dg_sailingfan

AC 36: INEOS TEAM UK

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Looks wider and higher at the stern.

Like the AM hull.  The NZ hull looks very similar to the new Hugo Boss hull earlier in this thread.  That is interesting, because the Hugo is designed to heel at top speed, whereas the AC75 will be foiling/flying.

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2 hours ago, hoom said:

Rewatched this & there's no sign they've snuck in a demi-hull or whatever you want to call it like on TNZ, infact you can see the smooth curve of the cradle in part of it since the camera is below & the shrink-wrap doesn't actually cover the whole bottom.

I have not seen that before.. when did this come online!?

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Looks wider and higher at the stern.

I wonder in the overall scheme of speed how important will the subtle differences between the hulls be? Early to foil is important. But I think the foils and balance of the boats will be crucial.

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57 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I have not seen that before.. when did this come online!?

@NeedAClew posted it a couple of pages back on 12th August

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20 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Sense and all current MP's are mutually exclusive from what I can see:rolleyes:

9A88774B-94E8-4ABE-8E4E-06BE3CB80F80.thumb.jpeg.0ab22271b0a7098ff05052a23ecab050.jpeg

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On 9/6/2019 at 9:24 AM, hoom said:

Rewatched this & there's no sign they've snuck in a demi-hull or whatever you want to call it like on TNZ, infact you can see the smooth curve of the cradle in part of it since the camera is below & the shrink-wrap doesn't actually cover the whole bottom.

Remember when we got photos of the AM hull all shrink wrapped et all it looked rather different in the spy shots. Then again I partially agree with you although the stern is unusually boxy and looked to be hiding more circular lines. 

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5 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

Remember when we got photos of the AM hull all shrink wrapped et all it looked rather different in the spy shots. Then again I partially agree with you although the stern is unusually boxy and looked to be hiding more circular lines. 

We haven’t seen any photos of AM shrink wrapped. Have we?

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Just now, Ex-yachtie said:

We haven’t seen any photos of AM shrink wrapped. Have we?

I swear there’s two or three somewhere in the AM thread unless I’m mistaken. 

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

We haven’t seen any photos of AM shrink wrapped. Have we?

August 17

 

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28 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

 Apparently Jono Macbeth is on the job market.

Yes, that came up in TE’s Sailing Illustrated yesterday too. I bet Jono knows a lot about the Fracker plans..

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3 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

Remember when we got photos of the AM hull all shrink wrapped et all it looked rather different in the spy shots. Then again I partially agree with you although the stern is unusually boxy and looked to be hiding more circular lines. 

We saw it has a similarly boxy flat stern & I did highlight that it looked like they're doing something weird in the bow

29N75vO.png

 

Edit: huh, watching that again they did even do an upskirt of the bow lol

FMW5v6W.png

 

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7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, that came up in TE’s Sailing Illustrated yesterday too. I bet Jono knows a lot about the Fracker plans..

Yes indeed. Quite interesting running thru their design team and suppliers/partners plus T5 development comments over 12 months of testing. One of the many issues around these boats is balance and hundreds of years ago a coin in our 470 mast step helped the mast cantilever better with respect to the mid leech to assist balance under certain conditions and I believe they've done some work here - but somewhat more sophisticated. There could be a lot of interesting additive engineering under the deck.

Below. Also from Carringtons and doing OK in flat water.

HUgo Boss.jpg

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Americans in water, Kiwis look to be launching today... quiet in INEOS and Prada land. 

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Quote

AC36: Sir Ben Ainslie's INEOS Team UK preparing to splash their new AC75; but apparently not until dockside dredging is finished over the next 10 days? First was ETNZ's launch last Friday; NYYC's American Magic should be next — this week.

They've only just realised this??:P

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20 minutes ago, Indio said:

They've only just realised this??:P

There was a link somewhere.  They had to get approval to do the dredging.

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16 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

There was a link somewhere.  They had to get approval to do the dredging.

Yep, some weeks ago. You wouldn't want to dredge too early in that place. Might well be a different kettle of fish to the others.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

Yep, some weeks ago. You wouldn't want to dredge too early in that place. Might well be a different kettle of fish to the others.

Ahh, thanks. Can't wait to see what Nick Holroyd and Co. have come up with. Team Ineos is the one team that worries me: great leader, brilliant design team, and a very healthy and plentiful war chest..

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On 9/8/2019 at 5:27 PM, chesirecat said:

Below. Also from Carringtons and doing OK in flat water.

Hugo Boss is definitely build by Carrington Boats, but are you sure the Ineos AC75 was build by them?

It might have been next door to them, and Jason may have been involved in it, but I would expect Ineos/Ainslie to have organised their own built operaration. Also Jason Carrington is a pretty modest person who would rather concentrate on one (very complicated) project, methinks.

 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Ahh, thanks. Can't wait to see what Nick Holroyd and Co. have come up with. Team Ineos is the one team that worries me: great leader, brilliant design team, and a very healthy and plentiful war chest..

They were very well funded in Bermuda. Started way off the pace and caught up quickly, but ultimately ran out of time. Hopefully there’s been a cultural shift otherwise they might be playing the same catch-up game...

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Hilarious from Ehman to say MacBeth is on the Job Market. Totally unwarranted & unproven. Shut your mouth Tom and don't report BOGUS!

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44 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Hilarious from Ehman to say MacBeth is on the Job Market. Totally unwarranted & unproven. Shut your mouth Tom and don't report BOGUS!

Will you apologize if he is right?

TFE has about a 90% accuracy rate on exclusives...

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16 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Why would MacBeth leave the Team? There is no reason to do so!

It wasn't his choice.....he's gone

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Will you apologize if he is right?

TFE has about a 90% accuracy rate on exclusives...

It never apologises or shuts up, you have to ignore it.

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Why would MacBeth leave the Team? There is no reason to do so!

You’re assuming it was his choice. 

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12 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

You’re assuming it was his choice. 

Doesn't matter if it was his choice or the Team's Choice. Why did they fire him if so? Do you think it's a coincidence this happened 10 Days before their apparent AC 75 Launch.

Maybe he breached a contract by giving ETNZ too much Information. If so he only has to blame himself should that be the case.

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Maybe Jeff Bezos is paying him $100M to fix up the S+S boat to piss off NY people like DJT. 

Just kidding. First DG says the guy is not leaving, now DG says he's a spy. A bad spy that got caught. Next?

Thought I'd toss in a scrap of tinfoil ...

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2 hours ago, freddy said:

It wasn't his choice.....he's gone

How things change....

 

https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/americas-cup/ben-ainslie-why-jono-macbeth-is-crucial-to-americas-cup-bid--32015

 

I was looking for someone with strength of character, a sailing team manager with integrity, someone to help lead. Jono is that person — as well as a talented, experienced sailor and campaigner to boot.

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Will you apologize if he is right?

TFE has about a 90% accuracy rate on exclusives...

bated breath...

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Hilarious from Ehman to say MacBeth is on the Job Market. Totally unwarranted & unproven. Shut your mouth Tom and don't report BOGUS!

Apologize, cunt.

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26 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Doesn't matter if it was his choice or the Team's Choice. Why did they fire him if so? Do you think it's a coincidence this happened 10 Days before their apparent AC 75 Launch.

Maybe he breached a contract by giving ETNZ too much Information. If so he only has to blame himself should that be the case.

Oh sorry. It’s just that that’s not what you said. 

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26 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Maybe he breached a contract by giving ETNZ too much Information. If so he only has to blame himself should that be the case.

I met Jono few times in the past years. I cannot believe he is a spy.

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34 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Doesn't matter if it was his choice or the Team's Choice. Why did they fire him if so? Do you think it's a coincidence this happened 10 Days before their apparent AC 75 Launch.

Maybe he breached a contract by giving ETNZ too much Information. If so he only has to blame himself should that be the case.

Or maybe he bonked Lady Ainsley....about as relevant as your nut-case suggestion.

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25 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

WOW, so MacBeth indeed is gone. No longer on the Sailing Team Roster :o

http://www.ineosteamuk.com/en/team.html#sailing

You’re such an idiot. Minutes ago you called the news bogus despite the fact that going to the team’s own website would tell you that it wasn’t. 

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Just now, Ex-yachtie said:

You’re such an idiot. Minutes ago you called the news bogus despite the fact that going to the team’s own website would tell you that it wasn’t. 

He's 12 years old - gotta make allowances, you know:P

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Doesn't matter if it was his choice or the Team's Choice. Why did they fire him if so? Do you think it's a coincidence this happened 10 Days before their apparent AC 75 Launch.

Maybe he breached a contract by giving ETNZ too much Information. If so he only has to blame himself should that be the case.

yes I agree.... let's just make up some random accusation that has no basis in reality, and then let's convict him of it and tell him he deserves it

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11 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

You’re such an idiot. Minutes ago you called the news bogus despite the fact that going to the team’s own website would tell you that it wasn’t. 

You're idiot cuz you are from NZL!

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56 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

I met Jono few times in the past years. I cannot believe he is a spy.

Why else would they fire him? It doesn't make sense.

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12 hours ago, Indio said:

Ahh, thanks. Can't wait to see what Nick Holroyd and Co. have come up with. Team Ineos is the one team that worries me: great leader, brilliant design team, and a very healthy and plentiful war chest..

Yes. Reading tea leave's it could be quite wide aft with hard rails and fine forward. One of the V60 people observed this.  These things are unstable slow with high sail sideload and with little forward motion the boat will role right in - ie 49ers role right over in these situations and its a serious training issue. I also note they have some good partners re 3D additive printing with exotic alloys, including titanium, leading to some engineering possibilities. They might even have twin rudders as this was critical to stability (downforce)  in the cats and wide aft sections would facilitate this.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Doesn't matter if it was his choice or the Team's Choice. Why did they fire him if so? Do you think it's a coincidence this happened 10 Days before their apparent AC 75 Launch.

Maybe he breached a contract by giving ETNZ too much Information. If so he only has to blame himself should that be the case.

Is that an accusation?? It sure sounds like it. Was he already doing this? It’s sounds as if you’re saying that  

You might want to be careful about what say on a public forum!!  Just ask the Ed, he ended up slapped with a law suit! 

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3 hours ago, barfy said:

It never apologises or shuts up, you have to ignore it.

But every now and again it’s fun to watch him twists in knots, his accusation is interesting. 

Anybody know if Macbeth follows anything in this little cesspool?? 

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Titanium can be used in hydraulic actuators, pumps, and fittings. Not sure if Rule 22.14 prohibits other uses.

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19 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

They might even have twin rudders as this was critical to stability (downforce)  in the cats and wide aft sections would facilitate this.

 

Sigh. RTFR

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Or maybe he bonked Lady Ainsley....about as relevant as your nut-case suggestion.

It’s more believable.....it’s happened before, as it does in every walk of life. 

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1 minute ago, Ex-yachtie said:

First picture of Team INEOS?

EE4D892D-D0C2-44D1-8F62-CDD34C6DF7BB.jpeg

WTF is that??

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

WTF is that??

Ro Ro ship in Georgia, US. Rolled over a day or so ago. Theirs a thread in GA, but it means you’ll have to venture out of here though! :lol:

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

Ro Ro ship in Georgia, US. Rolled over a day or so ago. Theirs a thread in GA, but it means you’ll have to venture out of here though! :lol:

Oh I know -  agoraphobia is a bitch :D.

Thanks...

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1 hour ago, mad said:

You fucking idiot?

That needed no question mark.  I've only been reading the AC forum for five minutes and I already figured it out.

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8 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

That needed no question mark.  I've only been reading the AC forum for five minutes and I already figured it out.

Apologies, that’s a typo, was supposed to be!!, iPad keyboards! :P

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Looking at that thing it's surprising it didn't roll over the day they launched it, one ugly looking boat either way up.

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3 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

Sigh. RTFR

Glen Ashbey talked in a launch interview about staying with a single rudder because of drag.

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50 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Glen Ashbey talked in a launch interview about staying with a single rudder because of drag.

Safety may have been a factor as well.

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6 minutes ago, Southern Cross said:

Rule  permits only one rudder :

A factor in the rule I mean. Not sure but I think it was mentioned somewhere. Franck was pretty lucky as were a few other very talented folk. Central rudder should keep a mob clear they reckon.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

Glen Ashbey talked in a launch interview about staying with a single rudder because of drag.

He was talking about decisions while writing the rule not about choices in designing the Dolphin.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

Glen Ashbey talked in a launch interview about staying with a single rudder because of drag.

One of the drag reasons for going with a single rudder may have been to try to offset how much drag those truly gigantic main foil arms and wings will produce. But even those rudders will produce a lot of drag, at that size.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Safety may have been a factor as well.

Maybe it's both, two halves of a human hanging by a shred of wetsuit does create significant drag...

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48 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

One of the drag reasons for going with a single rudder may have been to try to offset how much drag those truly gigantic main foil arms and wings will produce. But even those rudders will produce a lot of drag, at that size.

I'd put money those huge foil arms are still way less windage than the cross beams, tramp and other associated parts on a catamaran.  In fact outside of the twin skin main these boats look very slippery!  Even the very slippery Oracle AC72 had a pretty large frontal area!!

image.png.e49742659718473c3f05d92f8845e26d.png

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

I'd put money those huge foil arms are still way less windage than the cross beams, tramp and other associated parts on a catamaran.  In fact outside of the twin skin main these boats look very slippery!  Even the very slippery Oracle AC72 had a pretty large frontal area!!

image.png.e49742659718473c3f05d92f8845e26d.png

You forgot Jimmy hiking into the slipstream with a head so big it would have it's own weather system following behind, like cap clouds. B)

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

I'd put money those huge foil arms are still way less windage than the cross beams, tramp and other associated parts on a catamaran.  In fact outside of the twin skin main these boats look very slippery!  Even the very slippery Oracle AC72 had a pretty large frontal area!!

image.png.e49742659718473c3f05d92f8845e26d.png

If they're shaped right, the windward foil arm should be able to provide a small amount of downforce and not just be some windage...

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On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:36 PM, Herfy said:

Like the AM hull.  The NZ hull looks very similar to the new Hugo Boss hull earlier in this thread.  That is interesting, because the Hugo is designed to heel at top speed, whereas the AC75 will be foiling/flying.

Keep in mind that one type of boat may be designed to heel to leeward. The other might be designed to heel to windward...

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8 hours ago, mad said:

But every now and again it’s fun to watch him twists in knots, his accusation is interesting. 

Anybody know if Macbeth follows anything in this little cesspool?? 

Ben Ainslie: Why Jono Macbeth is crucial to America’s Cup bid

10 NOVEMBER 2016 BY SIR BEN AINSLIE

Jono Macbeth was the first sailor I hired at Land Rover BAR. It was because of the history we’d had sailing together with Team New Zealand for the 32nd America’s Cup back in 2007, and then with Oracle Team USA for the 34th Cup. I was looking for someone with strength of character, a sailing team manager with integrity, someone to help lead. Jono is that person — as well as a talented, experienced sailor and campaigner to boot.
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5 minutes ago, Indio said:

Ben Ainslie: Why Jono Macbeth is crucial to America’s Cup bid

10 NOVEMBER 2016 BY SIR BEN AINSLIE

Jono Macbeth was the first sailor I hired at Land Rover BAR. It was because of the history we’d had sailing together with Team New Zealand for the 32nd America’s Cup back in 2007, and then with Oracle Team USA for the 34th Cup. I was looking for someone with strength of character, a sailing team manager with integrity, someone to help lead. Jono is that person — as well as a talented, experienced sailor and campaigner to boot.

That's gone well...

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7 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

One of the drag reasons for going with a single rudder may have been to try to offset how much drag those truly gigantic main foil arms and wings will produce. But even those rudders will produce a lot of drag, at that size.

When you think the 50's are now looking at some 800kg of downforce then this wording becomes a trifle significant.

Here's the first part of rudder rule. Interestingly the term is "A rudder" not "thou shalt be only one rudder"

15 Rudder

15.1 A rudder must be a single linear component, constructed only from: (a) one rudder upper that must penetrate the hull; attached to (b) one rudder lower that must not penetrate the hull.

AC75 rule

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2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Interestingly the term is "A rudder" not "thou shalt be only one rudder"

Teams can have as many rudders as they like. They can only attach one of them to the boat at a time.

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16 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Why else would they fire him? It doesn't make sense.

Nothing makes sense to you, you pea-brained fuckwit.

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18 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

First picture of Team INEOS?

EE4D892D-D0C2-44D1-8F62-CDD34C6DF7BB.jpeg

More like Stars+Stripes...

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3 hours ago, Brutal said:

More like Stars+Stripes...

Now I know what RO-RO means - Roll on Roll over

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5 minutes ago, Indio said:

Now I know what RO-RO means - Roll on Roll over

That one's not a RO-RO, it's a RUT-ROH...

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17 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Ineos has already lost the Cup given that they're so late in launching.

Probably worth telling that to ETNZ in 2017...

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11 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Ineos has already lost the Cup given that they're so late in launching.

ETNZ ac35

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14 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Ineos has already lost the Cup given that they're so late in launching.

With the same logic you  could say ETNZ have already lost the Cup to AM - the first ones to actually SAIL their new boat!

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16 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Ineos has already lost the Cup given that they're so late in launching.

STFU

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What's up with their launch delayed due to dredging?!  Surely they knew what the boat's draft would be within a week of the rules being published.  I guess that nobody thought to walk out to the dock and drop a lead line over anytime in the last year or so...  Seams like a big 'Duh' moment to me...

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38 minutes ago, pwormwood said:

What's up with their launch delayed due to dredging?!  Surely they knew what the boat's draft would be within a week of the rules being published.  I guess that nobody thought to walk out to the dock and drop a lead line over anytime in the last year or so...  Seams like a big 'Duh' moment to me...

The harbour is a naval port, you cannot start dredge operations with permission of QHM.  Do that at your peril! 

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56 minutes ago, pwormwood said:

What's up with their launch delayed due to dredging?!  Surely they knew what the boat's draft would be within a week of the rules being published.  I guess that nobody thought to walk out to the dock and drop a lead line over anytime in the last year or so...  Seams like a big 'Duh' moment to me...

Also, can't they just tow it out like the NZ boat with both foils out to the sides into deeper water?  Not an ultimate solution, but it could get them out on the water.

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18 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Also, can't they just tow it out like the NZ boat with both foils out to the sides into deeper water?  Not an ultimate solution, but it could get them out on the water.

Maybe they haven’t got their shit together, their boat’s in bits, there’s infighting and building frustration?

MAYBE they’ve strung up their logistics team and given them 50 lashes for failing to identify this project risk which has essentially put them back a week so far?

Or maybe they’re just not ready yet and never wanted to be?

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I would be stunned if a $200 million AC campaign is delayed due to dredging needs.  

 

If that truly is the case, that’s not a good sign.

 

If I was the financier of INEOS, I would be highly shittin.  

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But isn't it a harbor? Where is their base, anyway? No boats or ships go there now? No channels? There's  a ferry right across. 

Rule fig. 13.1 says max draft 5000mm with foil down. Can't they tow or drag it out?

 

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