StruanCampbell

Twisted cover

Recommended Posts

Hi

Anyone had a issue with the cover of a braided line seemingly twisted over its core?  As the line loads up (being used as a halyard) it twists so badly I can barely get it through the lower turning block.  The turning block at the top (it's an external halyard) is free to spin.

 Thanks 

Struan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

just regular braid on braid polyester sheetline.  I'm in South Africa so it's likely to be a brand you haven't heard of.

 

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, StruanCampbell said:

Hi

just regular braid on braid polyester sheetline.  I'm in South Africa so it's likely to be a brand you haven't heard of.

 

cheers

And probably don't want to :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, StruanCampbell said:

Hi

Anyone had a issue with the cover of a braided line seemingly twisted over its core?  As the line loads up (being used as a halyard) it twists so badly I can barely get it through the lower turning block.  The turning block at the top (it's an external halyard) is free to spin.

 Thanks 

Struan

Had that problem  on a SC52 mainsheet system,  where the double ended sheet (low stretch double braid) was led forward to the gooseneck, then under the boom and down to the travellor just forward of the wheel.  That's a lot of line passing through a lot of blocks, not all on swivel shackles.  As time passed the mainsheet would get so twisted it would hang up at the blocks under light load high line speed situations (gybing).

Two fixes possible. 

  • Remove the line and drag it for a while behind the boat underway with only one end attached to the boat, no weights. Don't do it in a harbor, it'll pick up oil, or some powerboat will cut it; during a delivery offshore is better.  Then wash the salt and critters off.  Not recommended because of logistics and it's just a weird thing to do to expensive line.
  • Slack the system and untwist the line by hand, working from the middle to the ends, several people working in concert is best. Most of the twist is in the middle of a double ended mainsheet; if the mainsheet is single ended most of the twist will be in the end attached to the boom, because the twist develops mostly when the mainsheet is ground in under high load when beating, twisting only a portion of the line.  This is laborious work; but it does build lower arm strength and you can do it with a beer nearby. We finally figured out if we did #2 as a regular maintenance punch list item, i.e., long before it became a problem, it's a much easier task.

That being said,  #2 won't work on a halyard unless you remove it and have a clean space (sail loft, lawn, etc.) to lay it out.  I'm surprised a halyard would develop the problem given that it's only going through a couple of blocks; it isn't continually being adjusted under high load.  Maybe look at the halyard's path to see WTF is causing it to twist.  Maybe an undersized block or, a shot in the dark --> did the boat originally have a wire main halyard and you're now running line through a block that has a wire sheave profile?  Bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d pull the halyard out of the mast and try to untwist it by hand. 

In the rare occasion I’ve seen a winch be the cause. Pull the halyard up with  it on a winch. A bit later lower it down with all the wraps off the winch. Puts the turns from the winch into the halyard 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or fix a shackle overhead, the more space above deck the better.  Pass one end of the line through and pull it through hand over hand.  Always works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it a line in which the core was inserted into the cover after it was braided or was the cover braided over the core? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all.  Some good ideas there.  It's an external halyard for a gaff rig pulling up the throat of the gaff.  I had this line and the gaff halyard led through a double turning block below the jammers, rather than 2 singles. That may have added to the hassle. I  Have since replaced the blocks.

 

but in any event I decided to  remove the line and take it back to the shop. you can actually see the cover spiralling as you look down its length.  They are sending it back to the supplier for his opinion.  If it's a construction flaw I'll let you know.  For now, a new line has been installed.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've bought a couple of boats with twisted double braid halyards due to sticky swivel shackles. Once the twist gets too bad and has been there too long, I've never successfully found a way to reverse it. Replacement of the halyard and shackle was the only way to cure it. The first boat it took me months of frustration and a dozen different failed ideas before I gave up. The second time I gave it two tries and threw in the towel. Core dependent line seems to be much less susceptible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, StruanCampbell said:

Thanks all.  Some good ideas there.  It's an external halyard for a gaff rig pulling up the throat of the gaff.  I had this line and the gaff halyard led through a double turning block below the jammers, rather than 2 singles. That may have added to the hassle. I  Have since replaced the blocks.

 

but in any event I decided to  remove the line and take it back to the shop. you can actually see the cover spiralling as you look down its length.  They are sending it back to the supplier for his opinion.  If it's a construction flaw I'll let you know.  For now, a new line has been installed.

cheers

If there is uneven load on the two lines leading through the double turning block ( am picturing a double attached to a padeye) this is definitely a contributor to your issue. When only one line is loaded through a double the block starts to twist and the line won't run cleanly on the sheave. A better solution is two block or a fiddle block

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ctutmark and Istream - a combo of your issues.  the uneven load on the double block had twisted the cover beyond useability.  So the block is gone (replaced with singles) and the line has been replaced.  Sailed yesterday and could have pulled it up with a beer in my hand!

thanks for all the advice!

cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had that problem on a mini 650 (I'm not sure what the English name of the lines is, they are the ones that position the bowsprit sideways).

At first I thought the problem was that the eye splices were not correctly done, thus making the core strands work unevenly (the "bumps" you could feel inside the rope were evenly distributed inside), then I thought maybe it was the core turning inside the cover. Not really sure what the cause was, I ended up replacing them.

The line did not go through any block, just a fairlead and a clutch.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/13/2018 at 12:19 AM, StruanCampbell said:

Hi

Anyone had a issue with the cover of a braided line seemingly twisted over its core?  As the line loads up (being used as a halyard) it twists so badly I can barely get it through the lower turning block.  The turning block at the top (it's an external halyard) is free to spin.

 Thanks 

Struan

Really man? You are going to the forum to ask about rope? You are dead to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha ha ha mark. Should have just asked you direct.  If I told you the type of boat I would be past dead for you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StruanCampbell said:

Ha ha ha mark. Should have just asked you direct.  If I told you the type of boat I would be past dead for you

I will let it slide this time but I am addressing Christmas cards tonight and you just got dropped. Chris (ctutmark) is good value and seems to have nailed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2018 at 1:31 AM, markvannote said:

Really man? You are going to the forum to ask about rope? You are dead to me.

Ouch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These would be called "guys" and running through a fairlead or being used on a winch can cause the twist. It is normal as rope is taken on/off a winch.

 

HW
 

On 12/19/2018 at 9:21 PM, chuso007 said:

I've had that problem on a mini 650 (I'm not sure what the English name of the lines is, they are the ones that position the bowsprit sideways).

At first I thought the problem was that the eye splices were not correctly done, thus making the core strands work unevenly (the "bumps" you could feel inside the rope were evenly distributed inside), then I thought maybe it was the core turning inside the cover. Not really sure what the cause was, I ended up replacing them.

The line did not go through any block, just a fairlead and a clutch.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

aren't they outfuckers?

Certainly could be! But could be confused with the outfucker on the jib lead ;)

 

HW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now