also there. The property is the former home and estate of Joseph Francis, the lifecar inventor.

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Farley Mowat "The Dog Who Won't Be" had a sub story about making it to the sea from the prairies.

This Metis lady tried it from Alberta. Vancouver couple sailing from Saskatchewan Glacier to Lake Winnipeg | CBC News

A circumnavigation of Lake Winnipeg has been done by kayak but no record of it by sailing dinghy on google.

The Nautical World at Lake Winnipeg

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2 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Farley Mowat "The Dog Who Won't Be" had a sub story about making it to the sea from the prairies.

This Metis lady tried it from Alberta. Vancouver couple sailing from Saskatchewan Glacier to Lake Winnipeg | CBC News

A circumnavigation of Lake Winnipeg has been done by kayak but no record of it by sailing dinghy on google.

The Nautical World at Lake Winnipeg

“Oar and Sail: An Odyssey of the West Coast” (sub-20’ cruising on west coast of Canada)

http://creekstonepress.com/index.php/publications/article/oar_sail_an_odyssey_of_the_west_coast

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49 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

http://www.microcruising.com/

This seems to be a good go-to resource.  Like kayak camp-cruising, with a smidgen more room...

Also a link to this 5m specific design race across the Atlantic. The site is Polish but scroll to the bottom to see English and a list of competitors willing to build the boat. A not so novel way of supporting a design. http://www.maderski.pl/setk--przez-atlantyk-2020.html

 

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32 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

“Oar and Sail: An Odyssey of the West Coast” (sub-20’ cruising on west coast of Canada)

http://creekstonepress.com/index.php/publications/article/oar_sail_an_odyssey_of_the_west_coast

Have you read that one? I put it on my list.

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13 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Also a link to this 5m specific design race across the Atlantic. The site is Polish but scroll to the bottom to see English and a list of competitors willing to build the boat. A not so novel way of supporting a design. http://www.maderski.pl/setk--przez-atlantyk-2020.html

 

Here’s a quick little vid —not very informative— by a guy who crossed the Atlantic (US to Europe) in his Cal 20 (another vid here discusses mods/restoration): https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCk0V0OFMUoyT4ypuq0sDx5w

A really good book for 20’ or sub-20’ long distance cruising is Robert Crawford’s “Blackfeathers: A Pocket Racer Sails the Singlehanded Transpac”.  Lots and lots of of details on prep, safety, nav, weather, etc.  Crawford’s the real deal!  https://www.amazon.ca/Black-Feathers-Pocket-Singlehanded-Transpac/dp/1440191964

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On 12/14/2018 at 5:06 PM, SloopJonB said:

On a minimum boat the St. Lawrence would not even be a consideration IMO. I can't see that you could make it from TB out and around & far enough south in one season - the other two routes you could (probably).

Either of the inland routes start about 1000 miles from TB so they are a real hike in a minimum boat in a short, Great Lakes season..

Yeah, I guess at an average of three knots, you'd be looking at somewhere around 40-60 days on a small boat for the inland routes just to get there. Wouldn't want to be on a schedule either, that's half the fun is taking your time and dipping into cool bays to check them out. 

On 12/14/2018 at 12:26 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Three basic choices: St Lawrence, Erie Canal/Hudson R, Mississippi

With each of those three, you have a bunch of sub-choices. Of course each route has it's plusses and minusses. All three have got lots of beautiful places to enjoy, friendly landings, historic towns, etc etc.

Going the St Lawrence, you're in fairly big water almost the whole way, no need to take the mast down, lots of sailing opportunity; it's also the coldest route, the most weather-limited, and you'll share it the whole way with big dangerous ships.

There are several ways to get into the Erie (New York State Barge) Canal waterways, thru Buffalo, Oswego, or via Lake Champlain. They are all height-limited and you will have to take your mast down. One plus is that you can do this for free (well, kinda) at the beginning and end points at established sailing clubs. No commercial traffic. Excellent opportunities for hiking, biking, and/or dog walking every day. Lots of pubs and wineries. Downsides, lots of locks, you need to buy a pass, and it's slow going.

The Mississippi is going to be the fastest way south. There are two routes thru Chicago to the Illinois River, they are also height-limited although once you get on the major rivers the height lifts to 65 ft like the ICW. I don't know if there are free (or quasi-free) mast stepping places. It's a long way with no sailing opportunities, and the weather limits are not what sailors are used to: rain (or lack of it) upstream. In the Erie/Hudson route, you can effectively ignore weather. On the Mississippi route, you can -almost- ignore weather. Navigation is also not what sailors are used to, and you'll share it with some potentially scary commercial traffic. Combination of friendly small towns, history, pubs (not so much wineries, but a few), and Great American Wilderness. If you've ever read Mark Twain and wanted to join Huck & Jim on that raft, this is your route..... it's not as romantic as you'd think, but Mrs Steam and I did it and we liked it. To get to the Gulf, you also have a choice of going Tenn-Tom Waterway or continuing down the Mississippi past N'awlins etc etc.

Not recommending any specific route, just filling in details on how to choose.

FB- Doug

If i had to choose one of the three, I'd take the St. Lawrence every time. Cold isn't a problem, but I'm guessing the weather/lack of time definitely would be. The Mississippi is probably second best, especially because you'd rapidly get into warmer climates as you went south (plus there's sailing to be had in the gulf once you get there!)

On 12/15/2018 at 1:18 PM, Norse Horse said:

There are at least a couple of deviants who have undertaken coastal sea trips on the east coast but you would run out of summer at some point going out that way. The canals and Chicago put you on your way south sooner if that is the destination.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihulls/1000-miles-around-nova-scotia

I've seen this story before, I think, and was very impressed with the tale. CL16(wayfarers) are some pretty good boats, but you've gotta be a good sailor with balls to do that :P

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3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

http://www.microcruising.com/

This seems to be a good go-to resource.  Like kayak camp-cruising, with a smidgen more room...

Pretty impressive passages they've done in it too. Very cool!

3 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Farley Mowat "The Dog Who Won't Be" had a sub story about making it to the sea from the prairies.

This Metis lady tried it from Alberta. Vancouver couple sailing from Saskatchewan Glacier to Lake Winnipeg | CBC News

A circumnavigation of Lake Winnipeg has been done by kayak but no record of it by sailing dinghy on google.

The Nautical World at Lake Winnipeg

Farley Mowat is one of my favorite authors, I love the chapters about the "boat that wouldn't float". Lake Winnipeg would definitely be interesting, although perhaps a little difficult in the northern parts with ice possiblities. 

3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

“Oar and Sail: An Odyssey of the West Coast” (sub-20’ cruising on west coast of Canada)

http://creekstonepress.com/index.php/publications/article/oar_sail_an_odyssey_of_the_west_coast

 

2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Here’s a quick little vid —not very informative— by a guy who crossed the Atlantic (US to Europe) in his Cal 20 (another vid here discusses mods/restoration): https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCk0V0OFMUoyT4ypuq0sDx5w

A really good book for 20’ or sub-20’ long distance cruising is Robert Crawford’s “Blackfeathers: A Pocket Racer Sails the Singlehanded Transpac”.  Lots and lots of of details on prep, safety, nav, weather, etc.  Crawford’s the real deal!  https://www.amazon.ca/Black-Feathers-Pocket-Singlehanded-Transpac/dp/1440191964

I have Black Feathers! great book and as you say, Crawford definitely knows his stuff. Thank you for the video, too

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34 minutes ago, Vaeredil said:

 Lake Winnipeg would definitely be interesting, although perhaps a little difficult in the northern parts with ice possiblities.

there are other "possibilities" that would be less than interesting.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=1920&bih=919&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=1rEWXI_fC4K60PEPs-Og0AQ&q=lake+winnipeg+algae&oq=lake+winnipeg+algae&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i24l3.34327.35963..36689...0.0..0.85.340.5......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i8i30.uOLGQRyKZAk#imgrc=8i0uh8Ft5vX6MM:

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Well that's lovely. More googling indicates that it's super shallow, which contributes to both the algae and some really nasty conditions. 

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On 12/12/2018 at 4:43 PM, chester said:

i read your blog back in the day...it was awesome.

ditto

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The Most I've done is a couple of weeks in A Lysander 17 in mid winter, But reaching out from the four seasons sleeping bag in the morning to light the gas ring, which already had the full kettle on it, then watching for the frost to melt down the insides of the windows, as the kettle finally got hot, was not that enjoyable.

 

Oh a good read is Shane Actons book, Shrimpy: A Record Round-the-World Voyage in an Eighteen Foot Yacht.[5] He sailed round the world in a 18ft 4in Caprice Robert Tucker design, a lot of the time with girlfriend. It took him 8 years...

 

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Ignoring some epic small boat sailing above (though I truly am inspired), I saw this today and remembered the original post.   Living (not cruising or marina hopping) on a small boat doesn’t seem like a hardship compared to an efficiency apartment in Hong Kong.   https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/05/the-coffin-homes-of-hong-kong/526881/

 

BD77111A-8306-441A-AC27-B68B56B57EEF.jpeg

868D308C-183F-4CAC-B967-AE96F8CFFBA1.jpeg

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An Okanagan adventure with a canoe to row and a bike to portage with. http://www.nomader.ca/okanagan-valley-vernon-to-osoyoos/

He uses a sliding oarlock setup. I have been reading about oar adventures, mining for tips on rowing unconventional craft.

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On 12/26/2018 at 9:12 PM, Lark said:

Ignoring some epic small boat sailing above (though I truly am inspired), I saw this today and remembered the original post.   Living (not cruising or marina hopping) on a small boat doesn’t seem like a hardship compared to an efficiency apartment in Hong Kong.   https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/05/the-coffin-homes-of-hong-kong/526881/

 

BD77111A-8306-441A-AC27-B68B56B57EEF.jpeg

868D308C-183F-4CAC-B967-AE96F8CFFBA1.jpeg

Hmmhmm. That's healthy living,  right there. 

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Hong Kong - the perfection of Laissez-faire Capitalism.

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Can it be done? Of course. I lived in a pup tent like the one below for a summer in the Colorado High Country back in the day. It ain't for everybody - what are you comfortable with? I've seen a good number of youngish Euros, usually Frenchies, who've crossed the Atlantic to the Caribbean in 20-25' sailboats, some pretty raggedy. Admirable? Maybe. Bat-shit crazy? Possibly. If you have a minimalist frame of mind, and can wrap your head around usually not being able to go very fast, having to work tides and weather a little more carefully, etc., go for it. 

 

pup tent.jpg

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